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Flat Earth Debate / Re: Evidence for flat earth?

« on: March 03, 2024, 07:29:26 AM »

How could perspective make curved surfaces appear to be completely flat? 

Picture yourself standing on a ball that is the size of Los Angeles. You're at the top of this ball and in every direction you look, you can clearly see where the curve of the ball is. But then imagine the ball growing larger and larger right under your feet. You can imagine, I'm sure, where the curve of the ball would start moving away from you in all directions. And if you continue to picture this ball getting larger and larger, the curve that you could see with your eyes would eventually get so far away from you, that you would no longer be able to discern, from your vantage point, how far away the curve is and everything in all directions would simply look flat to you.

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Flat Earth Debate / Re: Curious about flat earth response to this video

« on: March 03, 2024, 07:24:45 AM »

My response is to show you this video.


It has a model of sun rotating the Earth.

So what that video is showing you, would essentially be this on the flat earth map, where the sun is staying up in the sky 24 hours a day for weeks on end without ever setting and that it is circling around this point on the flat earth map:

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Flat Earth Debate / The model is all that matters...

« on: March 02, 2024, 04:10:54 PM »

When talking about any hypothesis - an idea that someone has about anything in life that we can all see and comprehend, it is normal and expected that whatever someone's idea might be about how something works, they would create a model of it that would accurately demonstrate how the thing works so that everyone else can look at the model and then understand the mechanics of the phenomena that the person was trying to describe.

With the use of computers, it becomes easier to make such models and especially make models that are as accurate as possible. In terms of physical objects and the way they behave, we can write software that demonstrates the model and we call this a computer simulation.

There are key aspects of any simulation especially where a simulation is attempting to model the mechanics of our environment, the sun, the moon, and the Earth, there is one critical aspect of it that must be true if the model is to ever be accepted as being an accurate model. Most of all above anything, the model MUST demonstrate the things we see with our own eyes, and if it fails to do that, then the model is no good and must be rejected.

There are only two models that I am aware of when it comes to our planet. The Flat Earth model and the Globe model.

Flat Earth theory has such a program out there being sold on Steam (A gaming site). I purchased and ran this simulation and I must say in terms of a computer simulation, the software was well written and the graphics are professional status in my opinion.

Here is a short screen recording of that software being run on my machine:



What I would like to point out about this particular model of the Earth, is that in the simulation software, it says that the sun is 32 miles in diameter and that it is 3,000 miles above the flat surface of the Earth. But there are two key points that I bring into question:

1) The moon is reflecting the light of the sun above areas of the Earth that are shown as being dark
2) The model does not show the sun rising from below the horizon nor does it show the sun setting below the horizon

What seems puzzling to me, is that it depicts the sun as shining light down like a spotlight, yet you can clearly see that the moon is reflecting light from the sun which would mean that the light that is emitting from the sphere of the sun is in fact going out in all directions, yet it shows that at any given time, parts of the Earth are dark. The only explanation offered for this is the statement that the sun will appear from a ground observer to have disappeared over the horizon just like a flock of birds will when flying away from you.

However, I have a problem with that statement. First of all, birds are not 3,000 miles in the air and are maybe 1/4 mile high at best. Second, if we take the distances given in the model and scale them down to a more manageable size, we should then be able to demonstrate that on a flat surface, an object that is proportionally as high as the sun is, we should see it disappear when it is at some distance away from the observer.

Since the diameter of the Earth is roughly 22,000 miles in the flat earth model, and since the sun does not circle the Earth at its edges, we can safely say that the furthest possible distance that an observer on the ground could be from the sun - at any location on Earth - would be around 15,000 miles - give or take.

So then if we scale the model down, take an object like a drone, and have the drone hover at a height of 30 feet above the ground, the proportional distance away from the observer that would be 15,000 miles would be only 150 feet. And a drone that is 30 feet in the air at only 150 feet away would most definitely be visible even from ground level. You could double that distance and put the drone at 300 feet away (which would be 30,000 miles in real life which is impossible) and you would still see it.

This means that the depiction of the sun shining light as a spotlight where it is dark everywhere else is false. That is in fact not how it would work if that model is to be accepted as being accurate because, in fact, the entire Earth would be lit by the sun at all times, 24 hours a day at all locations on the Earth.

So this one simple fact alone is enough to dismiss the model as being an accurate model for what we all see with our own eyes every day.

No conspiracy theories are necessary - the model straight up fails to show us what we can all see with our own eyes.

The globe model, on the other hand, does in fact demonstrate what we all see with our own eyes.

Before showing you the simulation, I'd like to point out this video, which is a time-lapse video recorded from Antarctica over a period of nine months:



This is in fact what we see in the SOUTHERN sky from a location that on the flat earth map would be central and south at the very bottom of the map. On the globe model, it would be at the southern tip close to the earth's axis point of rotation.

The flat earth model says that what we see there, is impossible. It cannot happen - ever. Because of the way the sun moves in the flat earth model, the southern point on the map should see the sun rising and setting every 24 hours and that is not what we actually see.

The globe model, on the other hand, does accurately demonstrate what that video shows. Here is a screen recording that I made using a software simulation of the globe Earth model. In this clip, I have the camera looking at the south pole of the Earth, which is Antarctica:



I have the simulation advance time rapidly so we can see how the sun shines on that part of the planet throughout the year.

Notice that the globe model does in fact show us what we can see with our own eyes, specifically, how at the southern tip of the planet, the sun can shine 24 hours a day for months at a time and also how it can be totally dark for months at a time while for the rest of the planet, the sun continues to rise and set (from below the horizon to below the horizon) every 24 hours.

The globe model is the only model that accurately demonstrates what we can see with our own eyes.

This, alone, is enough of an accurate depiction of what we all see such that the flat earth model can be rejected and the globe model accepted as being the most accurate.

Einstein gave us the theory of general relativity. In his theory, he said that gravity is actually the bending of spacetime and that gravity is NOT a force. He said that the more dense an object is, the more it would warp spacetime and that objects in the vicinity of the more dense object would naturally follow their warped path of spacetime and would then head towards the center of that warp which in the case of the Earth would be the center of the earth. This means that from every point on the Earth, gravity is always pulling objects towards the center of the Earth and that is why we will always stand upright and feel as though up is up and down is down no matter where we are standing on the globe.

This is the truth of our planet and our reality and the globe model is the only model that actually works and demonstrates what we can all see with our own eyes.

NASA is not required to prove that the Earth is a globe. The model is all we need.

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Flat Earth Debate / Re: Evidence for flat earth?

« on: March 02, 2024, 03:38:32 AM »

Horizons are seen as a perfectly straight, horizontal line across the Earths surface, in all directions it’s seen in.

It is always seen as a straight and horizontal line, whatever the shape of line.

From a ground vantage point, this is 100% correct AND EXPECTED given the size of the earth. Refer back to my thought experiment. it only makes sense that in all directions, where the curve is so far away it cannot be seen, that everything would look flat from that vantage point.

The longest horizons we see are over thousands of miles long, and are straight and horizontal lines across them, as all of them are.

When was this established? From what vantage point? I would argue that at the point where things drop down below the horizon from a stationary vantage point, that the width of the horizon from a stationary field of view is less than a hundred miles across in any direction. The only way to confirm this would be to go out to that point where the object moving away from you drops below the horizon and place markers and measure the distances to the markers and using angles, calculate the horizon length.

If you are aware of such an experiment, I would be interested in seeing it.

A ball Earth is said to be about
24000 miles in circumference. That is its distance around the ball, when seen on the surface, outward to a horizon of about 3 miles away.

Again, evidence? Experiment notes? Anything to validate this claim?

But when we are 25000 feet above that ball, the circumference of 24000 miles is much smaller than that, because we are high above that ball, when seeing it from a great distance away from us.

Five miles above the earth when it has a circumference of 24,000 miles is hardly "high above that ball". 24,000 miles is 126,720,000 feet. 25,000 feet is only .0197% in ratio. That's not nearly high enough to be able to see the curve at the edges.

A flight of 2000 miles over the Earth, in clear daylight skies, seeing the same horizon along the flight, in consecutive segments over it, as a panorama view of it, is always a straight across line, nothing of a curve anywhere at all.

Ummm ... what planes do you know that fly 2,000 miles above the earth?

It’s that easy to prove Earth is flat, for absolute fact.

'Fraid not, you haven't proven anything and you've certainly not cited any evidence to back up the "facts" you seem to be claiming.

Look at a horizon about 3 miles away, at its center point from your position. Move along it at the same distance away, to see it as one straight line going across from you.

Again, my argument is that from a ground vantage point, everything will look flat in all directions when you're on a ball that is 24,000 miles in circumfrance.

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Flat Earth Debate / Re: Curious about flat earth response to this video

« on: March 02, 2024, 03:16:56 AM »

Conversely, with the FE, the distance varies so dramatically it isn't funny, and in a manner that makes no sense.
Consider the north pole during their summer.
That gets 24 hours of daylight, while the sun is circling above the tropics. That is remaining above a point roughly 7400 km away.
Yet places in the south, which would have the sun much further away for a very large portion of the time, are still much warmer.

The original point of the post was to discuss the path of the sun in the sky - specifically what is observed from the Earths surface, and a model that correctly explains what we see with our own eyes.

My point is that the flat earth model does not explain what we see with our own eyes while the global model does.

This, alone is enough evidence to abandon a flat earth model.

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Flat Earth Debate / Re: Curious about flat earth response to this video

« on: March 01, 2024, 10:33:27 PM »

The Sun goes in and out in cycles each year, like the video shows it in the central area of Earth, you call the North Pole area of a ball earth.

This shows how the Sun is moving above a flat Earth in cycles, a spiral that goes around in a circular pattern back and forth in a spiral.

Your Sun would hit half a ball Earth in one temperature all over Earth, half of it, all the time.

If the Sun was 80 million miles away or whatever, it’s heat will not vary after it travels 80 million miles out, over tiny distances on Earth, and way hotter if closer to it , not colder when closer to it.

That video was shot in Antarctica, which on the flat Earth map, would be at the center southernmost edge of the Earth. And the sun is circling around that southern point. The flat earth model says that this does not happen. Yet we can see from the video, that it does in fact happen. Only the global model of the Earth can visually explain this phenomenon.

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Flat Earth Debate / Evidence for flat earth?

« on: March 01, 2024, 10:24:46 PM »

If you remove ALL of the accusations of conspiracy from the flat earth argument. What remains? What science does flat earth ideology offer society? Where is the proof that the Earth is flat?

When you say things like, "I can see just by looking around me that the Earth is flat", this means you cannot visualize how that could be possible on a sphere. So I want to propose this thought experiment:

Picture yourself standing on a ball that is the size of Los Angeles. You're at the top of this ball and in every direction you look, you can clearly see where the curve of the ball is. But then imagine the ball growing larger and larger right under your feet. You can imagine, I'm sure, where the curve of the ball would start moving away from you in all directions. And if you continue to picture this ball getting larger and larger, the curve that you could see with your eyes would eventually get so far away from you, that you would no longer be able to discern, from your vantage point, how far away the curve is and everything in all directions would simply look flat to you.

So then the appearance of the earth looking flat from your vantage point is not evidence that the Earth is flat.

I purchased the flat earth simulation software from Steam gaming site and ran the simulation and read everything it had to say.

One of my biggest issues with the flat earth model is that it does not show how the sun can appear to rise up from below the horizon and then drop down below the horizon every single day. This is something we all see happening with our own eyes. But the flat earth model fails to show this happening.

The flat earth simulator simply says that the sun will appear to go below the horizon in the same way that birds will disappear below the horizon when watching them fly away.

That's the explanation of how the sun rises and sets every day. Yet it also says that the sun is 3,000 miles above the Earth. Since the longest distance anyone could ever be from the sun in terms of it being away from a person, could only be roughly 15,000 miles or so since the sun does not circle at the edge of the earth (where the earth's diameter is roughly 22,000 miles).

This means that at 3,000 miles high, at the max distance of 15,000 miles away, on a flat surface, the sun will NEVER drop down below the horizon.

In fact, I would argue that on a flat surface, NOTHING would drop below the horizon because on a flat earth, there would never be a horizon. The horizon is the breaking point where the curvature of the earth's surface drops down out of sight, and the only reason why birds even disappear is because they are following the path of the earth, where from their perspective they are going in a straight line, but since gravity is always in the direction of the center of the earth at all points along the globe, a person will always be upright no matter where they are on the globe, including the birds, but to a distant observer, the only reason why the birds drop below the horizon in the first place is because the curvature of the earth surface makes them drop out of view.

The only way to prove that objects could drop below the horizon on a flat surface would be to scale the model down to a manageable size and then show how the phenomena works on a flat surface and where the sun is 3,000 miles in the air at 15,000 miles away, you could take a drone at say 30 feet in the air and place it at a distance of 150 feet away and see if it is no longer visible. I assure you, it will be visible even from the ground. You could put that drone 300 feet away at 30 feet in the air and it will still be visible from the ground.

But this requires critical thinking and experimentation and in this case, the flat earth model fails miserably to show us how the sun drops below the horizon.

The only model that can show us visually, the things we see with our eyes every day, is the globe model where the sun is a long distance away and the spin of the globe on its axis explains the rising and setting of the sun. It also shows us how the sun can stay in the sky for weeks at a time at the southern and northern points on the globe because of the Earth being tilted on its axis and while the sun remains in the sky for weeks at a time - never setting, it continues to rise and set for the rest of us day in and day out. Only the globe model visually demonstrates that phenomenon - that we can all see with our own eyes.

In 450 BC, the Greeks had concluded that the Earth is a sphere, based solely on years of studying the stars and the moon and allowing that data to tell them what the shape of the Earth is. It has been accepted for more than 2,000 years that the Earth is a sphere ... no government coverups are required.

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Flat Earth Debate / Curious about flat earth response to this video

« on: March 01, 2024, 09:18:29 PM »

Hello,

I'm curious about what the flat earth response would be to this time-lapsed video taken from Antarctica, which shows how the sun doesn't set for days at a time and where even in the night sky, the stars spin around an axis of rotation, where the flat earth model doesn't show that this happens at all and in fact the flat earth model says that this cannot happen.