The Flat Earth Society
Other Discussion Boards => Philosophy, Religion & Society => Topic started by: Supertails on August 31, 2012, 11:58:31 AM
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I have a good feeling about this thread already. (http://shine.yahoo.com/parenting/dad-protects-son-bullies-wearing-skirt-guess-works-153600107.html) Do you think this is 'wrong' or is this man father of the year?
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For one, that isn't a skirt, it's a dress. And two, whatever, I give up.
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>red skirt with a green t-shirt
What a pleb
Looks like he's wearing a fucking bath towel
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For one, that isn't a skirt, it's a dress. And two, whatever, I give up.
;)
>red skirt with a green t-shirt
What a pleb
Looks like he's wearing a fucking bath towel
I thought the same thing! Talk about lack of fashion sense in even its simplest form.
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Guys are not notorious for their color coordination and he probably doesn't have a whole lot of frilly matching shirts. This dad is awesome, I'm not surprised he lives in Germany. There are a lot of liberal gender benders over there.
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Guys are not notorious for their color coordination and he probably doesn't have a whole lot of frilly matching shirts. This dad is awesome, I'm not surprised he lives in Germany. There are a lot of liberal gender benders over there.
Rooster again with her glittering pearls of wisdom.
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I'm a lumberjack and I'm okay...
Seriously, though, isn't it part of a parent's job to teach their children about social norms and appropriate behavior and appearance in public?
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I'm a lumberjack and I'm okay...
Seriously, though, isn't it part of a parent's job to teach their children about social norms and appropriate behavior and appearance in public?
Yes, What makes you think that wearing a dress is inappropriate?
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The same thing that makes publicly picking your nose or scratching your ass inappropriate. It isn't accepted. It violates the norms of society.
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It violates the norms of society.
Your point being?
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The same thing that makes publicly picking your nose or scratching your ass inappropriate. It isn't accepted. It violates the norms of society.
Societal norms are silly and pointlessly limiting.
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Lots of guys wear dresses. Especially red dresses. In fact, sometimes it's the social uniform of the day.
http://www.reddressruns.org/ (http://www.reddressruns.org/)
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It violates the norms of society.
Your point being?
Look, we don't need to go through every step of the Socratic method here. You know what social norms are. If you have a problem with them, just spell it out.
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I'm a lumberjack and I'm okay...
Seriously, though, isn't it part of a parent's job to teach their children about social norms and appropriate behavior and appearance in public?
But the kid is 5 years old! Who cares what they wear. And if the kid is gay and wants to wear dresses then he should be able to do so. There are very little social norms regarding dress these days, your example was hygiene related which is more important than arbitrary dress norms.
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But the kid is 5 years old! Who cares what they wear.
Obviously his peers do, hence the bullying.
And if the kid is gay and wants to wear dresses then he should be able to do so.
The five year old kid is gay?
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This is going to devolve into yet another discussion about why society should be a certain way (which just happens to be the way the majority agrees with). If the majority of people thought boning kids was okay, pedos wouldn't be put in jail, etc. etc.
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But the kid is 5 years old! Who cares what they wear.
Obviously his peers do, hence the bullying.
Yes we should all do what our peers think we should do and nothing more or less.
And if the kid is gay and wants to wear dresses then he should be able to do so.
The five year old kid is gay?
Maybe he is?
This is going to devolve into yet another discussion about why society should be a certain way (which just happens to be the way the majority agrees with). If the majority of people thought boning kids was okay, pedos wouldn't be put in jail, etc. etc.
It's not that complex. Pedophilia hurts people, a boy wearing a dress does not.
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It's not that complex. Pedophilia hurts people, a boy wearing a dress does not.
Yet suicide is illegal.
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It's not that complex. Pedophilia hurts people, a boy wearing a dress does not.
Yet suicide is illegal.
Please point out where I said anything about laws being rational. ???
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It's not that complex. Pedophilia hurts people, a boy wearing a dress does not.
Yet suicide is illegal.
Please point out where I said anything about laws being rational. ???
The point is the individual is hurting the self, not someone else. Society attempts to self-correct for that, hence suicide being illegal or cross-dressing being made fun of.
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It's not that complex. Pedophilia hurts people, a boy wearing a dress does not.
Yet suicide is illegal.
Please point out where I said anything about laws being rational. ???
The point is the individual is hurting the self, not someone else. Society attempts to self-correct for that, hence suicide being illegal or cross-dressing being made fun of.
Which is stupid. Though I can hardly see why you'd compare suicide and cross-dressing.
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What that kid needs is to be smacked. Dresses are for girls. Don't like it? Then go drown in your own sorrow drawing chibi emo love scenes. Stop trying to make some f'd up people seem normal when they really aren't-they are freaks.
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Yes we should all do what our peers think we should do and nothing more or less.
Unless you also happen to be five years old, this comment makes no sense. This kid isn't wearing a dress because he's trying to make some bold statement of individuality or brave challenge of irrational social norms. No five-year-old has the rationality or maturity to do anything of the kind. He's wearing a dress for the same reason that other five-year-olds constantly wear Superman pajamas or underwear on their heads - they don't know any better. That's how little kids are. They do silly things, and therefore often need their parents to guide their behavior appropriately.
Also, ignore Ichi. He's not even putting in any effort.
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If I were the father, I'd tell the parents of the bullies to get their kids in order and then put my kid in 'normal' clothing while attempting to explain why. He wouldn't have any idea of sexuality at his age (at least, I wouldn't think so, but I could be wrong), so wearing a dress does nothing but attract negativity and contribute to confusion.
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Yes we should all do what our peers think we should do and nothing more or less.
Unless you also happen to be five years old, this comment makes no sense. This kid isn't wearing a dress because he's trying to make some bold statement of individuality or brave challenge of irrational social norms. No five-year-old has the rationality or maturity to do anything of the kind. He's wearing a dress for the same reason that other five-year-olds constantly wear Superman pajamas or underwear on their heads - they don't know any better. That's how little kids are. They do silly things, and therefore often need their parents to guide their behavior appropriately.
Also, ignore Ichi. He's not even putting in any effort.
Okay, and why should he be told he can't wear his clothing of choice? It's not like he's hurting somebody, it's just enforcing pointless and frankly silly gender stereotypes that don't have any actual grounding in anything at all, just like how pink used to be the manly colour and blue was feminine. It used to be "women wear skirts, men wear pants" or something. Now women wear whatever, so let guys wear whatever.
And yes, Ichi's post was made of 100% dumb.
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I'm fine with men/boys wearing skirts/dresses because of the example Supertails brought up. It was taboo for women to wear pants even in the 50s but look how ridiculous that seems now. Why should it not be the same in reverse? There's nothing logically wrong with a man wearing a dress.
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We need Thork to share his opinions on the subject with us.
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Why are neither of them wearing shoes?
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Yes we should all do what our peers think we should do and nothing more or less.
Unless you also happen to be five years old, this comment makes no sense. This kid isn't wearing a dress because he's trying to make some bold statement of individuality or brave challenge of irrational social norms. No five-year-old has the rationality or maturity to do anything of the kind. He's wearing a dress for the same reason that other five-year-olds constantly wear Superman pajamas or underwear on their heads - they don't know any better. That's how little kids are. They do silly things, and therefore often need their parents to guide their behavior appropriately.
Also, ignore Ichi. He's not even putting in any effort.
Okay, and why should he be told he can't wear his clothing of choice? It's not like he's hurting somebody, it's just enforcing pointless and frankly silly gender stereotypes that don't have any actual grounding in anything at all, just like how pink used to be the manly colour and blue was feminine. It used to be "women wear skirts, men wear pants" or something. Now women wear whatever, so let guys wear whatever.
And yes, Ichi's post was made of 100% dumb.
Guys don't look good in skirts/dresses in my opinion. The issue is that men look more like animals, and look better when covered up more fully. Now this is of course subjective, but hairy/thick legs just don't suit women's fashion. Women are on average more delicate, and therefore have more delicate garments. Am I against the kid wearing dresses, no, but there are going to be consequences. Should he be bullied, no, but I can't say i wouldn't laugh at how bad it looked.
And he is hurting himself. By not knowing the importance of appearance in our society, and by choosing an outfit suited to the opposite gender, he makes himself appear as an outsider. As a child, acceptance is key. Making or allowing you child to be an extreme (a cross dresser) is ill advised. If his 16 year old gay son chose to wear dresses, and the father supported this by wearing skirts, i would be more likely to approve.
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This story is an example of liberalism going too far.
Whether we like it or not, there are things that appear harmless on the surface that are considered taboo in society. Males wearing dresses is one of them. If an adult male chooses to buck societal conventions and wear a dress in public, that's his choice as someone of a mature mind. He likely understands that there will be negative consequences for doing so, and has made the choice to do it anyway.
People are going to tease him. People are going to reject him. People are going to talk about him. Sure, some people may applaud his "bravery", but such people are probably going to be in the minority. For the most part he will be treated as a joke. Whether it's right or not is beside the point; it's just the way it is. It's human nature.
And again, he probably knows all this. He has the life experience to understand the risk he's taking for choosing to do something that's not considered normal. Since there's no law against men wearing dresses (in most civilized places anyway) he is free to make this choice. If he's willing to accept the consequences, hey, more power to him.
The same cannot be said about an immature-minded child. As a five-year-old, he lacks the wisdom and life experience to understand the consequences of his actions. He's going to be teased and rejected at a time when it's probably most important for him to be accepted. This poor kid is looking at a lifetime of issues and his boneheaded father isn't doing him any favors by supporting it.
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This story is an example of liberalism going too far.
::)
Other kids will get used to it, or he'll get sick of wearing dresses. As long as teachers aren't bullying him this sort of thing goes away once kids get used to things being different.
You and others are blowing this out of proportion. Please do tell us about how rampant political correctness is destroying society, though, or whatever other wisdom you've learned from chain emails.
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Other kids will get used to it
Lol.
Please do tell us about how rampant political correctness is destroying society, though, or whatever other wisdom you've learned from chain emails.
Because this was hinted at in Roundy's post? Here:
You [...] are blowing this out of proportion.
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This story is an example of liberalism going too far.
::)
Other kids will get used to it, or he'll get sick of wearing dresses. As long as teachers aren't bullying him this sort of thing goes away once kids get used to things being different.
How idealistic of you.
You and others are blowing this out of proportion. Please do tell us about how rampant political correctness is destroying society, though, or whatever other wisdom you've learned from chain emails.
To paraphrase Rushy, wut?
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Lol is the best response you can come up with? Kids get used to things, especially if the adults around them aren't freaking out about it and the child in question stands up for him or herself. Considering that the kid here has a supportive father I don't think he's just going to crumple up into a ball of depression when other kids make fun of him.
I can speak from experience here, actually. As a stubborn child in kindergarten, I insisted on playing the part of the mother in little games of house. The teacher didn't scold me and when kids told me I was being a girl I said that I thought girls were great so what was the big deal? They got used to it, I got to play the part of the mom, and eventually I got sick of playing house and moved onto other things.
It was no big deal.
I've also spent a great deal of time in kindergarten and first grade classes, as both my mom and grandma taught at that level. I don't think you guys really know what you're talking about, honestly.
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Well, considering that you completely misrepresented what I was saying, and clearly have no idea of my political leanings, it's frankly all I thought your response was worth.
Lol was Rushy's response. Please do pay attention.
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Well, considering that you completely misrepresented what I was saying, and clearly have no idea of my political leanings, it's frankly all I thought your response was worth.
Lol was Rushy's response. Please do pay attention.
How do you know that Roundy did not laugh out loud at your post in response to it? You did not say "'Lol' was your best response," you said "Lol was your best response" implying use of the acronym, not a quotation of my post.
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The deletion of that post is clearly an omission of error.
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You and others are blowing this out of proportion. Please do tell us about how rampant political correctness is destroying society, though, or whatever other wisdom you've learned from chain emails.
Slow down there, bro. Thork hasn't even posted yet.
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Well, considering that you completely misrepresented what I was saying, and clearly have no idea of my political leanings, it's frankly all I thought your response was worth.
Lol was Rushy's response. Please do pay attention.
Yeah, that's why I removed the post. I see you chose to make this post anyway. How smug of you.
At any rate, you did completely misrepresent my position. It speaks volumes.
Lol is the best response you can come up with? Kids get used to things, especially if the adults around them aren't freaking out about it and the child in question stands up for him or herself. Considering that the kid here has a supportive father I don't think he's just going to crumple up into a ball of depression when other kids make fun of him.
I can speak from experience here, actually. As a stubborn child in kindergarten, I insisted on playing the part of the mother in little games of house. The teacher didn't scold me and when kids told me I was being a girl I said that I thought girls were great so what was the big deal? They got used to it, I got to play the part of the mom, and eventually I got sick of playing house and moved onto other things.
It was no big deal.
I've also spent a great deal of time in kindergarten and first grade classes, as both my mom and grandma taught at that level. I don't think you guys really know what you're talking about, honestly.
Well, according to the article he is still being teased. I'm not sure you're as in touch with the kids as you think you are. His behavior is making him an outcast, and it will only get worse if he continues doing it (and again, his dad is not helping by supporting it).
The deletion of that post is clearly an omission of error.
I don't think that phrase means what you think it does. Perhaps you meant to use some other word besides "omission"?
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Well, according to the article he is still being teased.
Yes, kids often get teased about many things.
I'm not sure you're as in touch with the kids as you think you are. His behavior is making him an outcast,
Really, a complete outcast? Or are certain kids just teasing him?
and it will only get worse if he continues doing it (and again, his dad is not helping by supporting it).
You assume it will get worse.
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Guys, you're forgetting the most important part: dresses don't look good on men.
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Well, according to the article he is still being teased.
Yes, kids often get teased about many things.
Indeed they do. And it often causes issues.
I'm not sure you're as in touch with the kids as you think you are. His behavior is making him an outcast,
Really, a complete outcast? Or are certain kids just teasing him?
Yes, a complete outcast. He wears dresses. Boys aren't supposed to wear dresses.
and it will only get worse if he continues doing it (and again, his dad is not helping by supporting it).
You assume it will get worse.
It will. As you say, they're just kids now. Do you honestly think the bullying won't get worse if he continues this into grade school, and on into high school?
Again, how idealistic of you.
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I see, so nothing but the typical social conservative appeals to "common sense". How lazy.
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I see, so nothing but the typical social conservative appeals to "common sense". How lazy.
Again, you have no idea of my political leanings. I'm actually extremely liberal about most things. But... yes, I do possess common sense, which I suppose might be why I don't simply toe the party line about everything.
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Guys, you're forgetting the most important part: dresses don't look good on men.
I disagree, I think some can pull it off.
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I see, so nothing but the typical social conservative appeals to "common sense". How lazy.
Again, you have no idea of my political leanings. I'm actually extremely liberal about most things. But... yes, I do possess common sense, which I suppose might be why I don't simply toe the party line about everything.
You misunderstand. You're advancing a socially conservative position. It doesn't matter what party you adhere to. It's merely a description of what you're doing.
And your common sense, gasp, could be wrong! Don't bother actually looking into it, though, that might take some actual work.
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I see, so nothing but the typical social conservative appeals to "common sense". How lazy.
Again, you have no idea of my political leanings. I'm actually extremely liberal about most things. But... yes, I do possess common sense, which I suppose might be why I don't simply toe the party line about everything.
You misunderstand. You're advancing a socially conservative position. It doesn't matter what party you adhere to. It's merely a description of what you're doing.
Well, then I have trouble understanding why you think I was being "lazy" with my post; obviously I'm putting some thought into my argument if I am generally a liberal but in this particular instance pushing a socially conservative position.
You on the other hand seem to be stuck in "all liberal, all the time" mode. Lazy.
And your common sense, gasp, could be wrong! Don't bother actually looking into it, though, that might take some actual work.
It's not. It is in fact blindingly obvious to anyone with half a brain. That's why they call it "common sense".
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I just love ad hominem wars filling up my threads.
>:(
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He started it. >:(
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It's not. It is in fact blindingly obvious to anyone with half a brain. That's why they call it "common sense".
Actually, it's called "common" sense because it's beliefs and attitudes that many people share. There's no guarantee that it's actually right, and common sense varies across different cultures.
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It's not. It is in fact blindingly obvious to anyone with half a brain. That's why they call it "common sense".
Actually, it's called "common" sense because it's beliefs and attitudes that many people share.
I believe you will be hard-pressed to find a source confirming this definition (because you're wrong).
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I believe you will be hard-pressed to find a source confirming this definition (because you're wrong).
Read all about it, it's talked about a lot in sociology:
http://www.cliffsnotes.com/study_guide/Sociology-and-Common-Sense.topicArticleId-26957,articleId-26834.html (http://www.cliffsnotes.com/study_guide/Sociology-and-Common-Sense.topicArticleId-26957,articleId-26834.html)
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I believe you will be hard-pressed to find a source confirming this definition (because you're wrong).
Read all about it, it's talked about a lot in sociology:
http://www.cliffsnotes.com/study_guide/Sociology-and-Common-Sense.topicArticleId-26957,articleId-26834.html (http://www.cliffsnotes.com/study_guide/Sociology-and-Common-Sense.topicArticleId-26957,articleId-26834.html)
Many people mistakenly believe that sociology is the study of the obvious. They claim that sociology is nothing but the application of common sense. But equating any science with simple common sense could not be further from the truth!
I see.
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You see that you're wrong about common sense. Good.
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You see that you're wrong about common sense. Good.
No, I see that you're wrong about common sense. That's okay though, we all make mistakes.
Further reading:
Common sense is defined by Merriam-Webster as, "sound and prudent judgment based on a simple perception of the situation or facts." Thus, "common sense" (in this view) equates to the knowledge and experience which most people already have, or which the person using the term believes that they do or should have. The Cambridge Dictionary defines it as, "the basic level of practical knowledge and judgment that we all need to help us live in a reasonable and safe way"
Sounds like my definition to me.
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??? All that's obvious is that you've never studied sociology, and the idea that "common sense" is a social construct. I'm not surprised that your merriam-webster definition doesn't include criticism of the concept of common sense, and how it's not something innate or always reliable.
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??? All that's obvious is that you've never studied sociology, and the idea that "common sense" is a social construct. I'm not surprised that your merriam-webster definition doesn't include criticism of the concept of common sense, and how it's not something innate.
Well, you're right; I've never studied sociology. I am also not claiming that common sense is something that's innate.
Note that Merriam-Webster and Cambridge both agree with me. Those are dictionary definitions for the phrase "common sense".
Anyway, back on topic. I took your advice and looked into the facts regarding kids being bullied and rejected for wearing a dress. Here's an interesting tidbit about another parent who supports her son's weird inclinations:
The impassioned author of that blog, Pink Is for Boys, is careful to conceal her son’s identity, as were the other parents interviewed for this article. As much as these parents want to nurture and defend what makes their children unique and happy, they also fear it will expose their sons to rejection. Some have switched schools, changed churches and even moved to try to shield their children.
I suppose the ball is in your court. Can you point me to a source showing that boys who wear dresses are not bullied and rejected by their peers?
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Another quote from that article:
So it is for Moriko and her husband, who struggled for years to understand their son’s attraction to girls’ clothes even though it made him a social pariah.
Note that "pariah" is a synonym for the word "outcast".
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Here's an interesting and relevant article:
http://www.thelocal.se/31978/20110211/ (http://www.thelocal.se/31978/20110211/)
A 6-year-old boy was stabbed in the neck at a preschool in Jönköping in central Sweden after having been the target of bullies for an extended period of time, reported the local Jönköpings-Posten daily.
The newspaper names the boy as Oskar and reports how his liking for pink clothing, ballet and nail polish left him exposed to regular bullying from other boys in his playgroup.
Anyway, it's really late. I can continue slaughtering you in this debate tomorrow if you'd like.
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From the very article you quoted:
Moriko’s son will soon enter eighth grade in his Long Island public middle school. Most of his friends are girls, and he dresses just like them: skinny jeans, black eyeliner, light lipstick and off-the-shoulder shirts from the girls’ department. (Moriko makes him wear a tank top underneath.) When his teachers asked which pronoun they should use when referring to him, he said masculine. But he doesn’t want to be called a boy, or a girl.
Oh my goodness, friends.
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I can continue slaughtering you in this debate tomorrow if you'd like.
You're right. It can never work and we should never even try.
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(http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lmr2wogNKS1qcuaazo1_500.jpg)
Men wearing skirts. They are probably never bullied.
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The one on the right is, he looks like the Dursley dad from Harry Potter.
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*sigh*
The child shouldn't wear the dress in that society. Arbitrary social norms are what helps us function in our world and assign role to people. We all want to think that we're rational, nonjudgmental people but that's completely false. If we see a woman standing in an alley, we're going to think "Hooker". If we see a man standing in an alley we're going to think "mugger". You see an old man in a dark alley, you'll probably feel safe. If you see a young girl in a dark room, you'll probably feel safe. If you see a young man in a dark room, you probably won't. Especially if you're a woman. Men and woman ARE different, like it or not. And being able to identify who is a man and who is a woman is very important in any species.
If we see a little kid in a red dress we're going to think "girl" and treat him differently. If he continues this behavior, then the repercussions could be that what a guy thought was a hot chick was really a man. We treat women differently. We, men, give them things (drinks, flowers, sweet words, epic items in WoW, etc...) that we don't normally give to other guys. When they discover that the girl they've been attempting to woo is really a guy, they feel tricked. And since men are violent by nature, they're more likely to attack the person who "tricked" them. It doesn't matter if that was the intent or not. Men are not creature of rational thought when angered. They are physically violent creatures. Women, on the other hand, are emotionally violent.
Anyway the point is that the child should be forced to follow the social norms until he/she is capable of understanding and accepting the consequences of not doing it.
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Should guys be wearing high heels? No.
Should guys be wearing bras? No.
Should guys being wearing dresses? NO.
This attempts to make guys and girls the same when they are and should remain distinctive. What's next, large co-ed bathrooms at grade school?
All the parents are doing is lining up the kid for bullying and mental abuse. Face it- he will be bullied, he will get hurt, and he will have a damaged psyche by the time he is grown up.
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It violates the norms of society.
Your point being?
Look, we don't need to go through every step of the Socratic method here. You know what social norms are. If you have a problem with them, just spell it out.
I don't have a problem with social norms. What makes you think I do?
I have a problem with anoyone who thinks that anyone else who breaks social norms is being inappropriate.
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Should guys be wearing high heels? No.
Should guys be wearing bras? No.
Should guys being wearing dresses? NO.
This attempts to make guys and girls the same when they are and should remain distinctive. What's next, large co-ed bathrooms at grade school?
All the parents are doing is lining up the kid for bullying and mental abuse. Face it- he will be bullied, he will get hurt, and he will have a damaged psyche by the time he is grown up.
So your message is "stay in line, or we'll stomp you"
grow up.
If everyone though like this, there would not have been a feminist revolution, a black revolution, a secular revolutio etc etc an LGBT movement/revolution. psychology is not just about people who inflict bullying on you, it is also about how those around you, who love you or love freedom etc, support you.
There was a kid in my school who was born a boy, when he was about 9 he started dressing like a girl, for a few days he gotr picked on, but then there was a class disuccion about it, where his parents came in and discussed it. I went to the same secondaey school as her, and no one and I mean no one picked on her, unless they wanted to be socially chastised and it very rarely happened, and she was compleltly open about it. and so here, what is the dad doing? being supportive.
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It violates the norms of society.
Your point being?
Look, we don't need to go through every step of the Socratic method here. You know what social norms are. If you have a problem with them, just spell it out.
I don't have a problem with social norms. What makes you think I do?
I have a problem with anoyone who thinks that anyone else who breaks social norms is being inappropriate.
That is what being inappropriate means.
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It violates the norms of society.
Your point being?
Look, we don't need to go through every step of the Socratic method here. You know what social norms are. If you have a problem with them, just spell it out.
I don't have a problem with social norms. What makes you think I do?
I have a problem with anoyone who thinks that anyone else who breaks social norms is being inappropriate.
That is what being inappropriate means.
I don't think so.
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What's messed up is that women can basically wear whatever they want but if a man deviates just a little then "ohmuhgerd he's gay let's kick his ass!"
Men are so retarded. The little boy will still easily make friends, the kind of friends that are good for him, not shallow, judgmental, close-minded fools.
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No one should wear high heels.
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If everyone though like this, there would not have been a feminist revolution, a black revolution, a secular revolutio etc etc an LGBT movement/revolution.
Is that what this is about to you? The best way to fight these revolutions? Rather than, you know, the welfare of the child?
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If everyone though like this, there would not have been a feminist revolution, a black revolution, a secular revolutio etc etc an LGBT movement/revolution.
Is that what this is about to you? The best way to fight these revolutions? Rather than, you know, the welfare of the child?
quote a portion of my comment and attack it, will you? paltry response.
Oh well...
My comment was multifacted; you obviously haven't the ability to follow a complex argument.
let me draw your attention to the sentence that came exactly after that, see as you so obviously have a short attention span:
psychology is not just about people who inflict bullying on you, it is also about how those around you, who love you or love freedom etc, support you.
And here's my conclusion:
what is the dad doing? being supportive.
so yes, I think I was talking about welfare.
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What's messed up is that women can basically wear whatever they want but if a man deviates just a little then "ohmuhgerd he's gay let's kick his ass!"
Men are so retarded. The little boy will still easily make friends, the kind of friends that are good for him, not shallow, judgmental, close-minded fools.
I agree that its stupid that if you dress a certain way, cry, show good taste, like flowers, or feel bad about anything ever, suddenly everyone suggests you want a penis in your mouth.
That being said, for the most part men look terrible in dresses. Obviously there are more effeminate males, but the whole shape of the dress, the hourglass and the bust, are dependent on certain female characteristics. I am not against men or boys wearing dresses because of societal constraints, obviously there are consequences for being a dude and wearing dresses (bullying), but I think it would be better if that was not the case.
That being said, you have to decide if its worth trying to prove that the constraints are stupid with someone who cannot even understand the constraints in the first place. If his 5 year old son could intellectually understand why he was not "supposed" to wear a dress, then I would be fine with this little social experiment. But i would not personally let my son wear a dress until i believed he could understand why society did not want him to do so.
I know someone is going to say that "the support of the father" will still let the kid come out okay, and i certainly hope this is the case, and I think its likely the case. But Much of that is dependent on how strict the school is about bullying, and the child's ability to find friends, which are really case by case factors that none of us can know. I just don't see the benefit of allowing a 5 year old to wear dresses. Besides the "its what he wants to wear" argument, and the overall progress to a society where a boy can be a whatever he wants, which this particular example does little to advance in comparison to transgender related violence, I just think that there are more negaitives for this boy than positives, even if they are just potential negatives.
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We need Thork to share his opinions on the subject with us.
Oh, holy fuck. I've only just seen this thread. There is so much I have to comment on and many of you aren't going to like it. Especially those who like to gay up FES.
I have a good feeling about this thread already. (http://shine.yahoo.com/parenting/dad-protects-son-bullies-wearing-skirt-guess-works-153600107.html) Do you think this is 'wrong' or is this man father of the year?
I'm not surprised Supertails is the OP. This fits in with his 'lets make everyone gay' agenda. Stop forcing gayness down people's throats. >:(
As a stubborn child in kindergarten, I insisted on playing the part of the mother in little games of house.
This quote is going to haunt you, Cupcake. :-*
Slow down there, bro. Thork hasn't even posted yet.
You can relax now, dude. My thoughts on the matter will be shared forthwith.
Guys, you're forgetting the most important part: dresses don't look good on men.
Does it really take an imbecile to point out the obvious? Even Blanko gets it.
I have a problem with anoyone who thinks that anyone else who breaks social norms is being inappropriate.
So your daughter introduces her new boyfriend to you. And he starts fingering her right there on the sofa in front of you. Its not illegal, its in the privacy of a private residence, they are both of age, just. Would you not prefer he just adhered to social norms and fingered her when you were out of the house?
Social norms are for the benefit of everyone. Its irrelevant if the new boyfriend feels comfortable fingering your daughter in front of you and your wife. Because its likely you or your wife aren't going to be comfortable with it. And the same with guys wearing dresses. When other people meet a man in drag, it makes them uncomfortable. Its f*cking selfish for liberals to say, "Well, that's your problem for not being open minded". No, we live in a society and we all do things to make life pleasant for everyone. And dressing appropriately is accepted the world over. From women who wear burkas (why doesn't my spell check know what a burka is?) in the Middle East to women covering their boobs in the west, to men who don't walk around with their nuts out. Men wearing dresses makes other people uncomfortable because its unusual and therefore causes awkwardness. Liberals are so self-centred it is untrue.
The little boy will still easily make friends, the kind of friends that are good for him, not shallow, judgmental, close-minded fools.
No one gives a crap about a 5 year old in a dress. Most people probably think he's a little girl. Its unfortunate and his parents should just buy him boy's clothes. Its not like he has a budget to buy dresses, he's 5. They bought him it and put him in that dress. However his dad wearing a dress is not acceptable. He should be charged with a public disorder offence. Its frankly unpleasant for those he comes into contact with.
@Supertails,
The five year old kid is gay?
Maybe he is?
5 year olds are not gay. Stop wishing everyone is gay all the time. >:( Most people aren't gay. That's why there are lots of people. And 5 year olds are asexual. They aren't into sex. That's why you aren't allowed to have sex with them, regardless of how gay they might look in a dress.
(http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lmr2wogNKS1qcuaazo1_500.jpg)
Men wearing skirts. They are probably never bullied.
That is because every one of them is much bigger than an average human, and that's because they all take steroids. Except the guy on the right, who is likely only interested in beer and pie. And maybe late-night pron.
As has been said, dresses are designed to accentuate the female figure. Men's clothes make men look better. Make a suit with shoulder pads or a pair of jeans that give the illusion of a pert backside. Dresses don't make men look better. A choice of clothes has nothing to do with sexuality. Its just another way for gays to scream "Look at me, I'm different" as though being different is in some way better. Its not, or we'd all be doing it.
Now I know there are a great many shirt-lifters on the forum. Many will have tears rolling down their cheeks running their mascara as they hammer out a reply to this. And Evanescence playing in the background, fresh cuts burning into their forearms and the taste of black lipstick all over their teeth won't deter them. But social norms are what helps make society more pleasant for everyone. Even those you despise because they don't want to tolerate your mincing about showing everyone just how proud you are that you can't distinguish which sex would make an appropriate mate for you.
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It's really hard to take you seriously when your posts are 98% ad hominems, 2% actual content. Sice when do I want everyone to be gay? ???
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What the fuck is a shirt-lifter? I assume it's a gay thing but I don't see the connection.
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You shouldn't try to take him seriously.
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What the fuck is a shirt-lifter? I assume it's a gay thing but I don't see the connection.
Its a widely used colloquialism.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=shirt%20lifter (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=shirt%20lifter)
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Whose shirt is that long they need to lift it to allow ass-access? This is why we invented vents, people.
It's also why double-vents are looked down upon; they're slutty.
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We need Chris to share his opinions on the subject with us.
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I think he is busy spreading liberalism in Asia or something. He's definitely out of the UK preaching his wretched ideologies around the planet.
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We need Chris to share his opinions on the subject with us.
Presumably the parents bought the dress for him, probably after the kid said he wanted it. The parents must have known that children can be spiteful, vicious gits and that by wearing something different, he would be putting him in the line of fire for the torrent of hate which only children are capable of feeling.
Credit to him for standing up for his son, but he shouldn't really have been put in that situation in the first place, his Dad won't always be there to defend him. In an ideal world it shouldn't matter, but all of us were in school once, we all know that it does matter. When the kid is old enough to decide for himself whether he wants to take the hits and stand up for himself in a dress then fine.
Also, this is just one reason I support having School Uniforms, kids shouldn't have to worry about clothes and fashion at that age and parents shouldn't be held to ransom by the constantly changing and expensive fashions
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Thank god people like Thork are dwindling in numbers.
Also, I walked past some hippies sitting on a bench drinking coffee and smoking cigarettes and I was instantly infuriated. >o<
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Even Chris is not as comically liberal as CET.
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I agreed with everything Chris said. I think I'm wearing him down. He's becoming ... almost human.
Also, I walked past some hippies sitting on a bench drinking coffee and smoking cigarettes and I was instantly infuriated. >o<
You see, we're not so different after all.
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Thank god people like Thork are dwindling in numbers.
I am breading them like rabbits. I will soon have a skin head army.
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Thank god people like Thork are dwindling in numbers.
I am breading them like rabbits. I will soon have a skin head army.
Breaded rabbit is delicious but I prefer them in stews.
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I had breaded rabbit in Malta. Rabbit is the national dish and so I guess there is only so much one can do with a rabbit. It looked a bit like schnitzel, tasted a bit like a turkey escalope and smelt a bit like feet. 4/10 - needs work.
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erm... was does it matter if the father wears a dress as well?
The kid will still be teased, but now he'll be teased more because his dad also wears a dress. His fathers making it worse.