Just Curious

Quote from: Googleotomy on September 14, 2018, 11:46:03 AM

Quote from: Bullwinkle on September 14, 2018, 11:28:42 AM

Quote from: Googleotomy on September 13, 2018, 11:14:58 AM

Have you ever been in any country's Navy ?
Have you ever been to sea on any kind of ship in any country ?
I was in great company in the USN and we all knew the earth was a globe.

When you were in the Navy, being told what to think and what to do and when to do it, did anyone actually ask you what you think or how you feel about anything?

Oh yes !
Quite a bit of my shipmates both in our own O-E Division and others.
And most of the Officers, from the Captain and the Chaplain on down to our own O-E  Division Officer were interested and concerned in our well being.
They were always interested in our ideas on how to improve things.
But the words "flat earth" were not even heard of back in those days.
We didn't even know those words existed,
LOL

So you got shorter work days and more shore time?

Sometimes there were short days and many more there were very long work days. Preparing for one of many inspections.. On deployment there are many times when you work every day for a month straight never even seeing land.

Quote from: Googleotomy on September 14, 2018, 11:46:03 AM

Quote from: Bullwinkle on September 14, 2018, 11:28:42 AM

Quote from: Googleotomy on September 13, 2018, 11:14:58 AM

Have you ever been in any country's Navy ?
Have you ever been to sea on any kind of ship in any country ?
I was in great company in the USN and we all knew the earth was a globe.

When you were in the Navy, being told what to think and what to do and when to do it, did anyone actually ask you what you think or how you feel about anything?

Oh yes !
Quite a bit of my shipmates both in our own O-E Division and others.
And most of the Officers, from the Captain and the Chaplain on down to our own O-E  Division Officer were interested and concerned in our well being.
They were always interested in our ideas on how to improve things.
But the words "flat earth" were not even heard of back in those days.
We didn't even know those words existed,
LOL

So you got shorter work days and more shore time?

Not necesarily. You might get an award or a special mention if you did something more or exceptional than was usually expected.

Just one more nit pick. I  have heard the term "Shore Leave" used  from some books and movies. Maybe it was old term.But I never heard it used. There was "Liberty", which was just for "going ashore" , such as for the off-duty persons on a  weekend. "Leave" was for longer periods such as up to 30 days for going home "On Leave"... I think it was called "Furlough" in the Army ?.

Work was work and you were expected to get it done. No rewards for "shorter work days" or more "shore time".....at least in my experience. I guess we were very fortunate. In our case nothing bad ever happened, but we were expected to keep everything "ship shape" on a 24/7 basis.

We got a bit off topic. :-(

On one "Liberty" , some of us  pooled our financial resources, rented a car and drove from San Diego to visit the Mount Palomar Observatory.
This was the first experience for some us and a memorable experience for all of us,
That's why I always recommend it to anyone and everyone on and off these forums..

I’m a flatearther and I’ve never been to an astronomical observatory, and I never will.  Last thing I need is some doctored telescope or cheap cgi try to bamboozle me.

And why would you claim that there is any "doctored telescope"?
Go and read something on astronomical telescopes and see that there is nothing to "doctor" in them in say: Bright Hub, Buying the Best Beginner Telescopes For Amateur Astronomers.
Australia alone has some 30 amateur astronomical groups, so are you suggest that all these memners are either deluded or lying to the rest of the world.

An accurate count of the amateur astronomers worldwide would be impossible but hers's one estimate:

gary
08-08-2011, 04:56 PM
Hi Paul,
Your choice of selections is too small.

We estimate that world-wide there are in the order of 500,000 observing enthusiasts.

Best Regards

Gary Kopff
Managing Director
Wildcard Innovations Pty. Ltd.

But I'm amazed at the totally closed minds of so many flat-earthers. It seems that any contrary evidence is automatically declared fake (CGI) or fraudulent.

Quote from: Man_of_reason on September 13, 2018, 11:00:02 AM

I’m a flatearther and I’ve never been to an astronomical observatory, and I never will.  Last thing I need is some doctored telescope or cheap cgi try to bamboozle me.

And why would you claim that there is any "doctored telescope"?
Go and read something on astronomical telescopes and see that there is nothing to "doctor" in them in say: Bright Hub, Buying the Best Beginner Telescopes For Amateur Astronomers.

Newtonian Reflecting Telescope

Cassegrain Reflecting Telescope

Australia alone has some 30 amateur astronomical groups, so are you suggest that all these memners are either deluded or lying to the rest of the world.

An accurate count of the amateur astronomers worldwide would be impossible but hers's one estimate:

Quote

gary
08-08-2011, 04:56 PM
Hi Paul,
Your choice of selections is too small.

We estimate that world-wide there are in the order of 500,000 observing enthusiasts.

Best Regards

Gary Kopff
Managing Director
Wildcard Innovations Pty. Ltd.

But I'm amazed at the totally closed minds of so many flat-earthers. It seems that any contrary evidence is automatically declared fake (CGI) or fraudulent.

Perhaps some FE can correct me if I'm wrong, but these are what I think I have read on these forums.:
(1) Telescopes are "doctored" with an image of a planet printed inside them to make you think you are looking at a planet.
       Saturn with its rings, for example.
(2) Planets do not exist. Those pretty colored pictures you see are just paintings or CGI done by a staff of NASA artists.
(3) Planets and so-called space missions are named for pagan gods such as Mercury, Venus, Apollo, etc.This is proof that  all
      astronomers and NASA are satanic Satan worshippers.
      I suppose you could include the United States Navy. There were some Repair Ships named for mythological characters and Greek
     gods such as the USS Prometheus (AR-3).
(4) There is also a fundamentalist religious group that says that if you  say you believe the earth is a globe and if you don't believe in a
     flat earth as they do, when you die you're going straight to The Bad Place in a hand--basket. Based on Isaaiah 40:22. The earth is a
     circle. A circle is flat.

Are there any estimates on how many visitors to observatories and planetariums there are in a year ?
Are there more or less visitors than flat earthers ?
How many visitors were flat earthers ?

Quote from: Googleotomy on September 14, 2018, 11:46:03 AM

Quote from: Bullwinkle on September 14, 2018, 11:28:42 AM

Quote from: Googleotomy on September 13, 2018, 11:14:58 AM

Have you ever been in any country's Navy ?
Have you ever been to sea on any kind of ship in any country ?
I was in great company in the USN and we all knew the earth was a globe.

When you were in the Navy, being told what to think and what to do and when to do it, did anyone actually ask you what you think or how you feel about anything?

Oh yes !
Quite a bit of my shipmates both in our own O-E Division and others.
And most of the Officers, from the Captain and the Chaplain on down to our own O-E  Division Officer were interested and concerned in our well being.
They were always interested in our ideas on how to improve things.
But the words "flat earth" were not even heard of back in those days.
We didn't even know those words existed,
LOL

So you got shorter work days and more shore time?

This is a bit off topic......But.....To answer your question.:
You might have heard of the Navy Term "Captain's Mast."
This originated from the old custom of when the Captain called the crew to a meeting around the ship's mast to hand out punishment to those who had done some wrong-doing.
But there is also "Meritorious Mast" where it is made known to all hands that you have done something exceptional and you would be awarded a "Letter Of Commendation" for example.
I don't remember anyone ever getting "shorter hours and more shore time" as an award.......LOL

The Earth is very special for sure, per those really in the know. Using the "P" word for Earth requires proof.   

You don't need an observatory or, for that matter, a rocket to know the Earth is flat.

It seems whenever REers try to prove a claim they either enter an observatory or climb into a rocket and fly away.

Observations on Earth are the best way to substantiate claims of Earth shape.

Why are flat earthers so adamant in their belief of this flat earth nonsense  when there are absolutetly no facts or evidence to support it  ?
The earth has been always a globe and there have always been facts and evidence to support it for over 2500 years ?
Is it just some sort of insanity ?

Admittedly if you are not in some field of work where knowledge of the globe is essential, you wouldn't need to know what the shape of the earth is.
Not knowing this ,  simply "it looks flat where I'm standing" might be the only reason ?

I just started this thread or subject because I'm just curious as to why some people still  think the earth is flat in the year 2018 ?
 
To Gotham:
What would you say about an observation of the horizon would be in relation as to whether or not the earth is flat or has a curvature ?
You don't need to go to an observatory or a rocket to observe this. You would , however , just need to go down to a beach or shore to observe this best.

Here is just one practical (and actual) application of "Observations on Earth" :
The elevation of Point Loma at San Diego, CA, USA is 422 feet above sea level.
The elevation of Diamond Head at Honolulu, HI, USA is 762 feet above sea level.
There is nothing but the Pacific Ocean between them.
The distance between them is 2601.89 miles.
If the earth was flat , and If I had a powerful enough telescope with the proper filters to see through "the thickness of the atmoplane" I should surely  be able to see Diamond Head from Point Loma.
But I can't.
Why not ?
Because of the curvature of the earth I can only see as far as to the horizon....Because the earth is a globe.
If I am on the top of the  peak of Point Loma I can only see about 25 or 30 miles at the most to the horizon.
And likewise a person at the top of the peak of Diamond Head should be able to see Point Loma.
But they can't...For the same reason.
Been. there..?Done that....At Point Loma.

RET has tried to use horizon observation to support its claim of Earth shape correctness.  Unfortunately for them, FEers have made the same observations from all different heights via walking, autos, planes and trains.  FEers have always made unbiased assessments based on these observations since there is not a "tug" away from reality.

The reporting is thusly more accurate by FEers. 

Long story short is that FEers are better at putting the real in reality.

As far as thickness of the atmoplane goes it is disruption in the atmoplanic thickness that can interfere with a telescope being used to rationalize longer range observation.           

RET has tried to use horizon observation to support its claim of Earth shape correctness.  Unfortunately for them, FEers have made the same observations from all different heights via walking, autos, planes and trains.  FEers have always made unbiased assessments based on these observations since there is not a "tug" away from reality.

The reporting is thusly more accurate by FEers. 

Long story short is that FEers are better at putting the real in reality.

As far as thickness of the atmoplane goes it is disruption in the atmoplanic thickness that can interfere with a telescope being used to rationalize longer range observation.         

I suppose the US Navy lies to its recruits during training.

Also remember that ships' lookouts for centuries have used the visible horizon distance to estimate the range of other ships and land and that range varies in a fairly predictable way with eye height.

The following is an extract from a USN Handbook :

(   Sorry, but I guess they are part of the conspiracy!   )

Quote from: Lookout Training Handbook NAVEDTRA 12968-D

RANGE ESTIMATION
Question CIC concerning the radar ranges to visual contacts and compare them with your estimated range. 

The only readily available reference point you can use when estimating ranges is the horizon.  Knowing your height above the waterline will help you estimate ranges because the distance to the horizon varies with the height of the eye (Figure 5-5).

HEIGHT OF EYE	RANGE TO	HORIZON
FEET	YARDS	MILES
20	10,200	5.1
40	14,400	7.2
60	17,800	8.9
80	20,600	10.3

Figure 5-5: Range – Height Table

At a height of 50 feet, for example, the distance to the horizon is about 16,000 yards (8 miles); at a height of 100 feet, the distance is about 23,000 yards (11-1/2 miles).  Practice estimating ranges to other vessels in company whose distances are known or can be easily determined. 
 

Do you think those poor sailors got confused when they found that the Navy had lied to them? 

I  vaguely remember that at least one member here has had some experience in the Navy .

RET has tried to use horizon observation to support its claim of Earth shape correctness.  Unfortunately for them, FEers have made the same observations from all different heights via walking, autos, planes and trains.  FEers have always made unbiased assessments based on these observations since there is not a "tug" away from reality.

The reporting is thusly more accurate by FEers. 

Long story short is that FEers are better at putting the real in reality.

As far as thickness of the atmoplane goes it is disruption in the atmoplanic thickness that can interfere with a telescope being used to rationalize longer range observation.         

Well.........Tell that to the Marines !......LOL
Or anyone in the Navy !
I would hate to think of the consequences to you.!    :-(
You could  certainly use a camera with a telescopic lens,infra red film and the proper filters to elminate the intrrference from the (Quote) "atmoplane" (Unquote).
At least it works  on the "round earth" !     LOL
Been there. Done that.

And I suppose "The Navy Manual For Lookouts" with the tables for the distance to the horizon according to the height of the observer is all nothihg but a pack of lies ?

RET has tried to use horizon observation to support its claim of Earth shape correctness.  Unfortunately for them, FEers have made the same observations from all different heights via walking, autos, planes and trains.  FEers have always made unbiased assessments based on these observations since there is not a "tug" away from reality.

The reporting is thusly more accurate by FEers. 

Long story short is that FEers are better at putting the real in reality.

As far as thickness of the atmoplane goes it is disruption in the atmoplanic thickness that can interfere with a telescope being used to rationalize longer range observation.         

I would really like some flat earth answers regarding the horizon.:
(1) What is the flat earth definition of the horizon ?
(2) What is the distance to the horizon on a flat earth ?
(3) Since the earth is flat and there no point of curvature, how would distances to the horizon be estimated  for various heights of the obsever ?
(4) Would there even be a visible horizon on a flat earth, due to it being so far that " it was being obscured by the thickness of the 'atmoplane' " ?