Post your beliefs.

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Recusant

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Re: Post your beliefs.
« Reply #60 on: November 20, 2008, 05:31:26 PM »
He believes in real things.

Then that's not everything.

Everything that is a thing, that is what I believe in.
An imaginary thing is a thing.
I think he means that he is a materialist.
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Emir Parkreiner

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Re: Post your beliefs.
« Reply #61 on: November 20, 2008, 05:44:38 PM »
Ideas are things, it's difficult to not believe any ideas.

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cmdshft

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Re: Post your beliefs.
« Reply #62 on: November 20, 2008, 05:45:44 PM »
Ideas are things, it's difficult to not believe any ideas.

Again: Materialistic, tangible. Ideas are neither.

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Emir Parkreiner

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Re: Post your beliefs.
« Reply #63 on: November 20, 2008, 05:53:48 PM »
So his statement:
Quote
Everything that is a thing, that is what I believe in.
Was to permissive, he didn't specify material qualities.

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Recusant

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Re: Post your beliefs.
« Reply #64 on: November 20, 2008, 05:57:31 PM »
Cry him a tangible river.
"Philosophy wasn't the same. The school had to be completely changed, but it could be changed because we had learned our lesson."
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cmdshft

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Re: Post your beliefs.
« Reply #65 on: November 20, 2008, 05:57:58 PM »
So his statement:
Quote
Everything that is a thing, that is what I believe in.
Was to permissive, he didn't specify material qualities.

No, a thing having tangible qualities is automatically assumed. It was not overly permissive at all, it was quite clear.

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Emir Parkreiner

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Re: Post your beliefs.
« Reply #66 on: November 20, 2008, 06:19:46 PM »
No, a thing having tangible qualities is automatically assumed.
No.

It was not overly permissive at all, it was quite clear.
No.

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cmdshft

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Re: Post your beliefs.
« Reply #67 on: November 20, 2008, 06:33:49 PM »
No, a thing having tangible qualities is automatically assumed.
No.

It was not overly permissive at all, it was quite clear.
No.

Back it up, otherwise; Wrong.

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Emir Parkreiner

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Re: Post your beliefs.
« Reply #68 on: November 20, 2008, 06:51:23 PM »
Stop fucking saying things then expect me to prove the opposite.

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No, a thing having tangible qualities is automatically assumed.
This isn't assumed, there is no reason to. It's not in the definition of 'thing'.

Quote
It was not overly permissive at all, it was quite clear.
He didn't say anything about materials/objects/physical existence. Thus his statement didn't clarify anything.

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cmdshft

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Re: Post your beliefs.
« Reply #69 on: November 20, 2008, 07:57:19 PM »
He didn't say anything about materials/objects/physical existence. Thus his statement didn't clarify anything.

a thing having tangible qualities is automatically assumed.


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Emir Parkreiner

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Re: Post your beliefs.
« Reply #70 on: November 20, 2008, 08:09:59 PM »

Quote
No, a thing having tangible qualities is automatically assumed.
This isn't assumed, there is no reason to. It's not in the definition of 'thing'.

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Recusant

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Re: Post your beliefs.
« Reply #71 on: November 20, 2008, 08:11:12 PM »
If something can be weighed or measured, it exists.
"Philosophy wasn't the same. The school had to be completely changed, but it could be changed because we had learned our lesson."
- Michelle Vian

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divito the truthist

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Re: Post your beliefs.
« Reply #72 on: November 20, 2008, 09:45:41 PM »
You guys are debating ontology. Frankly, if you think of something, it exists.
Our existentialist, relativist, nihilist, determinist, fascist, eugenicist moderator hath returned.
Quote from: Fortuna
objectively good

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Recusant

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Re: Post your beliefs.
« Reply #73 on: November 20, 2008, 09:48:54 PM »
You guys are debating ontology. Frankly, if you think of something, it exists.
Relatively speaking.
"Philosophy wasn't the same. The school had to be completely changed, but it could be changed because we had learned our lesson."
- Michelle Vian

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divito the truthist

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Re: Post your beliefs.
« Reply #74 on: November 20, 2008, 09:52:30 PM »
Yes.
Our existentialist, relativist, nihilist, determinist, fascist, eugenicist moderator hath returned.
Quote from: Fortuna
objectively good

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cmdshft

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Re: Post your beliefs.
« Reply #75 on: November 20, 2008, 09:57:20 PM »
Yes.

Just because I imagine a ham sandwich in front of me doesn't mean it's actually there. Therefore, it's intangible and not a actual thing.

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divito the truthist

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Re: Post your beliefs.
« Reply #76 on: November 20, 2008, 10:10:28 PM »
Just because I imagine a ham sandwich in front of me doesn't mean it's actually there. Therefore, it's intangible and not a actual thing.

You're taking it too far. Thoughts don't always create a physical reality (as much as it's relative), but thinking of a double-headed dragon makes the dragon exist. That it isn't physically somewhere is irrelevant; plus that doesn't account for those who hallucinate and other such symptoms.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2008, 10:18:43 PM by divito the truthist »
Our existentialist, relativist, nihilist, determinist, fascist, eugenicist moderator hath returned.
Quote from: Fortuna
objectively good

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Wendy

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Re: Post your beliefs.
« Reply #77 on: November 21, 2008, 02:36:02 AM »
Stop fucking saying things then expect me to prove the opposite.

But if you disagree, you have to prove your point. Stop fucking disagreeing with common sense then expect us to believe you wihtout proof.
Here's an explanation for ya. Lurk moar. Every single point you brought up has been posted, reposted, debated and debunked. There is a search function on this forum, and it is very easy to use.

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ﮎingulaЯiτy

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Re: Post your beliefs.
« Reply #78 on: November 21, 2008, 11:21:55 AM »
I believe Almighty God does have countless number of Angels as servents that we can't see them.
Why would he need angel servants? Isn't he omnipotent?
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I believe that Quran is the real words of Allah
Why? Is there a short answer?

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I believe there will be a day of judgement where God will be the judge.
Allah is not the judge now?

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I believe in destiny and fate.
Then how do you believe in free will?
If I was asked to imagine a perfect deity, I would never invent one that suffers from a multiple personality disorder. Christians get points for originality there.

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Moonlit

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Re: Post your beliefs.
« Reply #79 on: November 21, 2008, 11:23:18 AM »
I believe Almighty God does have countless number of Angels as servents that we can't see them.
Why would he need angel servants? Isn't he omnipotent?
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I believe that Quran is the real words of Allah
Why? Is there a short answer?

Quote
I believe there will be a day of judgement where God will be the judge.
Allah is not the judge now?

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I believe in destiny and fate.
Then how do you believe in free will?

You know you're just going to get quotes from the Quran right?
You think that a photograph is indisputable evidence?  Would you like me to show you a photograph of Barack Obama having sex with a gorilla?

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ﮎingulaЯiτy

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Re: Post your beliefs.
« Reply #80 on: November 21, 2008, 11:26:02 AM »
You know you're just going to get quotes from the Quran right?
I'm feeling optimistic today. Hopefully he will have his own answers, and they will actually answer the questions.  :)
If I was asked to imagine a perfect deity, I would never invent one that suffers from a multiple personality disorder. Christians get points for originality there.

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Wendy

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Re: Post your beliefs.
« Reply #81 on: November 21, 2008, 01:51:32 PM »
Actually, the one about free will and destiny being incompatible is a flawed argument. Sure, destiny implies that everything is set in stone, but if you just sit down under a tree and do nothing, nothing's going to happen in your life. Unless your last name is Gautama, but that's another story. Anyway, what I mean is that destiny might just encompass the large things in life, and your free will is you deciding how you get to where your destiny has you going.
Here's an explanation for ya. Lurk moar. Every single point you brought up has been posted, reposted, debated and debunked. There is a search function on this forum, and it is very easy to use.

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Recusant

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Re: Post your beliefs.
« Reply #82 on: November 21, 2008, 07:24:02 PM »
Actually, the one about free will and destiny being incompatible is a flawed argument. Sure, destiny implies that everything is set in stone, but if you just sit down under a tree and do nothing, nothing's going to happen in your life.
Then that is your destiny.
"Philosophy wasn't the same. The school had to be completely changed, but it could be changed because we had learned our lesson."
- Michelle Vian

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Wendy

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Re: Post your beliefs.
« Reply #83 on: November 22, 2008, 04:05:28 AM »
I actually believe that is the destiny of most people. Carry the burden of the world on the backs of the millions, and let the few and exemplary do grand things.
Here's an explanation for ya. Lurk moar. Every single point you brought up has been posted, reposted, debated and debunked. There is a search function on this forum, and it is very easy to use.

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Recusant

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Re: Post your beliefs.
« Reply #84 on: November 22, 2008, 05:06:47 AM »
You know what would be grand? You shortening your fucking signature.
"Philosophy wasn't the same. The school had to be completely changed, but it could be changed because we had learned our lesson."
- Michelle Vian

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Wendy

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Re: Post your beliefs.
« Reply #85 on: November 22, 2008, 05:24:15 AM »
Then I shall do something grand of my life.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2008, 05:48:18 AM by Wendigo »
Here's an explanation for ya. Lurk moar. Every single point you brought up has been posted, reposted, debated and debunked. There is a search function on this forum, and it is very easy to use.

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Emir Parkreiner

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Re: Post your beliefs.
« Reply #86 on: November 22, 2008, 05:44:52 AM »
You know what would be grand? You shortening your fucking signature.
Use adblock.

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PastafarianGuy

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Re: Post your beliefs.
« Reply #87 on: November 23, 2008, 05:45:18 PM »
Shit, I don't know what to really believe.  It's interesting to say what things I would believe in if I take some circumstances to be true, but there is not a thing that I can really be sure about, except for that I have what appear to be memories of experiences and thoughts.  At any given moment, though, no matter what the circumstances that I am assuming at the moment, I hold to my belief that there cannot be a God who came before the (first manifestation of, if there was a first or something) universe. Maybe there could be an organism or organisms that evolved or advanced enough to do some crazy stuff, but if this was so our reality would most likely be very different.  I choose de facto atheism, as Dawkins puts it, because there are so many different possibilities that they all seem highly unlikely, but they are all possible, as unicorns and shit are possible, by which I mean not very.

That saying, "I think therefore I am", is about the only thing anybody can really hold to, and it only works for yourself/myself. FET just seems like more Christian-propagated bullshit to me, because it is pushed forth by a theory that directly conflicts with my views.  Maybe after the fact people try to explain it with science, but these attempts are thinly veiled.
"We must question the story logic of having an all-knowing all-powerful God, who creates faulty Humans, and then blames them for his own mistakes." - Gene Roddenberry

Re: Post your beliefs.
« Reply #88 on: November 23, 2008, 07:20:45 PM »
I'm a Nihilist, Anarcho-Futurist, and a Scientific Naturalist.

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ﮎingulaЯiτy

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Re: Post your beliefs.
« Reply #89 on: November 24, 2008, 06:24:04 AM »
Actually, the one about free will and destiny being incompatible is a flawed argument. Sure, destiny implies that everything is set in stone, but if you just sit down under a tree and do nothing, nothing's going to happen in your life.[...] Anyway, what I mean is that destiny might just encompass the large things in life, and your free will is you deciding how you get to where your destiny has you going.
Fate is a concept derived from the understanding that physics do not deviate. Chemical reactions are predictable if all the information is present. Same with physics.

Biology is built upon these rules and thus so is psychology. We are very complex compositions of matter that follow these rules in all conditions, and we certainly aren't going to break these rules.
...So, if every component of behavior is fixed, why would behavior be chosen? It may appear chosen, but there is little to no room for free will. The only opportunity for free will I can see might stem from QM, assuming that it is a random beyond random. Just because something appears random, doesn't mean it is. Particle physics might just operate on different rules that are always followed.

And even if these random particle behaviors broke us out of a state dependence on large scale physics, we wouldn't have free will as I see it, because our behavior is determined by randomness assigned by QM. We would have to actually control the physics in our brains to establish control over our actions.

The self interest paradigm introduced in another thread actually demonstrates how our actions can be seen as entirely predictable and rational (once again assuming all information is given).

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If we start asserting that part of life is predetermined, we in effect assert that all of life is predetermined, and vice versa. I see no way in which, something is unchangeable and other things are.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2008, 06:25:58 AM by ﮎingulaЯiτy »
If I was asked to imagine a perfect deity, I would never invent one that suffers from a multiple personality disorder. Christians get points for originality there.