How long is Australia?

Australia spans 3 time zones. That kind of makes it big. Around 4000 miles long.
However, people drive the length of it in 35-41 hours, or fly the length of it in 5 hours.

I don't care if you say the map is just a place holder or whatever, while it helps to see it on the map, this isn't about the map.
Australia spans 3 time zones. So we know it's big. It takes the sun ~3 hours to go from start to finish on Australia.

And yet, numerous routine flights from one end to the other are in the 5 hour range, which means those flights are all flying faster than the speed of sound.
All those jets that aren't designed to fly at the speed of sound are playing it fast and furious.
And all those cars are going a hundred miles an hour.

As I said, you can't draw Australia smaller on the flat map, or it won't span 3 time zones anymore.
And please don't say Australia isn't there, because if it wasn't them, some other country would be there. And it'd still be 3 time zones long (or longer) and planes and cars would be breaking land world land speed records.
And please don't just invert the map to put Alaska around the edge and Antarctic in the center, the same geometry problem exists.

You'd have to either move Australia north of the equator, or agree that the earth isn't flat.

What is the solution to this  dilemma? 

Australia spans 3 time zones. That kind of makes it big. Around 4000 miles long.

The North pole spans 24 time zones.  It must be HUGE?

Australia spans 3 time zones. That kind of makes it big. Around 4000 miles long.
However, people drive the length of it in 35-41 hours, or fly the length of it in 5 hours.

I don't care if you say the map is just a place holder or whatever, while it helps to see it on the map, this isn't about the map.
Australia spans 3 time zones. So we know it's big. It takes the sun ~3 hours to go from start to finish on Australia.

And yet, numerous routine flights from one end to the other are in the 5 hour range, which means those flights are all flying faster than the speed of sound.
All those jets that aren't designed to fly at the speed of sound are playing it fast and furious.
And all those cars are going a hundred miles an hour.

As I said, you can't draw Australia smaller on the flat map, or it won't span 3 time zones anymore.
And please don't say Australia isn't there, because if it wasn't them, some other country would be there. And it'd still be 3 time zones long (or longer) and planes and cars would be breaking land world land speed records.
And please don't just invert the map to put Alaska around the edge and Antarctic in the center, the same geometry problem exists.

You'd have to either move Australia north of the equator, or agree that the earth isn't flat.

What is the solution to this  dilemma?

The the widest part of Australia is from Steep Point to Byron Bay and is 3985 km.
This flight Perth to Brisbane, in less than 1 hour ago, flew a claimed 3745 km in 4 hr 18 min.

Quote from: Tom Foolery on March 12, 2019, 08:52:40 PM

Australia spans 3 time zones. That kind of makes it big. Around 4000 miles long.

The North pole spans 24 time zones.  It must be HUGE?

The north pole also isn't south of the equator. The spokes come very close at the center of the wheel.

Here's to hoping someone comes up with a real answer.

Quote from: Bullwinkle on March 12, 2019, 09:25:58 PM

Quote from: Tom Foolery on March 12, 2019, 08:52:40 PM

Australia spans 3 time zones. That kind of makes it big. Around 4000 miles long.

The North pole spans 24 time zones.  It must be HUGE?

The north pole also isn't south of the equator. The spokes come very close at the center of the wheel.

Here's to hoping someone comes up with a real answer.

You claim 3 time zones equals 4000 miles. 

The the widest part of Australia is from Steep Point to Byron Bay and is 3985 km.
This flight Perth to Brisbane, in less than 1 hour ago, flew a claimed 3745 km in 4 hr 18 min.

For those Americans among us, 3985 km = 2476 miles, and 3745 km = 2327 miles.

So if Australia is only 2476 miles long, and yet it covers 3 timezones, it either has to be north of the equator or the earth isn't flat.

Say, rabinoz, would you mind terribly if we moved your continent from down under to up above the equator? You're kind of a problem for us down there. Did you know that?
You can bring Tazmania with you if you like, I hear they have some good gold mines there.


Bullwinkle: I actually didn't claim that 3 timezones was 4000 miles at all latitudes. I claimed it only for the latitude at which Australia currently resides. Can't you see that on a flat earth the distance between timezones goes up linearly with the distance from the center?

Bullwinkle: I actually didn't claim that 3 timezones was 4000 miles at all latitudes.

You said 3 time zones is around 4000 miles.

Am I to assume everything you write actually means something else?

Quote from: rabinoz on March 12, 2019, 09:43:51 PM

The the widest part of Australia is from Steep Point to Byron Bay and is 3985 km.
This flight Perth to Brisbane, in less than 1 hour ago, flew a claimed 3745 km in 4 hr 18 min.

For those Americans among us, 3985 km = 2476 miles, and 3745 km = 2327 miles.

So if Australia is only 2476 miles long, and yet it covers 3 timezones, it either has to be north of the equator or the earth isn't flat.

Say, rabinoz, would you mind terribly if we moved your continent from down under to up above the equator? You're kind of a problem for us down there. Did you know that?

Nope ! We like it down where nobody believes we're real!

Even though I've been, I can't be sure.
Today, I think it's actually in the Southern United States. Western Texas and Nevada, and maybe a bit of Utah

(kangaroos)

So long as nobody believes we exist nobody bothers us.
But I have a compromise: You keep your Northern Hemiplane and I'll live on my Southern Hemisphere!

Does that help? Sorry about Australia being around the other side but that's a problem with globes.

You can bring Tazmania Tasmania with you if you like, I hear they have some good gold mines there.

You can have Tasmania. Those gold mines are pretty much worked out and we'll not mention the two-headed Taswegians .

Quote from: Tom Foolery on March 12, 2019, 10:59:20 PM

Quote from: Bullwinkle on March 12, 2019, 09:25:58 PM

Quote from: Tom Foolery on March 12, 2019, 08:52:40 PM

Australia spans 3 time zones. That kind of makes it big. Around 4000 miles long.

The North pole spans 24 time zones.  It must be HUGE?

The north pole also isn't south of the equator. The spokes come very close at the center of the wheel.

Here's to hoping someone comes up with a real answer.

You claim 3 time zones equals 4000 miles.

You're leaving out the rest of my quote.
I'm claiming that 3 timezones equals 4000 miles where Australia is. 

But if this is how flat eathers think I guess I know how they arrived at their position.

Can you honestly not see that on a flat disk the distance of a timezone is dependent on the distance from the center?

You might as well go ahead and make an absurd horrendously ridiculous flat earth response,  because for me to continue to engage such bankrupt logic would be for me to troll, so I'm bowing out of this debate with you on this topic and giving you the last word.

Anyone else who has a better answer to this paradox of Australia, please help out the respectable flat earthers among us.

So long as nobody believes we exist nobody bothers us.
But I have a compromise: You keep your Northern Hemiplane and I'll live on my Southern Hemisphere!

Does that help? Sorry about Australia being around the other side but that's a problem with globes.

 
I laughed so hard when I saw that I couldn't manage a reply till hours later!

But I'm liking your idea.

In fact your model is so perfect I built a sturdy stand for it.

Granted, only the bottom half of the globe is rotating, the top flat half isn't rotating, but it will if someone turns on that switch in the right top corner of the stand.

I saw a cloud today that looked sort of like this, including the support system, so I'm pretty sure this is exactly how the earth is.



OK Sorry guys. But seriously, the size of Australia -- or all countries at 25 "degrees" outside the equator -- is a huge problem for flat earth.
And don't tell me that flipping N for S in a PHEW map solves anything. It's still a flat map and it has the same impossible solar geometric paradox.
And besides, look at the size of Russia on that map. Ugh.

Thanks!

OK Sorry guys. But seriously, the size of Australia -- or all countries at 25 "degrees" outside the equator -- is a huge problem for flat earth.
Thanks!

Yes it is but when problems like this arise a typical answer is often, " But that's not the official map" or
some will raise the possibility of a "Bipolar Map" or even a "Dual Earth Theory":But these only raise other serious issues.

Umm, so on that bipolar, where does the sun go every day? literally over the tops of the poles?
Or on some goofy figure 8 where it's sunny twice a day between the poles?

And dual earth, hmm. I think there are still distortion issues.
If we're going to have two earths, maybe we could have three, or four, or how about a Multifaceted-Spheroid?


I think we will find that the closer our earths approximate the globe, the less stretch error we will have.

As to Sandokahn's true flat map, umm, if I'm not mistaken, Australia is rather long there too. I'm so glad Australians like to drive a hundred miles an hour (160km/h) and fly supersonic all the time!
Because that's the only way they can get from one end of Australia to the other on most of these maps.

And I don't even want to try to bust up my brain trying to figure out how you get from one half of the dual earth to the other

Like you said, they only make things harder on themselves trying to solve problems.

And I don't even want to try to bust up my brain trying to figure out how you get from one half of the dual earth to the other

I believe it involves teleportation.  Best ask Jane - it was her sock puppet that wrote it.

Quote from: Tom Foolery on March 13, 2019, 11:03:17 PM

OK Sorry guys. But seriously, the size of Australia -- or all countries at 25 "degrees" outside the equator -- is a huge problem for flat earth.
Thanks!

Yes it is but when problems like this arise a typical answer is often, " But that's not the official map" or
some will raise the possibility of a "Bipolar Map" or even a "Dual Earth Theory":

FE Bipolar Map Promoted by Tom Bishop

DET Northern Hemiplane Promoted by

DET Southern Hemiplane JRoweskeptic

Sandokhan's "True" Flat Earth Map

But these only raise other serious issues.

e

I would like to raise another issue . ,:

I have been looking at the maps of Tom BIshop ,  JRoweskeptic and Sandokhan on rabinoz' post.
Using any of those maps,. how would you get from San Diego , California in the United States of America  to Yokosuka,  Kanagawa
Prefecture in Japan by sea ?

I have made two such trips from San Diego and one from San Francisco so I know how we did it using maps made from projections from the Globe covering small areas to minimize distortion. Every ship has a Chart Room with numerous of these Oceanic Sectional Charts used in navigation . We used those and always managed to navigate from one place to another without any difficulty .

But I'm not clear how you would do it using those maps ?

Umm, so on that bipolar, where does the sun go every day? literally over the tops of the poles?
Or on some goofy figure 8 where it's sunny twice a day between the poles?

During the northern summer it circles the north pole.
During the southern summer it circles the south pole.

And I don't even want to try to bust up my brain trying to figure out how you get from one half of the dual earth to the other

Well, while there is a massive amount of aether blowing out the gaps in the discs at the equator, there is absolutely no aether there which means there is literally no distance and thus when you go to walk over the gap you end up on the other side, but not just any point, you specifically end up at a point on the exact opposite side (flipping around twice in the process), even though the 0 space there should make the equator like a pole.

Don't worry, it makes no sense at all.

Quote from: rabinoz on March 14, 2019, 12:06:57 AM

But these only raise other serious issues.

e

I would like to raise another issue . ,:

I have been looking at the maps of Tom Bishop ,  JRoweskeptic and Sandokhan on rabinoz' post.
Using any of those maps,. how would you get from San Diego , California in the United States of America  to Yokosuka,  Kanagawa
Prefecture in Japan by sea ?

Probably aetheric transport mediated by fairies but Tom would ask "How do you know that you didn't simply follow the latitude lines around over the top of the map to Japan?"

FE Bipolar Map, Promoted by Tom Bishop
But try flying from Brisbane, Australia, to Hawaii as many do now or Hawaii to Fiji as Kingsford Smith did in 1928 - a link to his chart is in:
Flat Earth General / Re: Flat Earth "Leader" Gets His Best 5 Points Ruined!! « Message by rabinoz on October 10, 2018, 01:49:18 PM ».

All Tom Bishop's and Sandokhan's maps do is spread the "Southern Hemiplane problem" over the whole earth where it affects more people.

And JRoweskeptic's (JRowe on TFES) concentrate it at the near and at the equator and requires magic (he calls it aether ) to be transported across the equator.

I have made two such trips from San Diego and one from San Francisco so I know how we did it using maps made from projections from the Globe covering small areas to minimize distortion. Every ship has a Chart Room with numerous of these Oceanic Sectional Charts used in navigation. We used those and always managed to navigate from one place to another without any difficulty.

But I'm not clear how you would do it using those maps ?

Nobody is but when the "southern flights enigma" is raised Tom Bishop is likely to pop up and say, "But I support the BiPolar map" which diverts attention but still makes for impractical flights.

Am I getting the feeling here that it's northwards of Pure Magic, maybe even a shell game?

During the northern summer it circles the north pole.
During the southern summer it circles the south pole.

Wow, OK. so, doesn't that create a sudden huge change in day length  for significant regions of the earth?

And I think the apparent position of the sun is all messed up too.

Of course I don't know where the exact claimed path of the sun falls.

But this looks pretty dubious to me.

And, since I might as well keep on topic, Australia is all distorted as well, so my original question of how long it is still stands.

And I guess there are two solar equators? On the day of the equinox only passes over the equator in one spot, and the rest of the equator never actually has the sun directly overhead on the equinox because it jumps either from the north or the south half?

Quote from: Googleotomy on March 14, 2019, 01:06:31 PM

Quote from: rabinoz on March 14, 2019, 12:06:57 AM

But these only raise other serious issues.

e

I would like to raise another issue . ,:

I have been looking at the maps of Tom Bishop ,  JRoweskeptic and Sandokhan on rabinoz' post.
Using any of those maps,. how would you get from San Diego , California in the United States of America  to Yokosuka,  Kanagawa
Prefecture in Japan by sea ?

Probably aetheric transport mediated by fairies but Tom would ask "How do you know that you didn't simply follow the latitude lines around over the top of the map to Japan?"

FE Bipolar Map, Promoted by Tom Bishop
But try flying from Brisbane, Australia, to Hawaii as many do now or Hawaii to Fiji as Kingsford Smith did in 1928 - a link to his chart is in:
Flat Earth General / Re: Flat Earth "Leader" Gets His Best 5 Points Ruined!! « Message by rabinoz on October 10, 2018, 01:49:18 PM ».

All Tom Bishop's and Sandokhan's maps do is spread the "Southern Hemiplane problem" over the whole earth where it affects more people.

And JRoweskeptic's (JRowe on TFES) concentrate it at the near and at the equator and requires magic (he calls it aether ) to be transported across the equator.

Quote from: Googleotomy

I have made two such trips from San Diego and one from San Francisco so I know how we did it using maps made from projections from the Globe covering small areas to minimize distortion. Every ship has a Chart Room with numerous of these Oceanic Sectional Charts used in navigation. We used those and always managed to navigate from one place to another without any difficulty.

But I'm not clear how you would do it using those maps ?

Nobody is but when the "southern flights enigma" is raised Tom Bishop is likely to pop up and say, "But I support the BiPolar map" which diverts attention but still makes for impractical flights.

Using those maps, it would appear that to sail from California to Japan , you would go past Alaska, the North Pole and Siberia to get there. LOL.

'' But don't worry, it makes no sense at all.''

Using those maps, it would appear that to sail from California to Japan, you would go past Alaska, the North Pole and Siberia to get there. LOL.

''But don't worry, it makes no sense at all.''

It's not meant ''make sense'' al it has to do is provide an "explanation" of the "Southern Flights".

But the big thing that Flat Earthers cannot face is that the earth has no edges.
If you look into it there have been circumnavigations in most directions that have met no "edge".
The notable circumnavigations, of course, are the:

• TransPolar circumnavigations illustrated here, which rule out the Ice Wall map:
  
  Transpolar Circumnavigations from: FlatEarth.ws, Debunking Flat Earth Misconceptions Lots of the "Right Stuff" there! and
  
  
• the Equatorial ones which rule out those BiPolar maps:
  Mike Horn's solo and human-powered ‘Horizontal’ crossing of the globe closely followed the Equator:
  Quote from: Mike Horn

  “When I left, I thought I knew enough to go round the world this way. Now that I am back, I know that I don’t know enough to start again.”
  
  
  Read the rest, with the hair raising photos in: Mike Horn for his solo and human-powered ‘Horizontal’ crossing of the globe following the Equator at Latitude zero.

  
  Maybe he used a Startrek transporter to cross the date line? But he claimed it was all human powered.
  

But there are many more that officially circumnavigate the earth around quite various routes such as the Vendée Globe.

Either those circumnavigations are all fabricated or . . . . . . .

It looks pretty much like flat earth is a lost cause and everybody knows it.

Which is why the experienced flat earther's won't even address this simple geometry question.

But why continue it if it's a known lost cause?

Well, maybe it's because some people do make money off of it and it's a conspiracy of the best kind. A real one.
The people involved in the conspiracy (i.e. who are conspiring together to promote flat earth) who are not getting paid in money get reward in other ways, being in charge of their little domains and feeling important.

But there's so many other ways to help people and feel important.

I better stop there. I should have probably stopped sooner.

But why continue it if it's a known lost cause?

As for the members here, I have some ideas and vastly different reasons apply to different people -but not here .

Quote from: Tom Foolery on March 13, 2019, 11:03:17 PM

OK Sorry guys. But seriously, the size of Australia -- or all countries at 25 "degrees" outside the equator -- is a huge problem for flat earth.
Thanks!

Yes it is but when problems like this arise a typical answer is often, " But that's not the official map" or
some will raise the possibility of a "Bipolar Map" or even a "Dual Earth Theory":

FE Bipolar Map Promoted by Tom Bishop

DET Northern Hemiplane Promoted by

DET Southern Hemiplane JRoweskeptic

Sandokhan's "True" Flat Earth Map

But these only raise other serious issues.

The subject of map projections of the globe  seems to be quite extensive.
I found a website with quite a number of them from Aitoff to Winkel Tripel.

But the only of these I found which FE appears to "believe" are the "models" are the Unipolar and Bipolar projections.
Sandokhan's map seems to be a rather crude copy of Tom Bishop's , all of which are copies of  the original of the Bipolar  Projections.
The other "model" or the "ice ring map" is of course the Unipolar or North Polar projection of the globe. Gleason's is one of these.

If the FE's should wish to present a better front they should design their own maps rather than trying to pass off obvious projections of the globe as a "True Flat Earth Map" with no distortions whatsoever .

Of course it is a moot point that this is never going to happen since the earth is not flat but is shaped like a globe.

Hey, rabinoz !
Do petrol companies in Australia still Publish free road maps ?

If the FE's should wish to present a better front they should design their own maps rather than trying to pass off obvious projections of the globe as a "True Flat Earth Map" with no distortions whatsoever .

Of course it is a moot point that this is never going to happen since the earth is not flat but is shaped like a globe.

Hey, rabinoz !
Do petrol companies in Australia still Publish free road maps ?

Not as far as I know.
We get our maps from the RACQ, our local auto club, and use the RACQ online Trip-planner (using Google Maps).
And I use a dedicated Garmin GPS in-car navigator. It works anywhere I've been, including in aircraft and ships over open ocean.

But there are quite old maps that look far closer to the Australia we see on Google Maps than on any flat earth maps (except the DET).
This map was published in 1744 and is drawn from Abel Janszoon Tasman's survey of parts of Australia in 1644.

Its shape is quite close to a map drawn from surveys performed before 1855 on the left and a current map of Australia:Those old navigators and surveyors of 1644 achieved surprisingly good results considering the instruments they had at the time.
The 1855 map was largely from land surveys.

Map of Australia 1855


Recent map of the Australia

So these satellites do not work we change a bit the map; people in 1855 have estimated the Australia map perfectly, right? What a wisdom!

Who said perfectly?  Clearly measurements are more accurate today than 100 years ago.

Who said perfectly?  Clearly measurements are more accurate today than 100 years ago.

The map of Australia is still not fully known. People in 1855 clearly could make many mistakes about it.

Quote from: inquisitive on June 09, 2019, 06:20:17 AM

Who said perfectly?  Clearly measurements are more accurate today than 100 years ago.

The map of Australia is still not fully known. People in 1855 clearly could make many mistakes about it.

Which parts, we have the WGS-84 model and GPS which provides accurate and repeatable location data?

How long is Australia ?
I understand it's been around for some time ?
But apparently Rowbotham wasn't aware of this ?

Quote from: wise on June 09, 2019, 06:42:19 AM

Quote from: inquisitive on June 09, 2019, 06:20:17 AM

Who said perfectly?  Clearly measurements are more accurate today than 100 years ago.

The map of Australia is still not fully known. People in 1855 clearly could make many mistakes about it.

Which parts, we have the WGS-84 model and GPS which provides accurate and repeatable location data?

The device you are using has a map installed as default. shows you at a point on the map. GPS location devices at different points calculate and give you your point. this data does not indicate your position on the actual map. this data indicates your location relative to the map that GPS devices assume. For this reason, you can go to two different places shown per at 100 kilometers on the map at different travel times. Because in reality one is closer and the other is more distant but both shown are equal in map assumed in  your GPS device.