taxes don't steal from people, people steal from people

So exchanged money for goods and services is a tax now?

If you dont want to mail something, then you dont need to be "taxed" by the mail man.

Thw mail man is not incharge of transactions.
He is in charge of delivery.
The stamp is a receipt, a proof of purchase.
A ticket.
If a mailman had to handle transactions it would be ridiculously inefficient and open for either  corruption or robbery.



You are spectacular.

Quote from: Lorddave on April 10, 2024, 11:04:24 AM

Saying a product (stamps) is a tax, just made me not want to bother replying to the rest if your rant.

Remember history? Or is it too much of a bother to think outside your own bias filter?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stamp_Act_1765

So under British occupation, you're paying in for stamped paper in order to use certain goods and services. Now why does this sound familiar?

Oh wait, don't we need a stamp or embossment to prove that legal documents are legal? Aren't witnesses required to pay money to notarize things?
And aren't stamps required to send even the smallest parcel of mail?

If mail were based on a distance & weight flat price, this would be one thing, or if stamps were a regular product that can be sold at competitive prices, that's another. But nope, stamps (like money) made by someone other that the US government is considered a counterfeit, and instead of prices being dictated by markets, they are determined by regulations.
https://about.usps.com/newsroom/national-releases/2024/0409-usps-recommends-new-prices-for-july-2024.htm

That. Is. A. Tax.

They file with the Postal Regulatory Commission, and they nationwide raise the price of postage.

Corn Flakes (a product, rather than a tax) does not increase based on a commission. It doesn't use government regulation to reset the price. Because it is a product, real markets determine the value. Walmart may charge one price, and Trader Joe's another. Hell, the same chain may charge a different price in a different town or state to compete with existing stores.

If you could competitively buy any adhesive stamp from any store at any price, that would not be a tax. But the monopoly on stamps means that you cannot get any discount or deal. You are paying a tax for the service of mail delivery.

Quote

I have studied this thread and I still don't know if taxes steal from people.

So, the simple question you ask yourself, "Did I buy my taxes?"

If the government sold whiskey in competition with other alcohol sellers, not a tax. They grow the wheat, they run the still? That's a government-owned business, not a government tax. Only get to show from ABC or package stores? Tax. Add $0.15 to whiskey sales? Tax.

A tax is something that unlike goods, is not bought. It's paid for under duress, it's payment for something unearned. In a funny scene in a movie called L.A. Story, this guy when they are coming out of a restaurant says "Hi my name is Bob. I'll be your robber." That's a tax. It's a purchase that nobody wants, but everyone expects.

Yes, taxes steal from people.

Do we have a choice in what taxes or how much we pay? No? Then it's a theft.

There's problems with that.

1. The stamps go to funding the US Postal Service.  Thus, its no different than the stamps UPS puts on their packages.
2. They ARE a flat rate based on weight and distance.  Have you never mailed anything bigger than a letter outside the US?  Distance for parcels anywhere in the US is 1 rate with weight classes increasing the amount of stamps (price) you need.  Once you go beyond the US borders, the price increases per stamp.  You can't mail a letter from New York to England without more stamps.
3. What do you call UPS or Fedex when they take your money to mail a letter and put a label on it?  That's a stamp with a barcode.

When market-based products (such as food or clothing or wine or gas (despite wine and gas being taxed, it is still governed by market values)) are sold, market competition drives prices down. That prices are high in those areas has to do with scarcity and cost of business, but is high despite things. Business want to make a profit but they also to a large extent want to undercut other businesses.

When you go to buy tax products, they inflate directly based on the government rate of inflation. There is literally nothing to drive the price of stamps down, so one day, a single stamp might be as much as $75. It is only reasonably cheap because the government deigns that it be so. If government wanted your money now, they could make it so prices of postage are absurd in comparison to other prices. They could even justify this as "preventing the post office from bankruptcy."

1. The stamps go to funding the US Postal Service.  Thus, its no different than the stamps UPS puts on their packages.

They go to lining the pockets of politicians.

Those aren't stamps. When you go to UPS online, they tell you that they offer USPS stamps. Where are the UPS stamps? Where are the Fedex stamps? Oh ummm, those are illegal.

Just as restaurant do not make soft drinks but rather buy the tap from Coke or Pepsi, the UPS does not make stamps but sub-lets them from USPS. The difference is that I could technically buy a soda fountain, make an orange and a lime concentrate, and sell Orange SMASH! and XTREME Lime in my restaurant. I'd probably need a special soda license for liability of selling homemade soda.

But the USPS does the equivalent of saying nobody can make "soda". There aren't any homebrew stamps. They have actual security features to prevent makig much cheaper stamps.

2. They ARE a flat rate based on weight and distance.  Have you never mailed anything bigger than a letter outside the US?  Distance for parcels anywhere in the US is 1 rate with weight classes increasing the amount of stamps (price) you need.  Once you go beyond the US borders, the price increases per stamp.  You can't mail a letter from New York to England without more stamps.
3. What do you call UPS or Fedex when they take your money to mail a letter and put a label on it?  That's a stamp with a barcode.

You're describing international prices. That's apples and oranges. National prices for letter delivery are a "flat" rate... that keeps climbing. Rather that charging a more reasonable distance and weight price (with regular letters delivered locally being free), we have a fakely cheap stamp system that is supposed to convince us that it's supporting the mail service. But bailouts are supporting the mail service.

Those barcode stamp things are printed using tools from the USPS. UPS and FedEx are private franchises of a very public goverment-run business. At any time, just as government could raise prices of stamps to outrageous levels, the Postal Service could simply require all private mail systems to be approved.

https://www.nationalreview.com/2021/04/corporations-dont-pay-corporate-taxes-people-do/

Interesting. It's almost like something I've been saying before.

First, corporations do not pay any corporate tax — individuals do. That is because companies pass on their costs. Some of the tax is paid by consumers, who pay higher prices. Company employees pay some of the tax through lower wages. And investors’ retirement accounts pay some of the tax through lower returns.

So, while it might be good politics to stick it to big corporations — or at least to posture that way in front of voters and television cameras — a corporate tax-rate hike would not accomplish its intended goal. Instead, taxes are paid by individuals who then get less for their money, receive smaller paychecks, and have a harder time saving for retirement.

The Tax Foundation’s Stephen J. Entin estimated in 2017 that labor pays 70 percent or more of the corporate tax. Differences aside, these studies share a common conclusion: Ultimately, corporations themselves pay no corporate tax.

No matter how much you might want to, you simply can't tax corporations. You wind up taxing yourself.

https://www.nationalreview.com/2021/04/corporations-dont-pay-corporate-taxes-people-do/

Interesting. It's almost like something I've been saying before.

Quote

First, corporations do not pay any corporate tax — individuals do. That is because companies pass on their costs. Some of the tax is paid by consumers, who pay higher prices. Company employees pay some of the tax through lower wages. And investors’ retirement accounts pay some of the tax through lower returns.

So, while it might be good politics to stick it to big corporations — or at least to posture that way in front of voters and television cameras — a corporate tax-rate hike would not accomplish its intended goal. Instead, taxes are paid by individuals who then get less for their money, receive smaller paychecks, and have a harder time saving for retirement.

Quote

The Tax Foundation’s Stephen J. Entin estimated in 2017 that labor pays 70 percent or more of the corporate tax. Differences aside, these studies share a common conclusion: Ultimately, corporations themselves pay no corporate tax.

No matter how much you might want to, you simply can't tax corporations. You wind up taxing yourself.

Then corporate tax is eliminated and replaced with Sales Tax!

How is that working out?

Bumba would rather a society much like medival europe with lords and barons.