Is Science the new Religion ?

http://www.atlanteanconspiracy.com/2015/08/200-proofs-earth-is-not-spinning-ball.html?m=1

In this post you asked for a coherent answer

How is saying that the earth is meant to be an oblate spheroid but non of NASA's CGI or so called pictures confirm this incoherent ?
More like you have no coherent response.

and I gave you a coherent answer in Re: Is Science the new Religion ? « Reply #86 on: May 22, 2017, 10:02:37 AM »
If you won't acknowledge my answers to your posts, why should I bother refuting your uninformed statements?

Debate is a two-way process Mr Resistance.is.Futile.

Now, when it comes to Eric Dubay's "200 Proofs Earth is not a Spinning Ball", you present them one-by-one and I'll debunk them one-by-one.

If you expect me or anyone else to wade through all those, think again. But I'll look at the first:

1) The horizon always appears perfectly flat 360 degrees around the observer regardless of altitude. All amateur balloon, rocket, plane and drone footage show a completely flat horizon over 20+ miles high. Only NASA and other government “space agencies” show curvature in their fake CGI photos/videos.

Answer to Eric Dubay's #1:
This is no proof at all! It's not even evidence!
The horizon should appear perfectly flat 360° around the observer at low level and nearly so till you get very high.
If you disagree, please post you evidence.

On the Globe earth, the horizon looks exactly the same whichever direction you look.
Imagine you are in a small boat in a large calm lake with your eye-level 6 feet above the water.
Whichever direction you look the horizon will always be 3 miles away and near enough to eye-level, so whichever way you turn the horizon is at exactly the same level and perfectly flat.

So from sea level, the horizon of the Globe must be precisely flat left-to-right.

Whatever your altitude, the horizon will always be exactly the same distance away and very, very slightly below a true horizontal at eye-level. Even at a height of 30,000 ft, the horizon is only 3.1° below eye level easily measurable but not easy to see from a plane with no horizontal reference.

What you are always doing is looking at a slight downward angle on a very large circle about your location.
When this down angle (dip angle as it is called) gets large enough we can see a slight curve.

Depending on the field of view this is claimed to be anywhere from about 50,000 to 90,000 feet.
I'll just give the link to this video: " class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">Show me the Curvature... Here it is. Wolfie6020

Maybe you could look at a video about the horizon.
It covers the "flat horizon" and the "horizon not rising to eye-level":

Number 8
The Suez Canal connecting the Mediterranean with the Red Sea is 100 miles long without any locks making the water an uninterrupted continuation of the two seas. When constructed, the Earth’s supposed curvature was not taken into account, it was dug along a horizontal datum line 26 feet below sea-level, passing through several lakes from one sea to the other, with the datum line and water’s surface running perfectly parallel over the 100 miles.

Number 8
The Suez Canal connecting the Mediterranean with the Red Sea is 100 miles long without any locks making the water an uninterrupted continuation of the two seas. When constructed, the Earth’s supposed curvature was not taken into account, it was dug along a horizontal datum line 26 feet below sea-level, passing through several lakes from one sea to the other, with the datum line and water’s surface running perfectly parallel over the 100 miles.

Answer: Potential energy.

Number 8
The Suez Canal connecting the Mediterranean with the Red Sea is 100 miles long without any locks making the water an uninterrupted continuation of the two seas. When constructed, the Earth’s supposed curvature was not taken into account, it was dug along a horizontal datum line 26 feet below sea-level, passing through several lakes from one sea to the other, with the datum line and water’s surface running perfectly parallel over the 100 miles.

please show the source of your information how they measure the depth they had to dig.

you claim that they dig the bottom exactly flat and not following the earth curvature.

please show us how they did the complete measuring of the canal across the distance.

10) The London and Northwestern Railway forms a straight line 180 miles long between London and Liverpool. The railroad’s highest point, midway at Birmingham station, is only 240 feet above sea-level. If the world were actually a globe, however, curving 8 inches per mile squared, the 180 mile stretch of rail would form an arc with the center point at Birmingham raising over a mile, a full 5,400 feet above London and Liverpool.

http://www.atlanteanconspiracy.com/2015/08/200-proofs-earth-is-not-spinning-ball.html?m=1

10) The London and Northwestern Railway forms a straight line 180 miles long between London and Liverpool. The railroad’s highest point, midway at Birmingham station, is only 240 feet above sea-level. If the world were actually a globe, however, curving 8 inches per mile squared, the 180 mile stretch of rail would form an arc with the center point at Birmingham raising over a mile, a full 5,400 feet above London and Liverpool.

http://www.atlanteanconspiracy.com/2015/08/200-proofs-earth-is-not-spinning-ball.html?m=1

how did you (or somebody else) measure that straight line?
please show us the source for the information about your claim.

Quote from: Resistance.is.Futile on May 23, 2017, 07:31:43 AM

10) The London and Northwestern Railway forms a straight line 180 miles long between London and Liverpool. The railroad’s highest point, midway at Birmingham station, is only 240 feet above sea-level. If the world were actually a globe, however, curving 8 inches per mile squared, the 180 mile stretch of rail would form an arc with the center point at Birmingham raising over a mile, a full 5,400 feet above London and Liverpool.

http://www.atlanteanconspiracy.com/2015/08/200-proofs-earth-is-not-spinning-ball.html?m=1

how did you (or somebody else) measure that straight line?
please show us the source for the information about your claim.

LOL  He seems unaware that the datum for sea-level is curved.   This stuff from Eric Dupay has been debunked many times already.   I think there was a whole series of threads a few years back  on the "200 proofs"   not one of the 200 so called proofs stood up. 

The St. George’s Channel between Holyhead and Kingstown Harbor near Dublin is 60 miles across. When half-way across a ferry passenger will notice behind them the light on Holyhead pier as well as in front of them the Poolbeg light in Dublin Bay. The Holyhead Pier light is 44 feet high, while the Poolbeg lighthouse 68 feet, therefore a vessel in the middle of the channel, 30 miles from either side standing on a deck 24 feet above the water, can clearly see both lights. On a ball Earth 25,000 miles in circumference, however, both lights should be hidden well below both horizons by over 300 feet!


http://www.atlanteanconspiracy.com/2015/08/200-proofs-earth-is-not-spinning-ball.html?m=1

The St. George’s Channel between Holyhead and Kingstown Harbor near Dublin is 60 miles across. When half-way across a ferry passenger will notice behind them the light on Holyhead pier as well as in front of them the Poolbeg light in Dublin Bay. The Holyhead Pier light is 44 feet high, while the Poolbeg lighthouse 68 feet, therefore a vessel in the middle of the channel, 30 miles from either side standing on a deck 24 feet above the water, can clearly see both lights. On a ball Earth 25,000 miles in circumference, however, both lights should be hidden well below both horizons by over 300 feet!


http://www.atlanteanconspiracy.com/2015/08/200-proofs-earth-is-not-spinning-ball.html?m=1

please provide the source of your information that both lights are visible.
I like to check that.

Quote from: Resistance.is.Futile on May 23, 2017, 09:34:18 AM

The St. George’s Channel between Holyhead and Kingstown Harbor near Dublin is 60 miles across. When half-way across a ferry passenger will notice behind them the light on Holyhead pier as well as in front of them the Poolbeg light in Dublin Bay. The Holyhead Pier light is 44 feet high, while the Poolbeg lighthouse 68 feet, therefore a vessel in the middle of the channel, 30 miles from either side standing on a deck 24 feet above the water, can clearly see both lights. On a ball Earth 25,000 miles in circumference, however, both lights should be hidden well below both horizons by over 300 feet!


http://www.atlanteanconspiracy.com/2015/08/200-proofs-earth-is-not-spinning-ball.html?m=1

please provide the source of your information that both lights are visible.
I like to check that.

The source is irrelevant it is something us Brits can verify for ourselves .
I expected you to say it was a superior mirage or refraction.

He realized his claims on the last few pages couldn't stand up to scrutiny, so now he's spamming old debunked FE garbage. That's rich.

The source is irrelevant it is something us Brits can verify for ourselves .

Have you done so? Or are you just saying you could if you wanted to?

No not yet.

 NASA and modern astronomy say Polaris, the North Pole star, is somewhere between 323-434 light years, or about 2 quadrillion miles, away from us! Firstly, note that is between 1,938,000,000,000,000 - 2,604,000,000,000,000 miles making a difference of 666,000,000,000,000 (over six hundred trillion) miles! If modern astronomy cannot even agree on the distance to stars within hundreds of trillions of miles, perhaps their “science” is flawed and their theory needs re-examining. However, even granting them their obscurely distant stars, it is impossible for heliocentrists to explain how Polaris manages to always remain perfectly aligned straight above the North Pole throughout Earth’s various alleged tilting, wobbling, rotating and revolving motions.

Viewed from a ball-Earth, Polaris, situated directly over the North Pole, should not be visible anywhere in the Southern hemisphere. For Polaris to be seen from the Southern hemisphere of a globular Earth, the observer would have to be somehow looking “through the globe,” and miles of land and sea would have to be transparent. Polaris can be seen, however, up to over 20 degrees South latitude.

Polaris can be seen, however, up to over 20 degrees South latitude.

No, it cannot. I know that. Don't believe anything you see on youtube, just because you want to believe it.

Even at about 5 degrees Southern latitute, I could not see Polaris anymore.

Quote from: Canadabear on May 23, 2017, 09:57:57 AM

Quote from: Resistance.is.Futile on May 23, 2017, 09:34:18 AM

The St. George’s Channel between Holyhead and Kingstown Harbor near Dublin is 60 miles across. When half-way across a ferry passenger will notice behind them the light on Holyhead pier as well as in front of them the Poolbeg light in Dublin Bay. The Holyhead Pier light is 44 feet high, while the Poolbeg lighthouse 68 feet, therefore a vessel in the middle of the channel, 30 miles from either side standing on a deck 24 feet above the water, can clearly see both lights. On a ball Earth 25,000 miles in circumference, however, both lights should be hidden well below both horizons by over 300 feet!


http://www.atlanteanconspiracy.com/2015/08/200-proofs-earth-is-not-spinning-ball.html?m=1

please provide the source of your information that both lights are visible.
I like to check that.

The source is irrelevant it is something us Brits can verify for ourselves .
I expected you to say it was a superior mirage or refraction.

ok you than saw it yourself.

i can say i saw the effect of the earth curvature here in Canada when i view across Lake Ontario to Toronto and it match exactly the global earth.

how can we find out why it is different?
do you have any pictures or videos that supports your claim?

No not yet.

 NASA and modern astronomy say Polaris, the North Pole star, is somewhere between 323-434 light years, or about 2 quadrillion miles, away from us! Firstly, note that is between 1,938,000,000,000,000 - 2,604,000,000,000,000 miles making a difference of 666,000,000,000,000 (over six hundred trillion) miles! If modern astronomy cannot even agree on the distance to stars within hundreds of trillions of miles, perhaps their “science” is flawed and their theory needs re-examining. However, even granting them their obscurely distant stars, it is impossible for heliocentrists to explain how Polaris manages to always remain perfectly aligned straight above the North Pole throughout Earth’s various alleged tilting, wobbling, rotating and revolving motions.

Viewed from a ball-Earth, Polaris, situated directly over the North Pole, should not be visible anywhere in the Southern hemisphere. For Polaris to be seen from the Southern hemisphere of a globular Earth, the observer would have to be somehow looking “through the globe,” and miles of land and sea would have to be transparent. Polaris can be seen, however, up to over 20 degrees South latitude.

why do you start a new topic before the other is clarified?

do you try to avoid to provide a answer?

Quote from: Resistance.is.Futile on May 23, 2017, 11:17:22 AM

Quote from: Canadabear on May 23, 2017, 09:57:57 AM

Quote from: Resistance.is.Futile on May 23, 2017, 09:34:18 AM

The St. George’s Channel between Holyhead and Kingstown Harbor near Dublin is 60 miles across. When half-way across a ferry passenger will notice behind them the light on Holyhead pier as well as in front of them the Poolbeg light in Dublin Bay. The Holyhead Pier light is 44 feet high, while the Poolbeg lighthouse 68 feet, therefore a vessel in the middle of the channel, 30 miles from either side standing on a deck 24 feet above the water, can clearly see both lights. On a ball Earth 25,000 miles in circumference, however, both lights should be hidden well below both horizons by over 300 feet!


http://www.atlanteanconspiracy.com/2015/08/200-proofs-earth-is-not-spinning-ball.html?m=1

please provide the source of your information that both lights are visible.
I like to check that.

The source is irrelevant it is something us Brits can verify for ourselves .
I expected you to say it was a superior mirage or refraction.

ok you than saw it yourself.

i can say i saw the effect of the earth curvature here in Canada when i view across Lake Ontario to Toronto and it match exactly the global earth.

how can we find out why it is different?
do you have any pictures or videos that supports your claim?

I could link a  video of Chicago visable from  the other side of Lake michigan .
I think its better people verify things for themselves if you want to see it just Google it.

Quote from: Resistance.is.Futile on May 23, 2017, 11:32:43 AM

Polaris can be seen, however, up to over 20 degrees South latitude.

No, it cannot. I know that. Don't believe anything you see on youtube, just because you want to believe it.

Even at about 5 degrees Southern latitute, I could not see Polaris anymore.

If you say so;do you wear spectacles ? what about polaris at the north pole how would that be possible on the heliocentric model?

Quote from: FalseProphet on May 23, 2017, 11:43:23 AM

Quote from: Resistance.is.Futile on May 23, 2017, 11:32:43 AM

Polaris can be seen, however, up to over 20 degrees South latitude.

No, it cannot. I know that. Don't believe anything you see on youtube, just because you want to believe it.

Even at about 5 degrees Southern latitute, I could not see Polaris anymore.

If you say so;do you wear spectacles ? what about polaris at the north pole how would that be possible on the heliocentric model?

 

Quote from: Canadabear on May 23, 2017, 11:45:47 AM

Quote from: Resistance.is.Futile on May 23, 2017, 11:17:22 AM

Quote from: Canadabear on May 23, 2017, 09:57:57 AM

Quote from: Resistance.is.Futile on May 23, 2017, 09:34:18 AM

The St. George’s Channel between Holyhead and Kingstown Harbor near Dublin is 60 miles across. When half-way across a ferry passenger will notice behind them the light on Holyhead pier as well as in front of them the Poolbeg light in Dublin Bay. The Holyhead Pier light is 44 feet high, while the Poolbeg lighthouse 68 feet, therefore a vessel in the middle of the channel, 30 miles from either side standing on a deck 24 feet above the water, can clearly see both lights. On a ball Earth 25,000 miles in circumference, however, both lights should be hidden well below both horizons by over 300 feet!


http://www.atlanteanconspiracy.com/2015/08/200-proofs-earth-is-not-spinning-ball.html?m=1

please provide the source of your information that both lights are visible.
I like to check that.

The source is irrelevant it is something us Brits can verify for ourselves .
I expected you to say it was a superior mirage or refraction.

ok you than saw it yourself.

i can say i saw the effect of the earth curvature here in Canada when i view across Lake Ontario to Toronto and it match exactly the global earth.

how can we find out why it is different?
do you have any pictures or videos that supports your claim?

I could link a  video of Chicago visable from  the other side of Lake michigan .
I think its better people verify things for themselves if you want to see it just Google it.

ok than i take from that that you did not see it yourself, where did you got the information for your claim.

i can say for myself i saw it with my own eyes at the Lake Ontario.

the Videos you mention for Chicago across Lake Michigan are all explained that it is a refraction at some days.

we now can agree that you claim is unproven from your side and even disproven from my side.

Quote from: FalseProphet on May 23, 2017, 11:43:23 AM

Quote from: Resistance.is.Futile on May 23, 2017, 11:32:43 AM

Polaris can be seen, however, up to over 20 degrees South latitude.

No, it cannot. I know that. Don't believe anything you see on youtube, just because you want to believe it.

Even at about 5 degrees Southern latitute, I could not see Polaris anymore.

If you say so;do you wear spectacles ? what about polaris at the north pole how would that be possible on the heliocentric model?

how is the polaris possible in the flat earth model.
the polaris is (more or less) direct above the north pole.
why is polaris not visible south of the equator?
and at the equator polaris seams to be at the horizon in the north direction.

please explain that.

Quote from: Resistance.is.Futile on May 23, 2017, 11:17:22 AM

The source is irrelevant it is something us Brits can verify for ourselves .

Have you done so? Or are you just saying you could if you wanted to?

No not yet.

Now that that's clear, onward!

NASA and modern astronomy say Polaris, the North Pole star, is somewhere between 323-434 light years, or about 2 quadrillion miles, away from us! Firstly, note that is between 1,938,000,000,000,000 - 2,604,000,000,000,000 miles making a difference of 666,000,000,000,000 (over six hundred trillion) miles! If modern astronomy cannot even agree on the distance to stars within hundreds of trillions of miles, perhaps their “science” is flawed and their theory needs re-examining.

It's two quadrillion miles away. How do you propose measuring its distance more accurately? Why is this significant? Are you intimidated by astronomical numbers? They are vastly larger than your everyday experience and can be unsettling to people who think small, which most flat-earth believers seem to.

However, even granting them their obscurely distant stars, it is impossible for heliocentrists to explain how Polaris manages to always remain perfectly aligned straight above the North Pole throughout Earth’s various alleged tilting, wobbling, rotating and revolving motions.

There's nothing to explain. No one familiar with the motion of the earth claims it does. In about 15,000 years Polaris will be about 27° from the celestial pole. It's not perfectly aligned now, and it's almost as close as it's going to get.

Where did you hear that? Did you believe it because someone said so in a youtube video and you want to believe it? You need to be more skeptical and find better sources.

Viewed from a ball-Earth, Polaris, situated [about 3/4 degree from] directly over the North Pole, should not be visible anywhere in the Southern hemisphere [south of about 1° south latitude]. For Polaris to be seen from the Southern hemisphere of a globular Earth, the observer would have to be somehow looking “through the globe,” and miles of land and sea would have to be transparent.

That's right! This is why Polaris can't be seen at all from more than a degree or so south of the equator.

Polaris can be seen, however, up to over 20 degrees South latitude.

Citation needed.

Was this from youtube, too?

If the earth is orbiting the sun
and the sun with our solar system is moving through our galaxy how is it possible for Polaris to be above the north pole constant when it is meant to be so far away it doesn't even change from summer to winter and where meant to be on opposite sides of the sun.

There are many videos online that show most of the stars orbiting around the north pole  on the geocentric model there is an image of the above in this link.

http://www.atlanteanconspiracy.com/2015/08/200-proofs-earth-is-not-spinning-ball.html?m=1

On the geocentric model the stars orbit the earth ( un logo )polaris stays above magnetic north (centre) so from the equater it would appear to be on the horizon on the geocentric model also.

I do not believe anything I have not verified for myself (As I'm not religious)
 I'm interested in both geocentric and heliocentric models.

If the earth is orbiting the sun
and the sun with our solar system is moving through our galaxy how is it possible for Polaris to be above the north pole constant when it is meant to be so far away it doesn't even change from summer to winter and where meant to be on opposite sides of the sun.

There are many videos online that show most of the stars orbiting around the north pole  on the geocentric model there is an image of the above in this link.

http://www.atlanteanconspiracy.com/2015/08/200-proofs-earth-is-not-spinning-ball.html?m=1

On the geocentric model the stars orbit the earth ( un logo )polaris stays above magnetic north (centre) so from the equater it would appear to be on the horizon on the geocentric model also.

I do not believe anything I have not verified for myself (As I'm not religious)
 I'm interested in both geocentric and heliocentric models.

Did you ever visit school? Are you trolling?
It's not like our galaxy get's mixed all the time. Polaris and our solar system are part of our galaxy but their relative positions stay more or less the same.

If the earth is orbiting the sun
and the sun with our solar system is moving through our galaxy how is it possible for Polaris to be above the north pole constant when it is meant to be so far away it doesn't even change from summer to winter and where meant to be on opposite sides of the sun.

Because it's really really really really really really really far away. Get it now?

I do not believe anything I have not verified for myself (As I'm not religious)

That sounds like a sad way to live your life. That also sounds like an excuse so you can argue from incredulity. Actually, that's exactly what it is.

So polaris along with most of the other stars move along with our solar system through our galaxy so their positions stay relativly the same ?

Its hard to believe with all the spinning tilting and wobbling.
That is definitely something I can't verify and I just don't have the faith to believe it.
How can I be trolling this is meant to be a flat earth site and I'm trying to get information to verify the geocentric model if it was a site for astro physicists then you would have a point.
I posted the link initally to gauge a reaction one of your colleague's said he would go through them one by one.

So polaris along with most of the other stars move along with our solar system through our galaxy so their positions stay relativly the same ?

That's part of it. Also, Polaris is a long way away so its movement relative to us is less obvious. Think about looking out of the window of a train, say. Things in the distance don't appear to move anywhere near as fast as things close by.

Have you tried to research this properly at all? Serious question.

Quote from: Resistance.is.Futile on May 23, 2017, 03:03:00 PM

So polaris along with most of the other stars move along with our solar system through our galaxy so their positions stay relativly the same ?

That's part of it. Also, Polaris is a long way away so its movement relative to us is less obvious. Think about looking out of the window of a train, say. Things in the distance don't appear to move anywhere near as fast as things close by.

Have you tried to research this properly at all? Serious question.

To be honest no it's easier to have quick look online then come on here.

I just find it all hard to believe we are told of the big bang and how everything Is indefinatly expanding but the stars in general seem constant.

Quote from: Copper Knickers on May 23, 2017, 03:19:54 PM

Quote from: Resistance.is.Futile on May 23, 2017, 03:03:00 PM

So polaris along with most of the other stars move along with our solar system through our galaxy so their positions stay relativly the same ?

That's part of it. Also, Polaris is a long way away so its movement relative to us is less obvious. Think about looking out of the window of a train, say. Things in the distance don't appear to move anywhere near as fast as things close by.

Have you tried to research this properly at all? Serious question.

To be honest no it's easier to have quick look online then come on here.

I just find it all hard to believe we are told of the big bang and how everything Is indefinatly expanding but the stars in general seem constant.

You are wrong.
The position of the stars are changing.
The easiest way to find out is that you check the star constellations of the 12  signs of zodiac. They do not anymore match up with the original dates.

The universe is expanding since billions of years. You can only look at a timeframe of a few years. You are simply not able to see the change.
Its like you look at a tree only for one day. You also do not see that the tree grows. But if you look over a time of 10 years you can clearly see it.
 

Lol...Canadabear, you and those like you speak as those in a cult.

It's funny at times,

Annoying others,

As well as disturbing on top of that...