The Flat Earth Society
Flat Earth Discussion Boards => Flat Earth General => Topic started by: Gibbo on February 11, 2020, 07:06:49 AM
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What is the benefit to whoever it shall be of maintaining the pretence that the earth is a globe? How do people make money out of it?, how do people gain power by it?
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I have moved my reply likewise admin moved it without asking. I have moved it to A&R. You can find my reply there.
https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=69582.msg2234929#msg2234929
I did it because angry globalists can intervene this thread after moved here. But it was safe when it stayed in Q&A. You can still read my reply and there isn't a difference between here and A&R other than I have not to reply their agressive behaves there. A new frontline is the last thing I want.
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What is the benefit to whoever it shall be of maintaining the pretence that the earth is a globe? How do people make money out of it?, how do people gain power by it?
Some say that NASA gains from it by being paid some $USD 20 billion per year but today that's chicken-feed compared to the value of the "space industry" worldwide.
This review, Global Space Industry Dynamics (https://www.industry.gov.au/sites/default/files/2019-03/global_space_industry_dynamics_-_research_paper.pdf), states "The global space economy was worth an estimated $USD 345 billion USD in 2016".
And there's more in ECONOMIC AND SECURITY COMMITTEE(ESC)THE FUTURE OF THE SPACE INDUSTRY, General Report by Jean-Marie BOCKEL (https://www.nato-pa.int/download-file?filename=sites/default/files/2018-12/2018%20-%20THE%20FUTURE%20OF%20SPACE%20INDUSTRY%20-%20BOCKEL%20REPORT%20-%20173%20ESC%2018%20E%20fin.pdf).
And in: statista: Revenue of the global satellite industry from 2006 to 2018 (https://www.statista.com/statistics/262635/revenue-of-the-global-satellite-industry/).
But the question remains as to when this "pretence that the earth is a globe" was supposed to start.
It is commonly accepted that in Greece and hence the "Western World" that by the 3rd century BC the Spherical Earth was firmly established.
There is not a shadow of a doubt that, while there was discussion in Europe in the first few centuries AD, the Globe Earth has been the only shape seriously considered in the last couple of millennia.
So when is this "pretence that the earth is a globe" supposed to have started - many or most flat Earthers seem to blame NASA but they simply weren't there.
From the period Copernicus, Kepler and Newton virtually all astronomers and other scientists simply took the Heliocentric Solar System as a fact.
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The only viable justification which still borders on the insane only works if you are religious.
It is that Satan or [insert "bad" deity here] or those controlled by them are doing it to lead people away from God or [insert "good" deity here].
Money is a stupid reason.
The globe has been known about for much longer than NASA or other space agencies/entities being given money like that.
So what was the motive for starting it?
But more importantly, why such a public thing, which costs so much money?
NASA gets what seems like a lot of money, $20 billion dollars a year.
But that has to provide a salary to a large number of employees and buy lots of materials from various companies including the expensive fuel used to load the rockets, or to pay another company (like spaceX) to do so.
And if they are faking everything from space they then need to spend loads and loads of money on all the faking. They would need a multitude of transmitters to fake all the services from space, almost blanketing Earth, which would come at outrageous cost; they would need to produce loads of images and make sure what is observed on them matches what is observed from the ground, and so on.
And such a big conspiracy then leaves you open to loads of blackmail where people can try demanding more and more money.
There wouldn't be any left over to deal with other nefarious activities like "Wise" suggests. I would be surprised if it didn't run a deficit.
There is a much better way for governments to extract money from their people, top secret projects. The US government has what is known as a black budget. This was something like $80 billion dollars for 2018.
Unlike NASA's budget, there is no need for accounting where this money went.
This can be used to pay illegal organisations or do basically any activity.
They don't need to produce anything for the public.
If people try to blackmail them for revealing it they can be charged with treason and executed or treated as spies or terrorists, no need for any payoffs.
It makes far more sense for them to just funnel money into there than pretend Earth is round and pretend to set up a space organisation.
So money is clearly not a valid motivation.
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Money is clearly a valid motivation
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Money is clearly a valid motivation
Strong argument, totally moved me
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Money is clearly a valid motivation
It might be if you could tell us, what money.
Show us the money trail - the Global space industry was worth almost $USD 350 billion and NASA, the usual target only gets a paltry $USD 20 billion or so.
That $USD 350 billion is largely for services provided, such as TV satellites - no TV satellite no money.
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Money is clearly a valid motivation
It might be if you could tell us, what money.
Show us the money trail - the Global space industry was worth almost $USD 350 billion and NASA, the usual target only gets a paltry $USD 20 billion or so.
That $USD 350 billion is largely for services provided, such as TV satellites - no TV satellite no money.
Mostly the money used
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Mostly the money used
Rab, I dont think Moonshrimp guy is gonna give you the well thought out argument that your looking for.
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HEHEHE MOONSHRIMP
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Mostly the money used
Rab, I dont think Moonshrimp guy is gonna give you the well thought out argument that your looking for.
Nope, but what can you expect from a person who does not back up their assertions with evidence?
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I must warn you, please do not resort to slurs
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I must warn you, please do not resort to slurs
So why don't you answer the questions I raise?
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In no way does "money" answer the conspiracy.
As it would not generate any wealth in holding the conspiracy, but would cost a lot in stead.
So who ever is on top has no money going his way, only money flowing out.
This is a shitty way to get rich for anyone.
And now when you have countries that dont give a shit about NASA or the USA in general, and have tons of reasons to betray/ bribe them, why should they keep the conspiracy going? Why should I keep the conspiracy going if I have no reason to?
Where is my darn pay from NASA?
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Money is clearly a valid motivation
Except I clearly explained why it isn't. (And there are plenty more reasons why).
Not only are you highly unlikely to make any money from it and instead are more likely to need to pay, including to keep people quiet; the more important fact is that there are vastly better ways to take money from people, such as black budgets which have no accountability.
So money is clearly not a valid motivation in any way.
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There are five common explanations for this, but in the end without toppling the Planar Conspiracy there is no real way to know. Different people believe different explanations, or even ones not mentioned here.
To Control Information: In a similar way to 1984, control of information is control of everything. The flat earth is even mentioned in the book itself.
They are wrong: simply said, we are wrong about the shape of the earth, and there is no conspiracy. This describes why the earth might look round from far away: https://theflatearthsociety.org/home/index.php/blog/einsteins-relativity-proves-earth-flat
To Maintain Legitimacy: During the Cold War we faked the moon landing. Shortly after they realized the reason they could not reach the moon was due to the flatness of the Earth. They were stuck in a lie, and had to continue it or lose legitimacy of our governments. Even today we would still hold onto this lie due to role Science plays in our ruling government.
To hide the truth of the Bible.
To Gain Power and Money: By siphoning off the space budgets and denying the world the resources of the Antarctic they gain a considerable amount of power and wealth.
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They are wrong: simply said, we are wrong about the shape of the earth, and there is no conspiracy. This describes why the earth might look round from far away: https://theflatearthsociety.org/home/index.php/blog/einsteins-relativity-proves-earth-flat
I'll just look at this one claim of yours:
No, your "EINSTEIN'S RELATIVITY PROVES THE EARTH IS FLAT" does no such thing.- The title "EINSTEIN'S RELATIVITY PROVES THE EARTH IS FLAT" is simply incorrect.
Einstein's General Relativity does not "curve space" in such a way that the shape appears to change. All the curvature of spacetime does is to make the Earth appear a few cm larger than the physical size.
Nor does it claim that the mass of the Earth bends light by enough to be measurable let alone making a flat Earth look curved of spherical!
- Your "Ferrari Effect" is simply a reference to an obviously spoof video.
Dr. Leo Charles Ferrar introduces the Ferrari Effect, though, undoubtedly because of his modesty :o, he never called it that.
And the main feature, (https://i.postimg.cc/RFjSxxnH/smiley-wearing-shades.png) proving the reality of the Ferrari Effect (https://i.postimg.cc/RFjSxxnH/smiley-wearing-shades.png):
AMAZING! Dr. Leo Charles Ferrari PROVES FLAT EARTH...
See more in AMAZING! Dr. Leo Charles Ferrari PROVES FLAT EARTH, These are clearly men of science, they can't be wrong - right? (https://flatearthinsanity.blogspot.com.au/2016/07/amazing-dr-leo-charles-ferrari-proves.html) (The link to the video is broken in that reference but it was the video above.)
And in case anyone doubts that the video is tongue-in-cheek, take particular note of:- "light curved by mass makes the earth look a sphere from space" from 14:00.
Sure, mass curves light but "If a beam of light were to pass right over Earth surface, it would be bent by 0.0006 arc-seconds."
In other words, the whole premise behind the so-called "Ferrari Effect" is hogwash!
- Day and night explained by "Instead of spinning around . . it goes up and down . . . ;D" at 19:55
- "Space/non-Space ;D" from 20:30. Then at 21:00 "and you can move through 'non-space' in no time" ;D.
- "Cows in Antarctica" at 22:38 - Duh!
"IN SEARCH OF THE EDGE: An Inquiry into the Shape of the Earth and the Disappearance of Andrea Barns" STUDY GUIDE (http://www.bullfrogfilms.com/guides/searchguide.pdf)
Reading the STUDY GUIDE leaves no doubt as to the purpose of "In Search of the Edge".
But, enjoy the video for what it was intended to be!
You have seen the completely "fantastic" flat earth model presented in the video.
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/nwo67jjo2b5a9bu/smiley_wearing_shades.png?dl=1) The Earth moving up and down causing night and day. (https://www.dropbox.com/s/nwo67jjo2b5a9bu/smiley_wearing_shades.png?dl=1)
If anyone takes that "model" seriously, ??????
This might enlighten people to the "Ferrari Effect".
Still, if you wish to be regarded as the incarnation of the clown but great educator, Leo Ferrari, then carry on with your farcical "EINSTEIN'S RELATIVITY PROVES THE EARTH IS FLAT"!
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Yes Rab, I named it after him as he gave me the idea to look into it. It could be better named perhaps, but it is named as such to help bolster folks clicking the link.
Attempting to poison the well, perhaps?
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Yes Rab, I named it after him as he gave me the idea to look into it. It could be better named perhaps, but it is named as such to help bolster folks clicking the link.
Attempting to poison the well, perhaps?
No, just showing that your "EINSTEIN'S RELATIVITY PROVES THE EARTH IS FLAT" does no such thing.
You could say that the surface of the sphere is a 2-dimensional non-Euclidean space but that has nothing to do with Einstein's relativity nor with proving the Earth to be flat.
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What is the benefit to whoever it shall be of maintaining the pretence that the earth is a globe? How do people make money out of it?, how do people gain power by it?
If you replace the word flat then this sentence makes complete sense and poses a sensible question. As for the questions about money and power... perhaps when you find out you can enlighten please. As it is with the word 'globe' the sentence is nonsense.
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Attempting to poison the well, perhaps?
Oh, common, you already took a big dump in that well.
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There are five common explanations for this, but in the end without toppling the Planar Conspiracy there is no real way to know. Different people believe different explanations, or even ones not mentioned here.
To Control Information: In a similar way to 1984, control of information is control of everything. The flat earth is even mentioned in the book itself.
The problem is who is THEY?
Because who ever "they" is will need friendly co-operation from every other authority in the world, including the likes of both Iran and Israel.
Unless you live under a rock, you will realize that few countries agree on anything.
They are wrong: simply said, we are wrong about the shape of the earth, and there is no conspiracy. This describes why the earth might look round from far away: https://theflatearthsociety.org/home/index.php/blog/einsteins-relativity-proves-earth-flat
There is so much evidence that the world is round, if it is anything except round the only other option is a matrix like simulation, where the world may be flat in another version of reality, but not ours.
The odds of a round world against a flat world look dim for the latter.
To Maintain Legitimacy: During the Cold War we faked the moon landing. Shortly after they realized the reason they could not reach the moon was due to the flatness of the Earth. They were stuck in a lie, and had to continue it or lose legitimacy of our governments. Even today we would still hold onto this lie due to role Science plays in our ruling government.
And why would the USA's sworn enemy at the time agree with something like that?
USSR was ready to nuke the USA, but happy to play along with this?
And then why would all the countries decide to play along? The world is bigger than the USA.
To hide the truth of the Bible.
only 1 third of the world is Christian. India and China have nothing to lose here.
To Gain Power and Money: By siphoning off the space budgets and denying the world the resources of the Antarctic they gain a considerable amount of power and wealth.
The USA space budget more than 4 times is smaller than Nestles annual revenue.
You can literally make more money selling chocolates and bottles water than taking all of NASA's money.
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Unless you live under a rock, you will realize that few countries agree on anything.
That's what THEY want you to think.
By convincing people that these countries hate each other and would happily blow each other's cover it makes the lie more convincing.
Maybe the real reason Qasem Soleimani was killed was that he was tired of all the lies?
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Unless you live under a rock, you will realize that few countries agree on anything.
That's what THEY want you to think.
By convincing people that these countries hate each other and would happily blow each other's cover it makes the lie more convincing.
Maybe the real reason Qasem Soleimani was killed was that he was tired of all the lies?
I think guys like Gaddafi, Stalin, Hitler, Saddam Hussein realised that those where real bombs coming their way at some point.
"Hey guys, its still a joke right . . . . guys . . . "
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I think guys like Gaddafi, Stalin, Hitler, Saddam Hussein realised that those where real bombs coming their way at some point.
"Hey guys, its still a joke right . . . . guys . . . "
Hitler killed himself, with his body pretty much destroyed beyond recognition before it was found. So did he really die? There are already conspiracy theories about his escape from Germany.
Stalin died from cerebral hemorrhage, not a bomb.
And with what is shown in movies these days, were the other deaths real either?
Hussein's execution was carried out in a military compound, and his body was either taken from the tomb, or was "destroyed" with the tomb.
Gaddafi allegedly died in transit. His body was buried without an autopsy.
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I think guys like Gaddafi, Stalin, Hitler, Saddam Hussein realised that those where real bombs coming their way at some point.
"Hey guys, its still a joke right . . . . guys . . . "
Hitler killed himself, with his body pretty much destroyed beyond recognition before it was found. So did he really die? There are already conspiracy theories about his escape from Germany.
Stalin died from cerebral hemorrhage, not a bomb.
And with what is shown in movies these days, were the other deaths real either?
Hussein's execution was carried out in a military compound, and his body was either taken from the tomb, or was "destroyed" with the tomb.
Gaddafi allegedly died in transit. His body was buried without an autopsy.
The way they died was not the point. They all died with their backs to the wall and had less than zero reason to keep any conspiracy alive. In fact, if there was a conspiracy it would have greatly benefited them to blow it wide open to weaken their opposition.
The question remains, why would they keep a conspiracy that would have helped them if they blew it wide open. Yet none of them even mentioned the idea of a Flat World.
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The way they died was not the point. They all died with their backs to the wall and had less than zero reason to keep any conspiracy alive. In fact, if there was a conspiracy it would have greatly benefited them to blow it wide open to weaken their opposition.
The question remains, why would they keep a conspiracy that would have helped them if they blew it wide open. Yet none of them even mentioned the idea of a Flat World.
I wasn't focusing on how they died, but if they really died at all? (With the exception of Stalin, who like I said died of a hemorrhage, I don't see how telling everyone Earth is flat would have helped with that).
If there was a conspiracy and they blew it open then they could have died for real, without it helping them at all.
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I wasn't focusing on how they died, but if they really died at all? (With the exception of Stalin, who like I said died of a hemorrhage, I don't see how telling everyone Earth is flat would have helped with that).
If there was a conspiracy and they blew it open then they could have died for real, without it helping them at all.
Well, either way, Hitler is dead today one way or other.
Yeah, but when your backed in a corner, you will use what ever you have to get out.
If keeping the secret was such a big deal, it would also obviously hurt your opposition. Otherwise they would not need the big secret in the first place.
For Hitler, Stalin, Gaddaffi and Saddam, the USA was an opponent. To not use an obvious tool at your disposal would make no sense. Even if they where not backed up against a corner, it still makes sense to use what ever you have against your opponent. This still applies today, what incentive does Iran, Vietnam, North Korea, most African countries, China or India have to not use "the secret" as a massive bargaining chip against the USA.
The bigger the secret, the weaker you are to bribery. Especially considering that any nation with any surveying ability would have access to this information.
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Well, either way, Hitler is dead today one way or other.
Yeah, but when your backed in a corner, you will use what ever you have to get out.
If keeping the secret was such a big deal, it would also obviously hurt your opposition. Otherwise they would not need the big secret in the first place.
For Hitler, Stalin, Gaddaffi and Saddam, the USA was an opponent. To not use an obvious tool at your disposal would make no sense. Even if they where not backed up against a corner, it still makes sense to use what ever you have against your opponent. This still applies today, what incentive does Iran, Vietnam, North Korea, most African countries, China or India have to not use "the secret" as a massive bargaining chip against the USA.
The bigger the secret, the weaker you are to bribery. Especially considering that any nation with any surveying ability would have access to this information.
You aren't getting what I am saying.
I'm suggesting that they weren't opponents.
That WWII and the like were all for show (at least to those in charge).
That in "reality" the leaders actually get along and are all in on the conspiracy.
That they "pretend" to hate each other to make the lies more believable.
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You aren't getting what I am saying.
I'm suggesting that they weren't opponents.
That WWII and the like were all for show (at least to those in charge).
That in "reality" the leaders actually get along and are all in on the conspiracy.
That they "pretend" to hate each other to make the lies more believable.
Never heard of the Nuremberg trials?
Also, you will have to explain how a guy like Hitler, at fist a commoner, slowly raised to power by shouting for the death of America and Europe his whole life BEFORE he was elected president; was suddenly trusted by America and Europe to such a massive secret.
Stalin, Gaddaffi and Saddam all had similar up bringing. The hatred of America, Europe or the West is a common string between them.
At what point does NASA go to them and say
"Hey, I know you really just want us dead, but how about we tell you this really big secret that could ruin us if it got out, we good now?"
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Never heard of the Nuremberg trials?
Never heard of the mountains of evidence which shows that Earth is round beyond any sane doubt, putting to rest any sane notion of a conspiracy?
If that doesn't stop people what makes you think something like the Nuremberg trials would?
Remember, people that believe in conspiracy theories would go quite far with less than sane ideas.
Also, you will have to explain how a guy like Hitler, at fist a commoner, slowly raised to power by shouting for the death of America and Europe his whole life BEFORE he was elected president; was suddenly trusted by America and Europe to such a massive secret.
Again, it comes down to how much was set up?
Was he truly a commoner that grew to power?
Or was he actually acting right from the start?
Or were some of the details of his childhood "altered"?
Or did he really just want power and riches, and when gaining it was approached by the Americans that agreed to help if he joined them?
You also overlook a big issue, if they did approach him, and he didn't agree, I doubt he would try to "reveal" the secret, as he would just appear to be crazy.
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You also overlook a big issue, if they did approach him, and he didn't agree, I doubt he would try to "reveal" the secret, as he would just appear to be crazy.
So what you are saying is, that all the Flat Earth Proponents are just people NASA identified as potential world leaders; and revealed to them the secret. They are just extreme underachievers.
I can get behind this.
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Maybe six million Jews were planning to reveal the "Big Secret"!
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You also overlook a big issue, if they did approach him, and he didn't agree, I doubt he would try to "reveal" the secret, as he would just appear to be crazy.
So what you are saying is, that all the Flat Earth Proponents are just people NASA identified as potential world leaders; and revealed to them the secret. They are just extreme underachievers.
I can get behind this.
How do you like the opinion of the FEIC, Flat Earth International Conference, on "the Flat Earth Society"?
The flat-Earth conspiracy is spreading around the globe. Does it hide a darker core? (https://edition.cnn.com/2019/11/16/us/flat-earth-conference-conspiracy-theories-scli-intl/index.html)
. . . . . . . . . . .
And thirdly, modern flat Earthers have little in common with the Flat Earth Society, a group that has existed for decades and has more than 200,000 followers on Facebook.
(https://cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/191115124433-06-flat-earth-movement-restricted-exlarge-169.jpg)
Samuel Shenton, founder of the International Flat Earth Research Society (IFERS), in 1967.
That organization, some speakers told CNN, is a government-controlled body designed to pump out misinformation and make the flat-Earth cause sound far-fetched to curious minds. Davidson calls their theories "completely ridiculous."
The Flat Earth Society told CNN: "We are not a government-controlled body. We're an organization of Flat Earth theorists that long predates most of the FEIC newcomers to the scene."
"It probably goes without saying that we find no joy in this sectarianism, or the elevated emotions that surround some of our disagreements," the group added in response to criticism from speakers at the conference. "We wish the Flat Earth International Conference organizers all the best, but we remain steadfast in our own convictions."
But flat Earthers don't pretend to have all the answers. "People don't really know 100% what (the Earth) is, we're just questioning what we're being told it is," Davidson explains.
Several members of the community have carried out their own experiments, like bringing spirit levels onto airplanes, that have supposedly proved their thesis.
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There are five common explanations for this, but in the end without toppling the Planar Conspiracy there is no real way to know. Different people believe different explanations, or even ones not mentioned here.
To Control Information: In a similar way to 1984, control of information is control of everything. The flat earth is even mentioned in the book itself.
The problem is who is THEY?
Because who ever "they" is will need friendly co-operation from every other authority in the world, including the likes of both Iran and Israel.
Unless you live under a rock, you will realize that few countries agree on anything.
Obviously. This is not a problem; you have just restated the premise.
They are wrong: simply said, we are wrong about the shape of the earth, and there is no conspiracy. This describes why the earth might look round from far away: https://theflatearthsociety.org/home/index.php/blog/einsteins-relativity-proves-earth-flat
There is so much evidence that the world is round, if it is anything except round the only other option is a matrix like simulation, where the world may be flat in another version of reality, but not ours.
The odds of a round world against a flat world look dim for the latter.
Odds have nothing to do with it, and I think if you actually cared to calculate them you'd be surprised. The idea of falsification as a line of demarcation is at odds with the idea of a probabilistic science. Karl Popper lays this out pretty well.
To Maintain Legitimacy: During the Cold War we faked the moon landing. Shortly after they realized the reason they could not reach the moon was due to the flatness of the Earth. They were stuck in a lie, and had to continue it or lose legitimacy of our governments. Even today we would still hold onto this lie due to role Science plays in our ruling government.
And why would the USA's sworn enemy at the time agree with something like that?
USSR was ready to nuke the USA, but happy to play along with this?
And then why would all the countries decide to play along? The world is bigger than the USA.
They did not agree with it.
To hide the truth of the Bible.
only 1 third of the world is Christian. India and China have nothing to lose here.
Awesome, because both those countries have religions that are based in a flat earth. Aside from this, they still gain something by undermining the bible.
To Gain Power and Money: By siphoning off the space budgets and denying the world the resources of the Antarctic they gain a considerable amount of power and wealth.
The USA space budget more than 4 times is smaller than Nestles annual revenue.
You can literally make more money selling chocolates and bottles water than taking all of NASA's money.
Yes, their reported "budget" is. Apparently you forgot about the private sector that is deeply tied to space travel; folks like Lockheed Martin.