Pics of Another Sunrise Impossible on Flat Earth

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Re: Pics of Another Sunrise Impossible on Flat Earth
« Reply #720 on: October 19, 2023, 06:07:48 AM »
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Video. Should we see the sun Shrink.

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=92080.0

Your cited video totally ignores the actual movement of the sun.

No, it is not.

My very first comment, if you bothered to pay attention to the logic of it, debunked your debunking. You don't bother to understand things, then you pretend they don't exist.

Hell, turbonium's first post debunked your "disproof." You can be in denial all you want, but it's a bit like being in a garden with rose-colored glasses. One day you take them off and discover everything is dead around you.

As for the parabola, are you aware that the Bible, prior to about King James never once uses the word Hell?
Why did I bring this up? It's because an idea can be used outside the source material. Though in the case of Hell, this is a bad example. The original of Hell comes from a mix of some of the more fire and brimstone passages of Jesus, the book of Revelation (which should not have been part of original canon) and its lake of fire, and actually corruption of Christian ideas with Norse influence. Hell is a bad conflation between Helheim (gloomy, not fiery) and Surt's domain.
So yes, because it is not in the video doesn't mean he disproved it. It means he didn't explain it this way.

It's about tendency of angles to "roll". I showed an example of this drawing out angles of the sun passing parallel to humans. That is, if an object passes overhead at a level altitude, when it's behind you, you start with like an acute angle, then it becomes right overhead, then as the sun moves across (not away, across, the sun remains at the same distance in altitude), the angle lengthens, causing a lowering effect. As an angle lengthens and lengthens it appears lower and lower. If you want, I can dig up the picture I used to show exactly that. And then I can draw the line he did in the picture to show you that yes, this is consistent with the theory behind the video.

 Whether or not you add parabolas, the idea is the same. I just included parabolas because if you look around you without the built in assumption that the Earth is round, you see everywhere that it is built on a series of locally flat domes. The idea of Earth's roundness is based on lies.

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The concept of a spherical Earth displaced earlier beliefs in a flat Earth: In early Mesopotamian mythology, the world was portrayed as a disk floating in the ocean with a hemispherical sky-dome above
Actually, that's an accurate depiction. A flat disc with a hemispheric sky dome (*cough* "parabola") above. Wikipedia is trying to tell us that this represents a round Earth? No, this is the flat Earth model.

As for the rest of the Wikipedia article Spherical Earth, I asked for actual history if this, and got very little dates and times, only "causes" and "proof." I'd say look under it if you want to, but it actually just lists in passing things that are supposed to disprove FE.
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These include the visibility of distant objects on Earth's surface; lunar eclipses; appearance of the moon; observation of the sky from altitude; observation of certain fixed stars from different locations; observing the Sun; surface navigation; grid distortion on a spherical surface; weather systems; gravity; and modern technology.
Wikipedia failed to provide history for this theory, so I have to go elsewhere.

https://www.scienceabc.com/eyeopeners/people-figure-earth-round-without-technology.html
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A Roman philosopher and scholar discovered that the earth is round, but people back then were disbelieving, saying “Nah, the earth is flat!”
Wow this is uhhhh... So back in Roman times they used the word 'Nah'?

Pythagoras was insane. Why do you need to square a circle unless you already think the Earth is a sphere? You measure a circle in fourths, which gives you a rational number (4, which represents 90°). Instead, he came up with an irrational number (3.14...etc) because he is an irrational person who thought you can measure a sphere using a triangle.
...Mmmm, scratch that. It was Archimedes of Syracuse who invented pi. :-[ Pythagoras invented that theorem of his. But anyway!

Everything beyond this point was either Freemasonic liars in creepy robes plotting the slow destruction of humanity, or people making stupid mathematical assumptions. You cannot measure the circumference of Earth by using the bad math of old dead people. You are again using math to reinforce assumptions (delusions) you have in your head. Not exploring to see if at any point the ocean actually curves, or just the sky.
Perspective can be divided into quarters not thirds. Which gets us a proper disc with a hemispheric dome overhead. Pi gets us routine failures of tires (known as flats) because the tire is not properly round, unrecognized mistakes made in measuring rotations per minute, and idiots trying to memorize pi to the 200th decimal point.

And btw. The technology they later used (what Wikipedia calls modern technology) was programmed with that assumption. Garbage In, Garbage Out. It's easy to prove RE if you program a computer to never sway from this assumption.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2023, 06:17:59 AM by bulmabriefs144 »




Re: Pics of Another Sunrise Impossible on Flat Earth
« Reply #721 on: October 19, 2023, 06:25:42 AM »

My very first comment, if you bothered to pay attention to the logic of it, debunked your debunking.

Your delusion and lies?

It’s quite simple.

Your lies and delusions haven’t debunked anything.

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The Sun is positioned below the dome of the Firmament, so it moves below the arc in circles above Earth.




So stupid.  Why doesn’t the sun illuminate the bottom of your dome? 24/7? Duh…

Anyway.  The sun would have to turn north after setting in California.  No evidence.

The sun and its radiation are physically blocked by the curvature of the earth to create night. 

The sun wouldn’t set on a flat earth because the sun is too far above the earth in the delusion with the dimensions of the earth too small. 

And.  Again.

If the earth was flat. The sun should still come at you with seemingly very little change in speed for a long time, then seem to speed up and to fly by at a high rate of speed.  Greatly changing in apparent size.

Something like this. 




Which is nothing like reality.



Or this




Where on a flat earth the sun always 300 to 3000 miles above the earth couldn’t illuminate a cloud like this from the bottom. (and seriously, flat earther’s can’t scientifically agree on an actual distance to the sun by now?)




Where the sun stays a constant size as it arcs high into the sky from a earth rotating around its axis as it orbits the sun that is that  center of the solar system.

Where the sun changes very little distance from the viewer. 


Sorry.  No indication a sun 32 miles in diameter orbiting above a flat earth in atmosphere at high speed always relatively above the clouds in the middle of the van Allen belts making a constant right turn illuminating the underside of a dome. 



Re: Pics of Another Sunrise Impossible on Flat Earth
« Reply #722 on: October 19, 2023, 06:42:42 AM »

My very first comment,

For a parabola that doesn’t exist?

Again..

And there is no proof of your delusional parabola.  From radar and laser range finders being accurate.  To how the mist lays.

To how these towers show no distortion from your parabola that has to hide the sunset at three miles…






And not you literally lying about the tower heights and placement.

Your parabola should be acting like a lens and causing these distortions.

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LENS DISTORTION: WHAT EVERY PHOTOGRAPHER SHOULD KNOW

https://clickitupanotch.com/lens-distortion/


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JackBlack

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Re: Pics of Another Sunrise Impossible on Flat Earth
« Reply #723 on: October 19, 2023, 01:34:00 PM »
My very first comment, if you bothered to pay attention to the logic of it, debunked your debunking. You don't bother to understand things, then you pretend they don't exist.
No, it didn't.
It appealed to a magical parabola with no explanation at all, then switch to a bunch of lies to pretend Earth can't be round.

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You can be in denial all you want, but it's a bit like being in a garden with rose-colored glasses. One day you take them off and discover everything is dead around you.
There you go projecting yet again.

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It's about tendency of angles to "roll". I showed an example of this drawing out angles of the sun passing parallel to humans. That is, if an object passes overhead at a level altitude, when it's behind you, you start with like an acute angle, then it becomes right overhead, then as the sun moves across (not away, across, the sun remains at the same distance in altitude), the angle lengthens, causing a lowering effect.
Which has nothing at all to do with your parabola, and cannot make it set.

Again, it truly is simple math.
If Earth was flat, with an object at an altitude of h above your eyes, and moving in a straight line, level line (level in this case would be flat as this hypothetical has a flat Earth), then when it is above a point a distance d away along the Earth, it will appear at an angle of elevation given by atan(h/d).

This will ALWAYS be positive.
It means when overhead it will change in angle quite rapidly, and then as it moves away, that rate of change decreases as it slowly approaches 0, but never actually getting there.
It will ALWAYS appear overhead and it will NEVER appear to set.

If this is what caused the sun to disappear, the sun would appear to slow down as it shrinks to a point and vanishes.
Instead, we observe it continue to move at the same rate as it appears to go into Earth with Earth obstructing the view.

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If you want, I can dig up the picture I used to show exactly that. And then I can draw the line he did in the picture to show you that yes, this is consistent with the theory behind the video.
And I can refute it as a did before.

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if you look around you without the built in assumption that the Earth is round, you see everywhere that it is built on a series of locally flat domes.
No, we don't.
We see that Earth is obviously curved.
It is only if you desperately look at Earth with the desperate need for it to be flat, that you see such nonsense.
You need to invoke domes to hide the fact that Earth is round.
Because a RE is the only way to explain it.

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Actually, that's an accurate depiction. A flat disc with a hemispheric sky dome (*cough* "parabola") above. Wikipedia is trying to tell us that this represents a round Earth?
No, that was the ancient FE model.
The ancient FE model has more in common with the modern RE model than the garbage modern FEers produce.

Do you know a big difference between the ancient FE model and the modern garbage?
In the ancient one, the sun set because it set.
No need to invoke any parabola or BS like that, it went below Earth, with Earth blocking the view to the sun, plunging Earth into darkness until it rose against the next day.
This worked for them because they only dealt with a small area.
They didn't need to explain why it was day in New Zealand while it was night in the United Kingdom.
But the modern FE garbage does.
So the modern FE garbage needs excuses for why if the sun is above Earth it can be seen in NZ but not in the UK.

Likewise, they would have no problem with the issue of the OP.
As the sun is rising, it is coming up from below Earth, so it is coming up from below the clouds.
So it has no problem with casting light upwards.

Likewise, they would have no problem with the sun remaining roughly the same size.
It is tracing out a circular path (one in which the plane of the circle intersects the surface of Earth like the RE model, not one parallel to and above Earth like the modern FE BS) with the sun so far away that the distance to it does not change significantly throughout the period of observation. This also explains why everyone sees it in the same apparent position. (remembering that they are just dealing with a small area)

If you take the current RE model, and take just a small area of Earth, and make a few approximations, and change the centre of the model, you get that ancient FE model.

So if you want to say that is the FE model, then you are saying there is only 1 time zone, the sun rises for the entire disc at once and sets for the entire disc at once.

If instead, you want to discard that ancient FE model and instead have the sun magically stay above Earth the entire time yet magically not be visible for half of Earth, then you introduce massive problems.

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it actually just lists in passing things that are supposed to disprove FE.
No need to try qualifying it with "supposed". They do disprove a FE, and no one has been able to come up with a coherent FE model to explain it.

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Pythagoras was insane. Why do you need to square a circle unless you already think the Earth is a sphere?
To easily determine the area of the circle.
The idea of squaring the circle is to go from a circle to a square with the same area, so you can just measure the side length of the square and multiply it by itself to get the area.

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Instead, he came up with an irrational number (3.14...etc) because he is an irrational person who thought you can measure a sphere using a triangle.
No, they came up with an irrational number, because that is reality.
"irrational" in the sense of a number simply means you can't represent it as a fraction of integers.
There is no rational number for the ratio between a circles diameter and its circumference, or its diameter and its area, or its circumference and its area.

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Everything beyond this point was either Freemasonic liars in creepy robes plotting the slow destruction of humanity, or people making stupid mathematical assumptions.
Or, people trying to explain reality, rather than clinging to your delusional fantasy.

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You cannot measure the circumference of Earth by using the bad math of old dead people.
But we can using the good math of old dead people.

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You are again using math to reinforce assumptions (delusions) you have in your head.
Wrong again. You are fleeing from math to reinforce your own delusions and attempt to escape from reality.

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Not exploring to see if at any point the ocean actually curves, or just the sky.
And we can easily see that the ocean does curve, by observing it obstruct the view to distant objects (especially when we can see and resolve the object but the bottom is missing), when we know that both us and the object are above the water.

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Pi gets us routine failures of tires (known as flats) because the tire is not properly round, unrecognized mistakes made in measuring rotations per minute, and idiots trying to memorize pi to the 200th decimal point.
Flats have nothing at all to do with pi. That is from the tire being punctured.
People failing to understand math and screwing it up is not a failure of pi.

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It's easy to prove RE if you program a computer to never sway from this assumption.
Or if you just honestly look at the world.
And no, you can't just expect a computer to demand Earth is round to make it work.
You can easily model RE vs FE, to show what should be expected, and compare it to reality.
RE matches. FE doesn't.


So again, how does the sun, being ABOVE an object, cast light from BELOW the object?

Re: Pics of Another Sunrise Impossible on Flat Earth
« Reply #724 on: October 19, 2023, 02:08:44 PM »


So again, how does the sun, being ABOVE an object, cast light from BELOW the object?

To gradually illuminate across the bottom of this cloud as seen in this time lapse video.


Re: Pics of Another Sunrise Impossible on Flat Earth
« Reply #725 on: October 19, 2023, 06:12:43 PM »



So again, how does the sun, being ABOVE an object, cast light from BELOW the object?


the light was reflected off the surface.
that's the gist from one of the videos in his name signature (which i repeatedly timestamped to DataF who didn't seem to get what the issue was because he has a listening problem)

Re: Pics of Another Sunrise Impossible on Flat Earth
« Reply #726 on: October 20, 2023, 01:42:56 AM »



So again, how does the sun, being ABOVE an object, cast light from BELOW the object?


the light was reflected off the surface.
that's the gist from one of the videos in his name signature (which i repeatedly timestamped to DataF who didn't seem to get what the issue was because he has a listening problem)

Ok?




And it’s not possible to make an “upward” shadow when the light source is above the object casting the shadow.

Again..

This is really the heart of the matter concerning the shadow.

This makes sense..


This doesn’t make sense




But you fail to answer why the video shows it as per timesramp


The video fails to make its case.

Fails to “explain” the impossible. 


And you only quoted a small portion of my argument.

If you think otherwise.

How far back do I need to move this light source which is taller than the cap until the shadow of the cap is larger than the cap itself?  Please show calculations.

Anyway.

Dragged the light 30 feet back keeping it on the ground.  Had to adjust the head to keep the brightest part of the light on the cap.




Video of dragging the flashlight back on the floor.



Zoomed picture with flashlight at final position.



Cap moved closer to ruler, flashlight still at final position.




Remember the light above the cap needs to produce an extreme upward shadow like this.



So.  For a flat earth with a sun 300 to 3000 miles above the earth.  At what point would the sun be at the right angle to the ground for where I live with hilly ground covered with trees, little valleys for rivers and creeks, fields of dead plants and mud in the winter, fields of green vegetation in the summer, for a duration to cause the illumination across this cloud before the sun is ever above the horizon?



Remember this is time lapse.  How would the reflection off a muddled earth be at the right angle long enough to make this illumination across the cloud with the right color?  Ever before the sun is visible on a flat earth model?




By a sun doing this in its transit across a FE model?




So you have three or four road blocks.

The sun should always be visible on a FE.

How do you get the right angle of reflection for the duration needed before the sun is ever above the horizon.

The ground where I live is too muddled to cause the needed reflection, a reflection that should change colors with the seasons.  Where there are usually reds, oranges, violets, pinks for sunrises throughout the year.


Four these pictures.  What would be the angle of reflection before the sun is above the horizon?





Note.  The sun was still below the horizon. The bright area of the sun is a strong area of illumination on the clouds.

How is the sun at the right angle to cause this cloud to cast a shadow upward during sunrise with ground reflection with considerable cloud cover all the way to the east horizon for a FE model where the sun should always be at an altitude above the clouds. 
« Last Edit: October 20, 2023, 01:45:23 AM by DataOverFlow2022 »

Re: Pics of Another Sunrise Impossible on Flat Earth
« Reply #727 on: October 20, 2023, 03:10:21 AM »
For these pictures?

Where would the sun be reflected from to illuminate the cloud bottom up to make this shadow?  To illuminate the clouds in the upper left hand corner?



Rough outline of the angles needed?  By a sun in the wrong place?  With a dark landscape not conclusive to meaningful reflection?  With to much cloud cover to the sunrise to the horizon east?


Re: Pics of Another Sunrise Impossible on Flat Earth
« Reply #728 on: October 20, 2023, 05:29:45 AM »
Buddy

Youre asking bulma, who doesnt know his own gender, if he knows how triangles work.

in HIS VIDEO, HIS VIDEO proof is that the light reflects off the ground to create the under shadow in the box.

Thats it.
Thats all it is.

But you rhink trying to flood me with your spazz attack is going to me something?

Geez

Re: Pics of Another Sunrise Impossible on Flat Earth
« Reply #729 on: October 20, 2023, 05:56:29 AM »
I actually do know my gender.

My biological sex is male.
Gender is an artificial construct built on expectations of society, and I refuse to give it any mind except out of embarrassment. Thus I know what gender I should be. I just don't care.

But this is a classic tactics of someone losing a debate. Ad hominem is when you attack a person not their ideas.

Yeah that under-shadow thing long since became a failed argument. "Oh look! The Earth must be round because shadow forms upward." (drags a light on a track),
Btw, that same video

shows the fan on the side moving its shadow (start at around 7:33). He never mentions this aloud, but external light causes a fan to "set" as light shifts off of it.




Re: Pics of Another Sunrise Impossible on Flat Earth
« Reply #730 on: October 20, 2023, 06:27:23 AM »
Because you said "gender fluid" to me, meaning it changes like the weather.

But i kid.
I tease.
You be you!
But be you a little smarter please.
Learn about triangles, circles, and civics.


And once again you missed the point.
In this case i was insulting you indirectly.
My main direction was at dataF for being a spazz and not listening to your  actual argument.
Yes
That was the video timestmap i told him to focus up on.
He didnt
Because hes a spaz who doesnt listwn.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2023, 06:28:56 AM by Themightykabool »

Re: Pics of Another Sunrise Impossible on Flat Earth
« Reply #731 on: October 20, 2023, 06:40:44 AM »
I actually do know my gender.

My biological sex is male.
Gender is an artificial construct built on expectations of society, and I refuse to give it any mind except out of embarrassment. Thus I know what gender I should be. I just don't care.

But this is a classic tactics of someone losing a debate. Ad hominem is when you attack a person not their ideas.

Yeah that under-shadow thing long since became a failed argument. "Oh look! The Earth must be round because shadow forms upward." (drags a light on a track),
Btw, that same video

shows the fan on the side moving its shadow (start at around 7:33). He never mentions this aloud, but external light causes a fan to "set" as light shifts off of it.


Which has what do with this real world example from pictures from the opening post (Which is what this thread is actually about) how clouds are casting shadows upwards and how clouds are being illuminated bottom up?

Again..

For these pictures?

Where would the sun be reflected from to illuminate the clouds bottoms up to make these shadows?  To illuminate the clouds as seen in the upper left hand corner of the large area picture?







Rough outline of the angles needed to reflect sunlight off the earth in your delusion for a cloud in this picture to cast a shadow up?  By a sun in the wrong place?  With a dark muddled landscape not conclusive to meaningful reflection?  With too much cloud cover to the sunrise on the eastern horizon. 
« Last Edit: October 20, 2023, 12:51:14 PM by DataOverFlow2022 »

Re: Pics of Another Sunrise Impossible on Flat Earth
« Reply #732 on: October 20, 2023, 08:26:31 AM »

As for the parabola,

Like this?



For a navy ship headed towards the light house on a moon lit night with the moon behind it.

Why is the light of the lighthouse often seen before the lighthouse?

Why does the lighthouse come into view top down?

Why would the radar give an accurate distance to the lighthouse and to the jet farther away than the lighthouse?

What happens to the light of the moon as it travels across the parabola, bounces off the top of the lighthouse back across the parabola as the line of sight to people on the ship? 

Same for the radar as it crosses the parabola bounces off the jet and crosses back across the parabola? 

So, what’s different about the light shining from the light house crossing the parabola only once? 

Or I guess you could also go with running lights, and / or radar, and / or laser sight, and / or radio communications from the jet crossing the parabola only once as witnessed from the ship?

Vs the moonlight and radar crossing the parabola twice? 
« Last Edit: October 20, 2023, 09:31:22 AM by DataOverFlow2022 »

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JackBlack

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Re: Pics of Another Sunrise Impossible on Flat Earth
« Reply #733 on: October 20, 2023, 02:42:44 PM »
Yeah that under-shadow thing long since became a failed argument. "Oh look! The Earth must be round because shadow forms upward." (drags a light on a track),
Wrong again.
That video has been shown to be faulty, for several reasons.
The first is the sheer scales involved. The sun has to move so far away to make the light appear to go "up".
But we also see the cardboard is NOT FLAT!
We see the light cover a portion of the cardboard, and then stop, as if that part of the cardboard is bent up.
It makes no attempt to actually show the angle of the cardboard.

With the distances and heights used, it isn't that hard to have the cardboard at a slight upwards angle to have the sun hit it.

But for the FE model, the sun is never at those distances. So it fails.

shows the fan on the side moving its shadow (start at around 7:33). He never mentions this aloud, but external light causes a fan to "set" as light shifts off of it.
The light causes the shadow of the fan to go down. That has nothing to do with the sun setting.