Pangea and FE Theory?

We know things...

Quote from: Ski on May 02, 2011, 09:35:45 PM

We know things...

enlighten me

this is the best forum ever, seriously, I am hooked, it's like watching a paraplegic trying to cartwheel and inventing ever more elaborate theories as to how he could do it, if only he could ignore certain physical facts, then it would be true..

I giggled at your comparison of a REer trying to argue his theory to a paraplegic trying to do cartwheels

Quote from: karl on May 03, 2011, 06:56:48 AM

this is the best forum ever, seriously, I am hooked, it's like watching a paraplegic trying to cartwheel and inventing ever more elaborate theories as to how he could do it, if only he could ignore certain physical facts, then it would be true..

Please watch your tone.  I admit, I giggled at your comparison of a REer trying to argue his theory to a paraplegic trying to do cartwheels, but such a crude and indecent analogy just doesn't belong in the serious discussion boards, however apt it may be.

Lucky for us, then, that the continents do not in fact float around all over the place.

Quote from: James on May 05, 2011, 12:43:01 PM

Lucky for us, then, that the continents do not in fact float around all over the place.

Are you seriously arguing against plate tectonics? Are you claiming the geologists are in the big Conspiracy now also? Are they lying about magnetic bands demonstrating sea floor spreading? And the timeline of fossils being in locations consistent with continental drift is also part of conspiracy or is it just more evidence that will be ignored. I'm a little confused as to why you are making this argument since naive plate tectonics does not by itself run into any problems with a flat earth.

Lucky for us, then, that the continents do not in fact float around all over the place.

Quote from: James on May 05, 2011, 12:43:01 PM

Lucky for us, then, that the continents do not in fact float around all over the place.

Sadly for Japan, they do.

Quote from: JoshuaZ on May 05, 2011, 12:51:48 PM

Quote from: James on May 05, 2011, 12:43:01 PM

Lucky for us, then, that the continents do not in fact float around all over the place.

Are you seriously arguing against plate tectonics? Are you claiming the geologists are in the big Conspiracy now also? Are they lying about magnetic bands demonstrating sea floor spreading? And the timeline of fossils being in locations consistent with continental drift is also part of conspiracy or is it just more evidence that will be ignored. I'm a little confused as to why you are making this argument since naive plate tectonics does not by itself run into any problems with a flat earth.

Fossilized human remains are found on almost every continent on Earth. Are you suggesting that continental drift happened recently enough and vigorously enough to distribute human remains all over the Earth? There's a much more straightforward and sensible explanation.

Fossil human remains have well-understood migratory patterns. And humans are the exception, not the rule. Most species have much smaller ranges. The key issue is that many extinct species have *small* ranges (often less than a full continent) but occurred on multiple continents.

Moreover, the different mapping data from this for different species is interconsistent- one gets the same overall map for many different species from many different niches.

Please keep in mind that in the early part of the 20th century, most scientists did not think that any form of plate tectonics was correct. By 1975  almost every geologist accepted plate tectonics because the evidence had convinced them. If there were other plausible interpretations of the data that didn't require accepting a new very broad hypothesis they would have done that. 

There is no evidence that dinosaurs, a group which never invented so much as a simple tool, gained the ability to cross entire oceans when it is obvious from their fossils that multiple landlocked (i.e., cannot swim!) species were found on multiple continents, which themselves even visually appear to fit together.

There is also no evidence of dinosaurs practicing agriculture or keeping livestock. Yes I understand that this was probably a trolling comment, but in case it wasn't, I'm just saying that there is no empirical evidence. If there is, provide it and I'll shut up.

By 1975, EVERY geologist had agreed that the Earth was round, because every shred of evidence and math they used showed them that it was, and nothing - nothing - demonstrated anything to the contrary.

It is not true that dinosaurs have never invented so much as a simple tool; in fact, it is demonstrably false.  There is ample footage of dinosaurs building all manner of wonderful tools, they build a great many ingenious structures all the time.

The inability to swim does not stop somebody from building a raft in order to traverse the high seas, people do it all the time.  Most 16th century sailors were unable to swim, it is only a relatively recent cultural phenomenon that a sailor is expected to be able to swim (and a silly one too, because the whole point of a boat is that one does not have to swim).

I disagree.  If you look at sea-faring migratory societies such as the pilgrim fathers and the Egyptians you will see that in the vast majority of cases they made extensive use of agriculture.  This is because if every body is hunting and gathering all the time, it leaves a very limited amount of time to practice building boats.

There are many geologists who to this day do not believe that the Earth is round. Get your facts right.

Quote from: James on May 06, 2011, 06:48:45 PM

It is not true that dinosaurs have never invented so much as a simple tool; in fact, it is demonstrably false.  There is ample footage of dinosaurs building all manner of wonderful tools, they build a great many ingenious structures all the time.

Provide even one frame of footage, even the slightest legitimate evidence that this is true, and I will delete my account and make a new one that is pro FE.

Quote from: James on May 06, 2011, 06:48:45 PM

The inability to swim does not stop somebody from building a raft in order to traverse the high seas, people do it all the time.  Most 16th century sailors were unable to swim, it is only a relatively recent cultural phenomenon that a sailor is expected to be able to swim (and a silly one too, because the whole point of a boat is that one does not have to swim).

Of course, but those are people. People thousands of years and many generations beyond the inception of simple toolmaking, a feat that dinosaurs never achieved.

Quote from: James on May 06, 2011, 06:48:45 PM

I disagree.  If you look at sea-faring migratory societies such as the pilgrim fathers and the Egyptians you will see that in the vast majority of cases they made extensive use of agriculture.  This is because if every body is hunting and gathering all the time, it leaves a very limited amount of time to practice building boats.

Again, those are people, not dinosaurs. This was well documented for ancient humans, but completely undocumented for dinosaurs (which went extinct millions and millions of years ago, before humans walked the planet)

Quote from: James on May 06, 2011, 06:48:45 PM

There are many geologists who to this day do not believe that the Earth is round. Get your facts right.

Please provide a link to a geologist who believes the Earth is flat, who has said so since 1975, and who has a demonstrable (i.e., available for us to verify) degree in geology.

Here is a video of some dinosaurs building a house.  You can see they are very artful at using their mouths and hands in the construction process:

In that video they are actually building sex houses, in their culture it is normal to build a new house every time you want to have sex, because they don't like to have sex in old or ugly looking houses.  It explains that bit at the end.

I look forward to debating with you on your new account, but please negotiate with the administrators to delete you old one because having more than one account is against the site rules.

Dinosaurs most certainly mastered the art of simple toolmaking, as I can amply demonstrate.  They also had many more millions of years than humans to perfect all manner of ingenious crafts.

You seem to be quite racist about the abilities of dinosaurs. Just because they aren't mammals it doesn't mean they can't do all the things you can do.

There are plenty of us on this site.  I have not said so since 1975 because I was a reformed globularist who only recanted after the millenium; I don't know about Tom Bishop, Dionysius or Crustinator for example, it is possible that they've been saying so since 1975 but I don't actually know their personal histories.  You should ask them.  Other famous geologists from history include Samuel Rowbotham (who was saying it since the mid 19th century) and Charles K Johnson (who said it during the period you are talking about).

Quote from: James on May 06, 2011, 07:20:50 PM

Here is a video of some dinosaurs building a house.  You can see they are very artful at using their mouths and hands in the construction process:

In that video they are actually building sex houses, in their culture it is normal to build a new house every time you want to have sex, because they don't like to have sex in old or ugly looking houses.  It explains that bit at the end.

I look forward to debating with you on your new account, but please negotiate with the administrators to delete you old one because having more than one account is against the site rules.

When I say dinosaurs, I mean what the general public and nearly every human being on the planet will mean. Not modern day birds, the descendents of dinosaurs. Yes, I am aware that birds or officially a type of dinosaur. I should have been more specific in my post. I am referring to ancient dinosaurs. The ones that went extinct. The ones whose fossils, from which we can tell they could not swim and probably could not manipulate tools, are still found across multiple continents.

In fact, not only dinosaurs, but many ancient fossilized remains of all manner of creatures have the same phenomenon. Some were amphibious, many were not.

Quote from: James on May 06, 2011, 07:20:50 PM

Dinosaurs most certainly mastered the art of simple toolmaking, as I can amply demonstrate.  They also had many more millions of years than humans to perfect all manner of ingenious crafts.

Nowhere in that video did even birds, the "dinosaurs" with the longest time to have evolved, create and use simple tools.

Quote from: James on May 06, 2011, 07:20:50 PM

You seem to be quite racist about the abilities of dinosaurs. Just because they aren't mammals it doesn't mean they can't do all the things you can do.

Dinosaurs were a group of different species, with different races. Racism is not the correct term, and you are using it to troll. At least try, man. And is not the fact that they aren't mammals that makes me say they can't do the things I can. The fossil record and the sum total of all paleontological, archaeological, biological, and historical evidence is what makes me say that they couldn't do all the things that I can do.

Quote from: James on May 06, 2011, 07:20:50 PM

There are plenty of us on this site.  I have not said so since 1975 because I was a reformed globularist who only recanted after the millenium; I don't know about Tom Bishop, Dionysius or Crustinator for example, it is possible that they've been saying so since 1975 but I don't actually know their personal histories.  You should ask them.  Other famous geologists from history include Samuel Rowbotham (who was saying it since the mid 19th century) and Charles K Johnson (who said it during the period you are talking about).

I am well aware that you people call yourselves geologists. What I asked for was proof that you are geologists.

Dinosaurs did not go extinct, they evolved into birds (modern dinosaurs).  It is not my fault if the general public do not know what a dinosaur is.

Quote

Yes they did. Nearly all species of dinosaur went extinct in the Cretaceous period. Only a few species survived the extinction event, including the ancestors of modern day birds. Aside from birds there were over 500 distinct genera and over 1,000 different species of non-avian (not a bird!) dinosaurs. Almost none of them survived the extinction event.

Quote from: James on May 06, 2011, 07:41:52 PM

Here is another video clip from the same series in which a dinosaur uses tools for farming insects.  As if building a sex house wasn't enough.

Well, you got me there. I did not know that birds used tools. This is still a far cry from building ocean-faring rafts/boats though. And considering the birds are the longest lived and highly evolved group of dinosaurs, I don't think it would be reasonable to claim that ancient dinosaurs could travel across oceans. Especially when no evidence exists to support that claim.

Quote from: James on May 06, 2011, 07:41:52 PM

Racists often try to use biological and historical evidence to back up their horrible arguments.  You will not win me over to your hate with this sort of argument, however.

You know who else uses biological and historical evidence? Everyone else. You forgot paleontological and archeological by the way.

Quote from: James on May 06, 2011, 07:41:52 PM

You did not, in fact, ask for proof that we were geologists.  However, I think you will find that the definition of a geologist is that they study the shape of the Earth.  If you need evidence of that, you can look on the rest of this website, because we have all made lots of posts showing that we have been studying that.

...

Quote from: c47man on May 06, 2011, 07:06:45 PM

Please provide a link to a geologist who believes the Earth is flat, who has said so since 1975, and who has a demonstrable (i.e., available for us to verify) degree in geology.

Did you miss that?

And in case degrees in geology are no longer required to be a geologist:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geologist

Geologist - "A geologist is a scientist who studies the solid and liquid matter that constitutes the Earth as well as the processes and history that has shaped it."

Geologist Education - "Their training typically includes significant coursework in physics, mathematics, and chemistry, in addition to classes offered through the geology department; historical and physical geology, igneous and metamorphic petrology and petrography, hydrogeology, sedimentology, stratigraphy, mineralogy, palaeontology, physical geography and structural geology are among the many required areas of study. Most geologists also need skills in GIS and other mapping techniques. Geology students often spend portions of the year, especially the summer though sometimes during a January term, living and working under field conditions with faculty members (often referred to as "field camp"). Many non-geologists often take geology courses or have expertise in geology that they find valuable to their fields; this is common in the fields of geography, engineering, chemistry, urban planning, environmental studies, among others."

So please. Prove to me that you are a geologist, and not somebody who says they are in order to attempt to accrue creditability for your assertions.

Quote from: James on May 06, 2011, 07:41:52 PM

Dinosaurs did not go extinct, they evolved into birds (modern dinosaurs).  It is not my fault if the general public do not know what a dinosaur is.

Yes they did. Nearly all species of dinosaur went extinct in the Cretaceous period. Only a few species survived the extinction event, including the ancestors of modern day birds. Aside from birds there were over 500 distinct genera and over 1,000 different species of non-avian (not a bird!) dinosaurs. Almost none of them survived the extinction event.

Quote from: James on May 06, 2011, 07:41:52 PM

Here is another video clip from the same series in which a dinosaur uses tools for farming insects.  As if building a sex house wasn't enough.

Well, you got me there. I did not know that birds used tools. This is still a far cry from building ocean-faring rafts/boats though. And considering the birds are the longest lived and highly evolved group of dinosaurs, I don't think it would be reasonable to claim that ancient dinosaurs could travel across oceans. Especially when no evidence exists to support that claim.

Quote from: James on May 06, 2011, 07:41:52 PM

Racists often try to use biological and historical evidence to back up their horrible arguments.  You will not win me over to your hate with this sort of argument, however.

You know who else uses biological and historical evidence? Everyone else. You forgot paleontological and archeological by the way.

Geologist - "A geologist is a scientist who studies the solid and liquid matter that constitutes the Earth as well as the processes and history that has shaped it."

Geologist Education - "Their training typically includes significant coursework in physics, mathematics, and chemistry, in addition to classes offered through the geology department; historical and physical geology, igneous and metamorphic petrology and petrography, hydrogeology, sedimentology, stratigraphy, mineralogy, palaeontology, physical geography and structural geology are among the many required areas of study. Most geologists also need skills in GIS and other mapping techniques. Geology students often spend portions of the year, especially the summer though sometimes during a January term, living and working under field conditions with faculty members (often referred to as "field camp"). Many non-geologists often take geology courses or have expertise in geology that they find valuable to their fields; this is common in the fields of geography, engineering, chemistry, urban planning, environmental studies, among others."

So please. Prove to me that you are a geologist, and not somebody who says they are in order to attempt to accrue creditability for your assertions.

Lucky for us, then, that the continents do not in fact float around all over the place.

Yes, there are birds that can engage in rudimentary tool building. Corvids sometime do this in the wild. That says nothing at all about the sort of toolbuilding necessary to build boats. And trying to claim that nestbuilding is at all akin to genuine toolbuilding is just silly since nestbuilding is an evolved instinct; birds who have never been around a nest and are raised by humans will still engage in nest building behavior.Even by the (low) standards of this forum, this is ridiculous.