HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)

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Stash

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Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets CAN fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #1860 on: November 15, 2019, 03:17:25 PM »
What is the gas pushing against to allow it to move?
Gas.

Quote from: JackBlack
How does the gas magically know to stop pushing outwards in all directions and instead only push towards the opening?
Decompression.

Quote from: JackBlack
How does the gas move towards the opening if it is pushing towards it, meaning it would be pushed away?
It's expanding against a weaker compressive force in the opposite direction (atmosphere).

Expansion means uniform, in all directions.

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sceptimatic

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Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets CAN fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #1861 on: November 15, 2019, 03:35:53 PM »

If it isn't immediately released it is still applying pressure.

Answer the two questions:

If am travelling forward at 50mph and decelerate to 40mph, during that deceleration, I'm still moving forward.  Y/N?
Yes.

Quote from: NotSoSkeptical

I have a pressurized tire that is leaking air (decompressing).  It is at 32PSI and is leaking at a 1 PSI every 2 hours.  Does the tire still have pressure?  Y/N?
Yes.

How can the tire have pressure if it's all heading toward the opening.
Externally.

Quote from: NotSoSkeptical

  How is it maintaining it's rigidity and not going flat as a result of the air all heading toward the opening to decompress.
It's not.


Quote from: NotSoSkeptical

  To hold rigidity, the pressure must be pushing equally in all directions.
Exactly.

1) How does the 32PSI tire leaking at a 1 PSI every 2 hours still have pressure (You answered Yes it does) yet...
2) It's not maintaining its rigidity (You said it does not maintain its rigidity) yet...
3) It actually is maintaining rigidity because it won't be flat for about 64 hours (See your answer to #1) yet...
4) To hold rigidity, the pressure must be pushing equally in all directions (You answered Yes)

So you said that Yes, the tire does have pressure as its leaking and that pressure is pressing on all sides yet it is not maintaining rigidity.

If that were true, the tire would lose its rigidity immediately, immediately go flat, not take 64 hours to completely lose its rigidity and go flat.

You don't see that as a contradiction?
No contradictions whatsoever.
What I do see is a failure of you and others to understand what I put forward.
You change from a container to a tyre and believe it's the same scenario but it's not. There is a difference and it should be obvious.
This is why you're getting what you think are contradictions.

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sceptimatic

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Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets CAN fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #1862 on: November 15, 2019, 03:38:04 PM »
What is the gas pushing against to allow it to move?
Gas.

Quote from: JackBlack
How does the gas magically know to stop pushing outwards in all directions and instead only push towards the opening?
Decompression.

Quote from: JackBlack
How does the gas move towards the opening if it is pushing towards it, meaning it would be pushed away?
It's expanding against a weaker compressive force in the opposite direction (atmosphere).

Expansion means uniform, in all directions.
Nope, not in what we're dealing with.

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NotSoSkeptical

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Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets CAN fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #1863 on: November 15, 2019, 04:01:18 PM »
What is the gas pushing against to allow it to move?
Gas.

Quote from: JackBlack
How does the gas magically know to stop pushing outwards in all directions and instead only push towards the opening?
Decompression.

Quote from: JackBlack
How does the gas move towards the opening if it is pushing towards it, meaning it would be pushed away?
It's expanding against a weaker compressive force in the opposite direction (atmosphere).

Expansion means uniform, in all directions.
Nope, not in what we're dealing with.

Why isn't it.  When I blow up a balloon, I'm pretty sure it expands in all directions.
Rabinoz RIP

That would put you in the same category as pedophile perverts like John Davis, NSS, robots like Stash, Shifter, and victimized kids like Alexey.

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Stash

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Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets CAN fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #1864 on: November 15, 2019, 04:07:43 PM »

If it isn't immediately released it is still applying pressure.

Answer the two questions:

If am travelling forward at 50mph and decelerate to 40mph, during that deceleration, I'm still moving forward.  Y/N?
Yes.

Quote from: NotSoSkeptical

I have a pressurized tire that is leaking air (decompressing).  It is at 32PSI and is leaking at a 1 PSI every 2 hours.  Does the tire still have pressure?  Y/N?
Yes.

How can the tire have pressure if it's all heading toward the opening.
Externally.

Quote from: NotSoSkeptical

  How is it maintaining it's rigidity and not going flat as a result of the air all heading toward the opening to decompress.
It's not.


Quote from: NotSoSkeptical

  To hold rigidity, the pressure must be pushing equally in all directions.
Exactly.

1) How does the 32PSI tire leaking at a 1 PSI every 2 hours still have pressure (You answered Yes it does) yet...
2) It's not maintaining its rigidity (You said it does not maintain its rigidity) yet...
3) It actually is maintaining rigidity because it won't be flat for about 64 hours (See your answer to #1) yet...
4) To hold rigidity, the pressure must be pushing equally in all directions (You answered Yes)

So you said that Yes, the tire does have pressure as its leaking and that pressure is pressing on all sides yet it is not maintaining rigidity.

If that were true, the tire would lose its rigidity immediately, immediately go flat, not take 64 hours to completely lose its rigidity and go flat.

You don't see that as a contradiction?
No contradictions whatsoever.
What I do see is a failure of you and others to understand what I put forward.
You change from a container to a tyre and believe it's the same scenario but it's not. There is a difference and it should be obvious.
This is why you're getting what you think are contradictions.

Ok:

I have a pressurized container with a gauge on one end and a valve on the other that is opened  (decompressing).  The container is at 32PSI and is ejecting through the valve at 1 PSI every 2 hours.  Does the container still have pressure?  Y/N?

After 32 hours, the gauge reads 16 PSI, does the container still have pressure?  Y/N?

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sceptimatic

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Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets CAN fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #1865 on: November 15, 2019, 11:09:06 PM »


Why isn't it.  When I blow up a balloon, I'm pretty sure it expands in all directions.
The balloon skin does, yes.
We aren't dealing with the skin, we're dealing with the gas inside of it, but more im portantly we are delaing with a solid container at this moment.

Too many people are changing the set up from a balloon to a tyre and what not.
That's fine if you want to but add in a gauge because this is also what we're arguing at this point.

I'm sure you can see how it's going to get confusing for you all.
I have no issues in answering any but you'll definitely get mixed up.

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sceptimatic

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Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets CAN fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #1866 on: November 15, 2019, 11:21:38 PM »

Ok:

I have a pressurized container with a gauge on one end and a valve on the other that is opened  (decompressing).
Correct.

Quote from: Stash
The container is at 32PSI and is ejecting through the valve at 1 PSI every 2 hours.  Does the container still have pressure?  Y/N?
Yes.


Quote from: Stash
After 32 hours, the gauge reads 16 PSI, does the container still have pressure?  Y/N?
Yes.


Now this is where you'll sit back and scratch your head and likely come back with " scepti you're contradicting yourself...can't you see."

Or something like that.


The container has pressure because it still has a gas fight on.
The container itself has its pressure releasing when the valve is open.

The gas is not directly pushing against the container with positive force. It's simply decompressing away from the container walls, even though the outer molecules are still touching.
And this is the key.

This is what you need to get around and understand why I explain what I explain.


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Macarios

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Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #1867 on: November 15, 2019, 11:24:33 PM »


You are trying to hide the fact that the expansion continues in all direction all the time.
Do you actually know what you're saying?

Hide it as in how?

As in trying to dismiss the fact that the "head of your sretching man" will keep pressing the sealed end of the container and pushing it away from the center of the total mass of the system.

Out of the container there is no pressure.
Inside there is.
Gas simply gets squeezed from the pressurised area into the non-pressurized.
It's already squeezed by being pressurised. All it can do not is decompress to do work. It doesn't just squeeze again into a non- pressurised area, it expands into it until it fills that area and only then does it create a compressive reaction to its expansion of which the rocket sits atop of.
Exactly. By expanding it pushes itself not only towards the opening but in all directions. The other side carries the rocket with it.
Quote from: Macarios
Force pushing the exiting mass of the gas is action.
What force is pushing the exiting mass?
Explain what's happening.
The force of the expansion of the all gas. One side pushes the outer layers in one direction, the other side pushes the rocket in the other direction.
Quote from: Macarios
The exiting mass pressing back is reaction.
Explain what's happening.
Just did in the previous red sentence.
Quote from: Macarios
Reaction pushes the rocket in opposite direction.
As simpe as that.
Explain what's happening.
All gas in the container expands in all directions, and the pressure pushes the rocket.
Quote from: Macarios
Where do you need "resistance"?
Life doesn't work without it in any way shape or form.
You're duped into thinking we don;t need it because you accept space rockets.
Wrong. It is the other way around.I accept space rockets because I understand how they work, whether I want it or not. The acceptance came AFTER the understanding.
Quote from: Macarios
The only role that the missing resistance could have there is to prevent the rocket from bouncing off the mass of the exhaust.
Tell me about this bouncing off the mass of the exhaust.
Whenever you in any way push any mass, the reaction force pushes you off that mass.
And yes, the exhaust gas do have mass.


Quote from: Macarios
Car pushes itself off the road.
Not without fuel and air.
Air is there just to burn the fuel, not to push the car. You can pedal it without fuel.
(Rocket carries own oxidizer and doesn't need air.)
The only thing that pushes the car is the reaction from pushing the road back by the tires.
It is enough to push the road backwards.

Quote from: Macarios
Ship pushes itself off the water.
Not without fuel and air.
Scuba diver doesn't need either and he still moves.
It is enough to push the water backwards.



Quote from: Macarios
Rocket pushes itself off the exhaust gasses.
Explain how it does this.
Don't just say it just does. Explain what's happening inside the rocket, because outside apparently doesn't exist to a moving rocket, except to expel supposed waste.
So tell me what exactly is happening inside.
Explain it fully so I'm under no illusions.
Gas expands in all direction. In one direction is the appreture and it goes out. In the other direction is closed end and the gas pushes the rocket.

Quote from: Macarios
In your "explanations" those things don't work that way, but in reality they do.
Explain them all in detail.

My comments are in red.
I tried to make them as simple as possible.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2019, 11:26:23 PM by Macarios »
I don't have to fight about anything.
These things are not about me.
When one points facts out, they speak for themselves.
The main goal in all that is simplicity.

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Stash

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Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets CAN fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #1868 on: November 15, 2019, 11:55:17 PM »

Ok:

I have a pressurized container with a gauge on one end and a valve on the other that is opened  (decompressing).
Correct.

Quote from: Stash
The container is at 32PSI and is ejecting through the valve at 1 PSI every 2 hours.  Does the container still have pressure?  Y/N?
Yes.


Quote from: Stash
After 32 hours, the gauge reads 16 PSI, does the container still have pressure?  Y/N?
Yes.


Now this is where you'll sit back and scratch your head and likely come back with " scepti you're contradicting yourself...can't you see."

Or something like that.


The container has pressure because it still has a gas fight on.
The container itself has its pressure releasing when the valve is open.

The gas is not directly pushing against the container with positive force. It's simply decompressing away from the container walls, even though the outer molecules are still touching.
And this is the key.

This is what you need to get around and understand why I explain what I explain.

After 32 hours the gauge reads 16 PSI, I close the valve. The gauge reads 16 PSI. Is the gas now pushing against the walls with a positive force? A positive force of 16 PSI? Y/N

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sceptimatic

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Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #1869 on: November 16, 2019, 12:19:01 AM »


My comments are in red.
I tried to make them as simple as possible.
Feel free to pick one specific thing and let's deal with that specific thing before we move on.

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sceptimatic

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Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets CAN fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #1870 on: November 16, 2019, 12:20:31 AM »
After 32 hours the gauge reads 16 PSI, I close the valve. The gauge reads 16 PSI. Is the gas now pushing against the walls with a positive force?
 A positive force of 16 PSI? Y/N
Yes.

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Stash

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Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets CAN fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #1871 on: November 16, 2019, 12:26:12 AM »
After 32 hours the gauge reads 16 PSI, I close the valve. The gauge reads 16 PSI. Is the gas now pushing against the walls with a positive force?
 A positive force of 16 PSI? Y/N
Yes.

When I reopen the valve, the gauge still reads 16 PSI, is the gas still pushing against the walls with a positive force? A positive force of 16 PSI? Y/N

Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets CAN fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #1872 on: November 16, 2019, 12:40:51 AM »

Ok:

I have a pressurized container with a gauge on one end and a valve on the other that is opened  (decompressing).
Correct.

Quote from: Stash
The container is at 32PSI and is ejecting through the valve at 1 PSI every 2 hours.  Does the container still have pressure?  Y/N?
Yes.


Quote from: Stash
After 32 hours, the gauge reads 16 PSI, does the container still have pressure?  Y/N?
Yes.


Now this is where you'll sit back and scratch your head and likely come back with " scepti you're contradicting yourself...can't you see."

Or something like that.


The container has pressure because it still has a gas fight on.
The container itself has its pressure releasing when the valve is open.

The gas is not directly pushing against the container with positive force. It's simply decompressing away from the container walls, even though the outer molecules are still touching.
And this is the key.

This is what you need to get around and understand why I explain what I explain.

scepti is clearly using definitions that differ from "conventional" and have yet to be determined.

because - HOW WOULD TEH GAS KNOW IT"S IN A FLEXIBLE BALLOON VS A RIGID IMPERMEABLE CONTAINER?!

completely bonkers.

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sceptimatic

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Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets CAN fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #1873 on: November 16, 2019, 12:44:59 AM »
After 32 hours the gauge reads 16 PSI, I close the valve. The gauge reads 16 PSI. Is the gas now pushing against the walls with a positive force?
 A positive force of 16 PSI? Y/N
Yes.

When I reopen the valve, the gauge still reads 16 PSI, is the gas still pushing against the walls with a positive force? A positive force of 16 PSI? Y/N
No.
The positive force is now expanding out into the opening and releasing the push against the walls, negatively.
Also the psi is no longer 16psi. It would be a continuous drop because it is not positively pushing against the gauge piston.

Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #1874 on: November 16, 2019, 12:48:26 AM »
So its either sponges that dont move
Or its people that move.
Or its both?
Whicj is it?
Read back, it's all been explained.

I did
You said sponge people are moving off a bus.
No I didn't.
Go and read and absorb what I did say.

i like how you deleted what you said from my reply...
are you trump?
you realize this is all text that can be easily verified?
i've not changed a single word - just added some bolding.







To give you a simple analogy (and take it as that and do not use it as an argument) we'll imagine a bus that is sealed off and inside it are people all crammed in to such an extent they have to fight to stop themselves being crushed.
Imagine if they could survive being crushed smaller.
Ok so now you can imagine that...if the bus was sealed at each end, the crush would be even from back to front. Even pressure hitting both sealed off exits and also everyone squashed against the side walls and ceiling of that bus, plus floor.

Ok we both know this as being a sealed container of pressure, right, so let's see what happens.

Outside of that bus are a crowd of people who are body to body and slightly compressing into each other all around That bus and also stood on top of each other and also on top of the bus with people stood on top of them...and so on.
Under the bus there would be a few laid under it but not being squashed more than the rest because the bus wheels hold back the dense mass on it by using a solid ground.

Ok, so what we know is, the people inside the bus are itching to decompress. They're trying to break open the bus at its weakest point (assume windowless...let's not add in issues).
Suddenly the back door is breached and the compressed people in that bus start to decompress against the looser compression of the external crowd and manage to push some out of the way which compresses them into the people behind them.
However, inside the bus, the people behind the first out can also decompress as they push and are pushed into the first.
The one behind does the same.
By this time it will be noted that the bus is moving in the opposite direction and all the work done at the first decompression is filled by the falling people from above who fill the void that the first decompressed person created by compressing the crowd back...which as you know were less compressed at first.

Now this keeps happening because there's so many people crammed into the bus and it becomes each person expanding out and expanded into the back of.
As a little time goes on, the expansion inside the bus will become less and less as more people are pushed out.

Now here's the key.

The people at the other end of the bus have had to wait their turn to fully expand because all the way down that bus  became a slight expansion of each person from large (front) to extremely small (back).

Everybody expands at the front and is followed by those behind in a natural decompression.

By the time most are out, there's still some people still left inside the bus, all of who are simply equalised to the people outside of it.
There becomes no more movement. of the bus.


Read this carefully, seriously.
Absorb what's been said because you're getting closer to understanding, whether you end up agreeing or not.


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sceptimatic

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Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets CAN fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #1875 on: November 16, 2019, 12:49:55 AM »


scepti is clearly using definitions that differ from "conventional" and have yet to be determined.

because - HOW WOULD THE GAS KNOW IT"S IN A FLEXIBLE BALLOON VS A RIGID IMPERMEABLE CONTAINER?!

completely bonkers.
The gas doesn't have to know what it's in.
The actual containers and external atmospheric pressure are the deciding factors.

Both different set ups and both have to be dealt with in exactly that way.

Rigid container holds compressed air and is stopped from expanding by that rigidity.

A balloon holds compressed air but it expands the skin against the external atmospheric pressure and compresses that by what's inside the balloon.

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sceptimatic

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Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #1876 on: November 16, 2019, 12:52:07 AM »
i like how you deleted what you said from my reply...
are you trump?
you realize this is all text that can be easily verified?
i've not changed a single word - just added some bolding.

What have I deleted?

Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets CAN fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #1877 on: November 16, 2019, 12:56:39 AM »
After 32 hours the gauge reads 16 PSI, I close the valve. The gauge reads 16 PSI. Is the gas now pushing against the walls with a positive force?
 A positive force of 16 PSI? Y/N
Yes.

When I reopen the valve, the gauge still reads 16 PSI, is the gas still pushing against the walls with a positive force? A positive force of 16 PSI? Y/N
No.
The positive force is now expanding out into the opening and releasing the push against the walls, negatively.
Also the psi is no longer 16psi. It would be a continuous drop because it is not positively pushing against the gauge piston.

correct
in conventional physics
the net positive force (FORCE = PRESSURE/ AREA) is acting in the direction of the opening.
the general pressure (PRESSURE = FORCE x AREA) inside the container is the amount of force the container requires to keep all that gas from breaching any one part of its skin.

and any number of value greater than zero, is a POSTIVE.
the DIRECTION of RATE of DECREASE may be dropping (calculus), but it is still a POSTIVE value.

again
if you had 100$ in your bank.
and every day you took out 10$.
you are not BROKE until the 10th day (9th if you want to play games).

Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #1878 on: November 16, 2019, 12:58:10 AM »
i like how you deleted what you said from my reply...
are you trump?
you realize this is all text that can be easily verified?
i've not changed a single word - just added some bolding.

What have I deleted?

clearly jackB is correct that you are clearly purposefully trying to be dishonest.

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Stash

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Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets CAN fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #1879 on: November 16, 2019, 02:01:47 AM »
After 32 hours the gauge reads 16 PSI, I close the valve. The gauge reads 16 PSI. Is the gas now pushing against the walls with a positive force?
 A positive force of 16 PSI? Y/N
Yes.

When I reopen the valve, the gauge still reads 16 PSI, is the gas still pushing against the walls with a positive force? A positive force of 16 PSI? Y/N
No.
The positive force is now expanding out into the opening and releasing the push against the walls, negatively.
Also the psi is no longer 16psi. It would be a continuous drop because it is not positively pushing against the gauge piston.

So the 15.999 PSI, or whatever, right after I open the valve, is no longer pressing on the gauge, yet the gauge is reading 15.999 PSI? Y/N

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JackBlack

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Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #1880 on: November 16, 2019, 02:15:34 AM »
As you like analogies, here is one for you:
You are in a swimming pool, near the wall (so it is within reach), and you want to get away from the wall.
Do you A - Push away from the wall, i.e. stretching your arms/feet out away from the wall and applying a force in the direction away from the wall, or
B - Push towards the wall, i.e. stretching your arms/feet out towards the wall, possibly even pushing into the wall.
That's not how mine works. This is why you're getting yourself mixed up.
Really?
So when you are in a swimming pool, if you push your arms forwards, you push forwards?

I'll put your analogy right from my side.
You mean you will avoid yet another very simple question which shows your model to be a pile of nonsense.

How about you stop with all the nonsense and try to answer these very simple questions.
Push against the wall to move away from it, or do you push in the opposite direction?

At the front a massive hole opens up and out goes the first person who simply decompresses because that wall is not there anymore to keep the person compressed.
Nope. You can't just simply move like that.
You need something to make you move. So what does?
What force is there to make the person move?

I'm showing that rockets do not work as we are told and certainly do not work in a so called space vacuum.
You are only showing your complete inability to very simple questions which show you are completely wrong.
You have been completely unable to show a single problem with the currently accepted model.
All you have provided to try to show that rockets can't work in space is your delusional model built upon wild speculation with absolutely no supporting evidence and mountains of contradictions in the model.

So no, you are not showing the rockets don't work in a vacuum.
You aren't even coming close.

If you want to have any chance of doing so, you need to be able to answer these very simple questions:
What is the gas pushing against to allow it to move?
How does the gas magically know to stop pushing outwards in all directions and instead only push towards the opening?
How does the gas move towards the opening if it is pushing towards it, meaning it would be pushed away?

Until you answer them, you have nothing and have no chance at all of refuting the reality of rockets working in a vacuum.

What is the gas pushing against to allow it to move?
Gas.
Again, that means the gas is capable of providing resistance to motion and thus the rocket can push off it as well.
That means rockets work in space.

Quote from: JackBlack
How does the gas magically know to stop pushing outwards in all directions and instead only push towards the opening?
Decompression.
That is a useless word, not an answer.
How does it know to only push towards the front. What mechanism is there?
The only sane thing to happen is for the gas to continue to push outwards in ALL directions.
You need to provide a justification for why it only pushes in one direction.

Quote from: JackBlack
How does the gas move towards the opening if it is pushing towards it, meaning it would be pushed away?
It's expanding against a weaker compressive force in the opposite direction (atmosphere).
If it was just expanding, it would expand outwards in all directions, not magically move in one direction. So again, you have no answer.
This also completely ignores the actual issue, how does it actually move forwards if it is pushing forwards.

The only way for it to move forwards is for it to push backwards so a reactionary force pushes it forwards.

What I do see is a failure of you and others to understand what I put forward.
Stop with the insults.
We understand quite well.
We just realise that it is pure nonsense.
Realising your nonsense is nonsense doesn't mean we don't understand.
Pointing out your contradictions doesn't mean we don't understand.
You repeatedly telling us we don't understand rather than actually addressing the issues is far indicative of you not being able to defend your model at all, and us almost certainly being correct that your model is a pile of self-contradictory garbage.

The positive force is now expanding out into the opening and releasing the push against the walls, negatively.
i.e. it is still applying a pressure, it is just less than before.

You seem to be using a completely different meaning of the word.

How about this analogy:
Someone is pushing you against a wall, applying a significant force.
Then they slowly ease up on the force, gradually reducing the force they are applying to you.
Are they still pushing you?
The actual containers and external atmospheric pressure are the deciding factors.
Only if there are interactions between the container and the air due to them pushing against each other.

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sceptimatic

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Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets CAN fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #1881 on: November 16, 2019, 02:18:53 AM »

if you had 100$ in your bank.
and every day you took out 10$.
you are not BROKE until the 10th day (9th if you want to play games).
No you're not but you are negatively draining your bank account, not positively adding to it or even holding a set $100.

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sceptimatic

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Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #1882 on: November 16, 2019, 02:20:05 AM »
i like how you deleted what you said from my reply...
are you trump?
you realize this is all text that can be easily verified?
i've not changed a single word - just added some bolding.

What have I deleted?

clearly jackB is correct that you are clearly purposefully trying to be dishonest.
Then don't deal with me if you have nothing else to say other than that.
This doesn't enhance your argument, it diminishes it.

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sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 30061
Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets CAN fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #1883 on: November 16, 2019, 02:22:13 AM »
After 32 hours the gauge reads 16 PSI, I close the valve. The gauge reads 16 PSI. Is the gas now pushing against the walls with a positive force?
 A positive force of 16 PSI? Y/N
Yes.

When I reopen the valve, the gauge still reads 16 PSI, is the gas still pushing against the walls with a positive force? A positive force of 16 PSI? Y/N
No.
The positive force is now expanding out into the opening and releasing the push against the walls, negatively.
Also the psi is no longer 16psi. It would be a continuous drop because it is not positively pushing against the gauge piston.

So the 15.999 PSI, or whatever, right after I open the valve, is no longer pressing on the gauge, yet the gauge is reading 15.999 PSI? Y/N
The gauge isn't reading 15,999 psi, it's reading nothing definitively set whilst the valve is open.

*

sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 30061
Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #1884 on: November 16, 2019, 02:27:33 AM »

How about this analogy:
Someone is pushing you against a wall, applying a significant force.
Then they slowly ease up on the force, gradually reducing the force they are applying to you.
Are they still pushing you?
Nope. They're resisting your expansion in to their back.

*

Stash

  • Ethical Stash
  • 13398
  • I am car!
Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets CAN fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #1885 on: November 16, 2019, 02:36:23 AM »
After 32 hours the gauge reads 16 PSI, I close the valve. The gauge reads 16 PSI. Is the gas now pushing against the walls with a positive force?
 A positive force of 16 PSI? Y/N
Yes.

When I reopen the valve, the gauge still reads 16 PSI, is the gas still pushing against the walls with a positive force? A positive force of 16 PSI? Y/N
No.
The positive force is now expanding out into the opening and releasing the push against the walls, negatively.
Also the psi is no longer 16psi. It would be a continuous drop because it is not positively pushing against the gauge piston.

So the 15.999 PSI, or whatever, right after I open the valve, is no longer pressing on the gauge, yet the gauge is reading 15.999 PSI? Y/N
The gauge isn't reading 15,999 psi, it's reading nothing definitively set whilst the valve is open.

The gauge has been steadily and predictably going down 1 PSI every 2 hours from 32PSI when I opened the valve down to 16 when I closed it 32 hours later. You're saying that all during that 32 hours, the gauge was "reading nothing definitively" yet it was reading a 1 PSI drop every 2 hours? Y/N

Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #1886 on: November 16, 2019, 03:01:11 AM »
i like how you deleted what you said from my reply...
are you trump?
you realize this is all text that can be easily verified?
i've not changed a single word - just added some bolding.

What have I deleted?

clearly jackB is correct that you are clearly purposefully trying to be dishonest.
Then don't deal with me if you have nothing else to say other than that.
This doesn't enhance your argument, it diminishes it.

really?
because you deleted it twice.

Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets CAN fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #1887 on: November 16, 2019, 03:02:01 AM »

if you had 100$ in your bank.
and every day you took out 10$.
you are not BROKE until the 10th day (9th if you want to play games).
No you're not but you are negatively draining your bank account, not positively adding to it or even holding a set $100.

i like how you deleted the part showing you're wrong - a negative "rate" is not the same as a negative "value/ state".
« Last Edit: November 16, 2019, 05:12:37 AM by Themightykabool »

Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #1888 on: November 16, 2019, 03:02:54 AM »
So its either sponges that dont move
Or its people that move.
Or its both?
Whicj is it?
Read back, it's all been explained.

I did
You said sponge people are moving off a bus.
No I didn't.
Go and read and absorb what I did say.

i like how you deleted what you said from my reply...
are you trump?
you realize this is all text that can be easily verified?
i've not changed a single word - just added some bolding.







To give you a simple analogy (and take it as that and do not use it as an argument) we'll imagine a bus that is sealed off and inside it are people all crammed in to such an extent they have to fight to stop themselves being crushed.
Imagine if they could survive being crushed smaller.
Ok so now you can imagine that...if the bus was sealed at each end, the crush would be even from back to front. Even pressure hitting both sealed off exits and also everyone squashed against the side walls and ceiling of that bus, plus floor.

Ok we both know this as being a sealed container of pressure, right, so let's see what happens.

Outside of that bus are a crowd of people who are body to body and slightly compressing into each other all around That bus and also stood on top of each other and also on top of the bus with people stood on top of them...and so on.
Under the bus there would be a few laid under it but not being squashed more than the rest because the bus wheels hold back the dense mass on it by using a solid ground.

Ok, so what we know is, the people inside the bus are itching to decompress. They're trying to break open the bus at its weakest point (assume windowless...let's not add in issues).
Suddenly the back door is breached and the compressed people in that bus start to decompress against the looser compression of the external crowd and manage to push some out of the way which compresses them into the people behind them.
However, inside the bus, the people behind the first out can also decompress as they push and are pushed into the first.
The one behind does the same.
By this time it will be noted that the bus is moving in the opposite direction and all the work done at the first decompression is filled by the falling people from above who fill the void that the first decompressed person created by compressing the crowd back...which as you know were less compressed at first.

Now this keeps happening because there's so many people crammed into the bus and it becomes each person expanding out and expanded into the back of.
As a little time goes on, the expansion inside the bus will become less and less as more people are pushed out.

Now here's the key.

The people at the other end of the bus have had to wait their turn to fully expand because all the way down that bus  became a slight expansion of each person from large (front) to extremely small (back).

Everybody expands at the front and is followed by those behind in a natural decompression.

By the time most are out, there's still some people still left inside the bus, all of who are simply equalised to the people outside of it.
There becomes no more movement. of the bus.


Read this carefully, seriously.
Absorb what's been said because you're getting closer to understanding, whether you end up agreeing or not.

i can requote it.
for alllll to see.
you clearly deleted it.
sponge people expand but also leave the bus.
these are YOUR words

Re: HAPPY HOAX ANNIVERSARY!!! (Rockets can't fly in a vacuum)
« Reply #1889 on: November 16, 2019, 03:03:25 AM »
So its either sponges that dont move
Or its people that move.
Or its both?
Whicj is it?
Read back, it's all been explained.

I did
You said sponge people are moving off a bus.
No I didn't.
Go and read and absorb what I did say.

i like how you deleted what you said from my reply...
are you trump?
you realize this is all text that can be easily verified?
i've not changed a single word - just added some bolding.







To give you a simple analogy (and take it as that and do not use it as an argument) we'll imagine a bus that is sealed off and inside it are people all crammed in to such an extent they have to fight to stop themselves being crushed.
Imagine if they could survive being crushed smaller.
Ok so now you can imagine that...if the bus was sealed at each end, the crush would be even from back to front. Even pressure hitting both sealed off exits and also everyone squashed against the side walls and ceiling of that bus, plus floor.

Ok we both know this as being a sealed container of pressure, right, so let's see what happens.

Outside of that bus are a crowd of people who are body to body and slightly compressing into each other all around That bus and also stood on top of each other and also on top of the bus with people stood on top of them...and so on.
Under the bus there would be a few laid under it but not being squashed more than the rest because the bus wheels hold back the dense mass on it by using a solid ground.

Ok, so what we know is, the people inside the bus are itching to decompress. They're trying to break open the bus at its weakest point (assume windowless...let's not add in issues).
Suddenly the back door is breached and the compressed people in that bus start to decompress against the looser compression of the external crowd and manage to push some out of the way which compresses them into the people behind them.
However, inside the bus, the people behind the first out can also decompress as they push and are pushed into the first.
The one behind does the same.
By this time it will be noted that the bus is moving in the opposite direction and all the work done at the first decompression is filled by the falling people from above who fill the void that the first decompressed person created by compressing the crowd back...which as you know were less compressed at first.

Now this keeps happening because there's so many people crammed into the bus and it becomes each person expanding out and expanded into the back of.
As a little time goes on, the expansion inside the bus will become less and less as more people are pushed out.

Now here's the key.

The people at the other end of the bus have had to wait their turn to fully expand because all the way down that bus  became a slight expansion of each person from large (front) to extremely small (back).

Everybody expands at the front and is followed by those behind in a natural decompression.

By the time most are out, there's still some people still left inside the bus, all of who are simply equalised to the people outside of it.
There becomes no more movement. of the bus.


Read this carefully, seriously.
Absorb what's been said because you're getting closer to understanding, whether you end up agreeing or not.










i can requote it.
for alllll to see.
you clearly deleted it.
sponge people expand but also leave the bus.
these are YOUR words
« Last Edit: November 16, 2019, 03:06:28 AM by Themightykabool »