Bioshock Infinite

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Blanko

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Re: Bioshock Infinite
« Reply #60 on: October 11, 2013, 02:18:58 PM »
Oh, he mad.

This business is more srs than TES lore.

Are you suffering from a rectum Ragnarök?

No, Andrew, I'm able to send off books just fine.

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OrbisNonSufficit

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Re: Bioshock Infinite
« Reply #61 on: October 11, 2013, 02:30:23 PM »
Gameplay is 8/10, overall 9.5/10. okay.jpg

Actually, I can't tell if this is pasta...

I hope you are not quoting me, because I claimed GUNPLAY was 8/10 not gameplay.

Uh... there's something else?

Something else to the gameplay besides gunplay?  Yeah, there is.  There is the world design, skyrail, character design, and pretty much any other factor that comes into affecting how the game is played.  In fact in this game I would argue that the plot is the reward for progressing, and thereby should be considered part of gameplay.

Still though, if gunplay and gameplay are viewed as one in the same and seperate from plot and other things in the game, why couldn't gameplay be viewed as 8/10 whilst the experience as a whole be viewed as above that?

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Well, if you really like your games to be movies so much that the major bulk of gameplay matters that little to you, I don't know what to tell you. Go play some fucking David Cage games, I think they'd be right down your alley.

I just find it absurd that you pretty much tried to write off the game's flaws while still thinking it's nearly perfect. If the game's flaws are commonly shared by the entire genre, they somehow don't apply to this particular game? lol? If the genre the game was chosen to be conflicts so much with what it tried to achieve with its narrative, then I'm sorry, but that's a massive fucking flaw in terms of game design. If you review games by completely ignoring (and you literally did use the term "ignore") the bad parts, then every game is perfect.

Also, he didn't misunderstand the ending, it's you who completely failed to pick up on the massive internal contradictions in the ending.

I Don't think they are serious flaws.  I enjoyed the Gunplay, I just did not think it was on par with the rest of the game.  Also I don't view those mechanics as flaws.  Characters in shooters will aways have these random abilities/strengths that just don't make sense if you really sit down and think about them, but they are not the point.  Getting bogged down in mechanics that don't really detract from the story of the game is not something I would recommend doing, and its something that you have to deal with in every medium.  We all look past things that we can tell are CGI, in movies we are often forced to look past problems with physics, ignore giant gaps in time.  These things may effect character progression, but only if you stare into them.  I see the mechanics, but I am not looking at them. 

Ignoreing mechanics that are not "bad" is not the same as ignoring flaws in the game.  I don't think that they are really flaws, they are simply things that are there to make it a game rather than a movie.  In most games this is a non issue, as the gameplay, gunplay, or whatever you want to call it is the main draw of the experience, sometimes the only draw.  But In Bioshock, the world, the atmostphere, and the plot are the draw, the result being that the fighting done in between, while fun, ends up feeling like something stuck inbetween the story rather than part of the story.  The end result is that the game is near perfect, but not perfect.  I found that the pacing was such that I was very often engaged in the story between quick short fights, or exploring the city looking for more lore, so I never felt like the gunplay was becoming to overwhelming or annoying, even if I felt it was below what I would consider a near perfect story and environment. 

Let me put it this way, the shooting quality, the fun of the fights, was well above average in my point of view.  It is only subpar to other elements of the game, but it is in no way bad, boring, or annoying.   Maybe on higher difficulties, but I was playing on hard and found it to be just fine.

As for the ending, why don't you explain what you think it means/what happened rather than just say I got it wrong?

« Last Edit: October 11, 2013, 02:34:00 PM by OrbisNonSufficit »

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OrbisNonSufficit

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Re: Bioshock Infinite
« Reply #62 on: October 11, 2013, 02:33:02 PM »
eee

Re: Bioshock Infinite
« Reply #63 on: October 11, 2013, 02:33:49 PM »
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Blanko

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Re: Bioshock Infinite
« Reply #64 on: October 11, 2013, 03:08:26 PM »
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Again, I don't know what to tell you. You're still just ignoring the flaws. You're not even defending them, you're just saying you just have to not look at them. To me, storytelling in video games cannot be good if the game's narrative doesn't integrate well with the gameplay, and Bioshock Infinite is a landmark example of a game that does pretty much everything possible wrong in that department. It's a movie that pauses every five minutes for you to do something stupid and unrelated.

As for the ending, " class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">this video explains some of the issues well. The part about the ending starts at the 15-minute mark, but I suggest you watch the entire thing for the valuable insight.

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Vindictus

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Re: Bioshock Infinite
« Reply #65 on: October 11, 2013, 03:28:16 PM »
I don't think all of his arguments are reasonable, especially his ideas regarding character development.  Game reviewers like this often tend to think that all characters need to be dynamic, that because Booker does not change much throughout the story, suddenly the game is bad or his character is not as good as it could be, which is not the case.  Booker, while being the person you control, is more of a tool used to see Elizabeth, and making him a dynamic character would detract from her.  His character is a simple one, as it should be.

The problem he had with the character is that Booker is supposed to be a guilt ridden murderer.. that then goes and kills hordes of people without feeling any guilt or remorse. Jimquisition did an episode on this phenomenon in gaming just recently:

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/jimquisition/8105-Lugoscababib-Discobiscuits

tl;dw you get taken out of the game when you're told that a character is, say, not good with weapons, but then proceeds to kill 100's of people with a gun.

He argues that because you cannot sympathies with him because he mercilessly kills hundreds of people, but that's frankly a problem with the whole genre of FPS's and games as a whole.

Eh, that doesn't excuse Infinite. Are you aware of Spec Ops: The Line? It's a game that capitalized on all of the murder committed by the protagonist in the gameplay by making it important to the story.

The thing I disagree most with in his review is the way he describes Elizabeth.  First and foremost he describes her involvement with combat as being nothing more than a source of items, but that's not true.  She also rips open tears, which can/do play a big role in the combat.  If she did anymore then you wouldn't have much to do.  As it is she is a much better companion than most, as having companions that cannot die and also fight makes game too easy in many cases, and having to protect companions makes them feel weak and annoying.  Frankly she did what she needed to do.

That's just one problem he had with her. He also attacked their characters, as he perceived them as "tired stereotypes". I can't comment on her role in the gameplay because I haven't touched Infinite.

He clearly doesn't understand the ending of the story, stating that it was depressing because it claims that an evil megalomaniac will always exist, which isnt the case.

I won't comment on the ending either as I can't remember the specifics of it after reading it on Wikipedia.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2013, 04:30:23 PM by Vindictus »

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Saddam Hussein

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Re: Bioshock Infinite
« Reply #66 on: October 11, 2013, 04:27:51 PM »
Should I get this game?

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Supertails

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Re: Bioshock Infinite
« Reply #67 on: October 11, 2013, 05:15:19 PM »
Apparently I'm the only one that liked the reinforcement that Booker, no matter how much he tries to claim otherwise, is still a cold-blooded killer who can't escape his past. It's reflected in other characters' reactions to what he does. I like that Booker tries to play himself off as sympathetic, but then the gameplay and characters show that he's still the same killer he's been trying to get away from.
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Vindictus

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Re: Bioshock Infinite
« Reply #68 on: October 11, 2013, 05:45:43 PM »
Does the game say he feels guilt over his past murders or not?

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Supertails

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Re: Bioshock Infinite
« Reply #69 on: October 11, 2013, 05:50:52 PM »
I'm pretty sure there's one point where someone's goading him about it and he pretty clearly tries to distance himself from it.
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