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Clarification on Gravity

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: Clarification on Gravity
« Reply #390 on: August 09, 2008, 11:15:46 AM »
Quote from: divito the truthist on August 09, 2008, 11:15:13 AM
Quote from: Roundy the Truthinessist on August 09, 2008, 11:10:15 AM
The ellipses imply that the 9s go on forever.

Precisely why it doesn't equal 1.

But it does.
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Quote from: wise on August 21, 2018, 11:47:45 PM
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divito the truthist

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Re: Clarification on Gravity
« Reply #391 on: August 09, 2008, 11:18:19 AM »
.999... ~ 1
.999... != 1
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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: Clarification on Gravity
« Reply #392 on: August 09, 2008, 11:24:48 AM »
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Quote from: wise on August 21, 2018, 11:47:45 PM
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divito the truthist

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Re: Clarification on Gravity
« Reply #393 on: August 09, 2008, 11:33:25 AM »
".9 is not 1; neither is .999, nor .9999999999. In fact if you stop the
expansion of 9s at any finite point, the fraction you have (like .9999
= 9999/10000) is never equal to 1. But each time you add a 9, the
error is less. In fact, with each 9, the error is ten times smaller.

You can show (using calculus or other methods) that with a large
enough number of 9s in the expansion, you can get arbitrarily close to
1, and here's the key:

THERE IS NO OTHER NUMBER THAT THE SEQUENCE GETS ARBITRARILY CLOSE TO.

Thus, if you are going to assign a value to .9999... (going on
forever), the only sensible value is 1."
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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: Clarification on Gravity
« Reply #394 on: August 09, 2008, 11:35:11 AM »
Quote from: divito the truthist on August 09, 2008, 11:33:25 AM
".9 is not 1; neither is .999, nor .9999999999. In fact if you stop the
expansion of 9s at any finite point, the fraction you have (like .9999
= 9999/10000) is never equal to 1. But each time you add a 9, the
error is less. In fact, with each 9, the error is ten times smaller.

You can show (using calculus or other methods) that with a large
enough number of 9s in the expansion, you can get arbitrarily close to
1, and here's the key:

THERE IS NO OTHER NUMBER THAT THE SEQUENCE GETS ARBITRARILY CLOSE TO.

Thus, if you are going to assign a value to .9999... (going on
forever), the only sensible value is 1."


Exactly.  ???
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Quote from: wise on August 21, 2018, 11:47:45 PM
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divito the truthist

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Re: Clarification on Gravity
« Reply #395 on: August 09, 2008, 11:37:46 AM »
The only sensible option does not make it equivalent.

Essentially, it's like saying a pony is a horse.
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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: Clarification on Gravity
« Reply #396 on: August 09, 2008, 11:42:27 AM »
Quote from: divito the truthist on August 09, 2008, 11:37:46 AM
The only sensible option does not make it equivalent.

Essentially, it's like saying a pony is a horse.

That's a terrible analogy.  The fact is that mathematically .999... = 1.

When you add .333... (which is equivalent to 1/3) to .666... (which is equivalent to 2/3) the only sensible sum is .999...

Since 1/3 + 2/3 = 3/3 = 1, and .333... + .666... = .999..., .999... must equal 1.
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Quote from: wise on August 21, 2018, 11:47:45 PM
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Josef

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Re: Clarification on Gravity
« Reply #397 on: August 09, 2008, 11:42:56 AM »
Hello again. I was talking about this in another thread but got no answer. Maybe this one is a better thread for my questions..

According to the initial post, The Engineer have said "... Gravitation is a consequence of the deformation of space, no force between objects necessary.".

So my concerns is:
How can mass affect/warp/deform spacetime without force?

It feels like im really missing something very important..
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divito the truthist

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Re: Clarification on Gravity
« Reply #398 on: August 09, 2008, 11:48:56 AM »
Quote from: Roundy the Truthinessist on August 09, 2008, 11:42:27 AM
That's a terrible analogy.  The fact is that mathematically .999... = 1.

When you add .333... (which is equivalent to 1/3) to .666... (which is equivalent to 2/3) the only sensible sum is .999...

Since 1/3 + 2/3 = 3/3 = 1, and .333... + .666... = .999..., .999... must equal 1.

Not really a terrible analogy. It looks like a horse, moves like a horse, even sounds like one. Why isn't it one? Because it's not.

That proof is a weak attempt with the transitive property.

Quote from: Josef on August 09, 2008, 11:42:56 AM
How can mass affect/warp/deform spacetime without force?

If someone knew that, they'd have a Nobel Prize. Although not just mass affects spacetime.
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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: Clarification on Gravity
« Reply #399 on: August 09, 2008, 11:50:21 AM »
Well, .999... = 1.  I really gave you more credit than this.  Oh well.
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Quote from: wise on August 21, 2018, 11:47:45 PM
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divito the truthist

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Re: Clarification on Gravity
« Reply #400 on: August 09, 2008, 11:51:34 AM »
Same.

Oh, and Josef, it feels important that we don't really know it but there isn't much of a way around it. Maybe you'll get more used to it in time or after reading up a bit on General Relativity.
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Josef

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Re: Clarification on Gravity
« Reply #401 on: August 09, 2008, 11:53:30 AM »
Quote from: Roundy the Truthinessist on August 09, 2008, 11:42:27 AM
Quote from: divito the truthist on August 09, 2008, 11:37:46 AM
The only sensible option does not make it equivalent.

Essentially, it's like saying a pony is a horse.

That's a terrible analogy.  The fact is that mathematically .999... = 1.

When you add .333... (which is equivalent to 1/3) to .666... (which is equivalent to 2/3) the only sensible sum is .999...

Since 1/3 + 2/3 = 3/3 = 1, and .333... + .666... = .999..., .999... must equal 1.

.333... is not more equivalent to 1/3 than .999 is to 1.
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Josef

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Re: Clarification on Gravity
« Reply #402 on: August 09, 2008, 11:56:16 AM »
Quote from: divito the truthist on August 09, 2008, 11:51:34 AM
Same.

Oh, and Josef, it feels important that we don't really know it but there isn't much of a way around it. Maybe you'll get more used to it in time or after reading up a bit on General Relativity.

I thought the bending WAS the force? Different words for the same thing..
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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: Clarification on Gravity
« Reply #403 on: August 09, 2008, 11:58:31 AM »
Quote from: Josef on August 09, 2008, 11:53:30 AM
Quote from: Roundy the Truthinessist on August 09, 2008, 11:42:27 AM
Quote from: divito the truthist on August 09, 2008, 11:37:46 AM
The only sensible option does not make it equivalent.

Essentially, it's like saying a pony is a horse.

That's a terrible analogy.  The fact is that mathematically .999... = 1.

When you add .333... (which is equivalent to 1/3) to .666... (which is equivalent to 2/3) the only sensible sum is .999...

Since 1/3 + 2/3 = 3/3 = 1, and .333... + .666... = .999..., .999... must equal 1.

.333... is not more equivalent to 1/3 than .999 is to 1.

 ???
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Quote from: wise on August 21, 2018, 11:47:45 PM
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Josef

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Re: Clarification on Gravity
« Reply #404 on: August 09, 2008, 12:01:44 PM »
Yay off topic!
The number debate.. Just a thought..
Is 1.000...(infinite amount of zeros)...1(ends with 1) also 1?
You can never "reach" the ending 1, but its there, should it be counted?

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Josef

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Re: Clarification on Gravity
« Reply #405 on: August 09, 2008, 12:04:46 PM »
Quote from: Roundy the Truthinessist on August 09, 2008, 11:58:31 AM
Quote from: Josef on August 09, 2008, 11:53:30 AM
Quote from: Roundy the Truthinessist on August 09, 2008, 11:42:27 AM
Quote from: divito the truthist on August 09, 2008, 11:37:46 AM
The only sensible option does not make it equivalent.

Essentially, it's like saying a pony is a horse.

That's a terrible analogy.  The fact is that mathematically .999... = 1.

When you add .333... (which is equivalent to 1/3) to .666... (which is equivalent to 2/3) the only sensible sum is .999...

Since 1/3 + 2/3 = 3/3 = 1, and .333... + .666... = .999..., .999... must equal 1.

.333... is not more equivalent to 1/3 than .999 is to 1.

 ???

What?
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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: Clarification on Gravity
« Reply #406 on: August 09, 2008, 12:06:48 PM »
Quote from: Josef on August 09, 2008, 12:01:44 PM
Yay off topic!
The number debate.. Just a thought..
Is 1.000...(infinite amount of zeros)...1(ends with 1) also 1?
You can never "reach" the ending 1, but its there, should it be counted?



Mathematically, I believe that is equivalent to 1.  But I'm not sure it really makes sense.
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Quote from: wise on August 21, 2018, 11:47:45 PM
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Josef

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Re: Clarification on Gravity
« Reply #407 on: August 09, 2008, 12:16:02 PM »
Quote from: divito the truthist on August 09, 2008, 11:48:56 AM
Quote from: Josef on August 09, 2008, 11:42:56 AM
How can mass affect/warp/deform spacetime without force?

If someone knew that, they'd have a Nobel Prize. Although not just mass affects spacetime.

Thank you. I've learned something.
Now: making waffles.
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divito the truthist

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Re: Clarification on Gravity
« Reply #408 on: August 09, 2008, 12:21:33 PM »
Making me hungry.
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Colonel Gaydafi

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Re: Clarification on Gravity
« Reply #409 on: August 09, 2008, 03:25:59 PM »
Quote from: Roundy the Truthinessist on August 09, 2008, 11:10:15 AM
Quote from: divito the truthist on August 09, 2008, 10:53:12 AM
Please tell me at what magnitude that .999... = 1

I'd love to know.

At what magnitude?  The ellipses imply that the 9s go on forever.

1/3 = .333...
2/3 = .666...
3/3 = ?

We always put a dot over the number to make it go on forever
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narcberry

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Re: Clarification on Gravity
« Reply #410 on: August 09, 2008, 03:57:42 PM »
Even if .999 goes on forever, that IS NOT 1!
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Colonel Gaydafi

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Re: Clarification on Gravity
« Reply #411 on: August 09, 2008, 04:01:27 PM »
Wait, why do we care?
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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: Clarification on Gravity
« Reply #412 on: August 09, 2008, 05:09:13 PM »
It is though.
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Quote from: wise on August 21, 2018, 11:47:45 PM
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Parsifal

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Re: Clarification on Gravity
« Reply #413 on: August 09, 2008, 10:39:07 PM »
I do believe the issue of 0.999... being equal to 1 is the first time I have disagreed with Divito.

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cbarnett97

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Re: Clarification on Gravity
« Reply #414 on: August 09, 2008, 10:44:32 PM »
Quote from: Robosteve on August 09, 2008, 10:39:07 PM
I do believe the issue of 0.999... being equal to 1 is the first time I have disagreed with Divito.


isnt 0.9*9 8.1?
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Parsifal

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Re: Clarification on Gravity
« Reply #415 on: August 09, 2008, 10:52:02 PM »
Quote from: cbarnett97 on August 09, 2008, 10:44:32 PM
isnt 0.9*9 8.1?

You are an idiot. Stop posting to avoid further embarassment.
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Re: Clarification on Gravity
« Reply #416 on: August 09, 2008, 11:57:07 PM »
Quote from: Robosteve on August 09, 2008, 10:39:07 PM
I do believe the issue of 0.999... being equal to 1 is the first time I have disagreed with Divito.


I can't even be bothered.
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BongWaterHippy

Re: Clarification on Gravity
« Reply #417 on: August 10, 2008, 09:06:40 AM »
.9 x 10 is 9.

Gravity exists because if you throw something upwards it falls back to the ground. If there was no gravity it would keep accelerating upwards until it left Earth forever, but there is a force (gravity) that makes it come back down to the ground.

Also, if there was no gravity, then the sun and moon would fly away from Earth horizontally on a tangential line from the orbit it is currently on. Without gravity, there is no way the sun and moon would circle the Earth without flying away.

Also, everyone who believes the Earth is flat is an idiot.
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Parsifal

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Re: Clarification on Gravity
« Reply #418 on: August 10, 2008, 09:14:46 AM »
Quote from: BongWaterHippy on August 10, 2008, 09:06:40 AM
.9 x 10 is 9.

Gravity exists because if you throw something upwards it falls back to the ground. If there was no gravity it would keep accelerating upwards until it left Earth forever, but there is a force (gravity) that makes it come back down to the ground.

Also, if there was no gravity, then the sun and moon would fly away from Earth horizontally on a tangential line from the orbit it is currently on. Without gravity, there is no way the sun and moon would circle the Earth without flying away.

Also, everyone who believes the Earth is flat is an idiot.

Snore.
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BongWaterHippy

Re: Clarification on Gravity
« Reply #419 on: August 10, 2008, 09:15:34 AM »
Good job on actually refuting SOMETHING I said. I'm a true believer of FE now.
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