How is it possible to see the sun rise or set?

If you have no answer, say so!

<rubbish, alt account>

Look mister. You have not deserve a serious answer, because you are not a man deserve an answer. You don'T like me and your all behaviours show this. I don't like you at all and all my behaviours show this. You even hate me and your all behaviours prove this. You hate me, you are in anger on me and I don't like you because of your behaviours which clearly show your hate are harrassing me.

Even so you are geting me as an adress and ask me for an answer. In ordinarly we never stay in same environment in ordinary life. But since here is a virtual environment allows you to reply me, you use it bad mindly. I'll not ignore you because you are using it as an option to insult me freely. Because you are not a human.

Your behaviours are not normal. You are not a normal man. You are telling you mention me because of you want to reveal the truth; but in fact, you are doing it only to hate me instead. You are using arguments as punch or a bullet. You are firing me in your sick mind with all threads you enter where I write in. You are fighting against me, not discussing.

Look mister. I don't give you a value as your being a human. In my opinion you can not be accepted as a human, but animal more than it. But even so you are mentioening and queting me and waiting for an answer. Even Nazi speech you see here, but instead of defending the humanity you denfed NAZI's here if you see they target me in a way.

I don't like you at all how you hate me and I have not to reply you at all because you are not a human in my opinion. You are not a human, but an animal in my opinion.

Choke and die in your anger and go the hell.

Choke and die in your anger and go the hell.

Please keep this sort of tirade for the AR forum. Thanks, much appreciated.

Quote from: wise on May 09, 2019, 12:53:50 AM

Choke and die in your anger and go the hell.

Please keep this sort of tirade for the AR forum. Thanks, much appreciated.

You are not a man can offer or want me do anything. Your using please or thanks words are not an evidence your not being a rude man anymore. Oppositely you are still playing. Just give up to be an animal after now. Then you'll not need to say please or thanks to me that both of us know you did not like to say it, now or in soon or far future.

humans can change their behavior if they got convinced

@wise
I understand the tactic: just use bullshit to force your point across, even if it doesn't address the question. And if you don't have anything to say at all, just spout some irrelevant crap.

So you are alt of somebody denying to continue the discussing, but insulting instead, right

I asked a simple question: how can we see the sun set if, by the figures obtained from your website, the sun never gets near the horizon. I have not had one single reply which addresses that point. I've had some rubbish about how the sun supposedly looks larger away from the horizon. However, my point is that it does not even come close to the horizon. So what am I seeing when I see the sun sink below the horizon?

Care to address that?

@wise
I understand the tactic: just use bullshit to force your point across...

I asked a simple question: how can we see the sun set if, by the figures obtained from your website, the sun never gets near the horizon. I have not had one single reply which addresses that point.

Your question is already a BS by itself. Look.

I cannot figure out how the sun can rise or set with the version of a flat earth as accepted by this website.

Website isn't a human can not accept anything. If you adress a source so you have to show it. Calling us as bullshit is not making our claims bullshit but makes yourself bullshit when you claim anything absent as an argument.

Ask me now:

"Who is website accept anything?". Is it wiki? Is it me? It is John Davis, sandokhan or Tom Bishop? Who are you adressing to?

Before any of us say anything in this thread you have started to blame us to talk bullshit, before we did not say anything; although your question was a clear BS, we did not say your thoughts as BS, right?

This is our difference you globularists can not give up your anger. Give it up. Throw your anger out and talk sincere here. This is really not hard.

Look mister. You have not deserve a serious answer, because you are not a man deserve an answer.

I do deserve an answer.
I raised a valid objection to your claims.
If you don't wish to address this objection you shouldn't be in the debate section.


Now again, do you think the sun magically jumps in front of the mountain?
Do you think it magically shrinks when a cloud goes in front?
Or is that just glare?

And no, me continually calling you out on your false claims is not harassing you.

Either grow up and start debating, or leave the debate forum.

Quote from: wise on May 09, 2019, 12:53:50 AM

Look mister. You have not deserve a serious answer, because you are not a man deserve an answer.

I do deserve an answer.
I raised a valid objection to your claims.
If you don't wish to address this objection you shouldn't be in the debate section.


Now again, do you think the sun magically jumps in front of the mountain?
Do you think it magically shrinks when a cloud goes in front?
Or is that just glare?

And no, me continually calling you out on your false claims is not harassing you.

Either grow up and start debating, or leave the debate forum.

Grow up. You don't deserve to get an answer. Because this is a open/free forum you can not force me for anything. Are you lawyer or moderator here asking the questions? Who is giving you right to asking the questions? Exactly, I am not. I don't care what you are asking because I don't like you. If you like me, if you give me a value so you worry my answer. But I don't like you so don't care your questions or thougths. Look, this is simple to get. Get it jackinoz?

Impossible on a flat earth, yet here it is



The sun doesn't get smaller and smaller, it disappears behind the horizon.

Because this is a open/free forum you can not force me for anything

That's right, I can't force you to answer.
However you have a choice, either debate, or continue to demonstrate that you don't care about the truth and have no interest in debate.

Now, are you going to debate and address the issues raised by your claims and videos?

If we take your videos to mean what you claim, where the glare represents the actual size of the sun then we need to claim the sun jumps in fronts of mountains as it rises and will shrink if a cloud passes in front of it.
So do you wish to claim that such magic happens, or will you admit that glare is not the actual size of the sun and thus to measure the angular size of the sun you need a filter?

Quote from: wise on May 09, 2019, 05:46:27 AM

Because this is a open/free forum you can not force me for anything

That's right, I can't force you to answer.
However you have a choice, either debate, or continue to demonstrate that you don't care about the truth and have no interest in debate.

Now, are you going to debate and address the issues raised by your claims and videos?

If we take your videos to mean what you claim, where the glare represents the actual size of the sun then we need to claim the sun jumps in fronts of mountains as it rises and will shrink if a cloud passes in front of it.
So do you wish to claim that such magic happens, or will you admit that glare is not the actual size of the sun and thus to measure the angular size of the sun you need a filter?

How childish. Although I said you my answer, whether I'll answer you or I'll not care your thoughts. I told I don't care what is your arguments or thoughts, and you are still insisting for a reply; how pathetic. You are an hopeless case I swear.

@wise

I understand. You may call yourself "professor" and "flat earth scientist", but your mission is not to provide clear answers. You simply want people to accept what you are saying without question. I'm sorry, but I'm not that stupid.

To make your life easier: since you refused to answer my questions, I'll now stop monitoring this question, as I no longer expect any information.

@wise

I understand. You may call yourself "professor" and "flat earth scientist", but your mission is not to provide clear answers. You simply want people to accept what you are saying without question. I'm sorry, but I'm not that stupid.

To make your life easier: since you refused to answer my questions, I'll now stop monitoring this question, as I no longer expect any information.

Nope. You did not understand. I did not want you to accept anything.

I have came here to reply Souleon's question about something else; not for your question. Because you have already insulted flat earthers come and reply your questions before we said anything. You should apologize flat earthers before you ask a question. Because you've two times made disrespecting against Flat earthers, but still waiting for an answer.

There isn't anybody here your toy. pull yourself together.

The "sun does not appear to change it size until just before sunset" - a then only a little in height!
Do I need to say more?

yes

Quote from: rabinoz on May 07, 2019, 09:27:24 PM

The "sun does not appear to change size until just before the sun is about to set" - a then only a little in height!
Do I need to say more? Our kind Flat Earther, Matrix Decode, has said it all!

yes

If you are satisfied with the "short story" it's done and did !
If you want the "long story" read: How does this work « Reply #17 on: August 09, 2018, 06:42:39 PM ».

Impossible on a flat earth, yet here it is



The sun doesn't get smaller and smaller, it disappears behind the horizon.

I don't see a spherical earth rotating into the sun. I see the light of the sun setting into a Flat Earth.

https://wiki.tfes.org/Sunrise_and_Sunset

Quote from: JimmyTheCrab on May 09, 2019, 05:52:24 AM

Impossible on a flat earth, yet here it is



The sun doesn't get smaller and smaller, it disappears behind the horizon.

I don't see a spherical earth rotating into the sun. I see the light of the sun setting into a Flat Earth.

https://wiki.tfes.org/Sunrise_and_Sunset

Your wiki entry might as well just be, "The most direct description of what we observe is that there is night and day on Flat Earth." That's about the depth of your FET explanation for sunrises and sunsets. Well done.

What does "...setting into..." mean?
Where did the sun itself go?
Why after the sun sets this light you speak of is gone until it appears again about 12 hours later suspiciously behind me? Why does it do that on a flat earth everyday? And does it do that for everyone on a flat earth? At the same time?

Quote from: Tom Bishop on May 21, 2019, 07:47:10 AM

Quote from: JimmyTheCrab on May 09, 2019, 05:52:24 AM

Impossible on a flat earth, yet here it is



The sun doesn't get smaller and smaller, it disappears behind the horizon.

I don't see a spherical earth rotating into the sun. I see the light of the sun setting into a Flat Earth.

https://wiki.tfes.org/Sunrise_and_Sunset

Your wiki entry might as well just be, "The most direct description of what we observe is that there is night and day on Flat Earth." That's about the depth of your FET explanation for sunrises and sunsets. Well done.

What does "...setting into..." mean?
Where did the sun itself go?
Why after the sun sets this light you speak of is gone until it appears again about 12 hours later suspiciously behind me? Why does it do that on a flat earth everyday? And does it do that for everyone on a flat earth? At the same time?

I think the question to the flat earther should be " If the earth is flat and the sun is setting into the flat Earth , where does it go and where does it come from for sunrise the following morning .''

Quote from: Tom Bishop on May 21, 2019, 07:47:10 AM

Quote from: JimmyTheCrab on May 09, 2019, 05:52:24 AM

Impossible on a flat earth, yet here it is



The sun doesn't get smaller and smaller, it disappears behind the horizon.

I don't see a spherical earth rotating into the sun. I see the light of the sun setting into a Flat Earth.

https://wiki.tfes.org/Sunrise_and_Sunset

Your wiki entry might as well just be, "The most direct description of what we observe is that there is night and day on Flat Earth." That's about the depth of your FET explanation for sunrises and sunsets. Well done.

What does "...setting into..." mean?
Where did the sun itself go?
Why after the sun sets this light you speak of is gone until it appears again about 12 hours later suspiciously behind me? Why does it do that on a flat earth everyday? And does it do that for everyone on a flat earth? At the same time?

Read the Wiki, it's explained there.

Quote from: JimmyTheCrab on May 09, 2019, 05:52:24 AM

Impossible on a flat earth, yet here it is



The sun doesn't get smaller and smaller, it disappears behind the horizon.

I don't see a spherical earth rotating into the sun. I see the light of the sun setting into a Flat Earth.

https://wiki.tfes.org/Sunrise_and_Sunset

And I see that there is a total lack of integrity involved with trying to debate anybody that claims to believe in the flat earth. 

Quote from: Stash on May 21, 2019, 10:55:27 AM

Quote from: Tom Bishop on May 21, 2019, 07:47:10 AM

Quote from: JimmyTheCrab on May 09, 2019, 05:52:24 AM

Impossible on a flat earth, yet here it is



The sun doesn't get smaller and smaller, it disappears behind the horizon.

I don't see a spherical earth rotating into the sun. I see the light of the sun setting into a Flat Earth.

https://wiki.tfes.org/Sunrise_and_Sunset

Your wiki entry might as well just be, "The most direct description of what we observe is that there is night and day on Flat Earth." That's about the depth of your FET explanation for sunrises and sunsets. Well done.

What does "...setting into..." mean?
Where did the sun itself go?
Why after the sun sets this light you speak of is gone until it appears again about 12 hours later suspiciously behind me? Why does it do that on a flat earth everyday? And does it do that for everyone on a flat earth? At the same time?

Read the Wiki, it's explained there.

Appealing to "Read the Wiki, it's explained there", is essentially giving up and conceding. Well done.

I have read the wiki and just did again. Nothing in there answers the questions I asked:

What does "...setting into..." mean?
Where did the sun itself go?
Why after the sun sets this light you speak of is gone until it appears again about 12 hours later suspiciously behind me? Why does it do that on a flat earth everyday? And does it do that for everyone on a flat earth? At the same time?

Quote from: Stash on May 21, 2019, 10:55:27 AM

Quote from: Tom Bishop on May 21, 2019, 07:47:10 AM

Quote from: JimmyTheCrab on May 09, 2019, 05:52:24 AM

Impossible on a flat earth, yet here it is



The sun doesn't get smaller and smaller, it disappears behind the horizon.

I don't see a spherical earth rotating into the sun. I see the light of the sun setting into a Flat Earth.

https://wiki.tfes.org/Sunrise_and_Sunset

Your wiki entry might as well just be, "The most direct description of what we observe is that there is night and day on Flat Earth." That's about the depth of your FET explanation for sunrises and sunsets. Well done.

What does "...setting into..." mean?
Where did the sun itself go?
Why after the sun sets this light you speak of is gone until it appears again about 12 hours later suspiciously behind me? Why does it do that on a flat earth everyday? And does it do that for everyone on a flat earth? At the same time?

Read the Wiki, it's explained there.

Would it be asking too much to ask you to explain it in your own words ?

I don't see a spherical earth rotating into the sun. I see the light of the sun setting into a Flat Earth.

There is no FE there.
But yes, that is the issue, the sun is going into (or below) Earth, not just running off into the distance.
So while that is compatible with the ancient FE models were the sun went below Earth, it is not compatible with the modern ones where the sun remains above it.

Your wiki article also completely ignores how relative motion works.
I guess that means that when we are in a car travelling along a highway the car is stationary and the ground is moving as we clearly observe the ground moving towards us rather than the car moving.
What we observe is 100% consistent with a rotating RE. What we observe is incompatible with a sun just going off into the distance.

Where is the evidence that the earth is moving? We see the sun's light moving and setting, not the earth.

Please prove your illusions.

Where is the evidence that the earth is moving? We see the sun's light moving and setting, not the earth.

Please prove your illusions.

The proof of Earth's motion is an entirely separate argument. Stop trying to avoid the issues with your model with these distractions.
And no, they aren't illusions, they are facts about reality. Facts which have been established by mountains of evidence beyond any sane doubt.

Again, what we see is relative motion.
When I am sitting in a car or a train or a plane, I don't observe the vehicle moving. Instead I observe Earth moving relative to me.
Does that mean when I am sitting in a car "driving" along the road that the car is actually stationary and instead the Earth is moving towards/under me?
Or do you accept that all that is being observed is relative motion, where Earth is moving relative to me which could be a result of me being stationary while Earth moves, Earth being stationary while I move, or both Earth and myself moving?

Admittedly, a merry go round is a much better analogy.
If I sit on a merry go round as it "moves" I don't observe it moving. Does that mean in fact the merry go round is stationary while Earth rotates around me?

Relative motion is not a difficult concept to understand.

Now how about you address the issue with your model?

If the sun remained above Earth it wouldn't set at all. Instead it would just move off into the distance, potentially disappearing high in the sky when you could no longer see it, such as if the atmosphere obscured the view resulting in the sun fading to a blur, or if it was a spotlight as we move out of the spotlight cone. It would not appear to set as a circle going below the horizon with horizon obscuring this circle.

Now how about you start proving your illusions by explaining how the sun sets on a FE where it remains above Earth?

So again, what we observe is consistent with the ancient FE models and the RE model, where the sun goes below the region of Earth you are on. It is inconsistent with the modern FE models where the sun remains above Earth.

Interesting, but I see no evidence for the Earth's motion as proposed by Copernicus. You are just saying "illusion did it". I certainly have never seen or felt the earth move in any direction other than upwards.

You can find pages for how the light of the sun rises and sets and maintains its size in the Wiki.

Interesting, but I see no evidence for the Earth's motion as proposed by Copernicus. You are just saying "illusion did it". I certainly have never seen or felt the earth move in any direction other than upwards.

The topic is "How is it possible to see the sun rise or set?"
With regard to that it makes no difference whether the sun orbits the earth as in the Geostationary Tychonian System or the earth rotates a great distance from the sun as in the Heliocentric Keplerian System.

The signifant point is the sun's path from our point of view:
    whether it circles above the earth or
    whether it appears to circle from below the earth rise from behind the horizon, then above and finally setting behind the horizon.
If we had no preconceived ideas that second option seems to best describe what we see as in:

Impossible on a flat earth, yet here it is

The sun doesn't get smaller and smaller, it disappears behind the horizon.

You can find pages for how the light of the sun rises and sets and maintains its size in the Wiki.

Yes, we're familiar with those but they are very artificial sounding excuses for what we can easily see if a good solar filter is used to remove the glare.

Magnification of the Sun at Sunset
Q. If the sun is disappearing to perspective, shouldn't it get smaller as it recedes?

A. The sun remains the same size as it recedes into the distance due to a known magnification effect caused by the intense rays of light passing through the strata of the atmosphere.

Look at these screenshots from a video by Flat Earther Matrix Decode.
These are photos of the sun taken through a filter (an arc welder's glass) showing the sun at a number of times of day from 9:30 AM to 7:00 PM on 9/March/2016 in Malaga, Spain.

The following screen shots from his video do an excellent job of proving that the sun size does not change!

Do I need to say more? Our kind Flat Earther, Matrix Decode, has said it all!
The "sun does not appear to change it size until just before sunset" - a then only a little in height!
On the Flat Earth model the apparent size of the sun would vary by a factor of four or so!

Here is the video those were taken from

Flat Earth - The Size Of The Sun, Matrix Decode

I fail to see how a nearby sun can possibly fit in with these photographs.

Solar filters don't remove projections of light. A solar filter functions similar to a pair of sunglasses, in that its purpose is to dim the scene for eye safety. If there is a projection or reflection of light it will not remove it. Try wearing a pair of sunglasses inside of a movie theater sometime.

Solar filters don't remove projections of light.

Solar filters remove the glare caused by the overexposure of the photo.

And if you claim that the sun has "projections" please explain what is the cause of the projection (a lens, mirror or some such thing) and what functions as the object the sun is projected onto, "the screen".

In any case the moon's angular size also says almost he same size, though in this case it varies slightly over a month. See:

The sun is not so easy to photograph without the correct filters, but the moon is quite easy to photograph.

I have taken numerous photos and all show the moon at almost the same size. It must be realised that the apparent size of the moon does change significantly during the month as the moon's orbit is elliptical.

The first photo is a bit of an odd man out as the camera settings were a little different and while it still shown as 1600 mm in the EXIF information, I suspect it might be 1774 mm (the next step).
The following photos show the moon at quite different altitudes from just over 2° to 80°:

(0) Date: May 22, 2016 at 17:43 EAST Moon at Alt 2.3°,  Az 107.5°, size  0.56°

(1) Date: May 24, 2016 19:36 EAST Moon at Alt 6.3°, Az 107.7°,  size  0.52°

(2) Date: May 24, 2016 at 20:16 EAST Moon at Alt 14.5°, Az 103.6°,  size  0.52°

(3) Date: May 24, 2016 at 20:57 EAST Moon at Alt 23.1°, Az  99.6°,  size  0.52°

(4) Date: May 25, 2016 at 06:46 EAST Moon at Alt 26.5°, Az  262.1°,  size  0.50°

(5) Date: May 24, 2016 at 22:16 EAST Moon at Alt 37.8°, Az  92.7°,  size  0.52°

(6)Date: June 21, 2016 at 23:12  EAST Strawberry Moon+1 at Alt 67.1°, Azm 70.8°, size 0.53°

(7) Date: May 19, 2016 at 22:08 EAST Moon at Alt 71.5°, Azm 0.1°,  size  0.52°

(8)Date: June 20, 2016 at 23:38 EAST Strawberry Full Moon - at Alt 80.2°, Azm 23.4°, size  0.52°

I suppose I did not need to show so many photos, but some are completely unable to accept the most solid evidence!

The moon stays (almost) the same size from rising (well 2.3°) to virtually overhead (at an Altitude of 80.2°).

Any explanations as to how this might be possible with the flat earth model of the moon's motion?

There is no sign of the moon appearing far smaller when near the horizon as it would if disappearing "due to perspective".

Interesting, but I see no evidence for the Earth's motion

Again, that isn't the topic of this discussion.
If you would like evidence of it, feel free to start a new thread asking for it.
The only reason I brought it up at all was the dishonesty of your wiki, where it completely ignores how relative motion works.

You can find pages for how the light of the sun rises and sets and maintains its size in the Wiki.

Stop just deflecting.
Don't expect me to do your searching for you.
Provide the answers here.
If you can't explain how the sun appears to rise and set on a FE, then just don't bother commenting at all as you are just wasting everyone's time.