Why do you think the Earth is round?

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Re: Why do you think the Earth is round?
« Reply #90 on: July 07, 2009, 01:29:22 AM »
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We are taught not to question the shape of the Earth as surely as we are taught not to question that 2+2=4....

Were we all?  If so, upon what evidence do you make this claim?  If I told you the story of an eight-year-old in grade school who questioned why 1+1=2, and was subsequently shown the proof by a teacher who understood the importance of questioning things, would you believe me, or would you dismiss my story as mere fantasy?  Granted, that young boy didn't understand the proof at the time, but he did search for it...

To respond to the OP: NASA has pictures and eyewitness accounts of a RE; FE theory has claims of conspiracy without evidence.  In this respect, the RE approach is scientific, and the FE approach is not (at least, if I understand it correctly, it is not - correct me if I am wrong, FE'ers).  One of the most important parts of scientific hypotheses and tests is falsifiability; those things which are not falsifiable cannot be approached in such a manner.  While NASA pictures and eyewitness accounts are falsifiable, conspiracy theories (along with the "invisible sky fairy [that] is judging everything we do") are more or less not falsifiable.  In addition, RET is complete enough that the pictures and accounts from NASA and the other space agencies are not at all far-fetched.

That being said, FET presents an intriguing case for a FE.  It's not a complete case, though (see, for starters, my thread asking about the stars in the southern hemisphere).  

FE theorists often use their perception of the earth up close as a good reason to postulate that the earth is flat, not realizing that by accepting what they have been taught about planes and refusing to question the perceptions that arise from what they have been taught, they are doing exactly what they (perhaps rightfully) claim REers are doing.

So, to summarize, I believe the earth is round because the evidence that I have seen points to it.  As to things unexplained, I choose to believe in the existence of the gravitron (yes, one of the hypothetical aspects of physics) rather than an ever-accelerating earth because it is a better fit for what I have observed, what other people have observed, and the workings of the earth in general.  Am I taking a leap of faith in believing the physical laws taught to me?  Yes, but coupled with the fact that those laws are generally observable and always consistent, that leap of faith isn't so far fetched.  To me, it's a little bit like walking out one's door in the morning and thinking, "The planet beneath my feet appears to fit what I have been taught and observed about flatness, and therefore, I will believe it is flat until proven otherwise."

Hope that makes sense; it's kind of late here, so my mind is not working properly, and this probably ended up being a long rant (I'll edit it tomorrow, maybe).  Also, please note that I would not read a thing on this site if I were not interested in questioning those things I have been taught and observed.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2009, 01:55:27 AM by Hirgon Sadron »

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Parsifal

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Re: Why do you think the Earth is round?
« Reply #91 on: July 07, 2009, 05:42:10 AM »
To respond to the OP: NASA has pictures and eyewitness accounts of a RE; FE theory has claims of conspiracy without evidence.  In this respect, the RE approach is scientific, and the FE approach is not (at least, if I understand it correctly, it is not - correct me if I am wrong, FE'ers).  One of the most important parts of scientific hypotheses and tests is falsifiability; those things which are not falsifiable cannot be approached in such a manner.  While NASA pictures and eyewitness accounts are falsifiable, conspiracy theories (along with the "invisible sky fairy [that] is judging everything we do") are more or less not falsifiable.  In addition, RET is complete enough that the pictures and accounts from NASA and the other space agencies are not at all far-fetched.

That being said, FET presents an intriguing case for a FE.  It's not a complete case, though (see, for starters, my thread asking about the stars in the southern hemisphere).  

FE theorists often use their perception of the earth up close as a good reason to postulate that the earth is flat, not realizing that by accepting what they have been taught about planes and refusing to question the perceptions that arise from what they have been taught, they are doing exactly what they (perhaps rightfully) claim REers are doing.

So, to summarize, I believe the earth is round because the evidence that I have seen points to it.  As to things unexplained, I choose to believe in the existence of the gravitron (yes, one of the hypothetical aspects of physics) rather than an ever-accelerating earth because it is a better fit for what I have observed, what other people have observed, and the workings of the earth in general.  Am I taking a leap of faith in believing the physical laws taught to me?  Yes, but coupled with the fact that those laws are generally observable and always consistent, that leap of faith isn't so far fetched.  To me, it's a little bit like walking out one's door in the morning and thinking, "The planet beneath my feet appears to fit what I have been taught and observed about flatness, and therefore, I will believe it is flat until proven otherwise."

Hope that makes sense; it's kind of late here, so my mind is not working properly, and this probably ended up being a long rant (I'll edit it tomorrow, maybe).  Also, please note that I would not read a thing on this site if I were not interested in questioning those things I have been taught and observed.

Another person who seems to feel that comparing RET to FET is relevant to the topic. Again, I'm not asking why you don't believe in a Flat Earth, I'm asking why you do believe in a Round Earth. Your belief in RET has nothing to do with FET, and you shouldn't need to resort to pointing out flaws in FET to justify your belief in RET. While it may be true that when only comparing these two theories, RET is the "better fit for what [is] observed", that doesn't make it the best possible fit for what is observed - which, really, is what you should be trying to justify.
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Re: Why do you think the Earth is round?
« Reply #92 on: July 07, 2009, 05:55:07 AM »
Why exactly, should we have to justify it to you?

I believe in a round earth, because it makes sense. Any other "theory" presented to me thus far in life, appears to be severely flawed, so i believe the earth is round.

Coupled with the undeniable evidence provided to you in countless threads, which you deny, but like you rightly point out, that is a different matter altogether.

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Crudblud

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Re: Why do you think the Earth is round?
« Reply #93 on: July 07, 2009, 05:58:25 AM »
I believe the earth is round because I was taught so in school, and since the shape of the earth is not really of any consequence to me, I don't really bother to question the theory.

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Parsifal

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Re: Why do you think the Earth is round?
« Reply #94 on: July 07, 2009, 05:58:50 AM »
Why exactly, should we have to justify it to you?

Because I would like to know what makes REers so firmly believe in what they do. Most of them claim it is based on science and not faith, and so I am curious as to what science has convinced them so firmly that the Earth is round.

Any other "theory" presented to me thus far in life, appears to be severely flawed, so i believe the earth is round.

This makes no sense. You can't base your belief in one theory on the implausibility of its rivals.
I'm going to side with the white supremacists.

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Parsifal

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Re: Why do you think the Earth is round?
« Reply #95 on: July 07, 2009, 06:00:58 AM »
I believe the earth is round because I was taught so in school, and since the shape of the earth is not really of any consequence to me, I don't really bother to question the theory.

Most schools still teach religious education, and the existence (or nonexistence) of God is of no consequence to most in today's world. Does this mean you believe in God?
I'm going to side with the white supremacists.

Re: Why do you think the Earth is round?
« Reply #96 on: July 07, 2009, 06:05:30 AM »
Any other "theory" presented to me thus far in life, appears to be severely flawed, so i believe the earth is round.

This makes no sense. You can't base your belief in one theory on the implausibility of its rivals.

Of course i can.

I believe that Whales swim around in the ocean.

It's also possible that whales ride around on bikes. However, this seems somewhat implausible, which is why i believe they swim.

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Parsifal

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Re: Why do you think the Earth is round?
« Reply #97 on: July 07, 2009, 06:06:37 AM »
Of course i can.

I believe that Whales swim around in the ocean.

It's also possible that whales ride around on bikes. However, this seems somewhat implausible, which is why i believe they swim.

Whales do not ride bikes, therefore they swim? Cheetahs also do not ride bikes, I suppose they swim too?
I'm going to side with the white supremacists.

Re: Why do you think the Earth is round?
« Reply #98 on: July 07, 2009, 06:09:41 AM »
No, cheetahs swimming across the serengeti is implausible.


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Parsifal

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Re: Why do you think the Earth is round?
« Reply #99 on: July 07, 2009, 06:12:39 AM »
No, cheetahs swimming across the serengeti is implausible.

Then your belief that whales swim is obviously not based on the fact that their riding bikes is implausible.
I'm going to side with the white supremacists.

Re: Why do you think the Earth is round?
« Reply #100 on: July 07, 2009, 06:19:25 AM »
Please explain further, what you mean.

My belief that whales do not cycle is based upon the fact that it is implausible, ridiculous if you will.

Similarly, my belief that running or walking is the cheetah's mode of transport of choice, includes the fact that a cheetah swimming across the serengeti, or riding a bike, are both implausible. Whales swimming, and Cheetah's running makes sense.

Round Earth make sense.


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Crudblud

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Re: Why do you think the Earth is round?
« Reply #101 on: July 07, 2009, 06:21:27 AM »
I believe the earth is round because I was taught so in school, and since the shape of the earth is not really of any consequence to me, I don't really bother to question the theory.

Most schools still teach religious education, and the existence (or nonexistence) of God is of no consequence to most in today's world. Does this mean you believe in God?

The existence or nonexistence of God as seen in the Bible and various other religious texts is of consequence to me, because if this God is real, it has an impact on what happens to me after I die, and according to the aforementioned religious texts, based on the way I have so far lived my life, I will be sent to a place of eternal torture after I die. I don't believe in God, but if such a being were to exist, it would have far greater an effect on my life than the shape of the Earth.

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Parsifal

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Re: Why do you think the Earth is round?
« Reply #102 on: July 07, 2009, 06:23:30 AM »
My belief that whales do not cycle is based upon the fact that it is implausible, ridiculous if you will.

Yes, but that's not what you said. You said you believe they swim because it is implausible that they cycle.

Similarly, my belief that running or walking is the cheetah's mode of transport of choice, includes the fact that a cheetah swimming across the serengeti, or riding a bike, are both implausible.

Why does it matter? They are observed to run/walk, so what difference does it make whether swimming and cycling are plausible alternatives?

Whales swimming, and Cheetah's running makes sense.

Yes it does. So it is irrelevant whether or not any other mode of transport makes sense, as these are clearly their respective observed behaviours.

Round Earth make sense.

And this is where I must ask that you justify this statement, lest your posting in this thread be completely inconsequential.
I'm going to side with the white supremacists.

Re: Why do you think the Earth is round?
« Reply #103 on: July 07, 2009, 06:28:36 AM »
LOL, you're a funny guy, you ever been told that? Probably not tbh.

Anyway, how do you know that cheetah's run in the wild? Have you seen video's? They could be faked you know?

I believe in RE, because i have observed it as such, through study of basic physics and maths, as well as countless video clips and photographs taken from altitude, and as far as space.

Now, naturally, you will tell me these are fakes, created by the conspiracy, as all evidence provided is declared false.

Which really only leaves the question "Can you prove the existence of a conspiracy"

Without an answer, it makes your entire existence on this forum completely inconsequential.

I have given you ample reasons for my belief in RE. That is what the thread asked for. Agree?

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Parsifal

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Re: Why do you think the Earth is round?
« Reply #104 on: July 07, 2009, 08:44:28 AM »
I believe in RE, because i have observed it as such, through study of basic physics and maths, as well as countless video clips and photographs taken from altitude, and as far as space.

Thank you.

I have given you ample reasons for my belief in RE. That is what the thread asked for. Agree?

Yes.
I'm going to side with the white supremacists.

Re: Why do you think the Earth is round?
« Reply #105 on: July 07, 2009, 09:28:01 AM »
I believe in a round Earth because superior scientific minds to mine have concluded that a round Earth is more plausible than other rival theories. It's impossible as far as I'm concerned to learn and test every single scientific theory and idea for myself, so it's necessary to put trust into scientists who have earned it. When concerning the shape of the Earth I'm happy to follow the majority of scientific authority and conclude for myself that it's round. This level of naivety I believe is excusable when I also admit that as soon as a more credible and widely accepted theory comes along I will have an open mind and will happily embrace this new theory provided it makes more sense.

When I say "makes more sense" I think this comes with two criteria. The first is that it comes with more scientific proof and evidence than its predecessor, I leave it to the general scientific authorities to demonstrate their approval of the evidence rather than testing it for myself. The second is that the theory is free of pseudoscience. This means the theory answers more questions than its predecessor and doesn't give rise to more questions than it answers.

I'll give a demonstration to this second criteria based on the FET vs RET debate. As a round Earther I'm sceptical when given the idea that the Earth is flat, but for arguments sake let's say I actually trusted the proof of the flat Earth and believed they had been tested by credible sources. Now I would look at both theories to find the following:

RET - This theory is based on gravity, gravity explains why we stick to the Earths surface, it explains celestial objects and their characteristics. It explains day and night, how the Earth and other celestial bodies can form in outer space and why we get seasons as well as explaining many phenomenon we otherwise couldn't explain. The only question this theory rises is "what is gravity?"

FET - This theory is based on universal acceleration, this explains why we stick to the Earths surface. It also explains why the Earth may appear to be flat from the perspective of a human. This theory raises many questions including "why do we get night and day time?", "how does the atmosphere and ocean stay on the Earth?", "how did the Earth and all other celestial objects form?" as well as many more. These questions cannot be explained without a number of assumptions and guesses and therefore this theory is dependant on a long line of baby theories, which also happen to give rise to more questions than they answer.

When looked at in this perspective I hope it's clear why I stick with the round Earth theory.


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Re: Why do you think the Earth is round?
« Reply #106 on: July 07, 2009, 09:35:34 AM »
...So, to summarize, I believe the earth is round because the evidence that I have seen points to it...

Another person who seems to feel that comparing RET to FET is relevant to the topic. Again, I'm not asking why you don't believe in a Flat Earth, I'm asking why you do believe in a Round Earth. Your belief in RET has nothing to do with FET, and you shouldn't need to resort to pointing out flaws in FET to justify your belief in RET. While it may be true that when only comparing these two theories, RET is the "better fit for what [is] observed", that doesn't make it the best possible fit for what is observed - which, really, is what you should be trying to justify.

This is the FET forum; comparing belief in RET to belief in FET is very relevant to the topic.  It is first necessary to provide comparisons that FEers will understands (as some have a tendency to only read part of a post, like most REers on this forum), and second to say that I have considered FET (the subject of this particular forum, and the whole reason we're having this discussion in the first place), decided it doesn't work, and will continue to adhere to the theory I think fits the evidence.  I know of no other theories regarding the earth's shape, and really have no need to develop one of my own, as RET provides a more-than-ample fit; if you know of any other sound theories, I'd be happy to look at them.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2009, 09:38:53 AM by Hirgon Sadron »

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shaunbirch

Re: Why do you think the Earth is round?
« Reply #107 on: July 07, 2009, 10:41:45 AM »
so, if the Earth is flat, how deep is the crust? we have drilled down miles and havent yet come out at the other end, if the earth is FLAT then it shouldnt be too deep, well not as deep as it is being a round earth, please elaborate with your thoughts

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: Why do you think the Earth is round?
« Reply #108 on: July 07, 2009, 10:46:03 AM »
so, if the Earth is flat, how deep is the crust? we have drilled down miles and havent yet come out at the other end, if the earth is FLAT then it shouldnt be too deep, well not as deep as it is being a round earth, please elaborate with your thoughts

How do you justify your contention that a flat Earth shouldn't be very deep?  It can be infinitely deep and still flat, if the top surface is flat.
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

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Marcus Aurelius

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Re: Why do you think the Earth is round?
« Reply #109 on: July 07, 2009, 12:11:36 PM »
After seeing a hundred of these threads directed at FE believers, I would like to hear some answers as to why REers believe what they do.

Seriously, I simply do not believe in massive conspiracy theories with no direct evidence to support them.  It's not necessarily a matter of simply believing what I am told without question, it's more about the difficulty that I believe would be required to orchestrate such a lie.


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Parsifal

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Re: Why do you think the Earth is round?
« Reply #110 on: July 07, 2009, 03:26:54 PM »
When looked at in this perspective I hope it's clear why I stick with the round Earth theory.

No, it isn't. It's only clear why you think it is preferable to Flat Earth Theory, which for the umpteenth time is not what this thread is about.

I know of no other theories regarding the earth's shape, and really have no need to develop one of my own, as RET provides a more-than-ample fit; if you know of any other sound theories, I'd be happy to look at them.

This does not do anything to explain your belief in RET; only your lack of belief in any other theory. What I am after is a coherent post explaining your reasons for believing in RET without resorting to listing the flaws in opposing theories which really have nothing to do with RET.

Seriously, I simply do not believe in massive conspiracy theories with no direct evidence to support them.  It's not necessarily a matter of simply believing what I am told without question, it's more about the difficulty that I believe would be required to orchestrate such a lie.

And where is the logical connection from this to a belief that the Earth is round?
I'm going to side with the white supremacists.

Re: Why do you think the Earth is round?
« Reply #111 on: July 07, 2009, 04:30:34 PM »
Seriously, I simply do not believe in massive conspiracy theories with no direct evidence to support them.  It's not necessarily a matter of simply believing what I am told without question, it's more about the difficulty that I believe would be required to orchestrate such a lie.

And where is the logical connection from this to a belief that the Earth is round?

You seem to be a man of reason. You can't really query a RE believer as it complies to the scientific method. However FET has holes in it which it fills with highly unscientific ideas (conspiracy & philisophical scepticism) and falls down to Occam's Razor.
There is much science supporting a RE whereas there is almost nothing to support a flat earth. Surely the logical approach would deem a RE far more reasonable & a logical conclusion than a FE. This is generally why people believe in a round earth.

Re: Why do you think the Earth is round?
« Reply #112 on: July 07, 2009, 05:14:55 PM »
When looked at in this perspective I hope it's clear why I stick with the round Earth theory.

No, it isn't. It's only clear why you think it is preferable to Flat Earth Theory, which for the umpteenth time is not what this thread is about.

FET vs RET was only an example of two conflicting ideas and how I'd go about favouring one. My post wasn't focused on how I compare the two theories in particular. If my post doesn't satisfy you then I'm not really sure what it is you're interested in, other than perhaps a short reply on the lines of "I believe what I'm told". I'd be very disappointed if this whole thread was a cheap attempt at labelling round Earthers as close minded and I must say I'd expect more from someone so egoistic over their intelligence.


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freakydallas13

Re: Why do you think the Earth is round?
« Reply #113 on: July 07, 2009, 09:27:35 PM »
because when you watch a ship with a tall mast sail into the horizon, the hull disappears first. eventually, just the tip of the mast is showing. How else can this be possible?

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Why do you think the Earth is round?
« Reply #114 on: July 07, 2009, 09:31:18 PM »
because when you watch a ship with a tall mast sail into the horizon, the hull disappears first. eventually, just the tip of the mast is showing. How else can this be possible?

You can read about it in Earth Not a Globe by Samuel Birley Rowbotham, a link to which can be found in my signature.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2009, 09:57:34 PM by Tom Bishop »

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freakydallas13

Re: Why do you think the Earth is round?
« Reply #115 on: July 07, 2009, 09:47:43 PM »
because when you watch a ship with a tall mast sail into the horizon, the hull disappears first. eventually, just the tip of the mast is showing. How else can this be possible?

You cab read about it in Earth Not a Globe by Samuel Birley Rowbotham, a link to which can be found in my signature.



what chapter? Im not reading through 400 pages to find this

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dyno

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Re: Why do you think the Earth is round?
« Reply #116 on: July 07, 2009, 09:54:15 PM »
because when you watch a ship with a tall mast sail into the horizon, the hull disappears first. eventually, just the tip of the mast is showing. How else can this be possible?

You cab read about it in Earth Not a Globe by Samuel Birley Rowbotham, a link to which can be found in my signature.
Don't listen to TB on this point. Already refuted here http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=22317.0

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Why do you think the Earth is round?
« Reply #117 on: July 07, 2009, 09:58:03 PM »
what chapter? Im not reading through 400 pages to find this

Start with Chapter 14.

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Squat

Re: Why do you think the Earth is round?
« Reply #118 on: July 07, 2009, 11:28:41 PM »
what chapter? Im not reading through 400 pages to find this

Start with Chapter 14.


From the link you have provided, there is no Chapter 14 in Earth Not a Globe.  There is a Section 14. Is that what you mean?  Isn't Section 14 where he pulls all his 'research' together to reach the wrong conclusion?

Section 13 deals with 'Perspective on the Sea'.

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Why do you think the Earth is round?
« Reply #119 on: July 07, 2009, 11:43:11 PM »
what chapter? Im not reading through 400 pages to find this

Start with Chapter 14.


From the link you have provided, there is no Chapter 14 in Earth Not a Globe.  There is a Section 14. Is that what you mean?  Isn't Section 14 where he pulls all his 'research' together to reach the wrong conclusion?

Section 13 deals with 'Perspective on the Sea'.

http://www.screencast.com/users/tbishop/folders/Jing/media/cb3b280c-53ab-4268-9eea-d45f522262e2