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Shills claim rockets work in a vacuum.

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Papa Legba

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Re: Shills claim rockets work in a vacuum.
« Reply #360 on: December 07, 2016, 07:57:31 AM »
Quote from: Empirical on December 07, 2016, 07:41:46 AM
It's not in the link, so what that proves nothing about CoM

It proves you don't use COM to calculate the Work done by a gas don't it?

Which is the subject btw...

Gas flows naturally from areas of higher to lower pressure using its own energy (is this simple enough for you?):

http://www.answers.com/Q/Does_gas_flow_from_low_pressure_to_high_pressure?#slide=1

And when it flows into an area of zero pressure its energy is conserved & no Work is done...

This is the result called free expansion:

http://web.mit.edu/16.unified/www/FALL/thermodynamics/notes/node33.html

Conservation. Of. Energy.

Learning can be fun!
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Empirical

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Re: Shills claim rockets work in a vacuum.
« Reply #361 on: December 07, 2016, 08:01:37 AM »
Quote from: Papa Legba on December 07, 2016, 07:57:31 AM
Quote from: Empirical on December 07, 2016, 07:41:46 AM
It's not in the link, so what that proves nothing about CoM

It proves you don't use COM to calculate the Work done by a gas don't it?

Which is the subject btw...

Gas flows naturally from areas of higher to lower pressure using its own energy (is this simple enough for you?):

http://www.answers.com/Q/Does_gas_flow_from_low_pressure_to_high_pressure?#slide=1

And when it flows into an area of zero pressure its energy is conserved & no Work is done...

This is the result called free expansion:

http://web.mit.edu/16.unified/www/FALL/thermodynamics/notes/node33.html

Conservation. Of. Energy.

Learning can be fun!
So you were unable to show any of these three points to be wrong, so you admit they are true.
1. That gas particles have momentum
2. That momentum must be conserved in a gas.
3. That to leave the rocket in -> direction, then the gas particles must have momentum in -> direction.
Quote from: Papa Legba on December 07, 2016, 05:02:12 AM
https://www.chem.purdue.edu/gchelp/liquids/character.html

I've posted it enough times.
Wait, Papa posted a link to a website that says gasses are made of particles, and he said that the website is correct.
So you admit gas is made of particles.

Also here is some better drawings from http://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/91789/rocket-thrust-gas-free-expansion-of-gas


Also you should read this
Quote
If someone ever says "free expansion does no work" all they mean is that it does no work on the vacuum, which is pretty obvious in retrospect. This is because 19th century experimenters and 21st century high schools find it easiest to talk about gas properties in terms of pistons pushing on containers of gas. If the piston is replaced by nothingness, well clearly no work will be extracted from the system.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2016, 08:14:15 AM by Empirical »
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Denspressure

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Re: Shills claim rockets work in a vacuum.
« Reply #362 on: December 07, 2016, 08:04:34 AM »
Papa, you have to remember that there isn't a vacuum inside a rocket engine combustion chamber. The combustion chamber is put under immense heat and pressure.
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Papa Legba

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Re: Shills claim rockets work in a vacuum.
« Reply #363 on: December 07, 2016, 08:26:56 AM »
Quote from: Denspressure on December 07, 2016, 08:04:34 AM
The combustion chamber is put under immense heat and pressure.

It has not even been shown that combustion is possible in a vacuum for a start.

And pressure is a scalar quantity, so there will be no unbalanced force within the chamber anyway:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pressure#Definition

(Empirical take note!)

An unbalanced force can only be created when the internal pressure created by the rocket engine meets an external pressure.

In a vacuum there is no external pressure so no unbalanced force is created.

The gas molecules will simply leave the rocket, with both energy & momentum conserved, & whiz off into the vast nothingness of space.

This is all perfectly understandable if you simply get your head round free expansion btw.

http://www.etomica.org/app/modules/sites/JouleThomson/Background2.html

Or understand that you cannot push on nothing.
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Empirical

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Re: Shills claim rockets work in a vacuum.
« Reply #364 on: December 07, 2016, 08:40:44 AM »
Quote from: Papa Legba on December 07, 2016, 08:26:56 AM
Quote from: Denspressure on December 07, 2016, 08:04:34 AM
The combustion chamber is put under immense heat and pressure.

It has not even been shown that combustion is possible in a vacuum for a start.

And pressure is a scalar quantity, so there will be no unbalanced force within the chamber anyway:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pressure#Definition
Wow. Force=Pressure*Area right. The Force is a vector and the Area is a (psudo)vector. And since there is a hole in the rocket, the sum of all of the area vectors don't equal zero, but you won't understand this as vector calculus is a bit above your head.
Since p isn't zero, and A isn't zero, F isn't Zero.
Quote
An unbalanced force can only be created when the internal pressure created by the rocket engine meets an external pressure.

In a vacuum there is no external pressure so no unbalanced force is created.
No, that's wrong. The internal pressure can only do work against the external pressure when the external pressure isn't zero. BUT THE GAS IS NOT TRYING TO DO WORK ON THE VACUUM, IT'S DOING WORK ON THE ROCKET!
 http://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/91789/rocket-thrust-gas-free-expansion-of-gas
Quote
If someone ever says "free expansion does no work" all they mean is that it does no work on the vacuum, which is pretty obvious in retrospect. This is because 19th century experimenters and 21st century high schools find it easiest to talk about gas properties in terms of pistons pushing on containers of gas. If the piston is replaced by nothingness, well clearly no work will be extracted from the system.

Quote
The gas molecules will simply leave the rocket, with both energy & momentum conserved, & whiz off into the vast nothingness of space.
To leave the rocket they must have momentum relative to the rocket, therefore something else must gain momentum in the opposite direction.
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Papa Legba

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Re: Shills claim rockets work in a vacuum.
« Reply #365 on: December 07, 2016, 08:51:28 AM »
Quote from: Empirical on December 07, 2016, 08:40:44 AM
Wow. Force=Pressure*Area

Yes.

But it is still just a derivative of N2, i.e. f=ma, thus only representing f1, so still needs a second, external mass with which to interact in order to create motion according to N3 (f1=f2).

But a vacuum is Nothing; thus there can be no second object, f2, & no motion can be created.

All simple stuff, as Newton & Thermodynamics are not incompatible.

Now quibble...

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PsychedelicPill

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Re: Shills claim rockets work in a vacuum.
« Reply #366 on: December 07, 2016, 09:26:23 AM »
Quote from: Papa Legba on December 07, 2016, 08:26:56 AM
Quote from: Denspressure on December 07, 2016, 08:04:34 AM
The combustion chamber is put under immense heat and pressure.

It has not even been shown that combustion is possible in a vacuum for a start.

Well, when you're on the ropes, swinging wildly is an option of last resort.

Quote
And pressure is a scalar quantity, so there will be no unbalanced force within the chamber anyway

This is already already answered (see below), but there is a better answer, just for you. If you're right (clue: you're not), then that would also apply for a rocket engine in an atmosphere. Congratulations Einstein, you just proved rockets don't work in an atmosphere! (Just in case you're confused, you didn't prove that. I was employing sarcasm: it makes the Schadenfreude even more palatable).

Velocity is a vector quantity. Rocket thrust in a vacuum is given by:-

F = mVe + peAe

Hence, the thrust produced is also a vector. But you have proven something! Despite your inability to comprehend how vector and scalar quantities combine, you claim to be the only person on the planet capable of interpreting the Joule experiment to mean that all of rocket science is wrong! Good job, you! Well done sir!

(This roast is getting a little dry as it's going on too long - will need gravy shortly).

Quote
An unbalanced force can only be created when the internal pressure created by the rocket engine meets an external pressure.

In a vacuum there is no external pressure so no unbalanced force is created.

I'll re-plate your dinner and send it out again.

The pressure is created in the combustion chamber, which has a narrow opening (called the throat) at one end. That creates an imbalance of forces.

Quote
The gas molecules will simply leave the rocket, with both energy & momentum conserved, & whiz off into the vast nothingness of space.

This is all perfectly understandable if you simply get your head round free expansion btw.

Wrongety wrong. The gas isn't freely expanding, as it is being constantly created in the combustion chamber. Pressure, ooh, several hundred Pa for the duration of the burn.

Quote
Or understand that you cannot push on nothing.

Kerrect! You can, of course, push on a rocket.
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markjo

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Re: Shills claim rockets work in a vacuum.
« Reply #367 on: December 07, 2016, 10:04:07 AM »
Quote from: Papa Legba on December 07, 2016, 08:26:56 AM
The gas molecules will simply leave the rocket, with both energy & momentum conserved, & whiz off into the vast nothingness of space.
How did the gas molecules leave the rocket without interacting with the rocket?
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Lonegranger

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Re: Shills claim rockets work in a vacuum.
« Reply #368 on: December 07, 2016, 10:12:24 AM »
Quote from: Papa Legba on December 07, 2016, 07:57:31 AM
Quote from: Empirical on December 07, 2016, 07:41:46 AM
It's not in the link, so what that proves nothing about CoM

It proves you don't use COM to calculate the Work done by a gas don't it?

Which is the subject btw...

Gas flows naturally from areas of higher to lower pressure using its own energy (is this simple enough for you?):

http://www.answers.com/Q/Does_gas_flow_from_low_pressure_to_high_pressure?#slide=1

And when it flows into an area of zero pressure its energy is conserved & no Work is done...

This is the result called free expansion:

http://web.mit.edu/16.unified/www/FALL/thermodynamics/notes/node33.html

Conservation. Of. Energy.

Learning can be fun!


As usual you have it all wrong. Gas is gas, mass is mass and velocity is velocity wherever it happens to be. The problem is not the concept.....conservation of momentum, it's your desire to shoehorn it into you narrow predetermined view.
Go on, seriously think about those balloons and how they might act....here on the ground and in a vacuum..... the result is very similar.....gas moves in one direction and the balloon moves in the opposite. It's not a big stretch of the imagination.
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Empirical

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Re: Shills claim rockets work in a vacuum.
« Reply #369 on: December 07, 2016, 10:14:13 AM »
Quote from: markjo on December 07, 2016, 10:04:07 AM
Quote from: Papa Legba on December 07, 2016, 08:26:56 AM
The gas molecules will simply leave the rocket, with both energy & momentum conserved, & whiz off into the vast nothingness of space.
How did the gas molecules leave the rocket without interacting with the rocket?
Because the gas particles just know the rocket is there, even though Papa at some point posted that ideal gas molecules don't experience any forces. I know it makes no sense, you just have to go with it lol.

Also I think I may have found an even simpler argument for why Papa is wrong, even though it's still probably above his level.

1. The velocity of the center of mass of a closed system can't change
2. So in some frame of reference th velocity of the center of mass is zero, in this frame of reference the center of mass can never change position.
3. The gas leaving the rocket would change the center of mass unless the rocket moved as well.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2016, 10:19:59 AM by Empirical »
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aisantaros

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Re: Shills claim rockets work in a vacuum.
« Reply #370 on: December 07, 2016, 11:22:25 AM »
As always I have a better question :D Do a spring loaded medicine ball shooting engine propel itself in vacuum and zero G ?

Solve this first ! Yes or no ?
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markjo

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Re: Shills claim rockets work in a vacuum.
« Reply #371 on: December 07, 2016, 11:25:41 AM »
We've debated that very questions for more than a hundred pages in another thread with pretty much the same results as with this thread.
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Papa Legba

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Re: Shills claim rockets work in a vacuum.
« Reply #372 on: December 07, 2016, 11:30:50 AM »
Quote from: aisantaros on December 07, 2016, 11:22:25 AM
Do a spring loaded medicine ball shooting engine propel itself in vacuum and zero G ?

Irrelevant as we are talking about gases not solids:

http://www.chem.purdue.edu/gchelp/liquids/character.html

Quote from: Empirical on December 07, 2016, 10:14:13 AM
<mad citation-free anti-science garbage snipped>

Meh...

Quote from: Lonegranger on December 07, 2016, 10:12:24 AM
ditto.

Meh...

Quote from: markjo on December 07, 2016, 10:04:07 AM
ditto.

Meh...

Quote from: PsychopathicShill on December 07, 2016, 09:26:23 AM
F = mVe + peAe

Yeah that's N2 so you got F1...

But N3 is F1=F2.

So what is F2?

Retard.

Just GTFO, Losers.

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markjo

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Re: Shills claim rockets work in a vacuum.
« Reply #373 on: December 07, 2016, 11:58:20 AM »
Quote from: Papa Legba on December 07, 2016, 11:30:50 AM
Quote from: aisantaros on December 07, 2016, 11:22:25 AM
Do a spring loaded medicine ball shooting engine propel itself in vacuum and zero G ?

Irrelevant as we are talking about gases not solids:


Quote from: markjo on December 07, 2016, 10:04:07 AM
Quote from: Papa Legba on December 07, 2016, 08:26:56 AM
The gas molecules will simply leave the rocket, with both energy & momentum conserved, & whiz off into the vast nothingness of space.
How did the gas molecules leave the rocket without interacting with the rocket?
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Papa Legba

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Re: Shills claim rockets work in a vacuum.
« Reply #374 on: December 07, 2016, 12:22:49 PM »
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markjo

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Re: Shills claim rockets work in a vacuum.
« Reply #375 on: December 07, 2016, 12:29:05 PM »
So you're saying that gasses contained within the rocket do not interact with the rocket in any way, shape or form?
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Papa Legba

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Re: Shills claim rockets work in a vacuum.
« Reply #376 on: December 07, 2016, 12:36:39 PM »
Quote from: markjo on December 07, 2016, 12:29:05 PM
So you're saying that gasses contained within the rocket do not interact with the rocket in any way, shape or form?

No I am not.

I am saying that, in a vacuum, the gas would leave the rocket without doing any work on it.

And I am providing citations for every single thing I say...

Unlike you.

Please use scientific arguments rather than sophistry onebigmarkjo...

It makes you look like an ambulance-chasing lawyer.

Do they have 'penguins' in Croatia btw?
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markjo

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Re: Shills claim rockets work in a vacuum.
« Reply #377 on: December 07, 2016, 01:13:01 PM »
Quote from: Papa Legba on December 07, 2016, 12:36:39 PM
Quote from: markjo on December 07, 2016, 12:29:05 PM
So you're saying that gasses contained within the rocket do not interact with the rocket in any way, shape or form?

No I am not.
Then please describe the interactions that the gas would have with the rocket as it leaves the rocket.

Quote from: Papa Legba on December 07, 2016, 12:36:39 PM
I am saying that, in a vacuum, the gas would leave the rocket without doing any work on it.

And I am providing citations for every single thing I say...
Except that you are misrepresenting free expansion. 

You keep saying that in a Joule-Thompson experiment, no work is being done as a gas expands into a vacuum.

This is simply not true.

According to your own source:
Quote from: https://www.khanacademy.org/science/chemistry/thermodynamics-chemistry/internal-energy-sal/a/pressure-volume-work
The sign of work
As a matter of convention, negative work occurs when a system does work on the surroundings.

    When the gas does work the volume of a gas increases (ΔV>0) and the work done is negative.
    When work is done on the gas, the volume of the gas decreases (ΔV<0) and work is positive.

So, as the gas is leaves the pressurized chamber, positive work is done and when the gas expands into the evacuated chamber, negative work is done giving a net result of zero work done by the system.  However, there is still work being done within different parts of the system.

In the same way, as the pressurized gas leaves the rocket, positive work is done in that part of the system.
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Empirical

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Re: Shills claim rockets work in a vacuum.
« Reply #378 on: December 07, 2016, 01:17:02 PM »
1. The velocity of the centre of mass of a closed system can't change
2. So in some frame of reference the velocity of the centre of mass is zero, in this frame of reference the centre of mass can never change position.
3. The gas leaving the rocket would change the centre of mass unless the rocket moved as well.
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Papa Legba

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Re: Shills claim rockets work in a vacuum.
« Reply #379 on: December 07, 2016, 01:25:17 PM »
Quote from: Empirical on December 07, 2016, 01:17:02 PM
<mad citation-free garbage snipped>

Please stop botting my thread.

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Empirical

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Re: Shills claim rockets work in a vacuum.
« Reply #380 on: December 07, 2016, 01:33:37 PM »
Quote from: Papa Legba on December 07, 2016, 01:25:17 PM
Quote from: Empirical on December 07, 2016, 01:17:02 PM
<mad citation-free garbage snipped>

Please stop botting my thread.
Why do I need citations when it is all basic mechanics.
But Sure, citations.
1. The velocity of the centre of mass of a closed system can't change
http://www.batesville.k12.in.us/physics/APPhyNet/Dynamics/Center%20of%20Mass/Center_of_Mass_1.html
Quote
The net (external) force on a system of particles equals the mass of the system times the acceleration of the system's centre of mass
So if the net external force is zero, which it is in a closed system, the velocity doesn't change.

2. So in some frame of reference the velocity of the centre of mass is zero, in this frame of reference the centre of mass can never change position.
Does this need a citation?? Any object has a frame of reference where it's velocity is zero.
3. The gas leaving the rocket would change the centre of mass unless the rocket moved as well.
Again basic mechanics. All of the gas leaving the rocket means it moves towards the hole, that would change the centre of mass unless "some other object" (you can guess what) moves in the right direction to keep the centre of mass constant.
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Papa Legba

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Re: Shills claim rockets work in a vacuum.
« Reply #381 on: December 07, 2016, 01:45:52 PM »
Quote from: markjo on December 07, 2016, 01:13:01 PM
<obvious lies snipped>

Meh...

Quote from: Empirical on December 07, 2016, 01:33:37 PM
<total bullshit snipped>

Meh...

Less bullshit; more science please.
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rabinoz

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Re: Shills claim rockets work in a vacuum.
« Reply #382 on: December 07, 2016, 02:01:01 PM »
Quote from: Papa Legba on December 07, 2016, 12:22:49 PM
Quote from: markjo on December 07, 2016, 11:58:20 AM
How did the gas molecules leave the rocket without interacting with the rocket?
http://web.mit.edu/16.unified/www/FALL/thermodynamics/notes/node33.html
http://pubs.acs.org/doi/pdf/10.1021/j150043a002
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=eYQHIjkaEroC&pg=PA39&lpg=PA39&dq=joule+free+expansion+conservation+of+energy&source=bl&ots=lNNu7CV1-P&sig=YMAwtaJTmLf7BF4Ts4jcWzVTY98&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjWv6XJh6rPAhXEOxoKHXskDjw4ChDoAQgfMAE#v=onepage&q=joule%20free%20expansion%20conservation%20of%20energy&f=false
All of your references to free expansion apply to expansion in a closed isolated system. The rocket itself is not a closed isolated system. Can't you ever understand this simple point?

Quote from: Papa Legba
Wtf have you dyslexic cranks got against the laws of Thermodynamics ffs?
We have nothing against the laws of thermodynamics at all. They just have to be applied correctly.

Look, when your interpretation of free expansion seems in conflict with the voluminous references to rocket thrust in all pressures from 0 (a vacuum) up, then it seems certain that your interpretation of free expansion is incorrect.

Now, Robert A. Braeunig understands this a lot better than you
          Robert A. Braeunig, ROCKET PROPULSION.
And if you want the thermodynamics of rocket propulsion, here's a bit
          Robert A. Braeunig, ROCKET THERMODYNAMICS
Or
          THERMODYNAMIC CYCLES OF ROCKET ENGINES, V.M. Polyaev and V.A. Burkaltsev.

Just face it, you are wrong.
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Empirical

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Re: Shills claim rockets work in a vacuum.
« Reply #383 on: December 07, 2016, 02:04:23 PM »
Quote from: Papa Legba on December 07, 2016, 01:45:52 PM
Quote from: markjo on December 07, 2016, 01:13:01 PM
<obvious lies snipped>

Meh...

Quote from: Empirical on December 07, 2016, 01:33:37 PM
<total bullshit snipped>

Meh...

Less bullshit; more science please.
The  fact that velocity of the centre of mass of a closed system can't change is bullshit now, you really believe only in thermodynamics, everything else is wrong even Newtonian mechanics. LOL

Quote from: rabinoz on December 07, 2016, 02:01:01 PM
Quote from: Papa Legba on December 07, 2016, 12:22:49 PM
Quote from: markjo on December 07, 2016, 11:58:20 AM
How did the gas molecules leave the rocket without interacting with the rocket?
http://web.mit.edu/16.unified/www/FALL/thermodynamics/notes/node33.html
http://pubs.acs.org/doi/pdf/10.1021/j150043a002
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=eYQHIjkaEroC&pg=PA39&lpg=PA39&dq=joule+free+expansion+conservation+of+energy&source=bl&ots=lNNu7CV1-P&sig=YMAwtaJTmLf7BF4Ts4jcWzVTY98&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjWv6XJh6rPAhXEOxoKHXskDjw4ChDoAQgfMAE#v=onepage&q=joule%20free%20expansion%20conservation%20of%20energy&f=false
All of your references to free expansion apply to expansion in a closed isolated system. The rocket itself is not a closed isolated system. Can't you ever understand this simple point?

Quote from: Papa Legba
Wtf have you dyslexic cranks got against the laws of Thermodynamics ffs?
We have nothing against the laws of thermodynamics at all. They just have to be applied correctly.

Look, when your interpretation of free expansion seems in conflict with the voluminous references to rocket thrust in all pressures from 0 (a vacuum) up, then it seems certain that your interpretation of free expansion is incorrect.

Now, Robert A. Braeunig understands this a lot better than you
          Robert A. Braeunig, ROCKET PROPULSION.
And if you want the thermodynamics of rocket propulsion, here's a bit
          Robert A. Braeunig, ROCKET THERMODYNAMICS
Or
          THERMODYNAMIC CYCLES OF ROCKET ENGINES, V.M. Polyaev and V.A. Burkaltsev.

Just face it, you are wrong.
You have pissed him off now, to say that his holy and most glorious thermodynamics agrees with the faulty theories of the shill sciences is blasphemy.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2016, 02:08:35 PM by Empirical »
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Papa Legba

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Re: Shills claim rockets work in a vacuum.
« Reply #384 on: December 07, 2016, 02:13:46 PM »
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Empirical

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Re: Shills claim rockets work in a vacuum.
« Reply #385 on: December 07, 2016, 02:26:30 PM »
Quote from: Papa Legba on December 07, 2016, 02:13:46 PM
Quote from: rabinoz on December 07, 2016, 02:01:01 PM
<propaganda bullshit snipped>

Meh...

Quote from: Empirical on December 07, 2016, 02:04:23 PM
<strawman bullshit snipped>

Meh...

Stop pretending you are proving anything except that shills claim rockets work in a vacuum...

This one citation alone wrecks your bullshit:

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=eYQHIjkaEroC&pg=PA39&lpg=PA39&dq=joule+free+expansion+conservation+of+energy&source=bl&ots=lNNu7CV1-P&sig=YMAwtaJTmLf7BF4Ts4jcWzVTY98&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjWv6XJh6rPAhXEOxoKHXskDjw4ChDoAQgfMAE#v=onepage&q=joule%20free%20expansion%20conservation%20of%20energy&f=false

Just fucking READ it, eh?
OH NO, I FORGOT THAT ROCKETS WORK BY RELEASING GAS INTO A SECOND SEALED CONTAINER, OH NOOOOO!!
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Rayzor

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Re: Shills claim rockets work in a vacuum.
« Reply #386 on: December 07, 2016, 02:39:20 PM »
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Papa Legba

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Re: Shills claim rockets work in a vacuum.
« Reply #387 on: December 07, 2016, 03:18:02 PM »
Quote from: Empirical on December 07, 2016, 02:26:30 PM
OH NO, I FORGOT THAT ROCKETS IN SPACE WORK BY RELEASING GAS INTO A SECOND SEALED CONTAINER, VACUUM OH NOOOOO!!

Fixed.

Quote from: Rayzor on December 07, 2016, 02:39:20 PM
remember  PV=nRT.

Nope.

Not been mentioned all thread.

Why don't you explain what it means Geoff?

Then go spam another holocaust denial thread using a sock-puppet like you just did you sick fucking freak?

There is NO depth to which you are unprepared to sink, is there Geoff?

None at all.

But yeah; the ideal gas law...

Tell us how somehow it makes a gas do work in a vacuum & thus defy thermodynamics eh, holocaust-denying shill Geoff?
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rabinoz

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Re: Shills claim rockets work in a vacuum.
« Reply #388 on: December 07, 2016, 03:35:05 PM »
Quote from: Papa Legba on December 07, 2016, 02:13:46 PM

This one citation alone wrecks your bullshit:

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=eYQHIjkaEroC&pg=PA39&lpg=PA39&dq=joule+free+expansion+conservation+of+energy&source=bl&ots=lNNu7CV1-P&sig=YMAwtaJTmLf7BF4Ts4jcWzVTY98&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjWv6XJh6rPAhXEOxoKHXskDjw4ChDoAQgfMAE#v=onepage&q=joule%20free%20expansion%20conservation%20of%20energy&f=false

Just fucking READ it, eh?

Stop being a complete idiot. The free expansion into a vacuum applies only to a closed isolated system.
          Difference between Free Expansion of a Gas and Reversible Isothermal Expansion
and any number more references you like.

How come YOU are the only one claiming otherwise. Even your wonderful KhanAcademy reference clearly states that what you were quote only applies to piston-cylinder type systems, not continuous flow systems like steam and gas turbines or rockets.

It's funny how steam and rockets both use choked de Laval nozzles - remember them?
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Papa Legba

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Re: Shills claim rockets work in a vacuum.
« Reply #389 on: December 07, 2016, 03:50:02 PM »
Quote from: rabinoz on December 07, 2016, 03:35:05 PM
The free expansion into a vacuum applies only to a closed isolated system.

Already addressed:

https://www.bluffton.edu/homepages/facstaff/bergerd/NSC_111/thermo2.html

A rocket in a vacuum is by definition a closed/isolated system.

Just stop Lying, Geoff the Holocaust denier.
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