1

Flat Earth Debate / Re: They've lied to the world about the stars

« on: June 09, 2025, 12:58:00 AM »

But we can infer there was no benefit to anybody for any of those astronomers to draw something they didnt see of Saturn, and say that is what they saw. There was no personal benefit to lying, and no benefit to the scientific community in lying, especially when other astronomers could verify or refute what other astronomers said they observed

No benefit? Are you serious?

They were already among the richest elite on Earth at the time, but they wanted to become Gods.

You’ve heard of NASAs Herschel telescope? Named after the person who made these claims centuries ago?

Herschel and all the early astronomers were noble elites, who founded this false ‘science’.

They are seen as immortals today, centuries later.

I’m sure they didn’t benefit at all, though!

It’s odd that you are so sure they didn’t benefit, since you’d know they became famous and even more wealthy from making their bs claims to the world.

The last resort of a failed argument is saying it had no personal benefit for them to lie.

There’s no way of ever knowing if anyone would benefit from lying, and people lie for no benefit at all, sometimes. It isn’t relevant, it’s speculation, and it has no bearing on whether or not they lied.

I’ve already told you they did benefit, proven by NASA naming a telescope after Herschel. It’s hardly surprising NASA said Herschel timed Saturn very accurately, but why would NASA even refer to Herschels findings from over 200 years ago? Wouldn’t others have studied Saturn, and looked at Herschels reports afterwards? Using superior telescopes? Obviously they would, it’s common sense and happens all the time.

I’ve seen your same reaction of anger against me for absolutely no reason or provocation many times before. I know what it stems from, insecurity and fear of being lied to. It’s no big deal, insults don’t bother me, it’s childish and a waste of time dealing with it.

If you really have no clue about how those within the same group or connected as one are NOT independent, you’ve been living in a cave all your life. It’s like saying ‘other mafia members said the other mafia member was innocent, we were with him all night the murder took place!’.

Other astronomers didn’t say Herschel was wrong or lied, they supported his claims as true! So did NASA over 200 years later! NASA even said their results were very accurate considering how long ago they were made!

I shouldn’t ever have to explain to you how incredibly stupid this all is, but it seems I have to!

Independent sources are us, the people of the world, who don’t work or are connected to NASA or astronomers or any field involved in space’. That’s a lot of people and groups, all connected together as one group.

They work for space industry, of course they are connected and support each other

No benefits. I'm deadly serious.

Those astronomers were paid to make observations about other stars and other planets, using instruments called telescopes, and another instrument I'm sure you are extremely familiar with - your dominant hand, to draw what they saw.

They were paid to make more powerful telescopes in order to make more pioneering observations of which cannot be seen with the unaided eye.

Herschel was a pioneer in astronomy, which is a highly reputable field of scientific study, Turbonium. If Herschel or any of those astronomers lied, their peers would swoop in like hungry wolves to contradict with their own observations, and have Herschell or the lying astronomer disavowed. That never happened, Turbonium. That's the facts.

I only throw you insults when you deserve it, and you fully deserve it. Your knowledge of Saturn for instance excludes anything coming from NASA, which is stupid because NASA have the most state of the art telescopes on this planet. NASA also have some of the best photography and video of Saturn. After all these years of this thread, you still haven't bought your own telescope and looked at Saturn first hand.

If you are an independent source on this matter, Turbonium, what telescope are you using or have created?

I already posted up comparison photos of those drawings of Saturn from astronomers 300 years ago, against modern photos of Saturn which look almost identical, bands and all.

All professional astronomers since Herschel, the world over, as well as amateur astronomers, corroborate what Herschel and they other astronomers saw, with their observations and photography of Saturn. No astronomer anywhere on record has ever disputed what Herschel or other astronomers hundreds of years ago, saw.

The only person anywhere claiming they lied, is a non-astronomer who has never looked through a telescope - YOU. So, tell us again, what they have lied about?  The bands look the same!

From comparison photos against those old drawing of Saturn, Saturn looks like it hasn't changed one little bit in the last 300 Earth years!

This is your argument, Turbonium. So, provide a motive for any of those astronomers to have lied about what they saw of Saturn. Then you can explain why no astronomer since then, has gone public and refuted what those astronomers said they saw, if any lies or inaccuracy were recorded.

Turbonium, there is always a reason for someone to tell a lie. There is always a kickback. If you can't provide any reason, and you have nothing to corroborate your argument, those astronomers lied, then your argument is busted.

2

Flat Earth Debate / Re: They've lied to the world about the stars

« on: June 08, 2025, 01:18:31 PM »

No, you cannot twist this issue, because I am the one who brought this issue up to you and everyone else.

I don’t care how many times you say the issue I brought up in the first place isn’t the issue, spew about the issue being what I think of only REAL issue, which isn’t even possible to be an issue, my view is on the issue, which is their claims about Saturn.

That is called a view or opinion on an issue, you idiot. They aren’t claims or issues, my view wouldn’t exist if there wasn’t an issue to GIVE a view on!

You’re just trying to hide like a coward from the issue I brought up, because you cannot defend their claims at all, and you know there’s no proof at all for their claims.

Then you say you aren’t defending their claims, you don’t know if they’re true or not. 

That’s what you think of the real issue, that you aren’t sure about their claims, and say you don’t care about their claims.

That’s all you have to say about the issue, it is ALSO a view on the issue. Same as I have a view on them.

You act like my view on it is the issue, which is complete bs. I’m entitled to my own view on it, same as anyone is entitled to their own views.

But you are not going to twist my opinion on their claims as being the issue, it is a VIEW on the ONLY issue here.

If you want to prove they aren’t liars, because that’s my VIEW on them, backed by conclusive evidence, it’s up to you to show proof FOR multiple distinct belts on Saturn being there, and when you’ll not find any proof for it, as none exists, my view of them as liars is the only possible explanation for it.

You fucking inbred.

There is no way of knowing if they were telling the truth or not, because their view of Saturn was 300 plus years ago, as were the drawings they made of Saturn. Drawing what they saw through their telescope, was the only way of recording what they saw through their telescope.

But we can infer there was no benefit to anybody for any of those astronomers to draw something they didnt see of Saturn, and say that is what they saw. There was no personal benefit to lying, and no benefit to the scientific community in lying, especially when other astronomers could verify or refute what other astronomers said they observed. There is no refutations between astronomers in history saying another astronomer couldn't have seen what they said they saw.

On the balance of probabilities, no astronomer lied. For an inbred like you to claim one of them did lie, you have to at least reach a balance of probabilities that they lied, and you can't. You can never ever prove beyond a reasonable doubt any of them lied, because you cannot time travel back and stand beside them and see what they saw through their telescope.and compare that to the drawings they made.

I cannot believe anybody, including myself, is giving a waste of space like you the time of day, on your fuckheadedness.

3

Flat Earth Debate / Re: They've lied to the world about the stars

« on: June 07, 2025, 02:27:30 PM »

It’s because anyone else who had made those very same claims, who had no proof for these claims, or any other incredible claims, and had no proof for them, and after many years later, evidence proved him as a liar….

An iPhone, your argument is toast

Are you talking about your bible here? No proof for their claims or any other incredible claims, sounds to me like any passage of your bible. After many years, evidence proved him as a liar, again could refer to anybody who played a part in writing that idiotic bible you read. An iPhone, yes, your entire bible is toast.

The spirits of those long dead astronomers are laughing hysterically at your stupid stupid false allegations. Is this argument of yours for their benefit, because you think comedy is few and far between in the afterlife? If you want to give them a real laugh, Turbonium, pull your pants down.

4

Flat Earth General / Re: WHY would the government trick us?

« on: June 07, 2025, 02:13:02 PM »

Bulma, clearly you are having some sort of drug induced psychotic episode with that last mindless rant. Just which drug, is anybody's guess. But given that you're poor, I'd say magic mushrooms growing out of your cow manure.

Kabool, you are allowed to type more than one word per post. However, your last carefully chosen word is powerful and on point. Killing 2 birds with the one stone, ey?

Black, clearly you are having some sort of drug induced psychotic episode with that last mindless rant. Just which drug, is anybody's guess. But given that you're filthy rich with a big nose, I'd say a kilo of cocaine you just snorted.

5

Flat Earth Debate / Re: They've lied to the world about the stars

« on: June 06, 2025, 08:52:09 PM »

Turbonium, your argument here, is even weaker than the argument the entire Earth is flat like a pancake.

That's how piss weak your argument here is. You could try to demonstrate your argument using photos of Saturn from your favourite amateur astronomers using camera phones, but you don't even try. It's just pathetic.

Your argument is laughable. You are just posting for the sake of being heard as a moron.

Those astronomers drew what they saw. End of story.

There was no lying. There was nothing to lie about, and nothing to be gained from lying.

It's astronomy, something you know fuck all about like your knowledge of Earth geography.

You will never do your own research by purchasing your own telescope, like how Mark Sargent tells you to do your own research. You will never build your own telescope like how Mark Sargent tells you to do your own research. What kind of a flat earther are you anyway?

You fly off the coat tails of real amateur researchers. You aren't even a researcher.

At most, you are a try-hard Christian nerd with your nose glued to the inside of your bible. My guess - glued to the Old testament - Genesis, the first page.

6

Flat Earth General / Re: WHY would the government trick us?

« on: June 06, 2025, 02:31:22 PM »

That's because Indonesia's coast looks like this:


Our "green new deals" are their ruined shores. The trash that we refuse to burn for fuel becomes their crisis.

Bulma, is there any reason stopping you getting a government job?

If you landed a government job, you would gain a first hand insight into the workings of the government, and at the same time find yourself with a steady income and job security.

You obviously have a passion for social injustice and the environment. Global warming isn't going to be your thing for obvious reasons, but there are other environmental causes you could sink your fangs into.  Maybe working as a public servant is your higher calling in life?

If I can offer any advice, it would be to stay well clear of Greta Thunberg in your environmental pursuits. I've heard she's ferocious in bed with an insatiable appetite for making people feel bad they were even born.

7

Flat Earth General / Re: WHY would the government trick us?

« on: June 06, 2025, 04:00:35 AM »

It's thanks to our survival instinct that any of us are alive at all, not thanks to government. Trump and RFK are more responsible than most. And no, Trump is not "disappearing" people. That Joseph Stalin treatment is more reserved for his opponents.

During COVID alot of people died from "following the science" and ignoring their instincts.

Food for years has been so tampered with that you can't even get a real burger.
https://www.makefoodsafe.com/whats-in-your-meat-common-food-additives-in-meat-you-should-know-about/
The FDA has approved nearly 4000 additives, for food, and some are not listed as ingredients because they are related to production. For example, feeding cattle baked goods alters the milk or meat chemistry, giving it trans fats that weren't added as ingredients.

Dimethylpolysiloxane!
This chemical used in silicone and commonly found in Silly Putty and breast implant filler is a common ingredient in chicken nuggets. Which, according to reports, only contains about 50% chicken. The remaining 50% of those golden morsels includes dimethylpolysiloxane and other synthetic ingredients.

Yummy!!!

Are you working at no longer being in poverty?

Your poverty and anger towards your government seeps into every one of your posts.

8

Flat Earth General / Re: WHY would the government trick us?

« on: June 05, 2025, 10:46:13 AM »

So naive. Let me explain this to you again.

The lizard people thing? It's true.
https://histoires-du-monde.com/en/indian-mythology/the-asuras-the-demons-of-indian-mythology/

Our "economy" is based on our faith in the currency. If the public suddenly says "you have no power over me" to the worthless cotton paper, all of a sudden, it starts to inflate and inflate until
*boom*
your fiat money is worth as much as the paper it's made of.

These lizard people get you to waste your money working hours on end for some boss who doesn't appreciate you, and paying income tax to boot.

If you're dead, they get your survivors to pay money. Not that they need money, it's a currency of human suffering. They get ppl involvedin senseless wars over archdukes or queens or some doofus saying something to the Russian leaders about Ukraine. You fight, you die for what you believe in, but it's all a sham. Your dead body is what these "people" want. Not your silly worthless paper money, your suffering, your death, your ultimate extinction.

The economy will never get out of debt, and these "people" don't really need the economy. It's a game to them. Inflate the currency, take the taxes, everyone is starving. Then like a chess game they've won, they simply revalue the currency and start again. Zimbabwe has literal gold deposits. Despite being backed by gold, their economy is still no good because they do not have goods or services! So their hyperinflated money is no good. South Korean Won are hyperinflated too, but this seems a modern civilized country. But the economy is screwed up by its rulers. Let's see, South Korea has all-pervasive CCTV, a loan shark proplem, and many people at the brink. Japan is alot more successful, but they have a major burnout problem known as hikkikomori, where people are pushed to work all the time and to conform, so some people can't take it. US has a big international dependence problem, and large amounts of human trafficking.

These are systems of human suffering. Those in power don't need there to be money. Barter works perfectly well. Instead they want digital "cashless" currency which has an even worse inflation problem than real currency.

If we all died next week, they would laugh for awhile, then use 23 And Me to clone all of us to suffer some more.

Markjo is right. Governments need living people to govern, not dead people. Besides, governments also need more people to have a strong country.

Sorry to burst your bubble, Bulma, but killing your own citizens, doesn't help a country.

Besides, the last time I checked, government employees and politicians, were you guessed it, not robots, they are people. Government officials and politicians cant govern a country of they are dead either, can they?

Your rationale falls apart extremely quickly, Bulma, with the slightest bit of logic applied.

Wait. You're not, oh yes, you are, you're a flat earther aren' you? It figures!

9

Flat Earth General / Re: WHY would the government trick us?

« on: June 04, 2025, 01:49:23 PM »

Safe?!? When a stupid kid plays around the grounds of the area, and there not even this outer rim

and you tell the public this is safe, only for the radius of those blades to be bigger than expected. We're not just talking birds any more. We're talking Too Dumb To Live children. Are you also okay with culling the stupid? And if they get more and more common, it's not just dumb kids you have to worry about. It's another "look both ways" because they are everywhere. Birds? We're not even done with birds, and you think it's safe enough for kids. Btw, our local elementary/high school has turbines. I wouldn't trust them around these things.

Wind turbine accidents involving humans can occur, often resulting from maintenance activities or fires. In 2011, there were 163 wind turbine accidents in England that led to 14 fatalities, primarily due to falls during maintenance work.

I was a kid once, and I happen to know just how stupid they can be. Daring each other to climb to the top, throwing rocks at one, only for it to bounce back and brain the kid or snap off a shard.

Catastrophically destroy themselves? No, if it cannot provide power at peak conditions, not even reduced power, it should destroy itself. I used to work at the library. Did I say, "Oh I'm sorry, 100 kids are coming in today because that's reading partners  or a homeschooling day, that's gonna be too much stress"? No, that's ridiculous, and I should be ashamed. Likewise, if it isn't sturdy enough to do its job when the chips are down, what good is it?

No, it wasn't.
What caused the problem where various power companies not caring to ensure their systems were reliable to provide power.

You always believe what the paper tells you? My brother is in Texas. He lives these things.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-56085733
BBC blames nonrenewable energy more. But they admit that indeed there is truth to claims that the turbines froze, and that indeed 16 GW were lost due to them not doing their job. Wind turbines account for 20% of the power in Texas. Had there been more wind turbines (like in California), this would be a higher percent of failures.

"In Texas today... a helicopter, using fossil fuels, spraying de-icer, made with fossil fuels, to de-ice a wind turbine, manufactured using fossil fuels, that is supposed to produce clean energy without using fossil fuels," one Facebook post says.

They later "discredit" the picture attached to this quote by claiming it came from Sweden. So what? Their words are still valid.

More importantly, for the other fuel sources, it was a matter of supply chains. Shipping coal, gas, or nuclear fuel all requires somehow making it past snowed in roads. But no such excuse existed for wind. They shut down because they needed antifreeze along with other winter precautions.
They could have used anti-freeze for the wind turbines, which they didn't use because "Texas hardly ever gets snow storms." Antifreeze contains ethylene glycol or propylene glycol. Okay, chemistry class anyone? Propylenes are derived from oil. Ethylene likewise is in groups of products made into plastic (though I think they are based around ethanol). The oil industry is directly responsible for wind turbines running correctly in bad weather! Not using fossil fuel is not just about burning fossil fuels. It's about building a future where we aren't creating plastic or oil in our oceans.

Both steam cracking and production from natural gas via ethane are estimated to emit 1.8 to 2kg of CO2 per kg ethylene produced, totalling over 260 million tonnes a year. This is more than all other manufactured chemicals except cement and ammonia.

And look at that Sweden picture again, and recall what I said about danger to humans. That chopper is within the spin radius of the blades. If it thaws suddenly, kachunk, the chopper is down and its pilot is dead.

I don't see how all this relates back to government trickery, Bulma?

Every fuel source has it's drawbacks.

Tidal derived energy has its drawbacks also.

But when we get there, free energy derived from Earth's atmosphere will eliminate the need for fossil fuels. It will no doubt utilise Earth's magnetic field and atmospheric electrical charges, not wind energy. Hygroelectricity is that field of study.

10

Flat Earth General / Re: WHY would the government trick us?

« on: June 01, 2025, 11:57:02 AM »

So what.

As I say, you have to deal with this problem and find a solution. You're trying to make a you decision my problem.

You could shorten the turbines and make the tips more like poles than the blades I can clearly see from that diagram.

You could fasten bells to the system, an approach in place since the khakkhara staves of Buddhism. The turbine swings the bell rings to freak out birds and warn them away.

You could suck it up, spend the extra expense and cage it anyway, creating that huge circle radius.

The point being, I'm through coddling psychopaths who think they can trick me into supporting their failed systems. Wind turbines do not work. They use enormous amounts of real estate to create subprime energy. They hinder actual growth of decent food from prime land. They leave corpses that they could have prevented
 This is a you problem, so it's time for you to clean it up. Yes, yes, I know as a child you were never caught or scolded, so you think you are entitled to do what you want. But that ends now. Wind turbines are the equivalent of taking a massive shit on an ecosystem, and trying to convince people this is okay. No, it's not okay, and it's time for you and those like you to start doing your part.

The means do not justify the ends. What, you thought I would say "the ends do not justify the means"? No, you have it backwards. You have noble-sounding ends. Ends justifies the means is about leaving a trail of dead bodies through unscrupulous means to, for instance, unify a kingdom. But you are fixated on your so-called proper actions, and denounce people who use improper ones (ohhh no, he/she is using oil). But it never occurs to you that if the means are actually destructive and inefficient, you never achieve your ends.

This is why it's a you problem. Your goals, your aims. Not In My Back Yard.

Would you prefer every wind turbine to be fitted with a special metal cage around each one, like on a pedestal fan? Only, any metal cage fitted would reduce the wind speed against the blades reducing power output. Aside from looking absolutely fucking ridiculous, you would have everybody saying, "Think of the birds".

Do you think of the birds whenever you see a helicopter take off or a propeller areoplane?

Maybe you should learn how to put on an apron and bake pigeon pie?

11

Flat Earth Debate / Re: They've lied to the world about the stars

« on: May 24, 2025, 04:40:50 AM »

In your extensive research, can you find an example of one of these astronomers saying they saw some feature on Saturn, and another astronomer calling them a liar because they couldn't see it? You say they wanted to present findings that nobody else could verify, and be worshipped as astronomy gods, yet I've already verified three of their drawings above. They were pioneers, not gods.

People always have a reason to lie. Nobody ever told a lie for no reason, because lying involves an intention to deceive. This is why it is wrong of Jack Black to call you or I a liar. Neither of us have an intention to deceive anybody. All your unintentional inaccuracies derive from misinformation and misconceptions. It isn't a lie if something I say is true. As for astronomers, lying about their observations is extremely unscientific. Lying in astronomy benefits nobody, and would quickly get you discredited.

You do know there were lots of astronomers looking at the various planets including, Sarurn, at the same time, right?

If you are serious about calling any of these astronomers from 200, 300, 400 years ago a liar then you must be an astronomer yourself who can't see what they documented they saw. You must be? So, I'd like to know what telescope you are using?

Otherwise, if you don't know how to use a telescope to look at Saturn or other luminaries, (and let's face it, you haven't posted any Saturn images you've taken yourself) you have no clue what you are talking about, and you have no place to call any of those astronomers liars.

It's as simple as that.

You can't start giving boxing advice when you've never put on a pair of gloves and stepped into the ring yourself, can you?

12

Flat Earth Debate / Re: They've lied to the world about the stars

« on: May 23, 2025, 11:47:57 PM »

The evidence shows they lied, we have clearly seen what Saturn looks like, moves constantly and rapidly in rotation, and nothing close to what they claimed to see.

In future, it will be clearer and sharper to see, and leave no doubts they lied to the world about Saturn.

It's in actual fact  the exact opposite to what you're saying, Turbonium. The clearer and sharper photos of Saturn are already here, which show all those astronomers were pretty good artists.

Saturn does not move rapidly around as you suggest. It moves for sure, but slowly to us here on Earth.

They had no reason to lie. Can you suggest a reason why they might lie about seeing something which they know all other astronomers will look for and verify or refute?

I'll post up some more comparison photos for your viewing pleasure, Turbonium.

13

Flat Earth Debate / Re: They've lied to the world about the stars

« on: May 23, 2025, 06:24:07 PM »

Firstly, strictly speaking it isn't the same atmosphere.
The composition has changed, but more importantly, they would be observing from a relatively calm atmosphere, instead of a much more turbulent atmosphere from a city.
But again, the bigger issue is the telescope.
And another issue is that they used their eyes, not a camera.

You are yet to even come close to demonstrating they would not be able to see it.

You’ve never demonstrated they WOULD be able to see it, since WE’VE never seen anything close to it!

You’ve got the burden of proof for their claims being valid and true, not me or others.

It’s absurd their claims were made over 200 years ago with a long ago scrapped telescope, and haven’t a shred of valid evidence for them to this very day!

We’ve seen Saturn close up with better telescopes, one you admit is vastly superior to theirs, and they show nothing close to what they claimed to see all the time.

Trying a hopelessly stupid argument that an iPhone camera blurred out multiple distinct rings into one large blotchy area that constantly changes shape along its edges, is simply ridiculous.

How in hell could an iPhone camera possibly do such things? Show me an example of an iPhone camera performing such magical things, I’d love to see it!!

We can easily prove what Saturn looks like through that same telescope, see it by eye, take videos through it with the best cameras, over and over again, night after night, to leave no doubt what Saturn looks like, it’s that simple to settle this debate once and for all.

What’s very odd here, is that their claims haven’t been replicated at all, validated by looking through this telescope or any other telescope since then by the public!

If they did see multiple distinct belts on Saturn and all the rest, we’d have seen the same things countless times since then, only better and clearer than they did back then!

The worlds greatest telescope built a century ago, has never taken an image or a video of Saturn through it for over a century, until someone filmed through it with an iPhone camera?!?!

Do you really believe that’s true?

Their claims were very significant and important, they described Saturn’s features, timed its very rotation with a distinct feature in a fixed position that later was seen at other positions, and this was why Saturn was considered a slowly rotating ‘planet’ like the ball Earth was claimed to be earlier on!!

That distinct fixed feature they claimed to see over many years, is the most important and significant feature that everyone afterwards would look for on Saturn with their own telescopes, and certainly take images and footage of it which wasn’t possible for them, at the time!

We’ve taken photos and images and films and videos of almost everything possible TO film and photograph on and above Earth, since cameras first existed, and ever since then!

We’ve taken photos and footage of microscopic life forms through microscopes for over a century, and back then an iPhone camera would be superior to what they had!

Turbonium, are you going to ignore me again? I'm going to be civil with you from here on out. Jack Black, hmm, not as much.

Tell me what you think the motive could have been for any of those astronomers 200, 300, 400 years ago, to lie?

I've already demonstrated quite clearly, two of those astronomers who saw pretty much exactly what today's cameras see of Saturn. They were definitely looking at Saturn and drawing Saturn, that's obvious. Their documented notes and drawings have been archived and can be carbon dated if you doubt their authenticity?

Perhaps you are confusing the feature you are talking about on Saturn, with one of Saturn's moons? Astronomers 200 years ago, saw quite clearly, Saturn had moons.

You have to understand that a telescope is just a long metal tube with a glass lens at either end. It's not rocket science.

All the evidence points to the astronomers from 200, 300, 400 years ago, recording what they could see of Saturn, by drawing what they saw, as best they could. They didn't have cameras, so drawing was the best they could do. These days we have super sophisticated telescopes with photo and video capability.

I think it's time you conceded you were wrong, Turbonium. None of those astronomers lied. They only drew and recorded what they saw.

It's well documented that both Galileio Galilei and Christiaan Huygens relied on observations of Saturn's moons to infer Saturn's length of rotation. They didn't rely on fixed features on Saturn's surface to measure Saturn's rotation, as you have been crapping on about.

14

Flat Earth Debate / Re: They've lied to the world about the stars

« on: May 21, 2025, 08:49:15 PM »

Now, I know William Herschel is one of the astonomers you have been accusing of lying. Yet, again, where is the lie? His drawings are crude, yet retain the basic shape of Saturn. Again, his drawings are actually pretty good, yet lacking the detail you get from the Hubble Space telescope as to be expected.

15

Flat Earth Debate / Re: They've lied to the world about the stars

« on: May 21, 2025, 07:48:03 PM »

Doesn't look like any lying from Sir John Herschel, Turbonium. Is he on your hit list of lying astronomers? In fact, his drawing is spectacularly close to the photo from the hubble space telescope, even if I do say so myself.

16

Flat Earth Debate / Re: They've lied to the world about the stars

« on: May 21, 2025, 07:05:34 PM »

How could they ever have seen multiple distinct belts on Saturn and see their edges, and see a distinct fixed in position feature on an edge of a belt, through the very same atmosphere we see through today, but we’ve never even seen Saturn motionless at all to even try to see what they claimed to see all the time for years?

What a joke this is. We have clearly seen that Saturn does not have multiple distinct belts at all, pnly one blotchy area with edges that move around on Saturn which id in constant rapid rotation, which you say is from an effect of atmosphere, so they’d see the same thing we do, if they did see it.

Dont tell me this bs about seeing Saturn motionless because we never have seen it motionless, that’s just bs.

Their claims are obviously bs, proven to be complete bs, simple as that.

Even with Saturn spinning on it's axis, the bands are horizontal and parallel with the direction of the spin. So, it's going to look motionless. Just like in this photo.

17

Flat Earth Debate / Re: They've lied to the world about the stars

« on: May 21, 2025, 06:55:43 PM »

Here you are again, calling someone a liar or a pathetic troll

Yes, calling a pathetic troll a pathetic troll, over a post which is clearly a troll post in which they lie about another to try to provoke a reaction.
Not surprising, at least not for anyone with a brain.
What's up? Upset I'm not taking your bait?

You took my bait, hook, line, and sinker! Calling me a pathetic troll twice in the same sentence is the reaction I was looking for.

BTW, there's nothing pathetic about my trolling. Yours on the other hand though? Trolling flat earthers on their own site? If somebody walked into my house and wiped the dog shit from their shoes on my nice carpet and started calling me a liar - I know where I'd be telling them to go.

This thread is about lying and astronomy. Specifically Saturn. The only way to end this silly thread is through photos. I've given you ample of time to obliterate Turbo's arguments by using photos.

18

Flat Earth Debate / Re: Yes, curvature can be measured and modeled as proven by Blackpool Photo

« on: May 21, 2025, 03:52:03 PM »

It’s entirely consistent over a flat surface of all heights above a flat surface to all distances to the horizons on a flat surface.

Entirely consistent with how perspective acts over a flat surface, appearing to always rise up as we rise above a flat surface and always see the horizon directly across from us at all heights above a long flat surface. No ball would work like this, it would keep on curving downward more and more as we rise higher above a ball Earth, it’s an absolute fact.

WRONG.

A theodolite proves the physical horizon is lower than your eye line and as you increase your altitude, so too, does the angle of difference between your eyeline snd the physical horizon line increase.

This is how you can measure earth curvature.

19

Flat Earth Debate / Re: They've lied to the world about the stars

« on: May 21, 2025, 03:02:20 PM »

You couldn't lie straight in bed. Now you lie about reading my last post properly. Anyone would think you're trying to imitate one of Turbo's 500 year dead astronomers!

Me making shit up? That's rich coming from the guy who calls anybody a liar who doesn't think exactly like he does! I do mean exactly, too, like a carbon copy. You seem to think everybody is a clone of you and get your knickers in a knot when you realise they are not.

I don't make anything up. You get extremely upset all the time when none of these flat earthers change a single thought or belief as a result of what you type. I'm 100% correct. You are trying to move the needle on their beliefs, and are holding out that one day you will succeed, so the last 20,000 posts you've made here, were not all in vain. You're fully committed.

Let me guess. You hold the world record for getting kicked out of stand-up-comedy school in the shortest time ever?

Your sense of humor like your lying is identical to any one of those dead astronomers- dead pan.

Yes, making shit up, including basically everything in that useless post of yours.
Yet that wont stop you lying to everyone by saying you are 100% correct.

You truly are a pathetic troll.

Here you are again, calling someone a liar or a pathetic troll, over a whimsical non consequential post. Why are you so petty and trivial?

Anybody reading that post would snigger that I'm just stating the obvious, and ofcourse I'm 100% correct. I don't need to be a mind reader to say those things - do I? You flunked out of stand up comedy school - get over it.

I'm trying move the needle on these flat earthers, so is data, so is kabool, so is every other globe earther here - but now you want to tell another little fib, another little porky pie, and say but not you? Truly astounding.

20

Flat Earth Debate / Re: They've lied to the world about the stars

« on: May 20, 2025, 06:56:30 PM »

 

You didn't read my post properly, did you? 

No, I'm 100% certain you are lying to yourself that you will ever move the needle with any flat earther, especially Turbo. Turbo's entrenchment in idiocy is cemented.

I did. Like so often, you are just making shit up.
What makes you 100% certain that I even think what you are suggesting I think?

You couldn't lie straight in bed. Now you lie about reading my last post properly. Anyone would think you're trying to imitate one of Turbo's 500 year dead astronomers!

Me making shit up? That's rich coming from the guy who calls anybody a liar who doesn't think exactly like he does! I do mean exactly, too, like a carbon copy. You seem to think everybody is a clone of you and get your knickers in a knot when you realise they are not.

I don't make anything up. You get extremely upset all the time when none of these flat earthers change a single thought or belief as a result of what you type. I'm 100% correct. You are trying to move the needle on their beliefs, and are holding out that one day you will succeed, so the last 20,000 posts you've made here, were not all in vain. You're fully committed.

Let me guess. You hold the world record for getting kicked out of stand-up-comedy school in the shortest time ever?

Your sense of humor like your lying is identical to any one of those dead astronomers- dead pan.

21

Flat Earth General / Re: Why don’t FE’rs get together to do this experiment to measure earth’s curvature?

« on: May 20, 2025, 04:17:42 PM »

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MortonsFork

Are you being paid for the job you claim you do?
1. If so, then you are the paid government shill that we knew you were.
2. If so, then you are a slave.

I don't need to feel "safe." Being "safe" under COVID was a lesson in oppression that I still have fear trauma from. In the pursuit of other people telling themselves they were making me "safe", I instead felt like I couldn't go to a store without worrying that at best they would institute some touchless payment that made my family unable to purchase anything (I don't own a smartphone, and neither does my dad), or worse that I'd be unable to go anywhere.
I need you to help me feel free. If you can't do that, you ought to quit that job of yours. Because I have no use for the state-run propaganda engine looking out for my safety.

You have fear trauma from the covid 19 pandemic? Wait. Let me guess. It's not fear trauma from catching covid19 unvaccinated and dying, is it? Your soft fear trauma is you might not have been allowed to go somewhere?

Fucking hell. The real pandemic of our times is how soft society has become.

So you say you dont need me to help you feel safe. You say you need me to help you feel free?

Are you saying you feel imprisoned? By society?

From what I read from you here, you live a life as free as a bird (excuse the pun). You get to be a man somedays and a woman other days, at your own leisure. You are so free, you are free to believe the world you live in, is fucking flat like a flapjack. Nobody is throwing you in a jail cell or mental ward for holding this belief, which is contrary to all the knowledge gathered about this world, are they? You are so free, you are rewriting the bible, and nobody is telling you you can't. You are also free to share whatever opinion you hold about anything, on the internet. You are free to accept or dismiss whatever you like, and you do, all the time.

How am I doing? Are you feeling free yet?

Try being a glass half-full type of person instead of half-empty, and you'll be much happier.

Flat Earth is an extreme extreme group. Ask yourself why you were attracted to such a group in the first place.

22

Flat Earth General / Re: Why don’t FE’rs get together to do this experiment to measure earth’s curvature?

« on: May 19, 2025, 06:23:44 PM »

The reason for so many map projections is due to the fact the earth is spherical.

No, it's because they are floundering to make their sphere Earth work.

If the earth was flat, there wouldn’t be a need for all the crazy map projections trying to correct one aspect while exaggerating other aspects.

That guy is literally on the floor struggling to make the globe work on a flat space.

It's my job to destroy that misplaced confidence of yours that there is no curvature you can measure.

Yes, I believe it is your job. Do you enjoy working for the government? The perks must be worth not being able to sleep at night as you think about how enslaved the population is.  And I suppose your gated community insulates you from the poverty and crime all around you. Meanwhile, my hope is that one day they'll pull you off of the FE disinformation track, and give you a job protecting something worthwhile. Those secrets don't cause anything but human suffering.  Things like weapons codes or hazardous chemicals benefit the public by being kept under wraps. Your job is useless and a waste of your energy and taxpayer money.

But my confidence is not misplaced. I can take a simple picture, like so...

And see how the horizon angles up to eye level. I took that while going on a real trip, just like I took this picture.

It is my job when I'm on here to try and bring the mental state of guys like you, to a place where you can live in a world where you feel safe again. Where you feel not every single authority on the planet past present and future is filling you with lies.

I do work for the government, that is correct. I hold a very worthwhile and satisfying job, actually. I help people all the time, even when I'm dragging them to hospital for mental health assessments against their will.

Your eyes are not that good to differentiate between your natural eyeline level and the sea horizon. Buy a theodolite, learn how it works, and use it to see and measure Earth curvature.

By the way, thanks for posting that video of a guy trying to make an accurate flat earth map from the globe. It's one of my favourite videos of all time! It shows why all map projections are inaccurate and only a 3d model of the earth is the best representation of our Earth.

23

Flat Earth Debate / Re: They've lied to the world about the stars

« on: May 19, 2025, 05:26:21 PM »

Most of the lying ofcourse, is committed by the one who calls himself Jack Black, and who thinks he can make Turbonium see reason. Lying to himself, that is,

Sure it isn't you and turbo?
Because here you are, lying yet again.

(I think we all know the answer  )

Yes. It's you.

You didn't read my post properly, did you? 

No, I'm 100% certain you are lying to yourself that you will ever move the needle with any flat earther, especially Turbo. Turbo's entrenchment in idiocy is cemented.

24

Flat Earth General / Re: Why don’t FE’rs get together to do this experiment to measure earth’s curvature?

« on: May 19, 2025, 01:04:20 PM »

Tell you what, I am confident enough in the Earth's lack of curvature that I will ask you to go and walk the Earth with a tape measure and level, you can spent the next three to ten years walking over a 3000 mile east to west area. Then when you're done with that, you can walk north to south. I hope you don't mind being homeless for prolonged periods. Meanwhile, I drove across the same amount twice, noticed no curve, and continue to be a Flat Earther.

Since you seem to think your time is more important than mine, that you expect me to do your work for you, if you want me to do these measurements, you could pay me. Alot. But I'd take your money, and rather than tell you what you want to hear, I know exactly what I'd discover. The "curvature" is just an illusion. What your eyes tell you with a still picture, and what traveling across miles of land tells you are different things.

You are calling them shills because they honestly performed an experiment and admitted they were wrong.

Did they perform an experiment? No, they performed an observation. An experiment involves samples, and a control. For example, actually measuring for curvature, you use a digger to create a sandbox. You mound dirt so that it has 8 inch drop at 1 mile, 32 inch drop at two miles, and 72 inch drop at three miles. And you look over a how this doesn't match the surrounding area, admit you're wrong, fill in the missing dirt, and move on with your life.

This "experiment" on the other hand offered no controls. Just a bunch of people who supposedly were a mix of flat and round Earthers (I suppose you think people constitutes a control here), who go to a place that is supposedly Antarctica (and not a tiny enclosed set), even though they kinda sorta is a treaty in place to protect the wildlife and historical sites, and just because scientists are assholes. Remember that guy who wanted to explore the Northwest Passage, and suddenly finds his crew missing? This is usually what happens to Flat Earthers who really try to visit Antarctica.
Yes, these people are shills.

Just as you would be a shill if you performed the experiment to dig in the above sandbox. What makes them shills is not that they "left".  It's that they agree to this "experiment" in the first place.


There is not a midnight sun, but Eric Dubay is willing to contradict himself here. You can see in these two videos that in one, the sun sets in the south, and in one, it doesn't. At 5:28 in the seasons video, he shows the sun in the south starting to set. At 4:15, we have the sun not setting.

Think about this: if a video maker can make the sun do two different things, then can we trust video representations of the sun at all? We cannot, so regardless of what I may or may not feel about TFE, nothing has been proven. Similarly, if we have Eric Dubay waffling and contradicting himself, we literally cannot claim anyone is not a potential shill.

This is a ball.

And notice how that in no way addresses the issue raised.

The issues raised are your issues. Might I recommend therapy for those persistent issues? Meanwhile, this is a ball. Distinct from a bowl.

More importantly you haven't even defined what you mean by that.

Figure it out.

"There must be something wrong! My circle is cutting downward! Oh no no, can it by that I have *ahem* accidentally proved the Earth is a sphere?"

No, it cannot. You might have proved the Earth is a bowl. Concave and convex are two different things.

It's my job to destroy that misplaced confidence of yours that there is no curvature you can measure.

Go down to the beach with your newly purchased theodolite, and measure the horizon dip, which is measuring Earth's curvature.

In the meantime, explain how if you travel South West long enough in a straight line, or South East long enough in a straight line, from your home state of Virginia in the USA, both directions will take you to Australia, if there is no curvature and Earth is not a globe.

25

Flat Earth Debate / Re: They've lied to the world about the stars

« on: May 19, 2025, 03:55:17 AM »

How could they ever have seen multiple distinct belts on Saturn and see their edges, and see a distinct fixed in position feature on an edge of a belt, through the very same atmosphere we see through today, but we’ve never even seen Saturn motionless at all to even try to see what they claimed to see all the time for years?

What a joke this is. We have clearly seen that Saturn does not have multiple distinct belts at all, pnly one blotchy area with edges that move around on Saturn which id in constant rapid rotation, which you say is from an effect of atmosphere, so they’d see the same thing we do, if they did see it.

Dont tell me this bs about seeing Saturn motionless because we never have seen it motionless, that’s just bs.

Their claims are obviously bs, proven to be complete bs, simple as that.

They did see all those things.

Those claims are not obviously bullshit. Your head is obviously full of bullshit - literally. If you tilt your head, does it dribble out of your ear?

Post up a photo of the telescope you use

26

Flat Earth Debate / Re: They've lied to the world about the stars

« on: May 19, 2025, 03:48:15 AM »

NASA isn’t a valid source for evidence, none of it can be confirmed as valid by others like us, bs supporting other bs, that’s all it is.

Their claims of seeing all this was from Earth, through a long ago scrapped for junk telescope, not with a supposed ‘space probe’, it’s a stupid comparison and cannot compare to how they would’ve seen Saturn on Earth.

We compare it to what we see from Earth, like they did, you moron

Lol! How do you KNOW?

Thanks for reminding everybody of your real issue. It has nothing to do with Saturn. You dont think anything from NASA is valid.

You think -     

27

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: The Misunderstanding

« on: May 18, 2025, 04:03:11 PM »

Lordy Lord.

I thought the flat earth threads on this website were the most insane imaginable. How wrong was I? This thread is fruitier than a fruitcake.

There are no winners in religious debates on the meaning of doctrine. The number of ways religious doctrine can be interpreted is literally infinite.

What one person says is understanding, another says is misunderstanding.

But here's food for thought. Didnt Jesus say, "My father and I are one"?

That can be interpreted a number ways, can't it?

28

Flat Earth Debate / Re: They've lied to the world about the stars

« on: May 18, 2025, 01:44:45 PM »

We’ve never seen Saturn once as they claimed to see all the time.

Their claims aren’t based on reality, they’re complete bs.

Show me Saturn as motionless, if you believe that bs is not made up bs

I’m going to derail a thread just like you.  But it’s not a word salad.  It’s a few facts.

The sun on a flat earth would have to change size through the day as it changes distance from the viewer.  Especially if you want to invoke vanishing point for sunset where the sun would have to visibly shrink in apparent size all afternoon.

This is a time lapse video of the sun using the correct solar filter for a 80mm telescope.  The time lapse was done in three second intervals from about 9:30 am to 10:30 am.

Anyway, no evidence the visible sun changes dimensions to invoke vanishing point in the context of the sun.

4-24-25 sun time lapse 9:30 am to about 10:30 am

  The is a gif of the first few seconds of the video. 




Gif of the last few seconds of the video.



The sun started to drift out of frame from misalignment and / or motors not keeping up with the weight of the camera body.

I guess cheap tripod vs a 2,000 dollar tripod….


This proves the heliocentric model and shows FE fails to accurately predict the movement of the sun.

Hey, buddy. I think it's time you got your eyes checked. You posted this post into the wrong thread. It is impossible to derail this thread, if you've been using your eyes and reading.

This thread is all about Saturn, 500 year dead astronomers, the shittest Saturn videos on YouTube from cell phones, and lying.

Most of the lying ofcourse, is committed by the one who calls himself Jack Black, and who thinks he can make Turbonium see reason. Lying to himself, that is,

We see right through you, Jack Black!!

The big question this thread asks, is if a mentally handicapped person, has the capability to lie if that person is honestly retarded.

Were those astronomers retarded, is Turbonium retarded, or is the true retard, Jack Black?

(I think we all know the answer  )

29

Technology, Science & Alt Science / Re: Is FE science, or is it just a club?

« on: May 16, 2025, 04:39:18 PM »

Round Earthers thinking they have science on their side.

Offhand, buoyancy existed long before Newton "solved" the problem of why things fall.

Buoyancy  is why things float.  Gravity is why things sink.

Meanwhile, the distance from the sun is based on an infinite wave concept that requires energy on a fundamental level to defy the second law of thermodynamics.

I'm afraid to ask, but what wave concept defies the second law of thermodynamics?

Oh sure, we can see light forever (ignoring first the limits of perspective), we can see things billions of miles away because we're just that awesome.

Or, some things are just that big and bright.

Never mind that in order for this to be so, the source of light would have to be perpetual to continue supplying light at motion. 

Huh?!

A typical flashlight from the 1980s begins to dim over a matter of yards not miles.

Are you seriously comparing a star to a flashlight?

This is before even talking about how artists and everyone involved in construction knows things have to be level to work.

Does anyone have any idea of what Bulma is babbling about?

He's babbling about the fact, construction workers (except when constructing long tunnels that meet underground or very long bridges that meet in the middle) and artists, don't worry about earth curvature.

30

Flat Earth General / Re: Dubay offers bounty on RE

« on: May 12, 2025, 04:59:16 PM »

I don't share Dubay's commitment to veganism (the Zizians, and Hitler himself were at least vegetarian, and veganism means animals get put down since farms raise animals as part of their business). Nor do I agree with his stance on Judaism. He should stick to flat Earth, and not push Nazism.

Eric Dubay's veganism has ravaged his body, and done nothing to improve his mind. God knows, it certainly hasn't improved his speech impediment.

But, like Goebels in Nazi Germany, he speaks well, and is a good salesman for flat earth. He has his ardent followers who think he's the next messiah.

What makes you think he appeals to NAZI ideology, bulma? I mean, he looks more like he's been starving in a concentration camp, than a NAZI foot soldier.