If you need Polaris to be Crux your model is debunk.

If you need Polaris to be Crux your model is debunk.

One of the things the kills flat earth is celestial south.  Where south has meaning. And why south in celestial navigation works the why it does. 

In understanding this, flat earthers try to make false assurances to change reality.

One of the most idiotic attempts is to try to post Polaris and Crux are the same. Like. WTF?

Quote from: bulmabriefs144 on June 12, 2025, 05:59:30 AM

It's like the Clark Kent and Superman thing. From the equator, some nights you can see the Southern Cross.

Quote

The Southern Cross, or Crux, can be seen from the equator, but only during certain times of the year and for limited periods.

For a number of reasons especially by the constellations, it’s obvious if you’re looking to the northern celestial sphere vs the southern celestial sphere.  If you can’t tell the difference, you’re stupid.  Where the constellation nicknamed Big Dipper is used to find Polaris is in the northern celestial sphere in the north.  Where you’re not going to see the constellation Big Dipper looking south.  Where the constellation Big Dipper isn’t in the Southern celestial sphere. The Big Dipper is part of Ursa Major which is near Ursa Minor that circle the northern celestial pole and Polaris.  You look south, you don’t see Polaris, Ursa Major, and Ursa Minor.  Where the constellations over the equator and in the southern celestial sphere are very different.  Where Crux is a group of stars.

If your model is based on where you need to have Crux and Polaris be the same thing.  Which is stupid because Polaris is a single star in the northern celestial sphere, and Crux is a constellation of stars in the opposite direction in the southern celestial hemisphere.  Then everything about your model is debunked.  Including any mechanism you thinks makes Polaris in to the constellation Crux in the same location in the night sky.

Unlike people who stick to nonsense like RE despite all evidence to the contrary, I am capable of changing my mind.



If Crux shifts during the year, it cannot be the same as Polaris.

What is true is that the southern hemisphere has no North Star equivalent. It has a fake "South Star" which is not centered. A quick time lapse of the southern hemisphere proves nothing at all is at the center. Octans is close but no cigar.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octans
Eric Dubay turned out to be right. There are NO fixed stars besides Polaris.

TL;DR: I don't "need" Crux to be Polaris. I just thought it might be sorta poetic. But it didn't work.

Unlike people who stick to nonsense like RE despite all evidence to the contrary, I am capable of changing my mind.

Unfortunately, when you change your mind, it tends to lead you further away from reality.

Unlike people who stick to nonsense like RE despite all evidence to the contrary, I am capable of changing my mind.

Are you really this big of a troll.

What is true is that the southern hemisphere has no North Star equivalent. It has a fake "South Star" which is not centered

Which is just you babbling.  A “fake” South Pole based off mirroring would also have to have mirror images of the Big Dipper and Little Dipper to just name two constellations in the northern celestial sphere.  Where there would have to be a constellation in the northern hemisphere to generate the “mirror” imaging of crux.  Where crux isn’t a single star but a constellation that circles the southern celestial pole.

Where completely different constellations circular the northern celestial pole, no mirror images in the southern celestial sphere.  Completely different constellations between the two celestial spheres.

Northern Constellations



https://www.constellation-guide.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/northern-constellations.jpg

Southern Constellations


https://www.constellation-guide.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/southern-constellations.jpg

The southern celestial sphere isn’t a mirror of the northern celestial sphere.  Completely different patterns and distributions of stars with no evidence of just being mirrored.  With completely different constellations between the southern celestial pole and the southern celestial pole. 

Bulma.  You are just a pathological liar at this point. 

Quote from: bulmabriefs144 on June 14, 2025, 07:20:00 AM

Unlike people who stick to nonsense like RE despite all evidence to the contrary, I am capable of changing my mind.

Unfortunately, when you change your mind, it tends to lead you further away from reality.

If it's opposed to being firmly stuck in delusion, I am okay with that. Eventually, changing my mind will lead to discounting crappy options. Whereas a person who does not learn from Cromwell's rule will always be stuck in the idea that they are right. You know, destroying a forest, burning some orphans? Doesn't matter if you're right. Except that those dead trees and orphans are a rather big hint that yes, you do occasionally need to recognize if you're wrong.

So, can you? I admitted my mistake. Isn't it time you also admitted that RE has cost the taxpayer billions in "space exploration"? Hell, even the next county over from us had watched a solar farm go up, watched the level of erosion, and said that they saw no positive benefit and voted against building others.

So, can you? I admitted my mistake.

No.  You Bulma are a pathological liar that has to lie the southern celestial pole is a mirror image of the northern hemisphere where the star patterns are completely different, the constellations between the northern celestial pole and the southern pole are completely different, where south on round earth has meaning and works for celestial navigation.  Where FE is useless. 

What happens when stars visually combine because they are close together?

Are you this stupid.

Polaris is a star in the northern hemisphere that is basically sitting in line with the northern celestial pole.

A star that doesn’t dim as one travels south.  Once far enough south across the equator Polaris is physically blocked from view by the horizon to the north. 

As you travel south, Polaris gets lower on the northern horizon.  Crux a constellation rising above the southern hemisphere to the south is rising in the south as you travel south as Polaris gets lower in the sky to the north.  Crux is a constellation that points where one has to “look” more south to locate the southern celestial pole. 



And not this..

Quote from: WISHTOLAUGH on March 22, 2024, 01:18:43 PM

No one uses Sigma Octatntis to navigate to the supposed south pole.

I've ignored nothing, but I am going to start now by ignoring your stupid bullshit.

??

You keep trying to change the subject with basically lying how navigation in the southern hemisphere works with a sextant.  It’s not based off the celestial South Pole for the southern hemisphere where Polaris isn’t visible because of the earth’s curvature? 

How to find the celestial South Pole makes sense on a globe / sphere.






The celestial South Pole is meaningless on a flat earth

Lemme put it this way. You ought to be ecstatic that I've not only decided I'm wrong but also sided with what astronomy says concerning the southern hemisphere. Nope, "Unfortunately, when you change your mind, it tends to lead you further away from reality." Mainstream astronomy is further from reality?

I see. Your sense of reality is so screwed up that it doesn't even remain consistent with what science says.

 A quick time lapse of the southern hemisphere proves nothing at all is at the center. Octans is close but no cigar.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octans
Eric Dubay turned out to be right. There are NO fixed stars besides Polaris.

Ok?

Where there is still a southern celestial pole the stars of the southern celestial sky revolve around.  It’s still a point in the sky because of the perspective created by a rotating earth.  There isn’t a “fake” point.  It’s still a point, it’s just there is no star conveniently lining up to easily pinpoint the position like Polaris at the northern celestial pole. The celestial poles are not created by a star happening to line up.  The celestial poles are created because a spherical earth rotates on its axis. 

Where the fact people in Africa, South American, and Australia can all look south and see the constellation crux.  It proves the earth is spherical.  Like phases of the moon and those phases are intuited by lunar eclipses.  The moon doesn’t change apparent size hour by hour.  The same face of the moon is seen by people throughout all the world.  The fact Polaris is physically blocked from view by earth’s curvature as one travels south passed the equator.




And not this..

Lemme put it this way. You ought to be ecstatic that I've not only decided I'm wrong but also sided with what astronomy says concerning the southern hemisphere. Nope, "Unfortunately, when you change your mind, it tends to lead you further away from reality." Mainstream astronomy is further from reality?

I see. Your sense of reality is so screwed up that it doesn't even remain consistent with what science says.

This post?

Quote from: bulmabriefs144 on June 14, 2025, 07:20:00 AM

Unlike people who stick to nonsense like RE despite all evidence to the contrary, I am capable of changing my mind.

Unfortunately, when you change your mind, it tends to lead you further away from reality.

Where do you get “Mainstream astronomy is further from reality?” from markjo‘s statement?

Quote from: markjo on June 14, 2025, 08:11:54 AM

Quote from: bulmabriefs144 on June 14, 2025, 07:20:00 AM

Unlike people who stick to nonsense like RE despite all evidence to the contrary, I am capable of changing my mind.

Unfortunately, when you change your mind, it tends to lead you further away from reality.

If it's opposed to being firmly stuck in delusion, I am okay with that.

Although I firmly believe that reality is highly overrated, one still needs to come to terms with it.  Distancing yourself from reality is a sure path deeper into flat earth delusion.

Eventually, changing my mind will lead to discounting crappy options.

Yet you keep embracing crappy options.  Why is that?

I admitted my mistake. Isn't it time you also admitted that RE has cost the taxpayer billions in "space exploration"?

Sure, billions have been invested in space exploration.  Why should I think that was a mistake?

Hell, even the next county over from us had watched a solar farm go up, watched the level of erosion, and said that they saw no positive benefit and voted against building others.

Citation please.

Unlike people who stick to nonsense like RE despite all evidence to the contrary, I am capable of changing my mind.

What evidence to the contrary?

What you appear to mean here is that despite the mountains of evidence showing Earth is round and showing a FE model can't work, you will dig your heels in and claim Earth is flat and REers are brainwashed fools for accepting reality; while repeatedly contradicting yourself when things don't work. I wouldn't call repeatedly contradicting yourself changing your mind. I would call it making excuses to pretend you aren't wrong.

What is true is that the southern hemisphere has no North Star equivalent. It has a fake "South Star" which is not centered. A quick time lapse of the southern hemisphere proves nothing at all is at the center. Octans is close but no cigar.

Octans is a constellation, not a star.
What people usually refer to is Sigma Octans also known as Sigma Octantis.
This is a quite faint star, hard to see with the naked eye.
It is roughly 1 degree away from the south celestial pole, compared to Polaris being roughly 0.7 degrees away.

So in that sense, Polaris is close but no cigar, and there are no fixed stars.

TL;DR: I don't "need" Crux to be Polaris. I just thought it might be sorta poetic. But it didn't work.

Or a more honest version:
TL, DR: You saw something that destroyed your delusional fantasy, so you made up complete and utter crap based upon your deep seeded need to pretend your delusional fantasy is true; even though it made absolutely no sense in your delusional fantasy.
You then continually doubled down asserting to your delusion BS as if it was based upon nothing except your deep seeded need, while ignoring everything showing it was BS.
All while ignoring the far bigger issue, the south celestial pole.

If it's opposed to being firmly stuck in delusion, I am okay with that.

It isn't.
It is aligned with being firmly stuck in delusion and opposed to leaving that delusion, doing whatever you can to cling to your FE fantasy.

Eventually, changing my mind will lead to discounting crappy options.

So when will you be discounting the FE?
Such obvious crap with so many flaws you need to continually flee from?

will always be stuck in the idea that they are right

Like you are?
Where you ignore so much that shows you are wrong, and just keep repeating the same refuted crap.

I admitted my mistake.

You have admitted a relatively minor mistake while avoiding the much bigger issue which you still refuse to admit you were wrong about.

Isn't it time you also admitted that RE has cost the taxpayer billions in "space exploration"?

Why would anyone admit that?
That isn't the RE costing anything.
Earth is round, that is a simple fact.

What BS will you say next? The money spent on recovery after hurricanes is also somehow the fault of the RE model?

said that they saw no positive benefit and voted against building others.

And is that because like you they choose to remain wilfully ignorant of the harm it is preventing?
Maybe next they can vote to have a fossil fuel based powerplant built right next to them, and have the mine for the fuels also built there.

I've not only decided I'm wrong but also sided with what astronomy says concerning the southern hemisphere.

No, you haven't.
At least you haven't expressed that.
Do you admit that there is a point due south of everyone which the stars appear to rotate around - showing the FE model is complete and utter crap?
Do you admit that the angle of elevation of the stars (including in the southern hemisphere) are based upon the angular separation between the point directly below the star and the observer, based upon the fact that Earth is round?

No, instead you spout complete and utter crap about the southern sky somehow magically being a mirror of the north, making even more problems for your delusional BS.

In order for you to truly have sided with what astronomy says concerning the southern hemisphere, you need to accept it is a hemisphere, i.e. half of a sphere, half of the round Earth, and accept that Earth isn't flat.
Have you done that?
If you have, then admit it directly. Admit you recognise Earth is flat, that the FE model does not work, that Earth is round, and the RE model does work, at least for astronomy.
If not, then stop lying to us.