Is Political Correct language 'Newspeak'?

  • 71 Replies
  • 6117 Views
*

Rayzor

  • 12111
  • Looking for Occam
Re: Is Political Correct language 'Newspeak'?
« Reply #60 on: September 12, 2020, 11:36:40 PM »

There's a whole lot more to it than being inclusive and socially acceptable.

Not really no.  Sounds like you want to talk about something other than the topic of politically correct language. 

There’s no PC agenda to try to make people into something they aren’t.  The exact opposite in fact.

If you believe it’s OK for someone to be different, then you basically agree with the fundamental point of the “PC Brigade”.

Yes, really. I want to talk about how you can be fined $10,000 for liking an un PC post. I want to talk about how the lefty dudes are perfectly fine endangering women, because to do otherwise would hurt someone's feelings. I want to talk about how you won't even look into a 4,000% increase of mostly girls claiming gender dysphoria because that wouldn't be PC.

I am not aware of a PC agenda to make people into what they already are.

It is not PC to be critical of sterilizing children. It is not PC to refuse to participate in men's fetishes. It is not PC to say that there are only two sexes. It has nothing to do with believing it is okay for people to be different. There's nothing wrong with being different (I don't know who you're calling the PC Brigade, the enforcers of PC or the resisters of PC?).  Wear what you want, wear a shitty diaper for all I care, just don't expect me to think you are an actual baby.

People are being fired, threatened with death and rape, their children are being threatened with death and rape, all for expressing these un PC opinions. It doesn't matter how polite they are, how reasonable they are, how willing to have a conversation they are. It's believe or else. People like you, who have nothing to lose, look the other way.

What?

Endangering women, men’s fetishes, sterilizing children, death and rape threats?  These things are not PC.  Are you sure you’re not talking about random arseholes on the internet?  Because there’s plenty of all that from the right too.

This is what political correctness means:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_correctness

It’s anti-racism, anti-sexism, anti- homophobia, anti-transphobia, etc.

It’s about accepting people for who they are, not making people who they are (which makes no sense).

I’ve not ignored your point about an increase in Gender dysphoria.  I already said that this is most likely due to people feeling free to talk about something that has previously been generally seen as abnormal.  There were probably just as many in the closest before trying to repress what they felt.

If you really want to discuss these things (getting pretty off topic), a gish gallop of vague unreferenced claims is not the way to do it.

Also, people like me?  Really?  Who am I then?

I know what political correctness is. At this point, I think you are pretending to not understand what I am saying because it wouldn't be politically correct to do so.

No I fucking am not.  I can’t read your mind, I don’t know what you’ve been reading about political correctness or whether your sources are accurate or just inflammatory bullshit.

You listed a bunch of vague allegations about political correctness, giving me no chance to corroborate any of them.  Let’s start with this one:

“how the lefty dudes are perfectly fine endangering women“

How exactly?  As a “lefty dude“, I’d like to know why you think I’m fine  with endangering women?

Jesus Christ!  You’re throwing this insult at me without explaining what the hell you’re even talking about.  So come on, out with it!

As for pretending not to understand, that’s hilarious.  You saw the detail of my replies to Shifter (about the actual topic), but you “snipped our” all of that because you wanted to focus on one small part.  So don’t give that crap about trying to avoid anything.

I posted some links you could have read, but I will give you some more.

Most lefty dudes defend trans women playing against women in sports. The science does not support the notion that cross sex hormones significantly reduce the male advantage https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/jul/19/transwomen-face-potential-womens-rugby-ban-over-safety-concerns  The women fighting to maintain single sex sport are considered TERFs (whether they are feminist or not).  It is not politically correct to talk about the male advantage in sports if the male in question identifies as a woman.

Once labeled a TERF this type of abuse is seen as acceptable, even justified https://terfisaslur.com/

You continue to claim that a 4000% increase (mostly girls) is down to societal acceptance, without considering the reasons girls might have to begin hating their bodies once they near puberty. The average age a kid is first exposed to porn is about 11. There is also social contagion to consider, girls are more susceptible to social contagion. It is not politically correct to study social contagion https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2018/08/new-paper-ignites-storm-over-whether-teens-experience-rapid-onset-transgender-identity This 4000% increase is not in children who think they're in the wrong body from 3 or 4 yrs old, it's kids at the beginning of puberty. It is not politically correct for clinicians to try to help young people feel comfortable in their own bodies before moving on to more permanent procedures. Dr Ken Zucker was fired for not adopting affirmative care, because he knows that about 80% of young people with gender dysphoria will grow out of it if allowed to proceed with their natural puberty. https://www.thecut.com/2016/02/fight-over-trans-kids-got-a-researcher-fired.html  Zucker sued CAMH and won https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/camh-settlement-former-head-gender-identity-clinic-1.4854015, but his clinic was still shut down, and the affirmation only approach is now the norm everywhere because it is politically incorrect to think that some kids might grow out of their gender dysphoria. I've tried to stick to sources that are acceptable to the left, but they tend not to write articles that will piss off the woke, so sorry for this Federalist article. It is well sourced with links to studies https://thefederalist.com/2018/09/12/u-s-doctors-performing-double-mastectomies-healthy-13-year-old-girls/ 

That's probably enough for one post. I hope you read some of the articles.

The attacks on people labelled as TERF is suspiciously misogynist,   I wonder if the attacks are really coming from trans?   
Stop gilding the pickle, you demisexual aromantic homoflexible snowflake.

Re: Is Political Correct language 'Newspeak'?
« Reply #61 on: September 13, 2020, 03:55:03 AM »

I posted some links you could have read, but I will give you some more.

I did read your earlier links, but you added a lot more about what you apparently think political correctness means, and what the left generally believe.  Thanks for giving me something to work with anyway.  Let’s get started:

Quote
Most lefty dudes defend trans women playing against women in sports. The science does not support the notion that cross sex hormones significantly reduce the male advantage https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/jul/19/transwomen-face-potential-womens-rugby-ban-over-safety-concerns 

I’m not sure what lefty dudes you’re been talking to, if any, but I don’t know any who would say that trans woman should play women’s sport regardless of the impact on the sport, fairness and certainly not compromising safety.

The article says that world rugby is changing the criteria for trans women to play in light of new evidence over safety.  That’s absolutely right, IMO, and the lefty paper Guardian doesn’t suggest overwise either.  It’s political correctness gone... very sensible apparently.

Quote
The women fighting to maintain single sex sport are considered TERFs (whether they are feminist or not).  It is not politically correct to talk about the male advantage in sports if the male in question identifies as a woman.

Once labeled a TERF this type of abuse is seen as acceptable, even justified https://terfisaslur.com/

No that kind of abuse is never acceptable.  It’s not acceptable to the left in general, and it’s certainly not PC.

These people are arseholes.  Some men are arseholes, some women are arseholes and some trans people are arseholes.  Being an arsehole is one thing at least that’s always been equal opportunity.

I’m afraid there’s always been some conflict between some of the L and some of the T in the LGBT community.  Now there’s similar shit between some feminists and trans activists, and as always the loudest voices picking fights get the most attention. 

It’s also quite likely that some are just trolls who are deliberately stirring shit up.

Clearly there’s issues where women’s rights and trans rights have to carefully weighed, but they don’t seem insurmountable.  Time to end hostilities and work this all out.  They should be on the same side.

Quote
You continue to claim that a 4000% increase (mostly girls) is down to societal acceptance, without considering the reasons girls might have to begin hating their bodies once they near puberty. The average age a kid is first exposed to porn is about 11.

Because of puberty probably.  Isn’t  that when you’d except them to start thinking about these things?  And since when has porn been a PC thing?

Quote
There is also social contagion to consider, girls are more susceptible to social contagion. It is not politically correct to study social contagion https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2018/08/new-paper-ignites-storm-over-whether-teens-experience-rapid-onset-transgender-identity

The article you said there were questions about the methodology.  Specifically that they only interviewed parents, and those interviews were from advertising on websites for patents already concerned.  As the editor said:

On Monday, PLOS ONE announced it is conducting a postpublication investigation of the study’s methodology and analysis. “This is not about suppressing academic freedom or scientific research. This is about the scientific content itself—whether there is anything that needs to be looked into or corrected,” PLOS ONE Editor-in-Chief Joerg Heber in San Francisco, California, told ScienceInsider in an interview yesterday.

The obvious question here is whether the dysphoria really had a “rapid onset”, on whether the parents only became aware of it suddenly?

Quote
This 4000% increase is not in children who think they're in the wrong body from 3 or 4 yrs old, it's kids at the beginning of puberty.

Would you think it more normal for children of 3 or 4 to be worrying about all this?

Quote
It is not politically correct for clinicians to try to help young people feel comfortable in their own bodies before moving on to more permanent procedures. Dr Ken Zucker was fired for not adopting affirmative care, because he knows that about 80% of young people with gender dysphoria will grow out of it if allowed to proceed with their natural puberty. https://www.thecut.com/2016/02/fight-over-trans-kids-got-a-researcher-fired.html  Zucker sued CAMH and won https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/camh-settlement-former-head-gender-identity-clinic-1.4854015, but his clinic was still shut down, and the affirmation only approach is now the norm everywhere because it is politically incorrect to think that some kids might grow out of their gender dysphoria.

The article says he was fired over a specific allegation of inappropriate conduct.  Sounds like a disgruntled patient got him fired, not political correctness.  Possibly with some particularly hardcore trans activists, who I doubt represent the trans community in general.

Quote
I've tried to stick to sources that are acceptable to the left, but they tend not to write articles that will piss off the woke, so sorry for this Federalist article. It is well sourced with links to studies https://thefederalist.com/2018/09/12/u-s-doctors-performing-double-mastectomies-healthy-13-year-old-girls/ 

As I said before, I’m also very concerned about this.  There needs to be much more rigorous screening to make sure it’s really the right thing for them. 

Personally I think it might be better to live in your body a bit before changing it.  Wait a few years then try going out, getting drunk, getting laid, etc.  before deciding.  Although I understand it’s not quite that simple.     

Quote
That's probably enough for one post. I hope you read some of the articles.

Yeah, but it’s interesting that this all about trans activism.  Trans rights are only a part of the whole political correctness thing, and activism is really a step further than that. 

Just as you can be PC without being a militant feminist.  Which was what many people (mostly men) used to complain about it, of course.

So what about all the other stuff?

*

Space Cowgirl

  • MOM
  • Administrator
  • 49888
  • Official FE Recruiter
Re: Is Political Correct language 'Newspeak'?
« Reply #62 on: September 13, 2020, 09:09:59 AM »
Where political correctness comes into all of that, is that it is seen as not politically correct to have a discussion about it at all. They don't want the studies, they don't want the conversations, they think it's all transphobic. No matter how serious, thoughtful, polite, and informed you are. The collection of threats in the terfisaslur link are to women trying to have these conversations on social media. They weren't harassing anyone, they were talking amongst themselves, or tweeting at politicians regarding safeguarding in various areas.

To answer this question - "Would you think it more normal for children of 3 or 4 to be worrying about all this?"

There is a criteria (the one Dr Zucker used) called persistent, insistent, and consistent (possible not in that order) used to help determine if a child really is trans or not. Many kids (mostly male) who grow up to be transsexual have felt that way since 3 or 4 years old.  It's not "normal" in the sense that it happens a lot, but it seems to be normal for HSTS trans women, and a few trans men. ROGD (in females) happens without warning, usually at the start of puberty.

I did not say that porn was a PC thing. It was in reference to the 4000% increase. The exposure to violent porn at such a young age may be a contributing factor in the increase in girls identifying as boys at the start of puberty. Puberty already sucks, but add the idea that you will be subjected to that kind of abuse, it could fuck your mind up.

I agree that trans activism is only a small part of PC, but it's the one in our faces right now. It's the one with the power to get people fired, harassed, cancelled, etc. It's the one women are most concerned about right now because we're the ones expected to move over. The rugby ruling is welcome, but there are still girls expected to compete against boys (who identify as girls) for sports scholarships. There are still girls expected to share locker rooms with boys, etc.

I don't know what all other stuff you are referring to. If you want my opinion on other stuff, I will gladly give it, but our interaction has been long and I get sidetracked answering specific things and then I don't remember other stuff... then I think am I repeating myself? lol So just ask about something specific and I'll reply.
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

*

Wolvaccine

  • EXTRA SPICY MODE
  • 25833
Re: Is Political Correct language 'Newspeak'?
« Reply #63 on: September 15, 2020, 03:16:42 AM »
https://nypost.com/2020/09/14/is-jk-rowling-dead-heres-why-ripjkrowling-is-trending-on-twitter/?_ga=2.71171728.1892023480.1600117704-1471279213.1595477934

You are apparently not allowed to even write a fictional story that portrays a trans persons as an antagonist.

Quote from: sokarul
what website did you use to buy your wife? Did you choose Chinese over Russian because she can't open her eyes to see you?

What animal relates to your wife?

Know your place

Re: Is Political Correct language 'Newspeak'?
« Reply #64 on: September 15, 2020, 04:05:30 AM »
https://nypost.com/2020/09/14/is-jk-rowling-dead-heres-why-ripjkrowling-is-trending-on-twitter/?_ga=2.71171728.1892023480.1600117704-1471279213.1595477934

You are apparently not allowed to even write a fictional story that portrays a trans persons as an antagonist.
Well, you are allowed to write fictional story that portrays a trans persons as an antagonist.  Clearly she has just done that.
Quote from: mikeman7918
a single photon can pass through two sluts

Quote from: Chicken Fried Clucker
if Donald Trump stuck his penis in me after trying on clothes I would have that date and time burned in my head.

*

Wolvaccine

  • EXTRA SPICY MODE
  • 25833
Re: Is Political Correct language 'Newspeak'?
« Reply #65 on: September 15, 2020, 04:42:24 AM »
https://nypost.com/2020/09/14/is-jk-rowling-dead-heres-why-ripjkrowling-is-trending-on-twitter/?_ga=2.71171728.1892023480.1600117704-1471279213.1595477934

You are apparently not allowed to even write a fictional story that portrays a trans persons as an antagonist.
Well, you are allowed to write fictional story that portrays a trans persons as an antagonist.  Clearly she has just done that.

Well yes if you take it literally for now while the powers that be allow it. But in doing so you may end up with a shitload of rape and death threats as well as calls that essentially destroy your career and livelihood

Just because you can say something, doesn't mean you are 'free' to say it

If these trans-activists had their way, it most certainly would not be allowed.

Quote from: sokarul
what website did you use to buy your wife? Did you choose Chinese over Russian because she can't open her eyes to see you?

What animal relates to your wife?

Know your place

*

Space Cowgirl

  • MOM
  • Administrator
  • 49888
  • Official FE Recruiter
Re: Is Political Correct language 'Newspeak'?
« Reply #66 on: September 15, 2020, 09:17:39 AM »
All the crying over her new book is making it a bestseller. The weird thing is that they are saying it is transphobic, when the possible murderer has been described as a "cis man" who dresses like a woman.

Her new book isn't the weirdest story about her this week. A couple people in Vancouver put up a billboard that just said "I (heart emoji) JK Rowling". A Vancouver city councilor declared it hate speech and had the billboard company take it down. https://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/controversial-billboard-tribute-to-jk-rowling-in-east-vancouver-taken-down  Of all the things we've talked about in this thread, this one seems the most Orwellian.  Love is hate!

I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

Re: Is Political Correct language 'Newspeak'?
« Reply #67 on: September 15, 2020, 09:38:23 AM »
Shit is getting weird.

It's just amazing how a liberal, super famous, children's author became a byword for "transphobia".  Her very name is now "hate speech" in some quarters, it seems.

Mainstream campaigning groups really need to get a handle on this and stop letting the extremists have their way.  It's been tearing apart Stonewall, our oldest LGB (now LGBT+) rights organisation recently. 
Quote from: mikeman7918
a single photon can pass through two sluts

Quote from: Chicken Fried Clucker
if Donald Trump stuck his penis in me after trying on clothes I would have that date and time burned in my head.

*

Space Cowgirl

  • MOM
  • Administrator
  • 49888
  • Official FE Recruiter
Re: Is Political Correct language 'Newspeak'?
« Reply #68 on: September 15, 2020, 09:56:33 AM »
Have you read the essay she wrote a couple months ago on the subject? The usual suspects accused her of "transphobic dog whistles", PZ Myers blogged about it but said he could only get through the first sentence of her "transphobic screed" (how does he know it's a screed if he didn't read it?). Twitter went nuts, as usual. It's a very long essay, but there's nothing transphobic in it. https://www.jkrowling.com/opinions/j-k-rowling-writes-about-her-reasons-for-speaking-out-on-sex-and-gender-issues/ 
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

Re: Is Political Correct language 'Newspeak'?
« Reply #69 on: September 15, 2020, 03:08:11 PM »
It's kinda weird that you only focus on trans stuff.

*

Space Cowgirl

  • MOM
  • Administrator
  • 49888
  • Official FE Recruiter
Re: Is Political Correct language 'Newspeak'?
« Reply #70 on: September 15, 2020, 03:19:17 PM »
It's kinda weird you don't understand why.
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

Re: Is Political Correct language 'Newspeak'?
« Reply #71 on: September 16, 2020, 01:24:21 AM »
Have you read the essay she wrote a couple months ago on the subject? The usual suspects accused her of "transphobic dog whistles", PZ Myers blogged about it but said he could only get through the first sentence of her "transphobic screed" (how does he know it's a screed if he didn't read it?). Twitter went nuts, as usual. It's a very long essay, but there's nothing transphobic in it. https://www.jkrowling.com/opinions/j-k-rowling-writes-about-her-reasons-for-speaking-out-on-sex-and-gender-issues/
Like most people, I read about it, rather than reading it.
Quote from: mikeman7918
a single photon can pass through two sluts

Quote from: Chicken Fried Clucker
if Donald Trump stuck his penis in me after trying on clothes I would have that date and time burned in my head.