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Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: taxes don't steal from people, people steal from people
« on: Today at 07:37:38 AM »Yes, businesses want profit.
You're the asshole who doesn't want to give it to them.
Or did you forget that even Mao eventually conceded "greed is good," and allowed a capitalist-like economic system even though the government is ostensibly communist. We went to China in 2005. We noticed the US was more economically socialist than China, which had little to no regulations against street corner businesses. US? To sell something, you often need to get a permit.
But yes, you say it "didn't work." So I guess you're right.
Or maybe I remember things fondly growing up in the 80s and 90s, and my fond memories are correct. And maybe, just maybe, when businesses want profit, you ought to give it to them.
We've driven through New Jersey several times. We've seen some very sketchy businesses. There are also nice country roads where you can buy bread in Cape May. Or small food stands that sell corn or other produce. You don't seem to understand New Jersey.
We went to a restaurant recently for Mother's Day. My dad (upper-middle class, not super wealthy but able to do nice things) went about a $30/person restaurant. With taxes and tip, he raised the total to about $50/person, he said. That's a little more than 30% combined tax and tip, no?
As for me, I usually avoid restaurants, as I know that I can't pay a fair tip.
You don't understand choice, because you think people have to be forced to do things. If you offer people something they already want, yes they will pay for it. The reason rich people might not like spending a 30% sales tax is that you foisted it on them. Compare these two sales taxes, and see if you get it.
Version 1: Luxury car tax at 30%. No say in how it is spent. Rich hate this tax (but let's face it, they hate all taxes) and might instead buy non-luxury cars.
Version 2: Many more cars are considered luxury. The ones that aren't are like used Pintos or 10+ year old cars. Those cars are tax free. Buying any decent new car has a 10% tax. But can pay a custom tax of 11% or more. Someone is super in favor of funding Ukraine's war. They buy the same car, but this time volunteer to pay 30%, provided they can write in 'Ukraine'.
You'd think that this is impossible. You'd be wrong. We can see you're wrong by looking at tip behavior. You can tip as little as nothing, yet the standard tip is usually 15%. Some pay alot more. After restaurants moved to a gratuity plus tip, some people just leave it at the gratuity and don't pay more. Interesting, isn't it? When people are told what is a social expectation, they tend to pay it and pay more in some cases. When people are made to pay a certain amount, they don't volunteer any more. Almost like people want to pay for things they want to pay for, and don't like being ordered to do so.
You can see it's wrong again when you find out about charity contributions.
Taxes are supposed to be a tip for government doing a good job. If people are trying to pay nothing, this ought to tell volumes about how little they like the service. Or how poor they are. And if you think people have to be forced to pay taxes, deep down, you also know that the services the government provides are horse shit.
Churches do this model (offering is any value, not mandatory). They usually manage to stay in business, provide there are enough members. When there is a specific crisis (e.g. flood in New Orleans), they are told to write on the Pay to the Order of part of the check the church name, and the For part New Orleans Relief. If a church can do this, despite not having government resources and technology, why can't we make touchscreens that tell the government what we want our taxes spent on? You're making excuses.
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Yes, businesses want profit.
You're the asshole who doesn't want to give it to them.
giving business to a monopoly?
no.
no i don't want to give business to a monopoly that price gouges.
just like you don't want to give taxes to a single govt entity that price gouges you.
fucking moron.
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my dad (upper-middle class, not super wealthy but able to do nice things)
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As for me, I usually avoid restaurants, as I know that I can't pay a fair tip.
your dad the pastor.
collecting voluntary tithe.
tip is also "voluntary".
yet was created as a way by restaurant industry, who lobbied to govt to make it legal, so they wouldn't have to pay their staff.
moron.
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Taxes are supposed to be a tip for government doing a good job. If people are trying to pay nothing, this ought to tell volumes about how little they like the service.
no
taxes aren't a tip to employ some monkey to walk around on tv news interviews to whine about XYZ.
fucking moron.
taxes are a fee to pay the monkey to do an actual job.
like the road people to build roads, police to police, fire to put out fires.
fucking stupid.
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why can't we make touchscreens that tell the government what we want our taxes spent on? You're making excuses.
because you live in a repbulic
where representatives campaigne on policy they want, are voted in to enact the policy.
and the collective members vote on a budget which allocated money to different causes.
churches usually have a managing board, sometimes volunteer, sometimes elected, that run the same thing.
and the logisitcally cna't put every charity up for vote, you fucking moron.
gov't usually have a grant program to distribute funds where people have to apply and request.
you're a fucking moron.
in summary
bulmba has super awesomely stupid fucking ideas and votes and his dad is a pastor and i'm pretty sure if he learned all his worldly knowledge in-house, then the whole church is also stupid.
this is why understanding Cipolla's "beware the stupid" is so important -
THE FOURGROUPS All human beings are included in four fundamental categories
The intelligent: The intelligent person knows that he’s intelligent.
The bandit : The bandit is aware to be evil.
The naïve or helpless: The naive is painfully imbued with the sense of his own candor.
The stupid : The stupid doesn’t know to be stupid. This contributes to give greater strength, incidence and effectiveness to his devastating action. The stupid is not inhibited by self-consciousness
Law 1: Everyone always and inevitably underestimates the number of stupid people in circulation.
Law 2: The probability that a person is stupid is independent of any other characteristic of that person.
Law 3. A stupid person is a person who causes losses to another person or group of people when he or she does not benefit and may even suffer losses.
Law 4: Non-stupid people always underestimate the destructive power of stupid individuals.
Law 5: A stupid person is the most dangerous type of person.
https://bonpote.com/en/the-5-basic-laws-of-human-stupidity/
The 5 basic laws of human stupidity
Society
Publication :
16/11/2019
Mis à jour :
21/06/2022
Picture of Thomas Wagner
Thomas Wagner
In 1976, Professor Cipolla published a 60-page essay describing the fundamental laws of a force he perceived as the greatest existential threat to humanity: stupidity.
He divides humanity into four main categories: Intelligent, Bandit, Helpless, Stupid. All are defined on the basis of a win/lose concept, slightly echoing the prisoner’s dilemma. The question is: what category are you in?
Law 1: Everyone always and inevitably underestimates the number of stupid people in circulation
No matter how many idiots you suspect you are surrounded by, you are invariably underestimating the total. This problem is compounded by the biased assumption that some people are intelligent because of superficial factors such as their job, education, or other characteristics that we believe rule out stupidity.
For example, Nabilla is excluded because she is a multimillionaire. And yet… This brings us to the 2nd law:
Law 2: The probability that a person is stupid is independent of any other characteristic of that person.
Cipolla postulates that stupidity is a variable that remains constant in all populations. Every category you can imagine – gender, ethnicity, nationality, education, income – has a fixed percentage of stupid people. University professors can be stupid. There are US presidents who have been and/or are stupid.
A stupid guy, accompanied by a bandit.
Finally, there are stupid people in every nation on Earth. How many idiots are there among us? Impossible to answer (500 according to the police, 3 million according to the trade unionists, 65 million according to Manu). Moreover, any assumption would certainly violate the first law.
Law 3. A stupid person is a person who causes losses to another person or group of people when he or she does not benefit and may even suffer losses.
Cipolla calls it the golden law of stupidity. A stupid person, according to the economist, is a person who causes problems for others without any clear benefit for himself. Uncle couldn’t help but post fake articles on Facebook? It is stupid. The receptionist at your hotel who keeps you on the phone for an hour, hangs up on you twice and still manages to screw up your reservation? Stupid².
This law also introduces three other phenotypes that, according to Cipolla, coexist with stupidity. First, there is the intelligent person, whose actions benefit both himself and others. Then comes the bandit, who gets rich at the expense of others. And finally, the abused, the defenseless person, whose actions enrich others at his own expense. Cipolla imagined the four types along a graph, like this:
https://sp-ao.shortpixel.ai/client/to_auto,q_glossy,ret_img,w_585/https://bonpote.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/image-10.png
Bonneteau’s lover top left, Jean Jouzel top right, Balkany bottom right, and Bush Junior bottom left.
Explanation :
if Tom takes an action and suffers a loss while producing a gain for Roman, Tom’s mark will fall in the Helpless field: Tom has been abused.
If Tom makes an action by which he makes a gain while also giving a gain to Roman, Tom’s mark will fall in the I zone: Tom has acted intelligently.
Finally, if Tom takes an action by which he makes a gain causing a loss to Roman, Tom’s mark will fall in zone B: Tom has acted like a bandit. Stupidity is related to the S-zone and all positions on the Y-axis below the O-point.
Distribution frequency
Non-stupid people are an imperfect and inconsistent group. Sometimes we act intelligently, sometimes we are abused, or selfish villains… And sometimes we are a bit of both. The stupid, in comparison, are models of consistency, acting at all times with unwavering idiocy.
However, constant stupidity is the only thing constant about stupidity. That’s what makes stupid people so dangerous. Explains Cipolla.
Essentially stupid people are dangerous and harmful because reasonable people find it difficult to imagine and understand unreasonable behavior. An intelligent person can understand the logic of a bandit. The actions of the bandit follow a pattern of rationality: a wicked rationality indeed, but always rational. The bandit wants an advantage for his account.
Since he is not smart enough to find ways to get the plus as well as provide you with a plus, he will produce his plus by making a minus appear on your account. It’s all bad, but it’s rational and if you’re rational, you can predict it. You can predict the actions of a bandit, his evil maneuvers and therefore you can build your defenses.
With a stupid person, all this is absolutely impossible, as the third fundamental law explains. The stupid person will harass you without any reason, without any advantage, without any plan, at the most improbable times and places. You have no rational way of telling if, when, where, how and why he or she will attack you. Facing a stupid individual, you are completely at his mercy.
This analysis leads to law number 4:
Law 4: Non-stupid people always underestimate the destructive power of stupid individuals.
In particular, non-stupid people constantly forget that at all times, in all places, and under all circumstances, dealing and/or associating with stupid people is always a costly mistake. We underestimate idiots, and we do so at our peril. This brings us to the fifth and final law:
Law 5: A stupid person is the most dangerous type of person.
And its direct consequence: a stupid person is more dangerous than a bandit.
We can’t do anything for idiots. The difference between societies that collapse under the weight of their stupid citizens and those that transcend them is the composition of the non-stupid. Those who progress despite their stupidity have a high proportion of people who act intelligently, those who counterbalance the losses of the stupid by bringing gains for themselves and their fellows.
Declining societies have the same percentage of stupid people as prosperous societies. But they also have a high percentage of defenseless people and, ‘an alarming proliferation of bandits with accents of stupidity‘. Hello Laurent Alexandre…
There is no defense against stupidity. The only way for a society to avoid being crushed by the burden of its idiots is for the non-stupid to work even harder to compensate for the losses of the stupid. When you draw the parallel with the environment, and some people trying to make up for other people’s bullshit, Cipolla was not far from the truth.
Ségolène Royal, who accuses the jet lag of sexism. And she almost became president…
The last word
This book had as much effect on me as reading Schopenhauer’s The Art of Being Always Right. It is very short, but terribly effective. While preparing this article, I realized that it was very easy to find the first 3 categories. Scammed ? I see them every day. A smart person, who wins and makes society wins? Easy: Jean Jouzel. Nobel Prize winner, has made his passion his life, and does everything to make the world more ecological. I also think of any writer who allows us to escape from our daily lives. Sylvain Tesson spoke about his book ‘In the forests of Siberia’ as a remedy… Well, while I buy your book and allow you to live on, you are my remedy when I take the subway in the morning for my bullshit job.
Bandits? Think of the Balkanys. On the other hand, a stupid person is extremely rare. Except for my former colleague who assured me that Hiroshima took place during the Vietnam War, I thought of no one. But this goes back to the first law of stupidity: everyone always and inevitably underestimates the number of stupid people in circulation.
