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Solar Size

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Gabe

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Solar Size
« on: February 25, 2008, 11:27:50 AM »
The other thread I posted this in was ignored and others cluttered it so I am dedicating it to its own thread.
Quote from: Gabe



Looking at the sun at all stages in the sky (through the glass) it always appears to be the same size.

The FE explanation for the sun not changing in size is glare and projection on light onto the atmosphere. These pictures disprove such a notion. Is this a flaw in FET?
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travis

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Re: Solar Size
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2008, 11:38:25 AM »
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Gabe

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Re: Solar Size
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2008, 11:57:38 AM »
This was actually in response to that. ;)

Let me elaborate: Since the FE sun has to cover a lot of distance and is very close to the Earth in order to function, it also would have to change in size drastically as it  got very far away.

"Glare is causing the size of the sun to stay steady even though it should shrink." explains the size, but you can filter out enough glare to see the actual size, and see it doesn't really change. Because the sun's size doesn't perceptibly change, the distance to the sun must be changing by an insignificant percentage.
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Jimmy911

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Re: Solar Size
« Reply #3 on: February 26, 2008, 02:46:08 PM »
Quote from: Gabe on February 25, 2008, 11:57:38 AM
This was actually in response to that. ;)

Let me elaborate: Since the FE sun has to cover a lot of distance and is very close to the Earth in order to function, it also would have to change in size drastically as it  got very far away.

"Glare is causing the size of the sun to stay steady even though it should shrink." explains the size, but you can filter out enough glare to see the actual size, and see it doesn't really change. Because the sun's size doesn't perceptibly change, the distance to the sun must be changing by an insignificant percentage.
Shouldn't someone bump this? It's a very good point...BUMP!
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ﮎingulaЯiτy

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Re: Solar Size
« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2008, 10:52:32 AM »
A thread will only be answered by a FEer, if an FE answer exists.
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Gabe

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Re: Solar Size
« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2008, 10:03:46 AM »
Bump. This is not rhetorical.
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Quote from: Tom Bishop
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Tom Bishop

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Re: Solar Size
« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2008, 10:31:22 AM »
How would a dark glass eliminate the sun's projection if the projection of the sun's light is upon the semi-transparent strata of the atmosphere?
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fshy94

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Re: Solar Size
« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2008, 10:50:29 AM »
Exactly. Yet it did! Amazing, huh?
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Gabe

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Re: Solar Size
« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2008, 10:52:19 AM »
Projection is not still nor is it distinct, espesically on an almost invisible medium. FE sun theory only works if glare masks it. The sun cannot be distinct without glare unless it is not being projected.

It doesn't eliminate projection from the equation,
it shows it isn't a significant part in this equation at all.
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Quote from: Tom Bishop
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Tom Bishop

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Re: Solar Size
« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2008, 11:36:53 AM »
Quote from: fshy94 on March 04, 2008, 10:50:29 AM
Exactly. Yet it did! Amazing, huh?

No, actually the dark glass did not eliminate the projection upon the atmosphere, which is why the sun is not a tiny dot in the second image.
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sokarul

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Re: Solar Size
« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2008, 12:21:50 PM »
Quote from: Tom Bishop on March 04, 2008, 11:36:53 AM
Quote from: fshy94 on March 04, 2008, 10:50:29 AM
Exactly. Yet it did! Amazing, huh?

No, actually the dark glass did not eliminate the projection upon the atmosphere, which is why the sun is not a tiny dot in the second image.
The atmosphere will only distort the sun once.  Will in a consistent medium the object will not change.  And for the most part the atmosphere is consistent.  The fe sun should get smaller but it never does.   
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Tom Bishop

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Re: Solar Size
« Reply #11 on: March 04, 2008, 10:04:52 PM »
Quote
And for the most part the atmosphere is consistent.  The fe sun should get smaller but it never does.

No it's not. There is more atmosphere in the way the farther the sun recedes from the observer. Therefore there is a greater area for the sun's light to shine upon as the sun moves away.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2008, 09:14:47 AM by Tom Bishop »
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sokarul

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Re: Solar Size
« Reply #12 on: March 05, 2008, 12:29:42 AM »
Quote from: Tom Bishop on March 04, 2008, 10:04:52 PM
Quote
And for the most part the atmosphere is consistent.  The fe sun should get smaller but it never does.

No it's not. There is more atmosphere in the way the farther the sun recedes from the observer.therefore there is a greater area for the sun's light to shine upon as the sun moves away.

You don't understand optics. 
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Jimmy911

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Re: Solar Size
« Reply #13 on: March 05, 2008, 03:51:28 PM »
I have a solar filter from my telescope. Maybe I'll take a picture through it and show the true size of the sun...the same size it is all day.
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Dead Kangaroo

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Re: Solar Size
« Reply #14 on: March 05, 2008, 04:17:59 PM »
Quote from: sokarul on March 04, 2008, 12:21:50 PM
The fe sun should get smaller but it never does.   
Therefore your perception of the FE model fails.
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sokarul

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Re: Solar Size
« Reply #15 on: March 05, 2008, 06:07:59 PM »
Quote from: Viscount Dead Kangaroo on March 05, 2008, 04:17:59 PM
Quote from: sokarul on March 04, 2008, 12:21:50 PM
The fe sun should get smaller but it never does.   
Therefore your perception of the FE model fails.
Its called reading. 

Quote from: sokarul
You don't understand optics.
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Quote from: Shifter on July 05, 2020, 09:53:30 AM
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TheEngineer

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Re: Solar Size
« Reply #16 on: March 05, 2008, 06:39:42 PM »
Quote from: sokarul on March 04, 2008, 12:21:50 PM
And for the most part the atmosphere is consistent.     
Since when?
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fshy94

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Re: Solar Size
« Reply #17 on: March 05, 2008, 06:43:08 PM »


Straight as a razor, eh Engy?
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sokarul

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Re: Solar Size
« Reply #18 on: March 05, 2008, 06:46:26 PM »
Quote from: TheEngineer on March 05, 2008, 06:39:42 PM
Quote from: sokarul on March 04, 2008, 12:21:50 PM
And for the most part the atmosphere is consistent.     
Since when?
Since never, but you don't have the gradient like you do between water and air. 
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TheEngineer

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Re: Solar Size
« Reply #19 on: March 05, 2008, 06:51:51 PM »
Quote from: TheEngineer on March 05, 2008, 06:39:42 PM
Quote from: sokarul on March 04, 2008, 12:21:50 PM
And for the most part the atmosphere is consistent.     
Since when?
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TheEngineer

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Re: Solar Size
« Reply #20 on: March 05, 2008, 06:52:48 PM »
Quote from: fshy94 on March 05, 2008, 06:43:08 PM


Straight as a razor, eh Engy?
It must be a new soka-rule.
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sokarul

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Re: Solar Size
« Reply #21 on: March 05, 2008, 06:57:21 PM »
Quote from: sokarul on March 05, 2008, 06:46:26 PM
Since never, but you don't have the gradient like you do between water and air. 
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Quote from: Shifter on July 05, 2020, 09:53:30 AM
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TheEngineer

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Re: Solar Size
« Reply #22 on: March 05, 2008, 06:58:00 PM »
So it is not consistent, then?
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sokarul

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Re: Solar Size
« Reply #23 on: March 05, 2008, 07:00:44 PM »
Quote from: TheEngineer on March 05, 2008, 06:58:00 PM
So it is not consistent, then?
No, but it is still consistent enough to null tom's argument.  That is why I quoted his argument.  That is also why I said for the most part. 
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Quote from: Shifter on July 05, 2020, 09:53:30 AM
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TheEngineer

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Re: Solar Size
« Reply #24 on: March 05, 2008, 07:37:46 PM »
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sokarul

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Re: Solar Size
« Reply #25 on: March 05, 2008, 08:19:01 PM »
Quote from: TheEngineer on March 05, 2008, 07:37:46 PM
Quote from: fshy94 on March 05, 2008, 06:43:08 PM

What part of that is mostly?
The part where you didn't know optics.  Waters density is 1 g/cm^3 to airs .000000009g/cm^3.  What is bigger, the difference between 1 and 1E-9 or 1E-9 and 1E-6?
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Quote from: Shifter on July 05, 2020, 09:53:30 AM
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fshy94

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Re: Solar Size
« Reply #26 on: March 05, 2008, 09:08:27 PM »
Fair point, but what are we talking about? It would tend to curve the light very slightly, I suppose, but I'm not sure whether the magnitude we're dealing with is significant to do what Tom claims in the least.
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sokarul

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Re: Solar Size
« Reply #27 on: March 05, 2008, 09:10:45 PM »
Quote from: fshy94 on March 05, 2008, 09:08:27 PM
Fair point, but what are we talking about? It would tend to curve the light very slightly, I suppose, but I'm not sure whether the magnitude we're dealing with is significant to do what Tom claims in the least.
Tom is claiming something way out in left field. 
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Quote from: Shifter on July 05, 2020, 09:53:30 AM
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TheEngineer

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Re: Solar Size
« Reply #28 on: March 06, 2008, 07:11:19 AM »
Quote from: sokarul on March 05, 2008, 08:19:01 PM
The part where you didn't know optics.  Waters density is 1 g/cm^3 to airs .000000009g/cm^3.  What is bigger, the difference between 1 and 1E-9 or 1E-9 and 1E-6?
When did I say anything about optics?
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sokarul

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Re: Solar Size
« Reply #29 on: March 06, 2008, 12:29:38 PM »
Quote from: TheEngineer on March 06, 2008, 07:11:19 AM
Quote from: sokarul on March 05, 2008, 08:19:01 PM
The part where you didn't know optics.  Waters density is 1 g/cm^3 to airs .000000009g/cm^3.  What is bigger, the difference between 1 and 1E-9 or 1E-9 and 1E-6?
When did I say anything about optics?
This argument started becasue of optics. 
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