Religion poisons everything

if it was YOU on the mayan sacrifice hotel ( or anyone else ), would you prefer to be killed to save a butcher culture ,

I'd hardly call the Mayans a "butcher" culture.  They were highly civilized.

Stop posting the same images ad nauseum. Its tantamount to spam.

Then how can we teach anything?  We clearly know very little to nothing aside from abstractions, and even then their relation to the real world has tenuous grasps sometimes logically (induction for example).

And I disagree, everyone is against new ideas not just religion.  In essence, we are all pretty dumb when it comes to things, why should your point of view be preferable to theirs, other than that you hold it. 

We shouldn't teach things as truths, but we should still teach things.  There are many things we are pretty sure about, and that work in practice, such as engineering, computing, mathematics, language (since we made it), and history.  The thing is that none of these are taught as a tenet of your life, as the most important thing since sliced bread.  We might not understand some things about these topics, but if we admit that no one will be blowing up buildings when someone claims another person might be incorrect, or at least not in the same numbers as those who do so over religion.

So you would take away the sacrifices right to his own meaning to his life simply because you find sacrifice icky or morally questionable?

Well now you are assuming that everyone was willingly sacrificed.  I don't think we should be killing anyone, regardless of meaning or reasoning.  It gets more complicated around suicide of course, because what right do i have to tell you that you should live, but that's a different topic.  Convincing someone that there is meaning in a sacrificial death is a different topic, and I think we should't allow that because we don't know for sure if there is a God.  But the Mayans usually sacrificed their prisoners, who I would imagine likely didn't want to be publicly murdered.

But yeah, my feelings regarding suicide are such, I would not personally do it, but I don't judge others as weak, wrong or inconsiderate for doing it.  But sacrifice is something different, and that I don't think we should be doing, especially out a potentially false sense of "meaning."

How would you define brain washing?

If you tell someone something is true their whole life, is that really brainwashing, or just the customs of a region?  Can you really put any blame on them for believing something ingrained as such?  Can we really prevent people from doing this?  Should we?


Would you stop Mayans from sacrificing to their gods during their time simply because they were effectively "brainwashed" into thinking it worked?  Or was it an important and central part of their culture and removing it would make them, in a way, less "Mayan".

I think it's ridiculous to claim that anyone, such as the Mayans, has a indefensible right to their beliefs especially when founded on claims that have little to no evidence to back them up.

To use a modern example, if you think it's fine to kill a women because she was raped, or throw acid in their face because they are a women who is literate, then go ahead, but it would appear you are lacking in some sort of compassion and sense of morality.

Religion, an sorry, no not NASA is the real conspiracy.

Healthy Earth-Please read the context "then go ahead" held in the sentence, in fact read the whole sentence and then tell me if you think I condone rape and disfigurement.

have you noticed that you don't often see priest themselves on the sacrifices table , but only brainwashed person .

Quite often.  They find themselves martyred quite often.  At times self sacrificed as well.  Really self-sacrifice and denial is one of the central themes of Christianity, in essence and in rote. 


Unless I have reason to assume they were unwillingly sacrificed, and it was practice and culturally and morally right to them I see no reason I should stick my nose where it doesn't belong.


We really can't say what evidence they had to back up their claims, can we?   We kinda burned that city.  Partly because it was different from our way of thinking.  We lost the societal worth of an entire culture. 

Let that sink in.  Thats an astronomical loss.  A real negative value in our society. 

I think given the consequences, its not unreasonable to allow people to have their own beliefs, so long as they don't infringe on others through action.  If you can't say it is, then its really not our place to assume they were unreasonable sacrifices given the moral norms. 

I'm sure some future society will view us as the equivalent of butchers or barbs -- that doesn't mean we should have these different future moralities and worldviews imposed on us.  I think without the journey, the knowledge is part useless and morality, as we can see by looking briefly morality is culturally defined to at least a point, if not completely.  Is it our right to tell them what to think?  What to believe?

Talk about brainwashing.

Thork quote : Stop posting the same images ad nauseum. Its tantamount to spam.

Healthy earth : The day all people in the world , will be as'' nauseus '' as you , about the inconscious stupidity , of all the wars and religions permitted atrocity , betraying life in the name of a god (always the real one ) , may be this day , we will be able to believe in the day where peace will prevail in our world .

Orbisnonsufficit quote : To answer your second question, I would prefer if no one was sacrificed to anyone.
Healthy earth : this start to sound like peace to me , these thought are coherent with the permanents waves of life

nobody really mentionned the fact that the brainwashed man in the picture that thork mentionned ,
was ready to take the life of others innocent people , for an egoist , the life of others have no value at all ,
it don't seems to touch a person very deeply around here , people talk around the power of the brainwashers ,
and their legitimity or not to use their brainwash power on population brains .

Rama set quote : To use a modern example, if you think it's fine to kill a women because she was raped, or throw acid in their face because they are a women who is literate, then go ahead, but it would appear you are lacking in some sort of compassion and sense of morality.

Healthy earth : If is was your mother or sister , would you suggest him to go ahead too .

Please, please use quotes. Your posts are quite difficult to read, even disregarding grammar.

Anyway, tell Martin Luther King that religious leaders never die for their causes.

Quote from: healthy earth on April 22, 2013, 09:45:36 AM

have you noticed that you don't often see priest themselves on the sacrifices table , but only brainwashed person .

Quite often.  They find themselves martyred quite often.  At times self sacrificed as well.  Really self-sacrifice and denial is one of the central themes of Christianity, in essence and in rote. 


Unless I have reason to assume they were unwillingly sacrificed, and it was practice and culturally and morally right to them I see no reason I should stick my nose where it doesn't belong.


We really can't say what evidence they had to back up their claims, can we?   We kinda burned that city.  Partly because it was different from our way of thinking.  We lost the societal worth of an entire culture. 

Let that sink in.  Thats an astronomical loss.  A real negative value in our society. 

I think given the consequences, its not unreasonable to allow people to have their own beliefs, so long as they don't infringe on others through action.  If you can't say it is, then its really not our place to assume they were unreasonable sacrifices given the moral norms. 

I'm sure some future society will view us as the equivalent of butchers or barbs -- that doesn't mean we should have these different future moralities and worldviews imposed on us.  I think without the journey, the knowledge is part useless and morality, as we can see by looking briefly morality is culturally defined to at least a point, if not completely.  Is it our right to tell them what to think?  What to believe?

Talk about brainwashing.

There are definitely some common tenets of morality.  For example murder of someone within your own culture is almost universally rejected.  I understand that on some topics you have to let the differences be that, and ultimately the differences should be celebrated.  Except for those very real cases where someone's personal safety and liberty is being infringed upon for ridiculous reasons (i.e. The Taliban's treatment of women).  We cannot allow people's well-being be unduly sacrificed for some pseudo-moral respect for another's culture.

Is it up to us to "Allow" or "Disallow" anything?  Doing so would be paramount to playing god.  Their society will advance at its own rate, it doesn't need our finger in its pie. Any forced changed will be superficial and be oiled with blood.

#" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">Hitchens Challenge

A good point regarding the monopoly of morality that many Christians claim.

That hardly proves anything.  Just because morality may have disseminated from mystical experiences partly, that does not mean it was not later disseminated through, for example, said moral actors parents, television, movies, or really any other media.

This is correct. Religion is a plague to human kind.

From a neutral standpoint, you say religion poisons everything (the things you want to do but "cant").  However, whats to say that those religious ways of life aren't all perfect.  Although obviously we can agree some things are normal, (some) atheists say that morals are stupid, and that people should do whatever they want, other than killing, etc.  I know someone who believes prostitution is acceptable.  However, (from a neutral standpoint) there is no overlying figure saying that this is exactly the way things should be.  Its an endless conflict.  Although personally i am a Christian, nothing, other than my faith in God, says that what the Bible and His word says is correct.  People who chose not to believe this cant say "well the Christian God says that prostitution is wrong, so i can't do it." they have different beliefs and are entitled to them.  In your opinion, religions spoils what you think is okay.  In theists and religious persons' opinions, you are ruining what their God or Deity wants you to do.
Also i used prostitution for this just because its the first thing that came to my mind.  There are obviously other things that are disputed.