How can you dismiss all the space footage?

Force = Pressure / Area


Point to the item that represents densitt.

This is the only formula you need to know (in regards to this, anyway).



Compare two densities. That's about 3rd grade math or so. Stop being dumb about forces.

If P₁ > P₂, P₁ sinks. Otherwise it floats.

Force = Pressure / Area


Point to the item that represents densitt.

I think you have force and pressure swapped.

This is the only formula you need to know (in regards to this, anyway).



Compare two densities. That's about 3rd grade math or so. Stop being dumb about forces.

If P₁ > P₂, P₁ sinks. Otherwise it floats.

I ask, once again, what is the formula for momentum?

But fluids exert pressure on surfaces.
that's the pressure gradient.
that's the bouyancy.
that's the mechanism for why things float up.


the upward force of bouyancy created by the pressure of the fluid on the surface area.
up because greater pressure from below.
pressure gradient.



so.
knowing this.
how does a push up achieve a push down?

Quote from: Themightykabool on April 30, 2024, 06:27:15 AM

Force = Pressure / Area


Point to the item that represents densitt.

I think you have force and pressure swapped.

you are correct

F = P x A

No I dodged the question because I know my science is right or not, based on instinct and observations.

You mean you dodged the question because you are so desperate for your fantasy to be right, and you know these simple questions destroy it.

Let's do something here. We're going to check "gravity" against the standard of a fantasy story and see how well it stacks up.

You mean you will check your fantasy version of gravity, which ignores so much about reality and does nothing to show any fault with gravity itself.

This is how backward and superstitious your so-called scientific theory looks to me.

No, that is how backwards and superstitious your fantasy invention looks to you.
That is not gravity you are objecting to, as has been explained several times.

It presupposes a force that doesn't have any consistency

Gravity is consistent. You are yet to a show a single inconsistency.

Saying it is inconsistent is like saying because magnets can attract or repel it is inconsistent.
You just fail to honestly represent the force you are arguing against.

ignores the fact that gravity can't be tested on a micro scale

You mean ignoring the lie.
Gravity can be tested at a smaller scale, but it takes care to set up your experiment so it wont be useless due to the much greater force of attraction to Earth.
e.g. the Cavendish experiment.

Buoyancy can be tested locally

Your delusional crap can be tested and shown to be wrong due to the pressure gradient.
If you ignore that, those tests are equally tests of gravity. But you want to reject gravity at all costs so you pretend it can't be gravity but can be your BS.

If you wish to disagree, clearly explain how it is a test of your delusional BS but not gravity, especially when you are doing whatever you can to pretend your delusional BS produces the same results as gravity.

But the sun's gravity is more massive than the Earth's!

Not when you include the distance, as already explained.

And this requires you to ignore the fact that the entire Earth is accelerating towards the sun as it orbits it.

Do you not notice the massive difference between your BS test and Earth orbiting the sun?

Earth orbiting the sun is Earth in free fall outside the Roche limit of any more massive body.

Your test is your tiny balls sitting on Earth.
They are not comparable.
Earth is not a tiny ball sitting on the sun.

If it were a pull thing, the sun despite distance, is thousands of times more massive.

You can't just ignore distance.
Not when the strength of the force is based upon distance.

Water doesn't stick to spheres. It's contained inside basins.

No, it isn't magically contained. It tries to go to Earth.
If you take the basin and turn it sideways, the water doesn't magically stay inside.

Birds fly for the same reason you are able to swim.

No they don't. We are roughly neutrally buoyant, depending on how much air is in our lungs.
Birds are much more dense than air.
Birds fly by flapping their wings.

We humans aren't pulled to the sun

Only in your fantasy.

that shouldbe proof enough that it is negative buoyancy that causes things to fall, and positice buoyancy that makes them rise, not gravity.

No.
The fact you need to continually ignore the pressure gradient is proof enough that objects fall due to gravity, a pressure gradient is established due to gravity, and this pressure gradient pushes things up as the buoyant force.

This results in a coherent system which actually works. Your delusional BS does not.

This is the only formula you need to know (in regards to this, anyway).

That formula is entirely useless as it doesn't tell me things like what weight would a scale read? How quickly will it accelerate?
Will it go up or down?

These are quite important when considering other forces. Like the force due to the pressure gradient.

Again, if we take an object with the same density as the surrounding fluid, we end up with a force of 0 from your delusional BS.
That means the main force acting will be the pressure gradient, which pushes it up. So an object with equal density should rise.

In order to have them stay put, you need to have your BS force change to a downwards force based upon mass, with the force from the pressure gradient countering that.

Again, if you want to pretend your BS works, you need to address these massive issues with your delusional BS:
1 - Why having a different density to air should cause something to accelerate?
2 - Why in particular direction?
3 - Why at a particular rate?
4 - Why does this rate vary with location?
5 - Why does this exert a force on scales, including when they are made of a material denser than the object in question?
6 - Why does this create and maintain a pressure gradient?
7 - Why this particular pressure gradient based upon the density of the fluid, such that a lesser pressure gradient causes the fluid to fall and compress the fluid below while a greater pressure gradient pushes the fluid up?
8 - Why this pressure gradient doesn't just push everything up?
Modify message

But fluids exert pressure on surfaces.
that's the pressure gradient.
that's the bouyancy.
that's the mechanism for why things float up.


the upward force of bouyancy created by the pressure of the fluid on the surface area.
up because greater pressure from below.
pressure gradient.

so.
knowing this.
how does a push up achieve a push down?

Pressure activates in a number of directions, not just up and down. I can hook a hose to a sprinkler with wheels and the water will push the wheels forward.

This is water pressure, not imaginary gravity pressure.

Water pressure can go up or down. We traveled by ship through China's canal thingy. When the gates closed, the water went up.

The pressure gradient I'm talking about is the gradient of air pressure in the air and water of Earth's atmosphere. I don't care about your pressure gradient. You're asking it with the same insistence they asked about "preexisting conditions" to people who wanted to phase out Obamacare.

My pressure gradients show a clear decrease in atmosphere (a gradient of high to low to extremely low atmosphere). Yours don't even understand what a gradient is.



A color gradient.



Gradients of atmospheric pressure.

So you can wave that formula around all you want, and I'll just ignore it. You can't even agree on it!

Ever noticed how different space programs Earth images look? Why do the continents change shape?

Ever noticed how different space programs Earth images look? Why do the continents change shape?

when?!

Quote from: Themightykabool on April 30, 2024, 10:59:09 AM

But fluids exert pressure on surfaces.
that's the pressure gradient.
that's the bouyancy.
that's the mechanism for why things float up.


the upward force of bouyancy created by the pressure of the fluid on the surface area.
up because greater pressure from below.
pressure gradient.

so.
knowing this.
how does a push up achieve a push down?

Pressure activates in a number of directions, not just up and down. I can hook a hose to a sprinkler with wheels and the water will push the wheels forward.

This is water pressure, not imaginary gravity pressure.

Water pressure can go up or down. We traveled by ship through China's canal thingy. When the gates closed, the water went up.

The pressure gradient I'm talking about is the gradient of air pressure in the air and water of Earth's atmosphere. I don't care about your pressure gradient. You're asking it with the same insistence they asked about "preexisting conditions" to people who wanted to phase out Obamacare.

My pressure gradients show a clear decrease in atmosphere (a gradient of high to low to extremely low atmosphere). Yours don't even understand what a gradient is.



A color gradient.



Gradients of atmospheric pressure.

So you can wave that formula around all you want, and I'll just ignore it. You can't even agree on it!

Spectacular!


Dybamic vs static pressure was alrwady caveated.



Pressure gradient - so we agree it exists.
So, again 
How greater pressure on the bottom, pushing up, results in anpush down.

Ans
explain hiw presure on a surface results in knowing how dense it is?




And no we not fighting about the formula.
EarthIsRound corrected my mistake and i acknowledged it and i was incorrect.

Pressure activates in a number of directions, not just up and down. I can hook a hose to a sprinkler with wheels and the water will push the wheels forward.

That's right.
It can go in all directions.
For the net force on an object, do you know what dictates that direction?
The pressure gradient or differential.
If you have a high pressure to the right and a low pressure to the left, then it pushes to the left, from high pressure to low pressure.

The pressure gradient of the atmosphere (and other fluids) is from the bottom to the top. i.e. high pressure at ground level, and low pressure as you get higher.
That means the pressure pushes objects upwards.

I don't care about your pressure gradient.

Why would you when you are spouting pure BS, and this simple pressure gradient shows it.

You need to deal with this pressure for your delusional BS to work.
Saying you don't care, is just a pathetic admission that you know your BS doesn't work.

Yours don't even understand what a gradient is.

Care to elaborate rather than just spout more ignorant BS?

A gradient does not need to be uniform, and this shows a clear gradient.

So you can wave that formula around all you want, and I'll just ignore it.

Of course you will, as it shows you are spouting pure BS.

Again, if you want to pretend your BS works, you need to address these massive issues with your delusional BS:
1 - Why having a different density to air should cause something to accelerate?
2 - Why in particular direction?
3 - Why at a particular rate?
4 - Why does this rate vary with location?
5 - Why does this exert a force on scales, including when they are made of a material denser than the object in question?
6 - Why does this create and maintain a pressure gradient?
7 - Why this particular pressure gradient based upon the density of the fluid, such that a lesser pressure gradient causes the fluid to fall and compress the fluid below while a greater pressure gradient pushes the fluid up?
8 - Why this pressure gradient doesn't just push everything up?
Modify message

Ever noticed how different space programs Earth images look? Why do the continents change shape?

They don't really change shape.

But I believe the change you are looking for is the same reason as if you hold your eye right up against a ball, you see very little of it, but if you move back, you see more of it, so an object that you could see in both appears to take up less space in the further image.
e.g.:

How greater pressure on the bottom, pushing up, results in anpush down

It probably doesn't, but here's an example not involving gravity where I noticed pressuee one way also includes pressure in the opposite direction.

I was watering a neighbor's crops as a favor. The hose has a sprayer nozzle, so every time I squeeze the hose feels like it pulls back, as the water releases at volume from the sprayer.
As I may have explained before, one object is push up when another is pushed down. This is Newton's "equal and opposite reaction" meme, even though we arenever sure whether the amount of force actually is equal, or whether it is always opposite, or whether the force in question is gravity. Classic shoehorning a theory when another one is probably the culprit. :grumbles:

Anyway. Just as the hose recoils, a falling or sinking object outweighs the surface (air or water, usually) causing that surface to displace up around the falling object. This is why when I toss a large object in the water like an anvil or a fat kid, we see the splash. Fat kid displaces water all the way into the air. The water in turn is more dense than air so it displaces air as it falls back to where it should be. The big boned one emerges from water all of a sudden, what do we see? Water rushes from his body with rapid suction (this is different from the slow drip we get from gradually getting out of the water).

You're seeing this splash in reverse if he quickly gets out.

That push back wouls be mass-flow.
That would be how rockers fly.
That is everyactiongasequaloppositereaction.

That is dynamic pressure.

Now in a static pressure, the fluid isnt moving.
How does pressure below, pushing up, rssult in an object moving down.


Heres a thougt experiment.

You are blindfolded.
You represent the fluid.
You are told there is a bucket on the table.
You can touch the bucket all over.
How do you know whats in the bucket?

It probably doesn't, but here's an example not involving gravity where I noticed pressuee one way also includes pressure in the opposite direction.

I was watering a neighbor's crops as a favor. The hose has a sprayer nozzle, so every time I squeeze the hose feels like it pulls back, as the water releases at volume from the sprayer.

That is the action-reaction pair.

There is higher pressure water in the nozzle. This pushes the water out. But for your hand, it results in a force pushing it back.

As I may have explained before, one object is push up when another is pushed down. This is Newton's "equal and opposite reaction" meme, even though we arenever sure whether the amount of force actually is equal, or whether it is always opposite, or whether the force in question is gravity.

Due to a variety of reasons, we are pretty sure if it equal and opposite. As that is the only way which makes sense and produces a coherent model which doesn't violate things like conservation of momentum and conservation of energy.
As for gravity, we can be pretty sure if the force in question in gravity or not.
It is not always.
And some times it is less direct.

Anyway. Just as the hose recoils, a falling or sinking object outweighs the surface (air or water, usually) causing that surface to displace up around the falling object.

So gravity pulls it down?
Again, stick to the massive problem I have raised, an object of equal density to the surrounding fluid.
This does not outweigh the fluid it is in.
So your magic BS buoyancy force should be 0 for it.
This means the only force acting should be the pressure gradient.
This means it should be pushed up, yet it isn't.

Again, to make your nonsense work, you need to reduce your BS buoyancy force by the force from the pressure gradient.
But if you do that, you end up with a downwards force proportional to the mass of the object, i.e. weight; with the pressure gradient providing the upwards force.

That is why we know buoyancy is NOT a fundamental force.
It is the force from the pressure gradient.