Balloons

And I, am going to work, in an hour or so, and thus can't go to bed.

Quote from: Agent Z on November 12, 2007, 07:55:48 AM

Wait, why would it appear to be round if it is flat?

Why does Criss Angel look like he can levitate? Ad nauseam.

Short answer: unknown. But you're welcome to speculate. I, on the other hand, am going to bed.

Which is why it is an answered question/flaw in FET.

It's not a flaw. It just goes beyond our understanding.

We see the Earth is round. Yet people believe the Earth is Flat. Their theory is flawed. Laws of physics don't make exceptions just to trick our senses.

I can't see the Earth is round. Except in photographs. Why should I only trust photographs?

I can't see the Earth is round. Except in photographs. Why should I only trust photographs?

...I thought you were an RE'er.
In any case, anyone can send these balloons up. If you think these independent students are part of the conspiracy do it yourself. Besides you're not being asked to trust only in photographs. You're being asked to trust in all of your own experiences and observation and senses.

Who said I'm not an RE'er?

I can prove the Earth is round, but I can't see it with my senses.

Quote from: divito the fascist on November 12, 2007, 07:33:13 AM

Too extreme for what? He's just making blanket statements.

   ....Did you look at the picture of Lake Huron?

It's a beautiful picture.

Who said I'm not an RE'er?

I can prove the Earth is round, but I can't see it with my senses.

I can. The horizon on the ocean is curved. The horizon from a plane is curved. The horizon from space is curved. (haven't witnessed from space first hand)

We see the Earth is round. Yet people believe the Earth is Flat. Their theory is flawed. Laws of physics don't make exceptions just to trick our senses.

Why are physics making exceptions?

I can prove the Earth is round, but I can't see it with my senses.

Aww, you were doing so well before this.

Quote from: Yiak on November 12, 2007, 08:25:50 AM

We see the Earth is round. Yet people believe the Earth is Flat. Their theory is flawed. Laws of physics don't make exceptions just to trick our senses.

Why are physics making exceptions?

Laws of physics for rays of light. The Earth wouldn't appear round unless it was round. Otherwise looking at a round orange might freak you out from time to time.

Laws of physics for rays of light.

I thought Tomcooper84's Laws of Light were more reliable.

The increasing density of air to the vanishing point causes the appearance of a slight curvature.  It gets more pronounced the higher up you go because there is more air between you and the ground the further up you are.  Pictures like the one provided of Lake Huron are perhaps the most stunning visual evidence we have that the earth is flat.

why would density cause a curve? or is that just another unknown..

The Earth wouldn't appear round unless it was round.

Really? So Criss Angel really levitates?

Quote from: Yiak on November 12, 2007, 01:04:36 PM

The Earth wouldn't appear round unless it was round.

Really? So Criss Angel really levitates?

Criss Angel purposely tricks viewers. Off topic: it looks rather fake.

Laws of physics don't make exceptions just to trick our senses.

why would density cause a curve? or is that just another unknown..

It doesn't.  It causes the appearance of a curve.  If you look closely at the picture you can see that the closer to the vanishing point that you get the hazier the image appears.  This is the air getting progressively denser as it approaches the vanishing point.  The horizon itself curves as a natural effect of perspective; since it is the line that defines the furthest you can see as an observer, it will appear as a great circle all around you.  Naturally the higher up you are the more obvious this appearance of a circle becomes.

Quote from: Jenova Cell on November 12, 2007, 01:10:00 PM

why would density cause a curve? or is that just another unknown..

It doesn't.  It causes the appearance of a curve.  If you look closely at the picture you can see that the closer to the vanishing point that you get the hazier the image appears.  This is the air getting progressively denser as it approaches the vanishing point.  The horizon itself curves as a natural effect of perspective; since it is the line that defines the furthest you can see as an observer, it will appear as a great circle all around you.  Naturally the higher up you are the more obvious this appearance of a circle becomes.

After being all ooh technicality for the appearance of a curve, you say The horizon itself curves as a natural effect of perspective. lol

Ok seriously now. The circle of vanishing points is due to perspective of your vision. You cannot go hight than your perspective anymore than you can reach the vanishing point by running toward it. So why would perspective make it appear to be curved?

Criss Angel purposely tricks viewers. Off topic: it looks rather fake.

Quote

Laws of physics don't make exceptions just to trick our senses.

What does motive have to do with the fact that something doesn't always appear as is?

What about a straw in water? Or looking across a tarmac on a hot day?

I'm assuming you'll bring in some portion of, "well, we know how those occur." Well, logical conclusion would be that the variables aren't completely known for why the Earth appears curved. Again, seeing such a curvature only proves that it appears that way. If the Earth is flat, there must be something going on that we are missing.

Quote from: Yiak on November 12, 2007, 01:16:21 PM

Criss Angel purposely tricks viewers. Off topic: it looks rather fake.

Quote

Laws of physics don't make exceptions just to trick our senses.

What does motive have to do with the fact that something doesn't always appear as is?

What about a straw in water? Or looking across a tarmac on a hot day?

I'm assuming you'll bring in some portion of, "well, we know how those occur." Well, logical conclusion would be that the variables aren't completely known for why the Earth appears curved. Again, seeing such a curvature only proves that it appears that way. If the Earth is flat, there must be something going on that we are missing.

I never said motive has a play. We see him pretend to levitate while the laws of physics operate the same. He just hides the reason he doesn't touch the ground.

I never said appearances can't be deceiving.

A straw in water obeys the laws of physics.

Your conclusion of if the Earth is flat than something must be happening is valid logic but based on the Earth being flat. It is many times more likely that the Earth is simply round. Back to my orange example, let's say I have never eaten an orange and I see a round one. The chain of logic doesn't direct me to think it is flat and that light is being warped to make it appear round.

Your conclusion of if the Earth is flat than something must be happening is valid logic but based on the Earth being flat. It is many times more likely that the Earth is simply round.

I agree. The point is that FE isn't impossible, merely implausible.

Quote from: Thus Spake Roundy on November 12, 2007, 01:27:33 PM

Quote from: Jenova Cell on November 12, 2007, 01:10:00 PM

why would density cause a curve? or is that just another unknown..

It doesn't.  It causes the appearance of a curve.  If you look closely at the picture you can see that the closer to the vanishing point that you get the hazier the image appears.  This is the air getting progressively denser as it approaches the vanishing point.  The horizon itself curves as a natural effect of perspective; since it is the line that defines the furthest you can see as an observer, it will appear as a great circle all around you.  Naturally the higher up you are the more obvious this appearance of a circle becomes.

After being all ooh technicality for the appearance of a curve, you say The horizon itself curves as a natural effect of perspective. lol

You're mixing up what I was talking about.  Try to pay attention.

Ok seriously now. The circle of vanishing points is due to perspective of your vision. You cannot go hight than your perspective anymore than you can reach the vanishing point by running toward it. So why would perspective make it appear to be curved?

Because it is the line that defines the furthest an observer can see.  What do you call that geometric figure which has lines of equal length radiating out of its center in all directions? 

equal length in ALL directions would be a SPHERE...

Not if we're talking about a 2-dimensional surface.  Such as, for example, the surface of the earth.

Not if we're talking about a 2-dimensional surface.  Such as, for example, the surface of the earth.

Ok now wait a sec... gotta call you on that one. Even in FE theory, the surface of the earth isn't 2-dimensional. we'd all be screaming and slapping against a pane of glass like in superman's phantom zone! Not to mentio a total lack of topographical structures both natural and artificial. lol

Sorry - I realize the intent, but had to call the actual statement!

C-me!
John

All right, as long as you agree with the intent.  Another victory for FE, woo hoo.

Who said anything about agreed? I said I realized your intent, I didn't say I agreed with it. 

The horizon is the farthest we can see while were are on Earth. That doesn't mean that the horizon remains a fixed limit of vision. Perspective is due to our position. just...  wow. 

The horizon is the farthest we can see while were are on Earth. That doesn't mean that the horizon remains a fixed limit of vision. Perspective is due to our position. just...  wow. 

When did I say the horizon was a fixed limit of vision?  The horizon will be the circle you see around you whether you're right at the surface or ten miles above it.  What about that doesn't make sense to you? 

I look at that picture and I see the horizon making a curve in the distance.  The picture supports my contention.

Quote from: Yiak on November 13, 2007, 03:15:41 PM

The horizon is the farthest we can see while were are on Earth. That doesn't mean that the horizon remains a fixed limit of vision. Perspective is due to our position. just...  wow. 

When did I say the horizon was a fixed limit of vision?  The horizon will be the circle you see around you whether you're right at the surface or ten miles above it.  What about that doesn't make sense to you? 

I look at that picture and I see the horizon making a curve in the distance.  The picture supports my contention.

Except the curve is too close to be the outer edge of the disk...