Youtube - Foundational Falsehood of Creationism

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ﮎingulaЯiτy

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Re: Youtube - Foundational Falsehood of Creationism
« Reply #150 on: April 07, 2009, 03:37:16 PM »
Old link; Relevant message.



I believe it covers the water topic.
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WardoggKC130FE

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Re: Youtube - Foundational Falsehood of Creationism
« Reply #151 on: April 07, 2009, 07:00:48 PM »
Here are some common themes.  Each one very different from the other.  Take your pick, and enjoy the kool-aid.

    * The cooling of the primordial Earth to the point where the outgassed volatile components were held in an atmosphere of sufficient pressure for the stabilization and retention of liquid water.

    * Comets, trans-Neptunian objects or water-rich asteroids (protoplanets) from the outer reaches of the asteroid belt colliding with a pre-historic Earth may have brought water to the world's oceans. Measurements of the ratio of the hydrogen isotopes deuterium and protium point to asteroids, since similar percentage impurities in carbon-rich chondrites were found to oceanic water, whereas previous measurement of the isotopes' concentrations in comets and trans-Neptunian objects correspond only slightly to water on the earth.

    * Biochemically through mineralization and photosynthesis (guttation, transpiration).

    * Gradual leakage of water stored in hydrous minerals of the Earth's rocks.

    * Photolysis: radiation can break down chemical bonds on the surface.


Re: Youtube - Foundational Falsehood of Creationism
« Reply #152 on: April 07, 2009, 07:31:54 PM »
I don't understand how scientist disagreeing is evidence towards creationism. I have went over why there is not water on other planets. So what, scientist aren't sure how water came to the earth. all of those ideas could have happened on another planet that happened to be in the correct position. It really isn't evidence that earth is special. It is evidence that scientist haven't found the answer yet. you don't need to give god credit for everything unknown
« Last Edit: April 07, 2009, 07:46:03 PM by optimisticcynic »
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WardoggKC130FE

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Re: Youtube - Foundational Falsehood of Creationism
« Reply #153 on: April 07, 2009, 07:37:35 PM »
I don't understand how scientist disagreeing is evidence towards creationism. I have when over why there is not water on other planets. scientist aren't sure how water came to the earth. all of those could have happened on another planet that happened to be in the correct position. It really isn't evidence that earth is special. It is evidence that scientist haven't found the answer yet.

Great job.

Re: Youtube - Foundational Falsehood of Creationism
« Reply #154 on: April 07, 2009, 09:23:31 PM »
I don't understand how scientist disagreeing is evidence towards creationism. I have when over why there is not water on other planets. scientist aren't sure how water came to the earth. all of those could have happened on another planet that happened to be in the correct position. It really isn't evidence that earth is special. It is evidence that scientist haven't found the answer yet.

Great job.
Okay the only evidence you have is A. there is no water on the other planets, which I explained why that is, and B. The fact scientist are do not have a consensus on how water got to our planet.
that is not evidence that our planet is the only one that has water.
that is like saying I have not met bill I have only heard people talk about him and they say different things about bill therefore bill does not exist
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Re: Youtube - Foundational Falsehood of Creationism
« Reply #155 on: April 08, 2009, 12:36:26 AM »
Dear Wardogg,

Appeals to your sense of reason are as futile as shouting at mountains to move.  This endeavor gets nowhere.  Where does this leave us?  On opposing sides of a river of debate.  Your side is rich in history and an exquisite look into the enigma of the human psyche.  On your side of this metaphorical river are the greatest works of paint, poetry, pottery, prose, and a myriad of masterworks over many mediums have been commissioned, constructed, crafted, created, and conjured.  All alliterations aside, you stand on the bank your river proud and unapologetic; unmoved and unshaken you shine like a beacon for others to follow.  Why should you be shaken, moved, or apologetic?  You stand in front of what is represented by your side, power, prestige, and a promise of security.  You stand a representative of faith; the noble philosophy of belief in ideas unprovable, hypotheses untestable, and words unquestionable. 
   
Opposed by science and the advancement of mankind you fight vigilantly.  Knowingly or not, when theories that oppose your view are proven to be true you fight them with lies, deceit, misinformation, or outright denial.  What you do not realize however, is that the river is long and has flowed for many centuries.  Better men than us have stood at its banks; men who have valiantly furthered their causes and laid the way for us to follow.  Unfortunately, many men worse than us have stood here as well; when they command attention the river runs red with blood.  Circuitously I say, this debate has raged on for millennia and in the end provable science always wins.  No matter how much you don't want it to or how hard you shy in the shroud of ignorance, science will win.  There are many levels of resistance people employ to fight science.  Some people lie to their followers, some try in vain to poke holes in the opposing argument, some live out their lives in denial, and yet some commit atrocities of mass murder.  All for naught though, in the end science always prevails.
   
Science will always triumph because it offers people tangible and measureable benefits.  Proof of this should dot your life like stars in the night's sky.  Religion offers comfort and assurance to a tormented soul, but this is meaningless to a starving family.  I know you hold your convictions strong and you know you are right.  I know that you have felt the warm loving touch of the divine and I know that you accept it with all your heart.  I also know that you fight your fight under that guiding light.  What you do not know is the implications of your cause.  You stand against the betterment of all of humanity.  To fight evolution is to fight cures of devastating diseases, to fight the improvement of medicine, to fight knowledge.  By trying to suppress evolution you are willfully and knowingly depriving children the knowledge needed to help the human race flourish and grow.
   
You stand proud; we balk at how you can find a shred of pride to stand on.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2009, 01:00:35 AM by Pongo »

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Re: Youtube - Foundational Falsehood of Creationism
« Reply #156 on: April 08, 2009, 10:46:14 AM »
I have a feeling that Wardogg is a "Frank Burns" character, even by Marine standards.

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WardoggKC130FE

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Re: Youtube - Foundational Falsehood of Creationism
« Reply #157 on: April 08, 2009, 11:04:18 AM »
I don't understand how scientist disagreeing is evidence towards creationism. I have when over why there is not water on other planets. scientist aren't sure how water came to the earth. all of those could have happened on another planet that happened to be in the correct position. It really isn't evidence that earth is special. It is evidence that scientist haven't found the answer yet.

Great job.
Okay the only evidence you have is A. there is no water on the other planets, which I explained why that is, and B. The fact scientist are do not have a consensus on how water got to our planet.
that is not evidence that our planet is the only one that has water.
that is like saying I have not met bill I have only heard people talk about him and they say different things about bill therefore bill does not exist

Oh really? I bet thats exactly what you say about God.

Re: Youtube - Foundational Falsehood of Creationism
« Reply #158 on: April 08, 2009, 11:13:49 AM »
I don't understand how scientist disagreeing is evidence towards creationism. I have when over why there is not water on other planets. scientist aren't sure how water came to the earth. all of those could have happened on another planet that happened to be in the correct position. It really isn't evidence that earth is special. It is evidence that scientist haven't found the answer yet.

Great job.
Okay the only evidence you have is A. there is no water on the other planets, which I explained why that is, and B. The fact scientist are do not have a consensus on how water got to our planet.
that is not evidence that our planet is the only one that has water.
that is like saying I have not met bill I have only heard people talk about him and they say different things about bill therefore bill does not exist

Oh really? I bet thats exactly what you say about God.
No I never said god didn't exist. I said I don't know if he exist. Second no one I know has met god personally.
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WardoggKC130FE

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Re: Youtube - Foundational Falsehood of Creationism
« Reply #159 on: April 08, 2009, 03:02:20 PM »
Dear Wardogg,

Appeals to your sense of reason are as futile as shouting at mountains to move.  This endeavor gets nowhere.  Where does this leave us?  On opposing sides of a river of debate.  Your side is rich in history and an exquisite look into the enigma of the human psyche.  On your side of this metaphorical river are the greatest works of paint, poetry, pottery, prose, and a myriad of masterworks over many mediums have been commissioned, constructed, crafted, created, and conjured.  All alliterations aside, you stand on the bank your river proud and unapologetic; unmoved and unshaken you shine like a beacon for others to follow.  Why should you be shaken, moved, or apologetic?  You stand in front of what is represented by your side, power, prestige, and a promise of security.  You stand a representative of faith; the noble philosophy of belief in ideas unprovable, hypotheses untestable, and words unquestionable. 
   
Opposed by science and the advancement of mankind you fight vigilantly.  Knowingly or not, when theories that oppose your view are proven to be true you fight them with lies, deceit, misinformation, or outright denial.  What you do not realize however, is that the river is long and has flowed for many centuries.  Better men than us have stood at its banks; men who have valiantly furthered their causes and laid the way for us to follow.  Unfortunately, many men worse than us have stood here as well; when they command attention the river runs red with blood.  Circuitously I say, this debate has raged on for millennia and in the end provable science always wins.  No matter how much you don't want it to or how hard you shy in the shroud of ignorance, science will win.  There are many levels of resistance people employ to fight science.  Some people lie to their followers, some try in vain to poke holes in the opposing argument, some live out their lives in denial, and yet some commit atrocities of mass murder.  All for naught though, in the end science always prevails.
   
Science will always triumph because it offers people tangible and measureable benefits.  Proof of this should dot your life like stars in the night's sky.  Religion offers comfort and assurance to a tormented soul, but this is meaningless to a starving family.  I know you hold your convictions strong and you know you are right.  I know that you have felt the warm loving touch of the divine and I know that you accept it with all your heart.  I also know that you fight your fight under that guiding light.  What you do not know is the implications of your cause.  You stand against the betterment of all of humanity.  To fight evolution is to fight cures of devastating diseases, to fight the improvement of medicine, to fight knowledge.  By trying to suppress evolution you are willfully and knowingly depriving children the knowledge needed to help the human race flourish and grow.
   
You stand proud; we balk at how you can find a shred of pride to stand on.


Some how how i missed this post earlier.  I will agree that better men than us have debated this.  Its funny when I view sciences' stance on evolution and the begining of the earth to me it looks like a religion, alot of guess and presumptions that no one can prove.  When you mock my belief in something that is unproven and unshown and then you spout that water formed on earth becuase of comets that flew by 4.5 million years ago you have to somewhat see my side of it.

Believe what you want.  I applaud your convictions to science, one way or another we are all going to find out for sure, and that is a fact.

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ﮎingulaЯiτy

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Re: Youtube - Foundational Falsehood of Creationism
« Reply #160 on: April 08, 2009, 04:00:54 PM »
Today we had a Christian Scholar briefly speak during my comparative religion class. He talked about how "none of the people who wrote the gospels, did so from firsthand experience." Nothing was written for a good 50 AD until Saul/Paul came along and wrote things down based on the myths of Jesus that he could collect from spectator's descendants. (actually even his status as real author is questioned) Essentially, he was the first literate newly converted Christian to go around and record stories of Jesus from children who had heard rumors and myths passed on by their elders. The Gospels came even later.

Romans who were persecuting the Christians couldn't understand why people would follow Christianity. Written stories (the only and most reliable account of news at the time) had reason to be embellished, exaggerated, or downright fabricated in order to present an undeniable perception of Jesus to the Roman people. An elitist Roman general was written in as a witness to Jesus stating that he was indeed the son of God. This was later read and added to in the next gospel to include his entire army as well. When it was mentioned that the stone of Jesus' tomb was moved aside, Gospels written after it replaced a man in a robe who spoke of Jesus' resurrection with an angel who moved the stone herself. These miraculous stories were invented for the purpose of trying to convert as many people as possible, "as faith writings, and not as historical accounts."

The scholar told us that common Christians (not in a derogatory way) usually didn't know this, and if you go to a church and get up in front of everyone and present the historical reasons that the Gospels weren't written by the apostles' nor was it able to be (or even meant to be) accurate, you'd probably be stoned to death or something. It is really something that only the historian Christians commonly agree upon and the rest of the world has to catch up.
...Much like when the scientific community was all zeroing in on the changes of population over time and Darwin presented his (and Wallace's) take on evolution to them. He got little response from them but then he published a book and citizens who hadn't gradually come to similar conclusions on their own were hearing them for the first time, it came as a shock and caused great controversy. He told us he was shocked too, when he first became familiar with this.

Any well educated Christian scholar will tell you that the Gospels are written for spiritual purposes and aren't meant to be taken literally. They are simply stories to embrace spirituality, not to report actual events. All in all, Jesus has become more of a mythical figure who is based on a man who did claim to be the messiah and died by Crucifiction. We can't know much more about him, except for the fictive literature of the people he indirectly moved, and the Roman census.

[This relates heavily to the 2nd Foundational Falsehood of Creationism video.]

As for embracing spirituality and not reality, it is much like Santa Claus. We are all taught that he is real when we are young, because it is an essential part of the spirit of Christmas. He doesn't have to be real, to carry some sort of meaning. Christmas wouldn't be the same if he was written out.






Some how how i missed this post earlier.  I will agree that better men than us have debated this.
Hi. It's been a while Wardogg.

First off, how is that relevant? Are we appealing to other people's debates to avoid our own inquiry? Quite frankly, I feel like watching any one of those debates I would be able to pick a "winner" or "loser", based on their reasoning and debate skills.  :-\

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Its funny when I view sciences' stance on evolution and the beginning of the earth to me it looks like a religion, a lot of guess and presumptions that no one can prove.

What presumptions are you talking about? And what proof are you asking for?

The only perfect proof is witnessing the creation of the Earth, so what we have instead is sizable evidence. Furthermore, it is not religious because it is based upon the principles of observation and repetition. Gravitational attraction of swirling masses, debris, planetesimals, and protoplanets are all seen in distant space. Connecting them as a stages in a cycle takes little to no imagination. If you want to know more about Nebular Theory, just ask.

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When you mock my belief in something that is unproven and unshown and then you spout that water formed on earth because of comets that flew by 4.5 million years ago you have to somewhat see my side of it.
I don't approve of the ridicule of others or their beliefs, but I should probably mention that it is accepted by the vast majority of scientists that H20 ice is a large part of comets. I don't see any flaw in thinking that dust-like snow from comets was commonly intercepting Earth's orbit. Not to mention outgassing of the planet's inner water from global cooling would release large amounts of water and air.

Quote
Believe what you want.  I applaud your convictions to science, one way or another we are all going to find out for sure, and that is a fact.
We will only find out for sure if there is an afterlife. If we just die, we won't even know that we were waiting on an answer. What part of science don't you like? The methods or the conclusions?
« Last Edit: April 08, 2009, 04:15:29 PM by ﮎingulaЯiτy »
If I was asked to imagine a perfect deity, I would never invent one that suffers from a multiple personality disorder. Christians get points for originality there.

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WardoggKC130FE

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Re: Youtube - Foundational Falsehood of Creationism
« Reply #161 on: April 08, 2009, 05:08:19 PM »
Some how how i missed this post earlier.  I will agree that better men than us have debated this.
Hi. It's been a while Wardogg.

First off, how is that relevant? Are we appealing to other people's debates to avoid our own inquiry? Quite frankly, I feel like watching any one of those debates I would be able to pick a "winner" or "loser", based on their reasoning and debate skills.  :-\

Yes, it has been awhile,  Here we go again.   ;)  So because someone can out debate someone else that makes that winners position "correct"?  It may only mean that the winner was more knowledgeable in the particular subject.

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Its funny when I view sciences' stance on evolution and the beginning of the earth to me it looks like a religion, a lot of guess and presumptions that no one can prove.

What presumptions are you talking about? And what proof are you asking for?

The only perfect proof is witnessing the creation of the Earth, so what we have instead is sizable evidence. Furthermore, it is not religious because it is based upon the principles of observation and repetition. Gravitational attraction of swirling masses, debris, planetesimals, and protoplanets are all seen in distant space. Connecting them as a stages in a cycle takes little to no imagination. If you want to know more about Nebular Theory, just ask.

You know this little quote brought alot of questions to my head about viewing things in distance space.  Im not even sure they are relevenat other than to  maybe the age of the universe.  I need to ask one question before I start though.  After the big bang how fast did things start to accelerate away from each other.  And how long did that acceleration last, and are they still accelerating or has it become a constant expansion?

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When you mock my belief in something that is unproven and unshown and then you spout that water formed on earth because of comets that flew by 4.5 million years ago you have to somewhat see my side of it.
I don't approve of the ridicule of others or their beliefs, but I should probably mention that it is accepted by the vast majority of scientists that H20 ice is a large part of comets. I don't see any flaw in thinking that dust-like snow from comets was commonly intercepting Earth's orbit. Not to mention outgassing of the planet's inner water from global cooling would release large amounts of water and air.

No its not.  There are so many hypothesis about how water got on this planet.  Go back to page 5 where I listed just a few of them.

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Believe what you want.  I applaud your convictions to science, one way or another we are all going to find out for sure, and that is a fact.
We will only find out for sure if there is an afterlife. If we just die, we won't even know that we were waiting on an answer. What part of science don't you like? The methods or the conclusions?

Mostly it's conclusions that aren't based on fact.  Just speculations, and the "well it had to happen someway so this must be it'. 

Re: Youtube - Foundational Falsehood of Creationism
« Reply #162 on: April 08, 2009, 05:27:12 PM »
Mostly it's conclusions that aren't based on fact.  Just speculations, and the "well it had to happen someway so this must be it'. 
Isn't that exactly what religion is? 

"Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one" - Albert Einstein

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WardoggKC130FE

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Re: Youtube - Foundational Falsehood of Creationism
« Reply #163 on: April 08, 2009, 05:30:10 PM »
Mostly it's conclusions that aren't based on fact.  Just speculations, and the "well it had to happen someway so this must be it'. 
Isn't that exactly what religion is? 

So you agree, science and religion are the same?

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Raist

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Re: Youtube - Foundational Falsehood of Creationism
« Reply #164 on: April 08, 2009, 05:33:41 PM »
Mostly it's conclusions that aren't based on fact.  Just speculations, and the "well it had to happen someway so this must be it'. 
Isn't that exactly what religion is? 

So you agree, science and religion are the same?

Actually he compared what you claimed was not science to religion. So no.

Re: Youtube - Foundational Falsehood of Creationism
« Reply #165 on: April 08, 2009, 05:38:54 PM »
Mostly it's conclusions that aren't based on fact.  Just speculations, and the "well it had to happen someway so this must be it'. 
Isn't that exactly what religion is? 

So you agree, science and religion are the same?
No, your definition of science seemed to fit religion more.  Scientific conclusions are based on facts, the problem is that we don't always have all the facts.  A certain amount is speculation, but scientific theories evolve and change as more information is obtained.  I can't say the same for religion.

"Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one" - Albert Einstein

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WardoggKC130FE

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Re: Youtube - Foundational Falsehood of Creationism
« Reply #166 on: April 08, 2009, 05:45:43 PM »
Mostly it's conclusions that aren't based on fact.  Just speculations, and the "well it had to happen someway so this must be it'. 
Isn't that exactly what religion is? 

So you agree, science and religion are the same?
No, your definition of science seemed to fit religion more.  Scientific conclusions are based on facts, the problem is that we don't always have all the facts.  A certain amount is speculation, but scientific theories evolve and change as more information is obtained.  I can't say the same for religion.

So its based of facts, just not all of them.  Comets have water ice, FACT.  Comets sometimes fly by earth, FACT.  Comets must have deposited the oceans on the young earth, uhhhh What the fuck?  Where is the fact in that?  (yes i know it was an exageration there at the end but the principle is still there.)  Comets deposited enough water to create a revolving weather system that produced the oceans, whatever the case may be how many comets had to fly by? 

Jesus was a man.  FACT  Jesus claimed to be the son of God and the messiah, FACT.  God created the entire universe in 6 days.  Yours sounds no different than mine.  The only difference is what endng you choose to believe.

Re: Youtube - Foundational Falsehood of Creationism
« Reply #167 on: April 08, 2009, 05:54:34 PM »
But science has evidence to support it's claims.  Religion is fundamentally unscientific, in that its claims cannot be verified of falsified.  And theories are just that, they're theories.  No one is saying that comets MUST have deposited water on Earth, it's just an explanation that makes sense based on the evidence we have.  I will say that religion acts in a similar way to science.  It's different because it is an explanation based on belief alone, rather than observable evidence.

"Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one" - Albert Einstein

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WardoggKC130FE

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Re: Youtube - Foundational Falsehood of Creationism
« Reply #168 on: April 08, 2009, 05:57:41 PM »
But science has evidence to support it's claims.  Religion is fundamentally unscientific, in that its claims cannot be verified of falsified.  And theories are just that, they're theories.  No one is saying that comets MUST have deposited water on Earth, it's just an explanation that makes sense based on the evidence we have.  I will say that religion acts in a similar way to science.  It's different because it is an explanation based on belief alone, rather than observable evidence.

But without seeing a comet drop ice on a new planet and then seeing that planet have oceans its exactly the same.  You believe comets deposited water on earth having never seen it happen here or anywhere else.  An explanation based on a belief.  You have no observable evidence.


BTW why didn't the moon catch any of this magical comet ice?

Re: Youtube - Foundational Falsehood of Creationism
« Reply #169 on: April 08, 2009, 06:28:20 PM »
But science has evidence to support it's claims.  Religion is fundamentally unscientific, in that its claims cannot be verified of falsified.  And theories are just that, they're theories.  No one is saying that comets MUST have deposited water on Earth, it's just an explanation that makes sense based on the evidence we have.  I will say that religion acts in a similar way to science.  It's different because it is an explanation based on belief alone, rather than observable evidence.

But without seeing a comet drop ice on a new planet and then seeing that planet have oceans its exactly the same.  You believe comets deposited water on earth having never seen it happen here or anywhere else.  An explanation based on a belief.  You have no observable evidence.


BTW why didn't the moon catch any of this magical comet ice?

Because the moon doesn't have the gravity so all the water would have left do to sublimation. once it turned  to a gas it would have been blown of by the solar wind.
Any other evidence against it that you have? Second just because you call something magical doesn't make it more unlikely.
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ﮎingulaЯiτy

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Re: Youtube - Foundational Falsehood of Creationism
« Reply #170 on: April 08, 2009, 06:29:36 PM »
So because someone can out debate someone else that makes that winners position "correct"?
I never said that. I am only implying that debate is not beyond our comprehension.

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What presumptions are you talking about? And what proof are you asking for?

The only perfect proof is witnessing the creation of the Earth, so what we have instead is sizable evidence. Furthermore, it is not religious because it is based upon the principles of observation and repetition. Gravitational attraction of swirling masses, debris, planetesimals, and protoplanets are all seen in distant space. Connecting them as a stages in a cycle takes little to no imagination. If you want to know more about Nebular Theory, just ask.

You know this little quote brought alot of questions to my head about viewing things in distance space.  Im not even sure they are relevenat other than to  maybe the age of the universe.  I need to ask one question before I start though.  After the big bang how fast did things start to accelerate away from each other.  And how long did that acceleration last, and are they still accelerating or has it become a constant expansion?

The big bang/creation of the universe is a separate subject then the formation of our plant. Just like abiogenesis and evolution are different topics. I don't see how going off on a tangent to that topic is a prerequisite for you answering mine.

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I don't approve of the ridicule of others or their beliefs, but I should probably mention that it is accepted by the vast majority of scientists that H20 ice is a large part of comets. I don't see any flaw in thinking that dust-like snow from comets was commonly intercepting Earth's orbit. Not to mention outgassing of the planet's inner water from global cooling would release large amounts of water and air.

No its not.  There are so many hypothesis about how water got on this planet.  Go back to page 5 where I listed just a few of them.

I'm not sure what you are talking about. What "isn't"?
Did I say comets were the only plausible source or something?

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What part of science don't you like? The methods or the conclusions?

Mostly it's conclusions that aren't based on fact.  Just speculations, and the "well it had to happen someway so this must be it'.
Tell me, which theories would you like the supporting evidence for?
If I was asked to imagine a perfect deity, I would never invent one that suffers from a multiple personality disorder. Christians get points for originality there.

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WardoggKC130FE

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Re: Youtube - Foundational Falsehood of Creationism
« Reply #171 on: April 08, 2009, 06:34:00 PM »
What part of science don't you like? The methods or the conclusions?
Quote
Mostly it's conclusions that aren't based on fact.  Just speculations, and the "well it had to happen someway so this must be it'.
Tell me, which theories would you like the supporting evidence for?

You pick your favorite how water got on earth theory.   

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ﮎingulaЯiτy

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Re: Youtube - Foundational Falsehood of Creationism
« Reply #172 on: April 08, 2009, 06:38:42 PM »
So its based of facts, just not all of them.  Comets have water ice, FACT.  Comets sometimes fly by earth, FACT.  Comets must have deposited the oceans on the young earth, uhhhh What the fuck?
It is a plausible scenario, not a stubborn belief. If we find decent evidence to the contrary, you can bet I'll abandon it.

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Where is the fact in that?  (yes i know it was an exageration there at the end but the principle is still there.)
It's not claimed to be fact that a substantial amount of water originated from comets during young earth.

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Comets deposited enough water to create a revolving weather system that produced the oceans, whatever the case may be how many comets had to fly by?
I'm thinking impacts primarily. But it likely that there was far far more comets and asteroids back in the times of a developing earth, than there are today. Collisions usually only happen once.

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Jesus was a man.  FACT  Jesus claimed to be the son of God and the messiah, FACT.  God created the entire universe in 6 days.  Yours sounds no different than mine.
There's no means in your scenario. Gravity, collection, et cetera are means for the collection of debris for Earth.
If I was asked to imagine a perfect deity, I would never invent one that suffers from a multiple personality disorder. Christians get points for originality there.

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ﮎingulaЯiτy

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Re: Youtube - Foundational Falsehood of Creationism
« Reply #173 on: April 08, 2009, 06:39:11 PM »
You pick your favorite how water got on earth theory.   
Who says all of them didn't happen? They could just as easily all contribute to our oceans.
If I was asked to imagine a perfect deity, I would never invent one that suffers from a multiple personality disorder. Christians get points for originality there.

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WardoggKC130FE

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Re: Youtube - Foundational Falsehood of Creationism
« Reply #174 on: April 08, 2009, 06:47:03 PM »
You pick your favorite how water got on earth theory.   
Who says all of them didn't happen? They could just as easily all contribute to our oceans.

That is by no stretch of the word "evidence"

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ﮎingulaЯiτy

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Re: Youtube - Foundational Falsehood of Creationism
« Reply #175 on: April 08, 2009, 06:49:38 PM »
That is by no stretch of the word "evidence"
All the theories I support have means.

If you see a kid holding a brick over another kids head, look away for a moment, and look back to see that the second kids has a bashed in head, the "means" is the reason for making a connection.

The evidence is self introducing simply by the fact that it has potential to result in that outcome, whether or not it is directly observed.
If I was asked to imagine a perfect deity, I would never invent one that suffers from a multiple personality disorder. Christians get points for originality there.

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WardoggKC130FE

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Re: Youtube - Foundational Falsehood of Creationism
« Reply #176 on: April 08, 2009, 06:55:35 PM »
That is by no stretch of the word "evidence"
All the theories I support have means.

If you see a kid holding a brick over another kids head, look away for a moment, and look back to see that the second kids has a bashed in head, the "means" is the reason for making a connection.

Try holding that one up in court.

Here is your evidence, as I see it.

Comets have ice water.....Thats it.

Here are your speculations:

Alot of comets came by the earth.

Alot of comets impacted the earth

Alot of water somehow survived these impacts to hang around and pool up together

This water combined with other sources there is no proof for and became a water producing weather system



Too many speculations and not much evidence is what i would call basis for a belief in an unknown.

Re: Youtube - Foundational Falsehood of Creationism
« Reply #177 on: April 08, 2009, 07:07:38 PM »
There is a difference between our arguments. One of our ideas is comets brought water to the ocean. We know both comets and oceans exist.
your argument deals with the fact the universe exist so god must exist. We are dealing with two known s and how they could go together. You have one known and one unknown and how it should go together. Can you see the difference.
How would the water not survive the impact? it would become steam that would condense and rain down. The molecules that form it would not be destroyed. And we have enough gravity so it couldn't escape from the planet.
You can't outrun death forever
But you can sure make the old bastard work for it.

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WardoggKC130FE

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Re: Youtube - Foundational Falsehood of Creationism
« Reply #178 on: April 08, 2009, 07:12:18 PM »
There is a difference between our arguments. One of our ideas is comets brought water to the ocean. We know both comets and oceans exist.
your argument deals with the fact the universe exist so god must exist. We are dealing with two known s and how they could go together. You have one known and one unknown and how it should go together. Can you see the difference.
How would the water not survive the impact? it would become steam that would condense and rain down. The molecules that form it would not be destroyed. And we have enough gravity so it couldn't escape from the planet.

Because the amount would be so miniscule considering the current humidity of the planet was 0% it would have evaporated into parts per billion never to be seen again.  We would have to be talking about daily hits here over many years.

I to have two knowns.  I know the universe exists, and I know there is enough holes in the scientific theory on how life started there must be another explaination.

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ﮎingulaЯiτy

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Re: Youtube - Foundational Falsehood of Creationism
« Reply #179 on: April 08, 2009, 07:13:02 PM »
Here are your speculations:

Alot of comets came by the earth.
Nebular theory states that they would do to gravitational attraction to the sun and probability.
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Alot of comets impacted the earth
Remember that according to the theory, the planet was formed from debris swirling together from gravitation and eventually clustering into one object from constant impacts.

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Alot of water somehow survived these impacts to hang around and pool up together
How does water "not survive"? Is it alive now?

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This water combined with other sources there is no proof for and became a water producing weather system
I don't even know what you are talking about when you say "water producing".

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Too many speculations and not much evidence is what i would call basis for a belief in an unknown.
Are you suggesting that it doesn't have more evidence in its favor than creationism?
If I was asked to imagine a perfect deity, I would never invent one that suffers from a multiple personality disorder. Christians get points for originality there.