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The merged ultimate challenge for FE'ers

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Thork

Re: The ultimate challenge for FE'ers
« Reply #60 on: October 30, 2011, 10:56:10 AM »
I can only reiterate what I have already said, I am not going to keep repeating it because you refuse to accept it. Read my previous posts.
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EmperorZhark

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Re: The ultimate challenge for FE'ers
« Reply #61 on: October 30, 2011, 10:59:32 AM »
Quote from: jraffield1 on October 30, 2011, 10:54:11 AM
Projecting a flat surface onto another flat surface reduced by some proportionality constant (i.e. make it smaller) would preserve all relative distances, areas, and orientations without any distortion whatsoever.

I agree with you. It's such a simple and obvious concept!
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jraffield1

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Re: The ultimate challenge for FE'ers
« Reply #62 on: October 30, 2011, 11:00:51 AM »
Quote from: Thork on October 30, 2011, 10:56:10 AM
I can only reiterate what I have already said, I am not going to keep repeating it because you refuse to accept it. Read my previous posts.

I refuse to accept what you say because you obviously don't know how projections work.
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Quote from: Redhotpengy on December 08, 2011, 04:48:37 PM
You, sir, can't comprehend the idea of bottoms.
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EmperorZhark

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Re: The ultimate challenge for FE'ers
« Reply #63 on: October 30, 2011, 12:00:29 PM »
That's exactly what Thurk keeps on telling me!
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El Cid

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Re: The ultimate challenge for FE'ers
« Reply #64 on: October 30, 2011, 12:36:38 PM »
In RET, the reason a flat map is distorted is because the real world is spherical, which is impossible to flatten out without distorting it.

If the Earth were flat, there would be absolutely no distortion.  Projecting a flat Earth to a flat map will have no distortion.  The distances should all be perfectly accurate, even though they can't be on a globe.  We've measured Australia.  It's a lot bigger than your map shows.

The dimensions beyond the third are tiny and have practically no effect.  Also, they might not exist.
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EmperorZhark

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Re: The ultimate challenge for FE'ers
« Reply #65 on: October 30, 2011, 02:39:48 PM »
So apart from Pizzazplanet and Thurk, everybody agrees.

So back to the challenge.
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PizzaPlanet

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Re: The ultimate challenge for FE'ers
« Reply #66 on: October 30, 2011, 03:24:18 PM »
Quote from: EmperorZhark on October 30, 2011, 08:04:15 AM
Find any FE map large enough to contains all continents, including Antarctica, consistant with the distances given above.
You have already been shown one. What is the point of this? Are you just going to pretend it didn't happen; or perhaps you're going to return to your "no science here" spam?
Quit wasting our time and get to the point.

Quote from: El Cid on October 30, 2011, 12:36:38 PM
If the Earth were flat, there would be absolutely no distortion.
Incorrect. There would be an optical distortion which must be represented on the map. You are fallaciously applying the Euclidean model of geometry, which is known to be faulty, even in RE science.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2011, 03:28:39 PM by PizzaPlanet »
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EmperorZhark

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Re: The ultimate challenge for FE'ers
« Reply #67 on: October 30, 2011, 04:39:50 PM »
Sorry PlanetPizzaz, no new data, no reference to anything remotly scientific.

Come back when you have something relevant.
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momentia

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Re: The ultimate challenge for FE'ers
« Reply #68 on: October 30, 2011, 05:00:35 PM »
Thork, you need to make Australia a bit larger on that map of yours. Right now it doesn't span enough lines of longitude.

Quote from: momentia on September 07, 2011, 01:48:50 PM

According to http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/astronomy.html?n=240 and http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/astronomy.html?n=196,

On september 8th, noon will be 12:15 PM (+8) in Perth, and 11:53 AM (+10) in sydney, meaning that the sunrises are 2 hours 22 minutes apart.
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Thork

Re: The ultimate challenge for FE'ers
« Reply #69 on: October 30, 2011, 05:02:30 PM »
I did not draw any lines of longitude on the map, so it is your observation skills that are at fault, not my map.
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EmperorZhark

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Re: The ultimate challenge for FE'ers
« Reply #70 on: October 30, 2011, 05:04:38 PM »
Both Thork and PlanetPizzaz maps don't work with the challenge.
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El Cid

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Re: The ultimate challenge for FE'ers
« Reply #71 on: October 30, 2011, 05:18:07 PM »
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euclidean_geometry

Generally accepted in mainstream science, not known to be faulty in "RE science," whatever that is.

And I know it says that Einstein diisproved it and all, but this only matters when spacetime is warped, and the warp around Earth is entirely undetected, and completely insignificant.

And I simply don't understand what other system you suggest.  Even if light is distorted, distance isn't distorted.  I would assume your map would show what's really there, not light distortion.

I thought that the weird-looking map was what was there, and bendy light explains the distortion.  This doesn't change distances, which is the problem I'm pointing out.  I don't understand "There would be an optical distortion which must be represented on the map."
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momentia

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Re: The ultimate challenge for FE'ers
« Reply #72 on: October 30, 2011, 05:18:25 PM »
Quote from: Thork on October 30, 2011, 05:02:30 PM
I did not draw any lines of longitude on the map, so it is your observation skills that are at fault, not my map.

Perhaps you should add them?



There are 24 segments, each segment is an hour. Australia crosses 1.5
It should cross at least 2.37
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Tausami

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Re: The ultimate challenge for FE'ers
« Reply #73 on: October 30, 2011, 05:20:16 PM »
Quote from: momentia on October 30, 2011, 05:18:25 PM
Quote from: Thork on October 30, 2011, 05:02:30 PM
I did not draw any lines of longitude on the map, so it is your observation skills that are at fault, not my map.

Perhaps you should add them?



There are 24 segments, each segment is an hour Australia barley crosses 1.5
It should cross at least 2.37

Did you ever consider that you drew them wrong?

@El Cid: no, we don't.
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PizzaPlanet

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Re: The ultimate challenge for FE'ers
« Reply #74 on: October 30, 2011, 05:23:37 PM »
Quote from: PizzaPlanet on October 30, 2011, 03:24:18 PM
or perhaps you're going to return to your "no science here" spam?
Quote from: EmperorZhark on October 30, 2011, 04:39:50 PM
no reference to anything remotly scientific.
Oh, okay.
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markjo

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Re: The ultimate challenge for FE'ers
« Reply #75 on: October 30, 2011, 05:24:28 PM »
Quote from: Tausami on October 30, 2011, 05:20:16 PM
Did you ever consider that you drew them wrong?

Then why don't you draw them correctly?
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PizzaPlanet

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Re: The ultimate challenge for FE'ers
« Reply #76 on: October 30, 2011, 05:26:00 PM »
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EmperorZhark

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Re: The ultimate challenge for FE'ers
« Reply #77 on: October 30, 2011, 05:26:43 PM »
It's pointless, the distances are wrong on this map (take Sydney, Santiago and Capetown).
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Thork

Re: The ultimate challenge for FE'ers
« Reply #78 on: October 30, 2011, 05:27:18 PM »
Quote from: momentia on October 30, 2011, 05:18:25 PM
Quote from: Thork on October 30, 2011, 05:02:30 PM
I did not draw any lines of longitude on the map, so it is your observation skills that are at fault, not my map.

Perhaps you should add them?



There are 24 segments, each segment is an hour. Australia crosses 1.5
It should cross at least 2.37
My God, those angles are all over the place. The segments aren't even sized.
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PizzaPlanet

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Re: The ultimate challenge for FE'ers
« Reply #79 on: October 30, 2011, 05:29:33 PM »
Quote from: EmperorZhark on October 30, 2011, 05:26:43 PM
It's pointless, the distances are wrong on this map (take Sydney, Santiago and Capetown).
Incorrect.
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El Cid

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Re: The ultimate challenge for FE'ers
« Reply #80 on: October 30, 2011, 05:31:12 PM »
Quote from: PizzaPlanet on October 30, 2011, 05:29:33 PM
Quote from: EmperorZhark on October 30, 2011, 05:26:43 PM
It's pointless, the distances are wrong on this map (take Sydney, Santiago and Capetown).
Incorrect.
Let me fix that: Correct.
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EmperorZhark

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Re: The ultimate challenge for FE'ers
« Reply #81 on: October 30, 2011, 05:32:22 PM »
Quote from: PizzaPlanet on October 30, 2011, 05:29:33 PM
Quote from: EmperorZhark on October 30, 2011, 05:26:43 PM
It's pointless, the distances are wrong on this map (take Sydney, Santiago and Capetown).
Incorrect.

Use a ruler and place it on the image on your screen. Or just go away.
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PizzaPlanet

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Re: The ultimate challenge for FE'ers
« Reply #82 on: October 30, 2011, 05:34:23 PM »
Quote from: El Cid on October 30, 2011, 05:31:12 PM
Let me fix that: Correct.
Only if you make assumptions that imply the Earth's rotundity. Such assumptions would constitute a petitio principii, and would definitely not help your questions to be answered.
However, if your only point is to feel that you're so right and that you told those pesky FE'ers, proceed. We'll just end in a stalemate, both deeply convinced that we've "won".

Quote from: EmperorZhark on October 30, 2011, 05:32:22 PM
Use a ruler and place it on the image on your screen. Or just go away.
Are you a bot? We've already talked about that here. If rulers are so great, please use one on a globe and on a Mercator map.
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EmperorZhark

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Re: The ultimate challenge for FE'ers
« Reply #83 on: October 30, 2011, 05:35:58 PM »
The topic is about map and FE map.

Apparently you don't know how to use a ruler on a flat surface.
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PizzaPlanet

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Re: The ultimate challenge for FE'ers
« Reply #84 on: October 30, 2011, 05:39:10 PM »
Quote from: EmperorZhark on October 30, 2011, 05:35:58 PM
The topic is about map and FE map.
Oh, so if a "flaw" "applies" to an FE map, that's terrible, but if it applies to RE, it's fine and not important at all? Interesting, interesting.

Quote from: EmperorZhark on October 30, 2011, 05:35:58 PM
Apparently you don't know how to use a ruler on a flat surface.
I am sure you think this is relevant to the subject, but it's not. A Mercator map is perfectly flat, and yet your experiment fails for it.
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EmperorZhark

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Re: The ultimate challenge for FE'ers
« Reply #85 on: October 30, 2011, 05:42:00 PM »
Unless you come back with scientific evidence with you, no need to spam again with your lack of understanding.
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momentia

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Re: The ultimate challenge for FE'ers
« Reply #86 on: October 30, 2011, 05:42:47 PM »
Quote from: Thork on October 30, 2011, 05:27:18 PM
Quote from: momentia on October 30, 2011, 05:18:25 PM
Quote from: Thork on October 30, 2011, 05:02:30 PM
I did not draw any lines of longitude on the map, so it is your observation skills that are at fault, not my map.

Perhaps you should add them?



There are 24 segments, each segment is an hour. Australia crosses 1.5
It should cross at least 2.37
My God, those angles are all over the place. The segments aren't even sized.

Incorrect.
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PizzaPlanet

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Re: The ultimate challenge for FE'ers
« Reply #87 on: October 30, 2011, 05:43:35 PM »
Quote from: EmperorZhark on October 30, 2011, 05:42:00 PM
Unless you come back with scientific evidence with you, no need to spam again with your lack of understanding.
As I have already explained to you (wow, talk about lack of understanding), if you'd like to call someone wrong, you need to explain why. Otherwise, it's nothing but a cheap escape strategy.
Also, why would I provide scientific evidence for the fact that Mercator distances don't work, when you yourself have agreed with it in this thread?
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EmperorZhark

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Re: The ultimate challenge for FE'ers
« Reply #88 on: October 30, 2011, 05:46:05 PM »
Since some people here don't understand the challenge, here it is again:


Using this:

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0759496.html

Or any reliable source on distances between cities,

Find any FE map large enough to contains all continents, including Antarctica, consistant with the distances given above.
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PizzaPlanet

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Re: The ultimate challenge for FE'ers
« Reply #89 on: October 30, 2011, 05:46:47 PM »
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