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Solar Size

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TheEngineer

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Re: Solar Size
« Reply #30 on: March 06, 2008, 03:07:42 PM »
Our argument did not.
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sokarul

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Re: Solar Size
« Reply #31 on: March 06, 2008, 03:17:43 PM »
Quote from: TheEngineer on March 06, 2008, 03:07:42 PM
Our argument did not.
You first quoted me talking about optics.
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TheEngineer

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Re: Solar Size
« Reply #32 on: March 06, 2008, 04:02:06 PM »
Quote from: TheEngineer on March 05, 2008, 06:39:42 PM
Quote from: sokarul on March 04, 2008, 12:21:50 PM
And for the most part the atmosphere is consistent.     
Since when?
Where did you say something about optics in that quote?
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sokarul

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Re: Solar Size
« Reply #33 on: March 06, 2008, 09:11:31 PM »
Quote from: sokarul on March 05, 2008, 12:29:42 AM
Quote from: Tom Bishop on March 04, 2008, 10:04:52 PM
Quote
And for the most part the atmosphere is consistent.  The fe sun should get smaller but it never does.

No it's not. There is more atmosphere in the way the farther the sun recedes from the observer.therefore there is a greater area for the sun's light to shine upon as the sun moves away.

You don't understand optics. 
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Quote from: Shifter on July 05, 2020, 09:53:30 AM
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TheEngineer

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Re: Solar Size
« Reply #34 on: March 06, 2008, 09:15:29 PM »
So, where is the part that I quoted you saying anything about optics?
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Trekky0623

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Re: Solar Size
« Reply #35 on: March 06, 2008, 09:27:53 PM »
Engy, when Sokarul say "for the most part", he's pointing out the fact that in 150km of altitude, the density changes from 0.001 g/cm3 to 0.000000000001 g/cm3, a change of 0.000999999999.  That's "for the most part" pretty constant.
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sokarul

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Re: Solar Size
« Reply #36 on: March 06, 2008, 09:48:32 PM »
Quote from: TheEngineer on March 06, 2008, 09:15:29 PM
So, where is the part that I quoted you saying anything about optics?
I was clearly talking about optics.  It's not my fault you can't comprehend.   
« Last Edit: March 06, 2008, 09:50:29 PM by sokarul »
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Quote from: Shifter on July 05, 2020, 09:53:30 AM
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TheEngineer

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Re: Solar Size
« Reply #37 on: March 07, 2008, 12:20:56 AM »
Quote from: Trekky0623 on March 06, 2008, 09:27:53 PM
Engy, when Sokarul say "for the most part", he's pointing out the fact that in 150km of altitude, the density changes from 0.001 g/cm3 to 0.000000000001 g/cm3, a change of 0.000999999999.  That's "for the most part" pretty constant.
So, 1,000 is, for the most part, 1,000,000,000,000?  Where did you go to school?
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Trekky0623

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Re: Solar Size
« Reply #38 on: March 07, 2008, 04:52:13 AM »
Quote from: TheEngineer on March 07, 2008, 12:20:56 AM
Quote from: Trekky0623 on March 06, 2008, 09:27:53 PM
Engy, when Sokarul say "for the most part", he's pointing out the fact that in 150km of altitude, the density changes from 0.001 g/cm3 to 0.000000000001 g/cm3, a change of 0.000999999999.  That's "for the most part" pretty constant.
So, 1,000 is, for the most part, 1,000,000,000,000?  Where did you go to school?

How big is 0.000999999999 grams?
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TheEngineer

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Re: Solar Size
« Reply #39 on: March 07, 2008, 09:37:57 AM »
About 999,999,990 times larger than 0.000000000001.  So to you and sokarul, being almost a billion times off is in the ballpark?
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fshy94

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Re: Solar Size
« Reply #40 on: March 07, 2008, 09:48:50 AM »
In the field of optics, however, engy, its negligible when you're attempting to tell about the angular change. Poor word choice, but meh, I can see what he meant. Basically, no matter the density of the atmosphere, its negligible when compared to the kind of refraction Tom was talking about, which pretty much requires water, not air. The IOR of air is 1.0003. The IOR of vaccuum is 1. I would have said the IOR was mostly constant, not the density. Just cede the point soka, that you picked the wrong word, and can we get back on topic?
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TheEngineer

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Re: Solar Size
« Reply #41 on: March 07, 2008, 10:00:28 AM »
Nine orders of magnitude - "mostly consistent."   Wow.
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Dead Kangaroo

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Re: Solar Size
« Reply #42 on: March 07, 2008, 10:06:28 AM »
Quote from: TheEngineer on March 07, 2008, 10:00:28 AM
Nine orders of magnitude - "mostly consistent."   Wow.
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sokarul

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Re: Solar Size
« Reply #43 on: March 07, 2008, 03:38:31 PM »
Quote from: TheEngineer on March 07, 2008, 10:00:28 AM
Nine orders of magnitude - "mostly consistent."   Wow.
If you have a problem with what I siad, consult physics 101. 
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Quote from: Shifter on July 05, 2020, 09:53:30 AM
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TheEngineer

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Re: Solar Size
« Reply #44 on: March 07, 2008, 05:19:50 PM »
Quote from: sokarul on March 07, 2008, 03:38:31 PM
If you have a problem with what I siad, consult physics 101. 
I'm pretty sure that in Physics 101, an answer that is off by nine orders of magnitude is not considered correct.  Perhaps you should consult 4th grade math.
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sokarul

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Re: Solar Size
« Reply #45 on: March 08, 2008, 03:15:58 PM »
Quote from: TheEngineer on March 07, 2008, 05:19:50 PM
Quote from: sokarul on March 07, 2008, 03:38:31 PM
If you have a problem with what I siad, consult physics 101. 
I'm pretty sure that in Physics 101, an answer that is off by nine orders of magnitude is not considered correct.  Perhaps you should consult 4th grade math.
Its still a change of less than .001 g/cm^3. 
« Last Edit: March 08, 2008, 03:18:03 PM by sokarul »
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Quote from: Shifter on July 05, 2020, 09:53:30 AM
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TheEngineer

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Re: Solar Size
« Reply #46 on: March 08, 2008, 03:54:28 PM »
It's a change of nine orders of magnitude.  I would love you to show me one of you Physics 101 exams where the professor marked an answer as correct when it was off by nine orders of magnitude.
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Raist

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Re: Solar Size
« Reply #47 on: March 08, 2008, 04:06:15 PM »
Ahhh pointless debate. It makes me horny.
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sokarul

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Re: Solar Size
« Reply #48 on: March 08, 2008, 04:28:23 PM »
Quote from: TheEngineer on March 08, 2008, 03:54:28 PM
It's a change of nine orders of magnitude.  I would love you to show me one of you Physics 101 exams where the professor marked an answer as correct when it was off by nine orders of magnitude.
I didn't keep any papers from elementary school.

Also why do you ignore the gradient part?  Its a change of less than .001g/cm^3 over a distance of 150 km.   
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Quote from: Shifter on July 05, 2020, 09:53:30 AM
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TheEngineer

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Re: Solar Size
« Reply #49 on: March 11, 2008, 05:38:45 PM »
Quote from: sokarul on March 08, 2008, 04:28:23 PM
Also why do you ignore the gradient part? Its a change of less than .001g/cm^3 over a distance of 150 km.   
You are the one ignoring the gradient part.  It's a change of nine orders of magnitude over 150 km.  That's one hell of a gradient.
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fshy94

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Re: Solar Size
« Reply #50 on: March 11, 2008, 05:41:08 PM »
Look guys, thats enough of this nonsense. What really matters to what we were originally talking about(bending of light) is the IOR variance, which varies about .0003 across the entirety of the atmosphere. The density didn't matter there.
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TheEngineer

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Re: Solar Size
« Reply #51 on: March 11, 2008, 05:41:58 PM »
Quote from: fshy94 on March 11, 2008, 05:41:08 PM
Look guys, thats enough of this nonsense. What really matters to what we were originally talking about(bending of light) is the IOR variance, which varies about nine orders of magnitude across the entirety of the atmosphere. The density didn't matter there.
Fixed.
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trig

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Re: Solar Size
« Reply #52 on: March 11, 2008, 06:10:58 PM »
Glad to see some things never change: TheEngineer will not make even a half baked mathematical argument, not even to save his life.

In this case, the endless discussion about the philosophical difference between  .001g/cm^3 and 0.000000000001g/cm^3 never came to the the use of Snell's law, where you can actually use those numbers for something other than cheap rhetoric.

If you had used Snell's law you would have seen that, big or small, the effect of refraction moves the apparent position of celestial objects in the opposite direction from what FE'rs require: FE'rs need some strange illusion by which the sun appears to touch the horizon even though it is still above the horizon. The refraction of the Sun's light through an atmosphere that is gradually less dense with increasing altitude gets the opposite illusion.

TheEngineer's argument is similar to this one: An elephant has more of a chance to topple the Empire State Building than an ant because the force the elephant can make is a million times stronger.
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fshy94

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Re: Solar Size
« Reply #53 on: March 11, 2008, 06:51:30 PM »
Quote from: TheEngineer on March 11, 2008, 05:41:58 PM
Quote from: fshy94 on March 11, 2008, 05:41:08 PM
Look guys, thats enough of this nonsense. What really matters to what we were originally talking about(bending of light) is the IOR variance, which varies about nine orders of magnitude across the entirety of the atmosphere. The density didn't matter there.
Fixed.

Oh, OK, so the IOR varying from 1 to 1.0002 is nine orders of magnitude? That's good to know. Read next time, before you post.
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Logic hopeful

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Re: Solar Size
« Reply #54 on: March 11, 2008, 07:37:33 PM »
I noticed that also and was about to post, thanks for pointing it out.
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TheEngineer

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Re: Solar Size
« Reply #55 on: March 11, 2008, 08:17:54 PM »
Quote from: fshy94 on March 11, 2008, 06:51:30 PM
Oh, OK, so the IOR varying from 1 to 1.0002 is nine orders of magnitude?
Obviously, duh.
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fshy94

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Re: Solar Size
« Reply #56 on: March 11, 2008, 08:20:01 PM »
Oh, I like engy math.
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The conspiracy has made it impossible to adequately explain FE theory in English.
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TheEngineer

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Re: Solar Size
« Reply #57 on: March 11, 2008, 08:30:15 PM »
Yep, that's what you get when you don't read the post for content.
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Logic hopeful

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Re: Solar Size
« Reply #58 on: March 11, 2008, 09:13:50 PM »
I guess you'll need to change that signature of yours now, huh Engy?
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fshy94

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Re: Solar Size
« Reply #59 on: March 11, 2008, 09:19:20 PM »
Yep. That sig needs updating...

No matter, sokarul still needs to concede the point there honorably.

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