The Flat Earth Society

Flat Earth Discussion Boards => Flat Earth Debate => Topic started by: JRoweSkeptic on March 28, 2015, 04:12:50 PM

Title: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on March 28, 2015, 04:12:50 PM
in an effort to keep all discussion and refinement of the theory in one place, rather than the multiple threads covering the forums, please direct any questions you have about dual earth theory to this post.

if you are unfamiliar with the basic model:
http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=63027.msg1669258#msg1669258 (http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=63027.msg1669258#msg1669258)
read from there, onwards. it outlines the model itself, and refinements are made later on. a later post also explains the nature of aether in simple detail.

if something has already been answered either in this thread, or the original, i will ignore you as i am tired of having to repeat myself if you add nothing new. further, if i have you blocked, i will read your posts for the purposes of this thread, but i will hold you to this rule far more strictly.

ask away.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Weatherwax on March 28, 2015, 04:15:22 PM
Why doesn't the night sky suddenly change when someone crosses the equator?
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: LogicalKiller on March 28, 2015, 04:16:28 PM
in an effort to keep all discussion and refinement of the theory in one place, rather than the multiple threads covering the forums, please direct any questions you have about dual earth theory to this post.

if you are unfamiliar with the basic model:
http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=63027.msg1669258#msg1669258 (http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=63027.msg1669258#msg1669258)
read from there, onwards. it outlines the model itself, and refinements are made later on. a later post also explains the nature of aether in simple detail.

if something has already been answered either in this thread, or the original, i will ignore you as i am tired of having to repeat myself if you add nothing new. further, if i have you blocked, i will read your posts for the purposes of this thread, but i will hold you to this rule far more strictly.

ask away.

Do you have other evidences for aetheric teleportation and aether itself excluding "observational"?
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on March 28, 2015, 04:17:36 PM
Why doesn't the night sky suddenly change when someone crosses the equator?

light crosses the equator. i have just added a diagram to explain this to the model thread.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on March 28, 2015, 04:19:00 PM
in an effort to keep all discussion and refinement of the theory in one place, rather than the multiple threads covering the forums, please direct any questions you have about dual earth theory to this post.

if you are unfamiliar with the basic model:
http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=63027.msg1669258#msg1669258 (https://server1.kproxy.com/servlet/redirect.srv/slxv/shdpupchxkjtyowiddhu/szab/p1/forum/index.php?topic=63027.msg1669258#msg1669258)
read from there, onwards. it outlines the model itself, and refinements are made later on. a later post also explains the nature of aether in simple detail.

if something has already been answered either in this thread, or the original, i will ignore you as i am tired of having to repeat myself if you add nothing new. further, if i have you blocked, i will read your posts for the purposes of this thread, but i will hold you to this rule far more strictly.

ask away.

Do you have other evidences for aetheric teleportation and aether itself excluding "observational"?

observational evidence is all that exists. if you can't learn from observation and deduction, how can you know anything?
i also suggest you read the thread to see my definition of aether. even you must concede it exists. does space exist?
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: LogicalKiller on March 28, 2015, 04:23:22 PM
in an effort to keep all discussion and refinement of the theory in one place, rather than the multiple threads covering the forums, please direct any questions you have about dual earth theory to this post.

if you are unfamiliar with the basic model:
http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=63027.msg1669258#msg1669258 (https://server1.kproxy.com/servlet/redirect.srv/slxv/shdpupchxkjtyowiddhu/szab/p1/forum/index.php?topic=63027.msg1669258#msg1669258)
read from there, onwards. it outlines the model itself, and refinements are made later on. a later post also explains the nature of aether in simple detail.

if something has already been answered either in this thread, or the original, i will ignore you as i am tired of having to repeat myself if you add nothing new. further, if i have you blocked, i will read your posts for the purposes of this thread, but i will hold you to this rule far more strictly.

ask away.

Do you have other evidences for aetheric teleportation and aether itself excluding "observational"?

observational evidence is all that exists. if you can't learn from observation and deduction, how can you know anything?
i also suggest you read the thread to see my definition of aether. even you must concede it exists. does space exist?

How can you observe aether if (as you said) it can't be seen?
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on March 28, 2015, 04:25:27 PM
in an effort to keep all discussion and refinement of the theory in one place, rather than the multiple threads covering the forums, please direct any questions you have about dual earth theory to this post.

if you are unfamiliar with the basic model:
http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=63027.msg1669258#msg1669258 (https://server1.kproxy.com/servlet/redirect.srv/slxv/shdpupchxkjtyowiddhu/szab/p1/forum/index.php?topic=63027.msg1669258#msg1669258)
read from there, onwards. it outlines the model itself, and refinements are made later on. a later post also explains the nature of aether in simple detail.

if something has already been answered either in this thread, or the original, i will ignore you as i am tired of having to repeat myself if you add nothing new. further, if i have you blocked, i will read your posts for the purposes of this thread, but i will hold you to this rule far more strictly.

ask away.

Do you have other evidences for aetheric teleportation and aether itself excluding "observational"?

observational evidence is all that exists. if you can't learn from observation and deduction, how can you know anything?
i also suggest you read the thread to see my definition of aether. even you must concede it exists. does space exist?

How can you observe aether if (as you said) it can't be seen?

we observe consequences. that's all we ever observe, even sight is a consequence of how something affects light.
aether is space, so it can't be seen, but clearly its consequences have effects.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Vauxhall on March 28, 2015, 04:28:32 PM
This isn't really a quesiton, just a general comment.

Your work on Dual Earth Theory is extremely impressive, and I encourage you to keep up the research and continue to expand upon it because I think you have something really groundbreaking here. DET is probably the most well-developed Earth theory on this forum, including RET. Sure, some of it is based on observational evidence (which isn't a bad thing) which will keep RE'er skeptical, but I think DET explains more than the generic Flat Earth Model and even RET.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: LogicalKiller on March 28, 2015, 04:28:50 PM
in an effort to keep all discussion and refinement of the theory in one place, rather than the multiple threads covering the forums, please direct any questions you have about dual earth theory to this post.

if you are unfamiliar with the basic model:
http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=63027.msg1669258#msg1669258 (https://server1.kproxy.com/servlet/redirect.srv/slxv/shdpupchxkjtyowiddhu/szab/p1/forum/index.php?topic=63027.msg1669258#msg1669258)
read from there, onwards. it outlines the model itself, and refinements are made later on. a later post also explains the nature of aether in simple detail.

if something has already been answered either in this thread, or the original, i will ignore you as i am tired of having to repeat myself if you add nothing new. further, if i have you blocked, i will read your posts for the purposes of this thread, but i will hold you to this rule far more strictly.

ask away.

Do you have other evidences for aetheric teleportation and aether itself excluding "observational"?

observational evidence is all that exists. if you can't learn from observation and deduction, how can you know anything?
i also suggest you read the thread to see my definition of aether. even you must concede it exists. does space exist?

How can you observe aether if (as you said) it can't be seen?

we observe consequences. that's all we ever observe, even sight is a consequence of how something affects light.
aether is space, so it can't be seen, but clearly its consequences have effects.

Aether is space? How do you know that? And - I thought - aether is something building space, not something being space itself.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on March 28, 2015, 04:32:23 PM
in an effort to keep all discussion and refinement of the theory in one place, rather than the multiple threads covering the forums, please direct any questions you have about dual earth theory to this post.

if you are unfamiliar with the basic model:
http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=63027.msg1669258#msg1669258 (https://server1.kproxy.com/servlet/redirect.srv/slxv/shdpupchxkjtyowiddhu/szab/p1/forum/index.php?topic=63027.msg1669258#msg1669258)
read from there, onwards. it outlines the model itself, and refinements are made later on. a later post also explains the nature of aether in simple detail.

if something has already been answered either in this thread, or the original, i will ignore you as i am tired of having to repeat myself if you add nothing new. further, if i have you blocked, i will read your posts for the purposes of this thread, but i will hold you to this rule far more strictly.

ask away.

Do you have other evidences for aetheric teleportation and aether itself excluding "observational"?

observational evidence is all that exists. if you can't learn from observation and deduction, how can you know anything?
i also suggest you read the thread to see my definition of aether. even you must concede it exists. does space exist?

How can you observe aether if (as you said) it can't be seen?

we observe consequences. that's all we ever observe, even sight is a consequence of how something affects light.
aether is space, so it can't be seen, but clearly its consequences have effects.

Aether is space? How do you know that? And - I thought - aether is something building space, not something being space itself.

what do you mean how do i know that? space exists, i call it aether so the ties with the more well-known flat earth theory are clearer. it is responsible for much of the same things (all of which make far more sense when you observe the role of aether can be filled by space).
space is the sum of its building blocks, the shorthand of calling it space works fine. space is composed of aether, so where there is more aether, there is more space. treating the two as the same makes the ideas clearer, for all but the most technical of issues.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: LogicalKiller on March 28, 2015, 04:37:16 PM
in an effort to keep all discussion and refinement of the theory in one place, rather than the multiple threads covering the forums, please direct any questions you have about dual earth theory to this post.

if you are unfamiliar with the basic model:
http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=63027.msg1669258#msg1669258 (https://server1.kproxy.com/servlet/redirect.srv/slxv/shdpupchxkjtyowiddhu/szab/p1/forum/index.php?topic=63027.msg1669258#msg1669258)
read from there, onwards. it outlines the model itself, and refinements are made later on. a later post also explains the nature of aether in simple detail.

if something has already been answered either in this thread, or the original, i will ignore you as i am tired of having to repeat myself if you add nothing new. further, if i have you blocked, i will read your posts for the purposes of this thread, but i will hold you to this rule far more strictly.

ask away.

Do you have other evidences for aetheric teleportation and aether itself excluding "observational"?

observational evidence is all that exists. if you can't learn from observation and deduction, how can you know anything?
i also suggest you read the thread to see my definition of aether. even you must concede it exists. does space exist?

How can you observe aether if (as you said) it can't be seen?

we observe consequences. that's all we ever observe, even sight is a consequence of how something affects light.
aether is space, so it can't be seen, but clearly its consequences have effects.

Aether is space? How do you know that? And - I thought - aether is something building space, not something being space itself.

what do you mean how do i know that? space exists, i call it aether so the ties with the more well-known flat earth theory are clearer. it is responsible for much of the same things (all of which make far more sense when you observe the role of aether can be filled by space).
space is the sum of its building blocks, the shorthand of calling it space works fine. space is composed of aether, so where there is more aether, there is more space. treating the two as the same makes the ideas clearer, for all but the most technical of issues.

How exactly do you know the aether is space and not something different? And yeah, I read a few posts of some users like Flat Brainer and he posted there a nice thing that space is just an empty place. I think the problem is your thinking - you think that space must be build of something, when it can not be.
And - why do you use passing through an equator as an evidence for teleportation? For me it's evidence for magical fairies which carry you 1 meter ahead.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on March 28, 2015, 04:41:37 PM
in an effort to keep all discussion and refinement of the theory in one place, rather than the multiple threads covering the forums, please direct any questions you have about dual earth theory to this post.

if you are unfamiliar with the basic model:
http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=63027.msg1669258#msg1669258 (https://server1.kproxy.com/servlet/redirect.srv/slxv/shdpupchxkjtyowiddhu/szab/p1/forum/index.php?topic=63027.msg1669258#msg1669258)
read from there, onwards. it outlines the model itself, and refinements are made later on. a later post also explains the nature of aether in simple detail.

if something has already been answered either in this thread, or the original, i will ignore you as i am tired of having to repeat myself if you add nothing new. further, if i have you blocked, i will read your posts for the purposes of this thread, but i will hold you to this rule far more strictly.

ask away.

Do you have other evidences for aetheric teleportation and aether itself excluding "observational"?

observational evidence is all that exists. if you can't learn from observation and deduction, how can you know anything?
i also suggest you read the thread to see my definition of aether. even you must concede it exists. does space exist?

How can you observe aether if (as you said) it can't be seen?

we observe consequences. that's all we ever observe, even sight is a consequence of how something affects light.
aether is space, so it can't be seen, but clearly its consequences have effects.

Aether is space? How do you know that? And - I thought - aether is something building space, not something being space itself.

what do you mean how do i know that? space exists, i call it aether so the ties with the more well-known flat earth theory are clearer. it is responsible for much of the same things (all of which make far more sense when you observe the role of aether can be filled by space).
space is the sum of its building blocks, the shorthand of calling it space works fine. space is composed of aether, so where there is more aether, there is more space. treating the two as the same makes the ideas clearer, for all but the most technical of issues.

How exactly do you know the aether is space and not something different? And yeah, I read a few posts of some users like Flat Brainer and he posted there a nice thing that space is just an empty place. I think the problem is your thinking - you think that space must be build of something, when it can not be.
And - why do you use passing through an equator as an evidence for teleportation? For me it's evidence for magical fairies which carry you 1 meter ahead.

i know that because i define space to be aether. they aren't two separate things, it's not a matter of how i know they're the same.
everything has to be made of something. surely that's clear? if there is a difference between space and non-space, then there must be some substance to space. space exists. all physicists agree space is made up of some spacetime, if you take their word.
the equator is evidence that there is a way we can cross the earth. i know the earth is not round for several reasons discussed before, which i have no desire to go into yet again here, i draw conclusions from what can be seen of the world, and what is known, after that. given that dual earth theory is the simplest model which accounts for all we see, with fewest assumptions, that provides a mark in favor of aetheric transmission at the equator.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: LogicalKiller on March 28, 2015, 04:47:37 PM
in an effort to keep all discussion and refinement of the theory in one place, rather than the multiple threads covering the forums, please direct any questions you have about dual earth theory to this post.

if you are unfamiliar with the basic model:
http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=63027.msg1669258#msg1669258 (https://server1.kproxy.com/servlet/redirect.srv/slxv/shdpupchxkjtyowiddhu/szab/p1/forum/index.php?topic=63027.msg1669258#msg1669258)
read from there, onwards. it outlines the model itself, and refinements are made later on. a later post also explains the nature of aether in simple detail.

if something has already been answered either in this thread, or the original, i will ignore you as i am tired of having to repeat myself if you add nothing new. further, if i have you blocked, i will read your posts for the purposes of this thread, but i will hold you to this rule far more strictly.

ask away.

Do you have other evidences for aetheric teleportation and aether itself excluding "observational"?

observational evidence is all that exists. if you can't learn from observation and deduction, how can you know anything?
i also suggest you read the thread to see my definition of aether. even you must concede it exists. does space exist?

How can you observe aether if (as you said) it can't be seen?

we observe consequences. that's all we ever observe, even sight is a consequence of how something affects light.
aether is space, so it can't be seen, but clearly its consequences have effects.

Aether is space? How do you know that? And - I thought - aether is something building space, not something being space itself.

what do you mean how do i know that? space exists, i call it aether so the ties with the more well-known flat earth theory are clearer. it is responsible for much of the same things (all of which make far more sense when you observe the role of aether can be filled by space).
space is the sum of its building blocks, the shorthand of calling it space works fine. space is composed of aether, so where there is more aether, there is more space. treating the two as the same makes the ideas clearer, for all but the most technical of issues.

How exactly do you know the aether is space and not something different? And yeah, I read a few posts of some users like Flat Brainer and he posted there a nice thing that space is just an empty place. I think the problem is your thinking - you think that space must be build of something, when it can not be.
And - why do you use passing through an equator as an evidence for teleportation? For me it's evidence for magical fairies which carry you 1 meter ahead.

i know that because i define space to be aether. they aren't two separate things, it's not a matter of how i know they're the same.
everything has to be made of something. surely that's clear? if there is a difference between space and non-space, then there must be some substance to space. space exists. all physicists agree space is made up of some spacetime, if you take their word.
the equator is evidence that there is a way we can cross the earth. i know the earth is not round for several reasons discussed before, which i have no desire to go into yet again here, i draw conclusions from what can be seen of the world, and what is known, after that. given that dual earth theory is the simplest model which accounts for all we see, with fewest assumptions, that provides a mark in favor of aetheric transmission at the equator.

Space is built of time, isn't that enough for you? Why?
And a personal question - what's the biggest evidence for flat Earth world for ya?
And - maybe I wasn't there - what about horizon problem?
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on March 28, 2015, 04:51:52 PM
in an effort to keep all discussion and refinement of the theory in one place, rather than the multiple threads covering the forums, please direct any questions you have about dual earth theory to this post.

if you are unfamiliar with the basic model:
http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=63027.msg1669258#msg1669258 (https://server1.kproxy.com/servlet/redirect.srv/slxv/shdpupchxkjtyowiddhu/szab/p1/forum/index.php?topic=63027.msg1669258#msg1669258)
read from there, onwards. it outlines the model itself, and refinements are made later on. a later post also explains the nature of aether in simple detail.

if something has already been answered either in this thread, or the original, i will ignore you as i am tired of having to repeat myself if you add nothing new. further, if i have you blocked, i will read your posts for the purposes of this thread, but i will hold you to this rule far more strictly.

ask away.

Do you have other evidences for aetheric teleportation and aether itself excluding "observational"?

observational evidence is all that exists. if you can't learn from observation and deduction, how can you know anything?
i also suggest you read the thread to see my definition of aether. even you must concede it exists. does space exist?

How can you observe aether if (as you said) it can't be seen?

we observe consequences. that's all we ever observe, even sight is a consequence of how something affects light.
aether is space, so it can't be seen, but clearly its consequences have effects.

Aether is space? How do you know that? And - I thought - aether is something building space, not something being space itself.

what do you mean how do i know that? space exists, i call it aether so the ties with the more well-known flat earth theory are clearer. it is responsible for much of the same things (all of which make far more sense when you observe the role of aether can be filled by space).
space is the sum of its building blocks, the shorthand of calling it space works fine. space is composed of aether, so where there is more aether, there is more space. treating the two as the same makes the ideas clearer, for all but the most technical of issues.

How exactly do you know the aether is space and not something different? And yeah, I read a few posts of some users like Flat Brainer and he posted there a nice thing that space is just an empty place. I think the problem is your thinking - you think that space must be build of something, when it can not be.
And - why do you use passing through an equator as an evidence for teleportation? For me it's evidence for magical fairies which carry you 1 meter ahead.

i know that because i define space to be aether. they aren't two separate things, it's not a matter of how i know they're the same.
everything has to be made of something. surely that's clear? if there is a difference between space and non-space, then there must be some substance to space. space exists. all physicists agree space is made up of some spacetime, if you take their word.
the equator is evidence that there is a way we can cross the earth. i know the earth is not round for several reasons discussed before, which i have no desire to go into yet again here, i draw conclusions from what can be seen of the world, and what is known, after that. given that dual earth theory is the simplest model which accounts for all we see, with fewest assumptions, that provides a mark in favor of aetheric transmission at the equator.

Space is built of time, isn't that enough for you? Why?
And a personal question - what's the biggest evidence for flat Earth world for ya?
And - maybe I wasn't there - what about horizon problem?

you seem to be misunderstanding what i'm saying. i am not saying some brand new substance exists and just happens to create space. i am saying what we call space is made up of something, and that something i name aether. it doesn't matter if it's time or fairy dust, that is what i'm calling it.
there are many pieces of evidence for a flat earth. occam's razor renders dual earth theory preferable, for one. then there is the impossibility with a round earth forming, and how many elements contradict observation.
the horizon problem is one of the very first flat earth arguments to be debunked, since rowbotham. the usual response holds.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: LogicalKiller on March 28, 2015, 05:07:17 PM
in an effort to keep all discussion and refinement of the theory in one place, rather than the multiple threads covering the forums, please direct any questions you have about dual earth theory to this post.

if you are unfamiliar with the basic model:
http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=63027.msg1669258#msg1669258 (https://server1.kproxy.com/servlet/redirect.srv/slxv/shdpupchxkjtyowiddhu/szab/p1/forum/index.php?topic=63027.msg1669258#msg1669258)
read from there, onwards. it outlines the model itself, and refinements are made later on. a later post also explains the nature of aether in simple detail.

if something has already been answered either in this thread, or the original, i will ignore you as i am tired of having to repeat myself if you add nothing new. further, if i have you blocked, i will read your posts for the purposes of this thread, but i will hold you to this rule far more strictly.

ask away.

Do you have other evidences for aetheric teleportation and aether itself excluding "observational"?

observational evidence is all that exists. if you can't learn from observation and deduction, how can you know anything?
i also suggest you read the thread to see my definition of aether. even you must concede it exists. does space exist?

How can you observe aether if (as you said) it can't be seen?

we observe consequences. that's all we ever observe, even sight is a consequence of how something affects light.
aether is space, so it can't be seen, but clearly its consequences have effects.

Aether is space? How do you know that? And - I thought - aether is something building space, not something being space itself.

what do you mean how do i know that? space exists, i call it aether so the ties with the more well-known flat earth theory are clearer. it is responsible for much of the same things (all of which make far more sense when you observe the role of aether can be filled by space).
space is the sum of its building blocks, the shorthand of calling it space works fine. space is composed of aether, so where there is more aether, there is more space. treating the two as the same makes the ideas clearer, for all but the most technical of issues.

How exactly do you know the aether is space and not something different? And yeah, I read a few posts of some users like Flat Brainer and he posted there a nice thing that space is just an empty place. I think the problem is your thinking - you think that space must be build of something, when it can not be.
And - why do you use passing through an equator as an evidence for teleportation? For me it's evidence for magical fairies which carry you 1 meter ahead.

i know that because i define space to be aether. they aren't two separate things, it's not a matter of how i know they're the same.
everything has to be made of something. surely that's clear? if there is a difference between space and non-space, then there must be some substance to space. space exists. all physicists agree space is made up of some spacetime, if you take their word.
the equator is evidence that there is a way we can cross the earth. i know the earth is not round for several reasons discussed before, which i have no desire to go into yet again here, i draw conclusions from what can be seen of the world, and what is known, after that. given that dual earth theory is the simplest model which accounts for all we see, with fewest assumptions, that provides a mark in favor of aetheric transmission at the equator.

Space is built of time, isn't that enough for you? Why?
And a personal question - what's the biggest evidence for flat Earth world for ya?
And - maybe I wasn't there - what about horizon problem?

you seem to be misunderstanding what i'm saying. i am not saying some brand new substance exists and just happens to create space. i am saying what we call space is made up of something, and that something i name aether. it doesn't matter if it's time or fairy dust, that is what i'm calling it.
there are many pieces of evidence for a flat earth. occam's razor renders dual earth theory preferable, for one. then there is the impossibility with a round earth forming, and how many elements contradict observation.
the horizon problem is one of the very first flat earth arguments to be debunked, since rowbotham. the usual response holds.

I said loud and clear - why do you think it's not enough that space is made up of time, so you had to create aether?
Occam's razor renders everything preferable if it's simple. When you think of dual flat Earth and go deeper and deeper into aetheric stuff, you realize it's not that simple. Impossiblity with round Earth forming? Rather impossibility with perfect-disc of two hemispheres forming. If you watch vomit-comet flights you can see that in cause of gravity everything in time forms into a spherical-like shape. For example, watch water bubbles in vomit comet.
Could you please what's the usual response? Like a usual response in one post, not a link to topic with several posts making one response. Just one, transparent post.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Dog on March 28, 2015, 09:42:28 PM
Why do you believe this? Yes it makes logical sense, but it doesn't make rational sense.
We could.....

A: be living on a flat disc (why is it flat?), with "aether" that has tons of convenient properties being given to it each day to fill in the gaps, a sun that revolves around the rim (what makes the sun move in a circle?), whirlpools of aether being caused by who knows what, terrestrial "currents" to account for the equator, people's minds being blank temporarily, etc.

B: Live on a sphere because gravity, which is just a force.

No mind wipes, no magical substances, no fairies. Just the scientific method (hypotheses, EXPERIMENTS, conclusions). Better yet, the S.M. has a 4th component, repeatability. As decades and decades go by, random people from all around the world, continue to test the effects of gravity and conclude the same thing every time, yep it exists.

If you're so sure you can prove gravity doesn't exist, then you should be running for the newspapers and should have a Nobel prize by the end of the year for proving thousands of actual scientists wrong.

You could be a millionaire, what are you waiting for?
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: ausGeoff on March 29, 2015, 12:21:24 AM
Your work on Dual Earth Theory is extremely impressive...

There is no "dual earth theory" in existence.  You won't find it in any scientific text books, nor will you find one scientist who'd even consider it for a nanosecond.  It's nothing more than a nonsensical idea dreamed up by someone who has absolutely zero knowledge of astrophysics and/or geophysics—or much else for that matter.  And it's certainly not "impressive" LOL.  It reads more like a preliminary script for a comedy sketch on SNL based around Star Trek.

Quote
... and I encourage you to keep up the research and continue to expand upon it because I think you have something really groundbreaking here.

There is and has been no "research" done to keep up or continue.  If you truly think this whack job has researched his notions, then ask him to cite his research parameters, results, and his papers on the topic.  He won't be able to I can guarantee;  there are none.  His purported "research" is nothing more than ad hoc smoke and mirrors.  And the only "groundbreaking" he's accomplished is to surpass the idiocy of even the most absurd notions of any of the flat earthers here.
 
Quote
DET is probably the most well-developed Earth theory on this forum, including RET.

Uh... again; it's not a "theory", and it's certainly not "well-developed" unless you have an IQ equalling the room temperature.  If you truly think that this dual earth nonsense is more likely than the current scientific status quo, then you too are sadly delusional Vauxhall.

Quote
Sure, some of it is based on observational evidence (which isn't a bad thing) which will keep RE'er skeptical, but I think DET explains more than the generic Flat Earth Model and even RET.

Nope;  none of this dual earth notion is based on any sort of "observation".  Thus far the guy hasn't posted one single piece of observational "evidence".  That's simply because one cannot observe something that doesn't exist in actuality.  We can easily observe and replicate the phenomenon we know as gravity, but nobody can—or ever will of course—be able to observe and replicate the phenomenon fancifully named aether.

You're quite right of course that anyone of a scientific bent will be "skeptical" but that's probably understating the obvious LOL.  You should be pushing JRoweSceptimatic for viable, material, empirical evidence for his claims, rather than just blindly accepting the pseudo-scientific daydreams he's posting here.  He's been asked numerous times on these forums for evidence supporting his claims, but so far has not been forthcoming in any way at all.  Which should prompt the question; why not?

As I said elsewhere, I'm guessing JRoweSceptimatic's one of these all too common cyberspace narcissists who revel in all the attention and disruption they cause to whichever forums they infest.  If people stop responding to their puerile drivel for long enough, then—like little kids—they eventually get bored and go away.

I note too that he lists in his signature the people he's got on his ignore list.  These are the people who've been smart enough to beat him at his own game, and narcissists hate being seen as losers.  I've shot him down far too often, and if he thinks by merely ignoring me, it's going to stop me—and others here—laughing at all the Looney Tunes stuff he posts here, then I've got some good news and... I've got some bad news for him.

    ;D
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: herewegoround on March 29, 2015, 02:34:13 AM
So when you reach the equator you are magically transported to the other side but you don't notice this happening. To a traveler it's as if they were on a continuous journey over the surface of a sphere. It's one of those "the evidence suggests the Earth is round but there are peculiar possesses at work" arguments. Is there one scrap of evidence that something peculiar happens at the equator? The problem with this idea is that it's not falsifiable. It has been designed not to be. It is malleable enough to withstand any evidence because it can magically do anything. It's not a theory.

When Newton proposed gravity he didn't just say, "There is this thing called gravity and it can make apples fall to the ground and make the moon go round the Earth". He postulated a simple rule that could explain incredibly complex things with an astonishing degree of mathematical accuracy. The theory didn't explain why the simple rule is right but that's how theories work. Physicists try to explain complexity with simplicity. You are trying to explain complexity with complexity. Do you have any simple rules that explain the fundamental processes of the aether which can be applied to show how it can do very complicated things? Unless you do this isn't science and it will never be taken seriously.


I've brought this up before and you always claim to have answered it but I can never find your supposed answer. If the sun is moving round the edge of the disc, then for most of the world the sun would never get above the horizon. I live about 56 degrees North and the sun can reach an angle of elevation of 60 degrees in the summer. If the Earth is a flat disc with the sun moving around the edge this wouldn't be possible.

Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on March 29, 2015, 03:40:23 AM
ok, so there are three relevant questions, it seems.
1. space and aether.
2. the simplicity of the theory vs round earth theory
3. the sun on the horizon.

to ausgeoff, i would also suggest he stop putting words in my mouth. you are blocked because you do not acknowledge a post that is written to you. you make an argument, it gets refuted, and you don't even address a word of it, you just repeat yourself. surely, if the rebuttals were so false, you could take the time to actually say something about them rather than blindly copy and paste the same text?
you've even jumped into this thread with no question, just a slew of personal attacks. i don't care about being laughed at, i care about not wasting my time with explaining things to people who are not interested in discussion. hence this thread. if you have nothing to add being repeating points that have already been addressed and discarded, i will not engage. you have provided a perfect example of that, and i'm sure even round earthers can see just how bad the majority of your posts are. i've seen, before, that several of your own even have you blocked.

onto the questions.

1. i am not saying that there is a separate substance called aether which composes space, i am saying the two are the same thing. i could just use the word space, i just choose not to because people would get too concerned over word choice then. logicalkiller's "so you had to create aether?" provides a clear case of this misunderstanding. i am not creating anything, i am saying space exists. i call its building block 'aether'. i am saying nothing whatsoever about this building block, beyond the properties of space itself. to herewegoaround, this is where the properties of aether come from. it has those of space, as well as the universal tendency to move from areas of high concentration, to areas of low. there are no baseless assumptions involved.

2. dual earth theory is simpler for the reasons stated above. the only entity required to make it work, which you do not accept, is aether: however, my aether is no more the space. space itself holds all the properties necessary. for example, aetheric transmission is (as pointed out in the model thread, has anyone taken the time to read that as i requested?) a matter of crossing space. when space is thin, distance stops existing, so when you walk through thin space, you end up somewhere immediately which would take you longer to get to if you went the long way, through thicker (regular) space.
it isn't a matter of disproving gravity. gravity is one (incomplete) explanation for observations, with no mechanism given for how it works. aether is simply another, which doesn't contain gaping holes in, for example, the basic process by which it works: and it relies only on that which we know to exist. that is, space, and the tendency to go from high pressure to low. by any definition, that is simpler. it is not complex at all, for those who take the time to read what i am proposing rather than putting words in my mouth.

3. the initial dual earth theory featured the sun going around the edge of the earth. this is no longer the case, as reading the thread i referred you to says quite clearly, if you did indeed read it.

again, please can you read the model thread. i didn't link to it for fun.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Weatherwax on March 29, 2015, 04:58:57 AM
If I stand exactly on the equator, is half my brain on one side of the earth, and the other on the other? Surely this can't be good for you?
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: ausGeoff on March 29, 2015, 05:35:00 AM
I don't care about being laughed at...

Just as well.  ;D
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: FalseProphet on March 29, 2015, 05:55:08 AM
If I stand exactly on the equator, is half my brain on one side of the earth, and the other on the other? Surely this can't be good for you?

I do that all the time, and I can tell you, it doesn't effect the brain in any way! If it would, how could I have discovered that earth is a huge butterfly? - Oh shit it's happening again...
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: LogicalKiller on March 29, 2015, 06:21:53 AM
I still remember this guy saying the Earth is a huge Moebius strip and he was the most funny, funnier than this cone-guy.

FE - not funny, just stupid.
Dual FE - not funny, just irrationally stupid.
Earth is a flat-butterfly - that's kinda funny but still stupid.
Earth is a cone - far the most funny idea and a total troll-nonsense.
Earth is a Moebius strip - the most idiotic and the most funny idea in its stupidness.

So yeah, JRowe, WHY DON'T YOU BELIEVE THE EARTH IS A MOEBIUS STRIP, HUH?!
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on March 29, 2015, 06:50:00 AM
If I stand exactly on the equator, is half my brain on one side of the earth, and the other on the other? Surely this can't be good for you?

why wouldn't it be? the transmission at the equator is simply due to thin space. when you're partway over, there's technically still no distance between the halves of your brain.


as for the rest of you, please stop polluting the thread. this is meant to be a place where people can ask and learn about dual earth theory rather than doing as you are, and rejecting it out of hand. if you have a question which you believe exposes a hole, ask it, don't just act smug and superior when you've lost an argument.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: LogicalKiller on March 29, 2015, 06:53:08 AM
If I stand exactly on the equator, is half my brain on one side of the earth, and the other on the other? Surely this can't be good for you?

why wouldn't it be? the transmission at the equator is simply due to thin space. when you're partway over, there's technically still no distance between the halves of your brain.


as for the rest of you, please stop polluting the thread. this is meant to be a place where people can ask and learn about dual earth theory rather than doing as you are, and rejecting it out of hand. if you have a question which you believe exposes a hole, ask it, don't just act smug and superior when you've lost an argument.

Do you have an evidence that Earth is flat? Because from what I know the only your evidence is that we see the Earth is flat, but come on, that was debunked.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on March 29, 2015, 06:56:19 AM
If I stand exactly on the equator, is half my brain on one side of the earth, and the other on the other? Surely this can't be good for you?

why wouldn't it be? the transmission at the equator is simply due to thin space. when you're partway over, there's technically still no distance between the halves of your brain.


as for the rest of you, please stop polluting the thread. this is meant to be a place where people can ask and learn about dual earth theory rather than doing as you are, and rejecting it out of hand. if you have a question which you believe exposes a hole, ask it, don't just act smug and superior when you've lost an argument.

Do you have an evidence that Earth is flat? Because from what I know the only your evidence is that we see the Earth is flat, but come on, that was debunked.

i have offered several pieces of evidence in this thread alone, in posts directed to you no less, and 'because we see the earth is flat' was not one of them.
please read the thread. i am writing to try and educate, it's pointless if you're going to ignore it.

i also suggest you educate yourself on observation, deduction, and occam's razor, in addition to the points i have made.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: LogicalKiller on March 29, 2015, 07:01:10 AM
If I stand exactly on the equator, is half my brain on one side of the earth, and the other on the other? Surely this can't be good for you?

why wouldn't it be? the transmission at the equator is simply due to thin space. when you're partway over, there's technically still no distance between the halves of your brain.


as for the rest of you, please stop polluting the thread. this is meant to be a place where people can ask and learn about dual earth theory rather than doing as you are, and rejecting it out of hand. if you have a question which you believe exposes a hole, ask it, don't just act smug and superior when you've lost an argument.

Do you have an evidence that Earth is flat? Because from what I know the only your evidence is that we see the Earth is flat, but come on, that was debunked.

i have offered several pieces of evidence in this thread alone, in posts directed to you no less, and 'because we see the earth is flat' was not one of them.
please read the thread. i am writing to try and educate, it's pointless if you're going to ignore it.

i also suggest you educate yourself on observation, deduction, and occam's razor, in addition to the points i have made.

I sometimes see the Earth is round and I know it's round by observation, deduction and occam's razor. Do you have eyes? Look out the window! Earth is round!

BTW: You know there's a company like Virgin Galactic?
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on March 29, 2015, 07:04:07 AM
If I stand exactly on the equator, is half my brain on one side of the earth, and the other on the other? Surely this can't be good for you?

why wouldn't it be? the transmission at the equator is simply due to thin space. when you're partway over, there's technically still no distance between the halves of your brain.


as for the rest of you, please stop polluting the thread. this is meant to be a place where people can ask and learn about dual earth theory rather than doing as you are, and rejecting it out of hand. if you have a question which you believe exposes a hole, ask it, don't just act smug and superior when you've lost an argument.

Do you have an evidence that Earth is flat? Because from what I know the only your evidence is that we see the Earth is flat, but come on, that was debunked.

i have offered several pieces of evidence in this thread alone, in posts directed to you no less, and 'because we see the earth is flat' was not one of them.
please read the thread. i am writing to try and educate, it's pointless if you're going to ignore it.

i also suggest you educate yourself on observation, deduction, and occam's razor, in addition to the points i have made.

I sometimes see the Earth is round and I know it's round by observation, deduction and occam's razor. Do you have eyes? Look out the window! Earth is round!

BTW: You know there's a company like Virgin Galactic?

are you able to do anything other than mount straw men?
don't change the topic. supposed space tourism is a topic for another thread. this one is exclusively about dual earth theory.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: LogicalKiller on March 29, 2015, 07:11:15 AM
If I stand exactly on the equator, is half my brain on one side of the earth, and the other on the other? Surely this can't be good for you?

why wouldn't it be? the transmission at the equator is simply due to thin space. when you're partway over, there's technically still no distance between the halves of your brain.


as for the rest of you, please stop polluting the thread. this is meant to be a place where people can ask and learn about dual earth theory rather than doing as you are, and rejecting it out of hand. if you have a question which you believe exposes a hole, ask it, don't just act smug and superior when you've lost an argument.

Do you have an evidence that Earth is flat? Because from what I know the only your evidence is that we see the Earth is flat, but come on, that was debunked.

i have offered several pieces of evidence in this thread alone, in posts directed to you no less, and 'because we see the earth is flat' was not one of them.
please read the thread. i am writing to try and educate, it's pointless if you're going to ignore it.

i also suggest you educate yourself on observation, deduction, and occam's razor, in addition to the points i have made.

I sometimes see the Earth is round and I know it's round by observation, deduction and occam's razor. Do you have eyes? Look out the window! Earth is round!

BTW: You know there's a company like Virgin Galactic?

are you able to do anything other than mount straw men?
don't change the topic. supposed space tourism is a topic for another thread. this one is exclusively about dual earth theory.

But really, I know the Earth is round and I know it from double source - from observation and deduction. Checkmate, FE'ers!
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: ausGeoff on March 29, 2015, 07:14:14 AM
Don't change the topic. Supposed space tourism is a topic for another thread. This one is exclusively about dual earth theory.

LOL... it's gonna come as a real shock when JRoweSceptimatic eventually discovers what the word "theory" actually means, and even worse to discover that he doesn't have one.  Although it's probably a temporary delusion that'll pass with the onset of puberty.

    :P
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: spaceman spiff on March 29, 2015, 07:15:35 AM
Could you please define what you mean by "space"?
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on March 29, 2015, 07:17:02 AM
Could you please define what you mean by "space"?

what is unclear about the word?
it's the space (which einstein called aether) from which our three dimensions of movement are defined.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: FalseProphet on March 29, 2015, 07:23:24 AM
Ok, I really try to understand your conception of space. But I am not sure if I get it, what you mean by "thinner or "thicker" or "space has infinite speed".

As I understand, with "thickness" of space you do not mean something like spatial dimension.

Let me ask you the following.

If B is the "Thickness" of Space, can B=0?

Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on March 29, 2015, 07:27:10 AM
Ok, I really try to understand your conception of space. But I am not sure if I get it, what you mean by "thinner or "thicker" or "space has infinite speed".

As I understand, with "thickness" of space you do not mean something like spatial dimension.

Let me ask you the following.

If B is the "Thickness" of Space, can B=0?

thickness of space is just a way of thinking of how much space is in an area. thing of a spring. the spring is a set size, but can be scrunched up, or stretched out: in the same way, the same amount of space can be stretched or compressed.
if b was zero, there would be no space. however, b can certainly get very, very close to zero.

the infinite speed point is only strange if you think of speed the same way it is for matter, which is clearly a flawed approach. it's not particularly important anyway, for more than advanced consideration.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: LogicalKiller on March 29, 2015, 07:30:49 AM

thickness of space is just a way of thinking of how much space is in an area

Have you got anything more than assumption? You're wrong from the very beginning. You say think of how much space is in an area, but you don't get it that the area is a space, so there can't be a number of amount of space in space, because space is space and it can't have itself in itself.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Weatherwax on March 29, 2015, 07:33:43 AM
Are the undersiders evil?
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on March 29, 2015, 07:35:08 AM
Are the undersiders evil?

it's the southern hemisphere, containing such places as australia, so probably.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on March 29, 2015, 07:36:36 AM

thickness of space is just a way of thinking of how much space is in an area

Have you got anything more than assumption? You're wrong from the very beginning. You say think of how much space is in an area, but you don't get it that the area is a space, so there can't be a number of amount of space in space, because space is space and it can't have itself in itself.

it's to do with subjective vs objective measurement. this is why i like to use aether as the objective measurement of space, as the word choice is less confusing. if there is more aether (objective space) in space (what we subjectively observe to be space) then that's 'thick space'. if there is little aether, that's thin space, and can be crossed instantly.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: LogicalKiller on March 29, 2015, 07:39:15 AM

thickness of space is just a way of thinking of how much space is in an area

Have you got anything more than assumption? You're wrong from the very beginning. You say think of how much space is in an area, but you don't get it that the area is a space, so there can't be a number of amount of space in space, because space is space and it can't have itself in itself.

it's to do with subjective vs objective measurement. this is why i like to use aether as the objective measurement of space, as the word choice is less confusing. if there is more aether (objective space) in space (what we subjectively observe to be space) then that's 'thick space'. if there is little aether, that's thin space, and can be crossed instantly.

You're just changing words, but not changing the sense and my response is still the same.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on March 29, 2015, 07:40:51 AM

thickness of space is just a way of thinking of how much space is in an area

Have you got anything more than assumption? You're wrong from the very beginning. You say think of how much space is in an area, but you don't get it that the area is a space, so there can't be a number of amount of space in space, because space is space and it can't have itself in itself.

it's to do with subjective vs objective measurement. this is why i like to use aether as the objective measurement of space, as the word choice is less confusing. if there is more aether (objective space) in space (what we subjectively observe to be space) then that's 'thick space'. if there is little aether, that's thin space, and can be crossed instantly.

You're just changing words, but not changing the sense and my response is still the same.

you don't seem to understand that there is a difference between what is objectively true, and what is subjectively true. a spring doesn't get any bigger, but if you stretch it out it certainly looks it. think of it that way.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: ausGeoff on March 29, 2015, 07:44:41 AM
Thickness of space is just a way of thinking of how much space is in an area.

Is this person actually writing using conventional English?  Why am I having so much trouble comprehending what he's saying in so many comments?  Has my brain taken its annual leave?  Are bears Catholic?  Does the Pope shit in the woods?  What's the price of bananas in Zimbabwe?
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: FalseProphet on March 29, 2015, 08:20:00 AM
Your terminology is really confusing, for on one side you equal aether with space, on the other side you distinguish them, leading to statements like "in thinner space there is less space in space". But I see that the connection between them two is very profound. Is it like that:

If the thickness of space = the amount of aether in a given area would be = 0, that would mean, that we could pass through an arbitrarily large area of such an "empty space" within a time span t=0, so that the spatial dimension of this area would effectively be 0, too. So there is a direct proportion between the Aetherial Density and the effective Spatial Dimension of an area. Is that right?

But if so, wouldn't that mean that the observed Aetherial Density (AD) would always be the same? For the more we stretch the space, the smaller it gets for us, due to the inverse proportionality between the AD of an area and the time we need to pass it.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: ausGeoff on March 29, 2015, 08:23:37 AM
A spring doesn't get any bigger, but if you stretch it out it certainly looks it.

Shit... I'm betting Stephen Hawking's missed that critical bit of reasoning.  Better fire up the ol' carrier pigeon LOL.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Dinosaur Neil on March 29, 2015, 08:49:00 AM
t I think DET explains more than the generic Flat Earth Model and even RET.
Please tell me something which DET explains better than RET. I'm all ears.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: LogicalKiller on March 29, 2015, 08:53:44 AM

thickness of space is just a way of thinking of how much space is in an area

Have you got anything more than assumption? You're wrong from the very beginning. You say think of how much space is in an area, but you don't get it that the area is a space, so there can't be a number of amount of space in space, because space is space and it can't have itself in itself.

it's to do with subjective vs objective measurement. this is why i like to use aether as the objective measurement of space, as the word choice is less confusing. if there is more aether (objective space) in space (what we subjectively observe to be space) then that's 'thick space'. if there is little aether, that's thin space, and can be crossed instantly.

You're just changing words, but not changing the sense and my response is still the same.

you don't seem to understand that there is a difference between what is objectively true, and what is subjectively true. a spring doesn't get any bigger, but if you stretch it out it certainly looks it. think of it that way.

Its density is still the same.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: theTruth on March 29, 2015, 09:11:32 AM
t I think DET explains more than the generic Flat Earth Model and even RET.
Please tell me something which DET explains better than RET. I'm all ears.

There are alternative theories which you may find even more persuasive. My personal PET seems best.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on March 29, 2015, 11:53:09 AM
Your terminology is really confusing, for on one side you equal aether with space, on the other side you distinguish them, leading to statements like "in thinner space there is less space in space". But I see that the connection between them two is very profound. Is it like that:

If the thickness of space = the amount of aether in a given area would be = 0, that would mean, that we could pass through an arbitrarily large area of such an "empty space" within a time span t=0, so that the spatial dimension of this area would effectively be 0, too. So there is a direct proportion between the Aetherial Density and the effective Spatial Dimension of an area. Is that right?

But if so, wouldn't that mean that the observed Aetherial Density (AD) would always be the same? For the more we stretch the space, the smaller it gets for us, due to the inverse proportionality between the AD of an area and the time we need to pass it.

on the whole, aether can be referred to as the same as space: in the same way that water is in fact a molecule, yet we call the liquid composed of billions 'water' also. it's only when we get to the small, technical scale that it's important to distinguish between the liquid water and its building block, or space and its building block aether.

you are correct, however. thinness of space means we can pass through an area far more quickly. use the speed equals distance divided by time equation. speed is constant, but distance shrinks (as distance depends on space). for a smaller distance, you'd need even smaller time.
you are also right that it is hard to directly observe the thickness of space. however, we can see its consequences. for example, as with all things, aether flows from areas of high concentration or pressure, to areas with less. this behavior we see in, for example, untied balloons: the high pressure inside the balloon rushes out. as such, we can observe the force imparted by the flow to determine where the thicker and thinner areas are (for example, the especially thin terrestrial aether within the earth, which causes 'gravity' and aetheric transmission).
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on March 29, 2015, 11:56:52 AM

thickness of space is just a way of thinking of how much space is in an area

Have you got anything more than assumption? You're wrong from the very beginning. You say think of how much space is in an area, but you don't get it that the area is a space, so there can't be a number of amount of space in space, because space is space and it can't have itself in itself.

it's to do with subjective vs objective measurement. this is why i like to use aether as the objective measurement of space, as the word choice is less confusing. if there is more aether (objective space) in space (what we subjectively observe to be space) then that's 'thick space'. if there is little aether, that's thin space, and can be crossed instantly.

You're just changing words, but not changing the sense and my response is still the same.

you don't seem to understand that there is a difference between what is objectively true, and what is subjectively true. a spring doesn't get any bigger, but if you stretch it out it certainly looks it. think of it that way.

Its density is still the same.

exactly: in the same way, distance spanned by space remains the same, as distance is to space what density is to matter. in this way, longer distances can be fitted into what seem like smaller ones.
please don't focus on the phrasing, it's notoriously hard to express complicated ideas clearly, but i hope this makes sense.

to use the spring for the analogy, if you have a ruler that measures ten inches, and a spring that, when pulled, is fifteen inches long, then the spring is longer than the ruler. now, if you travel along the matter of the spring, that journey is more than fifteen inches, but still. now, compress the spring until it's smaller than ten inches. it now looks smaller than the ruler. however, if you retrace the path over the spring, the amount of matter there hasn't changed. it's the same distance, just in a smaller space.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: LogicalKiller on March 29, 2015, 12:17:20 PM

thickness of space is just a way of thinking of how much space is in an area

Have you got anything more than assumption? You're wrong from the very beginning. You say think of how much space is in an area, but you don't get it that the area is a space, so there can't be a number of amount of space in space, because space is space and it can't have itself in itself.

it's to do with subjective vs objective measurement. this is why i like to use aether as the objective measurement of space, as the word choice is less confusing. if there is more aether (objective space) in space (what we subjectively observe to be space) then that's 'thick space'. if there is little aether, that's thin space, and can be crossed instantly.

You're just changing words, but not changing the sense and my response is still the same.

you don't seem to understand that there is a difference between what is objectively true, and what is subjectively true. a spring doesn't get any bigger, but if you stretch it out it certainly looks it. think of it that way.

Its density is still the same.

exactly: in the same way, distance spanned by space remains the same, as distance is to space what density is to matter. in this way, longer distances can be fitted into what seem like smaller ones.
please don't focus on the phrasing, it's notoriously hard to express complicated ideas clearly, but i hope this makes sense.

to use the spring for the analogy, if you have a ruler that measures ten inches, and a spring that, when pulled, is fifteen inches long, then the spring is longer than the ruler. now, if you travel along the matter of the spring, that journey is more than fifteen inches, but still. now, compress the spring until it's smaller than ten inches. it now looks smaller than the ruler. however, if you retrace the path over the spring, the amount of matter there hasn't changed. it's the same distance, just in a smaller space.

No, string pulled back is shorter than a string stretched. And also - string stretched and not stretched is occuping the same amount of space. Still, space can't be denser or not if it's not a matter, because, a term "dense" means an amount of particles on some square of some measure. Have you seen? Particles. And space is build from nothing material, but time.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on March 29, 2015, 12:21:11 PM

thickness of space is just a way of thinking of how much space is in an area

Have you got anything more than assumption? You're wrong from the very beginning. You say think of how much space is in an area, but you don't get it that the area is a space, so there can't be a number of amount of space in space, because space is space and it can't have itself in itself.

it's to do with subjective vs objective measurement. this is why i like to use aether as the objective measurement of space, as the word choice is less confusing. if there is more aether (objective space) in space (what we subjectively observe to be space) then that's 'thick space'. if there is little aether, that's thin space, and can be crossed instantly.

You're just changing words, but not changing the sense and my response is still the same.

you don't seem to understand that there is a difference between what is objectively true, and what is subjectively true. a spring doesn't get any bigger, but if you stretch it out it certainly looks it. think of it that way.

Its density is still the same.

exactly: in the same way, distance spanned by space remains the same, as distance is to space what density is to matter. in this way, longer distances can be fitted into what seem like smaller ones.
please don't focus on the phrasing, it's notoriously hard to express complicated ideas clearly, but i hope this makes sense.

to use the spring for the analogy, if you have a ruler that measures ten inches, and a spring that, when pulled, is fifteen inches long, then the spring is longer than the ruler. now, if you travel along the matter of the spring, that journey is more than fifteen inches, but still. now, compress the spring until it's smaller than ten inches. it now looks smaller than the ruler. however, if you retrace the path over the spring, the amount of matter there hasn't changed. it's the same distance, just in a smaller space.

No, string pulled back is shorter than a string stretched. And also - string stretched and not stretched is occuping the same amount of space. Still, space can't be denser or not if it's not a matter, because, a term "dense" means an amount of particles on some square of some measure. Have you seen? Particles. And space is build from nothing material, but time.

of course they occupy the same space, they exist in space. this is analogy, it's never going to be perfect. similarly, i never said space was dense, that was an analogy as i said explicitly.
space is technically made of spacetime (aether, as einstein called it), not just time.

regardless, you're not addressing what i have to say, you're focusing on semantics. please can you read the post, and read it as it was written: as an analogy. i think the point is made quite clear then.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: LogicalKiller on March 29, 2015, 12:43:19 PM

thickness of space is just a way of thinking of how much space is in an area

Have you got anything more than assumption? You're wrong from the very beginning. You say think of how much space is in an area, but you don't get it that the area is a space, so there can't be a number of amount of space in space, because space is space and it can't have itself in itself.

it's to do with subjective vs objective measurement. this is why i like to use aether as the objective measurement of space, as the word choice is less confusing. if there is more aether (objective space) in space (what we subjectively observe to be space) then that's 'thick space'. if there is little aether, that's thin space, and can be crossed instantly.

You're just changing words, but not changing the sense and my response is still the same.

you don't seem to understand that there is a difference between what is objectively true, and what is subjectively true. a spring doesn't get any bigger, but if you stretch it out it certainly looks it. think of it that way.

Its density is still the same.

exactly: in the same way, distance spanned by space remains the same, as distance is to space what density is to matter. in this way, longer distances can be fitted into what seem like smaller ones.
please don't focus on the phrasing, it's notoriously hard to express complicated ideas clearly, but i hope this makes sense.

to use the spring for the analogy, if you have a ruler that measures ten inches, and a spring that, when pulled, is fifteen inches long, then the spring is longer than the ruler. now, if you travel along the matter of the spring, that journey is more than fifteen inches, but still. now, compress the spring until it's smaller than ten inches. it now looks smaller than the ruler. however, if you retrace the path over the spring, the amount of matter there hasn't changed. it's the same distance, just in a smaller space.

No, string pulled back is shorter than a string stretched. And also - string stretched and not stretched is occuping the same amount of space. Still, space can't be denser or not if it's not a matter, because, a term "dense" means an amount of particles on some square of some measure. Have you seen? Particles. And space is build from nothing material, but time.

of course they occupy the same space, they exist in space. this is analogy, it's never going to be perfect. similarly, i never said space was dense, that was an analogy as i said explicitly.
space is technically made of spacetime (aether, as einstein called it), not just time.

regardless, you're not addressing what i have to say, you're focusing on semantics. please can you read the post, and read it as it was written: as an analogy. i think the point is made quite clear then.

Spacetime isn't aether and Einstein in later years of his life didn't believe in aether. Every your analogy was debunked, so prepare a new one, because every previous going on about why can space be thicker or thinner was debunked.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on March 29, 2015, 12:46:08 PM

thickness of space is just a way of thinking of how much space is in an area

Have you got anything more than assumption? You're wrong from the very beginning. You say think of how much space is in an area, but you don't get it that the area is a space, so there can't be a number of amount of space in space, because space is space and it can't have itself in itself.

it's to do with subjective vs objective measurement. this is why i like to use aether as the objective measurement of space, as the word choice is less confusing. if there is more aether (objective space) in space (what we subjectively observe to be space) then that's 'thick space'. if there is little aether, that's thin space, and can be crossed instantly.

You're just changing words, but not changing the sense and my response is still the same.

you don't seem to understand that there is a difference between what is objectively true, and what is subjectively true. a spring doesn't get any bigger, but if you stretch it out it certainly looks it. think of it that way.

Its density is still the same.

exactly: in the same way, distance spanned by space remains the same, as distance is to space what density is to matter. in this way, longer distances can be fitted into what seem like smaller ones.
please don't focus on the phrasing, it's notoriously hard to express complicated ideas clearly, but i hope this makes sense.

to use the spring for the analogy, if you have a ruler that measures ten inches, and a spring that, when pulled, is fifteen inches long, then the spring is longer than the ruler. now, if you travel along the matter of the spring, that journey is more than fifteen inches, but still. now, compress the spring until it's smaller than ten inches. it now looks smaller than the ruler. however, if you retrace the path over the spring, the amount of matter there hasn't changed. it's the same distance, just in a smaller space.

No, string pulled back is shorter than a string stretched. And also - string stretched and not stretched is occuping the same amount of space. Still, space can't be denser or not if it's not a matter, because, a term "dense" means an amount of particles on some square of some measure. Have you seen? Particles. And space is build from nothing material, but time.

of course they occupy the same space, they exist in space. this is analogy, it's never going to be perfect. similarly, i never said space was dense, that was an analogy as i said explicitly.
space is technically made of spacetime (aether, as einstein called it), not just time.

regardless, you're not addressing what i have to say, you're focusing on semantics. please can you read the post, and read it as it was written: as an analogy. i think the point is made quite clear then.

Spacetime isn't aether and Einstein in later years of his life didn't believe in aether. Every your analogy was debunked, so prepare a new one, because every previous going on about why can space be thicker or thinner was debunked.

an analogy is not debunked by you ignoring it. i suggest you read and respond to what i have actually said.

this conversation started off interesting, but now you're falling into your old habit. i enjoy talking when something happens, but you're forcing us into circles because you've stopped acknowledging a word i've said.
if something is wrong with my analogy, say what it is. currently your only complaints are that it is an analogy. it is not meant to be completely accurate, it is meant to provide a way of thinking. think about space in those terms, tell me what the problem is with space being thinner or thicker rather than merely asserting, and if you can't do that with respect to my analogy, then stop replying.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: LogicalKiller on March 29, 2015, 12:59:21 PM

thickness of space is just a way of thinking of how much space is in an area

Have you got anything more than assumption? You're wrong from the very beginning. You say think of how much space is in an area, but you don't get it that the area is a space, so there can't be a number of amount of space in space, because space is space and it can't have itself in itself.

it's to do with subjective vs objective measurement. this is why i like to use aether as the objective measurement of space, as the word choice is less confusing. if there is more aether (objective space) in space (what we subjectively observe to be space) then that's 'thick space'. if there is little aether, that's thin space, and can be crossed instantly.

You're just changing words, but not changing the sense and my response is still the same.

you don't seem to understand that there is a difference between what is objectively true, and what is subjectively true. a spring doesn't get any bigger, but if you stretch it out it certainly looks it. think of it that way.

Its density is still the same.

exactly: in the same way, distance spanned by space remains the same, as distance is to space what density is to matter. in this way, longer distances can be fitted into what seem like smaller ones.
please don't focus on the phrasing, it's notoriously hard to express complicated ideas clearly, but i hope this makes sense.

to use the spring for the analogy, if you have a ruler that measures ten inches, and a spring that, when pulled, is fifteen inches long, then the spring is longer than the ruler. now, if you travel along the matter of the spring, that journey is more than fifteen inches, but still. now, compress the spring until it's smaller than ten inches. it now looks smaller than the ruler. however, if you retrace the path over the spring, the amount of matter there hasn't changed. it's the same distance, just in a smaller space.

No, string pulled back is shorter than a string stretched. And also - string stretched and not stretched is occuping the same amount of space. Still, space can't be denser or not if it's not a matter, because, a term "dense" means an amount of particles on some square of some measure. Have you seen? Particles. And space is build from nothing material, but time.

of course they occupy the same space, they exist in space. this is analogy, it's never going to be perfect. similarly, i never said space was dense, that was an analogy as i said explicitly.
space is technically made of spacetime (aether, as einstein called it), not just time.

regardless, you're not addressing what i have to say, you're focusing on semantics. please can you read the post, and read it as it was written: as an analogy. i think the point is made quite clear then.

Spacetime isn't aether and Einstein in later years of his life didn't believe in aether. Every your analogy was debunked, so prepare a new one, because every previous going on about why can space be thicker or thinner was debunked.

an analogy is not debunked by you ignoring it. i suggest you read and respond to what i have actually said.

this conversation started off interesting, but now you're falling into your old habit. i enjoy talking when something happens, but you're forcing us into circles because you've stopped acknowledging a word i've said.
if something is wrong with my analogy, say what it is. currently your only complaints are that it is an analogy. it is not meant to be completely accurate, it is meant to provide a way of thinking. think about space in those terms, tell me what the problem is with space being thinner or thicker rather than merely asserting, and if you can't do that with respect to my analogy, then stop replying.

I'll ask you - how do you imagine a thinner or thicker space? For me space is just an empty place to put matter in. Look for it - universe expands. By universe, I mean space creating universe. How it expands? It makes something that don't exist exist. In our universe everything exist, out of our universe there is a world of non-existence. And space brings existence right there. And that's what pulls a difference between space and a "thing" out of our universe. Space and a "thing" out of our universe isn't made of matter, but space is the thing that exists and brings existence and the "thing" out of our universe is non=existing, just nothing there.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on March 29, 2015, 01:01:41 PM

thickness of space is just a way of thinking of how much space is in an area

Have you got anything more than assumption? You're wrong from the very beginning. You say think of how much space is in an area, but you don't get it that the area is a space, so there can't be a number of amount of space in space, because space is space and it can't have itself in itself.

it's to do with subjective vs objective measurement. this is why i like to use aether as the objective measurement of space, as the word choice is less confusing. if there is more aether (objective space) in space (what we subjectively observe to be space) then that's 'thick space'. if there is little aether, that's thin space, and can be crossed instantly.

You're just changing words, but not changing the sense and my response is still the same.

you don't seem to understand that there is a difference between what is objectively true, and what is subjectively true. a spring doesn't get any bigger, but if you stretch it out it certainly looks it. think of it that way.

Its density is still the same.

exactly: in the same way, distance spanned by space remains the same, as distance is to space what density is to matter. in this way, longer distances can be fitted into what seem like smaller ones.
please don't focus on the phrasing, it's notoriously hard to express complicated ideas clearly, but i hope this makes sense.

to use the spring for the analogy, if you have a ruler that measures ten inches, and a spring that, when pulled, is fifteen inches long, then the spring is longer than the ruler. now, if you travel along the matter of the spring, that journey is more than fifteen inches, but still. now, compress the spring until it's smaller than ten inches. it now looks smaller than the ruler. however, if you retrace the path over the spring, the amount of matter there hasn't changed. it's the same distance, just in a smaller space.

No, string pulled back is shorter than a string stretched. And also - string stretched and not stretched is occuping the same amount of space. Still, space can't be denser or not if it's not a matter, because, a term "dense" means an amount of particles on some square of some measure. Have you seen? Particles. And space is build from nothing material, but time.

of course they occupy the same space, they exist in space. this is analogy, it's never going to be perfect. similarly, i never said space was dense, that was an analogy as i said explicitly.
space is technically made of spacetime (aether, as einstein called it), not just time.

regardless, you're not addressing what i have to say, you're focusing on semantics. please can you read the post, and read it as it was written: as an analogy. i think the point is made quite clear then.

Spacetime isn't aether and Einstein in later years of his life didn't believe in aether. Every your analogy was debunked, so prepare a new one, because every previous going on about why can space be thicker or thinner was debunked.

an analogy is not debunked by you ignoring it. i suggest you read and respond to what i have actually said.

this conversation started off interesting, but now you're falling into your old habit. i enjoy talking when something happens, but you're forcing us into circles because you've stopped acknowledging a word i've said.
if something is wrong with my analogy, say what it is. currently your only complaints are that it is an analogy. it is not meant to be completely accurate, it is meant to provide a way of thinking. think about space in those terms, tell me what the problem is with space being thinner or thicker rather than merely asserting, and if you can't do that with respect to my analogy, then stop replying.

I'll ask you - how do you imagine a thinner or thicker space? For me space is just an empty place to put matter in. Look for it - universe expands. By universe, I mean space creating universe. How it expands? It makes something that don't exist exist. In our universe everything exist, out of our universe there is a world of non-existence. And space brings existence right there. And that's what pulls a difference between space and a "thing" out of our universe. Space and a "thing" out of our universe isn't made of matter, but space is the thing that exists and brings existence and the "thing" out of our universe is non=existing, just nothing there.

and given that there is a difference between space and non-space, there is clearly some substance to space: something must make it up. it's just a matter of how concentrated that is.
beyond that, i refer you to the spring analogy. you seem to be under the impression that just because something is higher-dimensional and tricky to visualize means it's false.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: LogicalKiller on March 29, 2015, 01:05:59 PM

thickness of space is just a way of thinking of how much space is in an area

Have you got anything more than assumption? You're wrong from the very beginning. You say think of how much space is in an area, but you don't get it that the area is a space, so there can't be a number of amount of space in space, because space is space and it can't have itself in itself.

it's to do with subjective vs objective measurement. this is why i like to use aether as the objective measurement of space, as the word choice is less confusing. if there is more aether (objective space) in space (what we subjectively observe to be space) then that's 'thick space'. if there is little aether, that's thin space, and can be crossed instantly.

You're just changing words, but not changing the sense and my response is still the same.

you don't seem to understand that there is a difference between what is objectively true, and what is subjectively true. a spring doesn't get any bigger, but if you stretch it out it certainly looks it. think of it that way.

Its density is still the same.

exactly: in the same way, distance spanned by space remains the same, as distance is to space what density is to matter. in this way, longer distances can be fitted into what seem like smaller ones.
please don't focus on the phrasing, it's notoriously hard to express complicated ideas clearly, but i hope this makes sense.

to use the spring for the analogy, if you have a ruler that measures ten inches, and a spring that, when pulled, is fifteen inches long, then the spring is longer than the ruler. now, if you travel along the matter of the spring, that journey is more than fifteen inches, but still. now, compress the spring until it's smaller than ten inches. it now looks smaller than the ruler. however, if you retrace the path over the spring, the amount of matter there hasn't changed. it's the same distance, just in a smaller space.

No, string pulled back is shorter than a string stretched. And also - string stretched and not stretched is occuping the same amount of space. Still, space can't be denser or not if it's not a matter, because, a term "dense" means an amount of particles on some square of some measure. Have you seen? Particles. And space is build from nothing material, but time.

of course they occupy the same space, they exist in space. this is analogy, it's never going to be perfect. similarly, i never said space was dense, that was an analogy as i said explicitly.
space is technically made of spacetime (aether, as einstein called it), not just time.

regardless, you're not addressing what i have to say, you're focusing on semantics. please can you read the post, and read it as it was written: as an analogy. i think the point is made quite clear then.

Spacetime isn't aether and Einstein in later years of his life didn't believe in aether. Every your analogy was debunked, so prepare a new one, because every previous going on about why can space be thicker or thinner was debunked.

an analogy is not debunked by you ignoring it. i suggest you read and respond to what i have actually said.

this conversation started off interesting, but now you're falling into your old habit. i enjoy talking when something happens, but you're forcing us into circles because you've stopped acknowledging a word i've said.
if something is wrong with my analogy, say what it is. currently your only complaints are that it is an analogy. it is not meant to be completely accurate, it is meant to provide a way of thinking. think about space in those terms, tell me what the problem is with space being thinner or thicker rather than merely asserting, and if you can't do that with respect to my analogy, then stop replying.

I'll ask you - how do you imagine a thinner or thicker space? For me space is just an empty place to put matter in. Look for it - universe expands. By universe, I mean space creating universe. How it expands? It makes something that don't exist exist. In our universe everything exist, out of our universe there is a world of non-existence. And space brings existence right there. And that's what pulls a difference between space and a "thing" out of our universe. Space and a "thing" out of our universe isn't made of matter, but space is the thing that exists and brings existence and the "thing" out of our universe is non=existing, just nothing there.

and given that there is a difference between space and non-space, there is clearly some substance to space: something must make it up. it's just a matter of how concentrated that is.
beyond that, i refer you to the spring analogy. you seem to be under the impression that just because something is higher-dimensional and tricky to visualize means it's false.

You're assuming that something must make it up, try again with no assuming.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on March 29, 2015, 01:09:13 PM

thickness of space is just a way of thinking of how much space is in an area

Have you got anything more than assumption? You're wrong from the very beginning. You say think of how much space is in an area, but you don't get it that the area is a space, so there can't be a number of amount of space in space, because space is space and it can't have itself in itself.

it's to do with subjective vs objective measurement. this is why i like to use aether as the objective measurement of space, as the word choice is less confusing. if there is more aether (objective space) in space (what we subjectively observe to be space) then that's 'thick space'. if there is little aether, that's thin space, and can be crossed instantly.

You're just changing words, but not changing the sense and my response is still the same.

you don't seem to understand that there is a difference between what is objectively true, and what is subjectively true. a spring doesn't get any bigger, but if you stretch it out it certainly looks it. think of it that way.

Its density is still the same.

exactly: in the same way, distance spanned by space remains the same, as distance is to space what density is to matter. in this way, longer distances can be fitted into what seem like smaller ones.
please don't focus on the phrasing, it's notoriously hard to express complicated ideas clearly, but i hope this makes sense.

to use the spring for the analogy, if you have a ruler that measures ten inches, and a spring that, when pulled, is fifteen inches long, then the spring is longer than the ruler. now, if you travel along the matter of the spring, that journey is more than fifteen inches, but still. now, compress the spring until it's smaller than ten inches. it now looks smaller than the ruler. however, if you retrace the path over the spring, the amount of matter there hasn't changed. it's the same distance, just in a smaller space.

No, string pulled back is shorter than a string stretched. And also - string stretched and not stretched is occuping the same amount of space. Still, space can't be denser or not if it's not a matter, because, a term "dense" means an amount of particles on some square of some measure. Have you seen? Particles. And space is build from nothing material, but time.

of course they occupy the same space, they exist in space. this is analogy, it's never going to be perfect. similarly, i never said space was dense, that was an analogy as i said explicitly.
space is technically made of spacetime (aether, as einstein called it), not just time.

regardless, you're not addressing what i have to say, you're focusing on semantics. please can you read the post, and read it as it was written: as an analogy. i think the point is made quite clear then.

Spacetime isn't aether and Einstein in later years of his life didn't believe in aether. Every your analogy was debunked, so prepare a new one, because every previous going on about why can space be thicker or thinner was debunked.

an analogy is not debunked by you ignoring it. i suggest you read and respond to what i have actually said.

this conversation started off interesting, but now you're falling into your old habit. i enjoy talking when something happens, but you're forcing us into circles because you've stopped acknowledging a word i've said.
if something is wrong with my analogy, say what it is. currently your only complaints are that it is an analogy. it is not meant to be completely accurate, it is meant to provide a way of thinking. think about space in those terms, tell me what the problem is with space being thinner or thicker rather than merely asserting, and if you can't do that with respect to my analogy, then stop replying.

I'll ask you - how do you imagine a thinner or thicker space? For me space is just an empty place to put matter in. Look for it - universe expands. By universe, I mean space creating universe. How it expands? It makes something that don't exist exist. In our universe everything exist, out of our universe there is a world of non-existence. And space brings existence right there. And that's what pulls a difference between space and a "thing" out of our universe. Space and a "thing" out of our universe isn't made of matter, but space is the thing that exists and brings existence and the "thing" out of our universe is non=existing, just nothing there.

and given that there is a difference between space and non-space, there is clearly some substance to space: something must make it up. it's just a matter of how concentrated that is.
beyond that, i refer you to the spring analogy. you seem to be under the impression that just because something is higher-dimensional and tricky to visualize means it's false.

You're assuming that something must make it up, try again with no assuming.

is space is not composed of anything, then it is composed of nothing, so it does not exist.
space exists, so it is composed of something.

is that really the best you've got?
tell me how something can be made up of nothing (that is, not made up of anything) and there still be a difference between whether or not it exists, and your post will mean something.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: LogicalKiller on March 29, 2015, 01:15:13 PM

thickness of space is just a way of thinking of how much space is in an area

Have you got anything more than assumption? You're wrong from the very beginning. You say think of how much space is in an area, but you don't get it that the area is a space, so there can't be a number of amount of space in space, because space is space and it can't have itself in itself.

it's to do with subjective vs objective measurement. this is why i like to use aether as the objective measurement of space, as the word choice is less confusing. if there is more aether (objective space) in space (what we subjectively observe to be space) then that's 'thick space'. if there is little aether, that's thin space, and can be crossed instantly.

You're just changing words, but not changing the sense and my response is still the same.

you don't seem to understand that there is a difference between what is objectively true, and what is subjectively true. a spring doesn't get any bigger, but if you stretch it out it certainly looks it. think of it that way.

Its density is still the same.

exactly: in the same way, distance spanned by space remains the same, as distance is to space what density is to matter. in this way, longer distances can be fitted into what seem like smaller ones.
please don't focus on the phrasing, it's notoriously hard to express complicated ideas clearly, but i hope this makes sense.

to use the spring for the analogy, if you have a ruler that measures ten inches, and a spring that, when pulled, is fifteen inches long, then the spring is longer than the ruler. now, if you travel along the matter of the spring, that journey is more than fifteen inches, but still. now, compress the spring until it's smaller than ten inches. it now looks smaller than the ruler. however, if you retrace the path over the spring, the amount of matter there hasn't changed. it's the same distance, just in a smaller space.

No, string pulled back is shorter than a string stretched. And also - string stretched and not stretched is occuping the same amount of space. Still, space can't be denser or not if it's not a matter, because, a term "dense" means an amount of particles on some square of some measure. Have you seen? Particles. And space is build from nothing material, but time.

of course they occupy the same space, they exist in space. this is analogy, it's never going to be perfect. similarly, i never said space was dense, that was an analogy as i said explicitly.
space is technically made of spacetime (aether, as einstein called it), not just time.

regardless, you're not addressing what i have to say, you're focusing on semantics. please can you read the post, and read it as it was written: as an analogy. i think the point is made quite clear then.

Spacetime isn't aether and Einstein in later years of his life didn't believe in aether. Every your analogy was debunked, so prepare a new one, because every previous going on about why can space be thicker or thinner was debunked.

an analogy is not debunked by you ignoring it. i suggest you read and respond to what i have actually said.

this conversation started off interesting, but now you're falling into your old habit. i enjoy talking when something happens, but you're forcing us into circles because you've stopped acknowledging a word i've said.
if something is wrong with my analogy, say what it is. currently your only complaints are that it is an analogy. it is not meant to be completely accurate, it is meant to provide a way of thinking. think about space in those terms, tell me what the problem is with space being thinner or thicker rather than merely asserting, and if you can't do that with respect to my analogy, then stop replying.

I'll ask you - how do you imagine a thinner or thicker space? For me space is just an empty place to put matter in. Look for it - universe expands. By universe, I mean space creating universe. How it expands? It makes something that don't exist exist. In our universe everything exist, out of our universe there is a world of non-existence. And space brings existence right there. And that's what pulls a difference between space and a "thing" out of our universe. Space and a "thing" out of our universe isn't made of matter, but space is the thing that exists and brings existence and the "thing" out of our universe is non=existing, just nothing there.

and given that there is a difference between space and non-space, there is clearly some substance to space: something must make it up. it's just a matter of how concentrated that is.
beyond that, i refer you to the spring analogy. you seem to be under the impression that just because something is higher-dimensional and tricky to visualize means it's false.

You're assuming that something must make it up, try again with no assuming.

is space is not composed of anything, then it is composed of nothing, so it does not exist.
space exists, so it is composed of something.

is that really the best you've got?
tell me how something can be made up of nothing (that is, not made up of anything) and there still be a difference between whether or not it exists, and your post will mean something.

Only material things have to be built of something to exist, space has not. Space is an empty place - how can an empty place to fill up be built of something? It can't.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: spaceman spiff on March 29, 2015, 02:38:42 PM
I asked you to define space because your terminology is incredibly confusing.
Quote
distance spanned by space remains the same, as distance is to space what density is to matter.
I don't get the analogy; you can tell how much matter there is in a given volume if you know the density (or calculate the density given the mass and volume). The common (somewhat informal) definition of distance is "space between points".
Quote
and given that there is a difference between space and non-space
What is non-space, and how does it differ from space?
Quote
space is technically made of spacetime
This is either VERY wrong or you are redefining terms. Spacetime is an abstract concept; mathematically, it's a manifold with some metric. You are thinking of space as something material, which is not, and therefore it does not need to be composed of anything
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on March 29, 2015, 03:07:38 PM

thickness of space is just a way of thinking of how much space is in an area

Have you got anything more than assumption? You're wrong from the very beginning. You say think of how much space is in an area, but you don't get it that the area is a space, so there can't be a number of amount of space in space, because space is space and it can't have itself in itself.

it's to do with subjective vs objective measurement. this is why i like to use aether as the objective measurement of space, as the word choice is less confusing. if there is more aether (objective space) in space (what we subjectively observe to be space) then that's 'thick space'. if there is little aether, that's thin space, and can be crossed instantly.

You're just changing words, but not changing the sense and my response is still the same.

you don't seem to understand that there is a difference between what is objectively true, and what is subjectively true. a spring doesn't get any bigger, but if you stretch it out it certainly looks it. think of it that way.

Its density is still the same.

exactly: in the same way, distance spanned by space remains the same, as distance is to space what density is to matter. in this way, longer distances can be fitted into what seem like smaller ones.
please don't focus on the phrasing, it's notoriously hard to express complicated ideas clearly, but i hope this makes sense.

to use the spring for the analogy, if you have a ruler that measures ten inches, and a spring that, when pulled, is fifteen inches long, then the spring is longer than the ruler. now, if you travel along the matter of the spring, that journey is more than fifteen inches, but still. now, compress the spring until it's smaller than ten inches. it now looks smaller than the ruler. however, if you retrace the path over the spring, the amount of matter there hasn't changed. it's the same distance, just in a smaller space.

No, string pulled back is shorter than a string stretched. And also - string stretched and not stretched is occuping the same amount of space. Still, space can't be denser or not if it's not a matter, because, a term "dense" means an amount of particles on some square of some measure. Have you seen? Particles. And space is build from nothing material, but time.

of course they occupy the same space, they exist in space. this is analogy, it's never going to be perfect. similarly, i never said space was dense, that was an analogy as i said explicitly.
space is technically made of spacetime (aether, as einstein called it), not just time.

regardless, you're not addressing what i have to say, you're focusing on semantics. please can you read the post, and read it as it was written: as an analogy. i think the point is made quite clear then.

Spacetime isn't aether and Einstein in later years of his life didn't believe in aether. Every your analogy was debunked, so prepare a new one, because every previous going on about why can space be thicker or thinner was debunked.

an analogy is not debunked by you ignoring it. i suggest you read and respond to what i have actually said.

this conversation started off interesting, but now you're falling into your old habit. i enjoy talking when something happens, but you're forcing us into circles because you've stopped acknowledging a word i've said.
if something is wrong with my analogy, say what it is. currently your only complaints are that it is an analogy. it is not meant to be completely accurate, it is meant to provide a way of thinking. think about space in those terms, tell me what the problem is with space being thinner or thicker rather than merely asserting, and if you can't do that with respect to my analogy, then stop replying.

I'll ask you - how do you imagine a thinner or thicker space? For me space is just an empty place to put matter in. Look for it - universe expands. By universe, I mean space creating universe. How it expands? It makes something that don't exist exist. In our universe everything exist, out of our universe there is a world of non-existence. And space brings existence right there. And that's what pulls a difference between space and a "thing" out of our universe. Space and a "thing" out of our universe isn't made of matter, but space is the thing that exists and brings existence and the "thing" out of our universe is non=existing, just nothing there.

and given that there is a difference between space and non-space, there is clearly some substance to space: something must make it up. it's just a matter of how concentrated that is.
beyond that, i refer you to the spring analogy. you seem to be under the impression that just because something is higher-dimensional and tricky to visualize means it's false.

You're assuming that something must make it up, try again with no assuming.

is space is not composed of anything, then it is composed of nothing, so it does not exist.
space exists, so it is composed of something.

is that really the best you've got?
tell me how something can be made up of nothing (that is, not made up of anything) and there still be a difference between whether or not it exists, and your post will mean something.

Only material things have to be built of something to exist, space has not. Space is an empty place - how can an empty place to fill up be built of something? It can't.

does space expand? you've said so, so there must be some concept of non-space. if space isn't made up of anything, what's the difference?
it's that simple. space is an empty place because you define emptiness to include space. there is clearly an emptiness with no space however, if space is expanding.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on March 29, 2015, 03:14:51 PM
I asked you to define space because your terminology is incredibly confusing.
Quote
distance spanned by space remains the same, as distance is to space what density is to matter.
I don't get the analogy; you can tell how much matter there is in a given volume if you know the density (or calculate the density given the mass and volume). The common (somewhat informal) definition of distance is "space between points".
Quote
and given that there is a difference between space and non-space
What is non-space, and how does it differ from space?
Quote
space is technically made of spacetime
This is either VERY wrong or you are redefining terms. Spacetime is an abstract concept; mathematically, it's a manifold with some metric. You are thinking of space as something material, which is not, and therefore it does not need to be composed of anything

this is advanced stuff, it's not surprising it's confusing.

distance is space between points. clearly, that depends on space. i like the analogy of a spring. you can get a pulled-out spring, and the length of the spring, along the material making it up, is set. compress the spring, it can fit in a smaller space that the stretched-out spring, but the length of it remains the same.
in that way, space can be thinner or thick. the density of the spring is constant each time, in the same way the time it takes to cross a certain amount of space remains the same. however, you can stretch out that space (like you stretch out the spring) so you can cover what seems to be, from an outside perspective, more distance, in the same time as it would take you to cross the compressed spring.

i am not thinking of space as a material, it's just very hard to explain it without relying on analogy.
space does have to be composed of some substance however, if it exists. scientific theory states space is expanding: what does that mean? if space is nothing, how could it expand? there is clearly a difference between space and non-space. non-space is what space expands into: non-space, essentially, doesn't exist (by any definition we could use).
space does exist: space is not nothing. if you disagree with either of those statements, please tell me why. if you do agree, as you should, then all i've said follows. if space is not nothing, then it is something.
that something is not matter, is higher-dimensional, but it clearly exists.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Dinosaur Neil on March 29, 2015, 05:15:19 PM
Here's a question about dual earth theory:
If light can be teleported from one side of the disc to the other, how does aether accomplish this without interacting with the photons?
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: spaceman spiff on March 29, 2015, 05:52:55 PM
Quote
distance is space between points. clearly, that depends on space.
Now I'm beginning to understand, and by "space" I think you mean different topologies with different metrics. This is fine, the distance between two points can change.
Quote
like the analogy of a spring. you can get a pulled-out spring, and the length of the spring, along the material making it up, is set. compress the spring, it can fit in a smaller space that the stretched-out spring, but the length of it remains the same.
in that way, space can be thinner or thick. the density of the spring is constant each time, in the same way the time it takes to cross a certain amount of space remains the same. however, you can stretch out that space (like you stretch out the spring) so you can cover what seems to be, from an outside perspective, more distance, in the same time as it would take you to cross the compressed spring.
But then it fails. You can call it thick or thinner as you want, but that only leads to confusion; also, that analogy only works if moving along the spring is the only option. Again, if space streches or compresses, the distances between points should follow. I'm still not sure why you're claiming otherwise.
Quote
i am not thinking of space as a material, it's just very hard to explain it without relying on analogy.
space does have to be composed of some substance however, if it exists. scientific theory states space is expanding: what does that mean? if space is nothing, how could it expand? there is clearly a difference between space and non-space. non-space is what space expands into: non-space, essentially, doesn't exist (by any definition we could use).
This is a common misconception; when scientists say space is expanding, what they mean is that the distance between any two points is increasing with time. And space is not expanding into anything, it's simply expanding: things that are a given distance at this moment will be further apart later on.
Quote
space does exist: space is not nothing. if you disagree with either of those statements, please tell me why. if you do agree, as you should, then all i've said follows. if space is not nothing, then it is something.
that something is not matter, is higher-dimensional, but it clearly exists.
Space is not nothing, but it is abstract, at least in the normal sense of the word (as in spacetime, Euclidian space, etc.). Therefore it's not nothing, but it also doesn't have substance
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Rama Set on March 29, 2015, 06:06:59 PM

does space expand? you've said so, so there must be some concept of non-space. if space isn't made up of anything, what's the difference?
it's that simple. space is an empty place because you define emptiness to include space. there is clearly an emptiness with no space however, if space is expanding.

The thinking is that the universe is not expanding in to anything, it is just expanding (http://www.universetoday.com/1455/podcast-what-is-the-universe-expanding-into/).  The universe has no edge and therefore cannot be departed from.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on March 30, 2015, 03:52:27 AM
Here's a question about dual earth theory:
If light can be teleported from one side of the disc to the other, how does aether accomplish this without interacting with the photons?

it depends what you're saying. i don't think anyone's ever said aether can't interact with anything, it clearly can. if you want the mechanism, i refer you to a recent post in the model thread: think of aether as synonymous with space. photons pass through space, don't they? therefore, they will be transmitted through the terrestrial aether (thin space: stretched out so that a smaller subjective distance covers a longer, objective one).
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on March 30, 2015, 03:57:42 AM
Quote
distance is space between points. clearly, that depends on space.
Now I'm beginning to understand, and by "space" I think you mean different topologies with different metrics. This is fine, the distance between two points can change.
Quote
like the analogy of a spring. you can get a pulled-out spring, and the length of the spring, along the material making it up, is set. compress the spring, it can fit in a smaller space that the stretched-out spring, but the length of it remains the same.
in that way, space can be thinner or thick. the density of the spring is constant each time, in the same way the time it takes to cross a certain amount of space remains the same. however, you can stretch out that space (like you stretch out the spring) so you can cover what seems to be, from an outside perspective, more distance, in the same time as it would take you to cross the compressed spring.
But then it fails. You can call it thick or thinner as you want, but that only leads to confusion; also, that analogy only works if moving along the spring is the only option. Again, if space streches or compresses, the distances between points should follow. I'm still not sure why you're claiming otherwise.
Quote
i am not thinking of space as a material, it's just very hard to explain it without relying on analogy.
space does have to be composed of some substance however, if it exists. scientific theory states space is expanding: what does that mean? if space is nothing, how could it expand? there is clearly a difference between space and non-space. non-space is what space expands into: non-space, essentially, doesn't exist (by any definition we could use).
This is a common misconception; when scientists say space is expanding, what they mean is that the distance between any two points is increasing with time. And space is not expanding into anything, it's simply expanding: things that are a given distance at this moment will be further apart later on.
Quote
space does exist: space is not nothing. if you disagree with either of those statements, please tell me why. if you do agree, as you should, then all i've said follows. if space is not nothing, then it is something.
that something is not matter, is higher-dimensional, but it clearly exists.
Space is not nothing, but it is abstract, at least in the normal sense of the word (as in spacetime, Euclidian space, etc.). Therefore it's not nothing, but it also doesn't have substance

analogies are never perfect. moving across the spring is obviously not the only option, however. if you're at the right of the earth and want to get to the lower left, you could hop across the equator, or trek to the other side of the world and dig all the way through. both work, but only one is feasible.
a distance within a set amount of aether (switching terminology to avoid confusion) is not going to change: that's its equivalent to 'density' or length, for the spring. you can stretch out that aether so it goes from one edge of the world to the other, making it thinner, when you're inside it it's going to feel like the same distance. it's only from an external perspective that you see something is odd. similarly, it could be compressed to half the size, made thicker, and the distance from inside it is still going to remain constant. outside, however, it would just seem like you're taking twice the time you should.

true, space isn't expanding into anything, because there's nothing to expand into. however, the fact is is capable of expanding directly implies it is not nothingness, as others seem to be saying. indeed, as distances between points are growing, this is evidence that the mechanism i am relying on makes sense. space and distance are mutable: that is everything i have been saying.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Weatherwax on March 30, 2015, 04:06:25 AM
Question: how do you know all this stuff about the dual earth, two suns, aether etc?
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on March 30, 2015, 04:11:24 AM
Question: how do you know all this stuff about the dual earth, two suns, aether etc?

observation, communication and deduction.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: ausGeoff on March 30, 2015, 06:07:33 AM
To use the spring for the analogy, if you have a ruler that measures ten inches, and a spring that, when pulled, is fifteen inches long, then the spring is longer than the ruler. now, if you travel along the matter of the spring, that journey is more than fifteen inches, but still. Now, compress the spring until it's smaller than ten inches.  It now looks smaller than the ruler. however, if you retrace the path over the spring, the amount of matter there hasn't changed. it's the same distance, just in a smaller space.

I'm not sure whether this guy is actually being serious, and believes all this gibberish he posts, or whether it's nothing more than a ginormous piss-take?

Are we meant to be laughing at the joke, or seriously considering these whack-job notions as some sort of genuine scientific debate?

    ???
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Weatherwax on March 30, 2015, 06:23:47 AM
Question: how do you know all this stuff about the dual earth, two suns, aether etc?

observation, communication and deduction.

Communication? I thought this was solely you own idea. Who have you been communicating with?
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Misero on March 30, 2015, 06:25:32 AM
Question: how do you know all this stuff about the dual earth, two suns, aether etc?

observation, communication and deduction.

Communication? I thought this was solely you own idea. Who have you been communicating with?
The aether talks.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: ausGeoff on March 30, 2015, 06:27:47 AM
The aether talks.

Assuming that it does...  English?  Swahili?  Klingon maybe?    ???
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Misero on March 30, 2015, 06:30:29 AM
I asked him once, no answer. Does it speak anything but english?
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Weatherwax on March 30, 2015, 06:34:18 AM
This thread is for questions for JRowe.

I'll restate my question. Who have you been communicating with over this?
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on March 30, 2015, 06:55:01 AM
I asked him once, no answer. Does it speak anything but english?

it doesn't speak in a language, as such. i interpret it as english, as that's what i speak, but it imparts meaning universally.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on March 30, 2015, 06:56:31 AM
This thread is for questions for JRowe.

I'll restate my question. Who have you been communicating with over this?

much of my evidence comes from what's already been said in this thread. i have learnt of many things which helped me refine my theory from this site, however, from researchers such as vauxhall. sceptimatic also, though we disagree, helped me to improve my theory of 'gravity' in the absence of acceleration (in the dual earth model).
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: LogicalKiller on March 30, 2015, 07:00:10 AM
I asked him once, no answer. Does it speak anything but english?

it doesn't speak in a language, as such. i interpret it as english, as that's what i speak, but it imparts meaning universally.

I know that Earth is round because of communication between gravity. You don't have to believe me, but it's true. I communicate with gravity by telepatic forces, which are coming to my brain and then are translated into Polish, because most probably gravity talks only in Polish.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on March 30, 2015, 07:03:59 AM
I asked him once, no answer. Does it speak anything but english?

it doesn't speak in a language, as such. i interpret it as english, as that's what i speak, but it imparts meaning universally.

I know that Earth is round because of communication between gravity. You don't have to believe me, but it's true. I communicate with gravity by telepatic forces, which are coming to my brain and then are translated into Polish, because most probably gravity talks only in Polish.

not only does gravity not exist, but there is no reason to think it could be in communication with a mind. after all, gravity relies on mass, and minds do not possess mass. there is also nothing to set polish as anything universal's chosen language. you're being ridiculous.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: ausGeoff on March 30, 2015, 07:10:43 AM
After all, gravity relies on mass, and minds do not possess mass.

Well, that's certainly true in JRoweSceptimatic's case... as he's proven numerous times here.    ;D    ;D    ;D
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on March 30, 2015, 07:14:50 AM
After all, gravity relies on mass, and minds do not possess mass.

Well, that's certainly true in JRoweSceptimatic's case... as he's proven numerous times here.    ;D    ;D    ;D

it may amaze you to know, but some people are actually interested in discussion. this thread is 'ask me about dual earth theory'. if you have no questions, only insults (which seem to sum up your contribution to this site), stop posting. if you just want to blab about how you think anything outside your narrow view of the world is ridiculous, take it to a different thread or just build your own as you seem to love the sound of your own voice devoid of content.

i am trying to have a serious discussion, and to educate. stop wasting everyone's time.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Umurweird on March 30, 2015, 07:18:15 AM
I have a question....

Have you ever actually been to the equator and if so, when?
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on March 30, 2015, 07:23:11 AM
I have a question....

Have you ever actually been to the equator and if so, when?

not directly, but i have reportedly crossed it.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Umurweird on March 30, 2015, 07:24:53 AM
Okay....

And have you physically been to both hemispheres and both poles?
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: ausGeoff on March 30, 2015, 07:26:20 AM
I am trying to have a serious discussion, and to educate. Stop wasting everyone's time.

Uh... haven't you yet noticed that people are taking the piss out of you—and your nonsensical notions about the "aether"?  Surely you're not so dimwitted that you think anybody's taking all your pseudo-scientific drivel seriously?  Or are you?

—BTW, I thought you had me in your IGNORE listing?   Just can't resist occasionally learning a bit of real science can you LOL.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Misero on March 30, 2015, 07:27:09 AM
Are you implying that the mind is not in the brain, but a phenomenon that has nothing to do with electrical currents?
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on March 30, 2015, 07:27:22 AM
I am trying to have a serious discussion, and to educate. Stop wasting everyone's time.

Uh... haven't you yet noticed that people are taking the piss out of you—and your nonsensical notions about the "aether"?  Surely you're not so dimwitted that you think anybody's taking all your pseudo-scientific drivel seriously?  Or are you?

—BTW, I thought you had me in your IGNORE listing?   Just can't resist occasionally learning a bit of real science can you LOL.

i would very much suggest you read this thread, starting at the first post.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on March 30, 2015, 07:28:42 AM
Okay....

And have you physically been to both hemispheres and both poles?

not to both poles, but i have been to both 'hemispheres'. why?
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on March 30, 2015, 07:29:29 AM
Are you implying that the mind is not in the brain, but a phenomenon that has nothing to do with electrical currents?

that's common knowledge. i suggest you research such things as qualia. the mind affects the electrical currents in the brain, certainly, but it is beyond them.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Misero on March 30, 2015, 07:30:55 AM
Except for the experiments we've done on rats to control their consciousness using lasers and genetically modified viruses to make certain cells susceptible to said lasers.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Umurweird on March 30, 2015, 07:32:15 AM
Well it would stand to reason that if you want to call this a theory (which it isn't, by definition) it would mean you've collected data and studied it quite a bit.

Since this is something that involves the entire planet.....I can only assume it would be rational to have observed as much of the planet as possible to observe reality versus just making stuff up.

But that's just me....being silly.

I mean you've established this "theory" in less than a month and based on the number of posts here I can only assume you've done much of your work sitting at a computer......which seems to be the exact opposite way one would come up with an idea on how the world must be shaped and how the physics work.

Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on March 30, 2015, 07:35:29 AM
Except for the experiments we've done on rats to control their consciousness using lasers and genetically modified viruses to make certain cells susceptible to said lasers.

our bodies rely on our bodies, what's your point? the mind still exists independently, the brain is a conduit which connects it to our physical bodies.
really, look up qualia, this is an expansive field of study. it's well known that purely physical phenomenon cannot be responsible for what our minds experience.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: LogicalKiller on March 30, 2015, 07:35:55 AM
I asked him once, no answer. Does it speak anything but english?

it doesn't speak in a language, as such. i interpret it as english, as that's what i speak, but it imparts meaning universally.

I know that Earth is round because of communication between gravity. You don't have to believe me, but it's true. I communicate with gravity by telepatic forces, which are coming to my brain and then are translated into Polish, because most probably gravity talks only in Polish.

not only does gravity not exist, but there is no reason to think it could be in communication with a mind. after all, gravity relies on mass, and minds do not possess mass. there is also nothing to set polish as anything universal's chosen language. you're being ridiculous.

How gravity doesn't exist? I communicated with it. As you see, I had a telepatic communication with gravity, not with aether, so aether doesn't have forces as you say, so aether doesn't exist. Gravity relies on mass, that's true. When there's an object with more mass, it has stronger gravity. My mission is to contact with soul of Sun's gravity, which is stronger than a soul of our Earth gravity. Stronger means better educated and with bigger chance to unhid a secret truth. I will show a diagram how communicating with gravity works. And yes, its language is Polish, I don't know why. I'll probably have an answer when I'll communicate with the Sun, because it's stronger.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Weatherwax on March 30, 2015, 07:36:40 AM
I asked him once, no answer. Does it speak anything but english?

it doesn't speak in a language, as such. i interpret it as english, as that's what i speak, but it imparts meaning universally.

I know that Earth is round because of communication between gravity. You don't have to believe me, but it's true. I communicate with gravity by telepatic forces, which are coming to my brain and then are translated into Polish, because most probably gravity talks only in Polish.

Idiot. Everyone knows gravity only speaks Italian.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on March 30, 2015, 07:37:04 AM
Well it would stand to reason that if you want to call this a theory (which it isn't, by definition) it would mean you've collected data and studied it quite a bit.

Since this is something that involves the entire planet.....I can only assume it would be rational to have observed as much of the planet as possible to observe reality versus just making stuff up.

But that's just me....being silly.

I mean you've established this "theory" in less than a month and based on the number of posts here I can only assume you've done much of your work sitting at a computer......which seems to be the exact opposite way one would come up with an idea on how the world must be shaped and how the physics work.

i have given the reasons i hold to this theory in this thread and over this forum multiple times, you are saying nothing new.
it is entirely possible to make deductions. it is that simple. physical travel is far less meaningful in this day and age, and there is nothing to be gained from physically examining random countries.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on March 30, 2015, 07:39:04 AM
I asked him once, no answer. Does it speak anything but english?

it doesn't speak in a language, as such. i interpret it as english, as that's what i speak, but it imparts meaning universally.

I know that Earth is round because of communication between gravity. You don't have to believe me, but it's true. I communicate with gravity by telepatic forces, which are coming to my brain and then are translated into Polish, because most probably gravity talks only in Polish.

not only does gravity not exist, but there is no reason to think it could be in communication with a mind. after all, gravity relies on mass, and minds do not possess mass. there is also nothing to set polish as anything universal's chosen language. you're being ridiculous.

How gravity doesn't exist? I communicated with it. As you see, I had a telepatic communication with gravity, not with aether, so aether doesn't have forces as you say, so aether doesn't exist. Gravity relies on mass, that's true. When there's an object with more mass, it has stronger gravity. My mission is to contact with soul of Sun's gravity, which is stronger than a soul of our Earth gravity. Stronger means better educated and with bigger chance to unhid a secret truth. I will show a diagram how communicating with gravity works. And yes, its language is Polish, I don't know why. I'll probably have an answer when I'll communicate with the Sun, because it's stronger.

this is a thread to discuss dual earth theory. if you have nothing that isn't facetious delusion to add, do not post.

you round earthers are always complaining i don't explain my theory, yet when i try to make a thread to make it easier to explain, you're first in line to try and ruin it. what's wrong with you?
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Umurweird on March 30, 2015, 07:40:27 AM
Except for the experiments we've done on rats to control their consciousness using lasers and genetically modified viruses to make certain cells susceptible to said lasers.

our bodies rely on our bodies, what's your point? the mind still exists independently, the brain is a conduit which connects it to our physical bodies.
really, look up qualia, this is an expansive field of study. it's well known that purely physical phenomenon cannot be responsible for what our minds experience.

If the mind exists independently.....why has no one ever survived a fatal gun shot wound to the brain?
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: LogicalKiller on March 30, 2015, 07:42:53 AM
I asked him once, no answer. Does it speak anything but english?

it doesn't speak in a language, as such. i interpret it as english, as that's what i speak, but it imparts meaning universally.

I know that Earth is round because of communication between gravity. You don't have to believe me, but it's true. I communicate with gravity by telepatic forces, which are coming to my brain and then are translated into Polish, because most probably gravity talks only in Polish.

not only does gravity not exist, but there is no reason to think it could be in communication with a mind. after all, gravity relies on mass, and minds do not possess mass. there is also nothing to set polish as anything universal's chosen language. you're being ridiculous.

How gravity doesn't exist? I communicated with it. As you see, I had a telepatic communication with gravity, not with aether, so aether doesn't have forces as you say, so aether doesn't exist. Gravity relies on mass, that's true. When there's an object with more mass, it has stronger gravity. My mission is to contact with soul of Sun's gravity, which is stronger than a soul of our Earth gravity. Stronger means better educated and with bigger chance to unhid a secret truth. I will show a diagram how communicating with gravity works. And yes, its language is Polish, I don't know why. I'll probably have an answer when I'll communicate with the Sun, because it's stronger.

this is a thread to discuss dual earth theory. if you have nothing that isn't facetious delusion to add, do not post.

you round earthers are always complaining i don't explain my theory, yet when i try to make a thread to make it easier to explain, you're first in line to try and ruin it. what's wrong with you?

Will you delete me from ignored list? I will post a very important and relevant topic on these fora. You have to see it.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Umurweird on March 30, 2015, 07:43:14 AM
Well it would stand to reason that if you want to call this a theory (which it isn't, by definition) it would mean you've collected data and studied it quite a bit.

Since this is something that involves the entire planet.....I can only assume it would be rational to have observed as much of the planet as possible to observe reality versus just making stuff up.

But that's just me....being silly.

I mean you've established this "theory" in less than a month and based on the number of posts here I can only assume you've done much of your work sitting at a computer......which seems to be the exact opposite way one would come up with an idea on how the world must be shaped and how the physics work.

i have given the reasons i hold to this theory in this thread and over this forum multiple times, you are saying nothing new.
it is entirely possible to make deductions. it is that simple. physical travel is far less meaningful in this day and age, and there is nothing to be gained from physically examining random countries.

I didn't say anything about examining countries.

I'm talking about examining the earth.

You talk a lot about the stars in your idea........have to physically observed them from different points on the globe?

Scepti........you accuse people of believing only what they are told all the time..........yet you want everyone here to believe you....because you're telling them?

Stop calling this a theory. You've done no experiments and have zero physical evidence. Let's call this what it is scepti.......a made up idea from a childish mind.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Misero on March 30, 2015, 07:43:35 AM
Yes, but we have the ability to control everything they do, if we target the right cells. Everything. So if the mind is not the brain, what are we controlling?
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Weatherwax on March 30, 2015, 07:45:08 AM
Question:

Of your various observations, which ones specifically suggest a dual earth is more likely than a round earth?
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on March 30, 2015, 07:47:45 AM
Except for the experiments we've done on rats to control their consciousness using lasers and genetically modified viruses to make certain cells susceptible to said lasers.

our bodies rely on our bodies, what's your point? the mind still exists independently, the brain is a conduit which connects it to our physical bodies.
really, look up qualia, this is an expansive field of study. it's well known that purely physical phenomenon cannot be responsible for what our minds experience.

If the mind exists independently.....why has no one ever survived a fatal gun shot wound to the brain?

because without the brain, the mind has no connection to the body.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on March 30, 2015, 07:49:49 AM
Well it would stand to reason that if you want to call this a theory (which it isn't, by definition) it would mean you've collected data and studied it quite a bit.

Since this is something that involves the entire planet.....I can only assume it would be rational to have observed as much of the planet as possible to observe reality versus just making stuff up.

But that's just me....being silly.

I mean you've established this "theory" in less than a month and based on the number of posts here I can only assume you've done much of your work sitting at a computer......which seems to be the exact opposite way one would come up with an idea on how the world must be shaped and how the physics work.

i have given the reasons i hold to this theory in this thread and over this forum multiple times, you are saying nothing new.
it is entirely possible to make deductions. it is that simple. physical travel is far less meaningful in this day and age, and there is nothing to be gained from physically examining random countries.

I didn't say anything about examining countries.

I'm talking about examining the earth.

You talk a lot about the stars in your idea........have to physically observed them from different points on the globe?

Scepti........you accuse people of believing only what they are told all the time..........yet you want everyone here to believe you....because you're telling them?

Stop calling this a theory. You've done no experiments and have zero physical evidence. Let's call this what it is scepti.......a made up idea from a childish mind.

i am not sceptimatic, why do you people keep saying that? i know who i am. if i already had an account, i wouldn't end up making another to start saying that the world's flat. i disagree with sceptimatic on multiple counts, and i've changed my mind. just stop saying that, ok? it's just getting annoying now.

i am relying on deduction. seriously, try to read.

if you have nothing to say that you didn't just make up on the spot, stop posting.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Misero on March 30, 2015, 07:50:27 AM
Yes, but qualia implies the brain does not control the mind, correct? But we can make decisions for the rats, make them hungry, make them eat, turn off their empathy.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Umurweird on March 30, 2015, 07:54:57 AM
Except for the experiments we've done on rats to control their consciousness using lasers and genetically modified viruses to make certain cells susceptible to said lasers.

our bodies rely on our bodies, what's your point? the mind still exists independently, the brain is a conduit which connects it to our physical bodies.
really, look up qualia, this is an expansive field of study. it's well known that purely physical phenomenon cannot be responsible for what our minds experience.

If the mind exists independently.....why has no one ever survived a fatal gun shot wound to the brain?

because without the brain, the mind has no connection to the body.

Your mind is your brain.

Prove otherwise. Please.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on March 30, 2015, 07:55:18 AM
Question:

Of your various observations, which ones specifically suggest a dual earth is more likely than a round earth?

the dual earth model requires fewer assumptions (outlined earlier in the thread), round earth theory has no explanation for aether or the non-existence of air, and doesn't justify how the sun and moon apparently work. the sun is far more round than it should be, which even scientists admit, and apparently throws material magically made non-radioactive at the earth according to people on this forum, and the moon is apparently glowing rock.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Umurweird on March 30, 2015, 07:56:21 AM
Well it would stand to reason that if you want to call this a theory (which it isn't, by definition) it would mean you've collected data and studied it quite a bit.

Since this is something that involves the entire planet.....I can only assume it would be rational to have observed as much of the planet as possible to observe reality versus just making stuff up.

But that's just me....being silly.

I mean you've established this "theory" in less than a month and based on the number of posts here I can only assume you've done much of your work sitting at a computer......which seems to be the exact opposite way one would come up with an idea on how the world must be shaped and how the physics work.

i have given the reasons i hold to this theory in this thread and over this forum multiple times, you are saying nothing new.
it is entirely possible to make deductions. it is that simple. physical travel is far less meaningful in this day and age, and there is nothing to be gained from physically examining random countries.

I didn't say anything about examining countries.

I'm talking about examining the earth.

You talk a lot about the stars in your idea........have to physically observed them from different points on the globe?

Scepti........you accuse people of believing only what they are told all the time..........yet you want everyone here to believe you....because you're telling them?

Stop calling this a theory. You've done no experiments and have zero physical evidence. Let's call this what it is scepti.......a made up idea from a childish mind.

i am not sceptimatic, why do you people keep saying that? i know who i am. if i already had an account, i wouldn't end up making another to start saying that the world's flat. i disagree with sceptimatic on multiple counts, and i've changed my mind. just stop saying that, ok? it's just getting annoying now.

i am relying on deduction. seriously, try to read.

if you have nothing to say that you didn't just make up on the spot, stop posting.

It's quite obvious you're sceptimatic. You've done a piss poor job trying to pretend you're not.

What deductions have led you to believe what you believe?

Please elaborate.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on March 30, 2015, 07:56:58 AM
Yes, but qualia implies the brain does not control the mind, correct? But we can make decisions for the rats, make them hungry, make them eat, turn off their empathy.

that's because the body requires the brain to interpret the mind. i have said this, the brain is a conduit.

umurweird, i have. look up qualia, do the slightest bit of research. no one's even addressed that.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Umurweird on March 30, 2015, 07:58:20 AM
Question:

Of your various observations, which ones specifically suggest a dual earth is more likely than a round earth?

the dual earth model requires fewer assumptions (outlined earlier in the thread), round earth theory has no explanation for aether or the non-existence of air, and doesn't justify how the sun and moon apparently work. the sun is far more round than it should be, which even scientists admit, and apparently throws material magically made non-radioactive at the earth according to people on this forum, and the moon is apparently glowing rock.

The dual earth model has many more assumptions.....aether (not provable) two suns (ridiculous) and so on.

Air does indeed exist.

Not to mention we've seen pictures of the earth from space.

Occam's razor.........the earth is spherical.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on March 30, 2015, 07:59:20 AM
Well it would stand to reason that if you want to call this a theory (which it isn't, by definition) it would mean you've collected data and studied it quite a bit.

Since this is something that involves the entire planet.....I can only assume it would be rational to have observed as much of the planet as possible to observe reality versus just making stuff up.

But that's just me....being silly.

I mean you've established this "theory" in less than a month and based on the number of posts here I can only assume you've done much of your work sitting at a computer......which seems to be the exact opposite way one would come up with an idea on how the world must be shaped and how the physics work.

i have given the reasons i hold to this theory in this thread and over this forum multiple times, you are saying nothing new.
it is entirely possible to make deductions. it is that simple. physical travel is far less meaningful in this day and age, and there is nothing to be gained from physically examining random countries.

I didn't say anything about examining countries.

I'm talking about examining the earth.

You talk a lot about the stars in your idea........have to physically observed them from different points on the globe?

Scepti........you accuse people of believing only what they are told all the time..........yet you want everyone here to believe you....because you're telling them?

Stop calling this a theory. You've done no experiments and have zero physical evidence. Let's call this what it is scepti.......a made up idea from a childish mind.

i am not sceptimatic, why do you people keep saying that? i know who i am. if i already had an account, i wouldn't end up making another to start saying that the world's flat. i disagree with sceptimatic on multiple counts, and i've changed my mind. just stop saying that, ok? it's just getting annoying now.

i am relying on deduction. seriously, try to read.

if you have nothing to say that you didn't just make up on the spot, stop posting.

It's quite obvious you're sceptimatic. You've done a piss poor job trying to pretend you're not.

What deductions have led you to believe what you believe?

Please elaborate.

that just makes you an idiot. you haven't read the thread. if you had, you'd see the answers. learn to read.
report me to the mods, if i'm sceptimatic. get them to check my ip. just stop it, ok? this is getting beyond a joke, i am tired of having my theories reduced as though i am someone else.

my theory differs greatly. how am i at all like him?

Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: LogicalKiller on March 30, 2015, 08:00:35 AM
Well it would stand to reason that if you want to call this a theory (which it isn't, by definition) it would mean you've collected data and studied it quite a bit.

Since this is something that involves the entire planet.....I can only assume it would be rational to have observed as much of the planet as possible to observe reality versus just making stuff up.

But that's just me....being silly.

I mean you've established this "theory" in less than a month and based on the number of posts here I can only assume you've done much of your work sitting at a computer......which seems to be the exact opposite way one would come up with an idea on how the world must be shaped and how the physics work.

i have given the reasons i hold to this theory in this thread and over this forum multiple times, you are saying nothing new.
it is entirely possible to make deductions. it is that simple. physical travel is far less meaningful in this day and age, and there is nothing to be gained from physically examining random countries.

I didn't say anything about examining countries.

I'm talking about examining the earth.

You talk a lot about the stars in your idea........have to physically observed them from different points on the globe?

Scepti........you accuse people of believing only what they are told all the time..........yet you want everyone here to believe you....because you're telling them?

Stop calling this a theory. You've done no experiments and have zero physical evidence. Let's call this what it is scepti.......a made up idea from a childish mind.

i am not sceptimatic, why do you people keep saying that? i know who i am. if i already had an account, i wouldn't end up making another to start saying that the world's flat. i disagree with sceptimatic on multiple counts, and i've changed my mind. just stop saying that, ok? it's just getting annoying now.

i am relying on deduction. seriously, try to read.

if you have nothing to say that you didn't just make up on the spot, stop posting.

It's quite obvious you're sceptimatic. You've done a piss poor job trying to pretend you're not.

What deductions have led you to believe what you believe?

Please elaborate.

that just makes you an idiot. you haven't read the thread. if you had, you'd see the answers. learn to read.
report me to the mods, if i'm sceptimatic. get them to check my ip. just stop it, ok? this is getting beyond a joke, i am tired of having my theories reduced as though i am someone else.

my theory differs greatly. how am i at all like him?



Personal attack, mute.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Umurweird on March 30, 2015, 08:01:02 AM
Yes, but qualia implies the brain does not control the mind, correct? But we can make decisions for the rats, make them hungry, make them eat, turn off their empathy.

that's because the body requires the brain to interpret the mind. i have said this, the brain is a conduit.

umurweird, i have. look up qualia, do the slightest bit of research. no one's even addressed that.

I learned about qualia while studying philosophy at the university around 25 years ago scepti.

Thanks.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on March 30, 2015, 08:01:40 AM
Question:

Of your various observations, which ones specifically suggest a dual earth is more likely than a round earth?

the dual earth model requires fewer assumptions (outlined earlier in the thread), round earth theory has no explanation for aether or the non-existence of air, and doesn't justify how the sun and moon apparently work. the sun is far more round than it should be, which even scientists admit, and apparently throws material magically made non-radioactive at the earth according to people on this forum, and the moon is apparently glowing rock.

The dual earth model has many more assumptions.....aether (not provable) two suns (ridiculous) and so on.

Air does indeed exist.

Not to mention we've seen pictures of the earth from space.

Occam's razor.........the earth is spherical.

learn to read. you are adding nothing new, you are repeating utter bs.

aether is space, in my model. space exists. that is one example of why what your'e saying is tired old bs. just stop posting until you have the slightest inkling of what it is you're talking about.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on March 30, 2015, 08:02:28 AM
Yes, but qualia implies the brain does not control the mind, correct? But we can make decisions for the rats, make them hungry, make them eat, turn off their empathy.

that's because the body requires the brain to interpret the mind. i have said this, the brain is a conduit.

umurweird, i have. look up qualia, do the slightest bit of research. no one's even addressed that.

I learned about qualia while studying philosophy at the university around 25 years ago scepti.

Thanks.

then you'd know your question has been answered.
go fuck yourself.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Umurweird on March 30, 2015, 08:03:34 AM
Quote
that just makes you an idiot. you haven't read the thread. if you had, you'd see the answers. learn to read.
report me to the mods, if i'm sceptimatic. get them to check my ip. just stop it, ok? this is getting beyond a joke, i am tired of having my theories reduced as though i am someone else.

my theory differs greatly. how am i at all like him?

Again, you don't have a theory. You have a made up idea.

And.....it's real simple actually. You ran your ice dome idea into the ground along with den pressure and everything else so had to move on to something new.

And now you're running this into the ground and getting proved wrong on everything.

Your ideas are being reduced because they don't add up. At all.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Misero on March 30, 2015, 08:03:41 AM
There are no spirits, there are no ghosts, there are no demons. If I can control the mind from the brain, then the mind is the brain, as it does not exist without it.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Misero on March 30, 2015, 08:04:50 AM
Can we get some mods over here? I would report, though I imagine it doesn't work, spamming the inbox of a mod.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on March 30, 2015, 08:05:32 AM
Quote
that just makes you an idiot. you haven't read the thread. if you had, you'd see the answers. learn to read.
report me to the mods, if i'm sceptimatic. get them to check my ip. just stop it, ok? this is getting beyond a joke, i am tired of having my theories reduced as though i am someone else.

my theory differs greatly. how am i at all like him?

Again, you don't have a theory. You have a made up idea.

And.....it's real simple actually. You ran your ice dome idea into the ground along with den pressure and everything else so had to move on to something new.

And now you're running this into the ground and getting proved wrong on everything.

Your ideas are being reduced because they don't add up. At all.

i am happy to change my mind. i have done so. if you have nothing of any substance to add, stop posting. i am sick of you.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Umurweird on March 30, 2015, 08:05:43 AM
Yes, but qualia implies the brain does not control the mind, correct? But we can make decisions for the rats, make them hungry, make them eat, turn off their empathy.

that's because the body requires the brain to interpret the mind. i have said this, the brain is a conduit.

umurweird, i have. look up qualia, do the slightest bit of research. no one's even addressed that.

I learned about qualia while studying philosophy at the university around 25 years ago scepti.

Thanks.

then you'd know your question has been answered.
go fuck yourself.

Qualia is philosophy, not science. And it deals with the conscious and the way things SEEM to be.

It's not what you're making it.

And.....that just isn't polite. You should be ashamed.

Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on March 30, 2015, 08:06:18 AM
There are no spirits, there are no ghosts, there are no demons. If I can control the mind from the brain, then the mind is the brain, as it does not exist without it.

try to actually address the points i've made rather than making shit up.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Umurweird on March 30, 2015, 08:07:22 AM
Quote
i am happy to change my mind. i have done so. if you have nothing of any substance to add, stop posting. i am sick of you.

I have plenty of substance to add. I'm questioning your logic and the way you came about your idea.

I'm sorry you're sick of me but as a member of this forum I have a right to post, just as you do.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Umurweird on March 30, 2015, 08:09:06 AM
Quote
aether is space, in my model. space exists. that is one example of why what your'e saying is tired old bs. just stop posting until you have the slightest inkling of what it is you're talking about.

I get that.

But you're saying air is an assumption in round earth reality.

But you are going to claim aether isn't an assumption?

To do that....you need to show proof of aether. I'll wait while you do that........
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on March 30, 2015, 08:09:53 AM
Yes, but qualia implies the brain does not control the mind, correct? But we can make decisions for the rats, make them hungry, make them eat, turn off their empathy.

that's because the body requires the brain to interpret the mind. i have said this, the brain is a conduit.

umurweird, i have. look up qualia, do the slightest bit of research. no one's even addressed that.

I learned about qualia while studying philosophy at the university around 25 years ago scepti.

Thanks.

then you'd know your question has been answered.
go fuck yourself.

Qualia is philosophy, not science. And it deals with the conscious and the way things SEEM to be.

It's not what you're making it.

And.....that just isn't polite. You should be ashamed.

philosophy (in this case) is deduction based on observation. that's science, it's just focused on different topics. no one has even begun to address how qualia could exist with a material mind, despite being repeatedly asked. notice that.

what isn't polite is you repeatedly ignoring me and trying to ignore my theories based on your pretense that i am someone else, and constantly doing it just because you know it annoys me. i am entirely justified in telling you to go fuck yourself, and i'll do it again.
go fuck yourself, asshole.

you aren't saying anything. you're asking for evidence that space exists now, and you've ignored every piece of evidence i have offered in the course of this thread. you're a waste of time.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: LogicalKiller on March 30, 2015, 08:17:03 AM
There are no spirits, there are no ghosts, there are no demons. If I can control the mind from the brain, then the mind is the brain, as it does not exist without it.

try to actually address the points i've made rather than making shit up.

LOW CONTENT SWEARING! BAN HIM, PLEASE!

Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Umurweird on March 30, 2015, 08:17:59 AM
Quote
philosophy (in this case) is deduction based on observation. that's science, it's just focused on different topics. no one has even begun to address how qualia could exist with a material mind, despite being repeatedly asked. notice that.

what isn't polite is you repeatedly ignoring me and trying to ignore my theories based on your pretense that i am someone else, and constantly doing it just because you know it annoys me. i am entirely justified in telling you to go fuck yourself, and i'll do it again.
go fuck yourself, asshole.

you aren't saying anything. you're asking for evidence that space exists now, and you've ignored every piece of evidence i have offered in the course of this thread. you're a waste of time.

Philosophy is a thought system based on investigation and study. It's not science.

Qualia has been studied and discussed for a very long time.

Even Schrodinger wrote about it.

All it really is........is a way to explain the way things seem to be.

I'm not ignoring you. I'm arguing against you. And doing quite well apparently because you are rather annoyed at this point.

You claim air doesn't exist, but aether does.

You claim air is an assumption and aether isn't.

I'd simply like some proof. Not asking for much here.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on March 30, 2015, 10:58:38 AM
Quote
philosophy (in this case) is deduction based on observation. that's science, it's just focused on different topics. no one has even begun to address how qualia could exist with a material mind, despite being repeatedly asked. notice that.

what isn't polite is you repeatedly ignoring me and trying to ignore my theories based on your pretense that i am someone else, and constantly doing it just because you know it annoys me. i am entirely justified in telling you to go fuck yourself, and i'll do it again.
go fuck yourself, asshole.

you aren't saying anything. you're asking for evidence that space exists now, and you've ignored every piece of evidence i have offered in the course of this thread. you're a waste of time.

Philosophy is a thought system based on investigation and study. It's not science.

Qualia has been studied and discussed for a very long time.

Even Schrodinger wrote about it.

All it really is........is a way to explain the way things seem to be.

I'm not ignoring you. I'm arguing against you. And doing quite well apparently because you are rather annoyed at this point.

You claim air doesn't exist, but aether does.

You claim air is an assumption and aether isn't.

I'd simply like some proof. Not asking for much here.

you aren't arguing against a word i've said. you're saying "qualia doesn't count!" without expressing any reason why the reasoning behind it is invalid. you then completely ignore everything i have said about aether.
aether is space. i rely only on the properties we know space to possess, for every use of aether. if you ask for proof of aether, you are asking for proof of space. you are making me repeat myself yet again. please for once read the posts you're responding to, i am sick of your illiteracy. you're just pathetic if you think making me repeat myself means you've somehow won the argument. i'll repeat myself again, to see if it sinks in. the aether is space. they are one and the same.
are you saying space does not exist?
if you are, you're an idiot. if you are not, then my aether exists. it is that simple. do you feel like engaging your brain for once and reading?!
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Umurweird on March 30, 2015, 11:40:08 AM
Quote
you aren't arguing against a word i've said. you're saying "qualia doesn't count!" without expressing any reason why the reasoning behind it is invalid. you then completely ignore everything i have said about aether.
aether is space. i rely only on the properties we know space to possess, for every use of aether. if you ask for proof of aether, you are asking for proof of space. you are making me repeat myself yet again. please for once read the posts you're responding to, i am sick of your illiteracy. you're just pathetic if you think making me repeat myself means you've somehow won the argument. i'll repeat myself again, to see if it sinks in. the aether is space. they are one and the same.
are you saying space does not exist?
if you are, you're an idiot. if you are not, then my aether exists. it is that simple. do you feel like engaging your brain for once and reading?!

Not saying qualia doesn't count. I'm saying it's not what you think it is.

You're saying qualia is proof the mind is seperate from the brain. Problem is.....that's not what qualia is.

Not ignoring anything you say about aether. I'm disagreeing with you. There's a difference.

You claim aether is space and air doesn't exist. I disagree and I am questioning your methods on how you reached your opinion.

Instead of backing up your claims.......you're holding your breath and stomping your feet like a child.

I'm asking for proof or any kind of evidence that air doesn't exist but aether does. Can you or can you not provide it?

Space definitely exists. But that doesn't mean aether does.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on March 30, 2015, 12:04:43 PM
Quote
you aren't arguing against a word i've said. you're saying "qualia doesn't count!" without expressing any reason why the reasoning behind it is invalid. you then completely ignore everything i have said about aether.
aether is space. i rely only on the properties we know space to possess, for every use of aether. if you ask for proof of aether, you are asking for proof of space. you are making me repeat myself yet again. please for once read the posts you're responding to, i am sick of your illiteracy. you're just pathetic if you think making me repeat myself means you've somehow won the argument. i'll repeat myself again, to see if it sinks in. the aether is space. they are one and the same.
are you saying space does not exist?
if you are, you're an idiot. if you are not, then my aether exists. it is that simple. do you feel like engaging your brain for once and reading?!

Not saying qualia doesn't count. I'm saying it's not what you think it is.

You're saying qualia is proof the mind is seperate from the brain. Problem is.....that's not what qualia is.

Not ignoring anything you say about aether. I'm disagreeing with you. There's a difference.

You claim aether is space and air doesn't exist. I disagree and I am questioning your methods on how you reached your opinion.

Instead of backing up your claims.......you're holding your breath and stomping your feet like a child.

I'm asking for proof or any kind of evidence that air doesn't exist but aether does. Can you or can you not provide it?

Space definitely exists. But that doesn't mean aether does.

that is exactly what qualia is. you've yet to provide anything that isn't assertion. qualia is what we experience, that cannot be explained by a purely material mind. we clearly experience it, so our minds cannot be physical. asserting otherwise is idiotic.

"Space definitely exists. But that doesn't mean aether does."
yes. it. does.
once again, SPACE IS HOW I DEFINE AETHER. THEY ARE ONE AND THE SAME IN MY MODEL. LEARN TO READ.
you are being patently foolish. i have said this multiple times. aether is not some separate substance, it is space. space is aether. they are one and the fucking same. how many times do i have to repeat myself before you pay attention?!
stop forcing some separate other definition onto me. i am not saying aether is some magical separate substance, i am saying it is space. they are the same thing. i have said this several times. stop being an idiot, READ.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: LogicalKiller on March 30, 2015, 12:13:58 PM
Quote
you aren't arguing against a word i've said. you're saying "qualia doesn't count!" without expressing any reason why the reasoning behind it is invalid. you then completely ignore everything i have said about aether.
aether is space. i rely only on the properties we know space to possess, for every use of aether. if you ask for proof of aether, you are asking for proof of space. you are making me repeat myself yet again. please for once read the posts you're responding to, i am sick of your illiteracy. you're just pathetic if you think making me repeat myself means you've somehow won the argument. i'll repeat myself again, to see if it sinks in. the aether is space. they are one and the same.
are you saying space does not exist?
if you are, you're an idiot. if you are not, then my aether exists. it is that simple. do you feel like engaging your brain for once and reading?!

Not saying qualia doesn't count. I'm saying it's not what you think it is.

You're saying qualia is proof the mind is seperate from the brain. Problem is.....that's not what qualia is.

Not ignoring anything you say about aether. I'm disagreeing with you. There's a difference.

You claim aether is space and air doesn't exist. I disagree and I am questioning your methods on how you reached your opinion.

Instead of backing up your claims.......you're holding your breath and stomping your feet like a child.

I'm asking for proof or any kind of evidence that air doesn't exist but aether does. Can you or can you not provide it?

Space definitely exists. But that doesn't mean aether does.

that is exactly what qualia is. you've yet to provide anything that isn't assertion. qualia is what we experience, that cannot be explained by a purely material mind. we clearly experience it, so our minds cannot be physical. asserting otherwise is idiotic.

"Space definitely exists. But that doesn't mean aether does."
yes. it. does.
once again, SPACE IS HOW I DEFINE AETHER. THEY ARE ONE AND THE SAME IN MY MODEL. LEARN TO READ.
you are being patently foolish. i have said this multiple times. aether is not some separate substance, it is space. space is aether. they are one and the fucking same. how many times do i have to repeat myself before you pay attention?!
stop forcing some separate other definition onto me. i am not saying aether is some magical separate substance, i am saying it is space. they are the same thing. i have said this several times. stop being an idiot, READ.

If you moderators won't ban JRowe, then that must mean you're biased. JRowe can post naughty comments and doesn't get banned and we do.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Umurweird on March 30, 2015, 12:16:48 PM
Quote
that is exactly what qualia is. you've yet to provide anything that isn't assertion. qualia is what we experience, that cannot be explained by a purely material mind. we clearly experience it, so our minds cannot be physical. asserting otherwise is idiotic.

Qualia is sensory.

It's smelling roses when no roses are near you. Or having the smell of roses trigger a memory.

That doesn't mean your mind is separate from your brain. Which is what you're trying to use it as.

Quote
"Space definitely exists. But that doesn't mean aether does."
yes. it. does.

No, it doesn't.

Quote
once again, SPACE IS HOW I DEFINE AETHER. THEY ARE ONE AND THE SAME IN MY MODEL. LEARN TO READ.

I can read just fine. What I'm telling you is......you're wrong.

Saying space is aether doesn't make space aether. I can say space is actually made of invisible floating chocolate particles....and create a model for it but that wouldn't make it a fact.

Quote
you are being patently foolish. i have said this multiple times. aether is not some separate substance, it is space. space is aether. they are one and the fucking same. how many times do i have to repeat myself before you pay attention?!
stop forcing some separate other definition onto me. i am not saying aether is some magical separate substance, i am saying it is space. they are the same thing. i have said this several times. stop being an idiot, READ.

You are being deliberately stupid.

You can repeat yourself a million times....space is aether....fine, but how does that make it true?

I'm asking for some evidence. Some proof. Maybe an explanation of your observations you talk about.

Your only reply is to say........space is aether. Like I'm supposed to just accept it.

I don't. No one does.

I've read everything....I'm seeking better explanations. You've stated your idea....now explain it.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on March 30, 2015, 12:33:48 PM
Quote
that is exactly what qualia is. you've yet to provide anything that isn't assertion. qualia is what we experience, that cannot be explained by a purely material mind. we clearly experience it, so our minds cannot be physical. asserting otherwise is idiotic.

Qualia is sensory.

It's smelling roses when no roses are near you. Or having the smell of roses trigger a memory.

That doesn't mean your mind is separate from your brain. Which is what you're trying to use it as.

Quote
"Space definitely exists. But that doesn't mean aether does."
yes. it. does.

No, it doesn't.

Quote
once again, SPACE IS HOW I DEFINE AETHER. THEY ARE ONE AND THE SAME IN MY MODEL. LEARN TO READ.

I can read just fine. What I'm telling you is......you're wrong.

Saying space is aether doesn't make space aether. I can say space is actually made of invisible floating chocolate particles....and create a model for it but that wouldn't make it a fact.

Quote
you are being patently foolish. i have said this multiple times. aether is not some separate substance, it is space. space is aether. they are one and the fucking same. how many times do i have to repeat myself before you pay attention?!
stop forcing some separate other definition onto me. i am not saying aether is some magical separate substance, i am saying it is space. they are the same thing. i have said this several times. stop being an idiot, READ.

You are being deliberately stupid.

You can repeat yourself a million times....space is aether....fine, but how does that make it true?

I'm asking for some evidence. Some proof. Maybe an explanation of your observations you talk about.

Your only reply is to say........space is aether. Like I'm supposed to just accept it.

I don't. No one does.

I've read everything....I'm seeking better explanations. You've stated your idea....now explain it.

qualia is subjective experiences, which cannot be had by  material mind.

i don't understand what's wrong with you.
I AM DEFINING AETHER. MY DEFINITION OF AETHER IS THAT IT. IS. SPACE. yet again, i am NOT saying that tehre is a separate substance called aether, i am saying when i refer to aether, I AM REFERRING TO SPACE
THEY ARE THE SAME THING IN MY MODEL
i am not wrong, because i am outlining my theory, and in my theory the role of aether is filled by space. they are the same thing. i have said this several times, i am not saying aether is something separate to space. i am saying it is space. i am saying they are the same thing. i am not saying aether is some magical substance, i am saying that when i refer to it, i mean space.
you are being blind. LEARN TO READ. this is not a matter of evidence or proof, this is a matter of defining. my definition of aether is space. this is not something that needs proof, because it is a definition. you're asking me to defend word choice. i use the term aether because its relevance to flat earth theory is well known, and it fills the same role.
i in my model, IT IS SPACE. SPACE IS AETHER. THEY ARE THE SAME THING. THIS IS A DEFINITION.

accept it or not, i don't care, you're too stupid to understand anything apparently. i explicitly said aether is not a separate substance.
you know what space is, right? even in your worldview. space is space. in my model, i refer to it as aether. it is that simple.
what part of this are you struggling to understand?! I AM NOT SAYING AETHER IS SOME MAGIC SPECIAL CHOCOLATE PARTICLE SUBSTANCE THAT COMPSOES SPACE. I AM DEFINING IT TO BE SYNONYMOUS WITH SPACE.

stop being a blind fool and FUCKING READ.

i will swear as much as i want when i am being purposefully antagonized by idiots. there is no way anyone can be this stupid. AETHER IS NOT ANYTHING BEYOND SPACE. IT HAS NO TRAITS THAT SPACE DOES NOT HAVE. IT HAS EXCLUSIVELY THE TRAITS THAT SPACE HAS. IT. IS. SPACE. THE END.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Misero on March 30, 2015, 12:34:40 PM
We've broken JRowe, guys.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on March 30, 2015, 12:36:19 PM
We've broken JRowe, guys.

repeatedly acting like an idiot is irritating. who knew?
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Umurweird on March 30, 2015, 12:43:00 PM
Quote
qualia is subjective experiences, which cannot be had by  material mind.

Not true.

Not even close to be honest.

Quote
I AM DEFINING AETHER. MY DEFINITION OF AETHER IS THAT IT. IS. SPACE. yet again, i am NOT saying that tehre is a separate substance called aether, i am saying when i refer to aether, I AM REFERRING TO SPACE
THEY ARE THE SAME THING IN MY MODEL

I understand that's what you're saying it is. I'm not arguing that you say aether is space.

I'm saying you're wrong and asking for a better explanation than simply....aether is space.

Can you back up your words with substance or not?

Quote
this is not a matter of evidence or proof, this is a matter of defining.

The definition means nothing with evidence or proof.

I can say that water is actually tiny bits of alien piss that fell from the sky and define it as such.......but unless I can back it up it's hollow.

You can't call your idea a theory and then not be able to back it up at all.

Quote
accept it or not, i don't care, you're too stupid to understand anything apparently. i explicitly said aether is not a separate substance.

I have never once accused you of saying it's a separate substance. So I don't under your argument?

Quote
you know what space is, right? even in your worldview. space is space. in my model, i refer to it as aether. it is that simple.
what part of this are you struggling to understand?! I AM NOT SAYING AETHER IS SOME MAGIC SPECIAL CHOCOLATE PARTICLE SUBSTANCE THAT COMPSOES SPACE. I AM DEFINING IT TO BE SYNONYMOUS WITH SPACE.

And you're also saying air doesn't exist. And aether replaces air.

So........please elaborate on how you came to that opinion.

That's what I am asking.

Quote
i will swear as much as i want when i am being purposefully antagonized by idiots. there is no way anyone can be this stupid. AETHER IS NOT ANYTHING BEYOND SPACE. IT HAS NO TRAITS THAT SPACE DOES NOT HAVE. IT HAS EXCLUSIVELY THE TRAITS THAT SPACE HAS. IT. IS. SPACE. THE END.

Okay. When you're over the childish temper tantrum can you further elaborate.

Aether is space. Fine.

What observations have led you to this.......that is all I'm asking.

You created a thread that is allowing people to ask you questions about your idea.....yet you don't seem willing to answer.

You're weird scepti.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Umurweird on March 30, 2015, 12:43:42 PM
We've broken JRowe, guys.

repeatedly acting like an idiot is irritating. who knew?

Anyone that questions your logic is an idiot to you.

You can't back up your ideas and you get angry when you're asked to.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on March 30, 2015, 12:47:10 PM
Quote
qualia is subjective experiences, which cannot be had by  material mind.

Not true.

Not even close to be honest.

Quote
I AM DEFINING AETHER. MY DEFINITION OF AETHER IS THAT IT. IS. SPACE. yet again, i am NOT saying that tehre is a separate substance called aether, i am saying when i refer to aether, I AM REFERRING TO SPACE
THEY ARE THE SAME THING IN MY MODEL

I understand that's what you're saying it is. I'm not arguing that you say aether is space.

I'm saying you're wrong and asking for a better explanation than simply....aether is space.

Can you back up your words with substance or not?

Quote
this is not a matter of evidence or proof, this is a matter of defining.

The definition means nothing with evidence or proof.

I can say that water is actually tiny bits of alien piss that fell from the sky and define it as such.......but unless I can back it up it's hollow.

You can't call your idea a theory and then not be able to back it up at all.

Quote
accept it or not, i don't care, you're too stupid to understand anything apparently. i explicitly said aether is not a separate substance.

I have never once accused you of saying it's a separate substance. So I don't under your argument?

Quote
you know what space is, right? even in your worldview. space is space. in my model, i refer to it as aether. it is that simple.
what part of this are you struggling to understand?! I AM NOT SAYING AETHER IS SOME MAGIC SPECIAL CHOCOLATE PARTICLE SUBSTANCE THAT COMPSOES SPACE. I AM DEFINING IT TO BE SYNONYMOUS WITH SPACE.

And you're also saying air doesn't exist. And aether replaces air.

So........please elaborate on how you came to that opinion.

That's what I am asking.

Quote
i will swear as much as i want when i am being purposefully antagonized by idiots. there is no way anyone can be this stupid. AETHER IS NOT ANYTHING BEYOND SPACE. IT HAS NO TRAITS THAT SPACE DOES NOT HAVE. IT HAS EXCLUSIVELY THE TRAITS THAT SPACE HAS. IT. IS. SPACE. THE END.

Okay. When you're over the childish temper tantrum can you further elaborate.

Aether is space. Fine.

What observations have led you to this.......that is all I'm asking.

You created a thread that is allowing people to ask you questions about your idea.....yet you don't seem willing to answer.

You're weird scepti.

go fuck yourself. honestly. you offer nothing except assertion when it comes to qualia, and then demand bs.

you know h2o? i say that's not water.
that is what you're saying to me. i have answered your question, you're being a moron.
if aether is not a separate substance to space, then it is space. it is exactly space. if it makes you happy, replace every time i mentioned 'aether' with the word 'space'. THEY ARE THE SAME THING. I HAVE SAID THIS SEVERAL TIMES.
this is not a temper tantrum, this is frustration with a supremely thick moron.
AND I AM NOT FUCKING SCEPTI GET A LIFE AND SHUT THE FUCK UP I AM SICK OF YOU

does it make you feel clever to just antagonize and offer nothing?
please provide evidence that h2o is water. otherwise i will ignore you, because you are offering NOTHING to this conversation.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on March 30, 2015, 12:48:37 PM
We've broken JRowe, guys.

repeatedly acting like an idiot is irritating. who knew?

Anyone that questions your logic is an idiot to you.

You can't back up your ideas and you get angry when you're asked to.

WHAT IS IT THAT YOU WOULD LIKE ME TO BACK UP YOU ILLITERATE MORON? I HAVE GIVEN YOU THE DEFINITION UNDER MY MODEL AND YOU ARE REJECTING IT BECAUSE YOU DON'T LIKE THE WORD.
I AM STILL WAITING FOR YOU TO GIVE ANYTHING THAT ISN'T ASSERTION FOR YOUR VIEWS ON QUALIA
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Misero on March 30, 2015, 12:49:43 PM
I can define unicorns, do they exist?
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on March 30, 2015, 12:51:44 PM
I can define unicorns, do they exist?

what the hell are you talking about?!
i am defining aether to be something that we know exists. it is a word choice.
please prove h2o is water. that's what you're asking. THEY ARE THE SAME THING. THERE IS NOTHING THAT AETHER IS THAT SPACE IS NOT. THEY ARE THE SAME.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Misero on March 30, 2015, 12:55:22 PM
Why can aether move things and send notions to someone's mind if it is not particles(matter, or any variant of it), if it is just space?
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on March 30, 2015, 12:59:06 PM
Why can aether move things and send notions to someone's mind if it is not particles(matter, or any variant of it), if it is just space?

of course space moves things, movement depends on space. that's basic.
the communication is not relevant to dual earth theory, it is a personal belief. (the mind is not matter or particles either, however).
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Umurweird on March 30, 2015, 01:00:37 PM
Quote
go fuck yourself. honestly.

I'd rather not, honestly.

Quote
you know h2o? i say that's not water.

That's fine.

Now tell me why.

Quote
if aether is not a separate substance to space, then it is space. it is exactly space. if it makes you happy, replace every time i mentioned 'aether' with the word 'space'. THEY ARE THE SAME THING. I HAVE SAID THIS SEVERAL TIMES.

Yet you never explain why.

It's like saying the moon is cheese but not saying how you came to that conclusion.

No amount of unnecessary capital letters and profanity will make you correct.

Quote
this is not a temper tantrum, this is frustration with a supremely thick moron.
AND I AM NOT FUCKING SCEPTI GET A LIFE AND SHUT THE FUCK UP I AM SICK OF YOU

Are you mad?

Quote
does it make you feel clever to just antagonize and offer nothing?
please provide evidence that h2o is water. otherwise i will ignore you, because you are offering NOTHING to this conversation.

2 parts hydrogen and 1 part oxygen makes h2o.....what we call water. It's a transparent liquid, vapor, or solid. It covers 71% percent of the globe.

Now prove me wrong.

Ignore me if you must....I just find it odd you can't answer simple questions about this idea you like to call a theory.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Mikey T. on March 30, 2015, 01:03:47 PM
Sorry if you answered any of these questions, but I didn't read this entire thread yet.
So for the accepted view of reality we have certain basic forces.  There are some theories that may put gravity as an extension of the electromagnetic force but for this we will assume gravity as its own separate force.
The accepted theories have for some time been converging to a point of an unified theory.  To illustrate this I will just use the formation of certain elements on the periodic table so in essence tying the basics of the building blocks chemistry to gravity.
So the amount of pressure and heat involved to transform one element into a heavier one requires fusion.  The current big bang theory did not actually create anything other than hydrogen, helium and possibly lithium.  To form heavier elements we needed gravity to compact the atoms enough to fuse nuclei (fusion).  This fusion powers stars.  But stars alone do not have enough density to create heavier elements beyond iron.  This requires supernova blasts.  The theory has been mathematically checked many times over by thousands of different scientists. 
My first question is, if there is no gravity how do we form new elements, also why do the numbers of elements detected so far back up the theory of gravity since the higher in density an element is, the less prevalent it occurs in nature? 
Second question is that gravity explains the motions of the planets until you get into the very large structures like galaxies and clusters of galaxies where there is a need for more, so far unseen, matter.  If I can look through a telescope and follow the orbit of, say Jupiter, does it match with gravitational calculations, is there any explanation of planet movement that can predict movements like gravity? 
Third question, Since no other suitable explanations for satellites for communication are available.  I know there is a stratellite conversation going on, but the sheer number satellites in orbit that are being used and can be verified using a cellphone application to locate them, a telescope to possibly view the location, and a satellite receiver antenna to verify the direction of the signal precludes the stratellites existence.  How do satellites work if there is no gravity or space program to put them there?

These are the first few questions I have for now.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Umurweird on March 30, 2015, 01:04:13 PM
Quote
WHAT IS IT THAT YOU WOULD LIKE ME TO BACK UP YOU ILLITERATE MORON? I HAVE GIVEN YOU THE DEFINITION UNDER MY MODEL AND YOU ARE REJECTING IT BECAUSE YOU DON'T LIKE THE WORD.
I AM STILL WAITING FOR YOU TO GIVE ANYTHING THAT ISN'T ASSERTION FOR YOUR VIEWS ON QUALIA

Do you think using larger capital letters somehow makes a difference.

Giving a definition isn't giving evidence.

I can define what a blantofarnaceous is. In my model.....it's a giant creature that eats children. Me defining it doesn't make a blantofarnaceous real.

I'm not rejecting your idea because I don't like the word aether. I'm saying you're wrong.....because you're wrong. Air actually does exist. And the earth is an oblate spheroid.

I didn't make assertations on qualia. I actually told you what qualia is.

You are saying qualia proves the mind is separate from the brain. But that is not what qualia is and you have yet to say anything that proves it.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on March 30, 2015, 01:06:39 PM
2 parts hydrogen and 1 part oxygen makes h2o.....what we call water.

EXACTLY. WELL DONE.

space is what i call aether, in the same way. can you get that through your thick little head yet? you are being pathetic. i am not saying the moon is made of cheese. if anything, i am saying the moon is made out of moonanium, where moonanium is defined to be the substance that makes up the moon. I AM DEFINING AETHER TO BE SPACE. I AM SAYING NOTHING ABOUT AETHER WHATSOEVER EXCEPT THAT IT IS SYNONYMOUS WITH SPACE
JUST FUCKING READ
when i refer to aether, mentally replace it with the word 'space'. happy? it works just fine. that's what i'm saying.
defining something does't make it real. however, space is real.

and this is why i'm now going to ignore you, unless you can actually say something of value. you aren't making any kind of profound argument, you're complaining about my word choice. that's pathetic.

you offer nothing beyond assertion. goodbye.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on March 30, 2015, 01:10:27 PM
Sorry if you answered any of these questions, but I didn't read this entire thread yet.
So for the accepted view of reality we have certain basic forces.  There are some theories that may put gravity as an extension of the electromagnetic force but for this we will assume gravity as its own separate force.
The accepted theories have for some time been converging to a point of an unified theory.  To illustrate this I will just use the formation of certain elements on the periodic table so in essence tying the basics of the building blocks chemistry to gravity.
So the amount of pressure and heat involved to transform one element into a heavier one requires fusion.  The current big bang theory did not actually create anything other than hydrogen, helium and possibly lithium.  To form heavier elements we needed gravity to compact the atoms enough to fuse nuclei (fusion).  This fusion powers stars.  But stars alone do not have enough density to create heavier elements beyond iron.  This requires supernova blasts.  The theory has been mathematically checked many times over by thousands of different scientists. 
My first question is, if there is no gravity how do we form new elements, also why do the numbers of elements detected so far back up the theory of gravity since the higher in density an element is, the less prevalent it occurs in nature? 
Second question is that gravity explains the motions of the planets until you get into the very large structures like galaxies and clusters of galaxies where there is a need for more, so far unseen, matter.  If I can look through a telescope and follow the orbit of, say Jupiter, does it match with gravitational calculations, is there any explanation of planet movement that can predict movements like gravity? 
Third question, Since no other suitable explanations for satellites for communication are available.  I know there is a stratellite conversation going on, but the sheer number satellites in orbit that are being used and can be verified using a cellphone application to locate them, a telescope to possibly view the location, and a satellite receiver antenna to verify the direction of the signal precludes the stratellites existence.  How do satellites work if there is no gravity or space program to put them there?

These are the first few questions I have for now.

matter comes from aether, it is essentially solid aether: a different state. aether tends to group together: it's a principle that governs all things, it flows from high concentrations to low. sufficiently high concentrations would essentially form matter. that's where it comes from. elements could come from a similar process: clearly the far denser matter would be rarer.
gravity was a theory that came about based on observation of the world. they simply assigned the wrong explanation. gravity is the force of aether flowing into the low-density, thinner terrestrial aether: aether is also that which is responsible for the movements of the planets. it's no surprise the movements are similar.
satellite questions are answered by general flat earth theory in a way that fits in fine with dual earth theory, there's no need for me to add anything to the usual answer.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Umurweird on March 30, 2015, 01:11:47 PM
The difference is....rather than just calling h20 water.....someone once upon time actually investigated water and learned that it's atoms were 2 parts hydrogen wrapped around 1 water atom.

This is different than simply going on the internet and saying....aether is space. And doing nothing else.


I'm seriously beginning to think you might be angry at me for some reason.

Quote
when i refer to aether, mentally replace it with the word 'space'. happy? it works just fine. that's what i'm saying.

But you also assume air doesn't exist. And I'm asking why?

And you still haven't even attempted to answer.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Umurweird on March 30, 2015, 01:13:36 PM
If aether is what makes the planets move....

What causes smaller objects to generally become satellites to larger objects. Like the earth moving around the sun and the moon around the earth and so on?

Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on March 30, 2015, 01:15:08 PM
The difference is....rather than just calling h20 water.....someone once upon time actually investigated water and learned that it's atoms were 2 parts hydrogen wrapped around 1 water atom.

This is different than simply going on the internet and saying....aether is space. And doing nothing else.


I'm seriously beginning to think you might be angry at me for some reason.

Quote
when i refer to aether, mentally replace it with the word 'space'. happy? it works just fine. that's what i'm saying.

But you also assume air doesn't exist. And I'm asking why?

And you still haven't even attempted to answer.

yes, i am angry at you because you're being a fool. h2o is water because we have defined the substance with two hydrogens and one oxygen to be water. i have defined what we observe as space to be aether. this is a definition, it is not claiming any traits. again, replace any time i mention 'aether' with the word 'space' if it makes you happy. they are the same thing.
i am not wasting any more time on you. clearly you don't read, you cling to the same bs arguments just to antagonize, and it's pathetic.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on March 30, 2015, 01:16:17 PM
If aether is what makes the planets move....

What causes smaller objects to generally become satellites to larger objects. Like the earth moving around the sun and the moon around the earth and so on?

do you know ANYTHING about ANY flat earth theory? everything you've just said is wrong.

my model thread also explains it, IF YOU COULD BE BOTHERED TO READ A WORD I'VE FUCKING SAID. there's even a diagram for your moronic mind.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Mikey T. on March 30, 2015, 01:20:48 PM
satellite questions are answered by general flat earth theory in a way that fits in fine with dual earth theory, there's no need for me to add anything to the usual answer.

Actually, the satellite questions are really not answered by the flat Earth concept.  They are simply dismissed as not being real.  The problem here is that I can, with past experience in the satellite communications field, relatively prove they do exist.  I have spoken about this before and explained how the system works.  Long story short, something must be there sending a signal down from that location.  So its not something that I will accept the answer of its not there or some terrestrial based system. 

Also as a follow up in a sort.  You say aether moves from higher concentrations to lower concentrations and this explains gravity.  But the opposite is actually what gravity has been explained to do.  Matter attracts, and therefore it moves from lower to higher concentrations.  If aether tends to group together, that would seem to imply that this is what happens also in your model.  the lower concentrations move to higher concentrations. 
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on March 30, 2015, 01:24:36 PM
satellite questions are answered by general flat earth theory in a way that fits in fine with dual earth theory, there's no need for me to add anything to the usual answer.

Actually, the satellite questions are really not answered by the flat Earth concept.  They are simply dismissed as not being real.  The problem here is that I can, with past experience in the satellite communications field, relatively prove they do exist.  I have spoken about this before and explained how the system works.  Long story short, something must be there sending a signal down from that location.  So its not something that I will accept the answer of its not there or some terrestrial based system. 

Also as a follow up in a sort.  You say aether moves from higher concentrations to lower concentrations and this explains gravity.  But the opposite is actually what gravity has been explained to do.  Matter attracts, and therefore it moves from lower to higher concentrations.  If aether tends to group together, that would seem to imply that this is what happens also in your model.  the lower concentrations move to higher concentrations.

satellites are clearly a topic for another thread. i'm not an authority.

you're thinking in the wrong terms. gravity causes higher concentrations. aether kind does the same, by flowing from high to low (though aether is strictly space), but that's not the point. think of it like a balloon: inflate a balloon and leave it untied, the high pressure inside it rushed out to the lower pressure outside. aether works in the same way, flowing until there's soe equilibrium. however, if lots of aether flows into one spot (which can happen if it's especially thin), something material will be formed, and that disrupts the whole balance.
aether is in constant motion.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Umurweird on March 30, 2015, 01:24:41 PM
The difference is....rather than just calling h20 water.....someone once upon time actually investigated water and learned that it's atoms were 2 parts hydrogen wrapped around 1 water atom.

This is different than simply going on the internet and saying....aether is space. And doing nothing else.


I'm seriously beginning to think you might be angry at me for some reason.

Quote
when i refer to aether, mentally replace it with the word 'space'. happy? it works just fine. that's what i'm saying.

But you also assume air doesn't exist. And I'm asking why?

And you still haven't even attempted to answer.

yes, i am angry at you because you're being a fool. h2o is water because we have defined the substance with two hydrogens and one oxygen to be water. i have defined what we observe as space to be aether. this is a definition, it is not claiming any traits. again, replace any time i mention 'aether' with the word 'space' if it makes you happy. they are the same thing.
i am not wasting any more time on you. clearly you don't read, you cling to the same bs arguments just to antagonize, and it's pathetic.

It wasn't just a definition that determined water to be h2o.

Someone actually studied water and experimented and found the atoms that make it up.

This is completely different than what you are doing.....which is just calling something by a different name and expecting everyone to believe it's true.

I'd ask if you see the difference but you likely don't.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Umurweird on March 30, 2015, 01:26:02 PM
If aether is what makes the planets move....

What causes smaller objects to generally become satellites to larger objects. Like the earth moving around the sun and the moon around the earth and so on?

do you know ANYTHING about ANY flat earth theory? everything you've just said is wrong.

my model thread also explains it, IF YOU COULD BE BOTHERED TO READ A WORD I'VE FUCKING SAID. there's even a diagram for your moronic mind.

I know flat earth idea isn't a theory.

And I know it's not reality.

Your diagrams and crap.

In reality....we observe smaller objects being attracted to larger ones. How does aether make this possible.

Please answer the question.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on March 30, 2015, 01:29:40 PM
The difference is....rather than just calling h20 water.....someone once upon time actually investigated water and learned that it's atoms were 2 parts hydrogen wrapped around 1 water atom.

This is different than simply going on the internet and saying....aether is space. And doing nothing else.


I'm seriously beginning to think you might be angry at me for some reason.

Quote
when i refer to aether, mentally replace it with the word 'space'. happy? it works just fine. that's what i'm saying.

But you also assume air doesn't exist. And I'm asking why?

And you still haven't even attempted to answer.

yes, i am angry at you because you're being a fool. h2o is water because we have defined the substance with two hydrogens and one oxygen to be water. i have defined what we observe as space to be aether. this is a definition, it is not claiming any traits. again, replace any time i mention 'aether' with the word 'space' if it makes you happy. they are the same thing.
i am not wasting any more time on you. clearly you don't read, you cling to the same bs arguments just to antagonize, and it's pathetic.

It wasn't just a definition that determined water to be h2o.

Someone actually studied water and experimented and found the atoms that make it up.

This is completely different than what you are doing.....which is just calling something by a different name and expecting everyone to believe it's true.

I'd ask if you see the difference but you likely don't.


just stop posting. you're not acknowledging a word i say. you even completely contradicted me and pretended to quote me.
what am i expecting to be true? i am calling space by a different name. why is the word 'space' so holy to you? why does changing the name change it at all?!
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Umurweird on March 30, 2015, 01:33:10 PM
Quote
just stop posting. you're not acknowledging a word i say. you even completely contradicted me and pretended to quote me.
what am i expecting to be true? i am calling space by a different name. why is the word 'space' so holy to you? why does changing the name change it at all?!

You're arguing against things I haven't said.

I didn't pretend to quote you....I actually quoted you.

Space isn't holy to me....I'm not arguing you calling space aether. I'm perfectly fine with that. No argument here. You can call it pixie dust if you want to. The name doesn't matter. A rose by any other name, after all.

I'm arguing the rest of your idea. And you're deflecting.

What observations have led you to believe air doesn't exist?

That's like the 7th or 8th time I've asked that question. You have yet to answer. All you've done is get angry and say space is aether.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Rama Set on March 30, 2015, 01:36:14 PM
satellite questions are answered by general flat earth theory in a way that fits in fine with dual earth theory, there's no need for me to add anything to the usual answer.

Actually, the satellite questions are really not answered by the flat Earth concept.  They are simply dismissed as not being real.  The problem here is that I can, with past experience in the satellite communications field, relatively prove they do exist.  I have spoken about this before and explained how the system works.  Long story short, something must be there sending a signal down from that location.  So its not something that I will accept the answer of its not there or some terrestrial based system. 

Also as a follow up in a sort.  You say aether moves from higher concentrations to lower concentrations and this explains gravity.  But the opposite is actually what gravity has been explained to do.  Matter attracts, and therefore it moves from lower to higher concentrations.  If aether tends to group together, that would seem to imply that this is what happens also in your model.  the lower concentrations move to higher concentrations.

satellites are clearly a topic for another thread. i'm not an authority.

you're thinking in the wrong terms. gravity causes higher concentrations. aether kind does the same, by flowing from high to low (though aether is strictly space), but that's not the point. think of it like a balloon: inflate a balloon and leave it untied, the high pressure inside it rushed out to the lower pressure outside. aether works in the same way, flowing until there's soe equilibrium. however, if lots of aether flows into one spot (which can happen if it's especially thin), something material will be formed, and that disrupts the whole balance.
aether is in constant motion.
For aether [sic] to mimic gravity, you need it to flow from lower density to higher, not higher to lower.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on March 30, 2015, 01:45:55 PM
Quote
just stop posting. you're not acknowledging a word i say. you even completely contradicted me and pretended to quote me.
what am i expecting to be true? i am calling space by a different name. why is the word 'space' so holy to you? why does changing the name change it at all?!

You're arguing against things I haven't said.

I didn't pretend to quote you....I actually quoted you.

Space isn't holy to me....I'm not arguing you calling space aether. I'm perfectly fine with that. No argument here. You can call it pixie dust if you want to. The name doesn't matter. A rose by any other name, after all.

I'm arguing the rest of your idea. And you're deflecting.

What observations have led you to believe air doesn't exist?

That's like the 7th or 8th time I've asked that question. You have yet to answer. All you've done is get angry and say space is aether.

you are simply lying now. you refused to let me define space as aether multiple times. are you going to try and change the past now you realize you were being an idiot? at least admit you made a mistake.

i didn't answer because you were using it as a means of changing the topic from something important. i don't like evasion. now i can assume this is the central topic, it is quite simple: apparently we are surrounded, universally, by billions of particles smashing into us every second. you just need to open your eyes to realize that's untrue. imagine how a lone grain of sand feels, now think of how many particles apparently hit us. it's clearly bs.
i can promise you the objections you're thinking of have been given, i refer you to the model thread.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Mikey T. on March 30, 2015, 01:46:32 PM
Well, flowing from higher to lower pressure areas is what most refer to as fluid dynamics (i.e. air pressure equalizes when allowed to).  Gravity actually explains this in the opposite way.  Each atom of matter is attracted to each other, and the more matter you have in a given space adds each others attractive force to the whole.  Since space is supposedly warped by matter, the more densely the matter is, the gravitational force is the same but is concentrated onto a smaller area, therefore the space closest to the clump of matter warps space in a more profound way.  But I am getting a little out of what i was trying to explain.  Basically with gravity, the more matter you have the stronger the gravitational force is in that space.  This means that with gravity, large clumps of matter "pull"(in a way) on other matter.  This describes why the nuclei of atoms can be compacted tightly enough to fuse into a new element.  Since protons carry the same charge, you have to overcome the electromagnetic repulsion of the like charges.  Electromagnetic force is measured to be far stronger than gravitational force, so it needs a lot of gravitational force to fuse these new nuclei together.  With aether you say it just happens to clump together yet aether flows from higher to lower concentrations.  Air pressure and gravitational force are not the same thing.  Gravitational force compacts the air to a certain point.  But this is as far as the gravitational force felt on Earth can compress air.  This means that air will equalize to the pressure that gravity has compressed it to but no more without some other external force acting upon it. 
For aether to explain gravity, we must first explain why matter tends to attract to itself. 
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on March 30, 2015, 01:48:24 PM
satellite questions are answered by general flat earth theory in a way that fits in fine with dual earth theory, there's no need for me to add anything to the usual answer.

Actually, the satellite questions are really not answered by the flat Earth concept.  They are simply dismissed as not being real.  The problem here is that I can, with past experience in the satellite communications field, relatively prove they do exist.  I have spoken about this before and explained how the system works.  Long story short, something must be there sending a signal down from that location.  So its not something that I will accept the answer of its not there or some terrestrial based system. 

Also as a follow up in a sort.  You say aether moves from higher concentrations to lower concentrations and this explains gravity.  But the opposite is actually what gravity has been explained to do.  Matter attracts, and therefore it moves from lower to higher concentrations.  If aether tends to group together, that would seem to imply that this is what happens also in your model.  the lower concentrations move to higher concentrations.

satellites are clearly a topic for another thread. i'm not an authority.

you're thinking in the wrong terms. gravity causes higher concentrations. aether kind does the same, by flowing from high to low (though aether is strictly space), but that's not the point. think of it like a balloon: inflate a balloon and leave it untied, the high pressure inside it rushed out to the lower pressure outside. aether works in the same way, flowing until there's soe equilibrium. however, if lots of aether flows into one spot (which can happen if it's especially thin), something material will be formed, and that disrupts the whole balance.
aether is in constant motion.
For aether [sic] to mimic gravity, you need it to flow from lower density to higher, not higher to lower.

how? at the center of the earth is what i call terrestrial aether: an especially low concentration. this is what causes aetheric transmission: so little space it can be crossed in an instant. clearly it has incredibly low pressure, so aether will rush towards it.
in addition, mass is a different state of aether. it doesn't enter into it. indeed, in places where matter has formed, it formed because pressure was low, so things will definitely be attracted towards it for a time.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Umurweird on March 30, 2015, 01:50:12 PM
Quote
you are simply lying now. you refused to let me define space as aether multiple times. are you going to try and change the past now you realize you were being an idiot? at least admit you made a mistake.

How did I "refuse to let you"?

Did I take your keyboard away from you and stop you from typing?

I didn't make a mistake. You did....by thinking up this ridiculous idea but not being able to logically explain it.

Quote
i didn't answer because you were using it as a means of changing the topic from something important. i don't like evasion. now i can assume this is the central topic, it is quite simple: apparently we are surrounded, universally, by billions of particles smashing into us every second. you just need to open your eyes to realize that's untrue. imagine how a lone grain of sand feels, now think of how many particles apparently hit us. it's clearly bs.
i can promise you the objections you're thinking of have been given, i refer you to the model thread.

I'd refer you to reality.....but you'd probably just ignore it.

This isn't important.

There are billions of particles smashing into you. They are smaller than a grain of sand.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on March 30, 2015, 01:52:54 PM
Well, flowing from higher to lower pressure areas is what most refer to as fluid dynamics (i.e. air pressure equalizes when allowed to).  Gravity actually explains this in the opposite way.  Each atom of matter is attracted to each other, and the more matter you have in a given space adds each others attractive force to the whole.  Since space is supposedly warped by matter, the more densely the matter is, the gravitational force is the same but is concentrated onto a smaller area, therefore the space closest to the clump of matter warps space in a more profound way.  But I am getting a little out of what i was trying to explain.  Basically with gravity, the more matter you have the stronger the gravitational force is in that space.  This means that with gravity, large clumps of matter "pull"(in a way) on other matter.  This describes why the nuclei of atoms can be compacted tightly enough to fuse into a new element.  Since protons carry the same charge, you have to overcome the electromagnetic repulsion of the like charges.  Electromagnetic force is measured to be far stronger than gravitational force, so it needs a lot of gravitational force to fuse these new nuclei together.  With aether you say it just happens to clump together yet aether flows from higher to lower concentrations.  Air pressure and gravitational force are not the same thing.  Gravitational force compacts the air to a certain point.  But this is as far as the gravitational force felt on Earth can compress air.  This means that air will equalize to the pressure that gravity has compressed it to but no more without some other external force acting upon it. 
For aether to explain gravity, we must first explain why matter tends to attract to itself.

matter generally isn't attracted to itself, beyond individual cases of magnetism and chemical reaction. attempts to show that usually just end up measuring the way aether flows around solid objects. (while aether usually isn't too bothered by objects, they do have a small effect).
aether forms matter because it flows to low pressure areas. all the aether goes into it (as it is constantly in motion), a low pressure zone will attract a lot of aether, more than would necessarily be required. sometimes it just evens outwards, but if it's an extremely low pressure zone, some matter will be formed. at this point, the zone is still low in density because there's no aether there, so more goes in.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on March 30, 2015, 01:54:12 PM
Quote
you are simply lying now. you refused to let me define space as aether multiple times. are you going to try and change the past now you realize you were being an idiot? at least admit you made a mistake.

How did I "refuse to let you"?

Did I take your keyboard away from you and stop you from typing?

I didn't make a mistake. You did....by thinking up this ridiculous idea but not being able to logically explain it.

Quote
i didn't answer because you were using it as a means of changing the topic from something important. i don't like evasion. now i can assume this is the central topic, it is quite simple: apparently we are surrounded, universally, by billions of particles smashing into us every second. you just need to open your eyes to realize that's untrue. imagine how a lone grain of sand feels, now think of how many particles apparently hit us. it's clearly bs.
i can promise you the objections you're thinking of have been given, i refer you to the model thread.

I'd refer you to reality.....but you'd probably just ignore it.

This isn't important.

There are billions of particles smashing into you. They are smaller than a grain of sand.

you're being childish now. you spent pages whinging about "you can't just call space aether!" if you don't believe me, look back. if you're going to edit your posts, i quoted them. everyone can see.

look, just assertion. let me refer you to reality. individually particles may be smaller than sand, not all of them at once.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Umurweird on March 30, 2015, 02:05:10 PM
Quote
you're being childish now. you spent pages whinging about "you can't just call space aether!" if you don't believe me, look back. if you're going to edit your posts, i quoted them. everyone can see.

You can't call space aether without backing it up with something is what I am saying.

And you have yet to back it up.

You reject gravity and air and insert aether but don't both to explain it.

Quote
look, just assertion. let me refer you to reality. individually particles may be smaller than sand, not all of them at once.

Do you feel air on your skin when you're outside? Oh I'm sorry....do you feel "aether" on your skin when you're outside?

Do you feel cold when you're in a cold environment? Or hot in a hot environment? Feel rain hit you?

You do feel the effects of the particles that surround you.


Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Rama Set on March 30, 2015, 04:01:18 PM
satellite questions are answered by general flat earth theory in a way that fits in fine with dual earth theory, there's no need for me to add anything to the usual answer.

Actually, the satellite questions are really not answered by the flat Earth concept.  They are simply dismissed as not being real.  The problem here is that I can, with past experience in the satellite communications field, relatively prove they do exist.  I have spoken about this before and explained how the system works.  Long story short, something must be there sending a signal down from that location.  So its not something that I will accept the answer of its not there or some terrestrial based system. 

Also as a follow up in a sort.  You say aether moves from higher concentrations to lower concentrations and this explains gravity.  But the opposite is actually what gravity has been explained to do.  Matter attracts, and therefore it moves from lower to higher concentrations.  If aether tends to group together, that would seem to imply that this is what happens also in your model.  the lower concentrations move to higher concentrations.

satellites are clearly a topic for another thread. i'm not an authority.

you're thinking in the wrong terms. gravity causes higher concentrations. aether kind does the same, by flowing from high to low (though aether is strictly space), but that's not the point. think of it like a balloon: inflate a balloon and leave it untied, the high pressure inside it rushed out to the lower pressure outside. aether works in the same way, flowing until there's soe equilibrium. however, if lots of aether flows into one spot (which can happen if it's especially thin), something material will be formed, and that disrupts the whole balance.
aether is in constant motion.
For aether [sic] to mimic gravity, you need it to flow from lower density to higher, not higher to lower.

how? at the center of the earth is what i call terrestrial aether: an especially low concentration. this is what causes aetheric transmission: so little space it can be crossed in an instant. clearly it has incredibly low pressure, so aether will rush towards it.
in addition, mass is a different state of aether. it doesn't enter into it. indeed, in places where matter has formed, it formed because pressure was low, so things will definitely be attracted towards it for a time.

Oh I get it. You meant low density of space, whatever that is. So it sounds like spontaneous creation of matter (or transition from one state of Aether to another) is possible.  Is it permitted?  If so, why don't we witness it?  What principle guides the spontaneous creation of matter?
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Dinosaur Neil on March 30, 2015, 04:36:03 PM
Here's a question about dual earth theory:
If light can be teleported from one side of the disc to the other, how does aether accomplish this without interacting with the photons?

it depends what you're saying. i don't think anyone's ever said aether can't interact with anything, it clearly can. if you want the mechanism, i refer you to a recent post in the model thread: think of aether as synonymous with space. photons pass through space, don't they? therefore, they will be transmitted through the terrestrial aether (thin space: stretched out so that a smaller subjective distance covers a longer, objective one).

The fact that the transmitted photons are indistinguishable from ones which are not transmitted indicates the aether has not interacted with them. Any interaction with a photon will change either its energy or its direction. This would be observable, so how does aether accomplish this process without changing the energy or direction of light?
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Mikey T. on March 30, 2015, 05:57:31 PM
Ok so, I'm not going to get an answer that I personally consider satisfactory on this yet.  It's not a problem.  I will return to my wait for your ideas to develop more.  Right now "aether answers everything" is very unacceptable for explanations for me personally.  I need you to decide whether aether is space or matter, whether it is in this dimension or another, whether it is a force, energy, or substance.  You also need to decide what properties it holds.  Simply plugging it in wherever you cannot explain an effect will not work.  Remember you are trying to replace theories and physical laws that have been tested for hundreds and thousands of years.  There are no major holes in the current theory, just some unknowns.  The aether does everything and we don't really know why is akin to having the mythological Greek gods.   The flavor of aether to describe one thing is unrelated to another flavor of aether describing something else, much like Apollo riding his chariot across the sky describing the sun and Athena riding her chariot describing the moon.  Both are flavors of Greek gods.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on March 31, 2015, 02:46:49 AM
Quote
you're being childish now. you spent pages whinging about "you can't just call space aether!" if you don't believe me, look back. if you're going to edit your posts, i quoted them. everyone can see.

You can't call space aether without backing it up with something is what I am saying.

And you have yet to back it up.

You reject gravity and air and insert aether but don't both to explain it.

Quote
look, just assertion. let me refer you to reality. individually particles may be smaller than sand, not all of them at once.

Do you feel air on your skin when you're outside? Oh I'm sorry....do you feel "aether" on your skin when you're outside?

Do you feel cold when you're in a cold environment? Or hot in a hot environment? Feel rain hit you?

You do feel the effects of the particles that surround you.

see, you've proven it. i don't need to back up my word choice. i could call space 'bob', it's not going to change a thing. you're not going to start insisting it doesn't exist. why does calling space by a different name suddenly mean it doesn't exist?
why is the word space so precious to you? it is a word. you aren't arguing for a thing except complaining about word choice. what is wrong with you?!

i have explained everything repeatedly, your refusal to read a word is not my fault. i refer you YET AGAIN to the model thread, you illiterate idiot.

there is no point in talking to you. i explicitly referred you to the model thread, which answers those arguments, and you are still failing to acknowledge a word i'm saying. if you're not interested in reading or thinking, stop posting here, it's a waste of time for both of us.

unless you can say something that hasn't already been answered multiple times (the model thread, once more), i'm not wasting any more time trying to educate you.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on March 31, 2015, 02:47:36 AM
satellite questions are answered by general flat earth theory in a way that fits in fine with dual earth theory, there's no need for me to add anything to the usual answer.

Actually, the satellite questions are really not answered by the flat Earth concept.  They are simply dismissed as not being real.  The problem here is that I can, with past experience in the satellite communications field, relatively prove they do exist.  I have spoken about this before and explained how the system works.  Long story short, something must be there sending a signal down from that location.  So its not something that I will accept the answer of its not there or some terrestrial based system. 

Also as a follow up in a sort.  You say aether moves from higher concentrations to lower concentrations and this explains gravity.  But the opposite is actually what gravity has been explained to do.  Matter attracts, and therefore it moves from lower to higher concentrations.  If aether tends to group together, that would seem to imply that this is what happens also in your model.  the lower concentrations move to higher concentrations.

satellites are clearly a topic for another thread. i'm not an authority.

you're thinking in the wrong terms. gravity causes higher concentrations. aether kind does the same, by flowing from high to low (though aether is strictly space), but that's not the point. think of it like a balloon: inflate a balloon and leave it untied, the high pressure inside it rushed out to the lower pressure outside. aether works in the same way, flowing until there's soe equilibrium. however, if lots of aether flows into one spot (which can happen if it's especially thin), something material will be formed, and that disrupts the whole balance.
aether is in constant motion.
For aether [sic] to mimic gravity, you need it to flow from lower density to higher, not higher to lower.

how? at the center of the earth is what i call terrestrial aether: an especially low concentration. this is what causes aetheric transmission: so little space it can be crossed in an instant. clearly it has incredibly low pressure, so aether will rush towards it.
in addition, mass is a different state of aether. it doesn't enter into it. indeed, in places where matter has formed, it formed because pressure was low, so things will definitely be attracted towards it for a time.

Oh I get it. You meant low density of space, whatever that is. So it sounds like spontaneous creation of matter (or transition from one state of Aether to another) is possible.  Is it permitted?  If so, why don't we witness it?  What principle guides the spontaneous creation of matter?

it could only happen at low concentrations of space, because that's where space 'flows' into. it might happen within the earth, there's no way to know.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on March 31, 2015, 02:48:38 AM
Here's a question about dual earth theory:
If light can be teleported from one side of the disc to the other, how does aether accomplish this without interacting with the photons?

it depends what you're saying. i don't think anyone's ever said aether can't interact with anything, it clearly can. if you want the mechanism, i refer you to a recent post in the model thread: think of aether as synonymous with space. photons pass through space, don't they? therefore, they will be transmitted through the terrestrial aether (thin space: stretched out so that a smaller subjective distance covers a longer, objective one).

The fact that the transmitted photons are indistinguishable from ones which are not transmitted indicates the aether has not interacted with them. Any interaction with a photon will change either its energy or its direction. This would be observable, so how does aether accomplish this process without changing the energy or direction of light?

what are you talking about? you understand that transmission is purely to do with thin space, right? i can't believe i still need to repeat that point. it's not going to alter photons any more than general transition through space: you know, like they have to do all the time.
educate yourself on a theory before arguing against it, please.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on March 31, 2015, 02:51:13 AM
Ok so, I'm not going to get an answer that I personally consider satisfactory on this yet.  It's not a problem.  I will return to my wait for your ideas to develop more.  Right now "aether answers everything" is very unacceptable for explanations for me personally.  I need you to decide whether aether is space or matter, whether it is in this dimension or another, whether it is a force, energy, or substance.  You also need to decide what properties it holds.  Simply plugging it in wherever you cannot explain an effect will not work.  Remember you are trying to replace theories and physical laws that have been tested for hundreds and thousands of years.  There are no major holes in the current theory, just some unknowns.  The aether does everything and we don't really know why is akin to having the mythological Greek gods.   The flavor of aether to describe one thing is unrelated to another flavor of aether describing something else, much like Apollo riding his chariot across the sky describing the sun and Athena riding her chariot describing the moon.  Both are flavors of Greek gods.

i have defined aether well: my model has been refined, but the current form is simple.
aether is space. it has no properties (at least, none intrinsic to the model) beyond that. lots of space means a longer distance, little space means no distance. then, like everything (from fluids, to pressure, to heat, to anything) it goes from high concentrations, to low, to try and even out. that last aspect is a reasonable deduction, as it is a universal behavior.
aether is space, it is a dimension. i think i've explained this quite clearly. what is unclear?
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Weatherwax on March 31, 2015, 03:21:55 AM
Question:

How do you know the world is two-sided? I mean, with IAT and two suns, the world could be two separate flat plains. I don't see how you could tell.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: ausGeoff on March 31, 2015, 06:08:45 AM
i would very much suggest you read this thread, starting at the first post.

What?  And involuntarily lose a billion more brain cells?    ;D
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on March 31, 2015, 08:27:50 AM
Question:

How do you know the world is two-sided? I mean, with IAT and two suns, the world could be two separate flat plains. I don't see how you could tell.

we observe because of the stars. there can only be two centers of rotation, so there are certainly two faces. i say that they are on opposite sides of the world because it is a theory that requires less assumptions. there's no way to describe how the transmission at the equator would work consistently if there were two separate disks, while it makes perfect, almost elegant, sense if there is simply thin aether at the center, between each side of the world. dual earth theory is about minimizing assumptions: the sole thing any round earther could say i assume is aether,but as it stands aether is well-defined as space, and the properties i have taken from that are entirely reasonable. the best that you could possibly say is that i have no proof space possesses those properties, but i see no reason to think it unlikely.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: LogicalKiller on March 31, 2015, 08:30:48 AM
Question:

How do you know the world is two-sided? I mean, with IAT and two suns, the world could be two separate flat plains. I don't see how you could tell.

we observe because of the stars. there can only be two centers of rotation, so there are certainly two faces. i say that they are on opposite sides of the world because it is a theory that requires less assumptions. there's no way to describe how the transmission at the equator would work consistently if there were two separate disks, while it makes perfect, almost elegant, sense if there is simply thin aether at the center, between each side of the world. dual earth theory is about minimizing assumptions: the sole thing any round earther could say i assume is aether,but as it stands aether is well-defined as space, and the properties i have taken from that are entirely reasonable. the best that you could possibly say is that i have no proof space possesses those properties, but i see no reason to think it unlikely.

We've proved recently that space can't be thicker or thinner, so go back into corner and "think" about your ""theory"" , hahaha!
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on March 31, 2015, 08:32:24 AM
Question:

How do you know the world is two-sided? I mean, with IAT and two suns, the world could be two separate flat plains. I don't see how you could tell.

we observe because of the stars. there can only be two centers of rotation, so there are certainly two faces. i say that they are on opposite sides of the world because it is a theory that requires less assumptions. there's no way to describe how the transmission at the equator would work consistently if there were two separate disks, while it makes perfect, almost elegant, sense if there is simply thin aether at the center, between each side of the world. dual earth theory is about minimizing assumptions: the sole thing any round earther could say i assume is aether,but as it stands aether is well-defined as space, and the properties i have taken from that are entirely reasonable. the best that you could possibly say is that i have no proof space possesses those properties, but i see no reason to think it unlikely.

We've proved recently that space can't be thicker or thinner, so go back into corner and "think" about your ""theory"" , hahaha!

where?
stop wasting time, if you have a point to make, make it.

note: a point is not assertion. a point is something backed up with reason and logic, not just "because i say so!" try it sometime.
stop lying.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: LogicalKiller on March 31, 2015, 08:41:11 AM
Question:

How do you know the world is two-sided? I mean, with IAT and two suns, the world could be two separate flat plains. I don't see how you could tell.

we observe because of the stars. there can only be two centers of rotation, so there are certainly two faces. i say that they are on opposite sides of the world because it is a theory that requires less assumptions. there's no way to describe how the transmission at the equator would work consistently if there were two separate disks, while it makes perfect, almost elegant, sense if there is simply thin aether at the center, between each side of the world. dual earth theory is about minimizing assumptions: the sole thing any round earther could say i assume is aether,but as it stands aether is well-defined as space, and the properties i have taken from that are entirely reasonable. the best that you could possibly say is that i have no proof space possesses those properties, but i see no reason to think it unlikely.

We've proved recently that space can't be thicker or thinner, so go back into corner and "think" about your ""theory"" , hahaha!

where?
stop wasting time, if you have a point to make, make it.

note: a point is not assertion. a point is something backed up with reason and logic, not just "because i say so!" try it sometime.
stop lying.

"Auroras prove air exist" - This topic.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on March 31, 2015, 08:46:03 AM
Question:

How do you know the world is two-sided? I mean, with IAT and two suns, the world could be two separate flat plains. I don't see how you could tell.

we observe because of the stars. there can only be two centers of rotation, so there are certainly two faces. i say that they are on opposite sides of the world because it is a theory that requires less assumptions. there's no way to describe how the transmission at the equator would work consistently if there were two separate disks, while it makes perfect, almost elegant, sense if there is simply thin aether at the center, between each side of the world. dual earth theory is about minimizing assumptions: the sole thing any round earther could say i assume is aether,but as it stands aether is well-defined as space, and the properties i have taken from that are entirely reasonable. the best that you could possibly say is that i have no proof space possesses those properties, but i see no reason to think it unlikely.

We've proved recently that space can't be thicker or thinner, so go back into corner and "think" about your ""theory"" , hahaha!

where?
stop wasting time, if you have a point to make, make it.

note: a point is not assertion. a point is something backed up with reason and logic, not just "because i say so!" try it sometime.
stop lying.

"Auroras prove air exist" - This topic.

what are you talking about?! the existence (or rather, non-existence) of air is only incidental to my theory, and the observations are explained by air being thinner. you have yet to even make a start at showing that's not the case.
please, try to read.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: LogicalKiller on March 31, 2015, 08:57:03 AM
yada yada yada

I only refered you to this topic, learn to read.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Rama Set on March 31, 2015, 10:20:07 AM
Jroweskeptic-The rotation of the sky as you approach the equator appears to move as if you are crossing a tract of land as predicted by a RE. Does the low density of Æther (I think it is low, correct me if I am wrong) extend all the way to the stars or is there some sort of refraction occurring as the light encounters the change in Æther density?  Why don't humans perceive a change in Æther density?  It seems like there should be some sort of visual distortion accompanying the change. If you can provide a mathematical unit for Æther then it should be possible to predict.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on March 31, 2015, 12:12:18 PM
Jroweskeptic-The rotation of the sky as you approach the equator appears to move as if you are crossing a tract of land as predicted by a RE. Does the low density of Æther (I think it is low, correct me if I am wrong) extend all the way to the stars or is there some sort of refraction occurring as the light encounters the change in Æther density?  Why don't humans perceive a change in Æther density?  It seems like there should be some sort of visual distortion accompanying the change. If you can provide a mathematical unit for Æther then it should be possible to predict.

the aether forms a kind of dome over the earth, it's hard to put into words why. light, wind, anything that moves through space will be moved across the equator.
there is no way to tell the thickness of the space you're in, from within the space. you need an external perspective to see the difference, then you'd be able to see something unusual in the speed things take to happen.
don't make it any more special than it is. aetheric transmission is simply a matter of moving through space, which we do all the time. all that changes is the thickness of the space, but that change only makes sense when you have something to compare it to. from within, it might as well be the same.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Dinosaur Neil on March 31, 2015, 12:27:22 PM
I'm done with this crazed baboon and his stupid theories. Every time a valid objection is posted he just adds another property to aether - or, now the properties have started producing predicted effects, taking properties away (aether is both thick enough that planes can't fly through it, like syrup, yet at the same time it's "just space").
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on March 31, 2015, 12:41:21 PM
I'm done with this crazed baboon and his stupid theories. Every time a valid objection is posted he just adds another property to aether - or, now the properties have started producing predicted effects, taking properties away (aether is both thick enough that planes can't fly through it, like syrup, yet at the same time it's "just space").

if you tie together properties of the old model and the new, of course it's going to be more complicated. i'm not doing that.
i'm not sure when i've ever said planes can't fly through aether, unless you're talking about the idea of airplanes needing lift from non-existent air, which is actually answered far more neatly with the space model of aether. thicker space occurs higher up, which takes longer to go through: the airplanes do indeed lift, but so slowly it seems like there's nothing.
the only property of aether necessary for dual earth theory are basic deductions about space (the definition of distance), and the idea of flowing from high to low concentrations, which we observe in all things. i believe there is more to it, for personal reasons, but none of that is necessary for dual earth theory.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: LogicalKiller on March 31, 2015, 12:56:24 PM
Jroweskeptic-The rotation of the sky as you approach the equator appears to move as if you are crossing a tract of land as predicted by a RE. Does the low density of Æther (I think it is low, correct me if I am wrong) extend all the way to the stars or is there some sort of refraction occurring as the light encounters the change in Æther density?  Why don't humans perceive a change in Æther density?  It seems like there should be some sort of visual distortion accompanying the change. If you can provide a mathematical unit for Æther then it should be possible to predict.

the aether forms a kind of dome over the earth, it's hard to put into words why. light, wind, anything that moves through space will be moved across the equator.
there is no way to tell the thickness of the space you're in, from within the space. you need an external perspective to see the difference, then you'd be able to see something unusual in the speed things take to happen.
don't make it any more special than it is. aetheric transmission is simply a matter of moving through space, which we do all the time. all that changes is the thickness of the space, but that change only makes sense when you have something to compare it to. from within, it might as well be the same.

Have you got something more than assertion?
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Rama Set on March 31, 2015, 04:59:24 PM
Jroweskeptic-The rotation of the sky as you approach the equator appears to move as if you are crossing a tract of land as predicted by a RE. Does the low density of Æther (I think it is low, correct me if I am wrong) extend all the way to the stars or is there some sort of refraction occurring as the light encounters the change in Æther density?  Why don't humans perceive a change in Æther density?  It seems like there should be some sort of visual distortion accompanying the change. If you can provide a mathematical unit for Æther then it should be possible to predict.

the aether forms a kind of dome over the earth, it's hard to put into words why.

Can you provide evidence for this?  It is pretty important for anyone to reasonably accept your theory.

Quote
light, wind, anything that moves through space will be moved across the equator.

So you say.

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there is no way to tell the thickness of the space you're in, from within the space. you need an external perspective to see the difference, then you'd be able to see something unusual in the speed things take to happen.

So something unusual should have been observed near the equator then. You would have an external perspective on that region of low density Æther.

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don't make it any more special than it is.
I'm not. I am following the logical conclusions presented by your ideas.

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aetheric transmission is simply a matter of moving through space, which we do all the time. all that changes is the thickness of the space, but that change only makes sense when you have something to compare it to. from within, it might as well be the same.

But we do. If the density of the Æther within 2 miles of the Equator is 1 (keep it dimensionless for now) and it's density is 2, at 5 miles from the equator, then you should see some sort of change in velocity as something enters the lower density area.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on April 01, 2015, 01:39:37 AM
Jroweskeptic-The rotation of the sky as you approach the equator appears to move as if you are crossing a tract of land as predicted by a RE. Does the low density of Æther (I think it is low, correct me if I am wrong) extend all the way to the stars or is there some sort of refraction occurring as the light encounters the change in Æther density?  Why don't humans perceive a change in Æther density?  It seems like there should be some sort of visual distortion accompanying the change. If you can provide a mathematical unit for Æther then it should be possible to predict.

the aether forms a kind of dome over the earth, it's hard to put into words why.

Can you provide evidence for this?  It is pretty important for anyone to reasonably accept your theory.

Quote
light, wind, anything that moves through space will be moved across the equator.

So you say.

Quote
there is no way to tell the thickness of the space you're in, from within the space. you need an external perspective to see the difference, then you'd be able to see something unusual in the speed things take to happen.

So something unusual should have been observed near the equator then. You would have an external perspective on that region of low density Æther.

Quote
don't make it any more special than it is.
I'm not. I am following the logical conclusions presented by your ideas.

Quote
aetheric transmission is simply a matter of moving through space, which we do all the time. all that changes is the thickness of the space, but that change only makes sense when you have something to compare it to. from within, it might as well be the same.

But we do. If the density of the Æther within 2 miles of the Equator is 1 (keep it dimensionless for now) and it's density is 2, at 5 miles from the equator, then you should see some sort of change in velocity as something enters the lower density area.

the dome-effect is a result of the aetheric whirlpools, where the flow of aether rejoins from the interruption caused by the earth.

what do you mean 'so i say'? aether is space, in my model, why would it suddenly lose those traits?

there's no external perspective on space, as we see thanks to the light which is carried by space.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: LogicalKiller on April 01, 2015, 04:11:36 AM
the dome-effect is a result of the aetheric whirlpools

Prove it, because I see you don't have any evidences, only assertions and assumptions.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Rama Set on April 01, 2015, 04:37:52 AM
the dome-effect is a result of the aetheric whirlpools, where the flow of aether rejoins from the interruption caused by the earth.

Not sure how this relates to the observation of density change in the Æther. Can you explain and the provide your evidence?

Quote
what do you mean 'so i say'?


In the absence of evidence or a working mathematical model, there is no way to scrutinize your assertions. You are asking us to take your word for it.

Quote
aether is space, in my model, why would it suddenly lose those traits?

I never said anything would lose properties. Do you need me to clarify anything I said?

Quote
there's no external perspective on space, as we see thanks to the light which is carried by space.

Why can't we see that at different places light is being carried across dense or less dense patches of Aether?
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: LogicalKiller on April 01, 2015, 05:53:46 AM
How will you explain this?
(http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah260/BlueTurkeyS4/Untitled123_zpsbq5jlkh6.png)
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on April 01, 2015, 07:20:35 AM
logical killer, you are officially blocked again, i'm not wasting any more time on you. if you had read anything about my theory (for example, the basic fact that aether is space, that aetheric transmission is movement through space which we do all the time) you would see how pathetic everything you say is. you offer nothing except a waste of time, stop talking to me.

the dome-effect is a result of the aetheric whirlpools, where the flow of aether rejoins from the interruption caused by the earth.

Not sure how this relates to the observation of density change in the Æther. Can you explain and the provide your evidence?

Quote
what do you mean 'so i say'?


In the absence of evidence or a working mathematical model, there is no way to scrutinize your assertions. You are asking us to take your word for it.

Quote
aether is space, in my model, why would it suddenly lose those traits?

I never said anything would lose properties. Do you need me to clarify anything I said?

Quote
there's no external perspective on space, as we see thanks to the light which is carried by space.

Why can't we see that at different places light is being carried across dense or less dense patches of Aether?

the evidence is logical. when things rejoin, they're not going to immediately smash together, movement takes time, so they'll continue in their initial direction, slowly turn, then reconnect. it's behavior we observe everywhere, and the end result would be what is like a dome shape. the aetheric whirlpools are formed about this motion.

there's a working model, it doesn't have detailed equations because it takes resources which i do not have to find those numbers (as i have repeatedly said. until you can give me the budget and the time to take measurements, stop asking for things which are beyond anyone's ability. that's like me asking you to build a rocket, and see if space travel is possible, yourself).

you are proposing that space will behave differently at the equator. i don't see why that would be the case, unless you're over complicating and adding in more properties. at the equator, the distance between two points is essentially made zero. if you knew the real length of that distance (as i do), then you would be able to see the effects. if you don't know what that distance is meant to be, how can you judge how it looks?
you're asking after theoretical elements which do not exist in my model. at the equator, the distance between two points is made zero, allowing for instantaneous transmission. they go a huge distance at once, but you don't know what that distance is just from standing there. from our perspective, it might as well just be regular space. why wouldn't it look like that?
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: LogicalKiller on April 01, 2015, 07:52:23 AM
logical killer, you are officially blocked again, i'm not wasting any more time on you. if you had read anything about my theory (for example, the basic fact that aether is space, that aetheric transmission is movement through space which we do all the time) you would see how pathetic everything you say is. you offer nothing except a waste of time, stop talking to me.

the dome-effect is a result of the aetheric whirlpools, where the flow of aether rejoins from the interruption caused by the earth.

Not sure how this relates to the observation of density change in the Æther. Can you explain and the provide your evidence?

Quote
what do you mean 'so i say'?


In the absence of evidence or a working mathematical model, there is no way to scrutinize your assertions. You are asking us to take your word for it.

Quote
aether is space, in my model, why would it suddenly lose those traits?

I never said anything would lose properties. Do you need me to clarify anything I said?

Quote
there's no external perspective on space, as we see thanks to the light which is carried by space.

Why can't we see that at different places light is being carried across dense or less dense patches of Aether?

the evidence is logical. when things rejoin, they're not going to immediately smash together, movement takes time, so they'll continue in their initial direction, slowly turn, then reconnect. it's behavior we observe everywhere, and the end result would be what is like a dome shape. the aetheric whirlpools are formed about this motion.

there's a working model, it doesn't have detailed equations because it takes resources which i do not have to find those numbers (as i have repeatedly said. until you can give me the budget and the time to take measurements, stop asking for things which are beyond anyone's ability. that's like me asking you to build a rocket, and see if space travel is possible, yourself).

you are proposing that space will behave differently at the equator. i don't see why that would be the case, unless you're over complicating and adding in more properties. at the equator, the distance between two points is essentially made zero. if you knew the real length of that distance (as i do), then you would be able to see the effects. if you don't know what that distance is meant to be, how can you judge how it looks?
you're asking after theoretical elements which do not exist in my model. at the equator, the distance between two points is made zero, allowing for instantaneous transmission. they go a huge distance at once, but you don't know what that distance is just from standing there. from our perspective, it might as well just be regular space. why wouldn't it look like that?

Fuck yeah, something is crushing my theory so I'm just ignoring it, how lovely.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Rama Set on April 01, 2015, 10:41:24 AM
the evidence is logical.

Logic is not empirical evidence, it is a way to critically appraise empirical evidence. Just because a notion is logically sound, does not mean it is true; this is the difference between metaphysics and reality.  For something to be metaphysically true, it has to be logically sound.  For something to be a part of reality, it has to be empirically observable, directly or indirectly (although many people here like their empiricism to be solely direct).

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when things rejoin, they're not going to immediately smash together, movement takes time, so they'll continue in their initial direction, slowly turn, then reconnect. it's behavior we observe everywhere, and the end result would be what is like a dome shape. the aetheric whirlpools are formed about this motion.

I don't really see how this is relevant, can you explain further?

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there's a working model, it doesn't have detailed equations

In what sense is it a working model if it cannot do anything useful like make a prediction?

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because it takes resources which i do not have to find those numbers (as i have repeatedly said.

No offense, but this is lazy.  Einstein wrote the Field Equations of GR in a notebook in his apartment.  Educate yourself through the public library system and get to work!

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until you can give me the budget and the time to take measurements, stop asking for things which are beyond anyone's ability.

Why is creating a working model of Aether "beyond anyone's ability"?  I am sure there are plenty of theoretical physicists more than equipped to deal with your issues.

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that's like me asking you to build a rocket, and see if space travel is possible, yourself).

Not really, because as I said, you can do your work in a notebook.  If it is promising, experimental physicists with actual resources can set about testing the theory.  If you devise a consistent, viable theory to rival quantum foam (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_foam), then people would be interested.

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you are proposing that space will behave differently at the equator. i don't see why that would be the case, unless you're over complicating and adding in more properties.

I am proposing that there is a difference between higher and lower density regions of Aether, which you do as well, so I am not sure why you are opposing it.

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at the equator, the distance between two points is essentially made zero. if you knew the real length of that distance (as i do), then you would be able to see the effects.

Are you special?  Why can only you, or someone in touch with the Aether, like you, perceive this? I don't understand.  If this is a real effect then it should be observable by anyone.

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if you don't know what that distance is meant to be, how can you judge how it looks?

It seems logical that as something propagates from one medium to another, in this case higher density Aether to lower density Aether, that there should be a difference in how it travels, and that this difference should be observable.

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you're asking after theoretical elements which do not exist in my model.

Sounds like a problem with your theory then.

Quote
at the equator, the distance between two points is made zero, allowing for instantaneous transmission. they go a huge distance at once, but you don't know what that distance is just from standing there. from our perspective, it might as well just be regular space. why wouldn't it look like that?

I don't know.  Apparently neither do you.  Why does it appear and behave exactly like the RE model and why do all observations support the RE model?

I will finish with a story:  When I was in grade 3 I came up with a theory of physiology.  My thought was that we are entirely composed of pencils, sharpened HB pencils.  However, whenever someone tried to directly observe our physiology, it appeared exactly like we think it does: blood vessels, heart, muscle, etc...

Your theory of Aether reminds of exactly this.  I hope you can come up with some meaningful way to observe and model your theory, but right now, you are missing too many pieces.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on April 01, 2015, 11:56:34 AM
empirical evidence means nothing until you apply logic to it. knowing something happens is useless until you work out facts about it. logical evidence is entirely reasonable.
i explained how the dome-like effect came about, as you asked. what more do you want?
the model explains the truth about the world, and it makes predictions even though we already know what those results would be. without more resources i can't do better. i don't care what einstein could do, i'm not einstein. i have given a working model which makes sense, you're asking for more detail than any one person with no resources could ever give. even you could not give that level of depth for your round earth theory without relying on other resources.
if you give me an experiment that i could do to gain those numbers, please let me know.

you are proposing something that makes no sense. there are difference between higher and low densities of space. the distance within the space will, when compared with other space, cover a different distance. the problem is, we observe because of light. light moves at the same speed, it just covers a different distance. why would the speed of light alter?
you're asking for things i have never proposed. how is that a flaw with my theory and not your questions?

the round earth model explains most things because it has had longer to explain the dual earth model. there are many unexplained things, such as the details of gravity: dual earth model needs only space (which is known), and obvious deductions.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Rama Set on April 01, 2015, 12:29:04 PM
empirical evidence means nothing until you apply logic to it. knowing something happens is useless until you work out facts about it. logical evidence is entirely reasonable.

If you think your three sentences constituted a valid syllogism, then you are sadly mistaken.  I pretty much said exactly what you said in your first premise.  I agree with your second, and your conclusion does not follow the premises.  Why does applying logic to empirical evidence mean that logical conclusions must necessarily exist?

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i explained how the dome-like effect came about, as you asked. what more do you want?

What I asked for in the first place: how does it relate to the observation of light proprogating through different densities of Aether and where is your evidence.

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the model explains the truth about the world,

ehhhh, it kind of does, but not in a useful or meaningful way.

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and it makes predictions even though we already know what those results would be.

Yes, this is called an Ad Hoc theory, which is how many begin, I grant you.  The key is to be able to arrive at the same theory taking a completely different route.  Like Newton relating falling objects to Keplerian orbits through mathematics.

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without more resources i can't do better.

Not with that attitude you can't.

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i don't care what einstein could do, i'm not einstein.

Not with that attitude you aren't.

Quote
i have given a working model which makes sense,

It kind of makes sense, and I actually mean that as a compliment, but it still has holes and is not rigorous enough to be worthy of consideration.  You can blame that on the world, or you can choose to do something about it; I don't care either way.

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you're asking for more detail than any one person with no resources could ever give.

You have access to many free resources, it sounds like you don't avail them.  You can access pretty much every book ever written, and there are amateur astronomy resources that are available.  It sounds like two tools you need, and they are free or cheap.  Get out there and do it!

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even you could not give that level of depth for your round earth theory without relying on other resources.

Simply not true.  You would be astounded at the resources actually required to do basic scientific work.  It is less than you think.

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if you give me an experiment that i could do to gain those numbers, please let me know.

I can't do that because you have no model that makes testable predictions.  Once you provide a prediction that I have some way of measuring then I could think up an experiment.  I was already working on that by proposing observable visual phenomena as light propagates from a higher to lower area of Aether.

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you are proposing something that makes no sense. there are difference between higher and low densities of space. the distance within the space will, when compared with other space, cover a different distance. the problem is, we observe because of light. light moves at the same speed, it just covers a different distance. why would the speed of light alter?

There must be a time warp then.  If the speed is changing, but the distance is different, there will be a change in the amount of time it takes for light to cross it, but visually we do not perceive this distance change and so our perception of time must compress to maintain the frame of reference.

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you're asking for things i have never proposed. how is that a flaw with my theory and not your questions?

Is your theory only made up of ideas you propose?  What is the problem with my questions other than you did not think of them?

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the round earth model explains most things because it has had longer to explain the dual earth model. there are many unexplained things, such as the details of gravity: dual earth model needs only space (which is known), and obvious deductions.

How do you know if your theory needs more?  It is extremely vague, and the devil is always in the details.  Newton could have declared the same, but then the perihelion of mercury was observed and it was known that the theory is not complete.  You should avoid declarations of your theories completeness until it has withstood far more scrutiny than from a bunch of internet hoodlums.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on April 01, 2015, 12:43:05 PM
i have explained how light propagates several times, and i have given evidence deduced logically from what would be the case if my theory was true, and observation. if you have any specific questions as to how light works, please ask them.

oh, i didn't realize attitude could take the place of scientific instruments. really? i can't use data that assumes a round earth obviously, and there's very little else available.

there is no time warp, you're forgetting that observation depends on light. the ratio of the speed of light to the distance covered is going to remain the same. think of the behavior at the equator: this is the simplest case. when someone crosses, you watch them cover the distance to the far side of the earth, however, the light that comes back from them covers the same distance at the same speed. how could any strangeness be noted?
and this is the only accessible place my model predicts any majority activity in terms of density of space.

my theory is based on making the fewest assumptions possible. i'm not going to needlessly include special case scenarios. i am open to improving my theory based on suggestions (as i have done several times), but only when these refinements are genuine improvements and simplifications.

i did not say my theory was complete. no theory is, it is just a better one. certainly, it refines classical flat earth theory. no new holes arise, once the simple fact that distance relies on space is understood, and multiple aspects are explained neatly with one entity. by your example of newton and gravity and orbits, this is a strength: 'gravity', aetheric transmission (and as far as personal theories go, air) are all explained with the far more clearly defined aether of space. in addition, queries posed before (such as circumpolar stars) are answered cleanly.
i can assume your main objection is that it does not improve upon round earth theory. it will not, from your perspective, because to do that would necessitate centuries worth of time and resources which your model has had to develop.
it does, however, clearly improve in terms of simplicity. rather than the non-understood gravity, we have known space and logically deduced, explicable properties. they are explained, not rigorously with numbers due to a lack of resources, but in general times the answers are clearly there.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Weatherwax on April 01, 2015, 12:48:05 PM
Question:

As the moon can be seen at the same time in both hemispheres, there must be two moons in your model yes?

Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on April 01, 2015, 12:54:58 PM
Question:

As the moon can be seen at the same time in both hemispheres, there must be two moons in your model yes?

most likely correct. i came to that conclusion through eclipses, but that would make sense too.

however, i am working on refining the theory further. i may have been too hasty in disregarding the original single-sun model. aetheric transmission could, with a cursory thought, render the second obsolete. it may also provide a better explanation for sunsets, which have been a minor complaint of round earthers from what i have seen.
the main reason i rejected the one-sun model was to allow the sun to shine from over points on the earth. however, a change in angle might also accomplish that.

at present however, yes, my model contains two moons.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Weatherwax on April 01, 2015, 12:59:41 PM
Well quite a lot if detail can be seen on the moon with even a cheap telescope, so the two moons would have to identical, with exactly the same side always facing the earth. This seems a bit unlikely, to say the least.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on April 01, 2015, 01:00:35 PM
Well quite a lot if detail can be seen on the moon with even a cheap telescope, so the two moons would have to identical, with exactly the same side always facing the earth. This seems a bit unlikely, to say the least.


it's not that unlikely. the effects of the aether would be mirrored on each side of the earth, their result would be the same.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: LogicalKiller on April 01, 2015, 01:04:34 PM
Question:

As the moon can be seen at the same time in both hemispheres, there must be two moons in your model yes?

most likely correct. i came to that conclusion through eclipses, but that would make sense too.

however, i am working on refining the theory further. i may have been too hasty in disregarding the original single-sun model. aetheric transmission could, with a cursory thought, render the second obsolete. it may also provide a better explanation for sunsets, which have been a minor complaint of round earthers from what i have seen.
the main reason i rejected the one-sun model was to allow the sun to shine from over points on the earth. however, a change in angle might also accomplish that.

at present however, yes, my model contains two moons.

You know how dumb it sounds?
Occam's razor - objective is simplicity, and in your DFE model simplicity isn't existing. Also - 2 suns on both hemispheres showing off at the same distance should collapse in some time and as we see that doesn't happen. And also - if there were 2 suns, then there would be day all day, bud!
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Weatherwax on April 01, 2015, 01:06:47 PM
Well quite a lot if detail can be seen on the moon with even a cheap telescope, so the two moons would have to identical, with exactly the same side always facing the earth. This seems a bit unlikely, to say the least.


it's not that unlikely. the effects of the aether would be mirrored on each side of the earth, their result would be the same.

It's astronomically unlikely. There has to be some element of chaos.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on April 01, 2015, 01:09:55 PM
Well quite a lot if detail can be seen on the moon with even a cheap telescope, so the two moons would have to identical, with exactly the same side always facing the earth. This seems a bit unlikely, to say the least.


it's not that unlikely. the effects of the aether would be mirrored on each side of the earth, their result would be the same.

It's astronomically unlikely. There has to be some element of chaos.

it gets ironed out with distance.
as i said though, the model is still being refined.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: ausGeoff on April 02, 2015, 06:08:30 AM
It's astronomically unlikely. There has to be some element of chaos.

It gets ironed out with distance.
As I said though, the model is still being refined.

LOL... this comment is so funny!  JRoweSceptimatic still seems to think he's actually developed some sort of scientifically credible "model".  Thus far we've yet to see this "model", or how it relates to the rest of the known cosmos, or even our own sun and moon.  His silly "theories" about teleportation, aether, and time and space all sound like rehashes of old 'Star Trek' episodes—and are about as believable.

I can't accept that any rational person with even a barely working knowledge of high school level science would spend so much of their time posting such a plethora of pseudo-scientific drivel. 

It's also funny that he uses blocking people (like me) who repeatedly shoot down his silly notions as some sort of threat or punishment.  I'm guessing that most round earthers here would be more than pleased to be on his ignore list, simply because we can continue to take the piss out of him and his nonsense—but without having to endure his inconsequential defences.

"Dual earth" theory is, by definition, an oxymoron... "A scientific theory is a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world that is acquired through the scientific method and repeatedly tested and confirmed through observation and experimentation".  Not one aspect of this definition can be applied to JRoweSceptimatic's ludicrous, so-called theory.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Rama Set on April 02, 2015, 06:54:10 AM
i have explained how light propagates several times, and i have given evidence deduced logically from what would be the case if my theory was true, and observation. if you have any specific questions as to how light works, please ask them.

What do you think about conservation laws?

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oh, i didn't realize attitude could take the place of scientific instruments. really? i can't use data that assumes a round earth obviously, and there's very little else available.

It appears you have not really tried, yet maintain it is impossible.  This attitude of yours is interfering with your goal of having a properly fleshed out theory.  Once you have really tried, then you can say what is possible and not.

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there is no time warp, you're forgetting that observation depends on light. the ratio of the speed of light to the distance covered is going to remain the same. think of the behavior at the equator: this is the simplest case. when someone crosses, you watch them cover the distance to the far side of the earth, however, the light that comes back from them covers the same distance at the same speed. how could any strangeness be noted?

Lets assume the distance at the equator is actually 10 kms, but that the Aetheric density reduces it to zero.  Light travels from a point 2,000kms N of the Equator to a point 2000kms S of the equator.  It sounds like you are saying that light will actually travel 4,010kms, but only appear to travel 4,000kms.  If the light were say, an image of something, then the image would appear to be 0.03 seconds older than our perception tells us it should be.  So whatever the distance the equator actually covers, should be present as information in the light that traverses it.

What do you think?

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and this is the only accessible place my model predicts any majority activity in terms of density of space.

How does it predict it?

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my theory is based on making the fewest assumptions possible. i'm not going to needlessly include special case scenarios. i am open to improving my theory based on suggestions (as i have done several times), but only when these refinements are genuine improvements and simplifications.

But you make so many assumptions already such as:

-The earth is flat disk populated on both sides
-There is a current of aether that runs through the center of the world
-All matter is ultimately aetheric in its origin
-he aether leaves the earth at the rim, at speed, and leaves in all directions
-Some curve up over either side to form the aetheric whirlpools, some are simply pushed back into the current within the earth, the terrestrial aether, maintaining its motion
-The top and bottom of the earth are mirrored, as the aether exerts the same forces on each
-aether has an almost magnetic attraction to itself, keeping things balanced
-There is a sun above and below the earth, which appear the same because of this property

And that is from the first paragraph (http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=63027.0#.VRxZTeHjK_Q)!

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i did not say my theory was complete.

Neither did I.

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no theory is, it is just a better one. certainly, it refines classical flat earth theory. no new holes arise, once the simple fact that distance relies on space is understood, and multiple aspects are explained neatly with one entity. by your example of newton and gravity and orbits, this is a strength: 'gravity', aetheric transmission (and as far as personal theories go, air) are all explained with the far more clearly defined aether of space. in addition, queries posed before (such as circumpolar stars) are answered cleanly.

Minus the profound lack of mathematics able to accurately predict behavior, any empirical evidence that favors your theory over RE and the Ad Hoc construction of the theory. 

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i can assume your main objection is that it does not improve upon round earth theory.

No you cannot assume that.  My objection is that you are declaring that your theory is mostly complete and accurate and yet, you cannot tell me how dense the Aether is at any point, only that it is dense enough to suit your purposes.

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it will not, from your perspective, because to do that would necessitate centuries worth of time and resources which your model has had to develop.

Einstein developed GR in about 10 years; your excuses do nothing to further your position.

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it does, however, clearly improve in terms of simplicity.

I grant you that it is a simple conception, and I really appreciate that.

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rather than the non-understood gravity, we have known space

How is space "known" and gravity is "non-understood"?

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and logically deduced, explicable properties.

But without any evidence to support them.

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they are explained, not rigorously with numbers due to a lack of resources, but in general times the answers are clearly there.

"In general"?  This should not be sufficient to you.  I can grant that it is sufficient enough to provoke a course of investigation on your part, but not to say that you have done anything to explain how the world works.  I also should not expect scientists to follow you just yet since they can observe, directly, the existence of air, for example, and it matches their theory very well thank you.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: LogicalKiller on April 02, 2015, 06:59:14 AM
DON'T BE STUPID!!! DON'T RESPOND TO JROWE, HE'S A TROLL AND IF YOU DON'T RESPOND TO HIM, HE WILL SHUT UP!!!
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Rama Set on April 02, 2015, 07:03:27 AM
DON'T BE STUPID!!! DON'T RESPOND TO JROWE, HE'S A TROLL AND IF YOU DON'T RESPOND TO HIM, HE WILL SHUT UP!!!

It is actually the most interesting FE theory in a while. If you don't want to participate, please move on.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: LogicalKiller on April 02, 2015, 07:07:53 AM
DON'T BE STUPID!!! DON'T RESPOND TO JROWE, HE'S A TROLL AND IF YOU DON'T RESPOND TO HIM, HE WILL SHUT UP!!!

It is actually the most interesting FE theory in a while. If you don't want to participate, please move on.

Most interesting "theory" (haha, it's not a theory, if you don't know what's a theory then check its definition) based on a freaking ad hoc aether, which gains new properties each time it gets destroyed. And also, aether doesn't exist and you still want to fight with JRowe. Everything you say, he completes with "aether done it". Just don't respond to him.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Rama Set on April 02, 2015, 07:13:08 AM
Most interesting "theory" (haha, it's not a theory, if you don't know what's a theory then check its definition) based on a freaking ad hoc aether, which gains new properties each time it gets destroyed.

This is not news.

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And also, aether doesn't exist and you still want to fight with JRowe. Everything you say, he completes with "aether done it".

I am not fighting with him.  Why are you so mad?

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Just don't respond to him.

Conversely, you can move on and let the people who want to be here do there thing without harassment.  I don't particularly care either way, but you appear to have strong emotions regarding the content of this thread so I think you should take care of your needs.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: LogicalKiller on April 02, 2015, 07:23:31 AM
Most interesting "theory" (haha, it's not a theory, if you don't know what's a theory then check its definition) based on a freaking ad hoc aether, which gains new properties each time it gets destroyed.

This is not news.

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And also, aether doesn't exist and you still want to fight with JRowe. Everything you say, he completes with "aether done it".

I am not fighting with him.  Why are you so mad?

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Just don't respond to him.

Conversely, you can move on and let the people who want to be here do there thing without harassment.  I don't particularly care either way, but you appear to have strong emotions regarding the content of this thread so I think you should take care of your needs.

Okay, if you so like to take a shit-bath I let you to do so. But remember - after having a shit-bath you will be smelly (responding to JRowe makes his topic in top and I still see his quotes).
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on April 02, 2015, 07:24:00 AM
i see logicalkiller is still whining. amazing how he can go for pages, then when i get tired of his self-righteousness, repetition and inability to debate and block him, he suddenly decides no one should talk to me. it's the toddler mindset. he wants to be the center of attention, whinges, then when he isn't he tries to break everything.
i don't care what shape you think the world is, that behavior's pathetic.

onto topic:

i accept conservation laws, why?

it's nothing to do with attitude. when there is nothing i can do without far more resources than i have, what do you expect? i have considered multiple experiments, proposed them on this forum, and none are in my abilities.
as it stands, the theory may not be relying on detailed equations, but there is clearly space for them, and the theory works. listing multiple details to the theory does not mean it's based on assumptions: many of those details are conclusions. for example, it is clear that the typical model of all the world being on top of one flat surface can be rejected due to circumpolar stars, and the coriolis force. the conclusion is that there are two aspects to the world: either two hemispheres, or two discs. the aetheric attraction is a logical conclusion, in the latest refinement of the model: the current inside the world is the thinnest we experience. as all things flow from high concentrations to low, then aether will flow down to this lack of concentration (explaining gravity), meanwhile the existence of thin space there, exposed at the equator (and to answer your question: only at the equator), means we cross it immediately, explaining transmission.
in the end, the theory is actually rather elegant. the only thing you could call an assumption is my definition of aether, and the properties assigned to it, but they are all basic deductions from the notion of space. you could complain that they might not be in the arrangements i have, but those arrangements explain the world completely: it's no more of an assumption than the round earth model and how matter happens to be attracted to itself, and some just happened to form a sun, some made a black hole about which the sun rotates, and then planets and moons...
all the details follow simply from the common-sense properties of aether. i suppose you could argue that the idea that matter comes from aether is an assumption, but it's not necessary to the theory. if you want to suppose matter came about from another source, it would still be caught up in aetheric currents and given much the same result, as it flows with the aether. i merely tried to simplify the theory.

gravity is not understood, by the admission of every scientist: there is no explanation offered for how it so much as works. space, however, is known to exist by everyone, and it is known to be how we define distance.

the evidence my theory has is the same as the evidence for round earth theory, as every observation made there is explained neatly by my model. you cannot give round earth theory precedence just because you'd rather hold to it.
equations, which could theoretically be found with time and resources, are present, if not known. at the very least, dual earth theory is equally as likely as round earth.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: LogicalKiller on April 02, 2015, 07:34:29 AM
i see logicalkiller is still whining. amazing how he can go for pages, then when i get tired of his self-righteousness, repetition and inability to debate and block him, he suddenly decides no one should talk to me. it's the toddler mindset. he wants to be the center of attention, whinges, then when he isn't he tries to break everything.
i don't care what shape you think the world is, that behavior's pathetic.

onto topic:

i accept conservation laws, why?

it's nothing to do with attitude. when there is nothing i can do without far more resources than i have, what do you expect? i have considered multiple experiments, proposed them on this forum, and none are in my abilities.
as it stands, the theory may not be relying on detailed equations, but there is clearly space for them, and the theory works. listing multiple details to the theory does not mean it's based on assumptions: many of those details are conclusions. for example, it is clear that the typical model of all the world being on top of one flat surface can be rejected due to circumpolar stars, and the coriolis force. the conclusion is that there are two aspects to the world: either two hemispheres, or two discs. the aetheric attraction is a logical conclusion, in the latest refinement of the model: the current inside the world is the thinnest we experience. as all things flow from high concentrations to low, then aether will flow down to this lack of concentration (explaining gravity), meanwhile the existence of thin space there, exposed at the equator (and to answer your question: only at the equator), means we cross it immediately, explaining transmission.
in the end, the theory is actually rather elegant. the only thing you could call an assumption is my definition of aether, and the properties assigned to it, but they are all basic deductions from the notion of space. you could complain that they might not be in the arrangements i have, but those arrangements explain the world completely: it's no more of an assumption than the round earth model and how matter happens to be attracted to itself, and some just happened to form a sun, some made a black hole about which the sun rotates, and then planets and moons...
all the details follow simply from the common-sense properties of aether. i suppose you could argue that the idea that matter comes from aether is an assumption, but it's not necessary to the theory. if you want to suppose matter came about from another source, it would still be caught up in aetheric currents and given much the same result, as it flows with the aether. i merely tried to simplify the theory.

gravity is not understood, by the admission of every scientist: there is no explanation offered for how it so much as works. space, however, is known to exist by everyone, and it is known to be how we define distance.

the evidence my theory has is the same as the evidence for round earth theory, as every observation made there is explained neatly by my model. you cannot give round earth theory precedence just because you'd rather hold to it.
equations, which could theoretically be found with time and resources, are present, if not known. at the very least, dual earth theory is equally as likely as round earth.

You're the only pathetic shit who uses ad hoc aether which doesn't exist. I say to not respond to you because you are useless toy of peasants which could insert something very deeply to reach your stomach.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: ausGeoff on April 02, 2015, 08:02:32 AM
The topic of this thread; "Ask me about dual earth theory" is a classic non sequitur.

It presupposes that there is in existence an a actual "dual earth" model, when in actuality no such model exists.  It then seeks a discussion about something which has not been previously proved to exist.

It's identical to asking for a discussion about whether unicorns are white or brindle.

And all non sequiturs are logical fallacies;  in this case the topic is probably best described as argument by scenario.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Rama Set on April 02, 2015, 10:12:21 AM
<no one cares>

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onto topic:

i accept conservation laws, why?

I worry that your ideas about light propogation violate conservation laws around information loss in the same way a black hole was thought to. 

Quote
it's nothing to do with attitude. when there is nothing i can do without far more resources than i have, what do you expect?

If you say you can not do more, then you won't.  If you say, that you will learn advanced mathematics, and work out the theory yourself, then you will,  It is up to you.

Quote
i have considered multiple experiments, proposed them on this forum, and none are in my abilities.

If you have a rigorous, coherent, mathematical theory, experimentalists will be open to developing ways to test it.

Quote
as it stands, the theory may not be relying on detailed equations, but there is clearly space for them, and the theory works.

The theory works as a thought in your mind.  You have no idea if it is compatible with the world, because you have no mathematical theory, and you have collected no data to compare it to.  Any other claim is reaching in the extreme.

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listing multiple details to the theory does not mean it's based on assumptions: many of those details are conclusions.

Conclusions that you are assuming because you have no empirical evidence for them.

Quote
for example, it is clear that the typical model of all the world being on top of one flat surface can be rejected due to circumpolar stars, and the coriolis force. the conclusion is that there are two aspects to the world: either two hemispheres, or two discs.

So here it is an either/or statement, but in your previous words it is unequivocally and flat disc populated on both sides.  I can accept the either/or statement, but to say that the Earth is a flat disc is an assumption with no supporting data.

Quote
the aetheric attraction is a logical conclusion, in the latest refinement of the model: the current inside the world is the thinnest we experience.

Perhaps it is a logical conclusion, although I think you are guilty of wishful thinking, but that does not make it true, and as you have no evidence, it has to be classified as an assumption.

Quote
as all things flow from high concentrations to low,

Magnetism and gravity notwithstanding?

Quote
then aether will flow down to this lack of concentration (explaining gravity), meanwhile the existence of thin space there, exposed at the equator (and to answer your question: only at the equator), means we cross it immediately, explaining transmission.

Beating a dead horse, but without empirical evidence, you can only assume this is true, or maybe more accurately, hope.

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in the end, the theory is actually rather elegant.

You are feeling good about it I see.

Quote
the only thing you could call an assumption is my definition of aether, and the properties assigned to it,

Right, your theory.

Quote
but they are all basic deductions from the notion of space. you could complain that they might not be in the arrangements i have, but those arrangements explain the world completely: it's no more of an assumption than the round earth model and how matter happens to be attracted to itself, and some just happened to form a sun, some made a black hole about which the sun rotates, and then planets and moons...
all the details follow simply from the common-sense properties of aether. i suppose you could argue that the idea that matter comes from aether is an assumption, but it's not necessary to the theory. if you want to suppose matter came about from another source, it would still be caught up in aetheric currents and given much the same result, as it flows with the aether. i merely tried to simplify the theory.

Everything that follows from assuming the definition and properties of Aether can rightly be called an assumption as well.

Quote
gravity is not understood, by the admission of every scientist: there is no explanation offered for how it so much as works.

Of course there is; Einstein's Field Equations accurately describe exactly how gravity works in most domains, except at the quantum level and elements of galactic and larger sized bodies.

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space, however, is known to exist by everyone, and it is known to be how we define distance.

So? 

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the evidence my theory has is the same as the evidence for round earth theory, as every observation made there is explained neatly by my model.

But they aren't.  For example, if I asked you to relate the density of Aether to the deflection of light, you could not do it other than to abstractly do so in an Ad Hoc way.  Einstein's field equations can tell you how much momentum and energy of  different frequencies of light will warp a specific manifold of space.  You speak in large sweeping generalities, and can not show how your theory derives detailed, quantifiable measurement predictions. You do not even have a unit to describe the density of Aether.

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you cannot give round earth theory precedence just because you'd rather hold to it.

Correct, but I can tell you that a Round Earth is not a theory, it is an observation.

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equations, which could theoretically be found with time and resources, are present, if not known. at the very least, dual earth theory is equally as likely as round earth.

If they are not known, how are they "present"?  Are you waiting for the Aether to tell the equations to you, like Moses and the Torah?  I am sorry, but you sound very naive, hopeful and reaching when you say things like this.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: LogicalKiller on April 02, 2015, 10:47:54 AM
<no one cares>

Quote
onto topic:

i accept conservation laws, why?

I worry that your ideas about light propogation violate conservation laws around information loss in the same way a black hole was thought to. 

Quote
it's nothing to do with attitude. when there is nothing i can do without far more resources than i have, what do you expect?

If you say you can not do more, then you won't.  If you say, that you will learn advanced mathematics, and work out the theory yourself, then you will,  It is up to you.

Quote
i have considered multiple experiments, proposed them on this forum, and none are in my abilities.

If you have a rigorous, coherent, mathematical theory, experimentalists will be open to developing ways to test it.

Quote
as it stands, the theory may not be relying on detailed equations, but there is clearly space for them, and the theory works.

The theory works as a thought in your mind.  You have no idea if it is compatible with the world, because you have no mathematical theory, and you have collected no data to compare it to.  Any other claim is reaching in the extreme.

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listing multiple details to the theory does not mean it's based on assumptions: many of those details are conclusions.

Conclusions that you are assuming because you have no empirical evidence for them.

Quote
for example, it is clear that the typical model of all the world being on top of one flat surface can be rejected due to circumpolar stars, and the coriolis force. the conclusion is that there are two aspects to the world: either two hemispheres, or two discs.

So here it is an either/or statement, but in your previous words it is unequivocally and flat disc populated on both sides.  I can accept the either/or statement, but to say that the Earth is a flat disc is an assumption with no supporting data.

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the aetheric attraction is a logical conclusion, in the latest refinement of the model: the current inside the world is the thinnest we experience.

Perhaps it is a logical conclusion, although I think you are guilty of wishful thinking, but that does not make it true, and as you have no evidence, it has to be classified as an assumption.

Quote
as all things flow from high concentrations to low,

Magnetism and gravity notwithstanding?

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then aether will flow down to this lack of concentration (explaining gravity), meanwhile the existence of thin space there, exposed at the equator (and to answer your question: only at the equator), means we cross it immediately, explaining transmission.

Beating a dead horse, but without empirical evidence, you can only assume this is true, or maybe more accurately, hope.

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in the end, the theory is actually rather elegant.

You are feeling good about it I see.

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the only thing you could call an assumption is my definition of aether, and the properties assigned to it,

Right, your theory.

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but they are all basic deductions from the notion of space. you could complain that they might not be in the arrangements i have, but those arrangements explain the world completely: it's no more of an assumption than the round earth model and how matter happens to be attracted to itself, and some just happened to form a sun, some made a black hole about which the sun rotates, and then planets and moons...
all the details follow simply from the common-sense properties of aether. i suppose you could argue that the idea that matter comes from aether is an assumption, but it's not necessary to the theory. if you want to suppose matter came about from another source, it would still be caught up in aetheric currents and given much the same result, as it flows with the aether. i merely tried to simplify the theory.

Everything that follows from assuming the definition and properties of Aether can rightly be called an assumption as well.

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gravity is not understood, by the admission of every scientist: there is no explanation offered for how it so much as works.

Of course there is; Einstein's Field Equations accurately describe exactly how gravity works in most domains, except at the quantum level and elements of galactic and larger sized bodies.

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space, however, is known to exist by everyone, and it is known to be how we define distance.

So? 

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the evidence my theory has is the same as the evidence for round earth theory, as every observation made there is explained neatly by my model.

But they aren't.  For example, if I asked you to relate the density of Aether to the deflection of light, you could not do it other than to abstractly do so in an Ad Hoc way.  Einstein's field equations can tell you how much momentum and energy of  different frequencies of light will warp a specific manifold of space.  You speak in large sweeping generalities, and can not show how your theory derives detailed, quantifiable measurement predictions. You do not even have a unit to describe the density of Aether.

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you cannot give round earth theory precedence just because you'd rather hold to it.

Correct, but I can tell you that a Round Earth is not a theory, it is an observation.

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equations, which could theoretically be found with time and resources, are present, if not known. at the very least, dual earth theory is equally as likely as round earth.

If they are not known, how are they "present"?  Are you waiting for the Aether to tell the equations to you, like Moses and the Torah?  I am sorry, but you sound very naive, hopeful and reaching when you say things like this.

Let's see if I guessed good.


Quote from: JRoweSkeptic

"Your "worries" are meaningless. I did an almost complete, well-defined theory which is quite logical and consistent.
I'm into advanced mathematics, but my theory doesn't require so. I think I made myself clear without deep mathematics.
There you go, there is a search option on forum, I refer you to my posts with experiments I wasn't able to try.
My theory is compatible with the world, because I just described how world looks and works.
You're wrong, vast part of my conclusions are based on my contact with aether, which I know it exists because of personal observation.
I proved the Earth is flat many times, I'm not going to repeat myself, don't make you look illiterate.
As I said - aether exists, I observed it personally.
Gravity doesn't exist, it's a lie made by scientists to make them feel good and to lie other people.
I'm not going to repeat myself anymore, as I said, aether exists and I observed it personally, maybe some people can't, but I did.
Up here I proved that my theory is rather ellegant than yours obvious lie.
It's not an assumption, it's called deduction. We know that you can see a moon from two hemispheres, then there must be two exact moons. Same with sun.
Einstein's hypothesis are only hypothesis.
So if space is a distance, then by physics we know that this distance can be shortened or opposite. That means - thicker or thinner.
I can show you equations later, but I think you mightn't understand them well as I do.
Take a look out of window - what do you see? Any curve or total flatness? Rather second option.
Yes, I sound naive and childish, because I'm 9 and I suck my dad's cock.

Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Rama Set on April 02, 2015, 11:14:46 AM
Are you done?  Feel better?
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Mikey T. on April 02, 2015, 11:37:46 AM
First, keep working on it JRowe. 

the evidence my theory has is the same as the evidence for round earth theory, as every observation made there is explained neatly by my model. you cannot give round earth theory precedence just because you'd rather hold to it.
equations, which could theoretically be found with time and resources, are present, if not known. at the very least, dual earth theory is equally as likely as round earth.

This is not really accurate.  The big thing people get hung up on is that gravity hasn't been explained beyond it being a fundamental force of nature.  Gravity has been tested pretty thoroughly and using models of gravitational forces, the results are as predicted.  Caveat:  Not at quantum levels or at the very large(without more mass than we currently observe).  Gravity experiments have worked as expected every time they are done.  The problem is that to say gravity does not exist, you have to ignore much of science and call upon a massive conspiracy.  Most science can be boiled down to the fundamental forces.  Chemistry, nuclear physics,  and many more can show origins from gravity and all equations and predictions involving that fact work.  Currently your model requires too much reliance on aether having contradictory properties when needed.  Therefore it is not as likely as the Round Earth model. 
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on April 02, 2015, 11:52:43 AM
First, keep working on it JRowe. 

the evidence my theory has is the same as the evidence for round earth theory, as every observation made there is explained neatly by my model. you cannot give round earth theory precedence just because you'd rather hold to it.
equations, which could theoretically be found with time and resources, are present, if not known. at the very least, dual earth theory is equally as likely as round earth.

This is not really accurate.  The big thing people get hung up on is that gravity hasn't been explained beyond it being a fundamental force of nature.  Gravity has been tested pretty thoroughly and using models of gravitational forces, the results are as predicted.  Caveat:  Not at quantum levels or at the very large(without more mass than we currently observe).  Gravity experiments have worked as expected every time they are done.  The problem is that to say gravity does not exist, you have to ignore much of science and call upon a massive conspiracy.  Most science can be boiled down to the fundamental forces.  Chemistry, nuclear physics,  and many more can show origins from gravity and all equations and predictions involving that fact work.  Currently your model requires too much reliance on aether having contradictory properties when needed.  Therefore it is not as likely as the Round Earth model.

the problem is assuming gravity must be responsible for those observations.
can you give an example of when aether holds contradictory properties? the only examples i have seen are when multiple models are conflated, which is never going to work. you can probably work out what's meant with a little thought.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on April 02, 2015, 11:59:43 AM
rama,

how does my theory violate laws of conservation when it comes to light propagation? i don't see how information is lost, simply because things can cross distances in a greater or smaller amount of time.

evidence may be observational. the fact is, this model works. it may not work to decimal degree accuracy without equations, but those equations may be found. the problem is, you're acting as though math is purely theoretical. it's not. you have yet to provide one possible experiment, or one way i get could any kind of information. without that any math is just guesswork, and not something i want to involve.

i do not assume aether exists, do not forget that: aether is space in my model, and space exists. every property is a logical deduction from that. you can call that an assumption if you wish, but that would be dishonest. and, unlike gravity, aether is well defined and doesn't need to constantly have new things added to it and new excuses made once you change the scale, or take observations that conflict with what it states.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Dinosaur Neil on April 02, 2015, 12:34:49 PM
Aether has been proved not to exist by the P6 force, which is responsible for the Allais effect. Until TPBI can explain the existence of the P6 force with his aether theory, it is disproved.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Rama Set on April 02, 2015, 12:47:22 PM
rama,

how does my theory violate laws of conservation when it comes to light propagation? i don't see how information is lost, simply because things can cross distances in a greater or smaller amount of time.

Where does the light go when it crosses in to the great beyond?  What data do you have that suggests that all the light returns from it's journey?  It is something to think about.

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evidence may be observational. the fact is, this model works. it may not work to decimal degree accuracy without equations, but those equations may be found.

It does not even work to the whole number, not even with binary.  You have no data.  You cannot even say for sure that the equations will be found.  It is like claiming dark matter is true, except many orders of magnitude worse.

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the problem is, you're acting as though math is purely theoretical. it's not.

Einstein did not come up with a testable prediction for GR until after the theory was complete.  He did however see that it could solve the perihelion of Mercury.  So stop making excuses.

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you have yet to provide one possible experiment, or one way i get could any kind of information.

How is that my failing?  You cannot even give me a unit to express Aether density in and it is your theory.  Perhaps you should not complain that others can not solve your problems.

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without that any math is just guesswork, and not something i want to involve.

That is simply not the case, that is you not understanding how math works.  How do you think all the previous mathematical theorems and physical theories were set down?  Have a look at Newton's Principia Mathematica and you can see how the process can work.

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i do not assume aether exists, do not forget that: aether is space in my model, and space exists. every property is a logical deduction from that. you can call that an assumption if you wish, but that would be dishonest.

You are assigning properties to space that have never been previously attributed to it without any sort of mathematical formalism or supporting data.  It is the very essence of an assumption.

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and, unlike gravity, aether is well defined and doesn't need to constantly have new things added to it and new excuses made once you change the scale, or take observations that conflict with what it states.

What will you do if your theory encounters a phenomena, previously unobserved, that you cannot explain?  Does this mena your theory is not well defined?  Even if it explained everything up to then extremely well?
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Mikey T. on April 02, 2015, 06:13:58 PM
First, keep working on it JRowe. 

the evidence my theory has is the same as the evidence for round earth theory, as every observation made there is explained neatly by my model. you cannot give round earth theory precedence just because you'd rather hold to it.
equations, which could theoretically be found with time and resources, are present, if not known. at the very least, dual earth theory is equally as likely as round earth.

This is not really accurate.  The big thing people get hung up on is that gravity hasn't been explained beyond it being a fundamental force of nature.  Gravity has been tested pretty thoroughly and using models of gravitational forces, the results are as predicted.  Caveat:  Not at quantum levels or at the very large(without more mass than we currently observe).  Gravity experiments have worked as expected every time they are done.  The problem is that to say gravity does not exist, you have to ignore much of science and call upon a massive conspiracy.  Most science can be boiled down to the fundamental forces.  Chemistry, nuclear physics,  and many more can show origins from gravity and all equations and predictions involving that fact work.  Currently your model requires too much reliance on aether having contradictory properties when needed.  Therefore it is not as likely as the Round Earth model.

the problem is assuming gravity must be responsible for those observations.
can you give an example of when aether holds contradictory properties? the only examples i have seen are when multiple models are conflated, which is never going to work. you can probably work out what's meant with a little thought.

Not really an assumption, we have a proper theory, tested that theory, experimented with the effects, predicted outcomes of that theory, observed the effects happen in reality.  I made a slight mistake in my descriptions of gravity.  It doesn't stop working in the very large scale or the very small scale.  The very small scale, or quantum scale, makes it very difficult to observe at plank lengths, also gravity being the weakest fundamental force would be overshadowed very well by the stronger forces in the quantum levels.  The very large scale (galactic size) still works also, but the gravitational movements we have observed seem to show that there is much more mass than we currently have observed (remember we are looking at things that are very far away).  This currently unobserved mass is what scientists are calling dark matter.  It isn't some constant or variable added in to make the gravitational equations work.  It is the current proposal for what may be out there causing the galaxies to move differently than expected.  In our local neighborhood of stars, in our solar system, on Earth, and in the labs, gravity passes every test. 
Why do we attribute the formation of elements to gravity?  Well fusion has been done by man.  Unless you are saying that all models of how atoms work are incorrect, this is the only way to get heavier elements.  The equations work perfectly, accounting for mass change of the atom, energy released or needed in the process, etc. 
Now you asked for contradictory properties.  Other than you want to now call it space itself, but assign properties of matter to it, You say that it flows from higher concentrations to lower concentrations.  This supposed flow is what "pushes" us to the Earth.  It apparently is what we say is air pressure, but measurements clearly show that the air pressure is higher the closer to the Earth you get, within the atmosphere.  So why isn't it flinging us off of the Earth?  You give it properties that are exclusive to matter, physical objects and particles, yet want to say its space.  Space is ...  well space, what the matter occupies.  You claim it has no mass, yet it can move everything towards Earth.  I asked about this with the thickness and thinness of aether earlier.  It bends light in different ways depending on what is needed to make things look like a spherical Earth (it really has to do this o work like you say). 
In your model you claim there are 2 suns mirrored to each other, yet why does the sun set?  This again you claim as aetheric bendy light. 

I say  this, if you want an elegant solution to why things fall towards Earth, why they fall with an acceleration until they get to terminal velocity (Terminal velocity is the highest velocity attainable by an object in free fall. It occurs once the sum of the drag force (Fd) and buoyancy equals the downward force of gravity (FG) acting on the object. Since the net force on the object is zero, the object has zero acceleration), why things in space move the way they do, etc.  It does this with a mathematical preciseness of near perfection (sometimes we have to assume the actual mass of things we cannot go out and measure by counting all their individual atoms, especially if its very far away).  Gravity is the simpler solution, it really doesn't rely on assumptions.  BTW gravity doesn't assume a round Earth for its math.  Rather, if gravity is real, the Earth must be spherical due to what gravity would do to that large of a mass.  So no, I do not accept your proposal yet, due to the overuse of aether.  You have to choose what aether is, what properties it may have, then you can decide what it may cause to happen, which would lead you to what experiments you could do.  Right now, aether is pure assumption.  It cannot be tested, because you don't even know what it may be.  You need to look at what all you are attributing it to, and understand that it cannot do things that are the opposite of what it does at another time, and in such a way as to make everyone think the Earth is round. 
 
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Rama Set on April 02, 2015, 08:10:33 PM
The problem with gravity at the quantum scale is not that it's effects are too minute. The real problem is that when you try to solve GR equations applying quantum mechanical principals you get infinities, infinities divided by zero and other nightmarish answers. The current theory of gravity is insufficient in that regime.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on April 03, 2015, 02:18:14 AM
neil, no one cares about your pathetic attempts at derailing.

rama, what do you mean where does light go? it keeps moving through space, the same way as it would in your model. what else?
i have an explainable model which explains our observations. what is so hard to understand about that?
you're the one who clearly doesn't understand how math works. equations mean nothing until you have something to apply them to, and i do not have the resources to find out anything about what i wish to apply them to. try to understand this, and stop repeating yourself, your argument is an awful one.
i am deducing properties of space from what it is. i can give you equations for how long it would take to cross space of thinner or thicker densities, but that's obvious in any case. it's linear, double the thickness means double the time, etc.
it would depend on the phenomenon. general handwaved concepts don't mean anything.

mikey, i have clearly defined aether multiple times.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: ausGeoff on April 03, 2015, 04:42:06 AM
I do not assume aether exists, do not forget that: aether is space in my model, and space exists. every property is a logical deduction from that. You can call that an assumption if you wish, but that would be dishonest. And, unlike gravity, aether is well defined and doesn't need to constantly have new things added to it and new excuses made once you change the scale, or take observations that conflict with what it states.

LOL... this entire paragraph reads like science fiction.  Which I guess it is on second thoughts.    ;D

Now JRoweSceptimatic admits that his aether may not exist.  He also claims that it is "well defined" despite not having presented one single conclusive definition.  The funniest claim is that it doesn't need to have "new things" added to it—again despite him doing precisely this on an ad hoc basis every couple of days!

JRoweSceptimatic's stories read like a potential model for a new Marvel Comics hero..... "Aetherman Strikes Again!"
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Rama Set on April 03, 2015, 06:30:17 AM
rama, what do you mean where does light go? it keeps moving through space, the same way as it would in your model. what else?
i have an explainable model which explains our observations. what is so hard to understand about that?

It is hard to understand why you are so convinced of it's truth without having done anything other than post here about it and admit that you have done nothing.

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you're the one who clearly doesn't understand how math works. equations mean nothing until you have something to apply them to, and i do not have the resources to find out anything about what i wish to apply them to. try to understand this, and stop repeating yourself, your argument is an awful one.

Make the equations first, the decide the best way to test them.   This is how theorists work. Presumably every term in your equations will relate to the real world.

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i am deducing properties of space from what it is.

Correction: what you believe it is.

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  i can give you equations for how long it would take to cross space of thinner or thicker densities, but that's obvious in any case. it's linear, double the thickness means double the time, etc.

Why have you been holding out?!?!  Could you post an equation including SI units please?  Should be easy enough for you it sounds.

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it would depend on the phenomenon. general handwaved concepts don't mean anything.

So what about the issues gravity has encountered mean it is "completely unexplained"?
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on April 03, 2015, 12:37:04 PM
i have made observations and deductions of the world. and yet again you ignore the fact that it is impossible to make equations without having data to work from. seriously. you can make some equations by defining certain variables, but i'm not defining variables, my equations would have to be there to describe real events, and i can only do that with data i do not have.
i have said that repeatedly, you have ignored it. if you persist in making the claim that it is possible, say how. i am not asking you to do my work for me, i am asking for you to give an example of how i may create a mathematical model of the behavior of aether without the resources to take any direct readings on the detailed behavior of aether (beyond that which i observe, and which has limited relevance). if you are only going to evade that question, then my point is clear: you are asking for an impossibility, and just wasting our time.

if the thickness of aether at some point on earth is defined to be a constant of 1 (at the equator would be a good example), then take a distance d along that. r will represent the thickness of space, then the time taken to cross d at density 1 will be t1.
therefore, obviously, tr = rt1
when the thickness r is close to zero, such as at the equator, the time taken to cross will be instantaneous. t is time, measured in any such unit, r is a dimensionless constant dependent on the thickness of aether.
as i said, i can provide minor equations like this, they're obvious, and they're basically how we define the thickness of space, but equations that rely on predicting behavior require resources and measurements.
even einstein's general relativity was built on the backs of centuries of work on related equations built from observation. i have no such thing.

i suggest you research gravity. the basic principle by which it works is unknown; it assumes a form of gravity to drag us down warped spacetime, which fails to make any sense. no scientist pretends to understand gravity, they simply plug numbers into a formula: to me, that sounds like they're barking up the wrong tree entirely. if they can find no relationship, then it seems obvious the source of the supposed force is something entirely different, and they're observing side-effects.
aether does actually begin to provide an explanation for even the cavendish experiment, though i haven't dedicated much time to that yet.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Rama Set on April 03, 2015, 05:47:05 PM
i have made observations and deductions of the world. and yet again you ignore the fact that it is impossible to make equations without having data to work from.

Do you have data or don't you?  I thought all interpretations of gravity and air were just misinterpretations of Aether. Use that as your data. I am seriously starting to think you don't want to develop your theory

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seriously. you can make some equations by defining certain variables, but i'm not defining variables, my equations would have to be there to describe real events, and i can only do that with data i do not have.

See above.

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i have said that repeatedly, you have ignored it. if you persist in making the claim that it is possible, say how. i am not asking you to do my work for me, i am asking for you to give an example of how i may create a mathematical model of the behavior of aether without the resources to take any direct readings on the detailed behavior of aether (beyond that which i observe, and which has limited relevance). if you are only going to evade that question, then my point is clear: you are asking for an impossibility, and just wasting our time.

Use existing data on gravity and air and reinterpret it as a property of space.

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if the thickness of aether at some point on earth is defined to be a constant of 1 (at the equator would be a good example), then take a distance d along that. r will represent the thickness of space, then the time taken to cross d at density 1 will be t1.
therefore, obviously, tr = rt1
when the thickness r is close to zero, such as at the equator, the time taken to cross will be instantaneous. t is time, measured in any such unit, r is a dimensionless constant dependent on the thickness of aether.
as i said, i can provide minor equations like this, they're obvious, and they're basically how we define the thickness of space, but equations that rely on predicting behavior require resources and measurements.

Can you attach SI units to this?  I think you have said Æther has no mass, so what exactly is its density a measure of?

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even einstein's general relativity was built on the backs of centuries of work on related equations built from observation. i have no such thing.

The data is the data. Of course you can reinterpret in the light of your model. It is what Einstein did. He also was educated in advanced mathematics. You should probably do so as well.

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i suggest you research gravity. the basic principle by which it works is unknown; it assumes a form of gravity to drag us down warped spacetime, which fails to make any sense.

In what way is it nonsensical?  Mass, energy and momentum warp spacetime. How is that less sensical than particles carrying electromagnetic charges for no apparent reason other than, that is what is observed?

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no scientist pretends to understand gravity, they simply plug numbers into a formula: to me, that sounds like they're barking up the wrong tree entirely.

No scientist knows why any of the laws of physics turned out like they did. Not one. You are applying different standards to gravity than everything else.

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if they can find no relationship, then it seems obvious the source of the supposed force is something entirely different, and they're observing side-effects.

The source of gravity is matter, energy and momentum just like the source of electromagnetism is quantum charge. Why is this so strange for you?

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aether does actually begin to provide an explanation for even the cavendish experiment, though i haven't dedicated much time to that yet.

So you say.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on April 04, 2015, 04:15:22 AM
i have used existing measurements as data, but they don't help with any more than behavor in a limited field, and they are explained by the equatio i have given you. if i had hours of free time i might be able to measure out a model of the whirlpools as they exist on earth, but what would the point be in that? it won't encourage any more people to accept what i say, you'd reject it on principle, and it would be a waste of time for all involved.
i would do as you say, if there was any purpose to it. as it is, all you're asking me to do is waste my time because you're not interested in having any kind of serious discussion of dual earth theory. the model would be useless for any observation, and to gain any vaguely meaningful data of it i would need to travel the world with a huge roll of measuring tape to work out the real distances. again, resources i do not have. otherwise i'm getting data for something with no measurements, and that's useless.
numbers and equations are not necessary for a theory to be true. i suggest you acknowledge that.

as i said, r is a dimensionless constant. i refer you to the definition of the thickness of aether: it is the amount of space within a set 'distance' (distance measured with density 1, using that as a standard). for example, the equator has thickness close to zero. there will be basically no distance crossed if it was compresed to the point the thickness was the same as what we experience (generally) on the earth's surface).
it does not have units. that is what dimensionless constant means.

no scientists will profess to understand the source of gravity. if you think you've cracked it, ask for a nobel.
the only remotely comparable element in dual earth theory is the origin of space, but we know distance has to exist for matter to exist: there is no such requirement for gravity. it's something thrown in for the sake of it, and you still have the same problem with explaining the origin of space. the aether model reduces assumptions, clearly.
and yet you're goign to start complaining about all the traits i've given aether, in igorance of the logical deduction behind them. i wonder why.

it's clear you're not interested in having a discussion on dual earth theory. please accept the answers you've been given, rather than just trying to waste both of our times.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Rama Set on April 04, 2015, 05:23:09 AM
It's clear you are not interested in developing dual earth theory. I am sorry I have wasted my time.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: ausGeoff on April 04, 2015, 06:22:08 AM
No scientists will profess to understand the source of gravity.
Wrong.  As usual.  Gravity is a phenomenon that shares similar (apparent) properties with magnetism.  The effects of gravity can be observed and replicated without any particular effort.  Drop an apple.  Drop it 100 times.  You've proved the existence of gravity in your own kitchen.  And the "source" of gravity—and its strength and direction of action—is determined by the proximity of the two objects and their mass.  Drop an apple on the moon and it won't fall to the earth; it'll fall to the moon's surface.

(http://i0.wp.com/www.universetoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/gravity.gif?zoom=1.5&resize=400%2C440)


Can you please produce an equation using your "aetheric constant" similar to the one above?


Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on April 04, 2015, 11:22:29 AM
It's clear you are not interested in developing dual earth theory. I am sorry I have wasted my time.

is there any reason you posted that twice?

i am interested in developing the theory, as i have done: i am not interested in wasting time on things that mean little and achieve nothing, nor am i physically able to do that which requires more resources than i have. i'm not sure which of those two statements is meant to be controversial.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Rama Set on April 04, 2015, 12:20:29 PM
It's clear you are not interested in developing dual earth theory. I am sorry I have wasted my time.

is there any reason you posted that twice?

i am interested in developing the theory, as i have done: i am not interested in wasting time on things that mean little and achieve nothing, nor am i physically able to do that which requires more resources than i have. i'm not sure which of those two statements is meant to be controversial.

Accident.

There is nothing controversial in an Internet crank claiming to have reinvented physics only to never do any physics. Why do you think you are controversial.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on April 04, 2015, 12:45:01 PM
It's clear you are not interested in developing dual earth theory. I am sorry I have wasted my time.

is there any reason you posted that twice?

i am interested in developing the theory, as i have done: i am not interested in wasting time on things that mean little and achieve nothing, nor am i physically able to do that which requires more resources than i have. i'm not sure which of those two statements is meant to be controversial.

Accident.

There is nothing controversial in an Internet crank claiming to have reinvented physics only to never do any physics. Why do you think you are controversial.

i am not interested in wasting time on things that mean little and achieve nothing, nor am i physically able to do that which requires more resources than i have.
a crank would be providing nonsensical equations and numbers. i do not do that, because i know hasty attempts will be flawed. no one expects you to derive every celestial equation yourself solely for the sake of a forum post that will get rejected on principle, why is it fair for you to ask me to do the same?

seriously, ask yourself. if i came back tomorrow with pages of clear, accurate math describing aether and the dual earth model, would you care? would it even make a dent in your preconceptions? would you even read it?
i am not a crank: what i am, is intelligent enough to know when someone has no desires beyond making me waste my time.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: sokarul on April 04, 2015, 12:56:00 PM
You can't come back with anything because you have nothing. You will never have anything that supports anything you claim.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: LogicalKiller on April 04, 2015, 12:59:51 PM
It's clear you are not interested in developing dual earth theory. I am sorry I have wasted my time.

I warned you. This prick JRowe simply uses ad hoc and you can't win. So please do not respond to JRowe, because he is just a loneless troll.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on April 04, 2015, 01:23:27 PM
You can't come back with anything because you have nothing. You will never have anything that supports anything you claim.

now my point is made clear. you offer no evidence, only baseless assertion that makes your closed-mindedness obvious.
i have offered a model that fully explains what we observe in the world, lacking only things that take resources and time to find. you say nothing against it, you reject it for no reason beyond the fact you'd rather cling to a round earth.
it seems very clear you're the one who offers nothing.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Rama Set on April 04, 2015, 02:54:27 PM
It's clear you are not interested in developing dual earth theory. I am sorry I have wasted my time.

is there any reason you posted that twice?

i am interested in developing the theory, as i have done: i am not interested in wasting time on things that mean little and achieve nothing, nor am i physically able to do that which requires more resources than i have. i'm not sure which of those two statements is meant to be controversial.

Accident.

There is nothing controversial in an Internet crank claiming to have reinvented physics only to never do any physics. Why do you think you are controversial.

i am not interested in wasting time on things that mean little and achieve nothing, nor am i physically able to do that which requires more resources than i have.
a crank would be providing nonsensical equations and numbers. i do not do that, because i know hasty attempts will be flawed. no one expects you to derive every celestial equation yourself solely for the sake of a forum post that will get rejected on principle, why is it fair for you to ask me to do the same?

seriously, ask yourself. if i came back tomorrow with pages of clear, accurate math describing aether and the dual earth model, would you care? would it even make a dent in your preconceptions? would you even read it?
i am not a crank: what i am, is intelligent enough to know when someone has no desires beyond making me waste my time.
Of course it would make a difference. I would be interested to see it. Somehow I doubt you have the education to do so though since you cannot even express the density of Aether as an SI unit. Considering you have declared your endeavor impossible before you have even done anything I doubt you have the motivation to do much more than you do here.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Rama Set on April 04, 2015, 02:56:07 PM
I warned you.

And I told you none of that would surprise me.

Quote
This prick JRowe simply uses ad hoc and you can't win.


It's about winning?

Quote
So please do not respond to JRowe, because he is just a loneless troll.

Please stop reading.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: sokarul on April 04, 2015, 11:17:07 PM
You can't come back with anything because you have nothing. You will never have anything that supports anything you claim.

now my point is made clear. you offer no evidence, only baseless assertion that makes your closed-mindedness obvious.
i have offered a model that fully explains what we observe in the world, lacking only things that take resources and time to find. you say nothing against it, you reject it for no reason beyond the fact you'd rather cling to a round earth.
it seems very clear you're the one who offers nothing.
You haven't made anything clear. You keep saying you are refining your theory. I don't say anything against your theory because I don't need to. You made everything up based on nothing. Do you understand this? Aether transport theory? So baseless.
You want evidence of a round earth?
Foucault Pendulum.
Sunrise/sunsets
Seasons
24 hour sun at the south pole.
Astronomy
Chemistry/Physics
The sun picture experiment that was performed by people on this site.
Geology.

So I'm going to ask again, what do you have?
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on April 05, 2015, 05:05:34 AM
It's clear you are not interested in developing dual earth theory. I am sorry I have wasted my time.

is there any reason you posted that twice?

i am interested in developing the theory, as i have done: i am not interested in wasting time on things that mean little and achieve nothing, nor am i physically able to do that which requires more resources than i have. i'm not sure which of those two statements is meant to be controversial.

Accident.

There is nothing controversial in an Internet crank claiming to have reinvented physics only to never do any physics. Why do you think you are controversial.

i am not interested in wasting time on things that mean little and achieve nothing, nor am i physically able to do that which requires more resources than i have.
a crank would be providing nonsensical equations and numbers. i do not do that, because i know hasty attempts will be flawed. no one expects you to derive every celestial equation yourself solely for the sake of a forum post that will get rejected on principle, why is it fair for you to ask me to do the same?

seriously, ask yourself. if i came back tomorrow with pages of clear, accurate math describing aether and the dual earth model, would you care? would it even make a dent in your preconceptions? would you even read it?
i am not a crank: what i am, is intelligent enough to know when someone has no desires beyond making me waste my time.
Of course it would make a difference. I would be interested to see it. Somehow I doubt you have the education to do so though since you cannot even express the density of Aether as an SI unit. Considering you have declared your endeavor impossible before you have even done anything I doubt you have the motivation to do much more than you do here.

as i said, the constant in the equation was not the aetheric density plugged in, it was a constant based on the density, so it is a dimensionless constant. strictly speaking it would be the density at that point in space, divided by some 1-density (such as the average on the surface of the earth).
if you want the density in si units, even though it is unrelated to the discussion, it would be metres. the easiest way to think of it is to take one metre in the density at sea level, take that amount of space and stretch/compress until it is at some density, and the reciprocal of the amount of 1-density distance it can cross will be a measure of its density.
as i said, however, the r in the equation is dimensionless as it is one thickness divided by another.

being aware that something is beyond my abilities is nothing more than awareness of fact. it is beyond your abilities to build a rocket and fly to the moon. does that say anything about you, beyond sanity?
i am aware of my limitations. i do not have millions of dollars worth of resources, or infinite free time. why is acknowledging that somehow a bad thing?
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on April 05, 2015, 05:07:39 AM
You can't come back with anything because you have nothing. You will never have anything that supports anything you claim.

now my point is made clear. you offer no evidence, only baseless assertion that makes your closed-mindedness obvious.
i have offered a model that fully explains what we observe in the world, lacking only things that take resources and time to find. you say nothing against it, you reject it for no reason beyond the fact you'd rather cling to a round earth.
it seems very clear you're the one who offers nothing.
You haven't made anything clear. You keep saying you are refining your theory. I don't say anything against your theory because I don't need to. You made everything up based on nothing. Do you understand this? Aether transport theory? So baseless.
You want evidence of a round earth?
Foucault Pendulum.
Sunrise/sunsets
Seasons
24 hour sun at the south pole.
Astronomy
Chemistry/Physics
The sun picture experiment that was performed by people on this site.
Geology.

So I'm going to ask again, what do you have?

aether transport theory is not baseless when you educate yourself on the aether-as-space model.
every one of those things is explained by dual earth theory, and dual earth theory replaces 'gravity' with a far simpler model based on modelling space with respect to known laws. it is a simpler theory. that should render it superior, by basic principles of science: it is not based on multiple assumptions.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: LogicalKiller on April 05, 2015, 05:09:22 AM
I warned you.

And I told you none of that would surprise me.

Quote
This prick JRowe simply uses ad hoc and you can't win.


It's about winning?

Quote
So please do not respond to JRowe, because he is just a loneless troll.

Please stop reading.

You looked like you wanted to talk with JRowe like a normal discussion. I warned you. FE'ers are like children. And with children you have to win, because it's like a game, they like games. And - thanks but no thanks.

Backwards - .kcirp diputs a si ewoRJ
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: sokarul on April 05, 2015, 10:14:36 AM
You can't come back with anything because you have nothing. You will never have anything that supports anything you claim.

now my point is made clear. you offer no evidence, only baseless assertion that makes your closed-mindedness obvious.
i have offered a model that fully explains what we observe in the world, lacking only things that take resources and time to find. you say nothing against it, you reject it for no reason beyond the fact you'd rather cling to a round earth.
it seems very clear you're the one who offers nothing.
You haven't made anything clear. You keep saying you are refining your theory. I don't say anything against your theory because I don't need to. You made everything up based on nothing. Do you understand this? Aether transport theory? So baseless.
You want evidence of a round earth?
Foucault Pendulum.
Sunrise/sunsets
Seasons
24 hour sun at the south pole.
Astronomy
Chemistry/Physics
The sun picture experiment that was performed by people on this site.
Geology.

So I'm going to ask again, what do you have?

aether transport theory is not baseless when you educate yourself on the aether-as-space model.
How can I educate myself about it? You made it all up. I can' read anything about it. There is no evidence for it. You need to understand this.
Quote
every one of those things is explained by dual earth theory, and dual earth theory replaces 'gravity' with a far simpler model based on modelling space with respect to known laws. it is a simpler theory. that should render it superior, by basic principles of science: it is not based on multiple assumptions.
No, they aren't and don't claim they are. Dual earth theory would be simpler because a simple minded fool made it up.
Have any evidence yet? I notice you couldn't dismiss any of my claims.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on April 05, 2015, 11:10:45 AM
You can't come back with anything because you have nothing. You will never have anything that supports anything you claim.

now my point is made clear. you offer no evidence, only baseless assertion that makes your closed-mindedness obvious.
i have offered a model that fully explains what we observe in the world, lacking only things that take resources and time to find. you say nothing against it, you reject it for no reason beyond the fact you'd rather cling to a round earth.
it seems very clear you're the one who offers nothing.
You haven't made anything clear. You keep saying you are refining your theory. I don't say anything against your theory because I don't need to. You made everything up based on nothing. Do you understand this? Aether transport theory? So baseless.
You want evidence of a round earth?
Foucault Pendulum.
Sunrise/sunsets
Seasons
24 hour sun at the south pole.
Astronomy
Chemistry/Physics
The sun picture experiment that was performed by people on this site.
Geology.

So I'm going to ask again, what do you have?

aether transport theory is not baseless when you educate yourself on the aether-as-space model.
How can I educate myself about it? You made it all up. I can' read anything about it. There is no evidence for it. You need to understand this.
Quote
every one of those things is explained by dual earth theory, and dual earth theory replaces 'gravity' with a far simpler model based on modelling space with respect to known laws. it is a simpler theory. that should render it superior, by basic principles of science: it is not based on multiple assumptions.
No, they aren't and don't claim they are. Dual earth theory would be simpler because a simple minded fool made it up.
Have any evidence yet? I notice you couldn't dismiss any of my claims.

you can read plenty about it, i have explained it several times on this forum. at this point it's clear you will never accept any evidence i give, but you must at least admit that the mechanism makes sense, and is not baseless, as you propose. if we move through thin space, we can cross what seems to be a larger distance immeiately.
i dismissed every one of your claims, you simply ignore the fact they are explained in flat and dual earth models.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: sokarul on April 05, 2015, 11:53:45 AM
You can't come back with anything because you have nothing. You will never have anything that supports anything you claim.

now my point is made clear. you offer no evidence, only baseless assertion that makes your closed-mindedness obvious.
i have offered a model that fully explains what we observe in the world, lacking only things that take resources and time to find. you say nothing against it, you reject it for no reason beyond the fact you'd rather cling to a round earth.
it seems very clear you're the one who offers nothing.
You haven't made anything clear. You keep saying you are refining your theory. I don't say anything against your theory because I don't need to. You made everything up based on nothing. Do you understand this? Aether transport theory? So baseless.
You want evidence of a round earth?
Foucault Pendulum.
Sunrise/sunsets
Seasons
24 hour sun at the south pole.
Astronomy
Chemistry/Physics
The sun picture experiment that was performed by people on this site.
Geology.

So I'm going to ask again, what do you have?

aether transport theory is not baseless when you educate yourself on the aether-as-space model.
How can I educate myself about it? You made it all up. I can' read anything about it. There is no evidence for it. You need to understand this.
Quote
every one of those things is explained by dual earth theory, and dual earth theory replaces 'gravity' with a far simpler model based on modelling space with respect to known laws. it is a simpler theory. that should render it superior, by basic principles of science: it is not based on multiple assumptions.
No, they aren't and don't claim they are. Dual earth theory would be simpler because a simple minded fool made it up.
Have any evidence yet? I notice you couldn't dismiss any of my claims.

you can read plenty about it, i have explained it several times on this forum. at this point it's clear you will never accept any evidence i give,
You haven't provided any.

Quote
but you must at least admit that the mechanism makes sense,
No it doesn't. You have to ignore most fields of science.
Quote
and is not baseless, as you propose. if we move through thin space, we can cross what seems to be a larger distance immeiately.
It's not baseless? Ok, back up the claim that things moving in space can cross large distances immediately. 

Quote
i dismissed every one of your claims, you simply ignore the fact they are explained in flat and dual earth models.
You didn't even touch my claims. You aren't fooling anyone.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on April 05, 2015, 12:12:21 PM
You can't come back with anything because you have nothing. You will never have anything that supports anything you claim.

now my point is made clear. you offer no evidence, only baseless assertion that makes your closed-mindedness obvious.
i have offered a model that fully explains what we observe in the world, lacking only things that take resources and time to find. you say nothing against it, you reject it for no reason beyond the fact you'd rather cling to a round earth.
it seems very clear you're the one who offers nothing.
You haven't made anything clear. You keep saying you are refining your theory. I don't say anything against your theory because I don't need to. You made everything up based on nothing. Do you understand this? Aether transport theory? So baseless.
You want evidence of a round earth?
Foucault Pendulum.
Sunrise/sunsets
Seasons
24 hour sun at the south pole.
Astronomy
Chemistry/Physics
The sun picture experiment that was performed by people on this site.
Geology.

So I'm going to ask again, what do you have?

aether transport theory is not baseless when you educate yourself on the aether-as-space model.
How can I educate myself about it? You made it all up. I can' read anything about it. There is no evidence for it. You need to understand this.
Quote
every one of those things is explained by dual earth theory, and dual earth theory replaces 'gravity' with a far simpler model based on modelling space with respect to known laws. it is a simpler theory. that should render it superior, by basic principles of science: it is not based on multiple assumptions.
No, they aren't and don't claim they are. Dual earth theory would be simpler because a simple minded fool made it up.
Have any evidence yet? I notice you couldn't dismiss any of my claims.

you can read plenty about it, i have explained it several times on this forum. at this point it's clear you will never accept any evidence i give,
You haven't provided any.

Quote
but you must at least admit that the mechanism makes sense,
No it doesn't. You have to ignore most fields of science.
Quote
and is not baseless, as you propose. if we move through thin space, we can cross what seems to be a larger distance immeiately.
It's not baseless? Ok, back up the claim that things moving in space can cross large distances immediately. 

Quote
i dismissed every one of your claims, you simply ignore the fact they are explained in flat and dual earth models.
You didn't even touch my claims. You aren't fooling anyone.

i have provided evidence (observational, deductive and otherwise) multiple times, you have simply rejected it on principle.

please back up your assertions. what fields of science disprove the fact that it takes less time to cross less space than more? that's what you're saying, back it up. it seems like nonsense to me.

you apparently think that exhaustion is an argument, which seems to be a typical tactic among round earthers. every one of those arguments has been addressed. the 24 hour sun at the south pole is completely answered with even a rudimentary understanding of dual earth theory (for example), the rest of your points are way too vague to form any kind of argument.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: sokarul on April 05, 2015, 01:21:43 PM


i have provided evidence (observational, deductive and otherwise) multiple times, you have simply rejected it on principle.
Observation don't count when it's what RET predicts as well. Deductive is not evidence.

Quote
please back up your assertions. what fields of science disprove the fact that it takes less time to cross less space than more? that's what you're saying, back it up. it seems like nonsense to me.
You said it can take less time to cross more space.  You know the whole aether transport thing.
Quote from: you
and is not baseless, as you propose. if we move through thin space, we can cross what seems to be a larger distance immeiately.
Quote from: me
It's not baseless? Ok, back up the claim that things moving in space can cross large distances immediately.
I'm still waiting.

Quote
you apparently think that exhaustion is an argument, which seems to be a typical tactic among round earthers.
I am getting exhausted from asking for evidence so much.

Quote
every one of those arguments has been addressed. the 24 hour sun at the south pole is completely answered with even a rudimentary understanding of dual earth theory (for example), the rest of your points are way too vague to form any kind of argument.
You wanted to answer questions about dual earth theory and now you won't.  What are you afraid of?
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on April 05, 2015, 01:32:21 PM


i have provided evidence (observational, deductive and otherwise) multiple times, you have simply rejected it on principle.
Observation don't count when it's what RET predicts as well. Deductive is not evidence.

Quote
please back up your assertions. what fields of science disprove the fact that it takes less time to cross less space than more? that's what you're saying, back it up. it seems like nonsense to me.
You said it can take less time to cross more space.  You know the whole aether transport thing.
Quote from: you
and is not baseless, as you propose. if we move through thin space, we can cross what seems to be a larger distance immeiately.
Quote from: me
It's not baseless? Ok, back up the claim that things moving in space can cross large distances immediately.
I'm still waiting.

Quote
you apparently think that exhaustion is an argument, which seems to be a typical tactic among round earthers.
I am getting exhausted from asking for evidence so much.

Quote
every one of those arguments has been addressed. the 24 hour sun at the south pole is completely answered with even a rudimentary understanding of dual earth theory (for example), the rest of your points are way too vague to form any kind of argument.
You wanted to answer questions about dual earth theory and now you won't.  What are you afraid of?

if round earth and dual earth theory predict the same things, as you have just conceded, then the one with the least assumptions should be taken as truth. that's the explained dual earth theory, rather than round earth fantasy that's based on handwaving gravity.

i suggest you familiarize yourself with basic dual earth theory. at the equator, space is thin. (this is actually what causes both gravity, and the creation of the earth: like all things, space goes from high concentrations to low). as such, with a near zero density, it can be crossed instantly. this is thin space: the fact it is stretched to cover what seems to be a larger distance, from the perspective of different densities of space, isn't relevant. i've used the analogy of a spring before: the distace along the metal stays constant, but if you compress it, you can lay multiple springs end by end before it looks as long as a stretched out spring.

phrase your questions as questions rather than general handwaves, and make sure they are specifically relevant to dual earth theory. i have no interest in answering general questions about flat earth theory, it's very likely they have been answered elsewhere on the site, and if you're unsatisfied, make a thread. this is about dual earth theory, not general flat earth theory.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: sokarul on April 05, 2015, 01:37:23 PM
Blah blah blah...I would make a real response but you keep hiding from them.

Quote from: you
and is not baseless, as you propose. if we move through thin space, we can cross what seems to be a larger distance immeiately.
Quote from: me
It's not baseless? Ok, back up the claim that things moving in space can cross large distances immediately.
I'm still waiting.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on April 05, 2015, 01:39:43 PM
Blah blah blah...I would make a real response but you keep hiding from them.

Quote from: you
and is not baseless, as you propose. if we move through thin space, we can cross what seems to be a larger distance immeiately.
Quote from: me
It's not baseless? Ok, back up the claim that things moving in space can cross large distances immediately.
I'm still waiting.
please try to read. you're the one whose hiding from responses.

i suggest you familiarize yourself with basic dual earth theory. at the equator, space is thin. (this is actually what causes both gravity, and the creation of the earth: like all things, space goes from high concentrations to low). as such, with a near zero density, it can be crossed instantly. this is thin space: the fact it is stretched to cover what seems to be a larger distance, from the perspective of different densities of space, isn't relevant. i've used the analogy of a spring before: the distace along the metal stays constant, but if you compress it, you can lay multiple springs end by end before it looks as long as a stretched out spring.

the fact is that thinner space allows for a 'shortcut'. this is why i pointed out earlier that your argument is based on the idea that moving through less space apparently takes as much time as moving through more space: it's absurd.

if you're not going to address a single point i've made, why are you posting?
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: sokarul on April 05, 2015, 05:02:16 PM

please try to read. you're the one whose hiding from responses.

i suggest you familiarize yourself with basic dual earth theory. at the equator, space is thin. (this is actually what causes both gravity, and the creation of the earth: like all things, space goes from high concentrations to low). as such, with a near zero density, it can be crossed instantly.
Where else does that happen? It is easier to move with the wind instead of against it, but why does low density aether cause instantaneous travel? And evidence would be nice.


Quote
this is thin space: the fact it is stretched to cover what seems to be a larger distance, from the perspective of different densities of space, isn't relevant. i've used the analogy of a spring before: the distace along the metal stays constant, but if you compress it, you can lay multiple springs end by end before it looks as long as a stretched out spring. [/i]
Distances are known. Your analogy makes zero sense. You have claimed aether can apart a force on matter. Now you say it doesn't need to.

Quote
the fact is that thinner space allows for a 'shortcut'. this is why i pointed out earlier that your argument is based on the idea that moving through less space apparently takes as much time as moving through more space: it's absurd.
You are using  what equates to a pressure change to equal a distance change. Where else is this seen?
Quote
if you're not going to address a single point i've made, why are you posting?
You really need to open your eyes.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on April 06, 2015, 04:10:29 AM

please try to read. you're the one whose hiding from responses.

i suggest you familiarize yourself with basic dual earth theory. at the equator, space is thin. (this is actually what causes both gravity, and the creation of the earth: like all things, space goes from high concentrations to low). as such, with a near zero density, it can be crossed instantly.
Where else does that happen? It is easier to move with the wind instead of against it, but why does low density aether cause instantaneous travel? And evidence would be nice.


Quote
this is thin space: the fact it is stretched to cover what seems to be a larger distance, from the perspective of different densities of space, isn't relevant. i've used the analogy of a spring before: the distace along the metal stays constant, but if you compress it, you can lay multiple springs end by end before it looks as long as a stretched out spring. [/i]
Distances are known. Your analogy makes zero sense. You have claimed aether can apart a force on matter. Now you say it doesn't need to.

Quote
the fact is that thinner space allows for a 'shortcut'. this is why i pointed out earlier that your argument is based on the idea that moving through less space apparently takes as much time as moving through more space: it's absurd.
You are using  what equates to a pressure change to equal a distance change. Where else is this seen?
Quote
if you're not going to address a single point i've made, why are you posting?
You really need to open your eyes.

you don't seem to understand the concept of logical deduction. we move through space: true. we move through more space, it takes longer. if we then stretch out the first distance, so it appears to cross the same distance as the second, we can cross that in less time. this is basic logic. why on earth do you expect altering space is not going to have any effect on movement through it? i honestly can't understand how you can make such baseless claims.
i remind you yet again that we are talking about space. the old model is not relevant here. (i don't like talking about the force aspect, because it technically is true, and technically is not. it comes down to how you define force).
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: ausGeoff on April 06, 2015, 08:00:00 AM
I'm beginning to think that JRoweSceptimatic is a total loony—possibly spending far too much time sleeping in moonlight—or repeatedly forgets what his doctor told him would happen if he forgot to take his medications.

No rational human being living in the 21st century could come up with so many crack-pot notions as this guy and have any expectations of being taken seriously.  Unless he's trying to set himself up as the site's permanent village idiot..... or is that cikljamas or legion?  I get 'em all confused now that sceptimatic's gone as the prime contender for the title.

    ;D    ;D    ;D
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: sokarul on April 06, 2015, 05:05:01 PM

please try to read. you're the one whose hiding from responses.

i suggest you familiarize yourself with basic dual earth theory. at the equator, space is thin. (this is actually what causes both gravity, and the creation of the earth: like all things, space goes from high concentrations to low). as such, with a near zero density, it can be crossed instantly.
Where else does that happen? It is easier to move with the wind instead of against it, but why does low density aether cause instantaneous travel? And evidence would be nice.


Quote
this is thin space: the fact it is stretched to cover what seems to be a larger distance, from the perspective of different densities of space, isn't relevant. i've used the analogy of a spring before: the distace along the metal stays constant, but if you compress it, you can lay multiple springs end by end before it looks as long as a stretched out spring. [/i]
Distances are known. Your analogy makes zero sense. You have claimed aether can apart a force on matter. Now you say it doesn't need to.

Quote
the fact is that thinner space allows for a 'shortcut'. this is why i pointed out earlier that your argument is based on the idea that moving through less space apparently takes as much time as moving through more space: it's absurd.
You are using  what equates to a pressure change to equal a distance change. Where else is this seen?
Quote
if you're not going to address a single point i've made, why are you posting?
You really need to open your eyes.

you don't seem to understand the concept of logical deduction. we move through space: true. we move through more space, it takes longer. if we then stretch out the first distance, so it appears to cross the same distance as the second, we can cross that in less time. this is basic logic. why on earth do you expect altering space is not going to have any effect on movement through it? i honestly can't understand how you can make such baseless claims.
i remind you yet again that we are talking about space. the old model is not relevant here. (i don't like talking about the force aspect, because it technically is true, and technically is not. it comes down to how you define force).
If I was walking on a rubber floor and it took 30seconds to cross, would it take a shorter, the same time, or longer to walk across the rubber floor if it were stretched to twice it's length?
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on April 07, 2015, 02:44:28 AM

please try to read. you're the one whose hiding from responses.

i suggest you familiarize yourself with basic dual earth theory. at the equator, space is thin. (this is actually what causes both gravity, and the creation of the earth: like all things, space goes from high concentrations to low). as such, with a near zero density, it can be crossed instantly.
Where else does that happen? It is easier to move with the wind instead of against it, but why does low density aether cause instantaneous travel? And evidence would be nice.


Quote
this is thin space: the fact it is stretched to cover what seems to be a larger distance, from the perspective of different densities of space, isn't relevant. i've used the analogy of a spring before: the distace along the metal stays constant, but if you compress it, you can lay multiple springs end by end before it looks as long as a stretched out spring. [/i]
Distances are known. Your analogy makes zero sense. You have claimed aether can apart a force on matter. Now you say it doesn't need to.

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the fact is that thinner space allows for a 'shortcut'. this is why i pointed out earlier that your argument is based on the idea that moving through less space apparently takes as much time as moving through more space: it's absurd.
You are using  what equates to a pressure change to equal a distance change. Where else is this seen?
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if you're not going to address a single point i've made, why are you posting?
You really need to open your eyes.

you don't seem to understand the concept of logical deduction. we move through space: true. we move through more space, it takes longer. if we then stretch out the first distance, so it appears to cross the same distance as the second, we can cross that in less time. this is basic logic. why on earth do you expect altering space is not going to have any effect on movement through it? i honestly can't understand how you can make such baseless claims.
i remind you yet again that we are talking about space. the old model is not relevant here. (i don't like talking about the force aspect, because it technically is true, and technically is not. it comes down to how you define force).
If I was walking on a rubber floor and it took 30seconds to cross, would it take a shorter, the same time, or longer to walk across the rubber floor if it were stretched to twice it's length?

who cares? a rubber floor is not even close to space.
if you instead crossed a distance from set boundary to set boundary on the rubber floor, in set times, then stretching it would not have any effect. you would be moving from boundary to boundary in the same time, even if those boundaries were further apart.
we are talking about space, this is not the time to bring up your latext fetish.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: sokarul on April 07, 2015, 09:21:24 AM
What logic says it should take less time to cross a longer distance? An no, we are talking about aether. You just say aether is everything. It's space and air. It's what lets planes fly. It's what atoms are made out of. It's everything to you.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on April 07, 2015, 09:38:49 AM
What logic says it should take less time to cross a longer distance? An no, we are talking about aether. You just say aether is everything. It's space and air. It's what lets planes fly. It's what atoms are made out of. It's everything to you.

are you reading a word that i'm saying? it does not take less time to cross a longer distance, it takes less time to cross less distance. distance is the variable here. distance is what changes when space changes, because space is distance. can you please try to grasp that basic concept before arguing against it?
let's use a circle. to get to a point a quarter of the way around, you can do a quarter turn one way, or a three quarter turn the other way. what you're saying as that both turns must automatically take the same time, just because they go to the same place. that is utter nonsense.

aether is not air, air does not exist. it is not necessary for aether to form matter, it is simply one of many elements of dual earth theory that simplify.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Gefn on April 07, 2015, 12:36:18 PM
2 questions :

Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on April 07, 2015, 12:45:14 PM
2 questions :

  • What's the orbit of the sun and the moon (schema needed)
  • What's their respective distance from Earth (approximately)

1. i cannot draw a diagram as there are no good quality dual earth maps. currently (though this part of the model is being refined, there are two suns, and they rotate from the tropics to the equator, and beyond, their movements mirrored: one sun is on each side of the earth, each at the opposite end to the other (mirrored) so two may not be seen at once, as they function as spotlights. i do not know the path the moon takes overhead, so i cannot provide a good description of the moons just yet.
2. this is hard to say. given that there are aetheric currents between us and them, and that the sun and moon move in these currents, and that the aether is space in my model, distances are hard to gauge. speaking subjectively, i see no reason to depart from the usual flat earth measurement however.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Gefn on April 07, 2015, 01:00:04 PM
So how could you explain eclipses pathes like this one : http://eclipse.gsfc.nasa.gov/SEhistory/SEplot/SE1919May29T.pdf (http://eclipse.gsfc.nasa.gov/SEhistory/SEplot/SE1919May29T.pdf) ?
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on April 07, 2015, 02:26:57 PM
So how could you explain eclipses pathes like this one : http://eclipse.gsfc.nasa.gov/SEhistory/SEplot/SE1919May29T.pdf (https://server2.kproxy.com/servlet/redirect.srv/saun/sjclz/squix/sxmkeiad/p1/SEhistory/SEplot/SE1919May29T.pdf) ?

if you would take the time to explain one of the most unclear diagrams i have ever seen, as well as why it would be impossible in the current dual earth model (as i said, i am not certain as to the status of the sun/s), i will be happy to.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: sokarul on April 07, 2015, 05:35:34 PM
What logic says it should take less time to cross a longer distance? An no, we are talking about aether. You just say aether is everything. It's space and air. It's what lets planes fly. It's what atoms are made out of. It's everything to you.

are you reading a word that i'm saying? it does not take less time to cross a longer distance, it takes less time to cross less distance. distance is the variable here. distance is what changes when space changes, because space is distance. can you please try to grasp that basic concept before arguing against it?
So when you stretch space out it get's shorter? Can you please stay consistent.



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let's use a circle. to get to a point a quarter of the way around, you can do a quarter turn one way, or a three quarter turn the other way. what you're saying as that both turns must automatically take the same time, just because they go to the same place. that is utter nonsense.
You claim that if you take a certain length of space and travel it in a certain time, it will take less time if you take that certain length of space and stretch it out. Did you forget this?

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aether is not air, air does not exist. it is not necessary for aether to form matter, it is simply one of many elements of dual earth theory that simplify.
It's not air but you claim it replaces air. Aether can do anything it wants according to you.  Have any evidence for anything yet?
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Rama Set on April 07, 2015, 06:04:17 PM
Sokarul, jroweskeptic is saying that when aetheric density decreases, then it takes less time to cross the same distance. So the m/m (I can only assume this is the unit, which is no unit at all) has to decrease.

Oh wait, that is exactly what would happen if you stretch space out; the density would decrease.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on April 08, 2015, 05:10:59 AM
What logic says it should take less time to cross a longer distance? An no, we are talking about aether. You just say aether is everything. It's space and air. It's what lets planes fly. It's what atoms are made out of. It's everything to you.

are you reading a word that i'm saying? it does not take less time to cross a longer distance, it takes less time to cross less distance. distance is the variable here. distance is what changes when space changes, because space is distance. can you please try to grasp that basic concept before arguing against it?
So when you stretch space out it get's shorter? Can you please stay consistent.



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let's use a circle. to get to a point a quarter of the way around, you can do a quarter turn one way, or a three quarter turn the other way. what you're saying as that both turns must automatically take the same time, just because they go to the same place. that is utter nonsense.
You claim that if you take a certain length of space and travel it in a certain time, it will take less time if you take that certain length of space and stretch it out. Did you forget this?

Quote
aether is not air, air does not exist. it is not necessary for aether to form matter, it is simply one of many elements of dual earth theory that simplify.
It's not air but you claim it replaces air. Aether can do anything it wants according to you.  Have any evidence for anything yet?

what the hell are you on about? if the same amount of space is stretched so, from an external of elsewhere, it occupies more space, then clearly the amount of space present in any one area will be less. what part of that are you struggling with?
i know what i'm saying, you're being incoherent. i am saying that, if speed is kept constant, the time taken to cross a specific distance will be the same. the problem is, that supposes distance is an objective measurement: if space is thinner, then more distance (from an external perspective) must be crossed before you reach that distance from an internal perspective. i refer you yet again to the spring analogy.
learn to read you illiterate buffoon. stop trolling, and acknowledge what i am actually saying, i am sick fo repeating myself to someone who is not willing to put the slightest bit of thought into comprehending what i'm saying.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: sokarul on April 09, 2015, 06:09:59 PM
What logic says it should take less time to cross a longer distance? An no, we are talking about aether. You just say aether is everything. It's space and air. It's what lets planes fly. It's what atoms are made out of. It's everything to you.

are you reading a word that i'm saying? it does not take less time to cross a longer distance, it takes less time to cross less distance. distance is the variable here. distance is what changes when space changes, because space is distance. can you please try to grasp that basic concept before arguing against it?
So when you stretch space out it get's shorter? Can you please stay consistent.



Quote
let's use a circle. to get to a point a quarter of the way around, you can do a quarter turn one way, or a three quarter turn the other way. what you're saying as that both turns must automatically take the same time, just because they go to the same place. that is utter nonsense.
You claim that if you take a certain length of space and travel it in a certain time, it will take less time if you take that certain length of space and stretch it out. Did you forget this?

Quote
aether is not air, air does not exist. it is not necessary for aether to form matter, it is simply one of many elements of dual earth theory that simplify.
It's not air but you claim it replaces air. Aether can do anything it wants according to you.  Have any evidence for anything yet?

what the hell are you on about? if the same amount of space is stretched so, from an external of elsewhere, it occupies more space, then clearly the amount of space present in any one area will be less. what part of that are you struggling with?
If you stretch space the amount would be less, but it would be longer. It just doesn't disappear.
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i know what i'm saying, you're being incoherent. i am saying that, if speed is kept constant, the time taken to cross a specific distance will be the same. the problem is, that supposes distance is an objective measurement: if space is thinner, then more distance (from an external perspective) must be crossed before you reach that distance from an internal perspective. i refer you yet again to the spring analogy.
Yes, springs get longer when you stretch them.

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learn to read you illiterate buffoon. stop trolling, and acknowledge what i am actually saying, i am sick fo repeating myself to someone who is not willing to put the slightest bit of thought into comprehending what i'm saying.
It's hard to keep up when you keep changing what aether is capable of.
Let's simplify things.
On a scale of one to ten, what is the following density of aether/space.
When aether makes the subatomic particles that make up atoms.
When aether teleports matter.
When new density when aether flows from the density that teleports matter to some other lower density.
When aether is causing the lift of a plane.
When aether is moving the moon and stars around in a whirlpool.
The density of aether in a supposed oxygen cylinder at 3000 PSI.
The density of aether in a supposed nitrogen cylinder at 3000 PSI.
This will be helpful. 
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on April 11, 2015, 07:46:21 AM
sokarul, i have never proposed space disappears, i don't know what you're saying. clearly, however, when it is especially thin, it can be crossed instantaneously as there is very little distance from a perspective within that space.
springs appear to get longer when you stretch them; but the mass is identical, and if you measure along the material, the distance remains the same.
i have never changes what aether is capable of. if you think i have, you are clearly not understanding what i'm saying.

On a scale of one to ten, what is the following density of aether/space.
When aether makes the subatomic particles that make up atoms.

eleven. matter is formed when extreme amounts of aether are in one location, functionally changing state. it's the difference between steam and ice. technically ice is dense steam (atoms packed together), but realistically it isn't steam at all.
When aether teleports matter.
close to zerp
When new density when aether flows from the density that teleports matter to some other lower density.
i'm not sure what you're asking. both would be close to zero, near indistinguishable.
When aether is causing the lift of a plane.
maybe 3. i think of the aether on the surface of the world as the default aether, but it's fairly low, all things considered.
When aether is moving the moon and stars around in a whirlpool.
5 to 8, it's a higher density. i don't know exactly.
The density of aether in a supposed oxygen cylinder at 3000 PSI.
4 to 5, i don't know exactly.
The density of aether in a supposed nitrogen cylinder at 3000 PSI.
4 to 5, the difference to the above is going to be several decimal places in.
please note i have never denied the existence of nitrogen or oxygen, only the notion we are constantly surrounded and beaten and crushed by molecules called 'air'.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: The Ellimist on April 11, 2015, 08:57:08 AM
eleven. matter is formed when extreme amounts of aether are in one location, functionally changing state.

If aether can form matter, than it violates the law of conservation of mass.

Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on April 11, 2015, 09:02:04 AM
Quote from: JRoweSkeptic link=topic=63259.msg1678935#msg1678935
eleven. matter is formed when extreme amounts of aether are in one location, functionally changing state.
[/quote

If aether can form matter, than it violates the law of conservation of mass.

awful quoting, and do you feel like providing any evidence for why the law is relevant in this situation? (in round earth theory, if it universally held the universe would not exist. vacuum fluctuations are also a contradiction, as well as nuclear power which converts mass to energy). i would propose that there is something fundamental beneath mass which is conserved, and it is that fundamental which we interpret as mass when aether is in the form of matter.
i should also point out dual earth theory does not require aether to be able to become matter, it is simply a way to reduce the number of assumptions.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: The Ellimist on April 11, 2015, 10:13:02 AM
Quote from: JRoweSkeptic link=topic=63259.msg1678935#msg1678935
eleven. matter is formed when extreme amounts of aether are in one location, functionally changing state.
[/quote

If aether can form matter, than it violates the law of conservation of mass.

awful quoting, and do you feel like providing any evidence for why the law is relevant in this situation? (in round earth theory, if it universally held the universe would not exist. vacuum fluctuations are also a contradiction, as well as nuclear power which converts mass to energy). i would propose that there is something fundamental beneath mass which is conserved, and it is that fundamental which we interpret as mass when aether is in the form of matter.
i should also point out dual earth theory does not require aether to be able to become matter, it is simply a way to reduce the number of assumptions.

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vacuum fluctuations are also a contradiction
,

No they aren't (http://www.quora.com/Does-quantum-vacuum-fluctuation-violate-the-conservation-of-energy)

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as well as nuclear power which converts mass to energy)

E=mc2, mass and energy are the same thing. Converting mass to energy does not violate conservation of mass because the total mass in the universe remains the same.

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i would propose that there is something fundamental beneath mass which is conserved, and it is that fundamental which we interpret as mass when aether is in the form of matter.

But this proposal would be based on faulty assumptions. Even if you could prove any of this, you don't want to, you just want us to accept it as true with no evidence. That's not going to happen.

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i should also point out dual earth theory does not require aether to be able to become matter, it is simply a way to reduce the number of assumptions.

If space can turn into matter, and space has no observable limit and matter does, then that violates the conservation of mass because it would allow an infinite amount of matter to be produced. This adds more assumptions because we are 1) Assuming space can form matter, even though this is not observed, and 2) that the law of conservation of mass can be violated.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on April 11, 2015, 11:30:03 AM
if you're not interested in mass, just the sum total of matter/energy, you have nothing to worry about.
i notice you also ignored my other example: there is an occasion when the law did not apply, otherwise the universe would not exist.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: The Ellimist on April 11, 2015, 11:40:15 AM

if you're not interested in mass, just the sum total of matter/energy, you have nothing to worry about.
i notice you also ignored my other example: there is an occasion when the law did not apply, otherwise the universe would not exist.

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if you're not interested in mass, just the sum total of matter/energy, you have nothing to worry about.
But if the infinite amount of space can be converted into matter, then the sum total of matter/energy will be increased, violating the law of conservation of mass.

Quote
i notice you also ignored my other example: there is an occasion when the law did not apply, otherwise the universe would not exist.

Your point? The law clearly applies now.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on April 11, 2015, 11:46:32 AM

if you're not interested in mass, just the sum total of matter/energy, you have nothing to worry about.
i notice you also ignored my other example: there is an occasion when the law did not apply, otherwise the universe would not exist.

Quote
if you're not interested in mass, just the sum total of matter/energy, you have nothing to worry about.
But if the infinite amount of space can be converted into matter, then the sum total of matter/energy will be increased, violating the law of conservation of mass.

Quote
i notice you also ignored my other example: there is an occasion when the law did not apply, otherwise the universe would not exist.

Your point? The law clearly applies now.

the law clearly applies to what we observe. the exception in my theory is for space to become matter: this is where the universe came from (which round earth theory has no explanation for). the exception is the same as the one in round earth: where matter/energy originally came from.

you have no leg to stand on. in addition, you're not interested in mass. space may be related to energy, or maybe it is a third part of the energy/matter duo. 
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: The Ellimist on April 11, 2015, 11:58:43 AM

if you're not interested in mass, just the sum total of matter/energy, you have nothing to worry about.
i notice you also ignored my other example: there is an occasion when the law did not apply, otherwise the universe would not exist.

Quote
if you're not interested in mass, just the sum total of matter/energy, you have nothing to worry about.
But if the infinite amount of space can be converted into matter, then the sum total of matter/energy will be increased, violating the law of conservation of mass.

Quote
i notice you also ignored my other example: there is an occasion when the law did not apply, otherwise the universe would not exist.

Your point? The law clearly applies now.

the law clearly applies to what we observe. the exception in my theory is for space to become matter: this is where the universe came from (which round earth theory has no explanation for). the exception is the same as the one in round earth: where matter/energy originally came from.

Except for the fact that you cannot verify that space has any of the properties you say they have.

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you have no leg to stand on. in addition, you're not interested in mass. space may be related to energy, or maybe it is a third part of the energy/matter duo.

But you have no proof that it is. If you incorporate that into your theory then it will be an additional assumption.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on April 11, 2015, 12:01:24 PM

if you're not interested in mass, just the sum total of matter/energy, you have nothing to worry about.
i notice you also ignored my other example: there is an occasion when the law did not apply, otherwise the universe would not exist.

Quote
if you're not interested in mass, just the sum total of matter/energy, you have nothing to worry about.
But if the infinite amount of space can be converted into matter, then the sum total of matter/energy will be increased, violating the law of conservation of mass.

Quote
i notice you also ignored my other example: there is an occasion when the law did not apply, otherwise the universe would not exist.

Your point? The law clearly applies now.

the law clearly applies to what we observe. the exception in my theory is for space to become matter: this is where the universe came from (which round earth theory has no explanation for). the exception is the same as the one in round earth: where matter/energy originally came from.

Except for the fact that you cannot verify that space has any of the properties you say they have.

Quote
you have no leg to stand on. in addition, you're not interested in mass. space may be related to energy, or maybe it is a third part of the energy/matter duo.

But you have no proof that it is. If you incorporate that into your theory then it will be an additional assumption.

it is simpler to say 'space can become matter' rather than both 'something else ebyond anything known exists' and ''that something ele can create matter and energy and space'.

you are being a waste of time again. i've given you my evidence before, the fact is you reject it because you are too closed-minded to contemplate anything outside your narrow view of the world. look at this thread, alone: you concede the argument, then hurry away to your old stock fall-back without admitting you were utterly wrong.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: The Ellimist on April 11, 2015, 12:52:09 PM

if you're not interested in mass, just the sum total of matter/energy, you have nothing to worry about.
i notice you also ignored my other example: there is an occasion when the law did not apply, otherwise the universe would not exist.

Quote
if you're not interested in mass, just the sum total of matter/energy, you have nothing to worry about.
But if the infinite amount of space can be converted into matter, then the sum total of matter/energy will be increased, violating the law of conservation of mass.

Quote
i notice you also ignored my other example: there is an occasion when the law did not apply, otherwise the universe would not exist.

Your point? The law clearly applies now.

the law clearly applies to what we observe. the exception in my theory is for space to become matter: this is where the universe came from (which round earth theory has no explanation for). the exception is the same as the one in round earth: where matter/energy originally came from.

Except for the fact that you cannot verify that space has any of the properties you say they have.

Quote
you have no leg to stand on. in addition, you're not interested in mass. space may be related to energy, or maybe it is a third part of the energy/matter duo.

But you have no proof that it is. If you incorporate that into your theory then it will be an additional assumption.

Quote
it is simpler to say 'space can become matter' rather than both 'something else ebyond anything known exists' and ''that something ele can create matter and energy and space'.

you are being a waste of time again. i've given you my evidence before, the fact is you reject it because you are too closed-minded to contemplate anything outside your narrow view of the world. look at this thread, alone: you concede the argument, then hurry away to your old stock fall-back without admitting you were utterly wrong.

Quote
it is simpler to say 'space can become matter' rather than both 'something else ebyond anything known exists' and ''that something ele can create matter and energy and space'.

No it is not. We have proof that the Big Bang occurred. We cannot prove space can become matter. If you have to assume that space can become matter, then it is not the simplest explanation.

Quote
you are being a waste of time again. i've given you my evidence before, the fact is you reject it because you are too closed-minded to contemplate anything outside your narrow view of the world.

I reject it because there is no evidence you can show me.

Quote
look at this thread, alone: you concede the argument, then hurry away to your old stock fall-back without admitting you were utterly wrong.

I have never conceded any argument to you. I have only commented on this thread recently, as seen below:

eleven. matter is formed when extreme amounts of aether are in one location, functionally changing state.

If aether can form matter, than it violates the law of conservation of mass.


Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on April 11, 2015, 12:55:18 PM

if you're not interested in mass, just the sum total of matter/energy, you have nothing to worry about.
i notice you also ignored my other example: there is an occasion when the law did not apply, otherwise the universe would not exist.

Quote
if you're not interested in mass, just the sum total of matter/energy, you have nothing to worry about.
But if the infinite amount of space can be converted into matter, then the sum total of matter/energy will be increased, violating the law of conservation of mass.

Quote
i notice you also ignored my other example: there is an occasion when the law did not apply, otherwise the universe would not exist.

Your point? The law clearly applies now.

the law clearly applies to what we observe. the exception in my theory is for space to become matter: this is where the universe came from (which round earth theory has no explanation for). the exception is the same as the one in round earth: where matter/energy originally came from.

Except for the fact that you cannot verify that space has any of the properties you say they have.

Quote
you have no leg to stand on. in addition, you're not interested in mass. space may be related to energy, or maybe it is a third part of the energy/matter duo.

But you have no proof that it is. If you incorporate that into your theory then it will be an additional assumption.

Quote
it is simpler to say 'space can become matter' rather than both 'something else ebyond anything known exists' and ''that something ele can create matter and energy and space'.

you are being a waste of time again. i've given you my evidence before, the fact is you reject it because you are too closed-minded to contemplate anything outside your narrow view of the world. look at this thread, alone: you concede the argument, then hurry away to your old stock fall-back without admitting you were utterly wrong.

Quote
it is simpler to say 'space can become matter' rather than both 'something else ebyond anything known exists' and ''that something ele can create matter and energy and space'.

No it is not. We have proof that the Big Bang occurred. We cannot prove space can become matter. If you have to assume that space can become matter, then it is not the simplest explanation.

Quote
you are being a waste of time again. i've given you my evidence before, the fact is you reject it because you are too closed-minded to contemplate anything outside your narrow view of the world.

I reject it because there is no evidence you can show me.

Quote
look at this thread, alone: you concede the argument, then hurry away to your old stock fall-back without admitting you were utterly wrong.

I have never conceded any argument to you. I have only commented on this thread recently, as seen below:

eleven. matter is formed when extreme amounts of aether are in one location, functionally changing state.

If aether can form matter, than it violates the law of conservation of mass.



we have proof matter came from somewhere. i just tie it to something that already exists. basic stuff. it's not necessary, just simpler.
it's a waste of time talking to you. when you're actually interested in having a discussion rather than closed-mindedly asserting and repeating yourself even when discredited, come back and let me know.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: The Ellimist on April 11, 2015, 01:10:19 PM

if you're not interested in mass, just the sum total of matter/energy, you have nothing to worry about.
i notice you also ignored my other example: there is an occasion when the law did not apply, otherwise the universe would not exist.

Quote
if you're not interested in mass, just the sum total of matter/energy, you have nothing to worry about.
But if the infinite amount of space can be converted into matter, then the sum total of matter/energy will be increased, violating the law of conservation of mass.

Quote
i notice you also ignored my other example: there is an occasion when the law did not apply, otherwise the universe would not exist.

Your point? The law clearly applies now.

the law clearly applies to what we observe. the exception in my theory is for space to become matter: this is where the universe came from (which round earth theory has no explanation for). the exception is the same as the one in round earth: where matter/energy originally came from.

Except for the fact that you cannot verify that space has any of the properties you say they have.

Quote
you have no leg to stand on. in addition, you're not interested in mass. space may be related to energy, or maybe it is a third part of the energy/matter duo.

But you have no proof that it is. If you incorporate that into your theory then it will be an additional assumption.

Quote
it is simpler to say 'space can become matter' rather than both 'something else ebyond anything known exists' and ''that something ele can create matter and energy and space'.

you are being a waste of time again. i've given you my evidence before, the fact is you reject it because you are too closed-minded to contemplate anything outside your narrow view of the world. look at this thread, alone: you concede the argument, then hurry away to your old stock fall-back without admitting you were utterly wrong.

Quote
it is simpler to say 'space can become matter' rather than both 'something else ebyond anything known exists' and ''that something ele can create matter and energy and space'.

No it is not. We have proof that the Big Bang occurred. We cannot prove space can become matter. If you have to assume that space can become matter, then it is not the simplest explanation.

Quote
you are being a waste of time again. i've given you my evidence before, the fact is you reject it because you are too closed-minded to contemplate anything outside your narrow view of the world.

I reject it because there is no evidence you can show me.

Quote
look at this thread, alone: you concede the argument, then hurry away to your old stock fall-back without admitting you were utterly wrong.

I have never conceded any argument to you. I have only commented on this thread recently, as seen below:

eleven. matter is formed when extreme amounts of aether are in one location, functionally changing state.

If aether can form matter, than it violates the law of conservation of mass.



we have proof matter came from somewhere. i just tie it to something that already exists. basic stuff. it's not necessary, just simpler.
it's a waste of time talking to you. when you're actually interested in having a discussion rather than closed-mindedly asserting and repeating yourself even when discredited, come back and let me know.

Quote
we have proof matter came from somewhere. i just tie it to something that already exists. basic stuff.
BUT THE MECHANISM FOR HOW SPACE MAKES MATTER IS UNOBSERVED .. You say that space forms matter, but we never see this anywhere. It doesn't predict anything. It doesn't correspond to the real world in any way.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: LogicalKiller on April 12, 2015, 06:02:31 AM
And you still guys fight with this idiot, and from what I see if you couldn't change his mind in week, you wouldn't change his mind for years.


it's a waste of time talking to JRowe
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on April 12, 2015, 07:48:31 AM

if you're not interested in mass, just the sum total of matter/energy, you have nothing to worry about.
i notice you also ignored my other example: there is an occasion when the law did not apply, otherwise the universe would not exist.

Quote
if you're not interested in mass, just the sum total of matter/energy, you have nothing to worry about.
But if the infinite amount of space can be converted into matter, then the sum total of matter/energy will be increased, violating the law of conservation of mass.

Quote
i notice you also ignored my other example: there is an occasion when the law did not apply, otherwise the universe would not exist.

Your point? The law clearly applies now.

the law clearly applies to what we observe. the exception in my theory is for space to become matter: this is where the universe came from (which round earth theory has no explanation for). the exception is the same as the one in round earth: where matter/energy originally came from.

Except for the fact that you cannot verify that space has any of the properties you say they have.

Quote
you have no leg to stand on. in addition, you're not interested in mass. space may be related to energy, or maybe it is a third part of the energy/matter duo.

But you have no proof that it is. If you incorporate that into your theory then it will be an additional assumption.

Quote
it is simpler to say 'space can become matter' rather than both 'something else ebyond anything known exists' and ''that something ele can create matter and energy and space'.

you are being a waste of time again. i've given you my evidence before, the fact is you reject it because you are too closed-minded to contemplate anything outside your narrow view of the world. look at this thread, alone: you concede the argument, then hurry away to your old stock fall-back without admitting you were utterly wrong.

Quote
it is simpler to say 'space can become matter' rather than both 'something else ebyond anything known exists' and ''that something ele can create matter and energy and space'.

No it is not. We have proof that the Big Bang occurred. We cannot prove space can become matter. If you have to assume that space can become matter, then it is not the simplest explanation.

Quote
you are being a waste of time again. i've given you my evidence before, the fact is you reject it because you are too closed-minded to contemplate anything outside your narrow view of the world.

I reject it because there is no evidence you can show me.

Quote
look at this thread, alone: you concede the argument, then hurry away to your old stock fall-back without admitting you were utterly wrong.

I have never conceded any argument to you. I have only commented on this thread recently, as seen below:

eleven. matter is formed when extreme amounts of aether are in one location, functionally changing state.

If aether can form matter, than it violates the law of conservation of mass.



we have proof matter came from somewhere. i just tie it to something that already exists. basic stuff. it's not necessary, just simpler.
it's a waste of time talking to you. when you're actually interested in having a discussion rather than closed-mindedly asserting and repeating yourself even when discredited, come back and let me know.

Quote
we have proof matter came from somewhere. i just tie it to something that already exists. basic stuff.
BUT THE MECHANISM FOR HOW SPACE MAKES MATTER IS UNOBSERVED .. You say that space forms matter, but we never see this anywhere. It doesn't predict anything. It doesn't correspond to the real world in any way.

how many times do i need to repeat myself? that mechanism is not necessary to the theory. particles moving through space work just as well, and will have the same effect.
we also have no observed in any way the process which could create the universe. that does not mean it has not happened, i just see no reason to suppose baselessly the existence of some separate entity beyond anything we know with that ability, when it is not needed.
are you going to bother to acknowledge a word i've said this time, or do you enjoy yelling too much?
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: The Ellimist on April 12, 2015, 09:01:27 AM

if you're not interested in mass, just the sum total of matter/energy, you have nothing to worry about.
i notice you also ignored my other example: there is an occasion when the law did not apply, otherwise the universe would not exist.

Quote
if you're not interested in mass, just the sum total of matter/energy, you have nothing to worry about.
But if the infinite amount of space can be converted into matter, then the sum total of matter/energy will be increased, violating the law of conservation of mass.

Quote
i notice you also ignored my other example: there is an occasion when the law did not apply, otherwise the universe would not exist.

Your point? The law clearly applies now.

the law clearly applies to what we observe. the exception in my theory is for space to become matter: this is where the universe came from (which round earth theory has no explanation for). the exception is the same as the one in round earth: where matter/energy originally came from.

Except for the fact that you cannot verify that space has any of the properties you say they have.

Quote
you have no leg to stand on. in addition, you're not interested in mass. space may be related to energy, or maybe it is a third part of the energy/matter duo.

But you have no proof that it is. If you incorporate that into your theory then it will be an additional assumption.

Quote
it is simpler to say 'space can become matter' rather than both 'something else ebyond anything known exists' and ''that something ele can create matter and energy and space'.

you are being a waste of time again. i've given you my evidence before, the fact is you reject it because you are too closed-minded to contemplate anything outside your narrow view of the world. look at this thread, alone: you concede the argument, then hurry away to your old stock fall-back without admitting you were utterly wrong.

Quote
it is simpler to say 'space can become matter' rather than both 'something else ebyond anything known exists' and ''that something ele can create matter and energy and space'.

No it is not. We have proof that the Big Bang occurred. We cannot prove space can become matter. If you have to assume that space can become matter, then it is not the simplest explanation.

Quote
you are being a waste of time again. i've given you my evidence before, the fact is you reject it because you are too closed-minded to contemplate anything outside your narrow view of the world.

I reject it because there is no evidence you can show me.

Quote
look at this thread, alone: you concede the argument, then hurry away to your old stock fall-back without admitting you were utterly wrong.

I have never conceded any argument to you. I have only commented on this thread recently, as seen below:

eleven. matter is formed when extreme amounts of aether are in one location, functionally changing state.

If aether can form matter, than it violates the law of conservation of mass.



we have proof matter came from somewhere. i just tie it to something that already exists. basic stuff. it's not necessary, just simpler.
it's a waste of time talking to you. when you're actually interested in having a discussion rather than closed-mindedly asserting and repeating yourself even when discredited, come back and let me know.

Quote
we have proof matter came from somewhere. i just tie it to something that already exists. basic stuff.
BUT THE MECHANISM FOR HOW SPACE MAKES MATTER IS UNOBSERVED .. You say that space forms matter, but we never see this anywhere. It doesn't predict anything. It doesn't correspond to the real world in any way.

how many times do i need to repeat myself? that mechanism is not necessary to the theory. particles moving through space work just as well, and will have the same effect.
we also have no observed in any way the process which could create the universe. that does not mean it has not happened, i just see no reason to suppose baselessly the existence of some separate entity beyond anything we know with that ability, when it is not needed.
are you going to bother to acknowledge a word i've said this time, or do you enjoy yelling too much?

Quote
how many times do i need to repeat myself? that mechanism is not necessary to the theory.

Yes it is. If you're going to say it can happen, you have to show how it can happen, otherwise you are asserting.

Quote
we also have no observed in any way the process which could create the universe.

Yes, but at least we know one possible way it could have happened. Hint: you mentioned it before.
Quote
i just see no reason to suppose baselessly the existence of some separate entity beyond anything we know with that ability,

Already told you, you mentioned something before that scientists say could have caused the universe. Where does that put your proposal that space can create matter, which we see nowhere happening?
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on April 12, 2015, 01:56:08 PM

if you're not interested in mass, just the sum total of matter/energy, you have nothing to worry about.
i notice you also ignored my other example: there is an occasion when the law did not apply, otherwise the universe would not exist.

Quote
if you're not interested in mass, just the sum total of matter/energy, you have nothing to worry about.
But if the infinite amount of space can be converted into matter, then the sum total of matter/energy will be increased, violating the law of conservation of mass.

Quote
i notice you also ignored my other example: there is an occasion when the law did not apply, otherwise the universe would not exist.

Your point? The law clearly applies now.

the law clearly applies to what we observe. the exception in my theory is for space to become matter: this is where the universe came from (which round earth theory has no explanation for). the exception is the same as the one in round earth: where matter/energy originally came from.

Except for the fact that you cannot verify that space has any of the properties you say they have.

Quote
you have no leg to stand on. in addition, you're not interested in mass. space may be related to energy, or maybe it is a third part of the energy/matter duo.

But you have no proof that it is. If you incorporate that into your theory then it will be an additional assumption.

Quote
it is simpler to say 'space can become matter' rather than both 'something else ebyond anything known exists' and ''that something ele can create matter and energy and space'.

you are being a waste of time again. i've given you my evidence before, the fact is you reject it because you are too closed-minded to contemplate anything outside your narrow view of the world. look at this thread, alone: you concede the argument, then hurry away to your old stock fall-back without admitting you were utterly wrong.

Quote
it is simpler to say 'space can become matter' rather than both 'something else ebyond anything known exists' and ''that something ele can create matter and energy and space'.

No it is not. We have proof that the Big Bang occurred. We cannot prove space can become matter. If you have to assume that space can become matter, then it is not the simplest explanation.

Quote
you are being a waste of time again. i've given you my evidence before, the fact is you reject it because you are too closed-minded to contemplate anything outside your narrow view of the world.

I reject it because there is no evidence you can show me.

Quote
look at this thread, alone: you concede the argument, then hurry away to your old stock fall-back without admitting you were utterly wrong.

I have never conceded any argument to you. I have only commented on this thread recently, as seen below:

eleven. matter is formed when extreme amounts of aether are in one location, functionally changing state.

If aether can form matter, than it violates the law of conservation of mass.



we have proof matter came from somewhere. i just tie it to something that already exists. basic stuff. it's not necessary, just simpler.
it's a waste of time talking to you. when you're actually interested in having a discussion rather than closed-mindedly asserting and repeating yourself even when discredited, come back and let me know.

Quote
we have proof matter came from somewhere. i just tie it to something that already exists. basic stuff.
BUT THE MECHANISM FOR HOW SPACE MAKES MATTER IS UNOBSERVED .. You say that space forms matter, but we never see this anywhere. It doesn't predict anything. It doesn't correspond to the real world in any way.

how many times do i need to repeat myself? that mechanism is not necessary to the theory. particles moving through space work just as well, and will have the same effect.
we also have no observed in any way the process which could create the universe. that does not mean it has not happened, i just see no reason to suppose baselessly the existence of some separate entity beyond anything we know with that ability, when it is not needed.
are you going to bother to acknowledge a word i've said this time, or do you enjoy yelling too much?

Quote
how many times do i need to repeat myself? that mechanism is not necessary to the theory.

Yes it is. If you're going to say it can happen, you have to show how it can happen, otherwise you are asserting.

Quote
we also have no observed in any way the process which could create the universe.

Yes, but at least we know one possible way it could have happened. Hint: you mentioned it before.
Quote
i just see no reason to suppose baselessly the existence of some separate entity beyond anything we know with that ability,

Already told you, you mentioned something before that scientists say could have caused the universe. Where does that put your proposal that space can create matter, which we see nowhere happening?

so, no more than assertion. the only proposed mechanism i've mentioned is quantum fluctuations, but they do not exist for any length of time, by definition. they are not a valid explanation for the universe, and they have never been observed to occur so yet again by your requirements they cannot be used.
stop with the hypocrisy and pay attention to what i am actually saying.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: The Ellimist on April 12, 2015, 07:15:35 PM

if you're not interested in mass, just the sum total of matter/energy, you have nothing to worry about.
i notice you also ignored my other example: there is an occasion when the law did not apply, otherwise the universe would not exist.

Quote
if you're not interested in mass, just the sum total of matter/energy, you have nothing to worry about.
But if the infinite amount of space can be converted into matter, then the sum total of matter/energy will be increased, violating the law of conservation of mass.

Quote
i notice you also ignored my other example: there is an occasion when the law did not apply, otherwise the universe would not exist.

Your point? The law clearly applies now.

the law clearly applies to what we observe. the exception in my theory is for space to become matter: this is where the universe came from (which round earth theory has no explanation for). the exception is the same as the one in round earth: where matter/energy originally came from.

Except for the fact that you cannot verify that space has any of the properties you say they have.

Quote
you have no leg to stand on. in addition, you're not interested in mass. space may be related to energy, or maybe it is a third part of the energy/matter duo.

But you have no proof that it is. If you incorporate that into your theory then it will be an additional assumption.

Quote
it is simpler to say 'space can become matter' rather than both 'something else ebyond anything known exists' and ''that something ele can create matter and energy and space'.

you are being a waste of time again. i've given you my evidence before, the fact is you reject it because you are too closed-minded to contemplate anything outside your narrow view of the world. look at this thread, alone: you concede the argument, then hurry away to your old stock fall-back without admitting you were utterly wrong.

Quote
it is simpler to say 'space can become matter' rather than both 'something else ebyond anything known exists' and ''that something ele can create matter and energy and space'.

No it is not. We have proof that the Big Bang occurred. We cannot prove space can become matter. If you have to assume that space can become matter, then it is not the simplest explanation.

Quote
you are being a waste of time again. i've given you my evidence before, the fact is you reject it because you are too closed-minded to contemplate anything outside your narrow view of the world.

I reject it because there is no evidence you can show me.

Quote
look at this thread, alone: you concede the argument, then hurry away to your old stock fall-back without admitting you were utterly wrong.

I have never conceded any argument to you. I have only commented on this thread recently, as seen below:

eleven. matter is formed when extreme amounts of aether are in one location, functionally changing state.

If aether can form matter, than it violates the law of conservation of mass.



we have proof matter came from somewhere. i just tie it to something that already exists. basic stuff. it's not necessary, just simpler.
it's a waste of time talking to you. when you're actually interested in having a discussion rather than closed-mindedly asserting and repeating yourself even when discredited, come back and let me know.

Quote
we have proof matter came from somewhere. i just tie it to something that already exists. basic stuff.
BUT THE MECHANISM FOR HOW SPACE MAKES MATTER IS UNOBSERVED .. You say that space forms matter, but we never see this anywhere. It doesn't predict anything. It doesn't correspond to the real world in any way.

how many times do i need to repeat myself? that mechanism is not necessary to the theory. particles moving through space work just as well, and will have the same effect.
we also have no observed in any way the process which could create the universe. that does not mean it has not happened, i just see no reason to suppose baselessly the existence of some separate entity beyond anything we know with that ability, when it is not needed.
are you going to bother to acknowledge a word i've said this time, or do you enjoy yelling too much?

Quote
how many times do i need to repeat myself? that mechanism is not necessary to the theory.

Yes it is. If you're going to say it can happen, you have to show how it can happen, otherwise you are asserting.

Quote
we also have no observed in any way the process which could create the universe.

Yes, but at least we know one possible way it could have happened. Hint: you mentioned it before.
Quote
i just see no reason to suppose baselessly the existence of some separate entity beyond anything we know with that ability,

Already told you, you mentioned something before that scientists say could have caused the universe. Where does that put your proposal that space can create matter, which we see nowhere happening?

so, no more than assertion. the only proposed mechanism i've mentioned is quantum fluctuations, but they do not exist for any length of time, by definition. they are not a valid explanation for the universe, and they have never been observed to occur so yet again by your requirements they cannot be used.
stop with the hypocrisy and pay attention to what i am actually saying.

Quantum fluctuations have been observed to occur, that's how we know about them.

Quote
he only proposed mechanism i've mentioned is quantum fluctuations, but they do not exist for any length of time, by definition.
Doesn't matter. Here is  an article that explains  (https://www.astrosociety.org/publications/a-universe-from-nothing/)

Quote
What produced the energy before inflation? This is perhaps the ultimate question. As crazy as it might seem, the energy may have come out of nothing! The meaning of “nothing” is somewhat ambiguous here. It might be the vacuum in some pre-existing space and time, or it could be nothing at all – that is, all concepts of space and time were created with the universe itself.

Quantum theory, and specifically Heisenberg’s uncertainty principle, provide a natural explanation for how that energy may have come out of nothing. Throughout the universe, particles and antiparticles spontaneously form and quickly annihilate each other without violating the law of energy conservation. These spontaneous births and deaths of so-called “virtual particle” pairs are known as “quantum fluctuations.” Indeed, laboratory experiments have proven that quantum fluctuations occur everywhere, all the time. Virtual particle pairs (such as electrons and positrons) directly affect the energy levels of atoms, and the predicted energy levels disagree with the experimentally measured levels unless quantum fluctuations are taken into account.

Perhaps many quantum fluctuations occurred before the birth of our universe. Most of them quickly disappeared. But one lived sufficiently long and had the right conditions for inflation to have been initiated. Thereafter, the original tiny volume inflated by an enormous factor, and our macroscopic universe was born. The original particle-antiparticle pair (or pairs) may have subsequently annihilated each other – but even if they didn’t, the violation of energy conservation would be minuscule, not large enough to be measurable.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: FalseProphet on April 12, 2015, 07:45:58 PM
This stretched aether space concept is actually the ingenious part of his speculations. I do not say that it has any scientific worth, but I find it somewhat ingenious. The problem is that he can't really express in clear words what he means by that, but I think I understand it now. The analogy with the stretched spring is not so bad.

The idea that aether=space condenses to matter of course violates the conservation of mass. But who knows, maybe this law is just a special case of a more general law. Einstein tried for a time to reduce physics to geometry, in an analogous way as biology had been reduced to chemistry and chemistry to physics. If that really will be possible some day, matter and energy would indeed be some form of "condensed space".
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: mikewolf13 on April 21, 2015, 04:34:42 PM
I understand the intuitive reaction that the world appears flat, therefore it is. A round earth is not intuitive, nor in most case obvious to a casual observer.

What i don't understand JRowe, is how you can reject a round earth on this basis, and then subscribe to a "theory" that includes Aether with characteristics that cannot be defined nor measured,to justify things like being instantaneously transported to other side of the earth and light being also transported,  to give the illusion you have not move to the other side.

You claim neither air nor gravity is real and that we "breathe" only for heat transfer with no empirical evidence whatsoever for any of these assertions. You have subscribed to conspiracy theories which again are matters only of speculation without any hard evidence.


How is any of this consistent with believing what is simple and observable?
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on April 22, 2015, 05:51:40 AM
I understand the intuitive reaction that the world appears flat, therefore it is. A round earth is not intuitive, nor in most case obvious to a casual observer.

What i don't understand JRowe, is how you can reject a round earth on this basis, and then subscribe to a "theory" that includes Aether with characteristics that cannot be defined nor measured,to justify things like being instantaneously transported to other side of the earth and light being also transported,  to give the illusion you have not move to the other side.

You claim neither air nor gravity is real and that we "breathe" only for heat transfer with no empirical evidence whatsoever for any of these assertions. You have subscribed to conspiracy theories which again are matters only of speculation without any hard evidence.


How is any of this consistent with believing what is simple and observable?

this is simple and observable. we can observe there is no air (open your eyes: we can feel a grain of sand, yet apparently do not feel billions of molecules hitting them), we can see the world is flat, everything is just a simple deduction.
gravity does not need to be real, and even round earth scientists admit they do not understand what they've said about it. aether in the dual earth model is simply space, which we know exists (as we have to exist in something), so that is also simple. Everything relies on known traits and logical deductions.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Rama Set on April 22, 2015, 10:30:39 AM

this is simple and observable. we can observe there is no air (open your eyes: we can feel a grain of sand, yet apparently do not feel billions of molecules hitting them),

Why should a molecule be detectable by a cellular structure?

Quote
we can see the world is flat, everything is just a simple deduction.

If you use precision tools, like a theodolite, you see the world is no flat.

Quote
gravity does not need to be real, and even round earth scientists admit they do not understand what they've said about it.
 

They understand what they say, they just know that at some point our understanding of gravity will likely topple either Quantum Mechanics or General Relativity as an accurate theory in certain regimes.

Quote
aether in the dual earth model is simply space, which we know exists (as we have to exist in something), so that is also simple. Everything relies on known traits and logical deductions.

Logic is something you are terrible at.  Please go to school.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on April 22, 2015, 10:53:54 AM
rama, this thread is about dual earth theory, if you have nothing except topic changes, quetsions to ask about general flat earth theory, or personal attacks, don't post here.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: sokarul on April 22, 2015, 10:56:34 AM
What reaction goes on in an airplane turbine engine?
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on April 22, 2015, 11:03:16 AM
What reaction goes on in an airplane turbine engine?

what the hell are you going on about now?
make your questions clearer. what is your problem with air turbine engines? given that force may be imparted, i see no problem.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: MaNaeSWolf on April 22, 2015, 11:06:58 AM
What observation has been made that describes the teleportation from one "earth side" to the other?
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: sokarul on April 22, 2015, 11:17:26 AM
What reaction goes on in an airplane turbine engine?

what the hell are you going on about now?
make your questions clearer. what is your problem with air turbine engines? given that force may be imparted, i see no problem.
What chemical reaction goes on inside airplane jet turbine engines?
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on April 23, 2015, 07:10:22 AM
What observation has been made that describes the teleportation from one "earth side" to the other?

it is a logical deduction to say such transportation is possible. i dislike the term teleportation since refining the theory, as it is very misleading. given that aether is space, it is simply moving through space as we do the rest of the time.
a spring analogy is my favorite. the length of metal, measuring along it, remains constant. when it is stretched out, it will take several steps to cross: when it is compressed, it could be smaller than your foot.

that is the deductive evidence for the mechanism: it is logical. observational evidence simply comes from the fact we can cross.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on April 23, 2015, 07:12:41 AM
What reaction goes on in an airplane turbine engine?

what the hell are you going on about now?
make your questions clearer. what is your problem with air turbine engines? given that force may be imparted, i see no problem.
What chemical reaction goes on inside airplane jet turbine engines?

to my knowledge, none, but i have had no cause to examine the inner workings of turbine engines and i may well be wrong. i yet again ask you to be clearer.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: sokarul on April 23, 2015, 09:20:33 AM
What reaction goes on in an airplane turbine engine?

what the hell are you going on about now?
make your questions clearer. what is your problem with air turbine engines? given that force may be imparted, i see no problem.
What chemical reaction goes on inside airplane jet turbine engines?

to my knowledge, none, but i have had no cause to examine the inner workings of turbine engines and i may well be wrong. i yet again ask you to be clearer.
A commercial jet airplane contains fuel tanks. Those tanks contain jet fuel. The jet fuel is pumped to the jet engines and the airplane goes forward. What happens to the jet fuel in the engine?
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: sokarul on April 24, 2015, 02:06:03 PM
What reaction goes on in an airplane turbine engine?

what the hell are you going on about now?
make your questions clearer. what is your problem with air turbine engines? given that force may be imparted, i see no problem.
What chemical reaction goes on inside airplane jet turbine engines?

to my knowledge, none, but i have had no cause to examine the inner workings of turbine engines and i may well be wrong. i yet again ask you to be clearer.
A commercial jet airplane contains fuel tanks. Those tanks contain jet fuel. The jet fuel is pumped to the jet engines and the airplane goes forward. What happens to the jet fuel in the engine?
I was hoping for an answer.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Symptom on April 24, 2015, 02:21:52 PM
What observation has been made that describes the teleportation from one "earth side" to the other?

it is a logical deduction to say such transportation is possible. i dislike the term teleportation since refining the theory, as it is very misleading. given that aether is space, it is simply moving through space as we do the rest of the time.
a spring analogy is my favorite. the length of metal, measuring along it, remains constant. when it is stretched out, it will take several steps to cross: when it is compressed, it could be smaller than your foot.

that is the deductive evidence for the mechanism: it is logical. observational evidence simply comes from the fact we can cross.

You have no idea what the word "logic" means.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on April 25, 2015, 09:22:50 AM
What reaction goes on in an airplane turbine engine?

what the hell are you going on about now?
make your questions clearer. what is your problem with air turbine engines? given that force may be imparted, i see no problem.
What chemical reaction goes on inside airplane jet turbine engines?

to my knowledge, none, but i have had no cause to examine the inner workings of turbine engines and i may well be wrong. i yet again ask you to be clearer.
A commercial jet airplane contains fuel tanks. Those tanks contain jet fuel. The jet fuel is pumped to the jet engines and the airplane goes forward. What happens to the jet fuel in the engine?
I was hoping for an answer.

i have asked you repeatedly to clarify your question. please specify what detail it is you are saying is impossible. until you are able to actually read and acknowledge what i'm saying, there doesn't seem to be any point in providing an answer.
i have no desire to walk you through the tiniest steps of the operation of an engine. purposefully vague questions and repeated ignorance do nothing except antagonize. i have had some good conversations with you so i do not wish to lose my temper.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: sokarul on April 25, 2015, 02:06:27 PM

A commercial jet airplane contains fuel tanks. Those tanks contain jet fuel. The jet fuel is pumped to the jet engines and the airplane goes forward. What happens to the jet fuel in the engine?
This isn't simple enough?
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on April 26, 2015, 05:18:09 AM

A commercial jet airplane contains fuel tanks. Those tanks contain jet fuel. The jet fuel is pumped to the jet engines and the airplane goes forward. What happens to the jet fuel in the engine?
This isn't simple enough?

i yet again ask:
please specify what detail it is you are saying is impossible.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: sokarul on April 26, 2015, 12:54:30 PM

A commercial jet airplane contains fuel tanks. Those tanks contain jet fuel. The jet fuel is pumped to the jet engines and the airplane goes forward. What happens to the jet fuel in the engine?
This isn't simple enough?

i yet again ask:
please specify what detail it is you are saying is impossible.
I didn't say anything was impossible, I am asking how it works.  It's just like the newer thread asking hoe combustion engines work.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on April 26, 2015, 01:47:40 PM

A commercial jet airplane contains fuel tanks. Those tanks contain jet fuel. The jet fuel is pumped to the jet engines and the airplane goes forward. What happens to the jet fuel in the engine?
This isn't simple enough?

i yet again ask:
please specify what detail it is you are saying is impossible.
I didn't say anything was impossible, I am asking how it works.  It's just like the newer thread asking hoe combustion engines work.

if you have no question relating to my theory, do not waste my time. you can look up an explanation for jet engines anywhere. the newer thread actuallymade clear what they believe the problem was. how many times must i ask you to do the same?
if there is some detail that is actually relevant to dual earth theory, or any of my theories, then come back when you are willing to actually say it rather than wasting everyone's time.
what exactly is so hard with asking you to be clear?

if you just want to know how they work, use google. i'm not going to waste time going through details i do not care about. if you have a question about how they could work in my theory, where is the problem?

i am sick of repeating myself. give a clear, relevant question, or leave.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: sokarul on April 26, 2015, 04:15:31 PM

A commercial jet airplane contains fuel tanks. Those tanks contain jet fuel. The jet fuel is pumped to the jet engines and the airplane goes forward. What happens to the jet fuel in the engine?
This isn't simple enough?

i yet again ask:
please specify what detail it is you are saying is impossible.
I didn't say anything was impossible, I am asking how it works.  It's just like the newer thread asking hoe combustion engines work.

if you have no question relating to my theory, do not waste my time. you can look up an explanation for jet engines anywhere. the newer thread actuallymade clear what they believe the problem was. how many times must i ask you to do the same?
if there is some detail that is actually relevant to dual earth theory, or any of my theories, then come back when you are willing to actually say it rather than wasting everyone's time.
what exactly is so hard with asking you to be clear?

if you just want to know how they work, use google. i'm not going to waste time going through details i do not care about. if you have a question about how they could work in my theory, where is the problem?

i am sick of repeating myself. give a clear, relevant question, or leave.
Ok, I understand you don't know and can't answer simple questions about your claims.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on April 27, 2015, 02:50:31 AM

A commercial jet airplane contains fuel tanks. Those tanks contain jet fuel. The jet fuel is pumped to the jet engines and the airplane goes forward. What happens to the jet fuel in the engine?
This isn't simple enough?

i yet again ask:
please specify what detail it is you are saying is impossible.
I didn't say anything was impossible, I am asking how it works.  It's just like the newer thread asking hoe combustion engines work.

if you have no question relating to my theory, do not waste my time. you can look up an explanation for jet engines anywhere. the newer thread actuallymade clear what they believe the problem was. how many times must i ask you to do the same?
if there is some detail that is actually relevant to dual earth theory, or any of my theories, then come back when you are willing to actually say it rather than wasting everyone's time.
what exactly is so hard with asking you to be clear?

if you just want to know how they work, use google. i'm not going to waste time going through details i do not care about. if you have a question about how they could work in my theory, where is the problem?

i am sick of repeating myself. give a clear, relevant question, or leave.
Ok, I understand you don't know and can't answer simple questions about your claims.

when you have actually posed a question about my claims, i will be more than willing to answer it. do you think your evasion is not obvious?
how does your question even begin to tie to my theory? I HAVE ASKED THIS MULTIPLE TIMES
come on, you always insist your theory is so reliable, why can't you do anything except evade?
WHAT IS YOUR QUESTION
HOW DOES IT TIE TO MY THEORY
answer, or stop wasting time. what is your problem with jet engines?!

if you want to know how jet engines work, that's not related to my theory, i have to desire to walk you through a wikipedia article. you apparently know already. if, instead, you believe there is some problem with the process under my model, WHAT IS IT?!
i cannot believe i am still waiting for an answer.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: sokarul on April 27, 2015, 05:29:27 PM

when you have actually posed a question about my claims, i will be more than willing to answer it. do you think your evasion is not obvious?
I simplified the question as best I could, even a 3 year old could understand it, just not you.
Quote
how does your question even begin to tie to my theory? I HAVE ASKED THIS MULTIPLE TIMES
come on, you always insist your theory is so reliable, why can't you do anything except evade?
WHAT IS YOUR QUESTION
HOW DOES IT TIE TO MY THEORY
answer, or stop wasting time. what is your problem with jet engines?!
This was an old question relating to air. You delayed it for weeks.

Quote
if you want to know how jet engines work, that's not related to my theory, i have to desire to walk you through a wikipedia article. you apparently know already. if, instead, you believe there is some problem with the process under my model, WHAT IS IT?!
You would walk me through something you don't believe in?

Quote
i cannot believe i am still waiting for an answer.
I have been waiting for weeks for an answer.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Itchy_Arris on April 28, 2015, 03:06:21 AM
JRowe, apologise for asking you to repeat yourself, but there's just so much information to wade through! Could you please explain again where the sun is in your model?
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on April 28, 2015, 04:44:50 AM
sokarul, why do you believe jet engines will not work under dual earth theory? i suggest you read the thread, you seem to be of the opinion you've said something you have not. i am asking this explicitly. why would they not work?
if you cannot answer that question, then your question is irrelevant to dual earth theory and you're wasting my time. i am not an encyclopedia, i am only answering about dual earth theory.

itchy, the sun is contained within the earth, between each side (between the poles, causing the magnetic field).
what we see is the light of the sun carried through space/aether, by the same currents responsible for aetheric transmission allowing us to cross the equator. one of the latest posts in the model thread provides a diagram.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Why-Am-I-Here? on May 02, 2015, 12:18:38 AM
Alright JRowe. You asked, so I'll ask. How do we mine? If the earth is flat,surely we're going to end up tunnelling straight through? And what about the Mariana trench? How can that exist if the earth is flat. And if the earth is flat, and extremely thick, and has several layers, as has been agreed by geographers worldwide, then surely it would resemble a sphere? Just a thought
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Art on May 02, 2015, 05:36:30 AM
Since you invited questions...

What makes an Hypothesis a Theory,
and why is this a Theory rather than an Hypothesis?

What Falsifiable Predictions does your Theory make?

Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on May 02, 2015, 08:39:35 AM
Alright JRowe. You asked, so I'll ask. How do we mine? If the earth is flat,surely we're going to end up tunnelling straight through? And what about the Mariana trench? How can that exist if the earth is flat. And if the earth is flat, and extremely thick, and has several layers, as has been agreed by geographers worldwide, then surely it would resemble a sphere? Just a thought

if the earth is round, surely we're going to end up tunnelling all the way through?
who cares? we haven't gotten that deep, end of.
it is not extremely thick. it is far wider than it is thick. i fail to see why two thick flat surfaces would even begin to resemble a sphere, in any case.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on May 02, 2015, 08:42:16 AM
Since you invited questions...

What makes an Hypothesis a Theory,
and why is this a Theory rather than an Hypothesis?

What Falsifiable Predictions does your Theory make?

a hypothesis does not have observational evidence. dual earth theory does match observations. (it also requires fewer assumptions than round earth theory).

the falsifiable predictions include: there will be sudden jumps in vertical refraction, caused by aetheric whirlpools. space travel is impossible as rockets will need to cross an extended distance and would seem to have stopped. there are many more, but it's rather absurd to ask someone to list everything that coudl contradict their theory.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Mainframes on May 02, 2015, 10:46:59 AM
What assumptions does round earth require?

What assumptions does dual earth require?

Humour me, so we can objectively compare.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Why-Am-I-Here? on May 02, 2015, 10:47:49 AM
Alright JRowe. You asked, so I'll ask. How do we mine? If the earth is flat,surely we're going to end up tunnelling straight through? And what about the Mariana trench? How can that exist if the earth is flat. And if the earth is flat, and extremely thick, and has several layers, as has been agreed by geographers worldwide, then surely it would resemble a sphere? Just a thought

if the earth is round, surely we're going to end up tunnelling all the way through?
who cares? we haven't gotten that deep, end of.
it is not extremely thick. it is far wider than it is thick. i fail to see why two thick flat surfaces would even begin to resemble a sphere, in any case.

Then what's on the side? There's the northern hemisphere on the sop, the southern on the bottom, but what about on either side? Ether? Jeez
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Gefn on May 03, 2015, 10:09:34 AM
Are the stars duplicated between upper plane and bottom plane ? In other words, will people from the upper plane see the same stars than people on bottom plane ?

I ask this because during my last journey to Kenya (I go there a lot), I could observe the same stars in Kitale and in Nairobi, which goes 100% agaisnt your model (Aetheric transmission). In Kitale, I would be on the upper plane, in Nairobi, on the bottom one. So why the same stars ?
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on May 03, 2015, 12:31:21 PM
Alright JRowe. You asked, so I'll ask. How do we mine? If the earth is flat,surely we're going to end up tunnelling straight through? And what about the Mariana trench? How can that exist if the earth is flat. And if the earth is flat, and extremely thick, and has several layers, as has been agreed by geographers worldwide, then surely it would resemble a sphere? Just a thought

if the earth is round, surely we're going to end up tunnelling all the way through?
who cares? we haven't gotten that deep, end of.
it is not extremely thick. it is far wider than it is thick. i fail to see why two thick flat surfaces would even begin to resemble a sphere, in any case.

Then what's on the side? There's the northern hemisphere on the sop, the southern on the bottom, but what about on either side? Ether? Jeez

aether is everywhere, so of course it is present there. it is space, pelase familiarize yourself with the model.
there isn't really anything at the edges: space is thin, the distances may as well not exist.

this is complicated, i have a 'my flat earth model' thread in the ifnormation repository, there are diagrams near the end of page two. the point is, aether is especially thin at the edges (and through the center of the earth), but not throughout the rest of the earth. this is not convenient, it is governed by simple laws outlined several times.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on May 03, 2015, 12:32:44 PM
Are the stars duplicated between upper plane and bottom plane ? In other words, will people from the upper plane see the same stars than people on bottom plane ?

I ask this because during my last journey to Kenya (I go there a lot), I could observe the same stars in Kitale and in Nairobi, which goes 100% agaisnt your model (Aetheric transmission). In Kitale, I would be on the upper plane, in Nairobi, on the bottom one. So why the same stars ?

that doesn't even begin to go against my model. you can see the top from the bottom, and the bottom from the top. light is transmitted over the equator just as matter is. why wouldn't it be? in dual earth theory, aether is space. transmission is caused by thin space: a decreased distance. if anything can cross space, it is 'transmitted'.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on May 03, 2015, 12:39:13 PM
What assumptions does round earth require?

What assumptions does dual earth require?

Humour me, so we can objectively compare.

dual earth theory requires no explicit assumptions. we kow space exists, and the properties are logically deduced: those deductions are the only thing that could be called assumptions. they are a) less space means less distance (trivial) and b) it flows from high concentrations to low (a universal tendency observed in heat and pressure, among others).
they are logical, so i suppose the only assumption is that space behaves according to common, known laws.

round earth theory has gravity: which is not fully explained. there is an equation, a source, but no explanation for how that source produces the force. saying it can is an assumption.
round earth theory also has dark matter: equations don't match observations, so an assumption is thrown in.
there are many more minor aspects (auroras, which i've had a long discussion and embarassed round earthers over, the supposed reflectivity of the moon, etc), but those two major ones already make it worse than dual earth theory.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Mainframes on May 03, 2015, 01:55:13 PM
What assumptions does round earth require?

What assumptions does dual earth require?

Humour me, so we can objectively compare.

dual earth theory requires no explicit assumptions. we kow space exists, and the properties are logically deduced: those deductions are the only thing that could be called assumptions. they are a) less space means less distance (trivial) and b) it flows from high concentrations to low (a universal tendency observed in heat and pressure, among others).
they are logical, so i suppose the only assumption is that space behaves according to common, known laws.

round earth theory has gravity: which is not fully explained. there is an equation, a source, but no explanation for how that source produces the force. saying it can is an assumption.
round earth theory also has dark matter: equations don't match observations, so an assumption is thrown in.
there are many more minor aspects (auroras, which i've had a long discussion and embarassed round earthers over, the supposed reflectivity of the moon, etc), but those two major ones already make it worse than dual earth theory.

And how exactly have you measured the concentration of space?

Gravity can be measured and predicted to high levels of accuracy. It is the method of propagation that is debated. Dark matter only presents issues at large scales, and is under investigation but this does not mean gravity does not exist.

And sorry to burst your bubble but the aurora and lunar reflectivity discussions are farcical as you've pulled facts from out of your bottom as usual.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Gefn on May 03, 2015, 03:52:17 PM
Are the stars duplicated between upper plane and bottom plane ? In other words, will people from the upper plane see the same stars than people on bottom plane ?

I ask this because during my last journey to Kenya (I go there a lot), I could observe the same stars in Kitale and in Nairobi, which goes 100% agaisnt your model (Aetheric transmission). In Kitale, I would be on the upper plane, in Nairobi, on the bottom one. So why the same stars ?

that doesn't even begin to go against my model. you can see the top from the bottom, and the bottom from the top. light is transmitted over the equator just as matter is. why wouldn't it be? in dual earth theory, aether is space. transmission is caused by thin space: a decreased distance. if anything can cross space, it is 'transmitted'.

That would mean that any constellation can be seen from anywhere (e.g. north hemisphere/plane AND south hemisphere/plane) at the same time. But that's just plain wrong and doesn't match the reality.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Dog on May 04, 2015, 12:40:11 AM
What is the interior of the Earth made out of in your "dual-Earth" hypothesis? It looks pretty thin so I'm curious what's underneath our dirt, more dirt?
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on May 04, 2015, 11:40:11 AM
Are the stars duplicated between upper plane and bottom plane ? In other words, will people from the upper plane see the same stars than people on bottom plane ?

I ask this because during my last journey to Kenya (I go there a lot), I could observe the same stars in Kitale and in Nairobi, which goes 100% agaisnt your model (Aetheric transmission). In Kitale, I would be on the upper plane, in Nairobi, on the bottom one. So why the same stars ?

that doesn't even begin to go against my model. you can see the top from the bottom, and the bottom from the top. light is transmitted over the equator just as matter is. why wouldn't it be? in dual earth theory, aether is space. transmission is caused by thin space: a decreased distance. if anything can cross space, it is 'transmitted'.

That would mean that any constellation can be seen from anywhere (e.g. north hemisphere/plane AND south hemisphere/plane) at the same time. But that's just plain wrong and doesn't match the reality.

why on earth would it mean that? you can't see forever.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on May 04, 2015, 11:41:29 AM
What is the interior of the Earth made out of in your "dual-Earth" hypothesis? It looks pretty thin so I'm curious what's underneath our dirt, more dirt?

there is matter most of the way, and at the edges, but the majority of the interior is just aether (with the rotating, superheated metal sun at the center). there is dirt most of the way down, then there's just space.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Dog on May 04, 2015, 06:23:23 PM
What is the interior of the Earth made out of in your "dual-Earth" hypothesis? It looks pretty thin so I'm curious what's underneath our dirt, more dirt?

there is matter most of the way, and at the edges, but the majority of the interior is just aether (with the rotating, superheated metal sun at the center). there is dirt most of the way down, then there's just space.

Why is there a sun in the middle? Why is it rotating and made out of metal?
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on May 06, 2015, 08:05:07 AM
What is the interior of the Earth made out of in your "dual-Earth" hypothesis? It looks pretty thin so I'm curious what's underneath our dirt, more dirt?

there is matter most of the way, and at the edges, but the majority of the interior is just aether (with the rotating, superheated metal sun at the center). there is dirt most of the way down, then there's just space.

Why is there a sun in the middle? Why is it rotating and made out of metal?

information repository, 'my flat earth model', one of the most recent posts. i don't want to have to repeat myself, it's explained.

the sun is made out of metal, that's just a fact. it forms naturally, requires no nuclear fission (impossible with its size), and matches how it looks and (when heated) feels.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: abaaaabbbb63 on May 06, 2015, 08:26:03 AM
the sun is made out of metal, that's just a fact. it forms naturally, requires no nuclear fission (impossible with its size), and matches how it looks and (when heated) feels.

The sun is made out of a lot of hydrogen, some helium, and some other non-metals. It's very easy to prove using its absorption spectra.  It runs on nuclear FUSION, and has a radius of 695,800 km.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on May 07, 2015, 06:33:14 AM
the sun is made out of metal, that's just a fact. it forms naturally, requires no nuclear fission (impossible with its size), and matches how it looks and (when heated) feels.

The sun is made out of a lot of hydrogen, some helium, and some other non-metals. It's very easy to prove using its absorption spectra.  It runs on nuclear FUSION, and has a radius of 695,800 km.

this thread is about dual earth theory, not round earth. if you have no questions, do not post: all that does is waste time.
when measurements do not take into account the effect of aether, they will not give an accurate picture.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: abaaaabbbb63 on May 07, 2015, 09:16:31 AM
this thread is about dual earth theory, not round earth. if you have no questions, do not post: all that does is waste time.
when measurements do not take into account the effect of aether, they will not give an accurate picture.

I was just correcting your claim that the sun is made out of metal.

Maybe the Aether is making you believe the Earth is not round, due to its weird effects.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Motorcycle Junky on May 07, 2015, 10:59:12 AM
in an effort to keep all discussion and refinement of the theory in one place, rather than the multiple threads covering the forums, please direct any questions you have about dual earth theory to this post.

if you are unfamiliar with the basic model:
http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=63027.msg1669258#msg1669258 (http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=63027.msg1669258#msg1669258)
read from there, onwards. it outlines the model itself, and refinements are made later on. a later post also explains the nature of aether in simple detail.

if something has already been answered either in this thread, or the original, i will ignore you as i am tired of having to repeat myself if you add nothing new. further, if i have you blocked, i will read your posts for the purposes of this thread, but i will hold you to this rule far more strictly.

ask away.


So are you guys giving up on the idea of the earth accelerating in a single direction to simulate gravity? 
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Itchy_Arris on May 07, 2015, 11:19:50 AM
Whenever I see this thread title, I think it needs a little theme music.

Do-do-da-do "It's Ask Me About Dual Earth Theory. And here's your host, JRowe!"
(wild applause)
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: mikewolf13 on May 07, 2015, 11:28:09 AM
the sun is made out of metal, that's just a fact. it forms naturally, requires no nuclear fission (impossible with its size), and matches how it looks and (when heated) feels.

The sun is made out of a lot of hydrogen, some helium, and some other non-metals. It's very easy to prove using its absorption spectra.  It runs on nuclear FUSION, and has a radius of 695,800 km.

this thread is about dual earth theory, not round earth. if you have no questions, do not post: all that does is waste time.
when measurements do not take into account the effect of aether, they will not give an accurate picture.

Q: What calculation can be used to determine the effects the aether will have on the absorption spectra?

Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: The Truth Seeker on May 07, 2015, 04:05:02 PM
CONCAVE EARTH IS TRUTH AND IF YOU DO NOT BELIEVEN IT YOUR A SHILL
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Mikey T. on May 07, 2015, 05:24:50 PM
Dude, leave other people's conversations alone.  You are worse than a 2 year old on a sugar high.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: The Truth Seeker on May 07, 2015, 05:39:16 PM
Dude, leave other people's conversations alone.  You are worse than a 2 year old on a sugar high.

PEPELE NEED TRUTH YOU CAN NOT STOP IT SHILL
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Mikey T. on May 07, 2015, 06:32:36 PM
Bye little racist nobody.  Troll along home now.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: mikeman7918 on May 07, 2015, 06:35:44 PM
Dude, leave other people's conversations alone.  You are worse than a 2 year old on a sugar high.

PEPELE NEED TRUTH YOU CAN NOT STOP IT SHILL

Nobody is needing your concave Earth nonsense, so I guess we can rule that out.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Moosedrool on May 08, 2015, 07:56:30 PM
the sun is made out of metal, that's just a fact. it forms naturally, requires no nuclear fission (impossible with its size), and matches how it looks and (when heated) feels.

The sun is made out of a lot of hydrogen, some helium, and some other non-metals. It's very easy to prove using its absorption spectra.  It runs on nuclear FUSION, and has a radius of 695,800 km.

this thread is about dual earth theory, not round earth. if you have no questions, do not post: all that does is waste time.
when measurements do not take into account the effect of aether, they will not give an accurate picture.

This is in the debate section of the forum. Grow a pair and defend your nonsense so that we can laugh at your claims later.

I have a question though. Can you propose a diagram without using a mythical element from ancient times?
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: ausGeoff on May 12, 2015, 08:52:37 AM
this thread is about dual earth theory, not round earth. if you have no questions, do not post: all that does is waste time.
when measurements do not take into account the effect of aether, they will not give an accurate picture.

This is in the debate section of the forum. Grow a pair and defend your nonsense so that we can laugh at your claims later.

I have a question though. Can you propose a diagram without using a mythical element from ancient times?

JRoweSkeptic has been asked—literally—dozens of time to explain what exactly composes "aether".  So far he's been unable to describe its chemical constituents or physical structure, its source, or any observations that we can make that prove (or even suggest) its existence.  He simply repeats,  over and over again that it's the "same thing as space" and which of course is absurd.  Using that nonsensical definition [sic] would mean that two bell jars, one evacuated and one containing air, both contain "aether".

The myth?  "Aether was the protogenos (first-born elemental god) of the bright, glowing upper air of heaven—the substance of light.  Above him lay the solid dome of the sky-god, Ouranos, and below, the transparent mists of earth-bound air.

In the evening his mother Nyx drew her veil of darkness between the aither and the aer to bring night to man. In the morn his sister-wife Hemera dispersed these mists, revealing the shining blue aither of day.  Night and day were regarded as quite independent of the sun in the ancient cosmogonies.

Aether was one of the three "airs".  The middle air was Aer or Khaos, a colourless mist which enveloped the mortal world.  The lower air was Erebos, the mists of darkness, which enveloped the dark places beneath the earth and the realm of the dead.  The third was the upper air of aether, the mist of light, home of the gods of heaven.  It enveloped the mountain peaks, clouds, stars, sun and moon.  The stars themselves were said to be formed from the concentrated fires of aether
".

—I guess you could say that this pretty well sums up JRoweSkeptic's notion of aether LOL.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Why-Am-I-Here? on May 13, 2015, 02:07:11 AM
this thread is about dual earth theory, not round earth. if you have no questions, do not post: all that does is waste time.
when measurements do not take into account the effect of aether, they will not give an accurate picture.

This is in the debate section of the forum. Grow a pair and defend your nonsense so that we can laugh at your claims later.

I have a question though. Can you propose a diagram without using a mythical element from ancient times?

JRoweSkeptic has been asked—literally—dozens of time to explain what exactly composes "aether".  So far he's been unable to describe its chemical constituents or physical structure, its source, or any observations that we can make that prove (or even suggest) its existence.  He simply repeats,  over and over again that it's the "same thing as space" and which of course is absurd.  Using that nonsensical definition [sic] would mean that two bell jars, one evacuated and one containing air, both contain "aether".

The myth?  "Aether was the protogenos (first-born elemental god) of the bright, glowing upper air of heaven—the substance of light.  Above him lay the solid dome of the sky-god, Ouranos, and below, the transparent mists of earth-bound air.

In the evening his mother Nyx drew her veil of darkness between the aither and the aer to bring night to man. In the morn his sister-wife Hemera dispersed these mists, revealing the shining blue aither of day.  Night and day were regarded as quite independent of the sun in the ancient cosmogonies.

Aether was one of the three "airs".  The middle air was Aer or Khaos, a colourless mist which enveloped the mortal world.  The lower air was Erebos, the mists of darkness, which enveloped the dark places beneath the earth and the realm of the dead.  The third was the upper air of aether, the mist of light, home of the gods of heaven.  It enveloped the mountain peaks, clouds, stars, sun and moon.  The stars themselves were said to be formed from the concentrated fires of aether
".

—I guess you could say that this pretty well sums up JRoweSkeptic's notion of aether LOL.

The problem with JRowe's theorem involving Aether, is that he uses it as the answer to everything he's asked about with regards to his theory (I am exaggerating here I know but the principle remains the same.) He also uses it to combat Round Earth Theory's ideas about the universe. This is, unequivocally, bullshit. Stick Aether in your own theory and lock it up there. You can't let it go roaming about before you even know what it is, how it works, and why the fuck it interferes with everything we 'know'. People don't like to believe things without concrete evidence, let alone any whatsoever. When you are able to provide conclusive proof of Aether and why it replaces everything everyone else agrees upon, and why the fuck it has not been discovered and documented by people who are paid to do so, but instead by some random person on the internet, then maybe we'll give your theory some thought.
Having said that, I do respect that you are the only FE'r I have seen that has a theory thought through and could, in some perverse reasoning, be almost borderline logical.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on May 15, 2015, 12:48:02 PM
So are you guys giving up on the idea of the earth accelerating in a single direction to simulate gravity?
dual earth theory does not require it.

Q: What calculation can be used to determine the effects the aether will have on the absorption spectra?
i don't know, i don't have the resources to take multiple calculations from multiple perspectives and derive an equation from that. i don't see why a lack of resources is relevant. you make none of the calculations and derive none of the equations you refer to: you appeal to those who have the equipment to do so.

This is in the debate section of the forum. Grow a pair and defend your nonsense so that we can laugh at your claims later.
i am happy to debate. pay attention. this is specifically about dual earth theory however, if you have general questions with flat earth theory you have an entire forum for those answers. i don't see what about that is unclear.

I have a question though. Can you propose a diagram without using a mythical element from ancient times?
in my model, aether is space. i don't see why i have to keep repeating that fact. space is not mythical, the term aether is used only due to its familiarity with flat earth theory. as space is well defined and ot medieval, the model thread answers you.

The problem with JRowe's theorem involving Aether, is that he uses it as the answer to everything he's asked about with regards to his theory
aether is a simple, well-defined, logical concept. again, it is space. it's pathetic how geoff keeps parrotting teh same, refuted bs time and again. the fact one simple, well-defined inclusion can answer multiple objections without needing new traits added each time is evidence for dual earth theory, not against.
or should i start complaining about how round earthers constantly appeal to gravity to explain tides, orbits, the formation of the earth, why we stay on its surface...
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Why-Am-I-Here? on May 15, 2015, 01:55:34 PM
The magical thing about gravity, is that it is effectively rooted (pun intended) in it's stance, and doesn't seem to have an ever-changing view. Ether is manipulated depending on your needs and what you haven't yet answered. I must refer to your logic of "space travel is disproven by evolution as animals can't hold their breaths long enough", "Air doesn't exist breathing is just a mechanism for warmth", and "Ether is space" excuse the paraphrasing. These three concepts seem to conflict. Is it just me? How can animals not have evolved to be in space if ether is space? Why is space travel impossible if ether is everywhere, so it would just be "ether travel"??? Gravity has yet to be disputed properly. ether is still in the "engine phase" if you will.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on May 16, 2015, 05:51:22 AM
The magical thing about gravity, is that it is effectively rooted (pun intended) in it's stance, and doesn't seem to have an ever-changing view. Ether is manipulated depending on your needs and what you haven't yet answered. I must refer to your logic of "space travel is disproven by evolution as animals can't hold their breaths long enough", "Air doesn't exist breathing is just a mechanism for warmth", and "Ether is space" excuse the paraphrasing. These three concepts seem to conflict. Is it just me? How can animals not have evolved to be in space if ether is space? Why is space travel impossible if ether is everywhere, so it would just be "ether travel"??? Gravity has yet to be disputed properly. ether is still in the "engine phase" if you will.

you clearly don't know anything about gravity. the fantays behind it keeps changing. currently it's something to do with mass bending space, or something absurd like that.

i have never said "space travel is disproven by evolution as animals can't hold their breaths long enough", aether is the fabric of space, outer space exists in space, but it is not the same thing. even round earthers use the term 'space' to refer to the dimension in which we live.
aether is the fabric of space. aether travel does exist: we do it all the time. it's what moving is. magically getting to outer space is an absurdity.
pay attention to context and actually think. seriously.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: abaaaabbbb63 on May 16, 2015, 06:15:04 AM
The magical thing about gravity, is that it is effectively rooted (pun intended) in it's stance, and doesn't seem to have an ever-changing view. Ether is manipulated depending on your needs and what you haven't yet answered. I must refer to your logic of "space travel is disproven by evolution as animals can't hold their breaths long enough", "Air doesn't exist breathing is just a mechanism for warmth", and "Ether is space" excuse the paraphrasing. These three concepts seem to conflict. Is it just me? How can animals not have evolved to be in space if ether is space? Why is space travel impossible if ether is everywhere, so it would just be "ether travel"??? Gravity has yet to be disputed properly. ether is still in the "engine phase" if you will.

you clearly don't know anything about gravity. the fantays behind it keeps changing. currently it's something to do with mass bending space, or something absurd like that.

i have never said "space travel is disproven by evolution as animals can't hold their breaths long enough", aether is the fabric of space, outer space exists in space, but it is not the same thing. even round earthers use the term 'space' to refer to the dimension in which we live.
aether is the fabric of space. aether travel does exist: we do it all the time. it's what moving is. magically getting to outer space is an absurdity.
pay attention to context and actually think. seriously.

So you're saying that space = outer space + aether?
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on May 16, 2015, 06:17:02 AM
The magical thing about gravity, is that it is effectively rooted (pun intended) in it's stance, and doesn't seem to have an ever-changing view. Ether is manipulated depending on your needs and what you haven't yet answered. I must refer to your logic of "space travel is disproven by evolution as animals can't hold their breaths long enough", "Air doesn't exist breathing is just a mechanism for warmth", and "Ether is space" excuse the paraphrasing. These three concepts seem to conflict. Is it just me? How can animals not have evolved to be in space if ether is space? Why is space travel impossible if ether is everywhere, so it would just be "ether travel"??? Gravity has yet to be disputed properly. ether is still in the "engine phase" if you will.

you clearly don't know anything about gravity. the fantays behind it keeps changing. currently it's something to do with mass bending space, or something absurd like that.

i have never said "space travel is disproven by evolution as animals can't hold their breaths long enough", aether is the fabric of space, outer space exists in space, but it is not the same thing. even round earthers use the term 'space' to refer to the dimension in which we live.
aether is the fabric of space. aether travel does exist: we do it all the time. it's what moving is. magically getting to outer space is an absurdity.
pay attention to context and actually think. seriously.

So you're saying that space = outer space + aether?

what is wrong with you? aether: the fabric of space. EVERYWHERE. EVERYTHING EXISTS IN A POINT IN SPACE. THIS IS VERY BASIC KNOWLEDGE.
outer space is a location. it clearly occupies spatial coordinates as it exists, so what? the moon is a location in space. the earth is a location in space. are you being intentionally dense?
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Why-Am-I-Here? on May 16, 2015, 06:24:24 AM
How exactly is "outer space travel" impossible??? What is wrong with it? How does ether have so many fucking properties, and how the fuck has it never been discovered. What is the difference in ether near to, and far from, earth?
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on May 16, 2015, 06:26:48 AM
How exactly is "outer space travel" impossible??? What is wrong with it? How does ether have so many fucking properties, and how the fuck has it never been discovered. What is the difference in ether near to, and far from, earth?

aether has a total of two, very basic properties. are you paying any attention whatsoever?
aether has been discovered. IT IS SPACE. READ. WHAT IS THE POINT IN ME EXPLAINING ANYTHING TO YOU IF YOU IGNORE EVERY WORD I SAY?
aether gets denser the further you get from earth. there's no change in properties, just in concentration.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: abaaaabbbb63 on May 16, 2015, 06:29:32 AM
what is wrong with you? aether: the fabric of space. EVERYWHERE. EVERYTHING EXISTS IN A POINT IN SPACE. THIS IS VERY BASIC KNOWLEDGE.
outer space is a location. it clearly occupies spatial coordinates as it exists, so what? the moon is a location in space. the earth is a location in space. are you being intentionally dense?

Nothing, it's confusing when people give names to stuff that already has a name. Use "SPACE" instead of aether, as it's more scientific.

But still, space would have to have different properties at the equator for your idea to work, which is does not, because there are no different conditions at the equator than anywhere on earth, space-wise.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on May 16, 2015, 06:35:18 AM
what is wrong with you? aether: the fabric of space. EVERYWHERE. EVERYTHING EXISTS IN A POINT IN SPACE. THIS IS VERY BASIC KNOWLEDGE.
outer space is a location. it clearly occupies spatial coordinates as it exists, so what? the moon is a location in space. the earth is a location in space. are you being intentionally dense?

Nothing, it's confusing when people give names to stuff that already has a name. Use "SPACE" instead of aether, as it's more scientific.

But still, space would have to have different properties at the equator for your idea to work, which is does not, because there are no different conditions at the equator than anywhere on earth, space-wise.

it's also a clearly misleading use as you get people like him insisting i must be talking about outer space after repeated correction. aether is a known concept in flat earth theory. for people unlike you who aren't being intentionally stupid and obsessing with straw men, my meaning is clear.

you have been paying absolutely no attention whatsoever. why do you act like you're some kind of expert? this has been explained multiple times. space is thin at the equator, which makes perfect sense in the dual earth model as it is where the low concentration of aether (the thin space) within the earth reaches the outside. it takes less time to cross less space.
do you have ay reason that isn't closed-minded assertion for why this cannot be the case? i am getting very sick of how you consistently assert that i'm wrong all over the forum and offer no evidence for any of your claims whatsoever.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: abaaaabbbb63 on May 16, 2015, 06:39:58 AM
you have been paying absolutely no attention whatsoever. why do you act like you're some kind of expert? this has been explained multiple times. space is thin at the equator, which makes perfect sense in the dual earth model as it is where the low concentration of aether (the thin space) within the earth reaches the outside. it takes less time to cross less space.
do you have ay reason that isn't closed-minded assertion for why this cannot be the case? i am getting very sick of how you consistently assert that i'm wrong all over the forum and offer no evidence for any of your claims whatsoever.

Well, you made an assertion, so you must come with proof for it.

Is there any non-closed-minded reason not to believe that you have silent, invisible and intangible unicorns flying through your house right now?
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on May 16, 2015, 06:41:18 AM
you have been paying absolutely no attention whatsoever. why do you act like you're some kind of expert? this has been explained multiple times. space is thin at the equator, which makes perfect sense in the dual earth model as it is where the low concentration of aether (the thin space) within the earth reaches the outside. it takes less time to cross less space.
do you have ay reason that isn't closed-minded assertion for why this cannot be the case? i am getting very sick of how you consistently assert that i'm wrong all over the forum and offer no evidence for any of your claims whatsoever.

Well, you made an assertion, so you must come with proof for it.

Is there any non-closed-minded reason not to believe that you have silent, invisible and intangible unicorns flying through your house right now?

if you have no understanding of occam's razor or dual earth theory, stop wasting everybody's time.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: abaaaabbbb63 on May 16, 2015, 06:46:03 AM
if you have no understanding of occam's razor or dual earth theory, stop wasting everybody's time.

Well, if you're the only person in the world that has understanding of your ideas, then your idea isn't really useful, is it?

It seems that you don't have any proof for your claims. So, what is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on May 16, 2015, 06:48:20 AM
if you have no understanding of occam's razor or dual earth theory, stop wasting everybody's time.

Well, if you're the only person in the world that has understanding of your ideas, then your idea isn't really useful, is it?

It seems that you don't have any proof for your claims. So, what is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

you don't even understand clouds, why should i expect you to understand anything?
evidence has been given repeatedly (see: occam's razor). matching observations is the first step, the second is to show it requires fewer assumptions than the alternative. this is very basic. when you understand clouds and basic logic, come back then.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: abaaaabbbb63 on May 16, 2015, 06:57:52 AM
if you have no understanding of occam's razor or dual earth theory, stop wasting everybody's time.

Well, if you're the only person in the world that has understanding of your ideas, then your idea isn't really useful, is it?

It seems that you don't have any proof for your claims. So, what is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

you don't even understand clouds, why should i expect you to understand anything?
evidence has been given repeatedly (see: occam's razor). matching observations is the first step, the second is to show it requires fewer assumptions than the alternative. this is very basic. when you understand clouds and basic logic, come back then.

I do understand clouds, but you don't seem to understand the concept of density. Not my fault, mate. Probably not yours either. Did your parents send you to school?
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on May 16, 2015, 07:01:29 AM
if you have no understanding of occam's razor or dual earth theory, stop wasting everybody's time.

Well, if you're the only person in the world that has understanding of your ideas, then your idea isn't really useful, is it?

It seems that you don't have any proof for your claims. So, what is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

you don't even understand clouds, why should i expect you to understand anything?
evidence has been given repeatedly (see: occam's razor). matching observations is the first step, the second is to show it requires fewer assumptions than the alternative. this is very basic. when you understand clouds and basic logic, come back then.

I do understand clouds, but you don't seem to understand the concept of density. Not my fault, mate. Probably not yours either. Did your parents send you to school?
why should i keep wasting time on you?
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: abaaaabbbb63 on May 16, 2015, 07:03:39 AM
why should i keep wasting time on you?

You can quit any time you want!

Go study what density means.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Why-Am-I-Here? on May 17, 2015, 12:40:04 AM
JRowe, I am not using straw men. I am simply confused why you would choose to branch out into your own crackpot theory involving ether, rather than the almost worldwide accepted hypothesis, which has been repeatedly proven. Why has nobody discovered ether? Why has nobody explained that it works the same way you believe it does. How the fuck did you discover it in the first place? I applaud you for having an incredible imagination, but you might want to speak to a mental health specialist before you start seeing fairies in your garden.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: th3rm0m3t3r0 on May 17, 2015, 12:48:13 AM
if you have no understanding of occam's razor or dual earth theory, stop wasting everybody's time.

Well, if you're the only person in the world that has understanding of your ideas, then your idea isn't really useful, is it?

It seems that you don't have any proof for your claims. So, what is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

you don't even understand clouds, why should i expect you to understand anything?
evidence has been given repeatedly (see: occam's razor). matching observations is the first step, the second is to show it requires fewer assumptions than the alternative. this is very basic. when you understand clouds and basic logic, come back then.
I'm very sorry I'm feeling the need to exert my presence here.
I think it is you who does not understand clouds.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Why-Am-I-Here? on May 19, 2015, 04:52:02 AM
JRowe, how the hell does your 'sun' fit in the centre of the earth? How thin is it? Is the sun flat too?? What is this?
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Bilbo Swaggins on May 20, 2015, 10:58:14 AM
JRowe, how the hell does your 'sun' fit in the centre of the earth? How thin is it? Is the sun flat too?? What is this?
Well, it can easily be explained through Aether and fairies.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on May 22, 2015, 06:55:38 AM
every single one of you, LEARN TO READ
this is all pathetically simple. whyamihere (yes, why are you here if you're illiterate?) has ignored the model thread completely, and clearly has not bothered to understand the slightest thing about the fact aether is space. th3rm apparently still things clouds are a gas.
LEARN. TO. READ. there is no point in answering you're questions if you're too incompetent to read the answers.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Realdeal on May 22, 2015, 06:51:47 PM
I read the FAQ about dual Earth and it intrigued me.  Are you the only one who has proposed this model?  I do not share some of your other views, but this seems to answer a lot of questions that the spoon fed people seem to ask.  I would like to know more about how the Sun works in your model.  Is it a ball of nuclear reactions, or something else.  I appologize if I missed any explaination in your other thread as some keep trying to discredit you there.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Why-Am-I-Here? on May 22, 2015, 11:59:38 PM
JRowe's hypothesis seems to work for a brief period, then you realise the lack of air, the existence of ether, the sudden appearance of faries that are casting this magical illusion we call clouds. In answer to your question, as JRowe tends to take a while to respond to these, his sun is somehow in the centre of said flat earth, and... I'll leave the rest to your imagination.

Probably safest to join the Truth Seeker in his concave earth rants honestly.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on May 23, 2015, 08:16:40 AM
I would like to know more about how the Sun works in your model.  Is it a ball of nuclear reactions, or something else.
the sun, like the moon, is superheated metal. it was formed when aether flowed and drew matter together, condensing the matter until it became one entity: a metal orb. this orb is constantly heated by friction, which causes it to illuminate, ad so it imparts light and heat.
the location and image of the sun is explained in a later post. the physical entity is in the center of the earth, but the image is carried visually by the same currents that cause aetheric transmission at the equator.

JRowe's hypothesis seems to work for a brief period, then you realise the lack of air, the existence of ether, the sudden appearance of faries that are casting this magical illusion we call clouds
air and fairies have no connection to dual earth theory, and aether is space (a fact you repeatedly ignore because you'd rather act like a moron than pay ay attention whatsoever or learn anything) and so clearly exists.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Why-Am-I-Here? on May 23, 2015, 10:39:17 AM
How exactly is "outer space travel" impossible??? What is wrong with it? How does ether have so many fucking properties, and how the fuck has it never been discovered. What is the difference in ether near to, and far from, earth?

aether has a total of two, very basic properties. are you paying any attention whatsoever?
aether has been discovered. IT IS SPACE. READ. WHAT IS THE POINT IN ME EXPLAINING ANYTHING TO YOU IF YOU IGNORE EVERY WORD I SAY?
aether gets denser the further you get from earth. there's no change in properties, just in concentration.
If ether is space, why not just call it space? How do you know it gets denser as you move away from earth? Where's the evidence?
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on May 23, 2015, 10:56:40 AM
How exactly is "outer space travel" impossible??? What is wrong with it? How does ether have so many fucking properties, and how the fuck has it never been discovered. What is the difference in ether near to, and far from, earth?

aether has a total of two, very basic properties. are you paying any attention whatsoever?
aether has been discovered. IT IS SPACE. READ. WHAT IS THE POINT IN ME EXPLAINING ANYTHING TO YOU IF YOU IGNORE EVERY WORD I SAY?
aether gets denser the further you get from earth. there's no change in properties, just in concentration.
If ether is space, why not just call it space? How do you know it gets denser as you move away from earth? Where's the evidence?

aether is a known flat earth term, and the role is similar. the fact it is the fabric of space is true, but it confuses people when i replace the word with space. it is clear what i mean if you would only think, i see no reason to alter teminology.
observational evience: it matches observations (and makes logical sense).
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Why-Am-I-Here? on May 23, 2015, 11:02:01 AM
How exactly is "outer space travel" impossible??? What is wrong with it? How does ether have so many fucking properties, and how the fuck has it never been discovered. What is the difference in ether near to, and far from, earth?

aether has a total of two, very basic properties. are you paying any attention whatsoever?
aether has been discovered. IT IS SPACE. READ. WHAT IS THE POINT IN ME EXPLAINING ANYTHING TO YOU IF YOU IGNORE EVERY WORD I SAY?
aether gets denser the further you get from earth. there's no change in properties, just in concentration.
If ether is space, why not just call it space? How do you know it gets denser as you move away from earth? Where's the evidence?

aether is a known flat earth term, and the role is similar. the fact it is the fabric of space is true, but it confuses people when i replace the word with space. it is clear what i mean if you would only think, i see no reason to alter teminology.
observational evience: it matches observations (and makes logical sense).
How come observational evidence is allowed for your hypothesis only? observational evidence for a round earth is dismissed as bollocks very quickly. You use circular reasoning as "logical sense". We can't go to space because the ether is too dense, therefore we can't go to space. Moon landing conspiracy debunked anyone? You've still yet to prove that ether behaves as you suggest it to, and why your explanation is more correct than other people's differing ideas.
Are you familiar with one of the many definitions of insanity? -"everyone is crazy except me. i am the only sane person in the world."
Just, throwing that out there, considering the dual earth 'theory' following.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on May 23, 2015, 11:06:29 AM
How exactly is "outer space travel" impossible??? What is wrong with it? How does ether have so many fucking properties, and how the fuck has it never been discovered. What is the difference in ether near to, and far from, earth?

aether has a total of two, very basic properties. are you paying any attention whatsoever?
aether has been discovered. IT IS SPACE. READ. WHAT IS THE POINT IN ME EXPLAINING ANYTHING TO YOU IF YOU IGNORE EVERY WORD I SAY?
aether gets denser the further you get from earth. there's no change in properties, just in concentration.
If ether is space, why not just call it space? How do you know it gets denser as you move away from earth? Where's the evidence?

aether is a known flat earth term, and the role is similar. the fact it is the fabric of space is true, but it confuses people when i replace the word with space. it is clear what i mean if you would only think, i see no reason to alter teminology.
observational evience: it matches observations (and makes logical sense).
How come observational evidence is allowed for your hypothesis only? observational evidence for a round earth is dismissed as bollocks very quickly. You use circular reasoning as "logical sense". We can't go to space because the ether is too dense, therefore we can't go to space. Moon landing conspiracy debunked anyone? You've still yet to prove that ether behaves as you suggest it to, and why your explanation is more correct than other people's differing ideas.
Are you familiar with one of the many definitions of insanity? -"everyone is crazy except me. i am the only sane person in the world."
Just, throwing that out there, considering the dual earth 'theory' following.

science relies on two principles. one, observational evidence (finding an explanation that matches observations). two, occam's razor: relying on the explanation with fewest assumptions.
dual earth theory requires far simpler rules than round earth theory, and works just as well.
"We can't go to space because the ether is too dense, therefore we can't go to space." why are you repeating yourself? we can't go to space because aether becomes too thick, end of. how do you think logic works?
i have provided my evidence for the traits of aether. if you are going to reject that evidence, you need to actually say why, rather than asserting. that's how it works, you know. you can't just ignore reasoning when presented to you.

dual earth theory works, that is just a fact. every observation is explained. the only objections people have are with my personal beliefs, which are independent of dual earth theory. the only question remaining is whether it is simpler: until you can actually address the points you so resolutely ignore, it will remain so.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Why-Am-I-Here? on May 23, 2015, 12:46:26 PM
How exactly is "outer space travel" impossible??? What is wrong with it? How does ether have so many fucking properties, and how the fuck has it never been discovered. What is the difference in ether near to, and far from, earth?

aether has a total of two, very basic properties. are you paying any attention whatsoever?
aether has been discovered. IT IS SPACE. READ. WHAT IS THE POINT IN ME EXPLAINING ANYTHING TO YOU IF YOU IGNORE EVERY WORD I SAY?
aether gets denser the further you get from earth. there's no change in properties, just in concentration.
If ether is space, why not just call it space? How do you know it gets denser as you move away from earth? Where's the evidence?

aether is a known flat earth term, and the role is similar. the fact it is the fabric of space is true, but it confuses people when i replace the word with space. it is clear what i mean if you would only think, i see no reason to alter teminology.
observational evience: it matches observations (and makes logical sense).
How come observational evidence is allowed for your hypothesis only? observational evidence for a round earth is dismissed as bollocks very quickly. You use circular reasoning as "logical sense". We can't go to space because the ether is too dense, therefore we can't go to space. Moon landing conspiracy debunked anyone? You've still yet to prove that ether behaves as you suggest it to, and why your explanation is more correct than other people's differing ideas.
Are you familiar with one of the many definitions of insanity? -"everyone is crazy except me. i am the only sane person in the world."
Just, throwing that out there, considering the dual earth 'theory' following.

science relies on two principles. one, observational evidence (finding an explanation that matches observations). two, occam's razor: relying on the explanation with fewest assumptions.
dual earth theory requires far simpler rules than round earth theory, and works just as well.
"We can't go to space because the ether is too dense, therefore we can't go to space." why are you repeating yourself? we can't go to space because aether becomes too thick, end of. how do you think logic works?
i have provided my evidence for the traits of aether. if you are going to reject that evidence, you need to actually say why, rather than asserting. that's how it works, you know. you can't just ignore reasoning when presented to you.

dual earth theory works, that is just a fact. every observation is explained. the only objections people have are with my personal beliefs, which are independent of dual earth theory. the only question remaining is whether it is simpler: until you can actually address the points you so resolutely ignore, it will remain so.
I was, in case you missed it, surrounding my 'lack of logic' with quotation marks, signifying I was taking this as an example of your arguments. Not repeating myself. Or rather, repeating myself in the same fashion as your circular reasoning. How do you know ether becomes too thick? Because we can't go to space? Do you see the problem here? Every theory relies on Occam's razor to some degree, but science has been thoroughly experimented, calculated, etc. Yours is based almost entirely off 'personal' observation.
How do you know dual earth theory works? You're still making additions and changing it. Nobody re: nobody agrees with you on thus hypothesis. Your personal beliefs do not help your case, which even you must concede. I am addressing these points, but you are the one deflecting them repeatedly. Remember essays in school? ATQ!

Remember the insanity definition I provided, just consider it briefly. Nothing is just a fact, sorry.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on May 24, 2015, 06:48:19 AM
How exactly is "outer space travel" impossible??? What is wrong with it? How does ether have so many fucking properties, and how the fuck has it never been discovered. What is the difference in ether near to, and far from, earth?

aether has a total of two, very basic properties. are you paying any attention whatsoever?
aether has been discovered. IT IS SPACE. READ. WHAT IS THE POINT IN ME EXPLAINING ANYTHING TO YOU IF YOU IGNORE EVERY WORD I SAY?
aether gets denser the further you get from earth. there's no change in properties, just in concentration.
If ether is space, why not just call it space? How do you know it gets denser as you move away from earth? Where's the evidence?

aether is a known flat earth term, and the role is similar. the fact it is the fabric of space is true, but it confuses people when i replace the word with space. it is clear what i mean if you would only think, i see no reason to alter teminology.
observational evience: it matches observations (and makes logical sense).
How come observational evidence is allowed for your hypothesis only? observational evidence for a round earth is dismissed as bollocks very quickly. You use circular reasoning as "logical sense". We can't go to space because the ether is too dense, therefore we can't go to space. Moon landing conspiracy debunked anyone? You've still yet to prove that ether behaves as you suggest it to, and why your explanation is more correct than other people's differing ideas.
Are you familiar with one of the many definitions of insanity? -"everyone is crazy except me. i am the only sane person in the world."
Just, throwing that out there, considering the dual earth 'theory' following.

science relies on two principles. one, observational evidence (finding an explanation that matches observations). two, occam's razor: relying on the explanation with fewest assumptions.
dual earth theory requires far simpler rules than round earth theory, and works just as well.
"We can't go to space because the ether is too dense, therefore we can't go to space." why are you repeating yourself? we can't go to space because aether becomes too thick, end of. how do you think logic works?
i have provided my evidence for the traits of aether. if you are going to reject that evidence, you need to actually say why, rather than asserting. that's how it works, you know. you can't just ignore reasoning when presented to you.

dual earth theory works, that is just a fact. every observation is explained. the only objections people have are with my personal beliefs, which are independent of dual earth theory. the only question remaining is whether it is simpler: until you can actually address the points you so resolutely ignore, it will remain so.
I was, in case you missed it, surrounding my 'lack of logic' with quotation marks, signifying I was taking this as an example of your arguments. Not repeating myself. Or rather, repeating myself in the same fashion as your circular reasoning. How do you know ether becomes too thick? Because we can't go to space? Do you see the problem here? Every theory relies on Occam's razor to some degree, but science has been thoroughly experimented, calculated, etc. Yours is based almost entirely off 'personal' observation.
How do you know dual earth theory works? You're still making additions and changing it. Nobody re: nobody agrees with you on thus hypothesis. Your personal beliefs do not help your case, which even you must concede. I am addressing these points, but you are the one deflecting them repeatedly. Remember essays in school? ATQ!

Remember the insanity definition I provided, just consider it briefly. Nothing is just a fact, sorry.

i know aether becomes thick due to altitude as it is a logical deduction: familiarize yourself with the theory, seriously. why do you persist in acting like an expert about something you clearly know nothing about?
if you don't want to read the thread, that's fine, but don't act like you're more of an authority on dual earth theory than me.

the earth formed primarily due to how the aether flowed from a higher concentration to a lower: this implies the earth is a lower concentation, and so higher up is a higher concentration. simple.

dual earth theory works to explain the world. there may be one or two minor details that i am not aware of or did not consider, but at this stage, once the dual earth model was developed, only minor refinements are required. (for example, the two-sun model is replaced by a two-images model: very similar, but without a crucial flaw, and which explains yet more observations, with no new traits required. it fits surprisingly well with the model).

i am still waiting for you to acknowledge the vast majority of what i've said to you. the fact is, you just ignore every answer given to you because you are not interested in learning. my mental state is none of your concern. you are interested in insulting others and boosting your own ego. you are not concerned with educating yourself about dual earth theory and so being able to form a genuine opinion or being able to mount an intelligent or considered attack.
if you are not going to educate yourself, do not waste everybody's time.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: mikeman7918 on May 24, 2015, 11:06:48 AM
Does duel Earth theory have an explenation for sunsets?
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: FETlolcakes on May 24, 2015, 12:07:01 PM
i know aether becomes thick due to altitude as it is a logical deduction

Oh great, this must mean you performed experiments to support your hypothesis. Can we please see what experiment(s) you performed and the results of said experiment(s)?

After all, there is only so much one can deduce about the world around them by looking out of a window and making 'logical deductions'.

familiarize yourself with the theory, seriously. why do you persist in acting like an expert about something you clearly know nothing about?

I've read this thread in its entirety and all I've seen from you are assertions, nothing more.

Could you please, without waving your hands about and dishing out ad hominems, show us your evidence for all of your assertions. Saying something is a 'logical deduction' or 'common sense' is not evidence and doesn't substantiate your position by any means, so please stop acting like it does.

the earth formed primarily due to how the aether flowed from a higher concentration to a lower: this implies the earth is a lower concentation, and so higher up is a higher concentration. simple.

You've repeated ad infinitum that your version of aether is what modern science calls 'space', yet you attribute properties to aether that are not attributed to space. Space itself cannot affect matter nor does it 'flow', yet your aether obviously does, but you've yet to define the properties of aether which gives it the ability to affect mass.

Enough hand-waving; please show us the data/experiments you've performed to determine any of this.

dual earth theory works to explain the world. there may be one or two minor details that i am not aware of or did not consider, but at this stage, once the dual earth model was developed, only minor refinements are required. (for example, the two-sun model is replaced by a two-images model: very similar, but without a crucial flaw, and which explains yet more observations, with no new traits required. it fits surprisingly well with the model).

Genuine question JRowe: I wonder why, given how seemingly self-assured you are about your assertions, you're on this forum of all places on the net? Sure, I know it's entertaining and all what with the trolls (that include mods, too) and how people like yourself can casually insult everyone without consequence, but why not go and post your theory (sic) on science/physics forums? I know many phD's and other highly educated people frequent such sites, so surely they could help you make refinements in your model (sic) that I'm sure you'd appreciate.

I'm sure, too, that others would be very excited to hear about a completely new theory (sic) that rewrites all known laws of physics, chemistry and biology and be in on the ground level in helping to make further refinements on the model (sic).

Quote
i am still waiting for you to acknowledge the vast majority of what i've said to you.
Quote
the fact is, you just ignore every answer given to you because you are not interested in learning
Quote
you are interested in insulting others and boosting your own ego
Quote
you are not concerned with educating yourself

Um, no offense or anything JRowe, but are you talking to yourself here?
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Why-Am-I-Here? on May 24, 2015, 12:30:10 PM
As "FETlolcakes" said, where is your evidence. How does ether behave so differently to space, yet still exist as 'space'? Your logical deductions do not, under any circumstances, replace evidence. You cannot make assertions and declarations of fact, unless you are prepared to back it up with evidence other people can see. How do you know how the earth was formed? What 'deductions' led you to this? what calculations? WHERE IS THE EVIDENCE? Not beating around the bush, provide evidence dammit.

Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on May 24, 2015, 01:49:59 PM
Does duel Earth theory have an explenation for sunsets?
yes. read the thread. you've been pointed to it multiple times, are you physically capable of reading?
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on May 24, 2015, 01:51:54 PM
As "FETlolcakes" said, where is your evidence. How does ether behave so differently to space, yet still exist as 'space'? Your logical deductions do not, under any circumstances, replace evidence. You cannot make assertions and declarations of fact, unless you are prepared to back it up with evidence other people can see. How do you know how the earth was formed? What 'deductions' led you to this? what calculations? WHERE IS THE EVIDENCE? Not beating around the bush, provide evidence dammit.
you have yet to show it does behave differently to space. i have made only logical deductions. if you are not going to address that then leave as you're just wasting time. there is no point in trying toe duacte someone who just ignores everythign tehy're told. LEARN TO READ YOU ILLITERATE MORON
I HAVE REPEATEDLY GIVEN MY CHAIN OF REASONING

DEDUCTION IS THE ONLY WAY WE CAN KNOW ANYTHING. HOW EXACTLY DO YOU THINK CONCLUSIONS ARE DRAWN FROM EXPERIMENTS?! WE OBSERVE THE WAY THINGS ARE AND THEND EDUCE WHAT MUST BE THE CAUSE/. THIS IS THE FUNDAMENTAL CORE OF SCIENCE> ARE YOU SERIOUSLY STRUGGLING WITH THAT?
WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU!?
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Why-Am-I-Here? on May 24, 2015, 01:57:12 PM
Calm it mate, jeez. deductions based off experiments, what experiments buddy? Where are these experiments? Eh? Still waiting for these experiments.
With your regards to space/ether, you are, once again, spouting bullshit. Space doesn't flow, at least not noticeably. We have been to space, through rocket fuel, which has been used over and over again to reach the moon, and the other planets in the solar system. Your hypothesis is based purely off circular reasoning (which I will happily recite again if you missed it the first time), and circular reasoning, by its very definition, cannot work. Sorry man, theory falsified. Give it up. Get a padded room. Take a nap.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on May 24, 2015, 02:01:13 PM
Calm it mate, jeez. deductions based off experiments, what experiments buddy? Where are these experiments? Eh? Still waiting for these experiments.
With your regards to space/ether, you are, once again, spouting bullshit. Space doesn't flow, at least not noticeably. We have been to space, through rocket fuel, which has been used over and over again to reach the moon, and the other planets in the solar system. Your hypothesis is based purely off circular reasoning (which I will happily recite again if you missed it the first time), and circular reasoning, by its very definition, cannot work. Sorry man, theory falsified. Give it up. Get a padded room. Take a nap.

OBSERVATION. OF. THE. WORLD


WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU? ARE YOU CAPABLE OF ANY THOUGHT WHATSOEVER?


i have given logical reasoning, and youa ssert without even trying to respond to what i've said. why are you here if you are not interested in discussion and only want to blindly reject?!

YOU HAVE ALREADY BEEN TOLD WHY THE REASONING WAS NOT CIRCULAR DIRECTLY AND YOU ARE JUST IGNORING IT
CAN YOU DO ANYTHING EXEOPT LIE?

I WILL NOT CALM IT WHEN MY THEORIES ARE BEING INSULTED BY A HYPOCRITICAL, ILLITERATE LIAR.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Why-Am-I-Here? on May 24, 2015, 02:05:49 PM
shh. shh. its okay. Take your pills, calm down. You've lost your shit enough for one night. All I'm asking for is proof of your experiments, and for you to stop insulting me. You have still failed to do either. Take a moment, take some deep breaths, and think before you go mental again. You might break the padding in your room, and then you won't make it much longer. Think, understand, reason. Show these experiments, show your proof, rather than evading it, and stop the insults.

Thank you.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on May 24, 2015, 02:09:20 PM
shh. shh. its okay. Take your pills, calm down. You've lost your shit enough for one night. All I'm asking for is proof of your experiments, and for you to stop insulting me. You have still failed to do either. Take a moment, take some deep breaths, and think before you go mental again. You might break the padding in your room, and then you won't make it much longer. Think, understand, reason. Show these experiments, show your proof, rather than evading it, and stop the insults.

Thank you.

if you are just going to ignore every word i say, what is the point?
i will insult you as apparently those are the only words you pay any attention to. what exactly is your problem with observation? astronomers perform no experiments, they observer, and deduce from that. simple. if you do not understand science, that is your problem. experiments are a form of science. they are not the only form of science.
please, try to pay attention you illiterate fool. it is clearly a struggle for you tot hink as you would rather default to obvious lies in order to hide the fact YOU. ARE. WRONG. you repeat the same argument without eve acknowledging the fact it has been rebutted, and you then proceed to ignore everything about how science and observation works for no reason except the fact you are not interested in learning or talking, you are only interested in insulting.

look at yoir name. why are you here? no one knows. YOU ARE A WASTE OF TIME. YOU DO NOT READ A WORD.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Why-Am-I-Here? on May 24, 2015, 02:13:05 PM
"tot hink"? hmm, maybe a tad more care required to stop you looking like a fool when typing, just a brief scan before your emotions overcome you? I assure you I read every word you say, but your circular reasoning can be difficult to follow. (once again, just say the word and I'll show you the evidence for it again.) If you refuse point blank to show these experiments, then show these logical deductions. Show some form of proof we can relate to, rather than rely on the word of a ranting lunatic spouting insults as soon as his hypothesis is threatened.
Speaking of which, please stop.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: The Ellimist on May 24, 2015, 04:01:02 PM
What universal principle says everything flows from high concentrations to low?
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Why-Am-I-Here? on May 24, 2015, 11:38:18 PM
In fairness, processes such as diffusion work only from high to low,and also pressure, which is why space is a vacuum and we are capable of inhaling, so in this instance, he has something of a point. There are, however, processes that defy this principle, such as active transport, which requires adenezinetriphosphate to be carried out (energy for JRowe's sake).
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on May 25, 2015, 06:50:46 AM
"tot hink"? hmm, maybe a tad more care required to stop you looking like a fool when typing, just a brief scan before your emotions overcome you? I assure you I read every word you say, but your circular reasoning can be difficult to follow. (once again, just say the word and I'll show you the evidence for it again.) If you refuse point blank to show these experiments, then show these logical deductions. Show some form of proof we can relate to, rather than rely on the word of a ranting lunatic spouting insults as soon as his hypothesis is threatened.
Speaking of which, please stop.

I HAVE REPEATEDLY YOU ILLITERATE MORON. YOU HAVE BEEN SHOWN WHY NONE OF MY ARGUMENTS ARE CIRCULAR UNLESS YOU PERSIST IN STRAW MEN AND YOU HAVE BEEN TOLD HOW MY THEORY MATCHES AND EXPLAINS OBSERVATIONS AND THE LOGICAL DEDUCTIONS FOR THE PROPERTIES OF AETHER. WHY EXACTLY SHOULD I REPEAT MYSELF WHEN YOU DO NOTHING EXCEPT IGNORE EVERY WORD I SAY? WHY SHOUDL I WASTE ANY MORE TIME ON YOU? CONSIDER ACTUALLY READING THE THREADS WE HAVE SPOKEN IN AND READING MY POSTS RATHER THAN BULLSHITTING TIME AND TIME AGAIN. LEARN. TO. READ.

if you're going to insist that my arguments are circular, give an example: and if it is the same example you used before AND WHICH I RESPONDED TO BEFORE you will be blocked as you will have made it clear YOU ARE INCAPABLE OF ADMITTING YOU ARE WRONG AND OF READINGA  WORD I SAY.

elimist, repeating yourself over multiple threads doesn't make you right. you've even been shown to be wrong by one of your own (though his active transport example is clearly irrelevant: other factors are at play). it's like thermodynamics, a closed system is needed for the law to apply. if you look at the active transport system as a whole rather than just isolated, open examples, you'll see the law in action.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: mikeman7918 on May 25, 2015, 10:39:11 AM
Does duel Earth theory have an explenation for sunsets?
yes. read the thread. you've been pointed to it multiple times, are you physically capable of reading?

That's what you usually say when I ask that.  I havn't been too active on this thread so if you don't mind I would like to save an hour or more of reading.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: FETlolcakes on May 25, 2015, 03:38:34 PM
I HAVE REPEATEDLY YOU ILLITERATE MORON. YOU HAVE BEEN SHOWN WHY NONE OF MY ARGUMENTS ARE CIRCULAR UNLESS YOU PERSIST IN STRAW MEN AND YOU HAVE BEEN TOLD HOW MY THEORY MATCHES AND EXPLAINS OBSERVATIONS AND THE LOGICAL DEDUCTIONS FOR THE PROPERTIES OF AETHER. WHY EXACTLY SHOULD I REPEAT MYSELF WHEN YOU DO NOTHING EXCEPT IGNORE EVERY WORD I SAY? WHY SHOUDL I WASTE ANY MORE TIME ON YOU? CONSIDER ACTUALLY READING THE THREADS WE HAVE SPOKEN IN AND READING MY POSTS RATHER THAN BULLSHITTING TIME AND TIME AGAIN. LEARN. TO. READ.

Please, enough gum flapping and ad hominems. Please show us your evidence derived from experiments.

If what you're actually telling us is correct about how you came to these conclusions, why on earth should anyone take anything you have to say seriously? It is literally nothing more than a randoms person thoughts on what they think best explains the world around them whilst concurrently ignoring centuries of scientific observation, progression and empirical data. Great. Really great... but so what? I can do the same thing and say I came to my conclusions through 'logical deductions', but that is meaningless. Logical deductions ≠ empirical evidence.

Sorry to have to spell out to all and sundry what they already knew, but JRowe, his proclamations and his hubris routine are seriously getting old. I just thought it time for him to just put up or shut up. Now he's admitted that his ramblings are just that, at least now I can just post that citations required pic every time he posts. Cool!
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Mikey T. on May 26, 2015, 08:54:42 AM
From my personal observations and deductive reasoning alone:
The sun and moon rising and setting.  Either the Earth is turning and round with the moon orbiting in the same direction as that turn, or the sun and moon are orbiting the Earth with the Sun orbiting faster than the Moon. 
The stars rotating around a fixed point, at least in the Northern Hemisphere.  Either the Stars rotate above our heads and it is centered at the North pole, and the Earth is round due to the time in the Northern hemisphere for nighttime being different while I was in Iraq and my Wife was in the States, or the Earth is round and it spins.
Boats disappearing over the horizon, this weekend.  That I could not bring back into view with a pair of Sunagor 30-160x70 Mega Zoom Binoculars.  I tried with my zoom on my camera phone too but could not find anything either.  Did this on Ship Island off the coast in Biloxi MS, watching a sailboat with my best guess os 15 to 20 ft mast height that was heading out South East from the Ship Island area. 
The use of satellite communications (TV, Internet and Military communications).  I have a ton of experience setting up and using satellite dishes.  I have never set one up for a stationary orbital position that was not South.  This includes the Middle East, Germany, and several places in the US.  All from the Northern hemisphere.  Using the settings from those multitude of different systems and locations, the height that these orbital locations above the ground and the degree of precision to lock in on these locations tells me that they are very much n line with what is reported for their actual locations.  So this means that something is floating up there, very high up, outside the atmosphere.  Either physics is wrong and gravity doesn't work or the Earth is round and those are in geostationary orbital locations.
Flight time from Santiago Chile to Aukland NZ vs LAX to Aukland NZ.  During a trip that was cut short, I had my wife fly to New Zealand, her last stop was LAX before a direct connection to Aukland.  Mine was from Santiago direct nonstop to Aukland.  Talking to my wife on the phone as she was about to board, and measuring the time vs my flight time showed that my flight was almost an hour shorter than hers.  This means the flat Earth maps do not work and the Round Earth maps do.
So logical deductions from observations for me is that the Earth is round.
No assumptions of properties of an unknown thing like aether needed, no assumption of the sun being projected out by aether to look like it circles the Earth, not assumptions of aether being space and it somehow gets thicker and thinner, no assumptions of aetheric transportation needed, no real assumptions of what holds us to the ground (I maintain that gravity is not an assumption).  The only assumption that you could even say I made, which I do not think is an assumption, is that gravity works as advertised on Earth.
So my observational evidence requires less assumptions therefore it must be right.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on May 26, 2015, 10:47:54 AM
I havn't been too active on this thread so if you don't mind I would like to save an hour or more of reading.
every time you brought that up, i pointed you to it. flat earth model, informaion repository, page 3 or 4, ctrl f 'sun'.

Please show us your evidence derived from experiments.
yet more examples of how you ignore eveyrhing you are told. science does not require experiments, science requires observation. experiments are a kind of observation, but they are not required: look at astronomers.
but i bet you'll ignore that as you did the multiple other times i brought that up. definitely blocked.

not assumptions of aether being space
are you seriously struggling with the difference between an assumption and a definition?!

you cannot list multiple applications of aether as separate assumptions. there are two. try to count. TWO. everything comes from those: such as aetheric trasmission (which is no more special than any other kind of movement). and it doesn't matter what you maintain, that doesn't make it true. if there are multiple explanations for observations, as there are, te simplest must be taken. as gravity is not fully explained, it is necessarily an assumption: you do not know how mass alters space or how the movement of space exerts that force, in addition it seems illogical. aether has two assumptions, both logical, and from that alone it trumps your fantasy.

you also ignore dual earth theory for an answer to flight times so well done on your obvious ignorance
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Mikey T. on May 26, 2015, 12:55:16 PM
Aetherric transmission, the instantaneous travel without you knowing its happening, that also bends light to make it look like there is no division between the sides of the dual Earth is not a set of separate assumptions?  Aether holds us to the two sides and acts as gravity isn't another separate assumption?  Aether is space and yet it is matter and energy is not all separate assumptions?  Aether gets thicker as you leave the surface of the Earth and this is not another assumption?  Aether directs light in separate directions as to make the sun, which is at the center of the Earth appear to be over the top and bottom halves of this dual Earth and that's not yet another list of separate assumptions? 
The flight times were to show yet another observation that was made by me that will not fit with the flat Earth map, yet since you want to bring it up, it has to be explained since your assumption full aethic transmission theory would have to be involved since my wife flew from the Northern hemisphere to the Southern, and we both flew back from the Southern to the Northern hemisphere. 
I did the same as you, listed observations made by me, used logical deductions to come up with a model, then checked and saw that I made fewer assumptions than you have.  I don't even make an assumption of a conspiracy covering everything up.  So how are my observations and logical deductions any less valid than yours?
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: FETlolcakes on May 26, 2015, 02:10:07 PM
Please show us your evidence derived from experiments.
yet more examples of how you ignore eveyrhing you are told. science does not require experiments, science requires observation. experiments are a kind of observation, but they are not required: look at astronomers.
but i bet you'll ignore that as you did the multiple other times i brought that up. 

You've said some unintentionally hilarious things on this forum, but the bolded doozey above might just take the cake. Are you actually being serious about science not needing experiments to confirm or deny hypotheses? What does that leave science with when you have two competing hypothesis both of which are based on observations? How would anyone determine which hypothesis is correct without performing experiments? Eeny, meeny, miny moe?

Just wow... and LOL too.

Also, thank you for confirming that you've done no experiments and that your dual-earth hypothesis (sic) is entirely made up on an ad hoc basis (eg. your reversal of the proposed dual-sun which you then turned into a single sun in the center of the earth and claimed it still matched observations... *brain explodes*).

definitely blocked.

Soon, you'll have blocked everyone that disagrees with you then it will just be you, the trolls and the imbeciles left to have circle jerks over your aether and all of the magical things it does for your hypothesis (sic).
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on May 26, 2015, 02:16:12 PM
etherric transmission, the instantaneous travel without you knowing its happening,
which is the exact same principle as normal movement which you would know if you'd paid the slightest bit of attention to pretty much anything i've said on the topic. you were specifically told this. are you even reading my posts?

that also bends light to make it look like there is no division between the sides of the dual Earth
not even closer. aether is space. pay attention.
the sun is the same current that causes aetheric transmission, and that current is the result of the movement from high to low, which is deduced to be present in this case by the existence of tehe arth and how the particles for it must have come together. you are claiming consequeces as assumptions. that is, you are being either incredibly stupid or deliberately dishonest. that is not an insult, that is a fact, given that you have already been directly told this: and have either chosen to ignore it, or are just illiterate.

don't act like an authority when every word you say is making your ignorance clear.

and again, those things are consequences of two specific traits. every single one of them.

or can i now count as assumptions of the round earth model how the force that keeps us on the earth's surface, how the force that makes us orbit the sun, how the force that makes satellites orbt the earth, how the force that caused the sun... can i count all of those as separate, just because they are different applications of the same thing?

are you putting any thought whatsoever into what you're saying?

then checked and saw that I made fewer assumptions than you have.
you have been shown that is a lie.

You've said some unintentionally hilarious things on this forum, but the bolded doozey above might just take the cake. Are you actually being serious about science not needing experiments to confirm or deny hypotheses? What does that leave science with when you have two competing hypothesis both of which are based on observations? How would anyone determine which hypothesis is correct without performing experiments? Eeny, meeny, miny moe?
hmm, HOW ABOUT YOU TRY TO ACTUALLY READ THE POST

or let me know what experiments you've done to confirm the moon goes around the earth. did you create your own solar system? or,r adical thought, did you just rely on observations?
seriously, don't be a moron, don't insult for the sake of it, THINK.
you are not paying any attention whatsoever to a word i say. why are you acting like you understand anything about dual earth theory when you aren't even capable of reading the half-sentence after the one you bolded?
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Mikey T. on May 27, 2015, 08:29:16 AM
Ok personal insults, even when you say they are not, are still insults.  I say again, what makes your observations and deductions more correct than mine? You can say you use fewer assumptions all you like and call me a liar all you like, this still doesn't make what you are saying true.  I have read your posts, I have asked questions nicely, you immediately scream and then say I am stupid or cannot read.  Just because you say something is so doesn't make it so. 
I gave you a list of things that I observed, and the logical deductions I made from them.  Nothing taken from what someone else did or said, save for my wife's flight time from LAX.  There was no reason for her to lie to me about it.  The aetheric transmission is akin to teleportation in star trek.  You stated before that you cannot see or feel the transfer from the top to the bottom disc.  This is not just movement through space.  You say aether is space, yet that is in itself an assumption, not just a rewording as you claim.  You assign different properties to it, the thicker and thinner to be more specific.  In what we normally observe, space is a dimension, basically the area "stuff" is in and the distance between.  There is one fringe theory that allows for the stretching and compressing of spacetime, but that purely theoretical math that was devised as a way to make star trek's warp drive scenario work.  It also would not be like you are using aether at this point. 
So I will ask again, what makes your observations and deductions more valid than mine, and cut the liar crap.  It is tired and incorrect.  You have no reason to call me a liar whatsoever.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on May 27, 2015, 08:33:42 AM
what makes your observations and deductions more correct than mine?
answered. pay attention. my problem is not with your observations, it is with the unnecessary assumptions in your deductions. you. have. been. answered.
i never denied that there were assumptions: there are a total of two, and both are logical. this is far better than round earth theory.

The aetheric transmission is akin to teleportation in star trek.  You stated before that you cannot see or feel the transfer from the top to the bottom disc.  This is not just movement through space.
it is exactly movement through space. seriously, i have created a whole thread with no clutter in the information repository, read it rather than remaining willfully ignorant and ignoring eveyrthing i say. if you do not understand the model, stop acting like an authority. it is absolutely nothing like star trek, there is no teleportation whatsoever, just movement through space. that is all that happens.
i have plenty of reasons to call you a liar as your bs about aetheric transmission makes clear. you are ignoring correction. you are ignoring the theory i am actually proposing. how is that not dishonesty?
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Quail on May 27, 2015, 08:48:18 AM
How come we do not see two suns at once for the majority of the day as the solar light can just go through the etheric portal things twice and shine back on us from the opposite direction?
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Mikey T. on May 27, 2015, 09:46:21 AM

i have plenty of reasons to call you a liar as your bs about aetheric transmission makes clear. you are ignoring correction. you are ignoring the theory i am actually proposing. how is that not dishonesty?
Again, you are calling me a liar simply because I am disagreeing with you.
Also, I outlined what assumptions I have made and the ones you clearly are making.  So you come back with the "can't read" part again.  If you cannot defend your position without insults or ignoring what others are questioning, do not make it.  This is the part where you defend it, not make yourself look like a jackass.  If someone is asking you to explain something further, it doesn't mean they are ignoring you.  If they do not accept your answers, with good reasons, that means you have failed to defend your hypothesis.  You must either rework your hypothesis or find a way to answer those questions being asked.  Until then it is fantasy.  It is becoming clear that you do not understand what an assumption is.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on May 27, 2015, 10:31:01 AM
How come we do not see two suns at once for the majority of the day as the solar light can just go through the etheric portal things twice and shine back on us from the opposite direction?
because if that happened it would directly contradict dual earth theory. there is no such thing as an aetheric portal.

Also, I outlined what assumptions I have made and the ones you clearly are making.
you outlined several consequences. do you understand what an assumption is? if it is deduced as a consequence of something, it is not an assumption, it is a conclusion. do i really need to explain this? please, familiarize yourself with the model, i have a new cleared up thread in the repository. everything follows from the definition of aether: just two points, both logical.

If they do not accept your answers, with good reasons, that means you have failed to defend your hypothesis.
and if they do not accept my answers because they've just ignored them, the i will insult them because i am sick of constantly having my time wasted.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Mikey T. on May 27, 2015, 10:41:09 AM

Also, I outlined what assumptions I have made and the ones you clearly are making.
you outlined several consequences. do you understand what an assumption is? if it is deduced as a consequence of something, it is not an assumption, it is a conclusion. do i really need to explain this? please, familiarize yourself with the model, i have a new cleared up thread in the repository. everything follows from the definition of aether: just two points, both logical.
No, assumptions are anything you cannot directly or indirectly prove.  You are leaving much out of what you are claiming you are doing.  You are basing those conclusions on assumptions therefore they are not conclusions, they are still assumptions.  Everything in your model is an assumption, you observe something then assume its this because you assumed this other stuff exists, well then you have to assume more properties of this other stuff, etc.  This is what your dual Earth thread has been from the beginning.  You are basing it off of your assumption of aether.  Oh since you love to try to push others down, I will bring up something that others may not have read. You claim that the aether has told you of it's existence through direct thoughts.  This is the overall basis of your model, the voices in your head. 
If they do not accept your answers, with good reasons, that means you have failed to defend your hypothesis.
and if they do not accept my answers because they've just ignored them, the i will insult them because i am sick of constantly having my time wasted.
You still fail to realize that just giving the "I told you this is how it is" is not a valid response when someone is asking for clarification.  So find a better way of defending your argument, no one that is asking you questions repeatedly is ignoring you.  They are giving you the opportunity to prove what you are claiming.  You keep refusing to do this.  You just get upset and start freaking out.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on May 27, 2015, 12:39:49 PM
You are basing those conclusions on assumptions therefore they are not conclusions, they are still assumptions.
so, dark matter is an assumption. if it does not exist, gravity does not work, so everything round earthers say is explained by gravity must also be an assumption. indeed, gravity itself is an assumption: we do not know why mass bends space or why that exerts a force, we simply assume it does and that there is no alternative explanation.
science is made by assumptions. you take a view of things that explains observations: that is your assumption, because you can never be completely sure that the true cause is not something else that could have the same consequences. you then conclude things based upon those assumptions.
this is how science works. you do not get to reject it just because you refuse to accept an alternative theory.

You claim that the aether has told you of it's existence through direct thoughts.  This is the overall basis of your model, the voices in your head. 
firstly, it is hardly 'telling or 'direct thoughts'. secondly, i have never asked anyone to accept the model based on my personal experience. that would be absurd. i provide evidence, of which there is plenty, as well as simple logic.

So find a better way of defending your argument, no one that is asking you questions repeatedly is ignoring you.
if i rephrased myself every single time someone insisted i repeat myself i would never have time to do anything. i ask for clarification if my answer is not enough, and it is never provided. mainframes and pythagoras are the worst offenders: both are explicitly and repeatedly ask to clarify. mainframes stops showing up, and pythagoras apparently has a religious objection to doing so.
many people do indeed ignore me, as you can see just by reading threads. i've seen several openly use arguments almost verbatim to ones i quoted and refuted from them before, and they don't even acknowledge that fact.
you do not get to insist your ideal world is a reality. this happens. whether you think the world is flat or round, many round earthers are pathetic debaters. mikeman for example asks the same exact question and never responds to the answers i give whenever he asks it a second time. it's pathetic, plain and simple.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: mikeman7918 on May 27, 2015, 01:00:42 PM
Jrowe, if your model is so simple then why havn't you produced any math yet?  My guess is that you are either afraid that you are wrong or you slept through your math classes.  Possibly both.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on May 27, 2015, 01:07:05 PM
Jrowe, if your model is so simple then why havn't you produced any math yet?  My guess is that you are either afraid that you are wrong or you slept through your math classes.  Possibly both.

why are you incapable of reading the multiple answers i have given to that question? hell, there's even a whole paragraph on it in my new model thread. why do you keep asking questions if you are not interested in the answers?
what is the point in trying to educate you if you will just ignore everything i say and ask the exact same question with some insults thrown in at a later date rather than acknowledge anything?

Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Mikey T. on May 27, 2015, 03:50:28 PM
Why are you so incapable of giving a straight answer.  Does it have mathematical formulas to back up your claims.  Answer you should give.  "No, but I am working on them".  Even though that is part lie, you are not working on them, it would suffice more than, I TOLD YOU ALREADY!!! CANT YOU READ.  LOOK AT THE OTHER POST.  or something along those lines.
Why do you think there is less assumptions, your answer... hell I can't even come up with one that would make sense, but something that makes sense and not your usual stuff. 
Things like that.  Stop claiming others are less than you, they are not.  You refuse to listen and claim that others are delusional , retarded, or just trolling you.
You are exhibiting all the signs of schizophrenia.
Quote from: Mayo Clinic link=http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/schizophrenia/basics/definition/con-20021077
Schizophrenia is a severe brain disorder in which people interpret reality abnormally. Schizophrenia may result in some combination of hallucinations, delusions, and extremely disordered thinking and behavior.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: mikeman7918 on May 27, 2015, 03:54:40 PM
Jrowe, if your model is so simple then why havn't you produced any math yet?  My guess is that you are either afraid that you are wrong or you slept through your math classes.  Possibly both.

why are you incapable of reading the multiple answers i have given to that question? hell, there's even a whole paragraph on it in my new model thread. why do you keep asking questions if you are not interested in the answers?
what is the point in trying to educate you if you will just ignore everything i say and ask the exact same question with some insults thrown in at a later date rather than acknowledge anything?

I have better things to do then read through every one of your posts.

Now do you have math or not?
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on May 28, 2015, 05:04:45 AM
Jrowe, if your model is so simple then why havn't you produced any math yet?  My guess is that you are either afraid that you are wrong or you slept through your math classes.  Possibly both.

why are you incapable of reading the multiple answers i have given to that question? hell, there's even a whole paragraph on it in my new model thread. why do you keep asking questions if you are not interested in the answers?
what is the point in trying to educate you if you will just ignore everything i say and ask the exact same question with some insults thrown in at a later date rather than acknowledge anything?

I have better things to do then read through every one of your posts.

Now do you have math or not?

you don't need to read through every one of my posts. you need to read the responses i directly give every time you ask that question. try it sometime. try to actually respond to a word i say, or are you too idiotic for that?

can you read?
if you are not even going to respond to my posts, i would just like to address all readers of this conversation to point out that fact. you are not even trying to have a discussion, you are just ignoring. you are pathetic.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: mikeman7918 on May 28, 2015, 08:41:55 AM
Jrowe, if your model is so simple then why havn't you produced any math yet?  My guess is that you are either afraid that you are wrong or you slept through your math classes.  Possibly both.

why are you incapable of reading the multiple answers i have given to that question? hell, there's even a whole paragraph on it in my new model thread. why do you keep asking questions if you are not interested in the answers?
what is the point in trying to educate you if you will just ignore everything i say and ask the exact same question with some insults thrown in at a later date rather than acknowledge anything?

I have better things to do then read through every one of your posts.

Now do you have math or not?

you don't need to read through every one of my posts. you need to read the responses i directly give every time you ask that question. try it sometime. try to actually respond to a word i say, or are you too idiotic for that?

can you read?
if you are not even going to respond to my posts, i would just like to address all readers of this conversation to point out that fact. you are not even trying to have a discussion, you are just ignoring. you are pathetic.

How would you suggest I go about finding these posts?  I have better things to do then to go through your many posts trying to find a particular one.  Just give me a strait yes or no answer: do you have any math to discribed the aether?
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: ausGeoff on May 29, 2015, 03:52:49 AM
you don't need to read through every one of my posts. you need to read the responses i directly give every time you ask that question. try it sometime. try to actually respond to a word i say, or are you too idiotic for that?

can you read?
if you are not even going to respond to my posts, i would just like to address all readers of this conversation to point out that fact. you are not even trying to have a discussion, you are just ignoring. you are pathetic.

Is there any particular reason this juvenile troll hasn't yet been banned?


Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on May 29, 2015, 05:47:50 AM
How would you suggest I go about finding these posts?
you could always read the ones i post in direct answer to your quetsions. literally my first response in this thread has an asnwer. are you going to acknowledge it yet? i see no reason i should have to repat myself when you're just digging yourself deeper and deeper. with every post, you just further show all you're capable of doing is ignoring me. you have been answered over multiple threads. you've even replied to those answers so you must have read them, surely? do you really need to ask the same exact question again when you've seen the answer before?
why are you asking the same questio multiple times? what is your motivation? clearly it's not the answer you're interested in.

oh, right, of course. you're interested only in dishonesty and straw men free from the context of my answer. that would make sense, otherwise you'd actually have read the thread in the information repository you were specifically directed to. basic thing to do, if you actually wanted an answer.

Is there any particular reason this juvenile troll hasn't yet been banned?
i answer questions and contribute to discussions. why haven't you been banne dyet? you do neither of those things, and you insult far more than i do, with far less cause.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: The Ellimist on May 29, 2015, 06:39:30 PM
You are basing those conclusions on assumptions therefore they are not conclusions, they are still assumptions.
so, dark matter is an assumption. if it does not exist, gravity does not work, so everything round earthers say is explained by gravity must also be an assumption. indeed, gravity itself is an assumption: we do not know why mass bends space or why that exerts a force, we simply assume it does and that there is no alternative explanation.
science is made by assumptions. you take a view of things that explains observations: that is your assumption, because you can never be completely sure that the true cause is not something else that could have the same consequences. Then you conduct experiments to determine whether your "assumption" is true. you then conclude things based upon those assumptions.
Fixed that for ya
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on May 30, 2015, 03:37:49 AM
if you knew anything about any kind of logical thought, you would know the difference between corroboration and confirmation. dual earth theory has the former, no science has the latter.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: The Ellimist on May 30, 2015, 06:54:38 AM
if you knew anything about any kind of logical thought, you would know the difference between corroboration and confirmation. dual earth theory has the former, no science has the latter.
Are you saying that no experiments confirm dual earth to be true? If that is the case, then how do you know round earth explanations aren't true?
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on May 30, 2015, 07:43:57 AM
if you knew anything about any kind of logical thought, you would know the difference between corroboration and confirmation. dual earth theory has the former, no science has the latter.
Are you saying that no experiments confirm dual earth to be true? If that is the case, then how do you know round earth explanations aren't true?

no science confirms anything to be true: it confirms observations. how we interpret those observations is what science is. if another observation matches an explanation, that is corroboration: it is not confirmation.
did you even read my post? come back when you understand occam's razor.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: mikeman7918 on May 30, 2015, 09:09:24 AM
if you knew anything about any kind of logical thought, you would know the difference between corroboration and confirmation. dual earth theory has the former, no science has the latter.
Are you saying that no experiments confirm dual earth to be true? If that is the case, then how do you know round earth explanations aren't true?

no science confirms anything to be true: it confirms observations. how we interpret those observations is what science is. if another observation matches an explanation, that is corroboration: it is not confirmation.
did you even read my post? come back when you understand occam's razor.

Occam's razor requires that both theories in question be equally good at making predictions.  Flat Earth theory cannot make predictions because of a lack of math, so I suggest you get around to mathematically discribing aether soon.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on May 30, 2015, 01:00:51 PM
if you knew anything about any kind of logical thought, you would know the difference between corroboration and confirmation. dual earth theory has the former, no science has the latter.
Are you saying that no experiments confirm dual earth to be true? If that is the case, then how do you know round earth explanations aren't true?

no science confirms anything to be true: it confirms observations. how we interpret those observations is what science is. if another observation matches an explanation, that is corroboration: it is not confirmation.
did you even read my post? come back when you understand occam's razor.

Occam's razor requires that both theories in question be equally good at making predictions.  Flat Earth theory cannot make predictions because of a lack of math, so I suggest you get around to mathematically discribing aether soon.

it cannot make detailed predictions as of yet: but it is clearly capable of doing so given more information. if your only argument is a false comparison based on the age of your fantasy (argument from tradition: fallacy) then you have nothing to stand on. dual earth theory can still make predictions.
some of us are trying to have actual discussions. stop repeating the same old bs and ignoring how it has been repeatedly shown to be irrelevant. shut up and get a new argument.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: ausGeoff on May 30, 2015, 05:10:09 PM
no science confirms anything to be true: it confirms observations.
And those scientific confirmations prove (or disprove) the observations to be correct.  Science says that clouds consist of water vapour—or compounded hydrogen and oxygen.  Measurements of the constituents of clouds (or observations) prove this to be true.

Quote
how we interpret those observations is what science is. if another observation matches an explanation, that is corroboration: it is not confirmation.
did you even read my post? come back when you understand occam's razor.

I agree that "interpretation" of scientific observations is vitally important in confirming a hypothesis (that clouds are water vapour for example) and thus developing a theory.    Whether or not something is simply corroborated upon by a number of individuals is neither here nor there;  hundreds of people agree with each other that the earth is flat, but that neither proves or disproves it to be so.  None of those people has any empirical evidence whatsoever to support the viewpoint that it's flat, whereas millions of scientists have independently verified that the earth is an oblate spheroid.  For example, the phenomenon we call gravity can be observed to act as postulated by science, and more importantly, can be replicated repeatedly.

And judging by your logic [sic] I'm thinking it's you who should be contemplating Occam's Razor.  The myriad physical phenomena we observe on planet earth all point to a spherical body, spinning on its axis, and periodically orbiting a stationary star.  Any/all such earthly phenomena require a much greater amount of "tweaking" and denial of the scientific status quo in order to even suggest a flat planet.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: The Ellimist on May 30, 2015, 06:53:24 PM
no science confirms anything to be true: it confirms observations.
And those scientific confirmations prove (or disprove) the observations to be correct.  Science says that clouds consist of water vapour—or compounded hydrogen and oxygen.  Measurements of the constituents of clouds (or observations) prove this to be true.

Um, isn't measurement of the constituent clouds science? Science cannot say what clouds consist of until their constituents are measured.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on May 31, 2015, 09:11:50 AM
no science confirms anything to be true: it confirms observations.
And those scientific confirmations prove (or disprove) the observations to be correct.  Science says that clouds consist of water vapour—or compounded hydrogen and oxygen.  Measurements of the constituents of clouds (or observations) prove this to be true.

Um, isn't measurement of the constituent clouds science? Science cannot say what clouds consist of until their constituents are measured.

don't try to apply logic to geoff, he's here to insult. look at his post history, he's never once said anything meaningful. (for example, he's clearly negelcted to understand what i was saying, otherwise he'd understand grey clouds and the fact water vapor does exist in that area, but it falls when it condenses).
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: ausGeoff on June 06, 2015, 09:07:58 AM
don't try to apply logic to geoff, he's here to insult. look at his post history, he's never once said anything meaningful. (for example, he's clearly neglected to understand what i was saying, otherwise he'd understand grey clouds and the fact water vapor does exist in that area, but it falls when it condenses).

LOL..... there's no such thing as "grey" clouds.

And I'm "here to insult"?  Pot, meet kettle.    ;D
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: DavidOrJohn on January 28, 2018, 11:07:48 AM
in an effort to keep all discussion and refinement of the theory in one place, rather than the multiple threads covering the forums, please direct any questions you have about dual earth theory to this post.

if you are unfamiliar with the basic model:
http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=63027.msg1669258#msg1669258 (http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=63027.msg1669258#msg1669258)
read from there, onwards. it outlines the model itself, and refinements are made later on. a later post also explains the nature of aether in simple detail.

if something has already been answered either in this thread, or the original, i will ignore you as i am tired of having to repeat myself if you add nothing new. further, if i have you blocked, i will read your posts for the purposes of this thread, but i will hold you to this rule far more strictly.

ask away.

I have two questions for you.

1) if the largest meteor fragment that has landed on earth is 60 tonnes, and a space shuttle can weigh 2000 tonnes, how do you know the shuttle will not be robust enough to survive transition through the whirlpools?

2) has anyone ever performed an experiment to show that your whirlpools inarguably exist?

I would post this on your site but after I twice defeated you in a debate you have IP banned me which is quite intellectually dishonest, in my humble opinion.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on January 28, 2018, 11:11:58 AM
I banned you because you are a troll, no matter whatyou claim. I answered your question repeatedly, and I am singularly sick of polite trolls, that create a facade of intelligence and honesty to gain sympathy and respect when they are doing nothing but wasting time.
What matters is the strength of a ship's hull (the wall) not the mass of the entire damn thing. A child could tell you that. A child could also tell you that given I repeatedly gave you the properties of the whirlpools and instances of observations of what they accomplish, you have experiments. There is an entire evidence section devoted to why DET is scientifically preferred to alternatives, and the whirlpools are obviously a part of DET.

Stop wasting my time, I am not going to bother with your blatant and transparent dishonesty.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: DavidOrJohn on January 28, 2018, 11:21:25 AM
I banned you because you are a troll, no matter whatyou claim. I answered your question repeatedly, and I am singularly sick of polite trolls, that create a facade of intelligence and honesty to gain sympathy and respect when they are doing nothing but wasting time.
What matters is the strength of a ship's hull (the wall) not the mass of the entire damn thing. A child could tell you that. A child could also tell you that given I repeatedly gave you the properties of the whirlpools and instances of observations of what they accomplish, you have experiments. There is an entire evidence section devoted to why DET is scientifically preferred to alternatives, and the whirlpools are obviously a part of DET.

Stop wasting my time, I am not going to bother with your blatant and transparent dishonesty.

You refused to answer any questions other than one about the equator.

We have yet to experience anything break up that comes close to the mass nor durability of a space shuttle. How do you even know the network fragments are actual fragments, how do you know they aren't the full meteor that survived the whirlpools? Remember you cannot rely on original meteor measurements as they rely on space technology to measure them.

You mentioned only one experiment which could prove the existence of a whirlpool and that had the caveat that you were unable to have the experiment carried out. That does not qualify as an answer.

I'm not a troll, I was looking for answers, I still am. It just seems you aren't prepared to answer them.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on January 28, 2018, 11:24:41 AM
You are lying, again. You are lying about the post you are literally quoting. This is a waste of time, good riddance.
You ignore my explanation about meteor showers observably being a meteor splitting apart, you ignore how many meteors are solid chunks of metal, you ignore the ENTIRE EVIDENCE SECTION and ALL THE EFFECTS OF THE WHIRLPOOL I JUST REFERENCED.

You are a liar and a troll. Stop acting otherwise, it is truly disgusting. I do not care about your childish "Look at me, I'm so innocent!" holier than thou act.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on January 28, 2018, 11:34:18 AM
For context to readers:
I have been talking to this person for multiple pages, over a course of months. In all that time I have called him out for his dishonesty multiple times, and he has never changed. This is not a decision I made quickly.
You are more than welcome to read the threads where this person ignored the overview, ignored the posts he was responding to, lied to my face, and constantly demanded I repeat myself to the point of making a second thread to cover questions I had already answered in the first.

http://dualearththeory.proboards.com/thread/26/space-travel-conspiracy-another-assumption

http://dualearththeory.proboards.com/thread/32/impossibility-space-travel

A temporary ban is the least someone would do in that situation.

He is a type of troll I have a particular dislike for. There are the vulgar trolls, yes, but they are transparent. You know what you're getting into. He, meanwhile, is a troll. He uses the same smug tactics, relies on the same arrogance, both of which you can see displayed, but hides it behind a simpering act of moral superiority to try and gain pity. He deserves the exact same treatment as any troll, but he tries to make you feel bad for doing what you have to do. It is a disgusting trick, meant to manipulate flat earthers and round earther readers alike. Look at the big bad flat earther who won't put up with the constant timewasting demands! Look at the poor innocent roundie!
Not once has he asked anything that was not already answered. That is the long and short of it. He wastes time, but expects you to treat him like an actually serious user.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: sokarul on January 28, 2018, 11:37:41 AM
I like how you told me aether is gravity and aether condenses into matter.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: DavidOrJohn on January 28, 2018, 11:39:44 AM
For context to readers:
I have been talking to this person for multiple pages, over a course of months. In all that time I have called him out for his dishonesty multiple times, and he has never changed. This is not a decision I made quickly.
You are more than welcome to read the threads where this person ignored the overview, ignored the posts he was responding to, lied to my face, and constantly demanded I repeat myself to the point of making a second thread to cover questions I had already answered in the first.

http://dualearththeory.proboards.com/thread/26/space-travel-conspiracy-another-assumption

http://dualearththeory.proboards.com/thread/32/impossibility-space-travel

A temporary ban is the least someone would do in that situation.

He is a type of troll I have a particular dislike for. There are the vulgar trolls, yes, but they are transparent. You know what you're getting into. He, meanwhile, is a troll. He uses the same smug tactics, relies on the same arrogance, both of which you can see displayed, but hides it behind a simpering act of moral superiority to try and gain pity. He deserves the exact same treatment as any troll, but he tries to make you feel bad for doing what you have to do. It is a disgusting trick, meant to manipulate flat earthers and round earther readers alike. Look at the big bad flat earther who won't put up with the constant timewasting demands! Look at the poor innocent roundie!
Not once has he asked anything that was not already answered. That is the long and short of it. He wastes time, but expects you to treat him like an actually serious user.

I have no intention on responding to your insults or question marks on my character. I only want to debate the topic at hand.

Do we know for certain a meteor shower is a meteor breaking apart, has anyone actually shown this to be the case? Could it not be  a multitude of small meteors entering the atmosphere?

I only seek an experiment that has been carried out to prove the existence of said whirlpools. Not observations in line with a theory but an actual experiment to show they exist.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on January 28, 2018, 11:41:24 AM
I like how you told me aether is gravity and aether condenses into matter.
Aether is responsible for what gets called gravity, and the latter was idle speculation when I was developing the theory and I never presented it as anything else.

I have no intention on responding to your insults or question marks on my character. I only want to debate the topic at hand.
If that was the case you would have already responded to the multiple times I have answered, even in this thread. Your 'character' is the entire problem here. I will not waste my time on a troll.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: DavidOrJohn on January 28, 2018, 11:42:40 AM
I like how you told me aether is gravity and aether condenses into matter.
Aether is responsible for what gets called gravity, and the latter was idle speculation when I was developing the theory and I never presented it as anything else.

I have no intention on responding to your insults or question marks on my character. I only want to debate the topic at hand.
If that was the case you would have already responded to the multiple times I have answered, even in this thread. Your 'character' is the entire problem here. I will not waste my time on a troll.

Should we not question that which we get told?
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on January 28, 2018, 11:44:46 AM
I like how you told me aether is gravity and aether condenses into matter.
Aether is responsible for what gets called gravity, and the latter was idle speculation when I was developing the theory and I never presented it as anything else.

I have no intention on responding to your insults or question marks on my character. I only want to debate the topic at hand.
If that was the case you would have already responded to the multiple times I have answered, even in this thread. Your 'character' is the entire problem here. I will not waste my time on a troll.

Should we not question that which we get told?

Another perfect example of this sickening behavior. I particularly dislike holier-than-thou trolls and their brand of manipulation.
If he had questioned my answers rather than ignored the multiple times I gave them, we would not be in this situation.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: DavidOrJohn on January 28, 2018, 12:24:00 PM
I like how you told me aether is gravity and aether condenses into matter.
Aether is responsible for what gets called gravity, and the latter was idle speculation when I was developing the theory and I never presented it as anything else.

I have no intention on responding to your insults or question marks on my character. I only want to debate the topic at hand.
If that was the case you would have already responded to the multiple times I have answered, even in this thread. Your 'character' is the entire problem here. I will not waste my time on a troll.

Should we not question that which we get told?

Another perfect example of this sickening behavior. I particularly dislike holier-than-thou trolls and their brand of manipulation.
If he had questioned my answers rather than ignored the multiple times I gave them, we would not be in this situation.

Again please note I have not insulted you once. I have merely stumbled across your websites looking for answers.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JackBlack on January 28, 2018, 12:37:52 PM
I banned you because you are a troll, no matter whatyou claim. I answered your question repeatedly, and I am singularly sick of polite trolls, that create a facade of intelligence and honesty to gain sympathy and respect when they are doing nothing but wasting time.
You mean doing nothing but refuting you.

See, this is why I don't bother with your site, because you are horribly biased and will just delete posts you deem too damaging to your position.

You are lying, again. You are lying about the post you are literally quoting.
No he isn't.

This is a waste of time, good riddance.
Yes, if you have no intent on honestly debating all you are doing is wasting time.

You ignore my explanation about meteor showers observably being a meteor splitting apart
No they aren't.

you ignore the ENTIRE EVIDENCE SECTION
Your evidence sections is about bitching about what evidence is to pretend all the evidence for the globe is evidence for your model. You haven't actually provided any evidence for your model.

ALL THE EFFECTS OF THE WHIRLPOOL I JUST REFERENCED.
But you didn't. You merely suggested that there are effects and observations. You never indicated any of them.

You are a liar and a troll. Stop acting otherwise, it is truly disgusting. I do not care about your childish "Look at me, I'm so innocent!" holier than thou act.
Projecting again I see.

You are more than welcome to read the threads where this person ignored the overview, ignored the posts he was responding to, lied to my face, and constantly demanded I repeat myself to the point of making a second thread to cover questions I had already answered in the first.
You mean see some more examples of your wonderful dishonesty?
Such as pretending that space travel being fake is a conclusion rather than an assumption for your model to be valid?
Where you say that just blindly taking someones word is unscientific, while you ignore the fact that dismissing them as liars is also completely unscientific as it is ignoring the evidence.

As a best case scenario you have 2 models, the currently accepted one, and your delusional model, which you claim to be unable to distinguish between.
But their observations break this. You either have these people telling the truth, and this means your model is wrong, or they are all liars.
The rational conclusion is that your model is wrong and these people aren't all liars, especially considering the extent of the conspiracy involved.

As an alternative, consider this:

Earth is a sphere and the centre of the universe, made by a god just for us.
Nice and simple.
Anything which goes against this is just a lie as it contradicts the model.

Does that sound rational or scientific to you?
Baselessly assert a model and then anything that contradicts it is a lie?

A temporary ban is the least someone would do in that situation.
Someone who has no confidence in their position.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on January 28, 2018, 12:58:30 PM
Quote
See, this is why I don't bother with your site, because you are horribly biased and will just delete posts you deem too damaging to your position.
I openly linked to the still-existing threads.

Quote
Such as pretending that space travel being fake is a conclusion rather than an assumption for your model to be valid?
A simple fact. The facts of the model point to space travel being impossible. There is a reason to think that they lie.

Quote
Earth is a sphere and the centre of the universe, made by a god just for us.
Nice and simple.
Anything which goes against this is just a lie as it contradicts the model.

Does that sound rational or scientific to you?
No, because you have no conception of what 'simple' means. God is the most complex entity imaginable. You would need to justify the existence of something, that something being a being, a being with the ability to create that, the desire to create that, along with all the complexities that make up the 'that.' Anyone that says the Earth is not a sphere would be lying if that model were true, but anyone logical would reject the model for the number of assumptions required.

As ever you are demonstrating you understand nothing.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: DavidOrJohn on January 28, 2018, 01:12:03 PM
Quote
I openly linked to the still-existing threads.

But you deleted my most recent post and banned me. All because I beat you in a debate.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JackBlack on January 28, 2018, 01:15:18 PM
Quote
See, this is why I don't bother with your site, because you are horribly biased and will just delete posts you deem too damaging to your position.
I openly linked to the still-existing threads.
And are all the posts still there?
I have shown before that numerous posts are missing in your forum.

Where is post 348?

A simple fact. The facts of the model point to space travel being impossible. There is a reason to think that they lie.
You mean the assumptions of the model point to space travel being impossible, thus to explain the observation that people claim to have been to space and launched various objects into space you need a further assumption that they are lying.

Until you have an independent manner to confirm that space travel is impossible, this will remain as an assumption for your model to work rather than being a conclusion of your model.

Afterall, you have been completely unable to provide any evidence that your model is correct rather than the currently understood model.
The best you can do is say they should be the same so all evidence for the current model works for yours. But it doesn't space travel is a form of evidence you are ignoring which shows your model is wrong.

No, because you have no conception of what 'simple' means.
Sure I do.
But that wasn't the issue.
Is dismissing everything which contradicts your model as a lie scientific or rational?

I also wouldn't say it is more complex than yours with aether which appears to be sentient such that it can continue to flow with no reason to do so, which knows to drag matter down to Earth, but not tear Earth apart as it continues to flow.
I'm just saying rather than space having that sentience, some other entity does.

As ever you are demonstrating you understand nothing.
Projecting yet again.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on January 28, 2018, 01:25:04 PM
Quote
And are all the posts still there?
I have shown before that numerous posts are missing in your forum.
I deleted one post he made by circumventing his ban. That's all. It wasn't any content lost, as covered he only repeats himself.
And no, you haven't. This is another blatant lie by you. I move posts to a quarantine rather than delete them, so I have a full record of every deleted thread on the site.
There's that one post. There's a post by someone else making claims about my personal life. There's a post I made to explain my hiatus that is now irrelevant. As for the rest, there's one thread that was trolling I should not have allowed, and then, to copy and paste:

Quote from: whatthehell?
JRowe, you're an idiot of the highest proportions. 90% of your "theory" is based on assumptions, basing one assumption on another "base" assumption doesn't count as some kind of loophole. May work for an argument with your mom but not with the scientific community. Science is science, what you have though, that's just idiotic drunk/high nonsense. Seriously, if you honestly believe this stuff and aren't just a writer trying to sell a scifi universe I feel bad for you. You're obviously delusional to think YOU of all the people in history somehow discovered all science is a lie and not only that, you have a perfect model to refute upwards of tens of thousands observations. What in the hell are you on? I hope you're just on something, if not, seek therapy, seriously. Nobody is going to believe this crackpot handwaving nonsense, you can argue all you want but that'll still leave you alone, on this forum, wishing someone actually gave a shit about this nonsensical rambling.

Good day sir.

Quote from:
FagLord69666_The_Analator
YOU  ARE  ALL FAGGITS

Quote from: archimedes
I've got to say, this DET is a quite thorough and astonishing piece of fiction. It amazes me that there are people out there who would devote such a massive amount of time and energy to something like this. A word of advice on your future endeavors... You might want to work out the fundamentals a little bit more. You claim there is only one assumption you have to make for the DET to make sense, and then you gloss over countless problems by saying the answer can be assumed or inferred. You clearly don't know anything about scientific method if you truly believe that any fundamental aspect of a "theory" can just be assumed. For example- You say this fictional Aether stuff flows from high to low concentrations without any force acting on it, which violates one of Newtons laws right off the bat (or does it not break any laws because its not a physical substance? I'm confused now, because if that's the case, then it also wouldn't follow the laws that you claim set it in motion in the first place), and you also just freely fabricated the idea that there are naturally occurring 'low concentration' areas in the universe. How is there not a uniform concentrations of Aether naturally? And how is there a constant flow of Aether towards the surface of the Earth? If Aether flows from high to low concentration, equilibrium would have been achieved billions of years ago. There are hundreds more points i can make like this, but I have things to do over here in reality, you should make the trip over some time, I think you'd be delighted to find we actually have SCIENTIFIC theories that explain all of these things you so desperately wish to explain. I have a feeling you're going to delete this, which would just prove to me and everyone who's watching me type this that you can't argue against my logic and want me silenced so I can't poke more holes in your dreamreality. If you actually respond to this I'd be more than happy to actually discuss these things with you more in depth.


I will not apologise for deleting any of that.
And meet the sum total of every post I have deleted, barring one profanity laden ramble by a charmingly named 'dickswallower' right back when I started the site and had not created this section left.
You have no evidence of mass deletion because there is none. You are openly lying to everybody's faces. This is pathetic even by your standards.

Quote
You mean the assumptions of the model point to space travel being impossible,
No, i don't, I mean the model itself points to space travel being impossible. You have to lie to make an argument. You take the exact opposite of what I said and insist it is what I mean. The impossibility of space travel is a consequence of objects being torn apart due to the same force that is responsible for countless other phenomenon. A conclusion.

Quote
I also wouldn't say it is more complex than yours with aether which appears to be sentient such that it can continue to flow with no reason to do so, which knows to drag matter down to Earth, but not tear Earth apart as it continues to flow.
I'm just saying rather than space having that sentience, some other entity does.
Another outright lie, as with all your post.

This is obscenely dishonest. Are you that scared of people making up their own minds that you have to lie so dramatically? This isn't even a subtle bending of the truth or minor misunderstanding. This is mass, wilful misrepresentation. I am ashamed for you.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JackBlack on January 28, 2018, 01:38:41 PM
I deleted one post he made by circumventing his ban. That's all. It wasn't any content lost, as covered he only repeats himself.
As you have shown your dishonesty, I have no reason to take your word for it.

And no, you haven't. This is another blatant lie by you. I move posts to a quarantine rather than delete them
That is as good as deleting them.
You hide them from view.
If that is your best argument, it is one of pathetic semantics.

You are hiding posts from view and banning people. That is enough reason for me (and any rational person) to not use your site to debate your model.

You have no evidence of mass deletion because there is none. You are openly lying to everybody's faces. This is pathetic even by your standards.
I never said there was mass deletion. I just said there was deletion.
So it is just the same pathetic standards you often use of blatantly misrepresenting the claims of others to pretend they are wrong.

No, i don't, I mean the model itself points to space travel being impossible.
No it doesn't.
The model itself points to the conclusion that if the model is true, space travel is impossible. That doesn't mean space travel is impossible, nor does it mean the facts of your model points to it being impossible
The assumptions you make for your model is what indicates space travel is impossible.
They are not facts. They are assumptions.
Until you can prove your model is correct rather than alternatives, they remain as assumptions.
The mere fact that there is so much evidence for space travels indicates your model is wrong.

You are using your assumptions to dismiss evidence which contradicts your model/assumptions, which requires further assumptions to dismiss that evidence. That is not scientific or rational at all.

If you disagree with that being an additional assumption, then the same can be true for almost any model, where all the extra convoluted BS isn't an assumption of the model, it is just a conclusion of it. Does that sound rational to you? To make the model work you need extra convoluted BS to explain the observation, without it being an extra assumption?

You have to lie to make an argument. You take the exact opposite of what I said and insist it is what I mean.
There you go projecting again.

The impossibility of space travel is a consequence of objects being torn apart due to the same force that is responsible for countless other phenomenon. A conclusion.
A "conclusion" based upon assumptions you are yet to prove.
As such they are based upon assumptions not facts.
You said they were based upon facts, I am pointing out they are based upon assumptions.

Quote
I also wouldn't say it is more complex than yours with aether which appears to be sentient such that it can continue to flow with no reason to do so, which knows to drag matter down to Earth, but not tear Earth apart as it continues to flow.
I'm just saying rather than space having that sentience, some other entity does.
Another outright lie, as with all your post.
Nope, another rational analysis of your insane model which makes no sense and contradicts itself.

This is obscenely dishonest. Are you that scared of people making up their own minds that you have to lie so dramatically? This isn't even a subtle bending of the truth or minor misunderstanding. This is mass, wilful misrepresentation. I am ashamed for you.
Projecting again.
You are the one with the obscenely dishonest comments.
I'm not the one that has to lie so dramatically to try and dismiss any and all objections to my model.

You are the one blatantly misrepresenting things, like pretending your model is based upon a single assumption.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Space Cowgirl on January 28, 2018, 01:41:50 PM
JRowe, you don't owe them an explanation.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on January 28, 2018, 01:46:00 PM
Quote
You are hiding posts from view and banning people. That is enough reason for me (and any rational person) to not use your site to debate your model
I temp ban trolls because I will not let such behavior go unpunished. The hiding was not an excuse, it was to allow me to point out I have a full record of what I have deleted, and so of your dishonesty. Which of those posts do you think deserved to stay?
I would like to see this evidence you claimed to have, or was that another lie?

Quote
The model itself points to the conclusion that if the model is true, space travel is impossible. That doesn't mean space travel is impossible, nor does it mean the facts of your model points to it being impossible
The assumptions you make for your model is what indicates space travel is impossible.
They are not facts. They are assumptions.
Until you can prove your model is correct rather than alternatives, they remain as assumptions.
Circular bullshit. If it follows from the model, it is not an assumption.
Yes, the model follows from assumptions. All science does.

Quote
You are the one blatantly misrepresenting things, like pretending your model is based upon a single assumption.
I leave that to all readers to decide. Unlike you I am being open and honest.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JackBlack on January 28, 2018, 01:46:30 PM
JRowe, you don't owe them an explanation.
If she wants to be taken seriously she does.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Space Cowgirl on January 28, 2018, 01:48:52 PM
JRowe, you don't owe them an explanation.
If she wants to be taken seriously she does.

No, I doubt anyone cares if you take them seriously, because you take everything so super seriously. Stop harassing him about how he runs his forum. It has nothing to do with the topic.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JackBlack on January 28, 2018, 01:50:08 PM
I temp ban trolls because I will not let such behavior go unpunished. The hiding was not an excuse, it was to allow me to point out I have a full record of what I have deleted, and so of your dishonesty.
A full record which no one can see other than you. That is as good as deleting them. Again, you have shown yourself to be dishonest so I have no reason to trust you.

I would like to see this evidence you claimed to have, or was that another lie?
Evidence for you banning people and "deleting" posts or evidence for space travel?

Circular bullshit. If it follows from the model, it is not an assumption.
No, that would be your circular bullshit.
As your model is based upon an assumption, it follows from an assumption and thus is an assumption, not a fact.

I leave that to all readers to decide. Unlike you I am being open and honest.
Pure BS. You lie so much it isn't funny.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: DavidOrJohn on January 28, 2018, 01:50:35 PM
I have not lied once. You're attempt at providing an experiment did not satisfy the criteria I set out.

I have displayed no signs of arrogance, I have just refused to be dragged off topic.

I have displayed no childish traits, I have continued to address glaring issues with your model in the hope that you would address them or alter your model.

You can make my ban permanent, you have made it clear you won't actually debate your model, you are more interested in insults and straw men.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JackBlack on January 28, 2018, 01:50:57 PM
No, I doubt anyone cares if you take them seriously, because you take everything so super seriously. Stop harassing him about how he runs his forum. It has nothing to do with the topic.
As he seems to repeatedly bring up his forum and tell people to go there, i think it is relevant to the topic.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JackBlack on January 28, 2018, 02:00:39 PM
Wow, what has Jack Black done to illicit such hate.
Repeatedly refute his claims in a persistent manner rather than just giving up like many people would.
Including at times explaining in clear detail why his model is wrong.
Once he tried to go through his model step by step.
I gave him his assumption of space having concentration, and that it flows from high to low concentrations.
But he couldn't establish that this flow would remain rather than dissipating as the concentrations even out.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: DavidOrJohn on January 28, 2018, 02:04:25 PM
Wow, what has Jack Black done to illicit such hate.
Repeatedly refute his claims in a persistent manner rather than just giving up like many people would.
Including at times explaining in clear detail why his model is wrong.
Once he tried to go through his model step by step.
I gave him his assumption of space having concentration, and that it flows from high to low concentrations.
But he couldn't establish that this flow would remain rather than dissipating as the concentrations even out.

He locked my thread and then banned me when I questioned him about why space travel must be impossible.

He reckons meteors are proof that rockets could not survive the "whirlpools" as they have been measured to be a lot bigger before entering our atmosphere, but did not see how using space technology to measure was a contradiction.

He also said he had a long list of experiments proving his whirlpools exist, but he only actually linked to one which had the caveat it could not be carried out due to lack of resources.

He then responded to insults when I kept questioning his model before ultimately locking my thread, banning my account and blocking me on here.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JackBlack on January 28, 2018, 02:23:43 PM
He also said he had a long list of experiments proving his whirlpools exist, but he only actually linked to one which had the caveat it could not be carried out due to lack of resources.
I have seen 2 claims of experiments to show whirlpools exist.
One is impossible due to small amounts of atmosphere interfering and thus measuring the friction of the aether will be impossible.
The other requires detecting a step in gravity of an unknown amount.
Both are not capable of showing his model is wrong.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Lonegranger on January 28, 2018, 03:14:12 PM
I would like to ask a couple of straightforward questions and receive some straightforward answers in turn. Having been to several scientific conferences over the years, new ideas when presented at such events always have QA sessions where new ideas can be interrogated. People such as yourself should expect vigorous questioning. I have read through your ideas several times and have not found answers to the following questions. If you have a detailed knowledge of your subject are they should present you with little difficulty in forming suitable answers.

You claim in your DET idea that the sun is heated by frictional forces. You also claim the sun is composed of rock and stone of an unknown type.
My questions are, what are the nature of the forces that generate the friction and by what means have you determined them to exist.
By what observations and/ or experiments have you determined the composition of the sun.

Finally simple analysis of the sun’s light indicates a material make up that is at odds with your claims how do you explain this contradiction. In the same vein simple analysis of the sun using a ground based telescope shows a sun rather different from what you describe. How do your ideas accommodate these observations.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Slemon on January 28, 2018, 03:34:40 PM
Ooh, this thread's back!
I'm not a FEer, I just like learning the models because the kinds of arguments made by, well, looks like jackblack's posted in this thread so there's one example, tend to do more harm than good. Judging by AR you've got first hand knowledge of that; they just antagonise FEers. The end result's not a logical realisation, but rather further certainty REers are shills/dishonest/insert whatever word you want. RET can stand an honest debate, easy.

He reckons meteors are proof that rockets could not survive the "whirlpools" as they have been measured to be a lot bigger before entering our atmosphere, but did not see how using space technology to measure was a contradiction.
From a quick skim, I don't think he was talking about that. Looked more like he was referring to things like:

And others:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_meteor_air_bursts

Quote
He also said he had a long list of experiments proving his whirlpools exist, but he only actually linked to one which had the caveat it could not be carried out due to lack of resources.
According to DET, those whirlpools are responsible for the coriolis effect, the movements of stars, the light of the stars, gravity decreasing with altitude, the movement of the Sun... I imagine he'd refer to any tests of those things as experiments. So, anything from a sniper, to measurements of gravity variation with respect to height, to just looking up at the night sky.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: DavidOrJohn on January 28, 2018, 03:43:24 PM
Ooh, this thread's back!
I'm not a FEer, I just like learning the models because the kinds of arguments made by, well, looks like jackblack's posted in this thread so there's one example, tend to do more harm than good. Judging by AR you've got first hand knowledge of that; they just antagonise FEers. The end result's not a logical realisation, but rather further certainty REers are shills/dishonest/insert whatever word you want. RET can stand an honest debate, easy.

He reckons meteors are proof that rockets could not survive the "whirlpools" as they have been measured to be a lot bigger before entering our atmosphere, but did not see how using space technology to measure was a contradiction.
From a quick skim, I don't think he was talking about that. Looked more like he was referring to things like:

And others:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_meteor_air_bursts

Quote
He also said he had a long list of experiments proving his whirlpools exist, but he only actually linked to one which had the caveat it could not be carried out due to lack of resources.
According to DET, those whirlpools are responsible for the coriolis effect, the movements of stars, the light of the stars, gravity decreasing with altitude, the movement of the Sun... I imagine he'd refer to any tests of those things as experiments. So, anything from a sniper, to measurements of gravity variation with respect to height, to just looking up at the night sky.

Well one of his biggest conclusions is the impossible nature of space travel due to nothing being able to survive transition between whirlpools at higher altitudes. His proof of this is that meteors break up and due not survive these transitions. But my argument back is how does he know the meteors broke up, how does he know that what we label an air bust is not actually multiple smaller meteors that have survived the transitions themselves.

He argues any observations in line with his whirlpools is proof of the whirlpools, but that is wholly inadequate. What I asked for was an experiment determine without refute that these whirlpools exist. The closest he came was an experiment amount changes in refraction, but then said he can't resource such an experiment.

His problem was, he was unable to answer my questions and rather than seek answers of adjustments to his model, he tried taking me off track with insults, I just wasn't interested in a name calling session and so repeatedly brought him back to the debate. This caused him to ban me.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Slemon on January 28, 2018, 04:04:04 PM
Well one of his biggest conclusions is the impossible nature of space travel due to nothing being able to survive transition between whirlpools at higher altitudes. His proof of this is that meteors break up and due not survive these transitions. But my argument back is how does he know the meteors broke up, how does he know that what we label an air bust is not actually multiple smaller meteors that have survived the transitions themselves.
Logic, likelihood, the chance of multiple smaller rocks not only hitting the atmosphere at the same moment, but in the same basic area enough to cause only one burst, and for that matter to cause a big enough burst... It just doesn't make sense otherwise, irrespective of Earth shape.

Quote
He argues any observations in line with his whirlpools is proof of the whirlpools, but that is wholly inadequate. What I asked for was an experiment determine without refute that these whirlpools exist. The closest he came was an experiment amount changes in refraction, but then said he can't resource such an experiment.
That's impossible. For pretty much anything. Anything should, theoretically, be open to refutation. There's always the possibility of another explanation, something being missed. There'll be a dozen ways to explain anything, science just picks the best. Even his cliche refraction experiment could be used to justify other points of view if it worked.
One of the cliche examples of this is gravity vs 'intelligent falling,' God's hand pushing every object down to Earth, If you construct that hypothesis well enough, there's nothing you can propose to experimentally verify gravity over it. That doesn't make gravity less true.

Quote
His problem was, he was unable to answer my questions and rather than seek answers of adjustments to his model, he tried taking me off track with insults, I just wasn't interested in a name calling session and so repeatedly brought him back to the debate. This caused him to ban me.
I'm not interested in getting in the middle of a grudge match, I'm just giving what I know about JRowe's model.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: DavidOrJohn on January 28, 2018, 04:11:37 PM
Well one of his biggest conclusions is the impossible nature of space travel due to nothing being able to survive transition between whirlpools at higher altitudes. His proof of this is that meteors break up and due not survive these transitions. But my argument back is how does he know the meteors broke up, how does he know that what we label an air bust is not actually multiple smaller meteors that have survived the transitions themselves.
Logic, likelihood, the chance of multiple smaller rocks not only hitting the atmosphere at the same moment, but in the same basic area enough to cause only one burst, and for that matter to cause a big enough burst... It just doesn't make sense otherwise, irrespective of Earth shape.

Quote
He argues any observations in line with his whirlpools is proof of the whirlpools, but that is wholly inadequate. What I asked for was an experiment determine without refute that these whirlpools exist. The closest he came was an experiment amount changes in refraction, but then said he can't resource such an experiment.
That's impossible. For pretty much anything. Anything should, theoretically, be open to refutation. There's always the possibility of another explanation, something being missed. There'll be a dozen ways to explain anything, science just picks the best. Even his cliche refraction experiment could be used to justify other points of view if it worked.
One of the cliche examples of this is gravity vs 'intelligent falling,' God's hand pushing every object down to Earth, If you construct that hypothesis well enough, there's nothing you can propose to experimentally verify gravity over it. That doesn't make gravity less true.

Quote
His problem was, he was unable to answer my questions and rather than seek answers of adjustments to his model, he tried taking me off track with insults, I just wasn't interested in a name calling session and so repeatedly brought him back to the debate. This caused him to ban me.
I'm not interested in getting in the middle of a grudge match, I'm just giving what I know about JRowe's model.

Logic doesn't argue one big rock over many little rocks and likelihood only comes into play if we know the exact number of the rocks in the first place. We have scientifically proven that these are, of course, meteors that break up, but the methods to prove that are not methods allowable under his theory.

The problem is if I'm to abandon the status quo and take belief in his theory I need convincing about these whirlpools. Otherwise we could just argue the giant spaghetti monster does everything these whirlpools do.

There's no grudge on my side, I've not insulted him a single time. Judging by the angry rant forum though that hasn't extended in both directions.

The thing I don't get is, he shouldn't be interested in defending his theory, he should be interested in seeking the truth and were flaws are highlighted in his model that should take him closer towards the truth he seeks, not give him a barrier to it. We all spend our lives believing things we're told. If someone cares enough to question those tales then they should be intellectually honest with their conclusions. What is his end goal, convincing people of his theory or finding out the true nature of our planet?
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Slemon on January 28, 2018, 04:17:07 PM
Logic doesn't argue one big rock over many little rocks and likelihood only comes into play if we know the exact number of the rocks in the first place. We have scientifically proven that these are, of course, meteors that break up, but the methods to prove that are not methods allowable under his theory.
I don't really know what you're trying to say. When you have one sudden event, it is logically more likely to be the result of one cause rather than multiple exceptionally well-timed causes. That's true no matter what you're talking about, whether we're talking meteors or just general loud booms.

Quote
The problem is if I'm to abandon the status quo and take belief in his theory I need convincing about these whirlpools. Otherwise we could just argue the giant spaghetti monster does everything these whirlpools do.
Sure, you just have to have good standards for what'd convince you.

Quote
There's no grudge on my side, I've not insulted him a single time. Judging by the angry rant forum though that hasn't extended in both directions.
JRowe does that when he gets riled up. But again, not looking to get in the middle of it. I said grudge match because you seem a little... keen to claim victory. No offence intended, it just comes across as a bit uncomfortable. I'm not looking to debate whether you or JRowe was in the right, just explain what I know of his model.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: DavidOrJohn on January 28, 2018, 04:27:13 PM
Logic doesn't argue one big rock over many little rocks and likelihood only comes into play if we know the exact number of the rocks in the first place. We have scientifically proven that these are, of course, meteors that break up, but the methods to prove that are not methods allowable under his theory.
I don't really know what you're trying to say. When you have one sudden event, it is logically more likely to be the result of one cause rather than multiple exceptionally well-timed causes. That's true no matter what you're talking about, whether we're talking meteors or just general loud booms.

Quote
The problem is if I'm to abandon the status quo and take belief in his theory I need convincing about these whirlpools. Otherwise we could just argue the giant spaghetti monster does everything these whirlpools do.
Sure, you just have to have good standards for what'd convince you.

Quote
There's no grudge on my side, I've not insulted him a single time. Judging by the angry rant forum though that hasn't extended in both directions.
JRowe does that when he gets riled up. But again, not looking to get in the middle of it. I said grudge match because you seem a little... keen to claim victory. No offence intended, it just comes across as a bit uncomfortable. I'm not looking to debate whether you or JRowe was in the right, just explain what I know of his model.

It's a weak answer in my opinion. What I'm trying to say is how do we know these whirlpools will destroy anything passing through them.

Aye good standards should always be demanded.

I absolutely take no offence. I've no qualms with the way I've handled myself. I disagree with aspects of the model and I've been clear about that, I've yet to be convinced otherwise but time will tell.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Slemon on January 28, 2018, 04:44:16 PM
It's a weak answer in my opinion. What I'm trying to say is how do we know these whirlpools will destroy anything passing through them.

Aye good standards should always be demanded.

I absolutely take no offence. I've no qualms with the way I've handled myself. I disagree with aspects of the model and I've been clear about that, I've yet to be convinced otherwise but time will tell.
Well those are the answers, strength or weakness is up to you.
Though I suppose the other answer is just "Well that's the model." If it's a possible conclusion from the premises, take it if it works. Rejecting something as impossible because one potential end result is, even if others are fine, doesn't really make sense.
Fair enough, though just be aware of how it can come across.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: DavidOrJohn on January 28, 2018, 04:53:06 PM
It's a weak answer in my opinion. What I'm trying to say is how do we know these whirlpools will destroy anything passing through them.

Aye good standards should always be demanded.

I absolutely take no offence. I've no qualms with the way I've handled myself. I disagree with aspects of the model and I've been clear about that, I've yet to be convinced otherwise but time will tell.
Well those are the answers, strength or weakness is up to you.
Though I suppose the other answer is just "Well that's the model." If it's a possible conclusion from the premises, take it if it works. Rejecting something as impossible because one potential end result is, even if others are fine, doesn't really make sense.
Fair enough, though just be aware of how it can come across.
.

Of course it is up to me, hence my further probing of said issues. It's just a shame my further questions were not met with further answers.

I never drew that line in the sand. It was made quite clear that space travel and det were mutually exclusive. Only one can be true in the form the model was presented.

When discussing things on line there can always be misconstrued opinions on how something comes across. I see you had to begin this by saying you are not a FE person. That tells me you have been misconstrued as such in the past. As I said, I'm proud of my conduct.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: totallackey on January 28, 2018, 05:08:25 PM
We have yet to experience anything break up that comes close to the mass nor durability of a space shuttle...I'm not a troll, I was looking for answers, I still am. It just seems you aren't prepared to answer them.
You are looking for answers and post the first statement...?

Should your profile name be changed to "ChallengerOrColumbia"?
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: DavidOrJohn on January 28, 2018, 10:02:27 PM
We have yet to experience anything break up that comes close to the mass nor durability of a space shuttle...I'm not a troll, I was looking for answers, I still am. It just seems you aren't prepared to answer them.
You are looking for answers and post the first statement...?

Should your profile name be changed to "ChallengerOrColumbia"?

Yes it was his reason for rockets being unable to traverse whirlpools.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JackBlack on January 29, 2018, 02:40:50 AM
looks like jackblack's posted in this thread so there's one example, tend to do more harm than good.
And there you go jumping in with the insults.
Why do you think rational arguments by people that don't accept dismissal do more harm than good?

they just antagonise FEers.
Sure, if by antagonise you mean continually call them out on their lies and baseless claims.

The end result's not a logical realisation, but rather further certainty REers are shills/dishonest/insert whatever word you want. RET can stand an honest debate, easy.
No, the end result is a logical realisation that FEers cannot provide rational arguments.

From a quick skim, I don't think he was talking about that. Looked more like he was referring to things like:
And others:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_meteor_air_bursts
You mean when they blow up quite far into the atmosphere (which would require them to have already gone through several transitions), rather than breaking up due to some magic whirlpool transition?
If this was going to be evidence, they would all occur at the height of some transition and they would be unable to pass through the allegedly greater transitions higher up.

According to DET, those whirlpools are responsible for the coriolis effect, the movements of stars, the light of the stars, gravity decreasing with altitude, the movement of the Sun... I imagine he'd refer to any tests of those things as experiments. So, anything from a sniper, to measurements of gravity variation with respect to height, to just looking up at the night sky.
Nope, none of them establish DET over the much simpler alternative.
The only thing which comes close are claims on gravity variation with height which they claim should be stepped, while being unable to provide a step height (with justification).

Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JackBlack on January 29, 2018, 02:44:47 AM
Well one of his biggest conclusions is the impossible nature of space travel due to nothing being able to survive transition between whirlpools at higher altitudes. His proof of this is that meteors break up and due not survive these transitions. But my argument back is how does he know the meteors broke up, how does he know that what we label an air bust is not actually multiple smaller meteors that have survived the transitions themselves.
Because of observations of an object (or something acting as a single object) travelling through the atmosphere before exploding.
That is quite conclusive evidence that there is an object coming down and exploding in the atmosphere.
The issue with this in regards to DET is how far it got through the atmosphere before exploding.

It's a weak answer in my opinion. What I'm trying to say is how do we know these whirlpools will destroy anything passing through them.
It is not the whirlpool itself, it is the transition between the whirlpools where you allegedly go from one accelerating you at some rate to another accelerating you at a different rate.
If the change in acceleration is great enough it overcomes the mechanical strength of the meteor resulting in it breaking apart.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Lonegranger on February 01, 2018, 03:15:00 PM
Ok....where did all your ideas on DE come from? Simple question.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on February 01, 2018, 03:18:11 PM
Ok....where did all your ideas on DE come from? Simple question.
Observation of the world, consideration of special pleading made in mainstream science with respect to the nature of space.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: DavidOrJohn on February 01, 2018, 10:04:17 PM
Ultimately its a fun drawing but it just didn't stand up to scrutiny.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Lonegranger on February 02, 2018, 12:26:36 AM
Ok....where did all your ideas on DE come from? Simple question.
Observation of the world, consideration of special pleading made in mainstream science with respect to the nature of space.

What observation of the stars did you make for you to draw your conclusions? bearing in mind that others who have observed them using sophisticated equipment don’t agree with you. The conclusions one tends to draw is that you have got it all wrong, especially the nature of the Sun and other stairs, which you maintain are composed of rock and stone.
I fail to see how simple visual observation of the stars, not including the sun, can give any indication as to their composition other than by doing an analysis of their visible light and other wavelengths of the electromagnetic spectrum. If this is done then it shows they are not composed from rock and stone as you maintain.
How can you explain this glaring problem with your idea? And what methods did you employ to arrive at your rock and stone conclusions?

Can you also explain the details of the special pleading to which you are referring?
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JackBlack on February 02, 2018, 01:59:58 AM
Ok....where did all your ideas on DE come from? Simple question.
Observation of the world, consideration of special pleading made in mainstream science with respect to the nature of space.
No observation of the world leads to your nonsense as there are no observations which indicate your model over the currently accepted model.
You are also yet to provide any special pleading made in mainsteam science regarding space.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on February 02, 2018, 10:14:49 AM
Quote
Can you also explain the details of the special pleading to which you are referring?
It is apparently the one entity in all reality without a concept of concentration.

Models are not meant to be taken individually. No one individual aspect is meant to stand alone. I find the DE answer for stars satisfactory, and I have already answered your question as to composition in the relevant thread. DET as a whole, however, is believe because of the sum of all observations.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Lonegranger on February 02, 2018, 10:36:23 AM
Quote
Can you also explain the details of the special pleading to which you are referring?
It is apparently the one entity in all reality without a concept of concentration.

Models are not meant to be taken individually. No one individual aspect is meant to stand alone. I find the DE answer for stars satisfactory, and I have already answered your question as to composition in the relevant thread. DET as a whole, however, is believe because of the sum of all observations.

Can you please provide a link to your answer. I get the feeling you are avoiding addressing my honest questions.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on February 02, 2018, 10:37:44 AM
Quote
Can you also explain the details of the special pleading to which you are referring?
It is apparently the one entity in all reality without a concept of concentration.

Models are not meant to be taken individually. No one individual aspect is meant to stand alone. I find the DE answer for stars satisfactory, and I have already answered your question as to composition in the relevant thread. DET as a whole, however, is believe because of the sum of all observations.

Can you please provide a link to your answer. I get the feeling you are avoiding addressing my honest questions.
You made a thread about the topic. I suggest you start there.
I get the feeling you're blatantly wasting time. Spamming the same question in multiple threads, ignoring my presence in the thread where that was the entire topic... Just as I remember you used to love spamming a repeatedly explicitly answered question.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Lonegranger on February 02, 2018, 10:53:31 AM
Quote
Can you also explain the details of the special pleading to which you are referring?
It is apparently the one entity in all reality without a concept of concentration.

Models are not meant to be taken individually. No one individual aspect is meant to stand alone. I find the DE answer for stars satisfactory, and I have already answered your question as to composition in the relevant thread. DET as a whole, however, is believe because of the sum of all observations.

Can you please provide a link to your answer. I get the feeling you are avoiding addressing my honest questions.
You made a thread about the topic. I suggest you start there.
I get the feeling you're blatantly wasting time. Spamming the same question in multiple threads, ignoring my presence in the thread where that was the entire topic... Just as I remember you used to love spamming a repeatedly explicitly answered question.

Your basically not a very nice person.
According to you anyone who may disagree with you is a liar, and anyone who repeatedly asks an honest question because they never receive an honest answer is a spammer!
Im Not quite sure where that leaves you, perhaps a dishonest charleten.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Lonegranger on February 02, 2018, 11:00:04 AM
What was the point of starting this thread, when you never provide a straight answer to a straight question!
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JackBlack on February 02, 2018, 11:51:58 AM
Quote
Can you also explain the details of the special pleading to which you are referring?
It is apparently the one entity in all reality without a concept of concentration.
It isn't an entity.
And it isn't the only thing.
Concentration refers to the amount of matter per unit space.
It is what is used to measure the concentration.
You could invert it and have a measure of how much space there is per unit mass or the like.

That is not special pleading.
You can also say it has a concentration, where its concentration is 1.
There is 1 unit of space per unit space.

Now do you have any actual instances of special pleading about space by the mainstream?

Models are not meant to be taken individually. No one individual aspect is meant to stand alone. I find the DE answer for stars satisfactory, and I have already answered your question as to composition in the relevant thread. DET as a whole, however, is believe because of the sum of all observations.
So far the closest I recall seeing you answer the question on composition is by pleading ignorance and claiming we can't know what they are made of, ignoring all the evidence which indicates what stars are made of.
That is not answering it.

You are also yet to answer several of my questions regarding your model (in an honest way which addresses the issues), and I still have ones I haven't gotten around to asking because we are yet to even get to that point of an explanation in your model.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Lonegranger on February 02, 2018, 03:21:37 PM
More like “ask me any question you like, but any tricky ones that will show my ideas up for the lies they are I will give a total bodyswerve and call you a spammer or liar to deflect from my total inability to be honest”.  :-/
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: DavidOrJohn on February 02, 2018, 11:18:59 PM
DET is holier than the Bible at the point.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Lonegranger on February 03, 2018, 02:01:50 AM
DET is holier than the Bible at the point.

Explain please?
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JackBlack on February 03, 2018, 02:17:30 AM
DET is holier than the Bible at the point.

Explain please?
Well there are lots of holes in it.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Lonegranger on February 03, 2018, 03:55:18 AM
DET is holier than the Bible at the point.

Explain please?
Well there are lots of holes in it.

Ah! A bit slow today!
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on February 03, 2018, 10:53:47 AM
Quote
Your basically not a very nice person.
According to you anyone who may disagree with you is a liar, and anyone who repeatedly asks an honest question because they never receive an honest answer is a spammer!
I will not be nice to trolls.
I welcome disagreement and discussion. But when I answer you, and you completely ignore the existence of that answer no matter how many times it is pointed out to you, you are a liar. When you spam the exact same question over multiple threads, you are a spammer and you make it very fucking clear you're not trying to debate.
You've been answered. Your inability to cope with that is your problem, not mine.

And it isn't the only thing.
Concentration refers to the amount of matter per unit space.
It is what is used to measure the concentration.
You could invert it and have a measure of how much space there is per unit mass or the like.
Again, you know nothing. Space has properties, it is affected by movement at high speeds for example. This is well understood.
A concentration simply applies to how much of something there is. yes, that's a concentration of matter, but you can also have a concentration of heat which is just a matter of how much heat exists.
How much space exists can be tricky to directly observe, but the concept is sound.

Not that you care, when you will openly bullshit like this.

Quote
You are also yet to answer several of my questions regarding your model (in an honest way which addresses the issues), and I still have ones I haven't gotten around to asking because we are yet to even get to that point of an explanation in your model.
I tried. You refuse to accept any answer that isn't RET. And, like lonegranger, you will outright lie because no one is ever going to call out a fucking round earther on their bullshit.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JackBlack on February 03, 2018, 01:56:31 PM
I will not be nice to trolls.
Is that why you are so mean to yourself?

But when I answer you
We can get to that when you actually start providing answers rather than deflecting and/or ignoring what people have said and just repeat the same refuted BS.

When you spam the exact same question over multiple threads, you are a spammer and you make it very fucking clear you're not trying to debate.
No. You are yet to answer these questions. We are not spammers for continually bringing up questions you have no answer to. Especially when you refuse to admit such and say it is a baseless assumption of your model or your model is unable to explain this phenomena.
You continually ignoring these questions show you are not here to debate.

Again, you know nothing.
And there you go with the insults yet again.
How about you try a rational discussion for once?

A concentration simply applies to how much of something there is.
No it doesn't.
How much of something there is is the amount. Concentration is how much there is in a given unit of space.
This can be a linear density, an area density or a volume density.
As such, space not having a concentration which is discussed is not special pleading.
By definition, each unit of space contains 1 unit of space.

This is not a problem with space, it is merely how concentration is defined.

but you can also have a concentration of heat which is just a matter of how much heat exists.
Again, no it is not. It would be flux which is a measure of the flow of thermal energy between objects, and it isn't just the raw amount, it is how much per unit space.

How much space exists can be tricky to directly observe, but the concept is sound.
Meanwhile the concentration of space is very easy, it is 1.

Not that you care, when you will openly bullshit like this.
I'm not the one bullshitting here.

I tried. You refuse to accept any answer that isn't RET.
No, you tried and failed to provide any rational justification or refutation.
I don't reject your answers because they aren't RET.
I reject them because they are unjustified.
You are baselessly magic cycling space with no justification at all, and with no rational refutation of the objections to those claims.
Again, there are numerous problems we can't get to because we can't get past this point as you can neither justify it nor admit it is an assumption of your model.

And, like lonegranger, you will outright lie because no one is ever going to call out a fucking round earther on their bullshit.
And there you go lying yet again.
Plenty of people will call out people on their BS. Regardless of if they are REs and regardless of if they are claiming Earth is round.
So far I see more pack mentality from the FEers.
I have already pointed out BS from REers here.

I don't need to lie to show the problems with your model, so why would I?

Meanwhile, you do need to lie to pretend your model works and ignore the objections to it.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on February 03, 2018, 02:06:02 PM

Quote
I don't need to lie to show the problems with your model, so why would I?
THEN WHY ARE YOU YOU FUCKING MORON?!
YOU OUTRIGHT IGNORE EVERY FUCKING WORD I SAY
AND THEN LIE
YOU JUST FUCKIG LIE
I AM SICK  OF YOIU
JUST
FUCK
OFF
NO ONE WANTS YOUR BULLSHIT HERE
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JackBlack on February 03, 2018, 02:26:58 PM
Quote
I don't need to lie to show the problems with your model, so why would I?
THEN WHY ARE YOU
I'm not the one lying here.
I am the one asking questions you are yet to provide a rational answer to.

If you think you have, feel free to provide the location where you have explained how your magic cycling aether began cycling and continued to cycle while being able to extract energy from this cycling process without any loss of the cycling.
With it being able to accelerate instantly, due to the lack of mass and inertia, what keeps it going?
Why doesn't it stop or instantly accelerate to wipe out all the concentration gradients?

This is the second step in your model and you can't even rationally defend it.


I'm not going to leave just because you want me to.
If you don't like me objecting to your BS, then stop spouting it.
I will stop objecting to it when you either stop spouting it or when you can honestly, and rationally defend it.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on February 03, 2018, 02:37:47 PM
I am sick of repeating myself. It is nothing but a tremendous fucking waste of time talking to you.

You'll be back five minutes later spamming the exact same question with the same holier-than-thou pompous bullshit and I want no part of it.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JackBlack on February 03, 2018, 02:49:54 PM
I am sick of repeating myself. It is nothing but a tremendous fucking waste of time talking to you.
Then stop repeating the same refuted BS and actually answer the question in an honest, rational manner.

Do you think you are the only one sick of repeating themselves?
Do you think no one else is getting sick of repeating the same questions/arguments which you continually refuse to answer/address?
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on February 03, 2018, 02:59:20 PM
Can a mod lock this thread? It's clearly served it's purpose and been overrun by liars.
As ever I will always answer questions, and have a forum with a section devoted to doing so. If jackblack's trivialities genuinely seem convincing to you, and if you are not satisfied with the answers he ignored, please feel free to visit and ask.

For now, I will no longer humor his dishonesty.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JackBlack on February 03, 2018, 03:12:11 PM
Can a mod lock this thread? It's clearly served it's purpose and been overrun by liars.
As ever I will always answer questions, and have a forum with a section devoted to doing so. If jackblack's trivialities genuinely seem convincing to you, and if you are not satisfied with the answers he ignored, please feel free to visit and ask.

For now, I will no longer humor his dishonesty.
You are the dishonest one here, not me.
I have provided several objections with your model which you have been unable to refute. You have been completely unable to rationally defend your model.
You have no justification for your magic cycling aether.

You have no interest in answering honest rational questions regarding your model which show it to be flawed.
You only seem to want to answer questions which aren't problems for your model. As soon as there is a major flaw, you refuse to provide an honest, rational answer.

So I will ask again:
Why does your magic aether continue to cycle?
Why doesn't it smooth itself out?
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Lonegranger on February 03, 2018, 03:12:42 PM
Quote
Your basically not a very nice person.
According to you anyone who may disagree with you is a liar, and anyone who repeatedly asks an honest question because they never receive an honest answer is a spammer!
I will not be nice to trolls.
I welcome disagreement and discussion. But when I answer you, and you completely ignore the existence of that answer no matter how many times it is pointed out to you, you are a liar. When you spam the exact same question over multiple threads, you are a spammer and you make it very fucking clear you're not trying to debate.
You've been answered. Your inability to cope with that is your problem, not mine.

And it isn't the only thing.
Concentration refers to the amount of matter per unit space.
It is what is used to measure the concentration.
You could invert it and have a measure of how much space there is per unit mass or the like.
Again, you know nothing. Space has properties, it is affected by movement at high speeds for example. This is well understood.
A concentration simply applies to how much of something there is. yes, that's a concentration of matter, but you can also have a concentration of heat which is just a matter of how much heat exists.
How much space exists can be tricky to directly observe, but the concept is sound.

Not that you care, when you will openly bullshit like this.

Quote
You are also yet to answer several of my questions regarding your model (in an honest way which addresses the issues), and I still have ones I haven't gotten around to asking because we are yet to even get to that point of an explanation in your model.
I tried. You refuse to accept any answer that isn't RET. And, like lonegranger, you will outright lie because no one is ever going to call out a fucking round earther on their bullshit.

You welcome nothing that attempts to question your beliefs.
You can of course prove me wrong by posting a link to where you provided answers to my questions.To remind you of the questions.

What observations of the stars did you make to ascertain their composition?
How did you make these observations?
Where will we find links to data that backs up and confirms your observations?
How do you explain away spectral observations that disagree with your claims?

All you have to do to prove me wrong is to provide the links or the answers. Failure to do this will allow others to draw their own conclusions about you and your ideas.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: DavidOrJohn on February 04, 2018, 01:48:17 AM
JRowe is not being honest there.

I recently made 3 threads on his forum questioning his model and he deleted them and then banned me for doing so.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Lonegranger on February 04, 2018, 01:52:56 AM
JRowe is not being honest there.

I recently made 3 threads on his forum questioning his model and he deleted them and then banned me for doing so.

I wonder why he did that?
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on February 04, 2018, 07:36:53 AM
JRowe is not being honest there.

I recently made 3 threads on his forum questioning his model and he deleted them and then banned me for doing so.

I see you still feel the need to lie.
You were banned for repeatedly ignoring my posts and wasting time. i have no tolerance for trolls. You then circumvented this ban multiple times, despite knowing the consequences, and those posts you made while breaking the rules were deleted.

You are a troll and I have no sympathy for you.

Anyone that will engage in honest discussion rather than lying to my face is always welcome.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Lonegranger on February 04, 2018, 07:47:36 AM
JRowe is not being honest there.

I recently made 3 threads on his forum questioning his model and he deleted them and then banned me for doing so.

I see you still feel the need to lie.
You were banned for repeatedly ignoring my posts and wasting time. i have no tolerance for trolls. You then circumvented this ban multiple times, despite knowing the consequences, and those posts you made while breaking the rules were deleted.

You are a troll and I have no sympathy for you.

Anyone that will engage in honest discussion rather than lying to my face is always welcome.

Have you got to grips with the truth about Spectroscopy yet?
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on February 04, 2018, 07:49:07 AM
JRowe is not being honest there.

I recently made 3 threads on his forum questioning his model and he deleted them and then banned me for doing so.

I see you still feel the need to lie.
You were banned for repeatedly ignoring my posts and wasting time. i have no tolerance for trolls. You then circumvented this ban multiple times, despite knowing the consequences, and those posts you made while breaking the rules were deleted.

You are a troll and I have no sympathy for you.

Anyone that will engage in honest discussion rather than lying to my face is always welcome.

Have you got to grips with the truth about Spectroscopy yet?

I know the truth about it. Made a whole thread on the topic that's got you people running scared and evading. Do you, or are you just going to keep trolling?
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: Lonegranger on February 04, 2018, 07:58:16 AM
JRowe is not being honest there.

I recently made 3 threads on his forum questioning his model and he deleted them and then banned me for doing so.

I see you still feel the need to lie.
You were banned for repeatedly ignoring my posts and wasting time. i have no tolerance for trolls. You then circumvented this ban multiple times, despite knowing the consequences, and those posts you made while breaking the rules were deleted.

You are a troll and I have no sympathy for you.

Anyone that will engage in honest discussion rather than lying to my face is always welcome.

Have you got to grips with the truth about Spectroscopy yet?

I know the truth about it. Made a whole thread on the topic that's got you people running scared and evading. Do you, or are you just going to keep trolling?

Where is your research on this, where have you published it? Has it been corroborated by others or is it some stuff you just made up.

Please explain how you came to your conclusions.
Title: Re: ask me about dual earth theory
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on February 04, 2018, 08:08:38 AM
You know full well where the evidence section is, your persistent need to ignore it is why this thread has become a waste of time.

It doesn't matter how many questions I answer, because you aren't interested in the answers.