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If The Earth Is Flat...

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Lord Wilmore

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If The Earth Is Flat...
« on: April 15, 2006, 01:16:48 PM »
Why is there a visible curvature to the Earth, both from the ground and form elevated heights?

I've read the FAQ, and it certainly doesn't tackle this. This is a phenomon that anyone can observe first hand, and so is not the product of any supposed conspiracy.
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Revan

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If The Earth Is Flat...
« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2006, 01:18:10 PM »
No, it's still the product of a conspiracy, since everything that contradicts one's belief is false and only there to undermine said belief.
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Lord Wilmore

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If The Earth Is Flat...
« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2006, 01:19:36 PM »
Quote from: "Revan"
No, it's still the product of a conspiracy, since everything that contradicts one's belief is false and only there to undermine said belief.


But I can see this curvature with the naked eye, and I can see that curve from anywhere on the Earth. So can you.

Explain.
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"I want truth for truth's sake, not for the applaud or approval of men. I would not reject truth because it is unpopular, nor accept error because it is popular. I should rather be right and stand alone than run with the multitude and be wrong." - C.S. DeFord
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Scael

If The Earth Is Flat...
« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2006, 01:27:33 PM »
And don't try to put it aside by claiming it's an illusion created by a conspiring government, please.
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Unimportant

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If The Earth Is Flat...
« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2006, 01:45:41 PM »
Have you heard of hills?

Can I claim the earth isn't a sphere because the foundation of my house is perfectly level? Surely you realize that every inch of surface area on a sphere has some curvature, so any flat area on earth certainly proves the earth is not a sphere.
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Smilin Bob

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If The Earth Is Flat...
« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2006, 01:59:40 PM »
Quote from: "Unimportant"
Have you heard of hills?

Can I claim the earth isn't a sphere because the foundation of my house is perfectly level? Surely you realize that every inch of surface area on a sphere has some curvature, so any flat area on earth certainly proves the earth is not a sphere.
That specific area of the earth is flat.  For example, take an orange and slice a sliver off perpendicular to the center of the orange.  If that was the Earth, you could say that area was flat and level.
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NZYTE.  MAKE YOUR WORLD ROUNDER.
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Unimportant

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If The Earth Is Flat...
« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2006, 02:13:47 PM »
Ok, you're halfway there!

Now apply the same logic to a flat earth that appears curved. Take a piece of wood, and carve a mound in the center. Now you can see, that section on the flat piece of wood is, in fact, curved.

We call these mounds "hills".
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moose

If The Earth Is Flat...
« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2006, 03:10:15 PM »
ah nevermind.
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General Specific

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If The Earth Is Flat...
« Reply #8 on: April 15, 2006, 03:17:43 PM »
How does the moon orbit the earth then?
Why can't we see across the world if it's flat?
Most importantly, how do you explain plate tectonics?
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Erasmus

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If The Earth Is Flat...
« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2006, 03:34:09 PM »
Quote from: "General Specific"
Most importantly, how do you explain plate tectonics?


How is this "most important", and how is it related to the discussion at hand?
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General Specific

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If The Earth Is Flat...
« Reply #10 on: April 15, 2006, 03:39:00 PM »
Quote from: "Erasmus"
Quote from: "General Specific"
Most importantly, how do you explain plate tectonics?


How is this "most important", and how is it related to the discussion at hand?

Most importantly because if indeed the earth is flat, then in turn plate tectonics would not exist.

The discussion at hand is "how can the earth be flat".
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Lord Wilmore

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If The Earth Is Flat...
« Reply #11 on: April 15, 2006, 03:39:02 PM »
Quote from: "Unimportant"
Have you heard of hills?

Can I claim the earth isn't a sphere because the foundation of my house is perfectly level? Surely you realize that every inch of surface area on a sphere has some curvature, so any flat area on earth certainly proves the earth is not a sphere.


I said a visible curvature to the Earth, visible from elevated heights. For example, from the top of a mountain, or an aeroplane. From anywhere on the planet, there is a distinct and general curve which is clearly visible. It is even visible at sea, which makes the idea that it is simply a curved geographical feature on a generally flat Earth an obvious fallacy. You yourselves claim that water would fall off the Earth if it were not held back. Thus, water obeys some form of gravity. If this is true, it could not possibly be curved in the fashion which is visible if the Earth was flat. Only in a spherical Earth could this occur.
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"I want truth for truth's sake, not for the applaud or approval of men. I would not reject truth because it is unpopular, nor accept error because it is popular. I should rather be right and stand alone than run with the multitude and be wrong." - C.S. DeFord
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Erasmus

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If The Earth Is Flat...
« Reply #12 on: April 15, 2006, 03:51:36 PM »
Quote from: "General Specific"
Most importantly because if indeed the earth is flat, then in turn plate tectonics would not exist.


What?  Why not?
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Lord Wilmore

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If The Earth Is Flat...
« Reply #13 on: April 15, 2006, 03:56:13 PM »
Would anyone care to answer my question? Just to be clear, I'll post it again:

Quote
From anywhere on the planet, there is a distinct and general curve which is clearly visible. It is even visible at sea, which makes the idea that it is simply a curved geographical feature on a generally flat Earth an obvious fallacy. You yourselves claim that water would fall off the Earth if it were not held back. Thus, water obeys some form of gravity. If this is true, it could not possibly be curved in the fashion which is visible if the Earth was flat. Only in a spherical Earth could this occur.


Can anyone offer an explanation?
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"I want truth for truth's sake, not for the applaud or approval of men. I would not reject truth because it is unpopular, nor accept error because it is popular. I should rather be right and stand alone than run with the multitude and be wrong." - C.S. DeFord
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General Specific

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If The Earth Is Flat...
« Reply #14 on: April 15, 2006, 04:02:22 PM »
Because of the moltem magma circulating inside the earths core.  If indeed the earth was flat, there can be no practical interpretation of a core in the earth.  Therefore there can be no magma with no core, and with no magma circulating, the continental plates(which result from magma in the earth adding on to old plates therefore sliding them, and pushing the oldest part of the plates back down into the earth) would not exist.

Essentially, Earths crust cannot exist without plate tectonics.

And also, if indeed there is a force that produces the force of gravity, then why does this force not erode the planet away?

But I think NEEMAN's example is proving enough for this topic.
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Isac_Newton

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If The Earth Is Flat...
« Reply #15 on: April 15, 2006, 04:15:14 PM »
there is a force for all the things u said, its called DARK ENERGY.
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Erasmus

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If The Earth Is Flat...
« Reply #16 on: April 15, 2006, 04:22:38 PM »
Quote from: "NEEMAN"
I said a visible curvature to the Earth, visible from elevated heights. For example, from the top of a mountain, or an aeroplane. From anywhere on the planet, there is a distinct and general curve which is clearly visible. ... Only in a spherical Earth could this occur.


I've heard this one a lot, and I'm almost certain that it's an untenable claim.

If you're referring to this sort of curve:



then I am so not impressed.  How do you know you're not just looking a disc?  As it turns out, I drew that figure by drawing a circular arc, not by drawing a sphere and putting it through a perspective projection (i.e., what your eyes do).

If you're talking about the other sort of curvature -- that is, like this:



-- then that's a bit more interesting.  But do you really claim to be able to see that from a mountain top or airplane?  Having been in both situations, I don't really feel that I could see it.

-Erasmus
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Lord Wilmore

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If The Earth Is Flat...
« Reply #17 on: April 15, 2006, 04:28:58 PM »
Quote from: "Erasmus"
I've heard this one a lot, and I'm almost certain that it's an untenable claim.

If you're referring to this sort of curve:



then I am so not impressed.  How do you know you're not just looking a disc?  As it turns out, I drew that figure by drawing a circular arc, not by drawing a sphere and putting it through a perspective projection (i.e., what your eyes do).


Simple. If I can go to any point on the Earth and observe a general degree of curvature which is the same in all locations (proportional to height), then yes, I can safely say I am not looking at a disc, as that would be a mathematical & physical impossibility.

If it were a disc, then the degree of curvature would change according to my position. However, this does not happen. The same degree of curvature is observable anywhere, and only changes if you are a a different height. As such, it cannot possibly be a disc.
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"I want truth for truth's sake, not for the applaud or approval of men. I would not reject truth because it is unpopular, nor accept error because it is popular. I should rather be right and stand alone than run with the multitude and be wrong." - C.S. DeFord
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Isac_Newton

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If The Earth Is Flat...
« Reply #18 on: April 15, 2006, 04:29:16 PM »
simply because it isnt there, the earth isnt curved, thats an optical illusion, its flat, like a pancacke
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Lord Wilmore

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If The Earth Is Flat...
« Reply #19 on: April 15, 2006, 04:35:05 PM »
Quote from: "Isac_Newton"
simply because it isnt there, the earth isnt curved, thats an optical illusion, its flat, like a pancacke


And how exactly can you prove that this curvature is an optical illusion? If the Earth was flat with a curved perimeter, then by remaining at the same height but moving position, the degree of the observable curvature would change.

It does not change. The only possible explanation for this is that the Earth is generally spherical in shape, otherwise, such a perpetual curvature could not exist.

EDIT: Or were you being ironic?
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"I want truth for truth's sake, not for the applaud or approval of men. I would not reject truth because it is unpopular, nor accept error because it is popular. I should rather be right and stand alone than run with the multitude and be wrong." - C.S. DeFord
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General Specific

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If The Earth Is Flat...
« Reply #20 on: April 15, 2006, 04:44:35 PM »
Quote from: "Isac_Newton"
there is a force for all the things u said, its called DARK ENERGY.

And what exactly does Dark Energy do?  How did you discover it?
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Unimportant

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If The Earth Is Flat...
« Reply #21 on: April 15, 2006, 04:50:22 PM »
Dark enegry exerts force on the "bottom" of the earth, accelerating it upwards at a constant rate so that we don't float away.

I discovered it this morning when I did not float away.
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Lord Wilmore

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If The Earth Is Flat...
« Reply #22 on: April 15, 2006, 04:52:47 PM »
Quote from: "Unimportant"
Dark enegry exerts force on the "bottom" of the earth, accelerating it upwards at a constant rate so that we don't float away.

I discovered it this morning when I did not float away.


Does the rest of the universe accelerate in tandem?
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"I want truth for truth's sake, not for the applaud or approval of men. I would not reject truth because it is unpopular, nor accept error because it is popular. I should rather be right and stand alone than run with the multitude and be wrong." - C.S. DeFord
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Unimportant

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If The Earth Is Flat...
« Reply #23 on: April 15, 2006, 04:55:40 PM »
If by "the rest of the universe" you mean the sun, moon, and cosmos that hang perpetually at a fixed distance a few thousand miles above earth, then yes they are accelerated at the same rate.
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Lord Wilmore

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If The Earth Is Flat...
« Reply #24 on: April 15, 2006, 04:58:45 PM »
Quote from: "Unimportant"
If by "the rest of the universe" you mean the sun, moon, and cosmos that hang perpetually at a fixed distance a few thousand miles above earth, then yes they are accelerated at the same rate.


I see. And tell me, if we are presumably moving further & further away from the source of this dark energy, and presuming this dark energy does not break the fundamental rules of physics (something I have yet to see mentioned on this site), then why is it that the force it exerts on the cosmos has not lessened over time?
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"I want truth for truth's sake, not for the applaud or approval of men. I would not reject truth because it is unpopular, nor accept error because it is popular. I should rather be right and stand alone than run with the multitude and be wrong." - C.S. DeFord
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General Specific

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If The Earth Is Flat...
« Reply #25 on: April 15, 2006, 05:01:36 PM »
Then what of the constellations?  Why are they not in the same place in the sky each night?  And of course this cannot be an optical illusion because you can see it with your own eyes.  Thus, your theory of the planets and stars being fixed cannot be true.
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Unimportant

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If The Earth Is Flat...
« Reply #26 on: April 15, 2006, 05:09:15 PM »
The distance above the earth is fixed, not their position.

NEEMAN: I'm not really sure how Dark Energy works, only that it does. I can see the effects it has on the Earth, but on the fundamental why level I'm as baffled as the next guy. Then again, I'm no scientist.

What's the alternative? Gravity? Are you claiming to understand the "why" behind that?
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Chuck Norris

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If The Earth Is Flat...
« Reply #27 on: April 15, 2006, 05:13:46 PM »
Quote from: "General Specific"
Then what of the constellations?  Why are they not in the same place in the sky each night?  .


*raises hand* I know! I know!

Because the Earth is round. :D
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FEer0101

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If The Earth Is Flat...
« Reply #28 on: April 15, 2006, 05:16:50 PM »
NO ZOMG ITS TEH DARK ENERGIES! I PRAY TO TEH DARK ENERGIES! THEY TALK TO ME! TEH EARTH IS FLATTTT!!!! AWLAWLALWAL!
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Lord Wilmore

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If The Earth Is Flat...
« Reply #29 on: April 15, 2006, 05:17:45 PM »
Quote from: "Unimportant"
What's the alternative? Gravity? Are you claiming to understand the "why" behind that?


No, I can simply provide more tangible evidence and a more reasoned explanation than you can.

We can calculate the movements of objects based on theories of gravity to an incredible degree, through mathematics. From planets to comets to rocks, the movement of all these things can be calculated given the right information. I genuinely doubt anyone on this forum can do so through a theory of dark energy.

Also, if dark energy moves the entire Earth & cosmos upwards at the speed of light, then by that logic, when I throw a ball into the air or fire a bullet into the air, that bullet must be breaking the speed of light, in that it is moving faster upwards than the Earth, which itself is supposedly traveling at the speed of light. That would break the fundamental laws of physics.

And I would still lke someone to explain why there is a discernable curvature of the Earth.
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"I want truth for truth's sake, not for the applaud or approval of men. I would not reject truth because it is unpopular, nor accept error because it is popular. I should rather be right and stand alone than run with the multitude and be wrong." - C.S. DeFord
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