Immigration/Border Policies (Arizona Bill)

Arizona's bill orders immigrants to carry their alien registration documents at all times and requires police to question people if there's reason to suspect they're in the United States illegally.

Isn't this fucked fucked up?


http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/04/21/arizona.immigration.bill/index.html

Arizona's bill orders immigrants to carry their alien registration documents at all times and requires police to question people if there's reason to suspect they're in the United States illegally.

Isn't this fucked fucked up?


http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/04/21/arizona.immigration.bill/index.html

OH NO! They're requiring people to carry documentation!!!

Good. All states should do that. Fuck the illegals. PROFILING IS GOOD.

this is such a bad idea. I am guessing it will be knocked down by the supreme court if it passes.

They did the same thing in South Africa during Apartheid.

Quote from: Sean on April 21, 2010, 04:57:54 PM

Arizona's bill orders immigrants to carry their alien registration documents at all times and requires police to question people if there's reason to suspect they're in the United States illegally.

Isn't this fucked fucked up?


http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/04/21/arizona.immigration.bill/index.html

OH NO! They're requiring people to carry documentation!!!

Good. All states should do that. Fuck the illegals. PROFILING IS GOOD.

Protip: This allows police officers to pull over specific ethnicity and detain them if they do not have passports/birth certificates on their person (without any evidence, just off the street). They will not be allowed to contact family while being detained. The law open up shittons of room for police abuse, and this being Arizona (home of Joe Arpaio), it will be abused.

It will be challenged, brought to the Supreme Court, and defeated.

Also, Racial profiling is institutionalized racism, pure and simple. Interesting to see that you're throwing in with their kind.

I'm from Arizona and I 100% support this bill.

Quote from: theonlydann on April 21, 2010, 05:41:09 PM

Quote from: Sean on April 21, 2010, 04:57:54 PM

Arizona's bill orders immigrants to carry their alien registration documents at all times and requires police to question people if there's reason to suspect they're in the United States illegally.

Isn't this fucked fucked up?


http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/04/21/arizona.immigration.bill/index.html

OH NO! They're requiring people to carry documentation!!!

Good. All states should do that. Fuck the illegals. PROFILING IS GOOD.

Protip: This allows police officers to pull over specific ethnicity and detain them if they do not have passports/birth certificates on their person (without any evidence, just off the street). They will not be allowed to contact family while being detained. The law open up shittons of room for police abuse, and this being Arizona (home of Joe Arpaio), it will be abused.

It will be challenged, brought to the Supreme Court, and defeated.

Also, Racial profiling is institutionalized racism, pure and simple. Interesting to see that you're throwing in with their kind.

In high crime areas where one particular race is committing the majority of the crimes... i am all for profiling. Sorry, i live it. Apparently Detroit is a third world city and ranks in danger with a lot of awful places.

ALso, I am not one of the minorities, so at this moment it doesnt hurt me. But im sure one day it will Boo hoo. Also, White people should be racially profiled if they work anywhere near money. Especially banks.

Quote from: theonlydann on April 21, 2010, 05:41:09 PM

Quote from: Sean on April 21, 2010, 04:57:54 PM

Arizona's bill orders immigrants to carry their alien registration documents at all times and requires police to question people if there's reason to suspect they're in the United States illegally.

Isn't this fucked fucked up?


http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/04/21/arizona.immigration.bill/index.html

OH NO! They're requiring people to carry documentation!!!

Good. All states should do that. Fuck the illegals. PROFILING IS GOOD.

Protip: This allows police officers to pull over specific ethnicity and detain them if they do not have passports/birth certificates on their person (without any evidence, just off the street). They will not be allowed to contact family while being detained. The law open up shittons of room for police abuse, and this being Arizona (home of Joe Arpaio), it will be abused.

It will be challenged, brought to the Supreme Court, and defeated.

Also, Racial profiling is institutionalized racism, pure and simple. Interesting to see that you're throwing in with their kind.

No, it says if you are pulled over and you cannot provide documents proving you're allowed to be here you can be taken in for further questioning to prove you're allowed to be here. Learn your shit please.

Quote from: Myjafjallajokul on April 21, 2010, 08:52:48 PM

Quote from: theonlydann on April 21, 2010, 05:41:09 PM

Quote from: Sean on April 21, 2010, 04:57:54 PM

Arizona's bill orders immigrants to carry their alien registration documents at all times and requires police to question people if there's reason to suspect they're in the United States illegally.

Isn't this fucked fucked up?


http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/04/21/arizona.immigration.bill/index.html

OH NO! They're requiring people to carry documentation!!!

Good. All states should do that. Fuck the illegals. PROFILING IS GOOD.

Protip: This allows police officers to pull over specific ethnicity and detain them if they do not have passports/birth certificates on their person (without any evidence, just off the street). They will not be allowed to contact family while being detained. The law open up shittons of room for police abuse, and this being Arizona (home of Joe Arpaio), it will be abused.

It will be challenged, brought to the Supreme Court, and defeated.

Also, Racial profiling is institutionalized racism, pure and simple. Interesting to see that you're throwing in with their kind.

No, it says if you are pulled over and you cannot provide documents proving you're allowed to be here you can be taken in for further questioning to prove you're allowed to be here. Learn your shit please.

Are you going to be carrying these documents at all times?

Whether or not a law has a good result or bad result is irrelevant.  The court must strike down any law that is unconstitutional regardless.  An unconstitutional law that has a good result must be struck down the same way as a constitutional law that has a bad result must be upheld.

It is debatable where the power lies to regulate imigration (Federal or State), certainly there are explicit powers that reside only with the Federal government, the rest however, as per the 10th amendment belong with the state (unless explicitly prohibited), the court should make clear what those powers are.  What is not debatable is this:  The forth amendment is not nor has it ever been outcome dependent, if there is no warrant, obtained under probable cause sworn by oath or affirmation by the presuant officer, it is not a reasonable search.

The few exceptions I know about due to court precedents are as follows:

1.  The forth amendment only applies to places where the person has a reasonable expectation of privacy, it explicitly states that persons, papers, houses and effects are such areas.  However a back yard field that you own, or your truck bed, are not private.

2.  An officer witnessing a crime may permit him to conduct a search.  For example, if you open your car window and it smells like Bob Marley's ass, or if he witnessed you buy some crack and place it in your pocket, he can search you.  This is also known as the plain sight rule.

3.  Search as a result of a lawful arrest.  If you are arrested lawfully, the officer may conduct a search of you and the area in which you were arrested.  I somewhat disagree with this one.  If you are pulled out of your car and arrested for drunk driving, I agree they should search your person, but there is no imediate reason to search the car without a warrant.

4.  Pat down, this is for the officers safety, to ensure that somebody is not carrying a weapon that could hurt the officer.

No, it says if you are pulled over and you cannot provide documents proving you're allowed to be here you can be taken in for further questioning to prove you're allowed to be here. Learn your shit please.

I could be wrong, but from what I've heard, all immigrants must carry around their papers. Police can stop anyone "suspected" of being an illegal immigrant. What does this mean? What does an illegal immigrant look like? Also, if a someone is here legally, but doesn't have their papers, they are detained. On top of this, they must pay fees, as well as a fine.

Quote from: sillyrob on April 25, 2010, 01:42:16 AM

No, it says if you are pulled over and you cannot provide documents proving you're allowed to be here you can be taken in for further questioning to prove you're allowed to be here. Learn your shit please.

I could be wrong, but from what I've heard, all immigrants must carry around their papers. Police can stop anyone "suspected" of being an illegal immigrant. What does this mean? What does an illegal immigrant look like? Also, if a someone is here legally, but doesn't have their papers, they are detained. On top of this, they must pay fees, as well as a fine.

Well... if they do it like they are starting to do in high crime areas in Detroit... i think they'll be ok... Stop people for ANY violation, from jaywalking to having a crack in your windshield to anything.  Now, in Detroit, since they're only trying to catch black peoplecriminals...they don't have the is he isnt he legal question... but i guess if you pulled over a car load of mexicans, and none of them had any ID, and they couldn't speak english... it'd be super cool to take em in on suspicion. Throw some pot in the cars window if they wanna make REAL sure they're not breaking any harassment laws.

They did the same thing in South Africa during Apartheid.

I believe the same(or a similar) thing occurred in Germany in the 30's.

Hispanic immigrants aren't as worrisome as black people violent criminals.

I'm iffy on it.
To be honest, one side says "Good, let's sort this mess out".
On the other hand this is getting close to police state and forcing everyone to have serial numbers on their forehead.

It's interesting to note that the support for this bill is by the same people who don't want the government to interfere in the lives of Americans which includes forcing them to carry around ID and present it whenever someone asks for it for something stupid.

If we were to take this law and make it apply to everyone (ie. you all need to carry around your SS card) there would be an uproar.

Everyone is supposed to carry identification, unless you're a little kid.

Everyone is supposed to carry identification, unless you're a little kid.

Right, can't police ask you for you id regardless?

They can. The difference here is that they will probably have a legal reason to detain you if you don't.

Regardless of it being effective or not, it will take a toll on Arizona's economy.

Everyone is supposed to carry identification, unless you're a little kid.

Not as far as I know.
You CAN get a non-driving ID card but you aren't required to have one.  Had an ex-GF who was 21 before I finally convinced her to get her non-driving ID card.

I actually checked around on the web.. cuz i thought people were legally required to carry some sort of ID with them at all times... but they arent. Or at least not from anything i found.

Dear President Obama:
I'm planning to move my family and extended family into Mexico for my health, and I would like to ask you to assist me.

We're planning to simply walk across the border from the U.S. Into Mexico, and we'll need your help to make a few arrangements.

We plan to skip all the legal stuff like visas, passports, immigration quotas and laws.

I'm sure they handle those things the same way you do here. So, would you mind telling your buddy, President Calderon, that I'm on my way over?

Please let him know that I will be expectin g the following:

1. Free medical care for my entire family.

2. English-speaking government bureaucrats for all services I might need, whether I use them or not.

3. Please print all Mexican government forms in English.

4. I want my grandkids to be taught Spanish by English-speaking (bi-lingual) teachers.

5. Tell their schools they need to include classes on American culture and history.

6. I want my grandkids to see the American flag on one of the flag poles at their school.

7. Please plan to feed my grandkids at school for both breakfast and lunch.

8. I will need a local Mexican driver's license so I can get easy access to government services.

9. I do plan to get a car and drive in Mexico , but, I don't plan to purchase car insurance, and I probably won't make any special effort to learn local traffic laws.

10. In case one of the Mexican police officers does not get the memo from their president to leave me alone, please be sure that every patrol car has at least one English-speaking officer.

11. I plan to fly the U.S. Flag from my house top, put U S. Flag decals on my car, and have a gigantic celebration on July 4th. I do not want any complaints or negative comments from the locals.

12. I would also like to have a nice job without paying any taxes, or have any labor or tax laws enforced on any business I may start.

13. Please have the president tell all the Mexican people to be extremely nice and never say critical things about me or my family, or about the strain we might place on their economy.

14. I want to receive free food stamps.

15. Naturally, I'll expect free rent subsidies.

16. I'll need Income tax credits so that although I don't pay Mexican Taxes, I'll receive money from the government.

17. Please arrange it so that the Mexican Gov't pays $4,500 to help me buy a new car.

18. Oh yes, I almost forgot, please enroll me free into the Mexican Social Security program so that I'll get a monthly income in retirement.

I know this is an easy request because you already do all these things for all his people who walk over to the U.S. From Mexico . I am sure that President Calderon won't mind returning the favor if you ask him nicely.

Thank you so much for your kind help.

[Teabagger copypasta]

No-one's suggesting that illegal immigrants are a good thing. What we are trying to say is that open racism is not the best policy to identify and deport them.

http://www.azfamily.com/video/featured-videos/Man-says-he-was-racially-targeted-forced-to-provide-birth-certificate-91769419.html

Quote from: sillyrob on April 25, 2010, 01:42:16 AM

Quote from: Myjafjallajokul on April 21, 2010, 08:52:48 PM

Quote from: theonlydann on April 21, 2010, 05:41:09 PM

Quote from: Sean on April 21, 2010, 04:57:54 PM

Arizona's bill orders immigrants to carry their alien registration documents at all times and requires police to question people if there's reason to suspect they're in the United States illegally.

Isn't this fucked fucked up?


http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/04/21/arizona.immigration.bill/index.html

OH NO! They're requiring people to carry documentation!!!

Good. All states should do that. Fuck the illegals. PROFILING IS GOOD.

Protip: This allows police officers to pull over specific ethnicity and detain them if they do not have passports/birth certificates on their person (without any evidence, just off the street). They will not be allowed to contact family while being detained. The law open up shittons of room for police abuse, and this being Arizona (home of Joe Arpaio), it will be abused.

It will be challenged, brought to the Supreme Court, and defeated.

Also, Racial profiling is institutionalized racism, pure and simple. Interesting to see that you're throwing in with their kind.

No, it says if you are pulled over and you cannot provide documents proving you're allowed to be here you can be taken in for further questioning to prove you're allowed to be here. Learn your shit please.

Are you going to be carrying these documents at all times?

I do at all times. I always have proof of who I am. I need it to buy alcohol, go into bars, drive around, ect. It's NOT FUCKING HARD to prove who you are. If you cant, you're illegal. Go back to Mexico thank you. Not you, them.

I have to say this: If you're not from a state that borders Mexico, and you don't have to worry about some illegal asshole stealing your identity to get a job, shut the fuck up. 500,000 illegals live here taking away from tax payers money, stealing from hard working Americans. Arizona is like 6 BILLION in debt and I bet you that illegals don't help that. To add to that, our economy isn't great, so remove 500,000 illegals and give those jobs to REAL citizens and I'm sure our unemployment would go down. You might think that I hate Mexicans, and I don't. I've had friends who were awesome who were legal. I have respect for people who can actually go through the process. But fuck the assholes who break the law.

Quote from: theonlydann on April 25, 2010, 08:50:39 PM

[Teabagger copypasta]

No-one's suggesting that illegal immigrants are a good thing. What we are trying to say is that open racism is not the best policy to identify and deport them.

http://www.azfamily.com/video/featured-videos/Man-says-he-was-racially-targeted-forced-to-provide-birth-certificate-91769419.html

Fucking Nazi, trying to sensor my racism... Stop trying to repress me repressing others.

Also, i came up with the entire list all by myself! I am very creative.

Edit: Just read your link. NICE! Apparently, the law is irrelevant, as ICE is already doing it. I think maybe we should have all immigrants wear some sort of "badge" or something at all times so we can quickly identify them so it will not be racial profiling. 

I do at all times. I always have proof of who I am. I need it to buy alcohol, go into bars, drive around, ect. It's NOT FUCKING HARD to prove who you are. If you cant, you're illegal. Go back to Mexico thank you. Not you, them.

So, you would be fine with getting arrested for leaving your ID at home?

Quote from: Myjafjallajokul on April 25, 2010, 08:59:41 PM

Quote from: theonlydann on April 25, 2010, 08:50:39 PM

[Teabagger copypasta]

No-one's suggesting that illegal immigrants are a good thing. What we are trying to say is that open racism is not the best policy to identify and deport them.

http://www.azfamily.com/video/featured-videos/Man-says-he-was-racially-targeted-forced-to-provide-birth-certificate-91769419.html

Fucking Nazi, trying to sensor my racism... Stop trying to repress me repressing others.

Also, i came up with the entire list all by myself! I am very creative.

Edit: Just read your link. NICE! Apparently, the law is irrelevant, as ICE is already doing it. I think maybe we should have all immigrants wear some sort of "badge" or something at all times so we can quickly identify them so it will not be racial profiling.  

Surely you're trolling now.




The problem I have with this is that it institutes a system where bystanders are selected by race, and then considered guilty until proven otherwise. That's right, you have to prove that you're not guilty: your "right to remain silent" will result in you being arrested and possibly deported.

Of course, this law will not affect you, because you're white. So what do you care.

Oh, you mean they've done something like this before? How did it work out?

I resent being called white... I am part American Indian, and that is how I identified myself on the census form.

I agree though... that this law, if it stands, would have to be implemented so carefully that it would probably end up doing more harm than good from a Police standpoint. Real Meessican criminals are going to be able to claim racial profiling every time they are arrested.

Now, if people commiting crimes are made to prove they are citizens... i have no problem with it. If you are driving, and don't have your license on you... i don't think it i s a huge jump to think they COULD be an illegal immigrant if they are in an area full of illegal immigrants. I dunno. Amnesty is gay and rewards people for being criminals, going after people based on race alone is not a great precedent to set... and doing nothing is an awful idea. It's really a for shit situation. I wish mexico would just try to get its fucking economy going so we can see how they treat White illegals looking for work.