Southern Cross: a theory.

Yep.

I guess you lot all have umpteen explanations as to why the celebrated Southern Cross (viz. pics. on OZ and NZ flags) is visible from places like South America, South Africa, Australia, New Zealand, etc. - but not from Europe, North America, Russia, etc.

Speaking personally, I have seen the asterism while on a trip to Peru Chile and Argentina, a few years ago; also from Indonesia (although the sky was heavily light-polluted there); also (low on the horizon) from the West Indies earlier. But never from where I live in UK, nor Europe, nor most of the USA.

Some stargazers trying to identify it should note that the right-hand star (when the Cross is seen 'right way up') is considerably fainter than the others. In LP areas, I could only see three of its stars, plus the pointers Alpha and Beta Centauri. But - as an experienced stargazer and amateur astronomer - I recognised it straight away.

So - on to my theory. Not an attempt to explain away this discrepancy from the FE pov - I leave that to others! No - I'm thinking up a new explanation and theorising that the FE'ers may latch onto this one! As for me - not being of the FE creed, I don't have a problem.

So: I'm suggesting that the whole of the night sky is actually painted on a huge roller blind, and that there's a conspiracy by NASA to move the blind whenever you fly north or south - so as to deceive you into thinking the Earth is round.

Go on, FE'ers! Buy it! 

In the oft repeated Debunking Flat Earth Without Using Science
(a statement I find hilarious, because science is the method of knowing things, essentially saying "debunking FE by being an ignoramus"),  they show people looking outward.

But strictly speaking, you're looking upward.

Now why can you see the South Cross from the southern hemisphere but not the northern hemisphere?

As you know, there is convergence to a point from excessive distance, known as vanishing point. But exceedingly close distances also create that effect. When I goto to a book shelf and stick my eye about a mm from a book, the title «Condor Heroes» just shows the C. So what happens if the sky is centered at a point? The center spot looks like it's one star from nearby and zoomed out a bit, it looks like four stars. Because it is four stars.

Even science admits that the "Star of Bethlehem" was not a single star but a conjunction of two or more stars/planets.

The Star of Bethlehem is the North Star. The North Star is the Southern Cross. When they say "Jesus moved to his throne in heaven" what they mean is that the star that followed Jesus all his life moved to the center of Earth (which is the North Pole, not underground, in a FE model; your RE model is centered in Sheol, mine faces upward toward the sky) where it can readily be seen from every direction. The Southern Cross btw does not "point south". It is like a NES gamepad, allowing the viewer to find W, N, E, S directions.

Eeeekkk!!!! 

But strictly speaking, you're looking upward.

Sigh..

You can look north and see the sky above without really looking “up”

Quote from: bulmabriefs144 on May 27, 2025, 06:37:35 PM

The longer the angle, the closer it appears to be to eye level.

Knowing your trolling ways.  What is eye level.  It can be in view but still be way above eye level or level with eye.  Knowing you Bulma, you think the tops of the light poles at the top of the picture are eye level because they are in view. 

Quote

majority of amateur astronomers

You mean stargazers?

We been over equatorial telescope mounts over and over.  And how it relates to the North Star and earh’s rotation.



Been over how simple dial star atlases work for their respective hemispheres.

So.  There are these simple but relatively accurate star atlases for the night sky.  They are based off month and time.  They are dial types that show the night sky for a certain time of year.

Northern hemisphere





Southern hemisphere



I would find it hard to believe that standard Star Atlas for the southern hemisphere would be accurate for a flat earth?

Been over comets..

Not great pictures.  But my first effort.  The lens autofocus wouldn’t lock on the comet.  Had to do it manually.  I now understand why it’s best to use a wide angle lens when the comet is at it’s brightest.  Took the pics tonight. 85mm lens with a crop sensor.  Canon R100. Various exposures.






This pic below is probably my best one exposure. 


Still interesting to watch the comet hang there as it sets lower and lower to the horizon.

Unfortunately, lots of camera shake despite using a tripod when it got closer to the tree.




I guess I should have used my smartphone to activate the camera remotely.

The comet will be a little higher above the horizon each night.  But will get farther away and more faint each night. 

Moving forward, capturing decent photos will take longer exposures, and a good mount that will match earth’s rotation to keep the comet from turning into a light trail / streak.  The comet in the longer exposure is streaked.

Been over why celestial South Pole has meaning and a reliable direction south..

Care to draw out how people in Australia, Africa, and South America can look south and see the constellation Southern Cross?  Where the Southern Cross can be a navigational aid to find south? Find the southern celestial pole. 



And not this..

Quote from: DataOverFlow2022 on March 22, 2024, 01:43:38 PM

Quote from: WISHTOLAUGH on March 22, 2024, 01:18:43 PM

No one uses Sigma Octatntis to navigate to the supposed south pole.

I've ignored nothing, but I am going to start now by ignoring your stupid bullshit.

??

You keep trying to change the subject with basically lying how navigation in the southern hemisphere works with a sextant.  It’s not based off the celestial South Pole for the southern hemisphere where Polaris isn’t visible because of the earth’s curvature? 

How to find the celestial South Pole makes sense on a globe / sphere.






The celestial South Pole is meaningless on a flat earth

The reason a dial star atlas of the southern hemisphere is accurate is due to the fact the earth is demonstrably spherical which results in persons looks south from Africa, Australia, or South America where they all look to the same southern celestial pole.  And they see the one celestial constellation the Southern cross circling the southern celestial pole. 

Been over Lahaina noon.

LAHAINA NOON IN HAWAIʻI: WHEN AND WHERE TO SEE IT (2025)

Did you know there’s a moment in Hawaiʻi when your shadow completely disappears? This rare tropical phenomenon, known as Lāhainā Noon, happens only twice a year—and only in the tropics. Here’s everything you need to know to witness it.




https://www.lovebigisland.com/hawaii-blog/lahaina-noon-when-and-where/

Path of the sun..

For a flat earth, the sun would orbit the northern celestial pole like this…



So time lapse photography should result in the sun making a circle around the celestial North Pole like one nights worth of star trails?  Similar like this?


https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/5cd57d59ca525b7e9eae595c/a3311d67-06f0-460b-8122-3b19dc423ff8/Startrail+northern+light+w+watermark.jpg

The sun should circle the celestial North Pole on a FE.

But the sun does this…. For six months…


media.9news.com/assets/KUSA/images/7fbcc9eb-dbf7-4c4e-b6e8-b7282b27549c/7fbcc9eb-dbf7-4c4e-b6e8-b7282b27549c_1140x641.jpg


Again.  Flat earth soundly debunked…

Been over the sun should change in apparent size and does not.

Quote from: bulmabriefs144 on May 28, 2025, 07:14:49 PM

So.  The sun on a FE should get farther away from me, and this should be apparent by the sun shrinking in size all afternoon.

Quote from: bulmabriefs144 on March 30, 2025, 06:48:02 AM

For the 1100th time, the parabola represents the narrowing perspective of vanishing point.

As pointed out and is obvious.  Your representation of the sun’s path doesn’t explain actual hours of daylight witnessed.

Requires the sun to rise and set north / south for large areas of the globe where those areas witness a due east sunrise and a due west sunset.

The sun circling overhead to a person just beside the path would change distance greatly and thus apparent size like an airplane being watched by a spectator at the edge of a pylon race.





The FE model, the sun would change distance from me in Ohio through the day. 


Yet then stays the same apparent size all afternoon. 

Notice something else about your picture?

 

The bottom of the picture rises up, like the arrow pointing up.  And the ceiling never gets below eye level.


And yet the setting sun goes below eye level.  And isn’t shrinking in apparent size like the doors in your photo.



Bulma, congrats!  You alone debunked FE again.

😂😂😂😂

Flat earth debunked and dead.  Except little trolls that can’t accept the fact the earth is spherical. 

The Southern Cross btw does not "point south". It is like a NES gamepad, allowing the viewer to find W, N, E, S directions.

Stupid comment.

Draw that out so three different people with one in Africa, one is South America, and one is Australia travel the same general direction called south. 

they show people looking outward.

Because that is what it has to be for your fantasy.
Multiple people looking outwards, in opposite directions, yet still somehow seeing the same thing.
Your nonsense makes no sense.

But strictly speaking, you're looking upward.

Again, for your fantasy, you are looking a combination of upwards and outwards.
These people are not looking straight up. They are looking to the south. This requires them to look in different directions. Yet they still somehow see the same thing, as if the south actually converges to a real physical point, the south pole and they are all looking towards this point.

As you know, there is convergence to a point

And we know this has absolutely nothing to do with this.
If it was about convergence making it vanish, then the constellation would appear to shrink until it becomes an unresolved point.
So that clearly isn't it as it appears to set while still clearly resolvable.

The other big issue is that is the same issue that has been raised countless times.
You can have 2 locations, where one is more distant from the point the southern cross is directly above, yet that more distant location can see it while the nearer location can't.

stick my eye about a mm from a book

You restrict your FOV to a tiny area.
But if you point it in different directions, you can see other things.
This argument would rely upon people only looking straight up.
And it would also mean they can also see a tiny portion of it.

To try to make this in any way comparable, you have your word, Condor Heroes, the person in the centre looking up can only see the r at the end of Condor. Then people much further out would see the C in condor and s in heroes, yet somehow they are the same and seeing the same thing.
It is pure nonsense.
It doesn't help you at all.

The North Star is the Southern Cross.

No, they are in completely different directions, and plenty of locations can see both.