Immigration/Border Policies (Arizona Bill)

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theonlydann

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Re: Arizona's bill on immigration.
« Reply #240 on: May 26, 2010, 09:16:12 AM »
Awesome.  So if I accuse Barrack Obama of stealing my money, we can just have him arrested and thrown in jail right?
Naw. Because their is no obvious motive for that one... nor is it likely such a  cut and dry occurrence would happen.

NOW... if you reported your wallie missing, and it turned up in Obammers front pocket, and it had your ID in and such in it... then yes.


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Saddam Hussein

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Re: Arizona's bill on immigration.
« Reply #241 on: May 26, 2010, 09:40:44 AM »
Thats what i'm saying!

You catch a mofo in a car that ain't his, and the owner says it was stolen, THROW THE ASS IN PRISON!


Forget a trial.

So if I lend you my car, and then I report it to the police as stolen, we should just throw your ass in prison?

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Marcus Aurelius

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Re: Arizona's bill on immigration.
« Reply #242 on: May 26, 2010, 09:43:23 AM »
Thats what i'm saying!

You catch a mofo in a car that ain't his, and the owner says it was stolen, THROW THE ASS IN PRISON!


Forget a trial.

So if I lend you my car, and then I report it to the police as stolen, we should just throw your ass in prison?

Only if he's black, I suppose.

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theonlydann

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Re: Arizona's bill on immigration.
« Reply #243 on: May 26, 2010, 09:58:03 AM »
Thats what i'm saying!

You catch a mofo in a car that ain't his, and the owner says it was stolen, THROW THE ASS IN PRISON!


Forget a trial.

So if I lend you my car, and then I report it to the police as stolen, we should just throw your ass in prison?
If i were dumb enough to borrow your ve3hicle without written permission as proof? Yes.
Thats what i'm saying!

You catch a mofo in a car that ain't his, and the owner says it was stolen, THROW THE ASS IN PRISON!


Forget a trial.

So if I lend you my car, and then I report it to the police as stolen, we should just throw your ass in prison?

Only if he's black, I suppose.
Racist.

Brown and yellow commit crimes also.

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Saddam Hussein

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Re: Arizona's bill on immigration.
« Reply #244 on: May 26, 2010, 12:10:17 PM »
I'm getting the feeling that you're trolling here, Dann.  Do we really have to have a discussion on the importance of having a fair criminal justice system?

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Mykael

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Re: Arizona's bill on immigration.
« Reply #245 on: May 26, 2010, 12:15:13 PM »
Why do you hate Due Process of Law, Dann?

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theonlydann

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Re: Arizona's bill on immigration.
« Reply #246 on: May 26, 2010, 12:21:05 PM »
I'm getting the feeling that you're trolling here, Dann.  Do we really have to have a discussion on the importance of having a fair criminal justice system?
What's unfair about sending criminals to jail?

Why do you hate Due Process of Law, Dann?
ABUSE of due process. I mean... 15 people see a mofo shoot a man. The police catch him with the murder weapon and a gun. SEND HIM TO PRISON. Fuck a trial yo.

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Sean

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Re: Arizona's bill on immigration.
« Reply #247 on: May 26, 2010, 12:33:49 PM »
He would be convicted if they connected him to the murder weapon and there were witnesses.
Quote from: sokarul
Better bring a better augment, something not so stupid.

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theonlydann

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Re: Arizona's bill on immigration.
« Reply #248 on: May 26, 2010, 12:35:03 PM »
He would be convicted if they connected him to the murder weapon and there were witnesses.
Why waste time on the trial?

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Sean

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Re: Arizona's bill on immigration.
« Reply #249 on: May 26, 2010, 12:41:57 PM »
What if the defense proves that he had been framed?
Quote from: sokarul
Better bring a better augment, something not so stupid.

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theonlydann

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Re: Arizona's bill on immigration.
« Reply #250 on: May 26, 2010, 12:44:13 PM »
If 15 people and the police hate him enough to bear false witness and allow another person to die, then he must be an asshole. Let him go to prison. It's not like he's getting executed.

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Marcus Aurelius

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Re: Arizona's bill on immigration.
« Reply #251 on: May 26, 2010, 01:05:47 PM »
I'm getting the feeling that you're trolling here, Dann.  Do we really have to have a discussion on the importance of having a fair criminal justice system?
What's unfair about sending criminals to jail?

Why do you hate Due Process of Law, Dann?
ABUSE of due process. I mean... 15 people see a mofo shoot a man. The police catch him with the murder weapon and a gun. SEND HIM TO PRISON. Fuck a trial yo.

Because of the way this has been abused in the past and present.  The fact that police have been known to plant evidence, and beat confessions out of people.

What you are saying in your above example is actually "If the police claim this person committed a crime and claim that 15 people identified that person, (and they are not white) then that is evidence enough that this person did in fact commit the crime".  There is no need for the government to actually prove that their claims are correct, nor to give the accused the opportunity to defend him/herself against such claims, because the government is omnipotent, right?

If you go that route we might as well return to the days of the Salem witch trials.

Angy Protestant Villager:  "Burn her, she is a witch!"
Crazy Left Wing Civil Liberties Extremist: "But how do you know she is a witch?"
Angry Protestant Villager:  "Didn't you just hear the Magistrate?  He told us that she is a witch!  BURN HER!"
CLWCLE:  "Did the Magistrate provide any evidence that she is a witch?  How do we know that the claims made are accurate?"
APV:  "Off with you now!  We had a trial, the witnesses said that they heard from this other person who heard from somebody else that she casted spell on the village and summoned the devil!  Then she started making the girls scream in pain right there in the court room with her black magic! that was proof enough for the Magistrate that she is a witch!"

Do you believe in witches Dann?

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theonlydann

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Re: Arizona's bill on immigration.
« Reply #252 on: May 26, 2010, 01:11:57 PM »
No, but i believe in Bitches. Stop being one.

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Marcus Aurelius

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Re: Arizona's bill on immigration.
« Reply #253 on: May 26, 2010, 01:17:34 PM »
No, but i believe in Bitches. Stop being one.

Do you believe that a government's claim of somebody's guilt is evidence enough that they are in fact guilty?

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theonlydann

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Re: Arizona's bill on immigration.
« Reply #254 on: May 26, 2010, 01:19:14 PM »
No, but i believe in Bitches. Stop being one.

Do you believe that a government's claim of somebody's guilt is evidence enough that they are in fact guilty?
No way. The government is corrupt! That's why i don't think they should be in charge of laws.

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Marcus Aurelius

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Re: Arizona's bill on immigration.
« Reply #255 on: May 26, 2010, 01:22:18 PM »
ABUSE of due process. I mean... 15 people see a mofo shoot a man. The police catch him with the murder weapon and a gun. SEND HIM TO PRISON. Fuck a trial yo.

Then what forum should be used to put forth the above evidence, without a trial?

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theonlydann

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Re: Arizona's bill on immigration.
« Reply #256 on: May 26, 2010, 01:25:07 PM »
ABUSE of due process. I mean... 15 people see a mofo shoot a man. The police catch him with the murder weapon and a gun. SEND HIM TO PRISON. Fuck a trial yo.

Then what forum should be used to put forth the above evidence, without a trial?
Street justice, lynch mobs, vigilantes (the good kind, like batman or V.) and police that are hired, and not elected. Maybe a few respected local leaders... but only a few and only local ones.

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Marcus Aurelius

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Re: Arizona's bill on immigration.
« Reply #257 on: May 26, 2010, 01:28:22 PM »
ABUSE of due process. I mean... 15 people see a mofo shoot a man. The police catch him with the murder weapon and a gun. SEND HIM TO PRISON. Fuck a trial yo.

Then what forum should be used to put forth the above evidence, without a trial?
Street justice, lynch mobs, vigilantes (the good kind, like batman or V.) and police that are hired, and not elected. Maybe a few respected local leaders... but only a few and only local ones.

So in other words, Mob rule.  Similar to the Salem witch trials.

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theonlydann

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Re: Arizona's bill on immigration.
« Reply #258 on: May 26, 2010, 01:33:46 PM »
ABUSE of due process. I mean... 15 people see a mofo shoot a man. The police catch him with the murder weapon and a gun. SEND HIM TO PRISON. Fuck a trial yo.

Then what forum should be used to put forth the above evidence, without a trial?
Street justice, lynch mobs, vigilantes (the good kind, like batman or V.) and police that are hired, and not elected. Maybe a few respected local leaders... but only a few and only local ones.

So in other words, Mob rule.  Similar to the Salem witch trials.
Similar. But no killing. Unless they were a jerk when getting sentenced. I HATE PEOPLE HWO DONT ACCEPT THEIR FATE!

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Mykael

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Re: Arizona's bill on immigration.
« Reply #259 on: May 26, 2010, 01:56:44 PM »
I'm getting the feeling that you're trolling here, Dann.  Do we really have to have a discussion on the importance of having a fair criminal justice system?
What's unfair about sending criminals to jail?

Why do you hate Due Process of Law, Dann?
ABUSE of due process. I mean... 15 people see a mofo shoot a man. The police catch him with the murder weapon and a gun. SEND HIM TO PRISON. Fuck a trial yo.
Trial = Due Process

You be trollin, boy/.

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Christianrocker90

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Re: Arizona's bill on immigration.
« Reply #260 on: May 26, 2010, 03:09:03 PM »
Meh. I see no problem with holding a car thief a few more days.



Right, because the fact that he was arrested and charged for it, also means he is guilty.

True.  Also, even if he is guilty, that doesn't justify the police denying him his constitutional right of bail.

Wat

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Sean

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Re: Arizona's bill on immigration.
« Reply #261 on: May 26, 2010, 03:15:17 PM »
Meh. I see no problem with holding a car thief a few more days.



Right, because the fact that he was arrested and charged for it, also means he is guilty.

True.  Also, even if he is guilty, that doesn't justify the police denying him his constitutional right of bail.

Wat

I'm guessing you disagree..? Go on.
Quote from: sokarul
Better bring a better augment, something not so stupid.

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Saddam Hussein

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Re: Arizona's bill on immigration.
« Reply #262 on: May 26, 2010, 03:21:00 PM »
Meh. I see no problem with holding a car thief a few more days.



Right, because the fact that he was arrested and charged for it, also means he is guilty.

True.  Also, even if he is guilty, that doesn't justify the police denying him his constitutional right of bail.

Wat

The way bail works is that you pay a certain amount of money to the court, which will be held as collateral to ensure your return.  Bail can be denied by the judge sometimes, but it wasn't in this case.  The man's bail was set.  He paid it, and should have been free to leave.  But then the police refused to let him go.

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Christianrocker90

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Re: Arizona's bill on immigration.
« Reply #263 on: May 26, 2010, 03:52:47 PM »
Meh. I see no problem with holding a car thief a few more days.



Right, because the fact that he was arrested and charged for it, also means he is guilty.

True.  Also, even if he is guilty, that doesn't justify the police denying him his constitutional right of bail.

Wat

The way bail works is that you pay a certain amount of money to the court, which will be held as collateral to ensure your return.  Bail can be denied by the judge sometimes, but it wasn't in this case.  The man's bail was set.  He paid it, and should have been free to leave.  But then the police refused to let him go.

I get that they were wrong to not release him, but i fail to she the constitutional violation. At wrose they violated protocal and can be punished for it, but I don't see any constitutional problem.

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theonlydann

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Re: Arizona's bill on immigration.
« Reply #264 on: May 26, 2010, 03:57:56 PM »
I'm getting the feeling that you're trolling here, Dann.  Do we really have to have a discussion on the importance of having a fair criminal justice system?
What's unfair about sending criminals to jail?

Why do you hate Due Process of Law, Dann?
ABUSE of due process. I mean... 15 people see a mofo shoot a man. The police catch him with the murder weapon and a gun. SEND HIM TO PRISON. Fuck a trial yo.
Trial = Due Process

You be trollin, boy/.
YEA? Wanna make something of it?

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Space Cowgirl

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Re: Arizona's bill on immigration.
« Reply #265 on: May 26, 2010, 04:44:20 PM »
Meh. I see no problem with holding a car thief a few more days.



Right, because the fact that he was arrested and charged for it, also means he is guilty.

True.  Also, even if he is guilty, that doesn't justify the police denying him his constitutional right of bail.

Wat

The way bail works is that you pay a certain amount of money to the court, which will be held as collateral to ensure your return.  Bail can be denied by the judge sometimes, but it wasn't in this case.  The man's bail was set.  He paid it, and should have been free to leave.  But then the police refused to let him go.

I get that they were wrong to not release him, but i fail to she the constitutional violation. At wrose they violated protocal and can be punished for it, but I don't see any constitutional problem.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eighth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

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Christianrocker90

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Re: Arizona's bill on immigration.
« Reply #266 on: May 26, 2010, 05:08:30 PM »
Meh. I see no problem with holding a car thief a few more days.



Right, because the fact that he was arrested and charged for it, also means he is guilty.

True.  Also, even if he is guilty, that doesn't justify the police denying him his constitutional right of bail.

Wat

The way bail works is that you pay a certain amount of money to the court, which will be held as collateral to ensure your return.  Bail can be denied by the judge sometimes, but it wasn't in this case.  The man's bail was set.  He paid it, and should have been free to leave.  But then the police refused to let him go.

I get that they were wrong to not release him, but i fail to she the constitutional violation. At worse they violated protocol and can be punished for it, but I don't see any constitutional problem.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eighth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

Ok, I guess that can be considered "cruel and unusual punishments". Point taken, and mine is conceded.

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WardoggKC130FE

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Re: Arizona's bill on immigration.
« Reply #267 on: May 27, 2010, 03:52:29 AM »
Meh. I see no problem with holding a car thief a few more days.



Right, because the fact that he was arrested and charged for it, also means he is guilty.

True.  Also, even if he is guilty, that doesn't justify the police denying him his constitutional right of bail.

Wat

The way bail works is that you pay a certain amount of money to the court, which will be held as collateral to ensure your return.  Bail can be denied by the judge sometimes, but it wasn't in this case.  The man's bail was set.  He paid it, and should have been free to leave.  But then the police refused to let him go.

I get that they were wrong to not release him, but i fail to she the constitutional violation. At wrose they violated protocal and can be punished for it, but I don't see any constitutional problem.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eighth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

No where in the constitution does it say they have to release him if he posts bail.

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Marcus Aurelius

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Re: Arizona's bill on immigration.
« Reply #268 on: May 27, 2010, 04:22:23 AM »
No where in the constitution does it say they have to release him if he posts bail.

Perhaps because the realease associated with bail is in the legal definition:

noun:
Security, such as cash, a bond, or property, pledged or given to a court by or on behalf of one accused of committing a crime, to obtain release from incarceration and to ensure the person?s future appearance in court when required during the criminal proceeding. See also preventive detention and recognizance.

verb:
To obtain for oneself or another the release from incarceration by providing security to ensure the person?s future appearance at every stage in a criminal proceeding.

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WardoggKC130FE

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Re: Arizona's bill on immigration.
« Reply #269 on: May 27, 2010, 04:38:04 AM »
No where in the constitution does it say they have to release him if he posts bail.

Perhaps because the realease associated with bail is in the legal definition:

noun:
Security, such as cash, a bond, or property, pledged or given to a court by or on behalf of one accused of committing a crime, to obtain release from incarceration and to ensure the person?s future appearance in court when required during the criminal proceeding. See also preventive detention and recognizance.

verb:
To obtain for oneself or another the release from incarceration by providing security to ensure the person?s future appearance at every stage in a criminal proceeding.



Its a stretch....its almost the which came first argument though.