So I guess Buzz Aldrin is still brainwashed

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sceptimatic

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Re: So I guess Buzz Aldrin is still brainwashed
« Reply #540 on: September 30, 2014, 03:19:09 AM »
So what is the prime function of the telescope?
I'll take this at face value.
The prime function is to magnify the images of distant objects.
Thank you. So in effect it is a magnifying glass, correct?

No.
Yes.

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mathsman

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Re: So I guess Buzz Aldrin is still brainwashed
« Reply #541 on: September 30, 2014, 03:35:52 AM »
So what is the prime function of the telescope?
I'll take this at face value.
The prime function is to magnify the images of distant objects.
Thank you. So in effect it is a magnifying glass, correct?

No.
Yes.

No. A magnifying glass cannot magnify distant objects. I have a magnifying glass on my desk right now, it can't even magnify my office wall from a distance of 8 feet. It can, however magnify things at a distance of a few (very few) inches and at very modest magnification.

A telescope would be useless at magnifying the page of a book, or magnifying the images of bacteria.
A microscope would be useless at magnifying distant objects but it's great at magnifying bacteria with considerable magnification.

To say a telescope is in effect a magnifying glass is show an ignorance of what even a magnifying glass does. 

Re: So I guess Buzz Aldrin is still brainwashed
« Reply #542 on: September 30, 2014, 04:04:52 AM »
Scepti does love to try and lead us up the garden path with his bullshit...unfortunately the path usually leads nowhere.
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sceptimatic

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Re: So I guess Buzz Aldrin is still brainwashed
« Reply #543 on: September 30, 2014, 04:13:56 AM »
So what is the prime function of the telescope?
I'll take this at face value.
The prime function is to magnify the images of distant objects.
Thank you. So in effect it is a magnifying glass, correct?

No.
Yes.

No. A magnifying glass cannot magnify distant objects. I have a magnifying glass on my desk right now, it can't even magnify my office wall from a distance of 8 feet. It can, however magnify things at a distance of a few (very few) inches and at very modest magnification.

A telescope would be useless at magnifying the page of a book, or magnifying the images of bacteria.
A microscope would be useless at magnifying distant objects but it's great at magnifying bacteria with considerable magnification.

To say a telescope is in effect a magnifying glass is show an ignorance of what even a magnifying glass does.
It doesn't matter what distance. Any glass that can magnify at any distance is in effect a magnifying glass.

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sceptimatic

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Re: So I guess Buzz Aldrin is still brainwashed
« Reply #544 on: September 30, 2014, 04:16:03 AM »
Scepti does love to try and lead us up the garden path with his bullshit...unfortunately the path usually leads nowhere.
The very same path that all of you lead people. Into no mans land. Attempts at putting inquisitive people to sleep.
The game can be played by all parties, crabby.  ;D

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mathsman

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Re: So I guess Buzz Aldrin is still brainwashed
« Reply #545 on: September 30, 2014, 04:53:01 AM »
It doesn't matter what distance. Any glass that can magnify at any distance is in effect a magnifying glass.

Unfortunately a telescope isn't a glass. Sometimes the magnifying parts are mirrors. And it does matter what distance. Microscopes, magnifying glasses, spectacles, binoculars, telescopes, cameras etc can all have magnifying properties but they are not 'in effect' the same thing. Each is designed to operate under different circumstances. You're just being deliberately obtuse.

Re: So I guess Buzz Aldrin is still brainwashed
« Reply #546 on: September 30, 2014, 04:56:08 AM »
It doesn't matter what distance. Any glass that can magnify at any distance is in effect a magnifying glass.
No.  That's why they are called different things, because they have different functions.

If you go to the opticians they are not going to fit you with a telescope.

Anyway, what is the point of this digression?
Quote from: mikeman7918
a single photon can pass through two sluts

Quote from: Chicken Fried Clucker
if Donald Trump stuck his penis in me after trying on clothes I would have that date and time burned in my head.

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mathsman

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Re: So I guess Buzz Aldrin is still brainwashed
« Reply #547 on: September 30, 2014, 05:05:05 AM »
It doesn't matter what distance. Any glass that can magnify at any distance is in effect a magnifying glass.
No.  That's why they are called different things, because they have different functions.

If you go to the opticians they are not going to fit you with a telescope.

Anyway, what is the point of this digression?

Because Buzz Aldrin doesn't know what a telescope is even though his wife bought him one for his birthday.

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sceptimatic

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Re: So I guess Buzz Aldrin is still brainwashed
« Reply #548 on: September 30, 2014, 05:19:04 AM »
It doesn't matter what distance. Any glass that can magnify at any distance is in effect a magnifying glass.

Unfortunately a telescope isn't a glass. Sometimes the magnifying parts are mirrors. And it does matter what distance. Microscopes, magnifying glasses, spectacles, binoculars, telescopes, cameras etc can all have magnifying properties but they are not 'in effect' the same thing. Each is designed to operate under different circumstances. You're just being deliberately obtuse.
I'm not bothered what they are designed for, they perform the function of magnification. 

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sceptimatic

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Re: So I guess Buzz Aldrin is still brainwashed
« Reply #549 on: September 30, 2014, 05:20:29 AM »
It doesn't matter what distance. Any glass that can magnify at any distance is in effect a magnifying glass.
No.  That's why they are called different things, because they have different functions.

If you go to the opticians they are not going to fit you with a telescope.

Anyway, what is the point of this digression?
There is no point. The poster who decided to turn it into this seemed to be trying to make a point from a tongue in cheek post, so I went with it.

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sceptimatic

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Re: So I guess Buzz Aldrin is still brainwashed
« Reply #550 on: September 30, 2014, 05:21:39 AM »
It doesn't matter what distance. Any glass that can magnify at any distance is in effect a magnifying glass.
No.  That's why they are called different things, because they have different functions.

If you go to the opticians they are not going to fit you with a telescope.

Anyway, what is the point of this digression?

Because Buzz Aldrin doesn't know what a telescope is even though his wife bought him one for his birthday.
That's probably not too far from the truth because he doesn't know what a real astronaut is, either.

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blnjms

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Re: So I guess Buzz Aldrin is still brainwashed
« Reply #551 on: September 30, 2014, 07:47:15 AM »
It doesn't matter what distance. Any glass that can magnify at any distance is in effect a magnifying glass.

Unfortunately a telescope isn't a glass. Sometimes the magnifying parts are mirrors. And it does matter what distance. Microscopes, magnifying glasses, spectacles, binoculars, telescopes, cameras etc can all have magnifying properties but they are not 'in effect' the same thing. Each is designed to operate under different circumstances. You're just being deliberately obtuse.
I'm not bothered what they are designed for, they perform the function of magnification.

Skepti, as a former optician, I think that this is the most logical thing I've seen from you. YES, regardless of the distance used and the arrangement of lenses and possibly mirrors (in the case of telescopes), both magnifying glasses AND telescopes MAGNIFY what is in front of them. Wow, Skepti, you have a brain! Now use it more for the larger arguments presented here.

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BJ1234

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Re: So I guess Buzz Aldrin is still brainwashed
« Reply #552 on: September 30, 2014, 07:56:59 AM »
It doesn't matter what distance. Any glass that can magnify at any distance is in effect a magnifying glass.

Unfortunately a telescope isn't a glass. Sometimes the magnifying parts are mirrors. And it does matter what distance. Microscopes, magnifying glasses, spectacles, binoculars, telescopes, cameras etc can all have magnifying properties but they are not 'in effect' the same thing. Each is designed to operate under different circumstances. You're just being deliberately obtuse.
I'm not bothered what they are designed for, they perform the function of magnification.
So if someone told you a motorcycle is the same thing as a car, you would be OK with that?  Since you know they perform the function of driving on a street...  Great argument scepti... ::)

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sceptimatic

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Re: So I guess Buzz Aldrin is still brainwashed
« Reply #553 on: September 30, 2014, 08:12:28 AM »
It doesn't matter what distance. Any glass that can magnify at any distance is in effect a magnifying glass.

Unfortunately a telescope isn't a glass. Sometimes the magnifying parts are mirrors. And it does matter what distance. Microscopes, magnifying glasses, spectacles, binoculars, telescopes, cameras etc can all have magnifying properties but they are not 'in effect' the same thing. Each is designed to operate under different circumstances. You're just being deliberately obtuse.
I'm not bothered what they are designed for, they perform the function of magnification.
So if someone told you a motorcycle is the same thing as a car, you would be OK with that?  Since you know they perform the function of driving on a street...  Great argument scepti... ::)
It's about the function. I never said a magnifying glass was anything specific. I said a magnifying glass performs the function of magnification. The magnifying glass can be used in many optical objects ranging from microscopes to what we all know as a hand held magnifying glass, to a telescope, etc.
That's all my point is.

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sceptimatic

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Re: So I guess Buzz Aldrin is still brainwashed
« Reply #554 on: September 30, 2014, 08:14:55 AM »
It doesn't matter what distance. Any glass that can magnify at any distance is in effect a magnifying glass.

Unfortunately a telescope isn't a glass. Sometimes the magnifying parts are mirrors. And it does matter what distance. Microscopes, magnifying glasses, spectacles, binoculars, telescopes, cameras etc can all have magnifying properties but they are not 'in effect' the same thing. Each is designed to operate under different circumstances. You're just being deliberately obtuse.
I'm not bothered what they are designed for, they perform the function of magnification.

Skepti, as a former optician, I think that this is the most logical thing I've seen from you. YES, regardless of the distance used and the arrangement of lenses and possibly mirrors (in the case of telescopes), both magnifying glasses AND telescopes MAGNIFY what is in front of them. Wow, Skepti, you have a brain! Now use it more for the larger arguments presented here.
Here's a little tip. If you attempt to take the piss, I will play it back. If you come here for a bit of chat and debate, regardless of whether you think something is right or not, just go with it. Trying to appear smart by slinging silly digs in will cause me to laugh at you and overlook your posts. Learn from that and you'll be fine.  :P

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blnjms

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Re: So I guess Buzz Aldrin is still brainwashed
« Reply #555 on: September 30, 2014, 08:31:23 AM »
It doesn't matter what distance. Any glass that can magnify at any distance is in effect a magnifying glass.

Unfortunately a telescope isn't a glass. Sometimes the magnifying parts are mirrors. And it does matter what distance. Microscopes, magnifying glasses, spectacles, binoculars, telescopes, cameras etc can all have magnifying properties but they are not 'in effect' the same thing. Each is designed to operate under different circumstances. You're just being deliberately obtuse.
I'm not bothered what they are designed for, they perform the function of magnification.

Skepti, as a former optician, I think that this is the most logical thing I've seen from you. YES, regardless of the distance used and the arrangement of lenses and possibly mirrors (in the case of telescopes), both magnifying glasses AND telescopes MAGNIFY what is in front of them. Wow, Skepti, you have a brain! Now use it more for the larger arguments presented here.
Here's a little tip. If you attempt to take the piss, I will play it back. If you come here for a bit of chat and debate, regardless of whether you think something is right or not, just go with it. Trying to appear smart by slinging silly digs in will cause me to laugh at you and overlook your posts. Learn from that and you'll be fine.  :P

I was trying to be nice, but you caught my dig. Ok, so you're not totally stupid. Has anyone else said this? Still, for a proper debate to occur, ad hominem attacks need to stop and I will try to end whatever role I played in that from here on. The topic is bigger than personalities, but Scepti, you gotta admit, you're quite a handful! Was that a dig? I mean, some people think I'm a handful and are done with me over different things, just not what we're dealing with here.

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BJ1234

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Re: So I guess Buzz Aldrin is still brainwashed
« Reply #556 on: September 30, 2014, 08:36:38 AM »
It doesn't matter what distance. Any glass that can magnify at any distance is in effect a magnifying glass.

Unfortunately a telescope isn't a glass. Sometimes the magnifying parts are mirrors. And it does matter what distance. Microscopes, magnifying glasses, spectacles, binoculars, telescopes, cameras etc can all have magnifying properties but they are not 'in effect' the same thing. Each is designed to operate under different circumstances. You're just being deliberately obtuse.
I'm not bothered what they are designed for, they perform the function of magnification.
So if someone told you a motorcycle is the same thing as a car, you would be OK with that?  Since you know they perform the function of driving on a street...  Great argument scepti... ::)
It's about the function. I never said a magnifying glass was anything specific. I said a magnifying glass performs the function of magnification. The magnifying glass can be used in many optical objects ranging from microscopes to what we all know as a hand held magnifying glass, to a telescope, etc.
That's all my point is.

Except a magnifying glas IS a specific type of magnifying device.  It wouldn't be used to watch a rocket launch from any sort of distance.  You are just upset that you got called out on your deliberate obtuseness.

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sceptimatic

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Re: So I guess Buzz Aldrin is still brainwashed
« Reply #557 on: September 30, 2014, 08:51:20 AM »
It doesn't matter what distance. Any glass that can magnify at any distance is in effect a magnifying glass.

Unfortunately a telescope isn't a glass. Sometimes the magnifying parts are mirrors. And it does matter what distance. Microscopes, magnifying glasses, spectacles, binoculars, telescopes, cameras etc can all have magnifying properties but they are not 'in effect' the same thing. Each is designed to operate under different circumstances. You're just being deliberately obtuse.
I'm not bothered what they are designed for, they perform the function of magnification.

Skepti, as a former optician, I think that this is the most logical thing I've seen from you. YES, regardless of the distance used and the arrangement of lenses and possibly mirrors (in the case of telescopes), both magnifying glasses AND telescopes MAGNIFY what is in front of them. Wow, Skepti, you have a brain! Now use it more for the larger arguments presented here.
Here's a little tip. If you attempt to take the piss, I will play it back. If you come here for a bit of chat and debate, regardless of whether you think something is right or not, just go with it. Trying to appear smart by slinging silly digs in will cause me to laugh at you and overlook your posts. Learn from that and you'll be fine.  :P

I was trying to be nice, but you caught my dig. Ok, so you're not totally stupid. Has anyone else said this? Still, for a proper debate to occur, ad hominem attacks need to stop and I will try to end whatever role I played in that from here on. The topic is bigger than personalities, but Scepti, you gotta admit, you're quite a handful! Was that a dig? I mean, some people think I'm a handful and are done with me over different things, just not what we're dealing with here.
I'll debate with you all day long. Just remember, though, I don't buckle easily and I can play the very same games as is played against me.
Digs don't bother me but they do lead to many pages of tit for tat, which becomes silly.
If you believe something and stick rigidly to it, then great. Just remember though, I'm the same and I do not bow down to people who profess superior knowledge based on their accepted indoctrination, as it's simply memory gymnastics with no physical proof to back it up, except for using supposed accredited scientists as back up.

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sceptimatic

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Re: So I guess Buzz Aldrin is still brainwashed
« Reply #558 on: September 30, 2014, 08:54:10 AM »
It doesn't matter what distance. Any glass that can magnify at any distance is in effect a magnifying glass.

Unfortunately a telescope isn't a glass. Sometimes the magnifying parts are mirrors. And it does matter what distance. Microscopes, magnifying glasses, spectacles, binoculars, telescopes, cameras etc can all have magnifying properties but they are not 'in effect' the same thing. Each is designed to operate under different circumstances. You're just being deliberately obtuse.
I'm not bothered what they are designed for, they perform the function of magnification.
So if someone told you a motorcycle is the same thing as a car, you would be OK with that?  Since you know they perform the function of driving on a street...  Great argument scepti... ::)
It's about the function. I never said a magnifying glass was anything specific. I said a magnifying glass performs the function of magnification. The magnifying glass can be used in many optical objects ranging from microscopes to what we all know as a hand held magnifying glass, to a telescope, etc.
That's all my point is.

Except a magnifying glas IS a specific type of magnifying device.  It wouldn't be used to watch a rocket launch from any sort of distance.  You are just upset that you got called out on your deliberate obtuseness.
Nice try but I'm still correct. A magnifying glass is anything that magnifies, no matter what it is. Just accept it and move on. ;D

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BJ1234

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Re: So I guess Buzz Aldrin is still brainwashed
« Reply #559 on: September 30, 2014, 09:01:08 AM »
Quote
mag·ni·fy·ing glass
noun
a lens that produces an enlarged image, typically set in a frame with a handle and used to examine small or finely detailed things such as fingerprints, stamps, and fine print.

Once again you are wrong scepti.  Just accept it and move on.

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sceptimatic

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Re: So I guess Buzz Aldrin is still brainwashed
« Reply #560 on: September 30, 2014, 09:20:35 AM »
Quote
mag·ni·fy·ing glass
noun
a lens that produces an enlarged image, typically set in a frame with a handle and used to examine small or finely detailed things such as fingerprints, stamps, and fine print.

Once again you are wrong scepti.  Just accept it and move on.
Wrong about what?

Re: So I guess Buzz Aldrin is still brainwashed
« Reply #561 on: September 30, 2014, 09:30:08 AM »
Wrong about what?
this

Quote
A magnifying glass is anything that magnifies
That is obviously wrong.  A telescope is not a magnifying glass, no matter how many times you say it is.
Quote from: mikeman7918
a single photon can pass through two sluts

Quote from: Chicken Fried Clucker
if Donald Trump stuck his penis in me after trying on clothes I would have that date and time burned in my head.

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blnjms

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Re: So I guess Buzz Aldrin is still brainwashed
« Reply #562 on: September 30, 2014, 09:47:08 AM »
Wrong about what?
this

Quote
A magnifying glass is anything that magnifies
That is obviously wrong.  A telescope is not a magnifying glass, no matter how many times you say it is.

Well...in a sense it is because a telescope magnifies the celestial objects you point it at.

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Rama Set

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Re: So I guess Buzz Aldrin is still brainwashed
« Reply #563 on: September 30, 2014, 10:18:54 AM »
Wrong about what?
this

Quote
A magnifying glass is anything that magnifies
That is obviously wrong.  A telescope is not a magnifying glass, no matter how many times you say it is.

Well...in a sense it is because a telescope magnifies the celestial objects you point it at.

All magnifying glasses involve a glass, whether actual glass or some sort of synthetic version.  Not all telescopes do.

All magnifying glasses are for magnifying at close range.  Not all telescopes are.

You would be correct in saying that all telescopes are magnifiers, but not that they are magnifying glasses.
Aether is the  characteristic of action or inaction of charged  & noncharged particals.

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blnjms

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Re: So I guess Buzz Aldrin is still brainwashed
« Reply #564 on: September 30, 2014, 10:37:06 AM »
Wrong about what?
this

Quote
A magnifying glass is anything that magnifies
That is obviously wrong.  A telescope is not a magnifying glass, no matter how many times you say it is.

Well...in a sense it is because a telescope magnifies the celestial objects you point it at.

All magnifying glasses involve a glass, whether actual glass or some sort of synthetic version.  Not all telescopes do.

All magnifying glasses are for magnifying at close range.  Not all telescopes are.

You would be correct in saying that all telescopes are magnifiers, but not that they are magnifying glasses.

No, of course: telescopes aren't magnifying glasses, but I think even Scepti knows that. We were getting caught up in semantics. I do believe that "magnifier" covers both magnifying glasses and telescopes by virtue of the fact that they magnify the image of what we point them at.

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Rama Set

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Re: So I guess Buzz Aldrin is still brainwashed
« Reply #565 on: September 30, 2014, 11:52:24 AM »
Why would you assume what scepti knows?  Does he not have a history of completely subverting what you would expect a sane person to know?
Aether is the  characteristic of action or inaction of charged  & noncharged particals.

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sceptimatic

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Re: So I guess Buzz Aldrin is still brainwashed
« Reply #566 on: September 30, 2014, 12:01:45 PM »
Why would you assume what scepti knows?  Does he not have a history of completely subverting what you would expect a sane person to know?
It's quite hard to distinguish a sane person from a complete nutter by forum type. For all I know you could be a little head banging dwarf wrapped in a Caesar type gown, wearing a larger than normal sized head piece due to a huge protruding forehead....or...you could be quite sensible and mature away from the forum. It's really hard to tell. Equally you could be neither of them  ;)

Re: So I guess Buzz Aldrin is still brainwashed
« Reply #567 on: September 30, 2014, 12:30:01 PM »
Does anyone have any idea what a telescope actually does?

Yes, I do. They're quite simple. Do you find them mysterious?
So, then tell me what the function of a telescope is.
Since this was directed to me, and I don't think it has been completely addressed yet, I'll jump into the fray.

The basic function of a telescope is to collect electromagnetic energy using an optic of some type (typically a positive lens or concave mirror) and form a real image of an object or objects at a distance. The electromagnetic energy is often visible light, but it doesn't have to be. How that image is used varies, depending on what is to be accomplished.

One use is to simply measure the energy collected, often as a function of wavelength (radio telescopes are used this way) to estimate the total energy emitted by the object(s), to estimate radial velocity by Doppler shift, or to compare with other objects.

Another is to form the image on a piece of photographic film or, more recently, imaging devices such as CCDs, for documentation, to allow detailed study, or just make pretty pictures.

The typically thought of use for a telescope is, of course, to use a small microscope called an eyepiece (or even a simple magnifying glass) to visually examine the image. Using a telescope visually can provide a number of benefits beyond making distant objects appear closer ("magnification"). Of great importance, a large primary optic can collect vastly more light than the eye's pupil will allow and concentrate it into a small exit pupil so all that light can be admitted into the eye, making dim objects much brighter.

Used visually, sometimes telescopes are useful without providing any magnification at all - a common example is the 1X Telescopic  sight.  Why use a 1X scope sight?  The problem with "iron" gunsights is that the shooter has to line up three objects at vastly different distances from his eye - the rear sight, which is very close, the front sight at the far end of the barrel, and the much more distant target. A telescopic sight has a reticule (typically crosshairs) at exactly the plane where the image is formed, so both the target and crosshairs are in focus at the same time; if the telescope is exactly 1X, you can also use your other eye at the same time.

You can build a simple telescope using two magnifying glasses. If they have different focal lengths, the telescope can provide magnification or reduction depending on which is used as the eyepiece. A magnifying glass can be part of a telescope, but a telescope is not the same as a magnifying glass.

But all of this is a diversion to cover for sceptimatic's blunder (or was it intentional obfuscation) using the term "magnifying glass" here...

I never mentioned a personal space flight. Read what I said. I said, all I need for proof, is to see astronauts get into a rocket with me being as close as possible to it, watching them enter it and be locked inside, then launch. That's all I would need. As far as I know, it should be easy to achieve on a small budget, as in simply travelling expenses to the launch area and the usage of their ultra brilliant optics to ensure I see enough evidence with my own eyes in REAL time.
How's your Russian?  Since they're about the only ones currently sending up astronauts (cosmonauts) on a regular basis, you might want to talk with them to see what they can do to hook you up.  As I recall, they also let observers a lot closer to the launch pad than the Americans do.
As you recall? who actually told you this?
Also, assuming you know the score about it all, can I view the cosmonauts actaully getting into the rocket with my own eyes and watch them take off, with my own eyes - not by looking at a screen, but by looking in real time in open air through binoculars or something?
Standing me a few miles away with a magnifying glass will not convince me of anything.

So, back to the discussion at hand, does this mean you would be satisfied if you had direct line of sight from a distance of perhaps a couple kms and could watch the whole proceedings through binoculars?
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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Rama Set

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Re: So I guess Buzz Aldrin is still brainwashed
« Reply #568 on: September 30, 2014, 01:20:49 PM »
Why would you assume what scepti knows?  Does he not have a history of completely subverting what you would expect a sane person to know?
It's quite hard to distinguish a sane person from a complete nutter by forum type. For all I know you could be a little head banging dwarf wrapped in a Caesar type gown, wearing a larger than normal sized head piece due to a huge protruding forehead....or...you could be quite sensible and mature away from the forum. It's really hard to tell. Equally you could be neither of them  ;)

Well if I am crazy, I am pretty high functioning.  I am pretty confident you could not find me making arguments that are founded upon personal credulity for example, like you do.  Or completely refusing to carry out simple experiments that would totally disprove my world view, like you do.  Or thinking that outlandish notions like, almost everything in history is a fabrication that has little to do with the truth, like you do. 
Aether is the  characteristic of action or inaction of charged  & noncharged particals.

Re: So I guess Buzz Aldrin is still brainwashed
« Reply #569 on: September 30, 2014, 02:14:38 PM »
Why prolong this discussion, clearly Sceptical knows the answers.