DOMA Unconstitutional

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Marcus Aurelius

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DOMA Unconstitutional
« on: February 23, 2011, 11:06:05 AM »
Wow.  Just wow, I think this is the first time I may actually be impressed with something the president is doing.  Better late than never, I'd still like to see him follow through with it.  This is still technically the law of the land, so it will still have to be enforced, but it appears the Justice Department will no longer be defending challenges to DOMA in court.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/02/23/obama-doma-unconstitutional_n_827134.html


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Lord Wilmore

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Re: DOMA Unconstitutional
« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2011, 11:45:30 AM »
You know, Obama is an unbelievably canny politician. This whole 'my position is constantly evolving/I am wrestling with this issue' is pretty much genius. Honestly, this guy wins at rhetoric.
"I want truth for truth's sake, not for the applaud or approval of men. I would not reject truth because it is unpopular, nor accept error because it is popular. I should rather be right and stand alone than run with the multitude and be wrong." - C.S. DeFord

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EnglshGentleman

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Re: DOMA Unconstitutional
« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2011, 12:02:50 PM »
I do what I want!

I HAVE NO PARTY TIES!

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Marcus Aurelius

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Re: DOMA Unconstitutional
« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2011, 12:28:57 PM »
You know, Obama is an unbelievably canny politician. This whole 'my position is constantly evolving/I am wrestling with this issue' is pretty much genius. Honestly, this guy wins at rhetoric.

I've always kind of called bullshit on that, because even though it may be his position, since the beginning of his presidency the official position has always been  in support of DOMA, as evidence for the Justice Departments continued defense of it in court.  Until the official position has changed, I don't put much weight on his rhetoric.

Now finally, the administration has reversed their official position on DOMA.

Re: DOMA Unconstitutional
« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2011, 03:45:16 PM »
You know, Obama is an unbelievably canny politician. This whole 'my position is constantly evolving/I am wrestling with this issue' is pretty much genius. Honestly, this guy wins at rhetoric.
this is nothing new among politicians, dems or repubs.  it is very hard to get a straight answer out of them because they dont want to tie themselve to one side of an issue.  there are very few politicians that dont play this game.  if you say he is a genius then that means Washington DC is crawling with geniuses, and i think we'd all agree thats not even close to being true.

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EnglshGentleman

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Re: DOMA Unconstitutional
« Reply #5 on: February 23, 2011, 04:04:55 PM »
You know, Obama is an unbelievably canny politician. This whole 'my position is constantly evolving/I am wrestling with this issue' is pretty much genius. Honestly, this guy wins at rhetoric.
this is nothing new among politicians, dems or repubs.  it is very hard to get a straight answer out of them because they dont want to tie themselve to one side of an issue.  there are very few politicians that dont play this game.  if you say he is a genius then that means Washington DC is crawling with geniuses, and i think we'd all agree thats not even close to being true.

Really? Our last President was perfectly fine with tying himself to one side.

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Saddam Hussein

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Re: DOMA Unconstitutional
« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2011, 04:10:08 PM »
You know, Obama is an unbelievably canny politician. This whole 'my position is constantly evolving/I am wrestling with this issue' is pretty much genius. Honestly, this guy wins at rhetoric.
this is nothing new among politicians, dems or repubs.  it is very hard to get a straight answer out of them because they dont want to tie themselve to one side of an issue.  there are very few politicians that dont play this game.  if you say he is a genius then that means Washington DC is crawling with geniuses, and i think we'd all agree thats not even close to being true.

You're right that many politicians do change their views a lot, but they usually try to spin the record to look like their current position was the one that they always held.  (Classic example: Bush and his reasons for invading Iraq.)  To be fair, it's hard to really blame them, considering the fact that any change of opinion will be interpreted as "flip-flopping" by pundits and rival politicians, subjecting them to further blasting.  A politician actually admitting that he now has a different opinion isn't all that common.

Re: DOMA Unconstitutional
« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2011, 09:29:44 AM »
You know, Obama is an unbelievably canny politician. This whole 'my position is constantly evolving/I am wrestling with this issue' is pretty much genius. Honestly, this guy wins at rhetoric.
this is nothing new among politicians, dems or repubs.  it is very hard to get a straight answer out of them because they dont want to tie themselve to one side of an issue.  there are very few politicians that dont play this game.  if you say he is a genius then that means Washington DC is crawling with geniuses, and i think we'd all agree thats not even close to being true.

Really? Our last President was perfectly fine with tying himself to one side.
true, and it was nice because at least you knew where he stood, my point is that its very rare that politicians do that. 
You know, Obama is an unbelievably canny politician. This whole 'my position is constantly evolving/I am wrestling with this issue' is pretty much genius. Honestly, this guy wins at rhetoric.
this is nothing new among politicians, dems or repubs.  it is very hard to get a straight answer out of them because they dont want to tie themselve to one side of an issue.  there are very few politicians that dont play this game.  if you say he is a genius then that means Washington DC is crawling with geniuses, and i think we'd all agree thats not even close to being true.

You're right that many politicians do change their views a lot, but they usually try to spin the record to look like their current position was the one that they always held.  (Classic example: Bush and his reasons for invading Iraq.)  To be fair, it's hard to really blame them, considering the fact that any change of opinion will be interpreted as "flip-flopping" by pundits and rival politicians, subjecting them to further blasting.  A politician actually admitting that he now has a different opinion isn't all that common.
Bush invaded because we thought they had WMDs, i dont think he's ever backed away from that, even after we didnt find them.  but using the Iraq war and Obama voting to approve it when he was a Senator and then campaigning that he was against it from the start is a perfect example of what you said.  are you saying that politicians who flip flop shouldnt be called out?  i understand sometimes people do have an honest change of heart on certain issues, but the majority of the time its about trying to make themselves look better for election purposes.

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Marcus Aurelius

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Re: DOMA Unconstitutional
« Reply #8 on: February 24, 2011, 11:17:47 AM »
Obama was not a U.S. Senator in 2003 when the authorization to use military force in Iraq was approved by Congress.

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Space Cowgirl

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Re: DOMA Unconstitutional
« Reply #9 on: February 24, 2011, 01:52:51 PM »
Slate has a pretty good article explaining all this http://www.slate.com/id/2286200

Bob Barr is the real flip flopper on this issue  :P http://www.bobbarr.org/default.asp?pt=newsdescr&RI=1134
« Last Edit: February 24, 2011, 02:04:06 PM by Space Cowgirl »
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

Re: DOMA Unconstitutional
« Reply #10 on: February 24, 2011, 05:59:48 PM »
Obama was not a U.S. Senator in 2003 when the authorization to use military force in Iraq was approved by Congress.
dang it, i was confusing hillary with obama.