Intercontinental ballistic missile

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Re: Intercontinental ballistic missile
« Reply #1170 on: January 31, 2019, 08:18:19 AM »

Ultimately, it doesn't matter what they were.  The fact is they rose vertically as I described.  Whether it traveled 1000 miles or 1 mile down range it still did what you say is impossible.  Millions have witnessed these launches for decades.  The sooner you accept that reality the better.  As a matter of fact, you can go see it yourself. 

But, since you haven't seen it live, you don't really know what happens.  You only have a theory.

Mike
Yes I only have a theory. But guess what? That's all you have.

It's all about what is more plausible.
I go with what I say any day against you thinking 3000 ton rockets just launch at bicycle speed.
I'm sorry but you're wrong.  I have much more than theory.  I've been there and seen it. 

I and millions of other people have actual experience.  Your theory is contrary to witnessed reality. 

Mike
What have you seen and at what distance?

Describe what you have seen, physically and as to what it was you saw.
Don't just say it was such and such a rocket if you couldn't make it out to be that.
I don't want you telling me you saw a certain launch just because you were told it was this rocket but you have no way to physically verify it.
I saw three shuttle launches when I was stationed in Florida.  I saw two from land and the third from a friend’s boat.  I couldn’t see the launchpad from the boat and one of the land launches.  One of the launches I witnessed from land I could see most of the shuttle as it sat on the launchpad.  Both the launches and could see it from the point of liftoff.  The third I couldn't see until it cleared trees.  For all three I was close enough it was clearly the space shuttle and to make out the individual components...e.g. the shuttle, the solid boosters, and the external fuel tank

They rose slowly, climbed, and accelerated as it went.  Just as you can see them on any YouTube video.


Also I'm sure if you saw it clearly with your own eyes then you would have photo's or video of it much clearer than what you saw with your own eyes.
If you're pushing your narrative then provide the proof of you being there.

You're under no obligation to do this but you're stating something as a fact, so prove it. Let me examine the footage.
I was at a Navy school at the time.  I lived in the barracks so I left my camera, as well as other valuables, at home in New Jersey so I didn’t take any pictures.  And, this was in 1981-1982 so I didn’t have any video equipment.  Thirty seven years ago it never occurred to me that I would need to prove what I saw.

Or you can be honest with me and tell me that you've seen something launch but you have no real clue as to what, except what you were told launched.
So again, you clearly consider anyone who has seen a launch and can tell what it is, to be dishonest.  Why don’t you get off your judgemental ass and test it out with the equipment I linked to earlier in the thread.  I’ve done it, other people have done it, and if you won’t then you don’t have a leg to stand on.  The fact is you’re just plain wrong and reality is the proof and if you have the guts to test it you'll see for yourself.

Describe the launch, the shape, he speed, etc from your perspective.
I did above.

Mike
Pretty hard to take you serious. I reckon I could mention anything at all, even something about the centre of Earth and you'll have been there with your binocks.
I don't buy into your answers. It's weak.
I simply answered your question.  And, I've never asked you to "buy" anything.  Quite the contrary.  More than once, I've told you I didn't expect you to believe me because what I've posted is easily verified by testing it.  I've also explained in detail how you can do it and I've provided sources for all the materials need.  Your only reply was "A model rocket won't show me real world tests, except for showing how a rocket attains constant velocity in extreme short order. No acceleration vertically".  The fact that there is no evidence to physically support my claims is on you, not me. 

Additionally, you claim denpressure is "just a theory" and you are not stating it as fact but rather just "your opinion"; when the truth is you believe it to be and present it as fact.  When you post "Or you can be honest with me..." you are clearly telling me any other answer would, in your eyes, be dishonest.  Any reasonable person reading this thread cold can only come to one conclusion.  That you present denpressure as fact and everything posted to the contrary you consider unsupportable and therefore dishonest...in other words a lie. 

One could argue that you are the one being dishonest; being dishonest when you claim you are only presenting denpressure as your opinion, are being dishonest when you avoid testing your hypothesis and then claim that you don't need to because you already know what the result would be if you did. 

Why did you even bother asking me to provide pictures/video as evidence of the launches?  It would've been pointless.  We both know that you would either say it doesn't show anything that contradicts your claims or that it just plain couldn't be trusted.  That's a stone cold fact and if you were honest you'd admit it.

Mike
Since it costs 1.82¢ to produce a penny, putting in your 2¢ if really worth 3.64¢.

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Mikey T.

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Re: Intercontinental ballistic missile
« Reply #1171 on: January 31, 2019, 08:35:40 AM »
Spend a day, a week, a month, a year away and the stupidest flat Earth ideas are still put forth without a single shread of verifiable evidence.  We try to inform you of how to do testing, you complain that it costs money, you don't have time, the makers of the sensors and equipment are in on the conspiracy, etc.  Never once trying to test your own theories, just insulting others for questioning your clearly idiotic statements.  Flat Earth is a mental illness, it has to be.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Intercontinental ballistic missile
« Reply #1172 on: January 31, 2019, 08:40:12 AM »
I simply answered your question.  And, I've never asked you to "buy" anything.  Quite the contrary.  More than once, I've told you I didn't expect you to believe me because what I've posted is easily verified by testing it.
Verifying what?
I saw a springboard launch that lasted for a short while longer than I predicted (few seconds).
I saw nothing else that went against anything I mentioned.
The thing is, you are trying to sell me something. You're trying to sell me the story behind this rocket as if you know all about it and yet you admitted you've never been near it.

Quote from: MicroBeta
I've also explained in detail how you can do it and I've provided sources for all the materials need.  Your only reply was "A model rocket won't show me real world tests, except for showing how a rocket attains constant velocity in extreme short order. No acceleration vertically".  The fact that there is no evidence to physically support my claims is on you, not me.
I can read/follow instruction. But what am I actually reading that makes any reality for what I'm arguing against?
 
Quote from: MicroBeta
Additionally, you claim denpressure is "just a theory" and you are not stating it as fact but rather just "your opinion"; when the truth is you believe it to be and present it as fact.
I present it as a forceful theory against a tirade of forecul theories presented as fact by the mainstream science world, including people like you who back it up for no other reason than a reliance on a theory being a fact with no legitimate evidence. So it's pointless trying to tell me what I'm doing. I stick by my stuff, regardless, because I believe it's closer to the truth than gravity ever will be.

Quote from: MicroBeta
  When you post "Or you can be honest with me..." you are clearly telling me any other answer would, in your eyes, be dishonest.  Any reasonable person reading this thread cold can only come to one conclusion.  That you present denpressure as fact and everything posted to the contrary you consider unsupportable and therefore dishonest...in other words a lie.
I'm asking you to be honest in what you explain about ICBM's and such, because it seems you've been first hand to everything I speak against and think you can use it as some kind of tool to push something as fact when you don't know that when I pulled you up on it.
 
Quote from: MicroBeta
One could argue that you are the one being dishonest; being dishonest when you claim you are only presenting denpressure as your opinion, are being dishonest when you avoid testing your hypothesis and then claim that you don't need to because you already know what the result would be if you did.
It's my hypothesis and I've done quite a few tests that back it up. My tests destroy gravity.
I'm happy with what they prove to me. What they prove to you is, nothing because you are not in any mind to accept anything that goes against mainstream ideals.
 
Quote from: MicroBeta
Why did you even bother asking me to provide pictures/video as evidence of the launches?  It would've been pointless.  We both know that you would either say it doesn't show anything that contradicts your claims or that it just plain couldn't be trusted.  That's a stone cold fact and if you were honest you'd admit it.

Mike
I wanted to see what pictures you could provide that nailed your side to your mast. You provided nothing that does that.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Intercontinental ballistic missile
« Reply #1173 on: January 31, 2019, 08:42:55 AM »
Spend a day, a week, a month, a year away and the stupidest flat Earth ideas are still put forth without a single shread of verifiable evidence.  We try to inform you of how to do testing, you complain that it costs money, you don't have time, the makers of the sensors and equipment are in on the conspiracy, etc.  Never once trying to test your own theories, just insulting others for questioning your clearly idiotic statements.  Flat Earth is a mental illness, it has to be.
It's strange that because I provide you with the means to test and it doesn't cost a fortune and in fact costs about a £1 $1 or whatever if the so called scientists have an evacuation chamber.
But guess what?
Nobody wants to do any tests. It all goes quiet and instead people argue against my tests saying they don't prove anything. That is absolute dishonesty, so don't be coming that nonsense.

Re: Intercontinental ballistic missile
« Reply #1174 on: January 31, 2019, 09:49:42 AM »
Bet you cant draw a simple and basic diagram to illustrate your longwinded description

He really shouldn’t need a diagram if he has the concept nailed.

The spring argument defeats itself. There will certainly be a recoil. Who has not ever fired an air gun?
The operative word is "air" gun.

Quote from: Didymus

He’s had it explained to him twice now, once with, and once without a diagram.
He still doesn’t get it. Or rather can not get it due to confirmation bias, hypothesis lock, or whatever you like to call it: rockets can not work in a vacuum and that’s it.
Otherwise it’s one domino in the chain falling.
Of course I've had it explained. The explanation is 100% wrong.
You lot are being duped and you can't/won't see it.
I've explained what really happens and that should be clear to anyone who cares to want to know reality.
What’s the point about air gun?
The spring being released gives a recoil. So what you said about the spring being released not giving a recoil is wrong.
And:
Newton’s third law is how many percent wrong?

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JCM

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Re: Intercontinental ballistic missile
« Reply #1175 on: January 31, 2019, 10:00:07 AM »
SCEPtimatic, you think all the people watching the launches are rent a crowd?  Vertical air ships?  You need to clarify.

That plane is a cruising height , that rocket goes far higher then the plane is.  Where is the fakery? 

Another one...  where are the vertical airships? Where is the fakery?  That rocket is obviously far heighten then the airplane.

And another one.

This one is watching it on TV, turns the camera to the window of the plane.  What more evidence do you need?

I can find more.  Hundreds more.  All made by amateurs.  Where are these vertical ships? Please explain what these people are seeing..  from an airplane...

Sceptimatic you asked which videos are from an airplane. Here are a few. The last video is with the live news showing the shuttle launch at the same time on the airplane monitors

Re: Intercontinental ballistic missile
« Reply #1176 on: January 31, 2019, 11:33:49 AM »
Spend a day, a week, a month, a year away and the stupidest flat Earth ideas are still put forth without a single shread of verifiable evidence.  We try to inform you of how to do testing, you complain that it costs money, you don't have time, the makers of the sensors and equipment are in on the conspiracy, etc.  Never once trying to test your own theories, just insulting others for questioning your clearly idiotic statements.  Flat Earth is a mental illness, it has to be.
It's strange that because I provide you with the means to test and it doesn't cost a fortune and in fact costs about a £1 $1 or whatever if the so called scientists have an evacuation chamber.
But guess what?
Nobody wants to do any tests. It all goes quiet and instead people argue against my tests saying they don't prove anything. That is absolute dishonesty, so don't be coming that nonsense.

Post it to youtube.
Lets see it.

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Stash

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Re: Intercontinental ballistic missile
« Reply #1177 on: January 31, 2019, 01:17:02 PM »
Spend a day, a week, a month, a year away and the stupidest flat Earth ideas are still put forth without a single shread of verifiable evidence.  We try to inform you of how to do testing, you complain that it costs money, you don't have time, the makers of the sensors and equipment are in on the conspiracy, etc.  Never once trying to test your own theories, just insulting others for questioning your clearly idiotic statements.  Flat Earth is a mental illness, it has to be.
It's strange that because I provide you with the means to test and it doesn't cost a fortune and in fact costs about a £1 $1 or whatever if the so called scientists have an evacuation chamber.
But guess what?
Nobody wants to do any tests. It all goes quiet and instead people argue against my tests saying they don't prove anything. That is absolute dishonesty, so don't be coming that nonsense.

The only test I've seen you mention involves a vacuum chamber, coffee can lid, some necklace beads and a motor to spin the lid. Are there other tests you've performed? If so, describe them. What were the results? Can we see any of these tests you performed on YT by you or someone else? Are there any papers by others out there about the tests that are similar to the ones you have performed we can look at?

You keep on saying things like, I paraphrase, "the tests I have performed destroy gravity, rockets, etc." Yet you never tell us what those tests/experiments were let alone what the results were. It's like you're hiding something.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2019, 06:11:51 PM by Stash »

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Mikey T.

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Re: Intercontinental ballistic missile
« Reply #1178 on: January 31, 2019, 01:48:32 PM »
Spend a day, a week, a month, a year away and the stupidest flat Earth ideas are still put forth without a single shread of verifiable evidence.  We try to inform you of how to do testing, you complain that it costs money, you don't have time, the makers of the sensors and equipment are in on the conspiracy, etc.  Never once trying to test your own theories, just insulting others for questioning your clearly idiotic statements.  Flat Earth is a mental illness, it has to be.
It's strange that because I provide you with the means to test and it doesn't cost a fortune and in fact costs about a £1 $1 or whatever if the so called scientists have an evacuation chamber.
But guess what?
Nobody wants to do any tests. It all goes quiet and instead people argue against my tests saying they don't prove anything. That is absolute dishonesty, so don't be coming that nonsense.
Please link the conversation where you told me how to test your idiocy?  Also, you have to test for what you claim, ignore the counter argument, if you say pressure causes things to be pushed down then when pressure is removed from a chamber whatever inside said chamber should reduce in weight.  I seem to remember someone showing you this with a small vacuum chamber, a weight, and a scale.  Your response was to blather about the trueness of the vacuum chamber.  We, as in you and I have not engaged in such discussions as you are an idiot and do not understand testing things.  You are content to wallow in your mental deficiency and continuously claim that anything that highlights said mental damage is nothing more than a conspiracy.  Newsflash, you are not important enough to warrant a conspiracy against you.  Hell this amount of discourse with me is beyond your worth.  Feel blessed I chose to speak to you.

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markjo

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Re: Intercontinental ballistic missile
« Reply #1179 on: January 31, 2019, 05:51:26 PM »
I've done enough simple experiments to prove rockets do not work as you people say. That's more than enough to show where the duping lies.
Oh?  Would you care to tell us more about these "simple experiments"?

You're just gate keeping and I understand that. The more you do it, the more I explain.... and the more that people who can think for themselves get to look over. It's all good.
Thinking for yourself doesn't necessarily mean that you're right and everyone else is wrong.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

Re: Intercontinental ballistic missile
« Reply #1180 on: January 31, 2019, 08:44:58 PM »

It appears that your have all missed  it in the video at 38:16


Thy use stream to get the rocket out of the water, at which time the rocket engines engages. Watch the video carefully, and you will see this.
It just gets better and better.
So this rocket actually ignites and burns inside this sub and super heats water into steam.
Seriously?
It's even worse than I imagined it to be.
The fantasy knows no bounds.
Sorry about the late comeback,
Did you go back and watch the video. And see how the steam is applied, that pushes the rocket out of the tub and into the air, at which time the rocket engines start?
The the universe has no obligation to makes sense to you.
The earth is a globe.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Intercontinental ballistic missile
« Reply #1181 on: January 31, 2019, 10:16:02 PM »
Bet you cant draw a simple and basic diagram to illustrate your longwinded description

He really shouldn’t need a diagram if he has the concept nailed.

The spring argument defeats itself. There will certainly be a recoil. Who has not ever fired an air gun?
The operative word is "air" gun.

Quote from: Didymus

He’s had it explained to him twice now, once with, and once without a diagram.
He still doesn’t get it. Or rather can not get it due to confirmation bias, hypothesis lock, or whatever you like to call it: rockets can not work in a vacuum and that’s it.
Otherwise it’s one domino in the chain falling.
Of course I've had it explained. The explanation is 100% wrong.
You lot are being duped and you can't/won't see it.
I've explained what really happens and that should be clear to anyone who cares to want to know reality.
What’s the point about air gun?
The spring being released gives a recoil. So what you said about the spring being released not giving a recoil is wrong.
And:
Newton’s third law is how many percent wrong?
Try the spring in your hand like I said and you'll have that experiment literally in your own hand, so no need to argue that one.
As for the air gun. It's the spring that is compressed which locks inside ready for release against a piston to force air onto the pellet to compress it against it.
That's your recoil.

As for Newton's 3rd law. The law of action and equal and opposite reaction is only true if there's a resistance for action and a resistance for reaction. It has to start by using applied energy which requires a resistance in itself then the resultant equal reaction to that resistance which is the result of that energy applied.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Intercontinental ballistic missile
« Reply #1182 on: January 31, 2019, 10:23:22 PM »
SCEPtimatic, you think all the people watching the launches are rent a crowd?  Vertical air ships?  You need to clarify.

That plane is a cruising height , that rocket goes far higher then the plane is.  Where is the fakery? 

Another one...  where are the vertical airships? Where is the fakery?  That rocket is obviously far heighten then the airplane.

And another one.

This one is watching it on TV, turns the camera to the window of the plane.  What more evidence do you need?

I can find more.  Hundreds more.  All made by amateurs.  Where are these vertical ships? Please explain what these people are seeing..  from an airplane...

Sceptimatic you asked which videos are from an airplane. Here are a few. The last video is with the live news showing the shuttle launch at the same time on the airplane monitors
Let me know when someone has the mindset to zoom in.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Intercontinental ballistic missile
« Reply #1183 on: January 31, 2019, 10:26:58 PM »
Spend a day, a week, a month, a year away and the stupidest flat Earth ideas are still put forth without a single shread of verifiable evidence.  We try to inform you of how to do testing, you complain that it costs money, you don't have time, the makers of the sensors and equipment are in on the conspiracy, etc.  Never once trying to test your own theories, just insulting others for questioning your clearly idiotic statements.  Flat Earth is a mental illness, it has to be.
It's strange that because I provide you with the means to test and it doesn't cost a fortune and in fact costs about a £1 $1 or whatever if the so called scientists have an evacuation chamber.
But guess what?
Nobody wants to do any tests. It all goes quiet and instead people argue against my tests saying they don't prove anything. That is absolute dishonesty, so don't be coming that nonsense.

The only test I've seen you mention involves a vacuum chamber, coffee can lid, some necklace beads and a motor to spin the lid. Are there other tests you've performed? If so, describe them. What were the results? Can we see any of these tests you performed on YT by you or someone else? Are there any papers by others out there about the tests that are similar to the ones you have performed we can look at?

You keep on saying things like, I paraphrase, "the tests I have performed destroy gravity, rockets, etc." Yet you never tell us what those tests/experiments were let alone what the results were. It's like you're hiding something.
If you don't want to perform the tests then don't. It's no skin off my nose and I'm not the one that needs to prove anything to the likes of you. No offence but you are not important to me to care whether you do the experiment.
The people that I do have time for are those that are willing to see what the tests prove against what you people push.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Intercontinental ballistic missile
« Reply #1184 on: January 31, 2019, 10:30:14 PM »
Spend a day, a week, a month, a year away and the stupidest flat Earth ideas are still put forth without a single shread of verifiable evidence.  We try to inform you of how to do testing, you complain that it costs money, you don't have time, the makers of the sensors and equipment are in on the conspiracy, etc.  Never once trying to test your own theories, just insulting others for questioning your clearly idiotic statements.  Flat Earth is a mental illness, it has to be.
It's strange that because I provide you with the means to test and it doesn't cost a fortune and in fact costs about a £1 $1 or whatever if the so called scientists have an evacuation chamber.
But guess what?
Nobody wants to do any tests. It all goes quiet and instead people argue against my tests saying they don't prove anything. That is absolute dishonesty, so don't be coming that nonsense.
Please link the conversation where you told me how to test your idiocy?  Also, you have to test for what you claim, ignore the counter argument, if you say pressure causes things to be pushed down then when pressure is removed from a chamber whatever inside said chamber should reduce in weight.  I seem to remember someone showing you this with a small vacuum chamber, a weight, and a scale.  Your response was to blather about the trueness of the vacuum chamber.  We, as in you and I have not engaged in such discussions as you are an idiot and do not understand testing things.  You are content to wallow in your mental deficiency and continuously claim that anything that highlights said mental damage is nothing more than a conspiracy.  Newsflash, you are not important enough to warrant a conspiracy against you.  Hell this amount of discourse with me is beyond your worth.  Feel blessed I chose to speak to you.
Keep yapping Mr yapper. Name calling will get you a long way in your world with those who actually care what you say. In my world you are stood still, like a statue with movable lips that can give the ambling person like me a small chuckle as I walk past.  ;D
Put some effort in or sit back and wallow in your own tish.

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Stash

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Re: Intercontinental ballistic missile
« Reply #1185 on: January 31, 2019, 10:42:52 PM »
Spend a day, a week, a month, a year away and the stupidest flat Earth ideas are still put forth without a single shread of verifiable evidence.  We try to inform you of how to do testing, you complain that it costs money, you don't have time, the makers of the sensors and equipment are in on the conspiracy, etc.  Never once trying to test your own theories, just insulting others for questioning your clearly idiotic statements.  Flat Earth is a mental illness, it has to be.
It's strange that because I provide you with the means to test and it doesn't cost a fortune and in fact costs about a £1 $1 or whatever if the so called scientists have an evacuation chamber.
But guess what?
Nobody wants to do any tests. It all goes quiet and instead people argue against my tests saying they don't prove anything. That is absolute dishonesty, so don't be coming that nonsense.

The only test I've seen you mention involves a vacuum chamber, coffee can lid, some necklace beads and a motor to spin the lid. Are there other tests you've performed? If so, describe them. What were the results? Can we see any of these tests you performed on YT by you or someone else? Are there any papers by others out there about the tests that are similar to the ones you have performed we can look at?

You keep on saying things like, I paraphrase, "the tests I have performed destroy gravity, rockets, etc." Yet you never tell us what those tests/experiments were let alone what the results were. It's like you're hiding something.

If you don't want to perform the tests then don't. It's no skin off my nose and I'm not the one that needs to prove anything to the likes of you. No offence but you are not important to me to care whether you do the experiment.
The people that I do have time for are those that are willing to see what the tests prove against what you people push.

Wow, you really are trying to hide something. When asked for a description of the tests/experiments you claimed to have performed and their results that prove your claims you answer with "If you don't want to perform the tests then don't."

It's pretty hard to determine if I want to do the tests or not considering I don't know what they are b/c you won't tell anyone what they are even when asked repeatedly what they are.

What are you so afraid of in revealing what your tests are?

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rabinoz

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Re: Intercontinental ballistic missile
« Reply #1186 on: January 31, 2019, 11:36:36 PM »
As for Newton's 3rd law. The law of action and equal and opposite reaction is only true if there's a resistance for action and a resistance for reaction. It has to start by using applied energy which requires a resistance in itself then the resultant equal reaction to that resistance which is the result of that energy applied.
So now you claim to know better than Newton and most concerned with recoil in any form since.
Newton's First Law was clearly forshadowed be René Descartes
Quote
the great French philosopher, who would add new depth and dimension to inertial motion. In his "Principles of Philosophy," Descartes proposed three laws of nature. The first law states "that each thing, as far as is in its power, always remains in the same state; and that consequently, when it is once moved, it always continues to move." The second holds that "all movement is, of itself, along straight lines." This is Newton's first law, clearly stated in a book published in 1644 -- when Newton was still a newborn!
And Newton's three Laws of Motion are all embodied in his very clear and simple second law, F = ma.

There is no mention of "only true if there's a resistance for action and a resistance for reaction. It has to start by using applied energy which requires a resistance in itself then the resultant equal reaction to that resistance which is the result of that energy applied".
The idea of "resistance" never comes into it and is not needed.

So until you provide proof, I don't see why anyone should take the slightest bit of notice of your claims.

What you refuse to acknowledge is that all of these "Laws" were based on a great deal of experimental work by Galilee Galileo, Robert Hooke and Isaac Newton before they were published.
But you've simply dragged your hypotheses out of your imagination with no real experimental work or measurements.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Intercontinental ballistic missile
« Reply #1187 on: February 01, 2019, 01:45:21 AM »
I've done enough simple experiments to prove rockets do not work as you people say. That's more than enough to show where the duping lies.
Oh?  Would you care to tell us more about these "simple experiments"?
You've been on long enough to know what experiments they were. You have the ability to perform every one so there should be no excuses needed.

Quote from: markjo
You're just gate keeping and I understand that. The more you do it, the more I explain.... and the more that people who can think for themselves get to look over. It's all good.
Thinking for yourself doesn't necessarily mean that you're right and everyone else is wrong.
I never said it did, but following a narrative does not make what you follow, a fact, does it?

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sceptimatic

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Re: Intercontinental ballistic missile
« Reply #1188 on: February 01, 2019, 01:48:50 AM »

It appears that your have all missed  it in the video at 38:16


Thy use stream to get the rocket out of the water, at which time the rocket engines engages. Watch the video carefully, and you will see this.
It just gets better and better.
So this rocket actually ignites and burns inside this sub and super heats water into steam.
Seriously?
It's even worse than I imagined it to be.
The fantasy knows no bounds.
Sorry about the late comeback,
Did you go back and watch the video. And see how the steam is applied, that pushes the rocket out of the tub and into the air, at which time the rocket engines start?
I see a cartoon of it. Is that real? If so can you show me the real version?

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sceptimatic

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Re: Intercontinental ballistic missile
« Reply #1189 on: February 01, 2019, 01:54:30 AM »
Spend a day, a week, a month, a year away and the stupidest flat Earth ideas are still put forth without a single shread of verifiable evidence.  We try to inform you of how to do testing, you complain that it costs money, you don't have time, the makers of the sensors and equipment are in on the conspiracy, etc.  Never once trying to test your own theories, just insulting others for questioning your clearly idiotic statements.  Flat Earth is a mental illness, it has to be.
It's strange that because I provide you with the means to test and it doesn't cost a fortune and in fact costs about a £1 $1 or whatever if the so called scientists have an evacuation chamber.
But guess what?
Nobody wants to do any tests. It all goes quiet and instead people argue against my tests saying they don't prove anything. That is absolute dishonesty, so don't be coming that nonsense.

The only test I've seen you mention involves a vacuum chamber, coffee can lid, some necklace beads and a motor to spin the lid. Are there other tests you've performed? If so, describe them. What were the results? Can we see any of these tests you performed on YT by you or someone else? Are there any papers by others out there about the tests that are similar to the ones you have performed we can look at?

You keep on saying things like, I paraphrase, "the tests I have performed destroy gravity, rockets, etc." Yet you never tell us what those tests/experiments were let alone what the results were. It's like you're hiding something.

If you don't want to perform the tests then don't. It's no skin off my nose and I'm not the one that needs to prove anything to the likes of you. No offence but you are not important to me to care whether you do the experiment.
The people that I do have time for are those that are willing to see what the tests prove against what you people push.

Wow, you really are trying to hide something. When asked for a description of the tests/experiments you claimed to have performed and their results that prove your claims you answer with "If you don't want to perform the tests then don't."

It's pretty hard to determine if I want to do the tests or not considering I don't know what they are b/c you won't tell anyone what they are even when asked repeatedly what they are.

What are you so afraid of in revealing what your tests are?
The experiments are all there for you to do. They are all there for you to do....or don't do. I have nothing to hide. Why should I?

I'll reiterate what I said.
If you're honest with yourself you can do the experiments against what you've been told to believe and accepted and see what results you get.

The honesty part is entirely up to you.
You can pretend to do the experiments and come back arguing that they don;t prove anything or you can actually do the experiments and see that they do prove what I'm saying but deny it anyway. Or you can literally be honest and do the experiments and actually admit what they prove is against what you were indoctrinated into.

The choice is yours. Do what you feel you want to do. None of what you do will alter my mindset on what I believe in.

*

sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 30061
Re: Intercontinental ballistic missile
« Reply #1190 on: February 01, 2019, 02:01:00 AM »
As for Newton's 3rd law. The law of action and equal and opposite reaction is only true if there's a resistance for action and a resistance for reaction. It has to start by using applied energy which requires a resistance in itself then the resultant equal reaction to that resistance which is the result of that energy applied.
So now you claim to know better than Newton and most concerned with recoil in any form since.
Newton's First Law was clearly forshadowed be René Descartes
Quote
the great French philosopher, who would add new depth and dimension to inertial motion. In his "Principles of Philosophy," Descartes proposed three laws of nature. The first law states "that each thing, as far as is in its power, always remains in the same state; and that consequently, when it is once moved, it always continues to move." The second holds that "all movement is, of itself, along straight lines." This is Newton's first law, clearly stated in a book published in 1644 -- when Newton was still a newborn!
And Newton's three Laws of Motion are all embodied in his very clear and simple second law, F = ma.

There is no mention of "only true if there's a resistance for action and a resistance for reaction. It has to start by using applied energy which requires a resistance in itself then the resultant equal reaction to that resistance which is the result of that energy applied".
The idea of "resistance" never comes into it and is not needed.

So until you provide proof, I don't see why anyone should take the slightest bit of notice of your claims.

What you refuse to acknowledge is that all of these "Laws" were based on a great deal of experimental work by Galilee Galileo, Robert Hooke and Isaac Newton before they were published.
But you've simply dragged your hypotheses out of your imagination with no real experimental work or measurements.
The laws are skewed. They do not represent reality at all.
They leave out the primary ingredient which is resistance, like I've said.
This should not be an issue for anyone who has the ability to think on it and understand it. It's simple but that's just the major problem with it. It's so simple and actually destroys what we're all indoctrinated into and basically forced to accept.

The laws are obscure in the extreme when looked at in a rational sense.

Just remember this word.....RESISTANCE..... and it kills off all of that nonsense we've been gullible enough to be indoctrinated/forced into.

*

rabinoz

  • 26528
  • Real Earth Believer
Re: Intercontinental ballistic missile
« Reply #1191 on: February 01, 2019, 02:09:47 AM »
Sceptimatic, you might find some of this enterning, especially the collapsing SM-65 Atlas missile at about 4:40:

Why SpaceX ditched lightweight Carbon Composites for Stainless Steel to make a sweaty Starship, Everyday Astronaut.

*

rabinoz

  • 26528
  • Real Earth Believer
Re: Intercontinental ballistic missile
« Reply #1192 on: February 01, 2019, 02:39:35 AM »
The laws are skewed. They do not represent reality at all.
They leave out the primary ingredient which is resistance, like I've said.
No! Newton's Laws represent reality almost perfectly and you've never proven otherwise.
I know you've claimed otherwise but never proven your case!
You've just voiced your own opinion numerous times but repeating an error does not make it any less an error.

Quote from: sceptimatic
This should not be an issue for anyone who has the ability to think on it and understand it. It's simple but that's just the major problem with it.
It isn't "an issue for anyone who has the ability to think on it and understand it" but you base your ideas on nothing more than your imagination.

Quote from: sceptimatic
It's so simple and actually destroys what we're all indoctrinated into and basically forced to accept.
Now you resort to your ridiculous "we're all indoctrinated into and basically forced to accept". I've been forced to accept nothing!
But where is your evidence that it "actually destroys what we're all . . . . ."

Quote from: sceptimatic
The laws are obscure in the extreme when looked at in a rational sense.
How could anyone with the slightest understanding claim that force = mass x acceleration is "obscure in the extreme when looked at in a rational sense."
Because all three of Newton's Laws of Motion are included in that one simple expression.

Quote from: sceptimatic
Just remember this word.....RESISTANCE..... and it kills off all of that nonsense we've been gullible enough to be indoctrinated/forced into.
Remember that I said,  "So until you provide proof, I don't see why anyone should take the slightest bit of notice of your claims".
We,  you've provided no proof that any RESISTANCE is involved so I'll ignore all you say till you do!

Try again, but with some evidence next time.

Re: Intercontinental ballistic missile
« Reply #1193 on: February 01, 2019, 03:19:00 AM »
Bet you cant draw a simple and basic diagram to illustrate your longwinded description

He really shouldn’t need a diagram if he has the concept nailed.

The spring argument defeats itself. There will certainly be a recoil. Who has not ever fired an air gun?
The operative word is "air" gun.

Quote from: Didymus

He’s had it explained to him twice now, once with, and once without a diagram.
He still doesn’t get it. Or rather can not get it due to confirmation bias, hypothesis lock, or whatever you like to call it: rockets can not work in a vacuum and that’s it.
Otherwise it’s one domino in the chain falling.
Of course I've had it explained. The explanation is 100% wrong.
You lot are being duped and you can't/won't see it.
I've explained what really happens and that should be clear to anyone who cares to want to know reality.
What’s the point about air gun?
The spring being released gives a recoil. So what you said about the spring being released not giving a recoil is wrong.
And:
Newton’s third law is how many percent wrong?
Try the spring in your hand like I said and you'll have that experiment literally in your own hand, so no need to argue that one.
As for the air gun. It's the spring that is compressed which locks inside ready for release against a piston to force air onto the pellet to compress it against it.
That's your recoil.


As for Newton's 3rd law. The law of action and equal and opposite reaction is only true if there's a resistance for action and a resistance for reaction. It has to start by using applied energy which requires a resistance in itself then the resultant equal reaction to that resistance which is the result of that energy applied.

We're just trying to help you here.
You do know the difference between a £3000 gas powered match rifle and a £100 Chinese springer don't you?
Both have air coming out of the end.
In the case of the expensive one there's almost no recoil. That's partly the point.
The cheap spring gun rattles like an old tin can, and the kick is quite strong.
This contradicts both your points at the same time:
The release of a spring will give a reaction.
It has nothing to do with pushing on air.
You would get a recoil from a cocked spring gun in a vacuum.

As for Newton. Just no, as Rab pointed out.

*

sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 30061
Re: Intercontinental ballistic missile
« Reply #1194 on: February 01, 2019, 03:45:39 AM »
Sceptimatic, you might find some of this enterning, especially the collapsing SM-65 Atlas missile at about 4:40:

Why SpaceX ditched lightweight Carbon Composites for Stainless Steel to make a sweaty Starship, Everyday Astronaut.
I thank you sincerely for that. It's probably one of the most intuitive videos out there for showing just how we are being duped and how we are now being set up to accept so called thin skinned rockets with so called inflatable tanks inside. I'm actually laughing. I think it actually tells it's own story of the dupe.
Surely people can see this. I know you won't, Rab, I wouldn't expect that of you.

It makes a lot of sense as to why the rockets move at bicycle speed.

*

sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 30061
Re: Intercontinental ballistic missile
« Reply #1195 on: February 01, 2019, 03:50:01 AM »
How could anyone with the slightest understanding claim that force = mass x acceleration is "obscure in the extreme when looked at in a rational sense."
Because all three of Newton's Laws of Motion are included in that one simple expression.


f=ma is fine but it's what it really represents.

Force requires a resistance to become a force to push mass against a resistance to accelerate it. That resistance is atmospheric resistance, as well as ground resistance.

So, if the laws just apply to this with nothing else added then I have no issues with it.
Is this the case?

*

JackBlack

  • 21870
Re: Intercontinental ballistic missile
« Reply #1196 on: February 01, 2019, 03:55:31 AM »
Yep it rises quite slowly and that should be all you ever need to know about how it's a gimmick because a real rocket would certainly not rise slowly.
Why not?
You are yet to substantiate that claim in any way.

For a simple example, look at your balloon car video. It uses similar principles to a rocket, but look at how slow it goes.

it's pretty clear as to what that is.
Yes it is, real rockets. There is no indication it is CGI at all.

Gimmicks would naturally be able to be set up to do this in various ways for the enjoyment of those looking on from miles away or on TV, etc..
Then explain how they work if they aren't rockets.

Anyway on a more serious note, you're describing a car engine with regular explosions to move pistons. Mechanical movement.
Your rocket has none of this. It requires none of this.
A rocket works on very similar principles. In the car engine you have high pressure gas pushing outwards which causes the piston to move. In a rocket you have the same situation, and it cause the rocket to be move. The main difference is that in a car the explosion is contained so there is no overall movement of the engine directly from the explosion, but in a rocket it isn't contained so the hot gas flies out.

Thew only real efficient way for a rocket to do what is needed is for it NOT to have engines but to actually mix fuel and oxidiser as a solid fuel which creates a huge BURN for thrust.
Again, that would be a solid rocket engine. It is effectively an explosion.

But perhaps more importantly, why use solid fuel?
If you have 2 substances, with the same mass of each, and burn them (or explode them) they can (and typically do) release significantly different amounts of energy.
The same applies when you take the mass of oxygen into consideration as well.

A good example of this is ethane vs ethanol or methane vs methanol. That is because the alcohol is already partially oxidised and thus has already lost some of that energy.
Or as an extreme example, hydrogen and water. Hydrogen releases a lot of energy when it burns. Water can't burn.

You then have other concerns as well. You don't want it to all ignite at once, and instead want a fairly constant burn.
That means a high explosive (at least when acting as a high explosive) would not be good, but a low explosive might be, as would gasses you can pump in. Solid fuel also has the issue of needing a binder.

Hydrogen is one of the best fuels for a rocket in terms of energy density, and oxygen is one of the best oxidisers. The extra weight needed for the tanks is offset by the higher energy density.

You need the nozzles for control of the rocket and to provide more efficiency.

The medicine ball displaces a lot more atmosphere than the beach ball which is made up of mostly atmosphere.
As we have been over repeatedly, if the atmosphere was the issue the ball would stop dead as soon as you release it.
It clearly isn't.

Additionally, every object would have the same terminal velocity and would stop just as fast when thrown in air.

You see, this wouldn't work against a stack under the ball if you were to throw the ball down
It would work the same.

There's no magical push from inside the balloon.
That's right. That is because it isn't magic.
The pressure inside the balloon is greater than outside the balloon. This results in a force on the skin of the balloon trying to push it outwards.
With the balloon sealed, this is balanced and the net force is 0.
When you have a hole in the balloon (including the opening and/or through a straw, but only a single opening) then the force is certain to not be balanced, and this results in a net force on the balloon. No atmosphere is required and there is no means for the atmosphere to magically push the balloon forwards.

The open nozzle results in an unbalanced system which is how it can move in the first place.

Ok so in the so called space analogy if we released our fingers fully to allow the spring to expand, you will clearly notice there is no recoil back to your hand. The spring will simply expand out in front by whatever distance it can stretch and your hand is in the same position without any force upon it.
No. We notice the spring is forcing our hand, and we are acting against this force. It no longer applies that force.

Ok now for the same scenario but this time we will use a resistance to the spring.
But you claim the atmosphere is the only source of resistance. So why should we need anything else?

Now let go of the spring and watch it hit the sponge and compress it. What happens?
Assuming the sponge isn't fixed in place it feels basically the same.
If the sponge is fixed in place, it then depends on the strength of the sponge, with a solid enough sponge it will feel between holding it in my hand and having the spring relaxed.

This all matches what mainstream physics indicates.
It is also quite a poor analogy. The force from the spring is insignificant compared to your mass.
For a valid comparison you need a spring which produces a lot of force compared to the mass of the object touching it.

The best easy to make setup I can think of at the moment:

You have a cap with a stick attached, and another stick/straw.
Then get a spring, attach a thin string to the spring, to the cap and then back down.
This allows you to hold it nice and tight.
Then let go (or if it wont melt, hold it in a fire to have the fire burn the string.

If your analogy is valid, and what you say is true, the spring should just sit there and expand. and the cap should just sit there.
But given as in reality springs released like that will go flying, I highly doubt a little cap will stay put, especially with the law of action and reaction.

Of course I've had it explained. The explanation is 100% wrong.
If it was wrong you would be able to explain why it is wrong. But you can't. Instead you just repeatedly assert that it is wrong.

I've explained what really happens.
No. You have asserted what you think should happen and it has actually been explained why it is wrong.

You are yet to explain how the gas can leave the rocket at such high velocities without imparting an equal and opposite reaction to the rocket, nor how it would remain in the rocket if the atmosphere wasn't there, nor how the atmosphere pushes back on the rocket.

There's no way real rockets are going to leave a launch pad at bicycle speed. They require the atmosphere to stabilise them in flight.
You have absolutely no basis for either of these claims.

But just remember, you're saying this based on following a narrative of something you have no real clue about other than what you're told or reading.
Basically speaking you're calling me what you are displaying yourself.
No. We are nothing like you.
We say it based upon an understanding of the constant laws of physics which we can see in our lives, and the mountains of evidence for it.
You say it based upon nothing more than your own assertions combined with magic changing physics and dismissing all the evidence.

I've done enough simple experiments to prove rockets do not work as you people say.
What experiments?
You have previously stated you don't want to launch rockets, and that all you ever watch is the initial launch.

If you wanted to, you could easily carry out the simple experiments described, including varying the size and shape of the rocket, or its thrust to weight ratio and seeing what effect it has.

My tests destroy gravity.
Again, what tests? You are yet to provide any test which destroys conventional physics.
Meanwhile plenty of experiments have been provided which refute denpressure.

As for Newton's 3rd law. The law of action and equal and opposite reaction is only true if there's a resistance for action and a resistance for reaction. It has to start by using applied energy which requires a resistance in itself then the resultant equal reaction to that resistance which is the result of that energy applied.
The resistance can be the object itself.
As we have already been over, it takes energy/force to accelerate an object, with this not being directly linked to the air. If it was, as soon as that energy input/force is removed, the object would stop.
You even admit this with an accelerating object, where this transfers energy/something to the object in the form of momentum which allows it to continue through the air.
This is enough to provide resistance and thus demand an equal and opposite reaction.

Without any resistance there would be no force, and thus no action and thus no movement and no reaction.

There is no need for the atmosphere.

And as I have pointed out before, if the atmosphere is your only source of resistance, then you have nothing to stop the rocket from just accelerating.

So, if the laws just apply to this with nothing else added then I have no issues with it.
As has been said repeatedly, if that was the case when you release the object it would stop dead. It would need a force to keep it moving.

Edit: fixed image tag.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2019, 01:23:42 PM by JackBlack »

Re: Intercontinental ballistic missile
« Reply #1197 on: February 01, 2019, 04:50:30 AM »
Bet you cant draw a simple and basic diagram to illustrate your longwinded description

He really shouldn’t need a diagram if he has the concept nailed.

The spring argument defeats itself. There will certainly be a recoil. Who has not ever fired an air gun?
The operative word is "air" gun.

Quote from: Didymus

He’s had it explained to him twice now, once with, and once without a diagram.
He still doesn’t get it. Or rather can not get it due to confirmation bias, hypothesis lock, or whatever you like to call it: rockets can not work in a vacuum and that’s it.
Otherwise it’s one domino in the chain falling.
Of course I've had it explained. The explanation is 100% wrong.
You lot are being duped and you can't/won't see it.
I've explained what really happens and that should be clear to anyone who cares to want to know reality.
What’s the point about air gun?
The spring being released gives a recoil. So what you said about the spring being released not giving a recoil is wrong.
And:
Newton’s third law is how many percent wrong?
Try the spring in your hand like I said and you'll have that experiment literally in your own hand, so no need to argue that one.
As for the air gun. It's the spring that is compressed which locks inside ready for release against a piston to force air onto the pellet to compress it against it.
That's your recoil.

As for Newton's 3rd law. The law of action and equal and opposite reaction is only true if there's a resistance for action and a resistance for reaction. It has to start by using applied energy which requires a resistance in itself then the resultant equal reaction to that resistance which is the result of that energy applied.

That would be the so called inertia which you say doesnt exist.
And the resistance of the action is the reaction as per definition of action vs reaction.
You dont need a separate resistance to either for it to work.
There maybe spearate by consequence, but its not a requirement.
Think about what you just said.
Look at how smart you tried to sound by talking a circles that said nothing to your point.
Try drawing it out and youll understand.

Re: Intercontinental ballistic missile
« Reply #1198 on: February 01, 2019, 04:53:42 AM »
Spend a day, a week, a month, a year away and the stupidest flat Earth ideas are still put forth without a single shread of verifiable evidence.  We try to inform you of how to do testing, you complain that it costs money, you don't have time, the makers of the sensors and equipment are in on the conspiracy, etc.  Never once trying to test your own theories, just insulting others for questioning your clearly idiotic statements.  Flat Earth is a mental illness, it has to be.
It's strange that because I provide you with the means to test and it doesn't cost a fortune and in fact costs about a £1 $1 or whatever if the so called scientists have an evacuation chamber.
But guess what?
Nobody wants to do any tests. It all goes quiet and instead people argue against my tests saying they don't prove anything. That is absolute dishonesty, so don't be coming that nonsense.

The only test I've seen you mention involves a vacuum chamber, coffee can lid, some necklace beads and a motor to spin the lid. Are there other tests you've performed? If so, describe them. What were the results? Can we see any of these tests you performed on YT by you or someone else? Are there any papers by others out there about the tests that are similar to the ones you have performed we can look at?

You keep on saying things like, I paraphrase, "the tests I have performed destroy gravity, rockets, etc." Yet you never tell us what those tests/experiments were let alone what the results were. It's like you're hiding something.

If you don't want to perform the tests then don't. It's no skin off my nose and I'm not the one that needs to prove anything to the likes of you. No offence but you are not important to me to care whether you do the experiment.
The people that I do have time for are those that are willing to see what the tests prove against what you people push.

Wow, you really are trying to hide something. When asked for a description of the tests/experiments you claimed to have performed and their results that prove your claims you answer with "If you don't want to perform the tests then don't."

It's pretty hard to determine if I want to do the tests or not considering I don't know what they are b/c you won't tell anyone what they are even when asked repeatedly what they are.

What are you so afraid of in revealing what your tests are?

Doesnt matter guys.
I just did the test.
It doesnt work.

Sceptis proven wrong by math, text book, and now experimentation.
Game over.
We can all move on from this fool.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2019, 05:05:19 AM by Themightykabool »

Re: Intercontinental ballistic missile
« Reply #1199 on: February 01, 2019, 04:59:49 AM »
Bet you cant draw a simple and basic diagram to illustrate your longwinded description

He really shouldn’t need a diagram if he has the concept nailed.

The spring argument defeats itself. There will certainly be a recoil. Who has not ever fired an air gun?
The operative word is "air" gun.

Quote from: Didymus

He’s had it explained to him twice now, once with, and once without a diagram.
He still doesn’t get it. Or rather can not get it due to confirmation bias, hypothesis lock, or whatever you like to call it: rockets can not work in a vacuum and that’s it.
Otherwise it’s one domino in the chain falling.
Of course I've had it explained. The explanation is 100% wrong.
You lot are being duped and you can't/won't see it.
I've explained what really happens and that should be clear to anyone who cares to want to know reality.
What’s the point about air gun?
The spring being released gives a recoil. So what you said about the spring being released not giving a recoil is wrong.
And:
Newton’s third law is how many percent wrong?
Try the spring in your hand like I said and you'll have that experiment literally in your own hand, so no need to argue that one.
As for the air gun. It's the spring that is compressed which locks inside ready for release against a piston to force air onto the pellet to compress it against it.
That's your recoil.


As for Newton's 3rd law. The law of action and equal and opposite reaction is only true if there's a resistance for action and a resistance for reaction. It has to start by using applied energy which requires a resistance in itself then the resultant equal reaction to that resistance which is the result of that energy applied.

We're just trying to help you here.
You do know the difference between a £3000 gas powered match rifle and a £100 Chinese springer don't you?
Both have air coming out of the end.
In the case of the expensive one there's almost no recoil. That's partly the point.
The cheap spring gun rattles like an old tin can, and the kick is quite strong.
This contradicts both your points at the same time:
The release of a spring will give a reaction.
It has nothing to do with pushing on air.
You would get a recoil from a cocked spring gun in a vacuum.

As for Newton. Just no, as Rab pointed out.

We can ref ladder guy again.
Haha
Cracks me up