The Flat Earth Society

Flat Earth Discussion Boards => Flat Earth Debate => Topic started by: johnnyorbital on June 26, 2016, 02:01:26 AM

Title: questions need answering
Post by: johnnyorbital on June 26, 2016, 02:01:26 AM
new joiner - first post

I'm sick of getting conflicting information from places like Facebook and YouTube, flat earthers don't seem to agree with each other's theories

so I'm here for a more detailed debate

I've been looking into the flat earth theory for around 3yrs, in detail for over 12 months, I'm no beginner

I've firstly got a few basic questions just to see how your answers compare with the rest of the internet

then I will move on to my findings

1 - after reading the welcome post I have an observation: if a ball falling back to earth is caused by us moving upwards, smoke should travel downwards
(the usual reply from MOST flat earthers is "we're not travelling upwards", then I ask what causes the ball to fall, then I'm usually attacked, blocked or ignored, it's really difficult sometimes to get a direct answer)

2 - do you guys use angular sun rays as evidence of a localised sun?

3 - I get conflicting answers for a lunar eclipse, what is the current flat earth explanation?

4 - I also get conflicting answers for meteors, again, what is the current flat earth explanation?

I've MANY more points, I just want to get a feel for the people and the extent of the research in this forum

thanks
Title: Re: questions need answering
Post by: sceptimatic on June 26, 2016, 02:30:45 AM
You will always get conflicting answers and you will always be attacked for even thinking alternate thoughts against mainstream indoctrination. You surely know this.

The mere fact that you are going to get conflicting answers to most, if not all of what you ponder, should tell you that you have to follow your own route in terms of what appears (for the time being) as more logical and then adding mere snippets of info from the thoughts of those who also ponder logical outcomes.

You may never know all the answers to anything, but by doing it in a methodical fashion, starting with the most basic of basic and not allowing over-complication of things to cloud your thoughts, then you have a very realistic chance of at least gaining a more rational insight into what everything is and why.

It's much better than blindly following the nonsense that is told to us as a globe model, plus all the trimmings to go with it.
It appears that you at least dropped that one into the nonsense bin. That's your massive start to nibbling away at the lies, mis-info, dis-info and naivety, to get to some semblance of truth.

Dropping all things magical is a good start. By magical I mean the stuff you're told by skin and bone people like yourself, who have absolutely  no physical proof as to what they put on a plate for the population of gobblers to gobble up and not question why or what was in the feeding of the food for thought.
Title: Re: questions need answering
Post by: jordannv2 on June 26, 2016, 02:31:39 AM
I don't mean any insult but those FE believers will probably make up some biased stuff like Lunas in the Moon creating light because they are luminescent, Interesting right? oh and they also believe that the planets are all made out of paper foam so NASA can continue the conspiracy.

I'd rather not even argue with them.
Title: Re: questions need answering
Post by: sceptimatic on June 26, 2016, 02:35:22 AM
I don't mean any insult but those FE believers will probably make up some biased stuff like Lunas in the Moon creating light because they are luminescent, Interesting right? oh and they also believe that the planets are all made out of paper foam so NASA can continue the conspiracy.

I'd rather not even argue with them.
And yet weirdly people are almost bullied into accepting invisible space forces and Earth forces that cater for the nonsense spewed out, yet are impossible to ever prove, other than bullies screaming out that they are proved and you better believe they are or you're going to be ridiculed or placed in a nut house if you don't.
Title: Re: questions need answering
Post by: johnnyorbital on June 26, 2016, 02:44:26 AM
You will always get conflicting answers and you will always be attacked for even thinking alternate thoughts against mainstream indoctrination. You surely know this.

The mere fact that you are going to get conflicting answers to most, if not all of what you ponder, should tell you that you have to follow your own route in terms of what appears (for the time being) as more logical and then adding mere snippets of info from the thoughts of those who also ponder logical outcomes.

You may never know all the answers to anything, but by doing it in a methodical fashion, starting with the most basic of basic and not allowing over-complication of things to cloud your thoughts, then you have a very realistic chance of at least gaining a more rational insight into what everything is and why.

It's much better than blindly following the nonsense that is told to us as a globe model, plus all the trimmings to go with it.
It appears that you at least dropped that one into the nonsense bin. That's your massive start to nibbling away at the lies, mis-info, dis-info and naivety, to get to some semblance of truth.

Dropping all things magical is a good start. By magical I mean the stuff you're told by skin and bone people like yourself, who have absolutely  no physical proof as to what they put on a plate for the population of gobblers to gobble up and not question why or what was in the feeding of the food for thought.

I'm not sure if you missed my point, I said I'm attacked and blocked by flat earthers, not globe earthers

I also would like confirmation of points 2, 3 and 4

thanks
Title: Re: questions need answering
Post by: sceptimatic on June 26, 2016, 02:51:56 AM
You will always get conflicting answers and you will always be attacked for even thinking alternate thoughts against mainstream indoctrination. You surely know this.

The mere fact that you are going to get conflicting answers to most, if not all of what you ponder, should tell you that you have to follow your own route in terms of what appears (for the time being) as more logical and then adding mere snippets of info from the thoughts of those who also ponder logical outcomes.

You may never know all the answers to anything, but by doing it in a methodical fashion, starting with the most basic of basic and not allowing over-complication of things to cloud your thoughts, then you have a very realistic chance of at least gaining a more rational insight into what everything is and why.

It's much better than blindly following the nonsense that is told to us as a globe model, plus all the trimmings to go with it.
It appears that you at least dropped that one into the nonsense bin. That's your massive start to nibbling away at the lies, mis-info, dis-info and naivety, to get to some semblance of truth.

Dropping all things magical is a good start. By magical I mean the stuff you're told by skin and bone people like yourself, who have absolutely  no physical proof as to what they put on a plate for the population of gobblers to gobble up and not question why or what was in the feeding of the food for thought.

I'm not sure if you missed my point, I said I'm attacked and blocked by flat earthers, not globe earthers

I also would like confirmation of points 2, 3 and 4

thanks
I'm attacked by flat Earther's as well. I have been since I joined. Mind you, I'm not exactly a flat Earther in the same vein as those who run this forum.
They believe (or pretend to) that UA (as you are aware) is responsible for effects on a flat Earth simply shooting up and never reaching or surpassing the so called speed of light.
I do not subscribe to any of that, but I won't knock it because that's their prerogative.
The fact that I don't follow it; nor you, singles you out for digs and ignores from flat Earther theorists and attacked by globalists.

As for your points, I'll leave that to whoever jumps in.
Title: Re: questions need answering
Post by: Kami on June 26, 2016, 02:52:41 AM
1.: although it is mentioned in the wiki, most FE'ers here do not believe in universal acceleration. It would not cause smoke to move downwards though, as air has a higher density. To put it short: Things under UA would behave exactly like they would under gravity, this is einstein's equivalence principle.

2.: some try, but this gets debunked quite quickly

3.: sandokhan (among others, I don't know who else) claim the existence of a "shadow object" which moves in front of the sun or the moon and blocks the light out. There has not been any evidence for this object, though.

4.: Some claim they are a conspiracy. Most FE'ers seem to avoid this topic.

Hope I could help.
Title: Re: questions need answering
Post by: johnnyorbital on June 26, 2016, 03:04:57 AM
1.: although it is mentioned in the wiki, most FE'ers here do not believe in universal acceleration. It would not cause smoke to move downwards though, as air has a higher density. To put it short: Things under UA would behave exactly like they would under gravity, this is einstein's equivalence principle.

2.: some try, but this gets debunked quite quickly

3.: sandokhan (among others, I don't know who else) claim the existence of a "shadow object" which moves in front of the sun or the moon and blocks the light out. There has not been any evidence for this object, though.

4.: Some claim they are a conspiracy. Most FE'ers seem to avoid this topic.

Hope I could help.

yes thanks, point 1 was just an off the cuff observation anyway

2. I see a lot of people claiming that crespicular sun rays are evidence of a localised sun, a LOT of people.. but like you said, it's very easily explained and anyone can do it within a few minutes

3. ahh, the slightly transparent moon that blocks out the light of the moon slightly.. simple answer, that extra, slightly transparent celestial body would block out other stars, it NEVER does, therefore it doesn't exist (plus its not on the flat earth model)

4. yeah meteors seem to be a swear word, ive had 3 answers, I'm not giving anything away though, I'd like to hear it from someone

thanks for taking the time to answer respectfully, appreciated
Title: Re: questions need answering
Post by: Woody on June 26, 2016, 03:24:56 AM
scepti you make it sound like only RE's attack people for their beliefs.

I can suggest a little experiment you can do.

Go to a physics,engineering and FE forums forum and tell people you want evidence the Earth is a sphere or flat.  You will get some name calling and also answers.  Depending on the site and moderators your topic may be locked for being deemed ridiculous.

I think what you will find is the blocking, deleting,locking, and name calling will be about the same.

http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=67336.0

The above is what I see typically on other forums dedicated to science.  Someone asks a question relating to FE and there are a few responses with at least one response being condescending.

People are people.  As a group they behave pretty much the same the world over.

Title: Re: questions need answering
Post by: johnnyorbital on June 26, 2016, 03:55:44 AM
does anyone else have any input?
Title: Re: questions need answering
Post by: Woody on June 26, 2016, 05:23:27 AM
does anyone else have any input?

Questions like yours have been asked a lot, have thread about it in the first couple of pages, or covered by the wiki. I would not be surprised if some FE's are just tired of answering these questions.

1. universal acceleration(UA) is not believed by every FE.  If the Earth was accelerating upwards it would be hard to tell the difference between that a gravity.  Stuff would behave the same.

2. A lot of people do.

3. Shadow object is the best explanation I have seen.

Not here, but I have seen it explained that the moon is hollow with a opaque and transparent surface that rotates.

Weather patterns have also been mentioned.

Bioluminescent life is another thing I have seen mentioned.

4. They are faked

They are pieces of the dome that fell off.

Title: Re: questions need answering
Post by: johnnyorbital on June 26, 2016, 06:53:06 AM
does anyone else have any input?

Questions like yours have been asked a lot, have thread about it in the first couple of pages, or covered by the wiki. I would not be surprised if some FE's are just tired of answering these questions.

1. universal acceleration(UA) is not believed by every FE.  If the Earth was accelerating upwards it would be hard to tell the difference between that a gravity.  Stuff would behave the same.

2. A lot of people do.

3. Shadow object is the best explanation I have seen.

Not here, but I have seen it explained that the moon is hollow with a opaque and transparent surface that rotates.

Weather patterns have also been mentioned.

Bioluminescent life is another thing I have seen mentioned.

4. They are faked

They are pieces of the dome that fell off.

they can't be tired of answering those questions, they're irrefutably disproven

1. I don't normally discuss gravity but the travelling upwards theory doesn't work due to it having enough force to put a ball back down but not enough to move smoke, smoke is lighter than a ball, therefore WOULD be affected also

2. angular sun rays you can disprove yourself, go to a beach, see the sun shining on the sea, get on a boat, try to reach the shine
OR
get a friend on a boat, you stay on the beach, you watch him sail past the shine YOU see, then ask him to point a camera towards shore and take a picture, the shine YOU see BETWEEN you and him will NOT be visible on the photo, this is simply because from HIS perspective, it will be behind him
OR
at the beach, travel 10mins up the coast, the sun will seem to follow you, travel back the other way, it will still follow you, it's not localised, the above methods ALL prove it without question

3. the shadow object would without question dim the lights of other stars, but it doesn't, so the dark object theory simply doesn't work, again, it's also not part of the flat earth model

4. they exist, you can see them with your own eyes, if it was part of a GLASS dome, they wouldn't land as rock.. meteors disprove the dome

like I said, I've looked into this for a long time, flat earthers don't agree with each other, depending on how you present evidence, meteors are usually described as man-made, I've only ever heard 3 people use the "god made" firmament breaking off theory, it's quite a new one, demeaning the work of god, as is saying the universe doesn't exist

please note, I'm not offensive, I'm not abusive, I've researched this for around 3yrs, I'm just challenging the proofs flat earthers use as they don't stand up to testing

thanks
Title: Re: questions need answering
Post by: FLAT_IS_TRUTH on June 26, 2016, 06:53:51 AM
Your questions have baffled many FEers, but not me. For a very long time, it has been impossible for FEers to answer these questions, due to flaws in the standard FE model. Luckily, I have created a model which I call the Celestial Ocean Theory, which perfectly explains these anomalies in a Flat Earth universe.

1. Smoke does not travel downwards on the Flat Earth because the atmosphere is also accelerating with the smoke.
If you place a candle on a rocket moving upwards, the smoke will go downwards due to air resistance - however, when the candle is still, it is accelerating at the exact same speed as the atmosphere around it.

2. Crepuscular rays are evidence that the Earth is indeed flat. As of yet, the Round Earthers have no explanation for how crepuscular rays work - I do. Crepuscular rays exist because the Sun is only a few thousand miles above the Earth, which causes a visible differences in the angle of sunlight.

3. The Shadow Object causes both Lunar and Solar eclipses. This Shadow object is translucent, but its particles are arranged in oscillate in a way which does allow light of a particular oscillation (i.e Sunlight and Moonlight) to penetrate it. The existence of this object can be proven by looking at declassified and leaked NASA documents, as the government has for a very long time attempted to hide the object's existence.

4. Meteors are simply clouds of space debris that are kept in orbit by aether currents, in oscillating orbits. The oscillation of the orbits of these meteors sometime cause them to draw nearer the Sun, and the heat from the Sun disturbs the aether currents (Heated air rises faster than cold air - the same principles apply to aether.) As a result, the meteors are flung off course. Sometimes, they are flung towards the plane of the Earth, and when the enter the atmoplane they burn up due to friction.
Title: Re: questions need answering
Post by: johnnyorbital on June 26, 2016, 07:04:34 AM
Your questions have baffled many FEers, but not me. For a very long time, it has been impossible for FEers to answer these questions, due to flaws in the standard FE model. Luckily, I have created a model which I call the Celestial Ocean Theory, which perfectly explains these anomalies in a Flat Earth universe.

1. Smoke does not travel downwards on the Flat Earth because the atmosphere is also accelerating with the smoke.
If you place a candle on a rocket moving upwards, the smoke will go downwards due to air resistance - however, when the candle is still, it is accelerating at the exact same speed as the atmosphere around it.

2. Crepuscular rays are evidence that the Earth is indeed flat. As of yet, the Round Earthers have no explanation for how crepuscular rays work - I do. Crepuscular rays exist because the Sun is only a few thousand miles above the Earth, which causes a visible differences in the angle of sunlight.

3. The Shadow Object causes both Lunar and Solar eclipses. This Shadow object is translucent, but its particles are arranged in oscillate in a way which does allow light of a particular oscillation (i.e Sunlight and Moonlight) to penetrate it. The existence of this object can be proven by looking at declassified and leaked NASA documents, as the government has for a very long time attempted to hide the object's existence.

4. Meteors are simply clouds of space debris that are kept in orbit by aether currents, in oscillating orbits. The oscillation of the orbits of these meteors sometime cause them to draw nearer the Sun, and the heat from the Sun disturbs the aether currents (Heated air rises faster than cold air - the same principles apply to aether.) As a result, the meteors are flung off course. Sometimes, they are flung towards the plane of the Earth, and when the enter the atmoplane they burn up due to friction.

even your created model doesn't work

1. explain how it doesn't affect the smoke but does affect a ball

2. I've thoroughly explained the sun rays, they ONLY work on a globe model (see my explanation above your post)

3. the shadow object WOULD dim lights of other stars as it passes in front of them (stars are suns remember), end of story

4. I'll leave your meteor theory alone as you admit you created it to fit

I would prefer evidence with claims, I never just guess, I don't appreciate people doing the same

thanks for your reply, but as you see, under practical and visual testing, most of the flat earth proofs simply don't work

thanks
Title: Re: questions need answering
Post by: Kami on June 26, 2016, 07:07:05 AM
Your questions have baffled many FEers, but not me. For a very long time, it has been impossible for FEers to answer these questions, due to flaws in the standard FE model. Luckily, I have created a model which I call the Celestial Ocean Theory, which perfectly explains these anomalies in a Flat Earth universe.

2. Crepuscular rays are evidence that the Earth is indeed flat. As of yet, the Round Earthers have no explanation for how crepuscular rays work - I do. Crepuscular rays exist because the Sun is only a few thousand miles above the Earth, which causes a visible differences in the angle of sunlight.
Crepuscular rays are neither evidence for round nor for flat earth. They prove nothing and have been explained several times. Round Earthers do indeed have explanation for these.
Quote
3. The Shadow Object causes both Lunar and Solar eclipses. This Shadow object is translucent, but its particles are arranged in oscillate in a way which does allow light of a particular oscillation (i.e Sunlight and Moonlight) to penetrate it. The existence of this object can be proven by looking at declassified and leaked NASA documents, as the government has for a very long time attempted to hide the object's existence.
A link to these documents would help your cause, right now it is just thin air.
Title: Re: questions need answering
Post by: johnnyorbital on June 26, 2016, 07:09:29 AM
Your questions have baffled many FEers, but not me. For a very long time, it has been impossible for FEers to answer these questions, due to flaws in the standard FE model. Luckily, I have created a model which I call the Celestial Ocean Theory, which perfectly explains these anomalies in a Flat Earth universe.

2. Crepuscular rays are evidence that the Earth is indeed flat. As of yet, the Round Earthers have no explanation for how crepuscular rays work - I do. Crepuscular rays exist because the Sun is only a few thousand miles above the Earth, which causes a visible differences in the angle of sunlight.
Crepuscular rays are neither evidence for round nor for flat earth. They prove nothing and have been explained several times. Round Earthers do indeed have explanation for these.
Quote
3. The Shadow Object causes both Lunar and Solar eclipses. This Shadow object is translucent, but its particles are arranged in oscillate in a way which does allow light of a particular oscillation (i.e Sunlight and Moonlight) to penetrate it. The existence of this object can be proven by looking at declassified and leaked NASA documents, as the government has for a very long time attempted to hide the object's existence.
A link to these documents would help your cause, right now it is just thin air.

correct, the sun's position does not prove either shape, but my explanation proves it's nowhere near where the FE's claim it is

the lunar eclipse proves our shape
Title: Re: questions need answering
Post by: boydster on June 26, 2016, 07:20:41 AM
they can't be tired of answering those questions, they're irrefutably disproven

1. I don't normally discuss gravity but the travelling upwards theory doesn't work due to it having enough force to put a ball back down but not enough to move smoke, smoke is lighter than a ball, therefore WOULD be affected also

2. angular sun rays you can disprove yourself, go to a beach, see the sun shining on the sea, get on a boat, try to reach the shine
OR
get a friend on a boat, you stay on the beach, you watch him sail past the shine YOU see, then ask him to point a camera towards shore and take a picture, the shine YOU see BETWEEN you and him will NOT be visible on the photo, this is simply because from HIS perspective, it will be behind him
OR
at the beach, travel 10mins up the coast, the sun will seem to follow you, travel back the other way, it will still follow you, it's not localised, the above methods ALL prove it without question

3. the shadow object would without question dim the lights of other stars, but it doesn't, so the dark object theory simply doesn't work, again, it's also not part of the flat earth model

4. they exist, you can see them with your own eyes, if it was part of a GLASS dome, they wouldn't land as rock.. meteors disprove the dome

like I said, I've looked into this for a long time, flat earthers don't agree with each other, depending on how you present evidence, meteors are usually described as man-made, I've only ever heard 3 people use the "god made" firmament breaking off theory, it's quite a new one, demeaning the work of god, as is saying the universe doesn't exist

please note, I'm not offensive, I'm not abusive, I've researched this for around 3yrs, I'm just challenging the proofs flat earthers use as they don't stand up to testing

thanks

1: You are going backwards on this point. As was already explained, smoke and bowling balls would all behave exactly the same on an accelerating Earth. Your smoke example doesn't disprove UA. There are much better arguments for why UA is not a viable replacement for gravity, like the difference in gravity experienced at different points on the Earth. Smoke, though? That won't cut the mustard.

2: A few people on this forum are trying to defend using crepuscular rays as a way of showing the sun is positioned just slightly above the clouds. For a group that champions using "perspective effects" as an explanation for a great number of things (light striking the bottom of clouds near sunrise/sunset, for example), ignoring perspective effects when discussing crepuscular rays would be a pretty dishonest starting position, so I don't think it is a mainstream argument.

3: Other than shadow object and moonshramp, I'm really not sure how eclipses are to be explained. Not that either of those arguments seems to merit being taken seriously. I'm just saying, I haven't heard a good explanation and those 2 seem to be the ones that are mentioned the most.

4: I've sure I have seen someone suggest that they are literally shooting stars. I wish I could quote it here for reference but I can't remember who said it now. Maybe someone else will have a better memory than me and help out.




You seem to think that you have all the answers, though, unless I'm misreading your posts. So I'm curious why you are baiting other people to post wrong answers? Why not just share your thoughts for discussion?
Title: Re: questions need answering
Post by: johnnyorbital on June 26, 2016, 07:37:43 AM
they can't be tired of answering those questions, they're irrefutably disproven

1. I don't normally discuss gravity but the travelling upwards theory doesn't work due to it having enough force to put a ball back down but not enough to move smoke, smoke is lighter than a ball, therefore WOULD be affected also

2. angular sun rays you can disprove yourself, go to a beach, see the sun shining on the sea, get on a boat, try to reach the shine
OR
get a friend on a boat, you stay on the beach, you watch him sail past the shine YOU see, then ask him to point a camera towards shore and take a picture, the shine YOU see BETWEEN you and him will NOT be visible on the photo, this is simply because from HIS perspective, it will be behind him
OR
at the beach, travel 10mins up the coast, the sun will seem to follow you, travel back the other way, it will still follow you, it's not localised, the above methods ALL prove it without question

3. the shadow object would without question dim the lights of other stars, but it doesn't, so the dark object theory simply doesn't work, again, it's also not part of the flat earth model

4. they exist, you can see them with your own eyes, if it was part of a GLASS dome, they wouldn't land as rock.. meteors disprove the dome

like I said, I've looked into this for a long time, flat earthers don't agree with each other, depending on how you present evidence, meteors are usually described as man-made, I've only ever heard 3 people use the "god made" firmament breaking off theory, it's quite a new one, demeaning the work of god, as is saying the universe doesn't exist

please note, I'm not offensive, I'm not abusive, I've researched this for around 3yrs, I'm just challenging the proofs flat earthers use as they don't stand up to testing

thanks

1: You are going backwards on this point. As was already explained, smoke and bowling balls would all behave exactly the same on an accelerating Earth. Your smoke example doesn't disprove UA. There are much better arguments for why UA is not a viable replacement for gravity, like the difference in gravity experienced at different points on the Earth. Smoke, though? That won't cut the mustard.

2: A few people on this forum are trying to defend using crepuscular rays as a way of showing the sun is positioned just slightly above the clouds. For a group that champions using "perspective effects" as an explanation for a great number of things (light striking the bottom of clouds near sunrise/sunset, for example), ignoring perspective effects when discussing crepuscular rays would be a pretty dishonest starting position, so I don't think it is a mainstream argument.

3: Other than shadow object and moonshramp, I'm really not sure how eclipses are to be explained. Not that either of those arguments seems to merit being taken seriously. I'm just saying, I haven't heard a good explanation and those 2 seem to be the ones that are mentioned the most.

4: I've sure I have seen someone suggest that they are literally shooting stars. I wish I could quote it here for reference but I can't remember who said it now. Maybe someone else will have a better memory than me and help out.




You seem to think that you have all the answers, though, unless I'm misreading your posts. So I'm curious why you are baiting other people to post wrong answers? Why not just share your thoughts for discussion?

I'll tell you why, because if you throw loads of info at once, the main points are ignored, it's very hard to get a direct answer from FE's so this is how I've learned to question them

I don't use YouTube, I don't post links or use photos as they're unnecessary

I've done my research for a long time, so yes, I do have MOST of the answers, that's what research does, that's what experiments do, they give you answers

it seems to me that a lot of FE's are in this for ulterior motives.. when I was starting out and someone showed me a picture of the angular sun rays, admittedly I was intrigued, yes, it geometrically looks directly above the clouds, so I tested it, and it failed
BUT
when I explain this to FE's, I'm normally accused of being brainwashed and closed minded, I'm then usually blocked so I can no longer reply

so yes, I'll ask a question, await an answer (as they vary so much), then explain thoroughly my evidences

I'm the first to admit when I don't know something or if I'm wrong
Title: Re: questions need answering
Post by: johnnyorbital on June 26, 2016, 07:44:31 AM
to be honest, with the information I've got, I don't expect to be allowed on here for long, cognitive dissonance is very high amongst flat earthers.. you never see globe guys blocking people or refusing to answer

as far as I can see, the flat earth model has been proven wrong without question, I'm unsure as to why the highest up have not informed their "followers" of the evidence contradicting the whole theory, I'd also like to know who decides on accepted theories and why they're not cross examining evidence

thanks
Title: Re: questions need answering
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on June 26, 2016, 10:43:54 AM
Shalom and welcome to the trenches OP.
Title: Re: questions need answering
Post by: johnnyorbital on June 26, 2016, 10:45:22 AM
Shalom and welcome to the trenches OP.

thank you very kindly :)
Title: Re: questions need answering
Post by: Space Cowgirl on June 26, 2016, 01:10:53 PM
to be honest, with the information I've got, I don't expect to be allowed on here for long, cognitive dissonance is very high amongst flat earthers.. you never see globe guys blocking people or refusing to answer

as far as I can see, the flat earth model has been proven wrong without question, I'm unsure as to why the highest up have not informed their "followers" of the evidence contradicting the whole theory, I'd also like to know who decides on accepted theories and why they're not cross examining evidence

thanks

Dude, there's very little that will get you kicked off this forum for more than a day or two. Srsly, just read the fucking rules.  You may think you are the first person to arrive here with all the answers, but you are sadly mistaken.

The Flat Earth Society is a society of free thinkers. Even if our fearless leader logged onto the forum and told us to give it up, we wouldn't be expected to obey. There's no central FE govt deciding which theories are accepted, this is not the way of zeteticism.
Title: Re: questions need answering
Post by: johnnyorbital on June 26, 2016, 01:26:41 PM
to be honest, with the information I've got, I don't expect to be allowed on here for long, cognitive dissonance is very high amongst flat earthers.. you never see globe guys blocking people or refusing to answer

as far as I can see, the flat earth model has been proven wrong without question, I'm unsure as to why the highest up have not informed their "followers" of the evidence contradicting the whole theory, I'd also like to know who decides on accepted theories and why they're not cross examining evidence

thanks

Dude, there's very little that will get you kicked off this forum for more than a day or two. Srsly, just read the fucking rules.  You may think you are the first person to arrive here with all the answers, but you are sadly mistaken.

The Flat Earth Society is a society of free thinkers. Even if our fearless leader logged onto the forum and told us to give it up, we wouldn't be expected to obey. There's no central FE govt deciding which theories are accepted, this is not the way of zeteticism.

so if I'm not the first with the answers then why do people still believe it?

the evidence has been given, I don't understand

I'm most definitely a free thinker, I was told about the flat earth theory so I did my research, research brings answers, evidence cannot just be ignored
Title: Re: questions need answering
Post by: JimmyTheCrab on June 26, 2016, 01:35:13 PM
The Flat Earth Society is a society of free thinkers.
Well, you're not free to think the earth is a globe. :P
Title: Re: questions need answering
Post by: Space Cowgirl on June 26, 2016, 03:01:19 PM
The Flat Earth Society is a society of free thinkers.
Well, you're not free to think the earth is a globe. :P

You are, though! No one has kicked you off the forum for being a crabby round earther.
Title: Re: questions need answering
Post by: daftpunk on June 26, 2016, 03:30:17 PM
A variant of Godwin's Law states that as an internet discussion increases in length, the probability of someone mentioning Hitler approaches 1.

Now feels like a good time to do so.

Round Earthers like to stifle free speech like Hitler did.
Title: Re: questions need answering
Post by: johnnyorbital on June 26, 2016, 03:36:07 PM
A variant of Godwin's Law states that as an internet discussion increases in length, the probability of someone mentioning Hitler approaches 1.

Now feels like a good time to do so.

Round Earthers like to stifle free speech like Hitler did.

not that it's of any relevance to my op, but in what way?

I've never witnessed anything like that

any input on my post?
Title: Re: questions need answering
Post by: Bullwinkle on June 26, 2016, 03:40:05 PM
I'm sick of getting conflicting information from places like Facebook and YouTube


How did they respond to your complaints?
Title: Re: questions need answering
Post by: boydster on June 26, 2016, 03:51:06 PM
Hitler already? Why? Just because? I think most of the REers on this forum are happy to exercise free speech and happy with FEers exercise free speech in return. There are definitely some ass hats, but they are mostly trolls and don't really deserve much attention.

I'm sick of getting conflicting information from places like Facebook and YouTube

How did they respond to your complaints?

If what I've seen from YouTube comments in the past is any indication, I would have to assume they responded with great patience and understanding.
Title: Re: questions need answering
Post by: Mikey T. on June 26, 2016, 03:51:38 PM
No model of Flat Earth can be experimentally proven to be anywhere near as accurate as the Spherical model.  Most of Flat Earth claims are rather fanciful and rely on you thinking there is some large worldwide conspiracy that has the power to hide all the evidence of Flat Earth.  They have the power to make you think the stars look like they are moving a certain way across the sky, just to hide their "agenda".  They have the power to fake video evidence so well and at a speed unfathomable to any mere mortal could, not even the best CGI facilities in the world could create at the pace that the evil NASA people put out.  See how silly that seems.  No?  Well if you can stomach the all powerful conspiracy masters, by all means drink the koolaid.
If it is not able to be experimentally proven or disproven, then it is not worth debating. 
Title: Re: questions need answering
Post by: johnnyorbital on June 26, 2016, 03:53:57 PM
I'm sick of getting conflicting information from places like Facebook and YouTube


How did they respond to your complaints?

who? the flat earthers? the same as always.. with cognitive dissonance

I had one guy on Facebook say that a photo of the ISS passing in front of the moon was fake, so I gave him a challenge; I gave him a photo that I took, and asked him to spot what was fake on it.. he chose some elastic bands on the photo.. I told him the photo was unedited, he said he KNEW it was fake.. It was a photo from my camera roll, I even screenshotted it IN my camera roll as proof

I told him he blatantly didn't have the skills to claim photos are fake, he said 'do the math' then blocked me

flat earthers have lost all ability to admit they've worked ANYTHING out wrong, even when the evidence is staring them in the face
Title: Re: questions need answering
Post by: Space Cowgirl on June 26, 2016, 04:06:46 PM
Hitler already? Why?

Hitler was a round earther.  :P
Title: Re: questions need answering
Post by: JimmyTheCrab on June 26, 2016, 04:12:56 PM
The Flat Earth Society is a society of free thinkers.
Well, you're not free to think the earth is a globe. :P

You are, though! No one has kicked you off the forum for being a crabby round earther.
I'm not a member of the Flat Earth Society.  I am crabby though, that much is true.
Title: Re: questions need answering
Post by: Bullwinkle on June 26, 2016, 04:18:08 PM
Hitler already? Why? Just because? I think most of the REers on this forum are happy to exercise free speech and happy with FEers exercise free speech in return. There are definitely some ass hats, but they are mostly trolls and don't really deserve much attention.

I'm sick of getting conflicting information from places like Facebook and YouTube

How did they respond to your complaints?

If what I've seen from YouTube comments in the past is any indication, I would have to assume they responded with great patience and understanding.


 ;D
Title: Re: questions need answering
Post by: johnnyorbital on June 26, 2016, 04:25:05 PM
I didn't get an answer to why people still believe this theory after seeing the evidence disproving it?

You don't need nasa, you don't need videos or photos, you can see for yourself by watching a lunar eclipse, that's OUR shadow, the fact we can predict them happening is the nail in the coffin.. or by the constellation positions above the horizon in different hemispheres, and the fact you can't see the north star from deep in the southern hemisphere

if that's not enough, almost every flat earth 'proof' fails at testing too

this isn't opinion, it's testable, visual, irrefutable evidence
Title: Re: questions need answering
Post by: boydster on June 26, 2016, 04:36:01 PM
Hitler already? Why?

Hitler was a round earther.  :P

So was Ghandi. :P
Title: Re: questions need answering
Post by: Space Cowgirl on June 26, 2016, 04:42:51 PM
Hitler already? Why?

Hitler was a round earther.  :P

So was Ghandi. :P

He was penpals with Hitler!
Title: Re: questions need answering
Post by: johnnyorbital on June 26, 2016, 05:03:38 PM
can you guys please take your chit chat elsewhere
Title: Re: questions need answering
Post by: boydster on June 26, 2016, 05:04:29 PM
Hitler already? Why?

Hitler was a round earther.  :P

So was Ghandi. :P

He was penpals with Hitler!

Sure, just long enough to encourage him not to be a douchebag. Unfortunately, history.
Title: Re: questions need answering
Post by: Space Cowgirl on June 26, 2016, 05:08:34 PM
Hitler already? Why?

Hitler was a round earther.  :P

So was Ghandi. :P

He was penpals with Hitler!

Sure, just long enough to encourage him not to be a douchebag. Unfortunately, history.

Alright, I know we are making Johnorbital cry with our chit chat, but http://www.huffingtonpost.com/irene-monroe/the-gandhi-none-of-us-kne_b_842941.html It's best not to have any heroes  :'(

Title: Re: questions need answering
Post by: Conker on June 26, 2016, 05:12:19 PM
Hitler already? Why?

Hitler was a round earther.  :P

So was Ghandi. :P

He was penpals with Hitler!

Sure, just long enough to encourage him not to be a douchebag. Unfortunately, history.

Alright, I know we are making Johnorbital cry with our chit chat, but http://www.huffingtonpost.com/irene-monroe/the-gandhi-none-of-us-kne_b_842941.html It's best not to have any heroes  :'(

A hero is never a man, but an ideal. Who someone was is irrelevant if the idea he means is important to us. I would have hated Ernesto Guevara the man. Yet El Che is an ideal that many people think worth keeping.
Title: Re: questions need answering
Post by: Bullwinkle on June 26, 2016, 05:13:56 PM
can you guys please take your chit chat elsewhere


Like to Facebook or YouTube?
Title: Re: questions need answering
Post by: boydster on June 26, 2016, 05:14:47 PM
can you guys please take your chit chat elsewhere

Shoot. Sorry, I thought I was on a public forum. Must have gotten lost somewhere... ???

Anyway, I just took the time to read the "Dear Friend" letter, which was basically asking Hitler not to be a jerkface but in a nice way. Honestly, it was new to me so I won't pretend to be an expert on the special relationship they may or may not have had. Thanks for the link, SCG!
Title: Re: questions need answering
Post by: johnnyorbital on June 26, 2016, 05:33:33 PM
can you guys please take your chit chat elsewhere

Shoot. Sorry, I thought I was on a public forum. Must have gotten lost somewhere... ???

Anyway, I just took the time to read the "Dear Friend" letter, which was basically asking Hitler not to be a jerkface but in a nice way. Honestly, it was new to me so I won't pretend to be an expert on the special relationship they may or may not have had. Thanks for the link, SCG!

yes you must have got lost with the forum clearly stating to stay on topic in the thread

Facebook and YouTube don't request you stay on topic so yeah why not?

is this what happens when someone comes in with more than 'I've seen the curve' or 'there's photos of earth'? you try to drown the 'evidence' in a sea of comments?

its not really much better than Facebook or YouTube if you're just going to ignore questions and just use people's threads as somewhere to chat
Title: Re: questions need answering
Post by: Space Cowgirl on June 26, 2016, 05:41:37 PM
You haven't posted any evidence.  Also, you seem to be mad at the FES because you were treated badly by some flat earthers on youtube. This isn't youtube.
Title: Re: questions need answering
Post by: johnnyorbital on June 26, 2016, 05:46:14 PM
You haven't posted any evidence.  Also, you seem to be mad at the FES because you were treated badly by some flat earthers on youtube. This isn't youtube.

I'm not mad at anyone, I said I get conflicting information, stop twisting my words

also, I've given absolute evidence, testable, visual, irrefutable evidence

I'm not sure what else you need to be honest
Title: Re: questions need answering
Post by: Bullwinkle on June 26, 2016, 06:12:24 PM
I've given absolute evidence, testable, visual, irrefutable evidence


You have posted vague, ambiguous, rambling thoughts and ideas
poorly scripted and ending with a question mark.

Narrow it down to one question and leave out the condescension.


Title: Re: questions need answering
Post by: johnnyorbital on June 26, 2016, 06:26:43 PM
I've given absolute evidence, testable, visual, irrefutable evidence


You have posted vague, ambiguous, rambling thoughts and ideas
poorly scripted and ending with a question mark.

Narrow it down to one question and leave out the condescension.

I've not, I've posted thorough explanations.. but feel free to point out any 'non-vague' responses I've received

as for one question at a time, that's fine by me

why, when the flat earth explanations for a lunar eclipse don't stand up to testing, do we see a round shadow during a lunar eclipse? (see my previous explanation on this thread as to how the FE lunar eclipse model cannot work)
Title: Re: questions need answering
Post by: boydster on June 26, 2016, 06:40:18 PM
is this what happens when someone comes in with more than 'I've seen the curve' or 'there's photos of earth'? you try to drown the 'evidence' in a sea of comments?

its not really much better than Facebook or YouTube if you're just going to ignore questions and just use people's threads as somewhere to chat

Maybe you haven't had a lot of conversations. Sometimes they diverge from and then return to the main topic. Heck, I learned something today about the relationship between Hitler and Gandhi. Maybe you have me confused with someone who thinks the Earth is flat, though. I'm certainly not trying to drown out any intelligent discussion about why the Earth is round. To that point, I answered your questions. All four of them, and you have posed no new ones. Sorry you came here looking for a battle. If only someone could decide whose thoughts should be stifled.

And holy cow. Evidence against your cloud comment was presented, acknowledged by you, then you went right back to it it like was a valid point like two posts later. Who is drowning out evidence again? Sheesh.

I'm totally looking forward to the evidence you have to offer. I've seen allusions to things that might be evidence, but nothing really explicit. I'll get right out of your way.  :-X
Title: Re: questions need answering
Post by: Bullwinkle on June 26, 2016, 06:49:27 PM
I've given absolute evidence, testable, visual, irrefutable evidence


You have posted vague, ambiguous, rambling thoughts and ideas
poorly scripted and ending with a question mark.

Narrow it down to one question and leave out the condescension.

I've not, I've posted thorough explanations.. but feel free to point out any 'non-vague' responses I've received

as for one question at a time, that's fine by me

why, when the flat earth explanations for a lunar eclipse don't stand up to testing, do we see a round shadow during a lunar eclipse? (see my previous explanation on this thread as to how the FE lunar eclipse model cannot work)


So, we only see a round shadow during a lunar eclipse when
the flat earth explanations for a lunar eclipse don't stand up to testing?

Is that your question?



Title: Re: questions need answering
Post by: johnnyorbital on June 26, 2016, 07:04:14 PM
is this what happens when someone comes in with more than 'I've seen the curve' or 'there's photos of earth'? you try to drown the 'evidence' in a sea of comments?

its not really much better than Facebook or YouTube if you're just going to ignore questions and just use people's threads as somewhere to chat

Maybe you haven't had a lot of conversations. Sometimes they diverge from and then return to the main topic. Heck, I learned something today about the relationship between Hitler and Gandhi. Maybe you have me confused with someone who thinks the Earth is flat, though. I'm certainly not trying to drown out any intelligent discussion about why the Earth is round. To that point, I answered your questions. All four of them, and you have posed no new ones. Sorry you came here looking for a battle. If only someone could decide whose thoughts should be stifled.

And holy cow. Evidence against your cloud comment was presented, acknowledged by you, then you went right back to it it like was a valid point like two posts later. Who is drowning out evidence again? Sheesh.

I'm totally looking forward to the evidence you have to offer. I've seen allusions to things that might be evidence, but nothing really explicit. I'll get right out of your way.  :-X

cloud comment? you mean me saying it doesn't prove the shape of the earth? well it doesn't, there's no possible way it could, I quite clearly stated that the flat earth explanation for where the sun is located is very wrong.. I gave 3 easy ways to test it

I'm not sure how you interpret that as hiding anything
Title: Re: questions need answering
Post by: johnnyorbital on June 26, 2016, 07:06:24 PM
I've given absolute evidence, testable, visual, irrefutable evidence


You have posted vague, ambiguous, rambling thoughts and ideas
poorly scripted and ending with a question mark.

Narrow it down to one question and leave out the condescension.

I've not, I've posted thorough explanations.. but feel free to point out any 'non-vague' responses I've received

as for one question at a time, that's fine by me

why, when the flat earth explanations for a lunar eclipse don't stand up to testing, do we see a round shadow during a lunar eclipse? (see my previous explanation on this thread as to how the FE lunar eclipse model cannot work)


So, we only see a round shadow during a lunar eclipse when
the flat earth explanations for a lunar eclipse don't stand up to testing?

Is that your question?

well you've now re worded it a bit so that it no longer makes sense but if you go off what I originally wrote then yes, that's my first question
Title: Re: questions need answering
Post by: johnnyorbital on June 26, 2016, 07:07:37 PM
its 3am, I'll reply when I wake up
Title: Re: questions need answering
Post by: boydster on June 26, 2016, 07:14:24 PM
cloud comment? you mean me saying it doesn't prove the shape of the earth? well it doesn't, there's no possible way it could, I quite clearly stated that the flat earth explanation for where the sun is located is very wrong.. I gave 3 easy ways to test it

I'm not sure how you interpret that as hiding anything

Apologies. I meant smoke. My mistake. Smoke should not travel downwards because of UA. You initially said it should (see OP), then appeared to agree that it shouldn't (Reply 7), then went right back to stating that it should and the fact that it doesn't is somehow a valid refutation of UA (Reply 11).
Title: Re: questions need answering
Post by: johnnyorbital on June 27, 2016, 12:07:49 AM
cloud comment? you mean me saying it doesn't prove the shape of the earth? well it doesn't, there's no possible way it could, I quite clearly stated that the flat earth explanation for where the sun is located is very wrong.. I gave 3 easy ways to test it

I'm not sure how you interpret that as hiding anything

Apologies. I meant smoke. My mistake. Smoke should not travel downwards because of UA. You initially said it should (see OP), then appeared to agree that it shouldn't (Reply 7), then went right back to stating that it should and the fact that it doesn't is somehow a valid refutation of UA (Reply 11).

2 points

firstly, to be fair, you are twisting things slightly, I was quite clear that my comment about the smoke was an off the cuff remark.. I don't normally get into the gravity debate

second, someone else mentioned it, I wasn't going to dismiss what they said so I replied to it with a question

and to prove I wasn't using it as a valid refutation of UA I'll say this:
I said if the force of us moving upwards can bring a ball down but not smoke, then in theory, the gravity pulling the ball down should really be strong enough to pull the smoke down too

again, I don't normally discuss gravity as it's a difficult subject to comprehend for anyone

I hope that shows my position and willingness to admit when I don't know something
Title: Re: questions need answering
Post by: sceptimatic on June 27, 2016, 01:19:24 AM
scepti you make it sound like only RE's attack people for their beliefs.

I can suggest a little experiment you can do.

Go to a physics,engineering and FE forums forum and tell people you want evidence the Earth is a sphere or flat.  You will get some name calling and also answers.  Depending on the site and moderators your topic may be locked for being deemed ridiculous.

I think what you will find is the blocking, deleting,locking, and name calling will be about the same.

http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=67336.0

The above is what I see typically on other forums dedicated to science.  Someone asks a question relating to FE and there are a few responses with at least one response being condescending.

People are people.  As a group they behave pretty much the same the world over.
I agree.
Title: Re: questions need answering
Post by: sceptimatic on June 27, 2016, 01:27:20 AM
I'm sick of getting conflicting information from places like Facebook and YouTube


How did they respond to your complaints?

who? the flat earthers? the same as always.. with cognitive dissonance

I had one guy on Facebook say that a photo of the ISS passing in front of the moon was fake, so I gave him a challenge; I gave him a photo that I took, and asked him to spot what was fake on it.. he chose some elastic bands on the photo.. I told him the photo was unedited, he said he KNEW it was fake.. It was a photo from my camera roll, I even screenshotted it IN my camera roll as proof

I told him he blatantly didn't have the skills to claim photos are fake, he said 'do the math' then blocked me

flat earthers have lost all ability to admit they've worked ANYTHING out wrong, even when the evidence is staring them in the face
No evidence is staring anyone in the face. The only evidence that is put forward is the supposed evidence that people like you seem to think is evidence and expect free thinkers to simply accept it, sim ply because you come here with a full on indoctrinated mind, yet pretend you do not.
10 a penny..
Title: Re: questions need answering
Post by: johnnyorbital on June 27, 2016, 01:48:44 AM
I'm sick of getting conflicting information from places like Facebook and YouTube


How did they respond to your complaints?

who? the flat earthers? the same as always.. with cognitive dissonance

I had one guy on Facebook say that a photo of the ISS passing in front of the moon was fake, so I gave him a challenge; I gave him a photo that I took, and asked him to spot what was fake on it.. he chose some elastic bands on the photo.. I told him the photo was unedited, he said he KNEW it was fake.. It was a photo from my camera roll, I even screenshotted it IN my camera roll as proof

I told him he blatantly didn't have the skills to claim photos are fake, he said 'do the math' then blocked me

flat earthers have lost all ability to admit they've worked ANYTHING out wrong, even when the evidence is staring them in the face
No evidence is staring anyone in the face. The only evidence that is put forward is the supposed evidence that people like you seem to think is evidence and expect free thinkers to simply accept it, sim ply because you come here with a full on indoctrinated mind, yet pretend you do not.
10 a penny..

so talk to me, discuss my points with me, tell me which ones you think I'm wrong about

that's why I'm here
Title: Re: questions need answering
Post by: daftpunk on June 27, 2016, 02:58:38 AM
I think this shows that mentioning Hitler, even in a meta-discussion (whereby you specifically mention the fact that you're mentioning Hitler, and make it clear that there is no real reason to do so), can derail a thread completely, and help avert the conversation away from any difficult-to-answer points that were brought up previously.

This could be a useful tactic to employ in the future.
Title: Re: questions need answering
Post by: johnnyorbital on June 27, 2016, 03:26:33 AM
I think this shows that mentioning Hitler, even in a meta-discussion (whereby you specifically mention the fact that you're mentioning Hitler, and make it clear that there is no real reason to do so), can derail a thread completely, and help avert the conversation away from any difficult-to-answer points that were brought up previously.

This could be a useful tactic to employ in the future.

in the future? its a very common tactic used, it happens all the time, this is probably why its one of the 11 main rules of this forum.. I'm sure the more learned FE's are not wanting the guys with no real knowledge of the subject making it seem like there's no answers by resorting to derailment tactics

i'm not saying that was entirely your intention, but i've been doing this a long time, its a very common thing to happen, so i'm sure you can appreciate me assuming that was what you were doing, thats why I politely asked you to take the chit chat elsewhere and only asked the admin to remove the totally unrelated posts (which they've not done for some reason)

i wouldn't say 'if you don't know, don't comment', but feel free to discuss it with me, like I've said previously, I'm here because I expected a more thorough debate than on places like YouTube and Facebook, up to now its been quite refreshing that people are actually attempting to answer, no one's got annoyed, it is better.. to an extent
Title: Re: questions need answering
Post by: johnnyorbital on June 27, 2016, 04:42:05 AM
Quote
2. angular sun rays you can disprove yourself, go to a beach, see the sun shining on the sea, get on a boat, try to reach the shine
OR
get a friend on a boat, you stay on the beach, you watch him sail past the shine YOU see, then ask him to point a camera towards shore and take a picture, the shine YOU see BETWEEN you and him will NOT be visible on the photo, this is simply because from HIS perspective, it will be behind him
OR
at the beach, travel 10mins up the coast, the sun will seem to follow you, travel back the other way, it will still follow you, it's not localised, the above methods ALL prove it without question

3. the shadow object would without question dim the lights of other stars, but it doesn't, so the dark object theory simply doesn't work, again, it's also not part of the flat earth model

4. they exist, you can see them with your own eyes, if it was part of a GLASS dome, they wouldn't land as rock.. meteors disprove the dome

does anyone disagree with any of this? if so, please explain your views
..or are we all in agreement about these 3 points?




You don't need nasa, you don't need videos or photos, you can see for yourself by watching a lunar eclipse, that's OUR shadow, the fact we can predict them happening is the nail in the coffin.. or by the constellation positions above the horizon in different hemispheres, and the fact you can't see the north star from deep in the southern hemisphere

if that's not enough, almost every flat earth 'proof' fails at testing too

this isn't opinion, it's testable, visual, irrefutable evidence

and it was after this post of mine that the thread was derailed, is anyone even going to bother attempting to justify THEIR claims?


I've given absolute evidence, testable, visual, irrefutable evidence

You have posted vague, ambiguous, rambling thoughts and ideas
poorly scripted and ending with a question mark.

Narrow it down to one question and leave out the condescension.

as you can see you're wrong, what i've said isn't vague, its clear and concise
you asked me to ask only one question so I did.. still waiting for your reply



in fact I'm replying to everyone who's saying 'you've got no evidence', as i DO have evidence and I'm blatantly presenting it here, once again I've been greeted with more conflicting responses, some saying that some FE's dont believe in the UA part of the model, some don't agree with the angular sun rays proving anything, some don't agree on the lunar eclipse model etc etc

how can you not all follow the same model?

there's pretty much only 1 globe model, we're a ball, in space, with life growing all over it, a moon orbiting us, us orbiting the sun, the sun orbiting the galactic centre, the whole package travelling through space.. this was 'scientifically' confirmed (I'm not using any of this as evidence, just making a point) by looking at the stars and conducting tests until the testing made the scientific community agree that the theories must be correct as they WORKED UNDER TESTING

i'm not a scientist, i don't claim to be able to do any of the calculations, but I can see with my eyes and that's enough to prove certain things and disprove others


this is why i'm here, because the evidence IS there, yes the FE model has answers to a lot of things that disprove the theory, but most of the FE 'proofs' FAIL UNDER TESTING, this is why they simply should not still be accepted
- landmarks from too far away - when camera is put on ground level, landmarks no longer visible - failed under testing
- localised sun - proven to be perspective - failed under testing
- no satellites / no ISS - viewable through a telescope / binoculars - failed under testing
- flat earth map - distance vs time - failed under testing


again, this is what happens when you do research and experiments, you get answers


thanks
Title: Re: questions need answering
Post by: Pezevenk on June 27, 2016, 06:12:54 AM
Hitler already? Why?

Hitler was a round earther.  :P

So? Are you becoming jroa?
Title: Re: questions need answering
Post by: Badxtoss on June 27, 2016, 10:49:58 AM
Your questions have baffled many FEers, but not me. For a very long time, it has been impossible for FEers to answer these questions, due to flaws in the standard FE model. Luckily, I have created a model which I call the Celestial Ocean Theory, which perfectly explains these anomalies in a Flat Earth universe.

1. Smoke does not travel downwards on the Flat Earth because the atmosphere is also accelerating with the smoke.
If you place a candle on a rocket moving upwards, the smoke will go downwards due to air resistance - however, when the candle is still, it is accelerating at the exact same speed as the atmosphere around it.

2. Crepuscular rays are evidence that the Earth is indeed flat. As of yet, the Round Earthers have no explanation for how crepuscular rays work - I do. Crepuscular rays exist because the Sun is only a few thousand miles above the Earth, which causes a visible differences in the angle of sunlight.

3. The Shadow Object causes both Lunar and Solar eclipses. This Shadow object is translucent, but its particles are arranged in oscillate in a way which does allow light of a particular oscillation (i.e Sunlight and Moonlight) to penetrate it. The existence of this object can be proven by looking at declassified and leaked NASA documents, as the government has for a very long time attempted to hide the object's existence.

4. Meteors are simply clouds of space debris that are kept in orbit by aether currents, in oscillating orbits. The oscillation of the orbits of these meteors sometime cause them to draw nearer the Sun, and the heat from the Sun disturbs the aether currents (Heated air rises faster than cold air - the same principles apply to aether.) As a result, the meteors are flung off course. Sometimes, they are flung towards the plane of the Earth, and when the enter the atmoplane they burn up due to friction.
Actually crepuscular rays are easily explained.  And in fact are more proof of a global earth.
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2011/11/02/crepuscular-rays-are-parallel/#.V3FlNJBOKrU

Why doesn't this shadow object block stars?  Why have millions of star gazers over thousands of years failed to see it?

So meteors get too close to the sun?  Are they normally moving behind the sun?  Is the sun putting out heat on all sides?  Is it then a sphere?

And speaking of the sun, why does it drop below the horizon and become invisible?  Shouldn't something that big and that high be see able by everyone at all times, if the earth was flat?
Title: Re: questions need answering
Post by: FLAT_IS_TRUTH on June 27, 2016, 01:21:03 PM
Your questions have baffled many FEers, but not me. For a very long time, it has been impossible for FEers to answer these questions, due to flaws in the standard FE model. Luckily, I have created a model which I call the Celestial Ocean Theory, which perfectly explains these anomalies in a Flat Earth universe.

1. Smoke does not travel downwards on the Flat Earth because the atmosphere is also accelerating with the smoke.
If you place a candle on a rocket moving upwards, the smoke will go downwards due to air resistance - however, when the candle is still, it is accelerating at the exact same speed as the atmosphere around it.

2. Crepuscular rays are evidence that the Earth is indeed flat. As of yet, the Round Earthers have no explanation for how crepuscular rays work - I do. Crepuscular rays exist because the Sun is only a few thousand miles above the Earth, which causes a visible differences in the angle of sunlight.

3. The Shadow Object causes both Lunar and Solar eclipses. This Shadow object is translucent, but its particles are arranged in oscillate in a way which does allow light of a particular oscillation (i.e Sunlight and Moonlight) to penetrate it. The existence of this object can be proven by looking at declassified and leaked NASA documents, as the government has for a very long time attempted to hide the object's existence.

4. Meteors are simply clouds of space debris that are kept in orbit by aether currents, in oscillating orbits. The oscillation of the orbits of these meteors sometime cause them to draw nearer the Sun, and the heat from the Sun disturbs the aether currents (Heated air rises faster than cold air - the same principles apply to aether.) As a result, the meteors are flung off course. Sometimes, they are flung towards the plane of the Earth, and when the enter the atmoplane they burn up due to friction.
Actually crepuscular rays are easily explained.  And in fact are more proof of a global earth.
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2011/11/02/crepuscular-rays-are-parallel/#.V3FlNJBOKrU

Why doesn't this shadow object block stars?  Why have millions of star gazers over thousands of years failed to see it?

So meteors get too close to the sun?  Are they normally moving behind the sun?  Is the sun putting out heat on all sides?  Is it then a sphere?

And speaking of the sun, why does it drop below the horizon and become invisible?  Shouldn't something that big and that high be see able by everyone at all times, if the earth was flat?

1. The shadow object is translucent, and therefore impossible to see using telescopes. However, it blocks a certain type of light - light which oscillates at the same frequency as sunlight and moonlight.

2. Meteors float on the Aether winds below the Sun, which is spherical, but only shines in one direction, like a spotlight. As the meteors approach the Sun, the temperature difference distorts the Aether winds, in the same way that temperature distorts regular wind, and some meteors are flung towards the Earth.

3. Refraction.
Title: Re: questions need answering
Post by: johnnyorbital on June 27, 2016, 01:54:34 PM
FLAT_IS_TRUTH
its very simple, if something is blocking out light, it would block out light

saying 'it only lets through certain types of light' is a ridiculous attempt of an excuse and sounds like it was made up on the spot, who came up with that idea? you? where's any evidence to back that up? You can't just say it and it be so, that's not how proving things works

we can predict lunar eclipses by looking at the sky, using geometry and algebra

how do you guys explain being able to predict something you can't even see? why is there no mention of it in the flat earth model?

globe evidence - being able to predict them by tracing the sun and moon's positions in the sky, it working out to be when the sun is directly behind us, which as we know, would cause a shadow.. remember, this stands up to testing, time after time after time

..also, why do other flat earthers disagree with your meteors theory?
Title: Re: questions need answering
Post by: Badxtoss on June 27, 2016, 10:55:15 PM
Your questions have baffled many FEers, but not me. For a very long time, it has been impossible for FEers to answer these questions, due to flaws in the standard FE model. Luckily, I have created a model which I call the Celestial Ocean Theory, which perfectly explains these anomalies in a Flat Earth universe.

1. Smoke does not travel downwards on the Flat Earth because the atmosphere is also accelerating with the smoke.
If you place a candle on a rocket moving upwards, the smoke will go downwards due to air resistance - however, when the candle is still, it is accelerating at the exact same speed as the atmosphere around it.

2. Crepuscular rays are evidence that the Earth is indeed flat. As of yet, the Round Earthers have no explanation for how crepuscular rays work - I do. Crepuscular rays exist because the Sun is only a few thousand miles above the Earth, which causes a visible differences in the angle of sunlight.

3. The Shadow Object causes both Lunar and Solar eclipses. This Shadow object is translucent, but its particles are arranged in oscillate in a way which does allow light of a particular oscillation (i.e Sunlight and Moonlight) to penetrate it. The existence of this object can be proven by looking at declassified and leaked NASA documents, as the government has for a very long time attempted to hide the object's existence.

4. Meteors are simply clouds of space debris that are kept in orbit by aether currents, in oscillating orbits. The oscillation of the orbits of these meteors sometime cause them to draw nearer the Sun, and the heat from the Sun disturbs the aether currents (Heated air rises faster than cold air - the same principles apply to aether.) As a result, the meteors are flung off course. Sometimes, they are flung towards the plane of the Earth, and when the enter the atmoplane they burn up due to friction.
Actually crepuscular rays are easily explained.  And in fact are more proof of a global earth.
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2011/11/02/crepuscular-rays-are-parallel/#.V3FlNJBOKrU

Why doesn't this shadow object block stars?  Why have millions of star gazers over thousands of years failed to see it?

So meteors get too close to the sun?  Are they normally moving behind the sun?  Is the sun putting out heat on all sides?  Is it then a sphere?

And speaking of the sun, why does it drop below the horizon and become invisible?  Shouldn't something that big and that high be see able by everyone at all times, if the earth was flat?

1. The shadow object is translucent, and therefore impossible to see using telescopes. However, it blocks a certain type of light - light which oscillates at the same frequency as sunlight and moonlight.

2. Meteors float on the Aether winds below the Sun, which is spherical, but only shines in one direction, like a spotlight. As the meteors approach the Sun, the temperature difference distorts the Aether winds, in the same way that temperature distorts regular wind, and some meteors are flung towards the Earth.

3. Refraction.
Actually a translucent object would be very easy to see with a telescope, or, if it's as large as the sun (your sun in your theory) with the naked eye even. Since stars, well some of them anyway, give off exactly the same kind of light as the sun (we know this because we have done spectral analysis of stars and the sun) then your shadow object would be seen as blocking out certain stars in the night sky, and basically being a big black circle in the daytime sky.

The sun is spherical but shines like a spot light.  Ok, how does that work?  Spotlights have lenses and mirrors to get that effect, so how is the sun doing it?  What, exactly is its make up, what is its fuel?

Refraction does not even remotely answer the questions asked.  Why doesn't the sun look like an oval and why does it visibly drop below the horizon?
Title: Re: questions need answering
Post by: johnnyorbital on June 28, 2016, 02:34:35 AM
During this process of elimination of the flat earth 'proofs', I'm wondering how many actual 'proofs' you have left now.

localised sun - I've proved that the sun is nowhere near as close as the model states
shadow moon - I've explained how that is an impossibility
dome - meteors shouldn't exist but they do - even flat earthers disagree with each other
landmarks from too far away - I've explained the major flaw in the testing and how under correct testing it fails

where has everyone gone?

FLAT_IS_TRUTH - I answered your points, you gave up way to easily, you didn't even come back with any type of debate or evidence

Space Cowgirl -
You haven't posted any evidence..
..also, I've given absolute evidence, testable, visual, irrefutable evidence..
still waiting for your reply

boydster -
is this what happens when someone comes in with more than 'I've seen the curve' or 'there's photos of earth'? you try to drown the 'evidence' in a sea of comments? ..
I'm totally looking forward to the evidence you have to offer. I've seen allusions to things that might be evidence, but nothing really explicit. I'll get right out of your way.  :-X
again, I'm awaiting responses to all the evidence I've provided, I have replied to you previously, you ignored me

Bullwinkle -
I've given absolute evidence, testable, visual, irrefutable evidence
You have posted vague, ambiguous, rambling thoughts and ideas
poorly scripted and ending with a question mark.
Narrow it down to one question and leave out the condescension.
I did, again, I got no reply, I even narrowed it down to one question, you repeated my question (even though you changed it slightly so that it no longer made sense) but you did not reply

sceptimatic -
I'm sick of getting conflicting information from places like Facebook and YouTube


How did they respond to your complaints?

who? the flat earthers? the same as always.. with cognitive dissonance

I had one guy on Facebook say that a photo of the ISS passing in front of the moon was fake, so I gave him a challenge; I gave him a photo that I took, and asked him to spot what was fake on it.. he chose some elastic bands on the photo.. I told him the photo was unedited, he said he KNEW it was fake.. It was a photo from my camera roll, I even screenshotted it IN my camera roll as proof

I told him he blatantly didn't have the skills to claim photos are fake, he said 'do the math' then blocked me

flat earthers have lost all ability to admit they've worked ANYTHING out wrong, even when the evidence is staring them in the face
No evidence is staring anyone in the face. The only evidence that is put forward is the supposed evidence that people like you seem to think is evidence and expect free thinkers to simply accept it, sim ply because you come here with a full on indoctrinated mind, yet pretend you do not.
10 a penny..

so talk to me, discuss my points with me, tell me which ones you think I'm wrong about

that's why I'm here
again, no reply, i'm still waiting

so where have all the people gone that said I have no evidence?
I've presented my evidence, I'm waiting for an intelligent debate with the people who are here because they have been convinced without doubt that the earth is flat.. as the evidence for a flat earth has so many flaws and as I've now pointed them out, AND given thorough explanations as to why they simply do not stand up to testing, I'd like to hear your thoughts

I'm not belittling anyone, I'm not abusive, I'm not offensive, I admit when I'm wrong (as I did about the smoke), I'm trying to do it point by point so we can clear up any loose ends but again, I'm greeted with a lot of avoidance of direct answers by the flat earth community

can I please get some replies, especially from those who claimed I have no evidence


ps
Refraction does not even remotely answer the questions asked.  Why doesn't the sun look like an oval and why does it visibly drop below the horizon?
in actual fact refraction could be a viable explanation, refraction has been known to cause both the sun and the moon to be visible on opposite horizons during a lunar eclipse, so the refraction explanation can be used for both arguments, the rest you said was pretty much in agreement with what I've covered in this thread :)
Title: Re: questions need answering
Post by: johnnyorbital on June 28, 2016, 03:18:09 PM
where'd everyone go?

Title: Re: questions need answering
Post by: boydster on June 28, 2016, 03:47:54 PM
Dude. I'm not going to be bossed around into defending flat earth. That's crazy. For more reasons than one. Good luck though.
Title: Re: questions need answering
Post by: Space Cowgirl on June 28, 2016, 04:58:07 PM
Dude. I'm not going to be bossed around into defending flat earth. That's crazy. For more reasons than one. Good luck though.

Come on, boydster. I know you're flat!
Title: Re: questions need answering
Post by: boydster on June 28, 2016, 05:01:34 PM
Um, my eyes are up here, thank you.
Title: Re: questions need answering
Post by: Space Cowgirl on June 28, 2016, 05:09:23 PM
Um, my eyes are up here, thank you.

I just figured we could discuss the flatness while we wait for Johnorbital to demand answers again!

He's gonna cry, tho.
Title: Re: questions need answering
Post by: boydster on June 28, 2016, 05:19:25 PM
English is an ever-changing language. I mean, just look at how the word "literally" was recently redefined to include its use for things not meant in the literal sense. In that spirit I offer the following partial list of things that must be considered flat if we are to also consider the Earth flat:

I also offer the following list of things that should no longer be considered flat, or compared to flat things:
Title: Re: questions need answering
Post by: Space Cowgirl on June 28, 2016, 05:24:36 PM
In my research, I have discovered that everything is flat https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCcMDMoNu66_1Hwi5-MeiQgw
Title: Re: questions need answering
Post by: rabinoz on June 28, 2016, 10:19:16 PM
In my research, I have discovered that everything is flat https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCcMDMoNu66_1Hwi5-MeiQgw
Yes that the only you'll get a flat earth! Look ma the earth is flat(enned)!
(http://i.cbc.ca/1.3590933.1463749499!/fileImage/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/16x9_780/stomped-globes.jpg)
Title: Re: questions need answering
Post by: johnnyorbital on June 29, 2016, 12:59:35 AM
demanding answers?

you guys said I had no evidence, I posted my evidence and am simply waiting for answers

that's the whole point of this forum

the forum also claims to 'strictly enforce' the rules, rule number 8 being about derailment, you're an embarrassment to the flat earth society, avoiding answers is not what they stand for

Space Cowgirl - instead of purposely ignoring the clear evidence I have, why not defend your theory?

you BOTH said I've got no evidence, but I've blatantly presented irrefutable evidence

are you even going to TRY to prove me wrong or do you agree with my findings?

If not, why not?

its not a difficult question
Title: Re: questions need answering
Post by: johnnyorbital on June 29, 2016, 01:03:21 AM
This forum is also subject to the Forum Rules, which are strictly enforced in this board

8. Low-content Posting/Derailment
Do not make spammy, non-contributive or low-quality posts, or derail threads by deliberately dragging discussion away from the original topic.



so don't blame me, blame the rules
Title: Re: questions need answering
Post by: johnnyorbital on June 29, 2016, 03:09:52 AM
so does anyone with any actual substance to their posts have anything to add? (apologies, you may have to sift through the thread to find related posts)

please don't purposely derail my threads any more

and I'm not 'bossing' or 'demanding' answers either, if you claim I have no evidence, then I present you with evidence, it's RESPECTFUL to respond accordingly

'he's going to cry', you don't need a degree in psychology to see you're trying to antagonise me, you don't need one to work out why either

either back up your comments or please stop wasting mine and everyone else's time with your chit chat, I'm sure there'll be an 'off topic' type section for you somewhere if you want to chit chat
Title: Re: questions need answering
Post by: johnnyorbital on June 29, 2016, 03:19:57 AM
..Look ma..

Rab.. probably a silly question, but are you from Australia?
Title: Re: questions need answering
Post by: JimmyTheCrab on June 29, 2016, 03:23:00 AM

that's the whole point of this forum

Ha, there is your noob mistake.  There is no point to this forum.  Well, maybe a bit of light relief when you're having a coffee perhaps, but I'm not sure that makes a point.
Title: Re: questions need answering
Post by: johnnyorbital on June 29, 2016, 08:38:15 AM
what a shocker, this thread being avoided

surely someone has enough about them to actually discuss points?

or am I being too presumptive?
Title: Re: questions need answering
Post by: Username on June 29, 2016, 11:12:01 AM
Try to keep it on topic guys.
Title: Re: questions need answering
Post by: johnnyorbital on July 02, 2016, 04:59:23 AM
still waiting for anyone to discuss my evidence of a globe earth AND my rebuttal of flat earth evidences

anyone?
Title: Re: questions need answering
Post by: rabinoz on July 02, 2016, 05:22:50 AM
..Look ma..
Rab.. probably a silly question, but are you from Australia?
Nope, not a silly question. Fair dinkum, how'd ya guess? Not that RABinOZ might not be a slight clue!
Guess you'd have to be a few 'roos short in the top paddock not to pick that up.
 :) Look ma, no hands!  :)
 :( Look ma, no teeth!  :(
Title: Re: questions need answering
Post by: johnnyorbital on July 02, 2016, 05:26:50 AM
..Look ma..
Rab.. probably a silly question, but are you from Australia?
Nope, not a silly question. Fair dinkum, how'd ya guess? Not that RABinOZ might not be a slight clue!
Guess you'd have to be a few 'roos short in the top paddock not to pick that up.
 :) Look ma, no hands!  :)
 :( Look ma, no teeth!  :(

where abouts in Australia?

can you see the north star from your location? ;)