Special relativity disproves the flat earth

  • 7 Replies
  • 166 Views
Special relativity disproves the flat earth
« on: May 01, 2024, 12:58:19 PM »
This post was just goofy, So I'm removing it.  Apologies.  The earth is clearly not flat, but this argument was bogus.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2024, 05:08:16 PM by ichoosereality »

*

gnuarm

  • 141
Re: Special relativity disproves the flat earth
« Reply #1 on: May 01, 2024, 02:09:47 PM »
We know that special relativity is correct as we have technology that depends on it (like say radar guns). 

RADAR guns do not depend on relativity, special or general.  RADAR works by the Doppler effect. 


Quote
So if the earth had in fact been accelerating upward at 1g for a very long time we would have long long ago reached .99999...C and would observe all sorts of strange visual effects so extreme that animal life would not be possible since no animal would be able to correctly perceive and hence interact with their environment.  Things look the same observed from any direction. 

I think you need to review relativity.  first of all, there is no absolute frame of reference, so no reference to say the subject is traveling any particular speed. 


Quote
The color of a flashlight remains the same whether pointed up, down or sideways.  Obviously the earth is not traveling upwards at near C.  Just as obviously it's not flat.

No, it's not traveling near c, since there is no frame of reference to relate that to. 

*

Username

  • Administrator
  • 17693
  • President of The Flat Earth Society
Re: Special relativity disproves the flat earth
« Reply #2 on: May 01, 2024, 02:45:49 PM »
We know that special relativity is correct as we have technology that depends on it (like say radar guns).  So if the earth had in fact been accelerating upward at 1g for a very long time we would have long long ago reached .99999...C and would observe all sorts of strange visual effects so extreme that animal life would not be possible since no animal would be able to correctly perceive and hence interact with their environment.  Things look the same observed from any direction.  The color of a flashlight remains the same whether pointed up, down or sideways.  Obviously the earth is not traveling upwards at near C.  Just as obviously it's not flat.
I'm sorry, I'm sure you won't believe this coming from a flat earther, but you don't understand relativity. It would only appear to be traveling at .999 C to an outside observer. Radar guns would work fine. That's the entire point of relativity and why it works how it does...  in fact are you familiar with the equivalence principle? The earth (and observable universe as it is U.A.) are the inside of the elevator.

Do you have an actual discrete example?
« Last Edit: May 01, 2024, 02:47:35 PM by Username »
The illusion is shattered if we ask what goes on behind the scenes.

*

JackBlack

  • 21893
Re: Special relativity disproves the flat earth
« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2024, 03:32:52 PM »
Any time you talk about speed, you need to discuss what it is relative to (unless it is clear from context).
A key part about relatively is that there is no preferred frame.

If you were to take 2 identical space craft, A and B, in an otherwise entirely empty void; and then have one of these (A) remain stationary while the other (B) accelerates to 0.999999999999 c and then continues at that velocity, and then place an observer in each, they would not know which one they were in.
The observer in A looking at B perceives itself, the craft it is in, and the other craft equivalently to the observer in B looking at A.

That is because what matters is relative velocity.
Relative to craft A, the observer in A is stationary, and craft B is travelling at 0.999999999999 c.
Relative to craft B, the observer in B is stationary, and craft A is travelling at 0.999999999999 c.

So even though craft B accelerated and reached that speed, to the observer in it, everything is normal and the "stationary" craft looks strange.

So with your claim of Earth travelling near c, the question is what is it travelling at that speed relative to?
Because it is only to an observer that it is travelling at the speed relative to that it will appear strange.
To a comoving observer, i.e. one on Earth, Earth will appear normal.

If you want to object to UA, a valid objection is the variation in g accross Earth.

Re: Special relativity disproves the flat earth
« Reply #4 on: May 01, 2024, 04:15:42 PM »
Indeed I don't know what I was thinking when I posted this thread.  I did it al too fast.  Variation in g around the earth are a problem for the FE model.   I can only plead temporary brain damage as I know better than this and really can't explain it.   If the mods want to leave it that's fine, or if they want to delete it, that's fine too.

*

Username

  • Administrator
  • 17693
  • President of The Flat Earth Society
Re: Special relativity disproves the flat earth
« Reply #5 on: May 01, 2024, 05:30:40 PM »
We tend to keep things around rather than deleting them, but I'm happy to move it to a non-public sub-forum where you have to be logged in. Thanks for being so well mannered about being corrected, its not a common trait of those who come here.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2024, 05:32:15 PM by Username »
The illusion is shattered if we ask what goes on behind the scenes.

Re: Special relativity disproves the flat earth
« Reply #6 on: May 01, 2024, 05:47:57 PM »
We tend to keep things around rather than deleting them, but I'm happy to move it to a non-public sub-forum where you have to be logged in. Thanks for being so well mannered about being corrected, its not a common trait of those who come here.
Thanks.  I'd rather it was just deleted, but I get it if that is not the usual policy. 

*

gnuarm

  • 141
Re: Special relativity disproves the flat earth
« Reply #7 on: May 01, 2024, 11:34:42 PM »
Indeed I don't know what I was thinking when I posted this thread.  I did it al too fast.  Variation in g around the earth are a problem for the FE model.   I can only plead temporary brain damage as I know better than this and really can't explain it.   If the mods want to leave it that's fine, or if they want to delete it, that's fine too.

I had not given much thought to the variation in the measured values of g around the globe.  The only flat earth explanation I've seen is that the entire disc earth is under constant accelerated by an amount to produce the apparent value of g.  But that would absolutely produce a value of g that is constant across the disc.  So...