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The Etruscan Language

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FlatAssembler

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The Etruscan Language
« on: March 16, 2021, 01:03:00 PM »
What do you guys here think, is "𐌓𐌀𐌔𐌄𐌍𐌀𐌋 𐌖𐌓𐌔𐌌𐌉𐌍𐌉 𐌋𐌖𐌐𐌖𐌂𐌄 𐌇𐌀𐌍𐌕𐌉 𐌆𐌀𐌈𐌓𐌖𐌌 𐌖𐌏𐌛 𐌀𐌖𐌉𐌋𐌀𐌓𐌉 𐌍𐌀𐌍𐌀𐌕𐌍𐌀𐌌 𐌉𐌍𐌂 𐌇𐌀𐌌𐌈𐌉𐌍" (transliterated: "Rasenal ursmini lupuce hanti zaθrum vor avilari nanatnam inc hamθin.") good Etruscan for "The Etruscan language died two thousand (literally, twenty hundreds) years ago and nobody understands it."? Let me explain how I arrived at that translation.

𐌓𐌀𐌔𐌄𐌍𐌀𐌋 - "Rasena" means "Etruscan", as in, "Etruscan person", so, if you add the genitive suffix "-l" to it, so that it reads "Rasenal", it could probably mean "Etruscan" as an adjective.

𐌖𐌓𐌔𐌌𐌉𐌍𐌉 - "Ursmini" means "speech" or "sermon", whence Latin "sermo". I suppose it can be used to mean "language".

𐌋𐌖𐌐𐌖𐌂𐌄 - "Lupu" means "to die", and "-ke" is the past tense marker, so "lupuke" would mean "died".

𐌇𐌀𐌍𐌕𐌉 - "hanti", apparently an Indo-European loanword, meant "before". I suppose it could also be used to mean "ago", but I am not sure.

𐌆𐌀𐌈𐌓𐌖𐌌 𐌖𐌏𐌛 - Now, Etruscan, as far as I know, had no word meaning "thousand". However, we know from the gloss that "vorsum" means "centum pedes" (a hundred feet) that "vor" meant "hundred", and we know that "zathrum" meant "twenty", so I guess "zathrum vor" would be a proper way of saying "two thousand".

𐌀𐌖𐌉𐌋𐌀𐌓𐌉 - "avilari", I suppose that would be the proper locative plural of "avil" (year).

𐌍𐌀𐌍𐌀𐌕𐌍𐌀𐌌 - "nana-tnam", "nana" meaning "nobody" and "tnam" being the suffix corresponding to Latin "-que".

𐌉𐌍𐌂 - "inc", a pronoun meaning "it".

𐌇𐌀𐌌𐌈𐌉𐌍 - "hamthin" means "to understand".

I have put "inc" before "hamthin" because I know Etruscan was an SOV-language, like Latin.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2022, 01:02:58 AM by FlatAssembler »
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JimmyTheCrab

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Re: The Etruscan Language
« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2021, 03:34:30 PM »
You posting this crap here has it was ignored on Reddit?
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Wolvaccine

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Re: The Etruscan Language
« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2021, 01:13:06 AM »


That's what I think
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boydster

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Re: The Etruscan Language
« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2021, 06:20:05 AM »
I don't think you are saying it correctly.
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GlaringEye

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Re: The Etruscan Language
« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2021, 08:44:17 AM »
Too many "I suppose" for it to be correct.
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Jamie

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Re: The Etruscan Language
« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2021, 09:56:32 AM »
Why do you only speak dead languages?
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JimmyTheCrab

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Re: The Etruscan Language
« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2021, 10:04:10 AM »
Quote from: Jamie on March 17, 2021, 09:56:32 AM
Why do you only speak dead languages?
Not just dead, but largely rotted away in this case.  His translation fits into the "making shit up" category or being more generous "a bit of fun".
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Stash

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Re: The Etruscan Language
« Reply #7 on: March 17, 2021, 10:52:42 AM »
Quote from: FlatAssembler on March 16, 2021, 01:03:00 PM
What do you guys here think...

Apparently it's garbage.

TL;DR:
"Altogether, I’m counting one mistake (lupu), one word I couldn’t verify (uor), an unlikely construction (lack of something for ago), and two vagaries (correct plural form avilar? correct adjective for “Etruscan”?). I’d say this goes to show that we cannot construct any old sentence from an incompletely attested and incompletely understood language."

Full explanation: https://www.quora.com/Is-%F0%90%8C%93%F0%90%8C%80%F0%90%8C%94%F0%90%8C%84%F0%90%8C%8D%F0%90%8C%80-%F0%90%8C%8B%F0%90%8C%96%F0%90%8C%90%F0%90%8C%96-%F0%90%8C%86%F0%90%8C%80%F0%90%8C%88%F0%90%8C%93%F0%90%8C%96%F0%90%8C%8C
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boydster

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Re: The Etruscan Language
« Reply #8 on: March 17, 2021, 11:13:18 AM »
OMG one of the replies has me cracking up
Quote
You’ve got letters designed to be written right to left written left to right. That's your first problem.

And it looks like that answer came 4 days before this thread!
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Stash

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Re: The Etruscan Language
« Reply #9 on: March 17, 2021, 11:17:54 AM »
Quote from: boydster on March 17, 2021, 11:13:18 AM
OMG one of the replies has me cracking up
Quote
You’ve got letters designed to be written right to left written left to right. That's your first problem.

And it looks like that answer came 4 days before this thread!

.ynnuf repuS .oot eno taht was I
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FlatAssembler

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Re: The Etruscan Language
« Reply #10 on: March 17, 2021, 11:34:00 AM »
Quote from: JimmyTheCrab on March 16, 2021, 03:34:30 PM
You posting this crap here has it was ignored on Reddit?
I posted it on a few Internet forums.
On StackExchange, I got a few upvotes, but no answer, or even a comment: https://latin.stackexchange.com/questions/15564/how-would-you-say-the-etruscan-language-died-two-thousand-years-ago-and-nobody
I suppose that is because people are on those forums are interested in mainstream linguistics, and people interested in mainstream linguistics do not tend to have strong opinions about the Etruscan language. But here, I know some people are interested in alternative linguistics, such as @wise. I suppose [mention]wise[/mention] has some ideas about Etruscan.
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FlatAssembler

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Re: The Etruscan Language
« Reply #11 on: March 17, 2021, 11:35:32 AM »
Quote from: Shifter on March 17, 2021, 01:13:06 AM


That's what I think
What is "this shit again"? There was some similar thread on this forum that did not go well? I do not know about that.
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FlatAssembler

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Re: The Etruscan Language
« Reply #12 on: March 17, 2021, 11:36:10 AM »
Quote from: Stash on March 17, 2021, 10:52:42 AM
Quote from: FlatAssembler on March 16, 2021, 01:03:00 PM
What do you guys here think...

Apparently it's garbage.

TL;DR:
"Altogether, I’m counting one mistake (lupu), one word I couldn’t verify (uor), an unlikely construction (lack of something for ago), and two vagaries (correct plural form avilar? correct adjective for “Etruscan”?). I’d say this goes to show that we cannot construct any old sentence from an incompletely attested and incompletely understood language."

Full explanation: https://www.quora.com/Is-%F0%90%8C%93%F0%90%8C%80%F0%90%8C%94%F0%90%8C%84%F0%90%8C%8D%F0%90%8C%80-%F0%90%8C%8B%F0%90%8C%96%F0%90%8C%90%F0%90%8C%96-%F0%90%8C%86%F0%90%8C%80%F0%90%8C%88%F0%90%8C%93%F0%90%8C%96%F0%90%8C%8C
So, I have studied Etruscan some more and corrected those mistakes.
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FlatAssembler

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Re: The Etruscan Language
« Reply #13 on: March 17, 2021, 11:37:27 AM »
Quote from: boydster on March 17, 2021, 11:13:18 AM
OMG one of the replies has me cracking up
Quote
You’ve got letters designed to be written right to left written left to right. That's your first problem.

And it looks like that answer came 4 days before this thread!
Yeah, Etruscan letters are flipped in some fonts: https://www.reddit.com/r/learnprogramming/comments/m63x4p/chrome_and_firefox_on_android_render_etruscan/gr3t6h2/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3
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Jamie

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Re: The Etruscan Language
« Reply #14 on: March 17, 2021, 11:46:17 AM »
Wise hasn't posted here in months. I think he "Thorked off."
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FlatAssembler

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Re: The Etruscan Language
« Reply #15 on: March 17, 2021, 12:25:19 PM »
Quote from: Jamie on March 17, 2021, 11:46:17 AM
Wise hasn't posted here in months. I think he "Thorked off."
Perhaps this website got banned in Turkey. And it meets people who use TOR Browser with an endless stream of CAPTCHAs.
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FlatAssembler

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Re: The Etruscan Language
« Reply #16 on: March 17, 2021, 01:40:14 PM »
Quote from: Jamie on March 17, 2021, 09:56:32 AM
Why do you only speak dead languages?
I also speak English and Croatian, and those are not dead languages at all. I also speak a bit of German, and it is also not at all a dead language. I speak a bit of Latin, which is kind-of dead, but not really. I think more people speak Latin as native speakers than they speak Istriot (some 500 people speak Istriot), and Istriot is not considered dead. So much so that the Istrian Independence Movement cites it as a reason to separate from Croatia.
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GlaringEye

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Re: The Etruscan Language
« Reply #17 on: March 17, 2021, 08:59:52 PM »
Latin has native speakers? I was under the impression that only priests and scholars kept it going
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Wolvaccine

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Re: The Etruscan Language
« Reply #18 on: March 17, 2021, 09:50:01 PM »
Quote from: FlatAssembler on March 17, 2021, 11:35:32 AM
Quote from: Shifter on March 17, 2021, 01:13:06 AM


That's what I think
What is "this shit again"? There was some similar thread on this forum that did not go well? I do not know about that.

This "shit" being your topics. You asked for my thoughts. That was mine. Do carry on
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FlatAssembler

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Re: The Etruscan Language
« Reply #19 on: March 18, 2021, 12:14:57 AM »
Quote from: GlaringEye on March 17, 2021, 08:59:52 PM
Latin has native speakers? I was under the impression that only priests and scholars kept it going
Mostly. But Josiah Ethan Meadows, for example, is a native speaker.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2021, 12:17:15 AM by FlatAssembler »
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Jamie

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Re: The Etruscan Language
« Reply #20 on: March 18, 2021, 05:16:35 AM »
Quote from: GlaringEye on March 17, 2021, 08:59:52 PM
Latin has native speakers? I was under the impression that only priests and scholars kept it going

It's like Esperanto having "native" speakers -- it's intentional, which I think distinguishes it. Sure, if you grow up speaking a language, it's your native language. But there's a difference between it just being the language of your community and it being an intentional effort to teach it to you. At least I think so, even if the end results are practically identical.

Quote from: FlatAssembler on March 17, 2021, 01:40:14 PM
Quote from: Jamie on March 17, 2021, 09:56:32 AM
Why do you only speak dead languages?
I also speak English and Croatian, and those are not dead languages at all. I also speak a bit of German, and it is also not at all a dead language. I speak a bit of Latin, which is kind-of dead, but not really. I think more people speak Latin as native speakers than they speak Istriot (some 500 people speak Istriot), and Istriot is not considered dead. So much so that the Istrian Independence Movement cites it as a reason to separate from Croatia.

No, Latin is dead. It's no longer the native language of any community. There may be priests teaching sermons in Latin; there may even be a few people who've been taught Latin from birth. Even if it's still in use, it doesn't matter. Latin still isn't the native language of any community anymore.
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faded mike

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Re: The Etruscan Language
« Reply #21 on: March 18, 2021, 05:39:58 AM »
I enjoyed the "New Earth" youtube channel talking about (mostly unmentioned in the mainstream) ancient Italian megaliths hypothesized to be made by the Etruscans.
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JimmyTheCrab

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Re: The Etruscan Language
« Reply #22 on: March 18, 2021, 06:53:03 AM »
Quote from: FlatAssembler on March 17, 2021, 01:40:14 PM
I speak a bit of Latin, which is kind-of dead, but not really. I think more people speak Latin as native speakers than they speak Istriot (some 500 people speak Istriot), and Istriot is not considered dead. So much so that the Istrian Independence Movement cites it as a reason to separate from Croatia.
That just shows you don't even know the definition of a dead language.  It has nothing to do with how many people speak it.

Quote
But Josiah Ethan Meadows, for example, is a native speaker.
Native to where?  Lantinia?  This doesn't even make any sense.
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markjo

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Re: The Etruscan Language
« Reply #23 on: March 18, 2021, 05:53:12 PM »
Quote from: FlatAssembler on March 18, 2021, 12:14:57 AM
Quote from: GlaringEye on March 17, 2021, 08:59:52 PM
Latin has native speakers? I was under the impression that only priests and scholars kept it going
Mostly. But Josiah Ethan Meadows, for example, is a native speaker.

Quote from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extinct_language
An extinct language is a language that no longer has any speakers,[1] especially if the language has no living descendants.[2] In contrast, a dead language is "one that is no longer the native language of any community", even if it is still in use, like Latin.
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FlatAssembler

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Re: The Etruscan Language
« Reply #24 on: March 25, 2021, 09:53:32 AM »
Quote from: markjo on March 18, 2021, 05:53:12 PM
Quote from: FlatAssembler on March 18, 2021, 12:14:57 AM
Quote from: GlaringEye on March 17, 2021, 08:59:52 PM
Latin has native speakers? I was under the impression that only priests and scholars kept it going
Mostly. But Josiah Ethan Meadows, for example, is a native speaker.

Quote from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extinct_language
An extinct language is a language that no longer has any speakers,[1] especially if the language has no living descendants.[2] In contrast, a dead language is "one that is no longer the native language of any community", even if it is still in use, like Latin.
I think there are degrees in how dead a language is. English is a lot more alive than Latin. But Latin is a lot more alive than Old English or Hittite or Sumerian. And Old English and Hittite and Sumerian are a lot more alive than Etruscan is.
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markjo

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Re: The Etruscan Language
« Reply #25 on: March 25, 2021, 10:16:40 AM »
Quote from: FlatAssembler on March 25, 2021, 09:53:32 AM
I think there are degrees in how dead a language is.
Perhaps, but does it really matter to anyone other than an academic?
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Jamie

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Re: The Etruscan Language
« Reply #26 on: March 25, 2021, 10:37:25 AM »
There are also degrees to how decayed a dead body is, but it's still a dead fucking body.
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markjo

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Re: The Etruscan Language
« Reply #27 on: March 25, 2021, 10:55:39 AM »
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FlatAssembler

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Re: The Etruscan Language
« Reply #28 on: March 30, 2021, 05:26:38 AM »
Quote from: Jamie on March 25, 2021, 10:37:25 AM
There are also degrees to how decayed a dead body is, but it's still a dead fucking body.
Ancient languages become less decayed over time, these days. In the 12th century, we didn't know a single word of Etruscan. Now we know quite a few words and a bit of grammar. Similar for Hittite. And even more so for Sumerian, the mere name "Sumerian" was probably forgotten in the 12th century, and now it is a language we know quite a bit about. Whether Latin has been decaying... well, in some sense, yes, in other senses, it is coming back from the dead. Fewer people speak Latin fluently than they did 100 years ago. On the other hand, we know quite a bit more about the early stages of Latin than we did 100 years ago.
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Re: The Etruscan Language
« Reply #29 on: March 30, 2021, 06:41:52 AM »
Quote from: markjo on March 25, 2021, 10:16:40 AM
Quote from: FlatAssembler on March 25, 2021, 09:53:32 AM
I think there are degrees in how dead a language is.
Perhaps, but does it really matter to anyone other than an academic?
It matters to anybody interested in social sciences, does not it?
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