Would standard star atlases be accurate for a flat earth

So.  There are these simple but relatively accurate star atlases for the night sky.  They are based off month and time.  They are dial types that show the night sky for a certain time of year.

Northern hemisphere





Southern hemisphere



I would find it hard to believe that standard Star Atlas for the southern hemisphere would be accurate for a flat earth?

Flat earth killed by a 15 dollar atlas. 

Funny.  Map projections also show the earth is spherical and not flat.

😂

This is the first time I'm hearing about star atlases, nice to know they exist. Gotta buy one.

This is the first time I'm hearing about star atlases, nice to know they exist. Gotta buy one.

Yeah.  That’s what was available before star gazing programs and apps were a thing. 

whats best is that precise ones get updated every year or so, demolishing "stars dont move" BS

The heliocentric model is real.

Why this is accurate and practical to star gazers.



Where on a flat earth a Celestial Star Globe would be useless. 

Was going to make some threads from the 1962 Bowditch American Practical Navigator manual, but it would be more threads just ignored by flat earthers.  So much for flat earther’s having an open mind.

From page 363, and interesting term and diagram.


Augmentation of the moon.

The apparent diameter of the moon is approximately the same as the sun, but varies through wider limits.  Because the moon is so near, the radius of the earth is an appreciable percentage of the distance between the earth and the moon, and the apparent diameter of the moon increases a measurable amount as its altitude increases (decreasing the distance from the observer).  This apparent increase is called augmentation.  Fig 1412

The Sun and moon ARE the exact same size and shape, and at the same distances from Earth. This becomes very obvious to see when they eclipse one another in alternate positions for the lunar and solar eclipses when in perfect match.

They tell us that the moon is 250000 or so miles from Earth and the Sun is about 93 million miles away. Then they say that the Sun is much larger than the moon, which somehow turns out to be the exact size to make them both look like they are the very same size from seeing them on Earth!

This would be the most remarkable and negligible chance of being a coincidence by their story for it.

When we have the two largest objects above Earth appearing to be the exact same size and shape, but only as seen from Earth, the chances of each one so different in size and distance from Earth to precisely match in size and shape and the only two largest objects seen above Earth, when seen from the Earth, among countless millions of objects in ‘space’ at every distance from Earth, which are not all the same shape either, is virtually impossible to be by coincidence that matches two vastly different sizes of two objects among the billions of objects in ‘space’ with their two vastly different distances from Earth, to make them appear at only one distance away to be the exact same size, which is another amazing coincidence that it is the distance they’re seen from Earth, where we happen to be and see them from!

Anywhere else but Earth they’d not look the exact same size.  The only two largest objects above Earth, among the endless others that exist, of all shapes and sizes and distances from Earth, that these two objects would match up in size at this one distance away as the exact same size and shape, is nonsense. By chance alone, even one that matches up is not likely to occur. This story has many more coincidences to occur for this story

The Sun and moon ARE the exact same size and shape, and at the same distances from Earth.

If that was true.  They would run into each other.  But we know the sun is farther away from the earth than the moon because of solar eclipses.  Where the moon is in front of the sun.  So they are the same apparent size in the sky, but we know the sun must be physically bigger because it is farther away and behind the moon during a solar eclipse.  Because the path of totality is relatively small during a solar eclipse, we know the sun is a good distance farther away than the moon.

Now care to bring the thread back to the actual topic.  Why is a cheap dial star atlas accurate for the southern hemisphere.  It’s because the earth is spherical.  Easy and accurate proof the earth isn’t flat.  Proof you can’t dispute.  So you’re back to flat earth word games and distraction. 

The Sun and moon ARE the exact same size and shape, and at the same distances from Earth. This becomes very obvious to see when they eclipse one another in alternate positions for the lunar and solar eclipses when in perfect match.

No they aren't.
The fact the lunar eclipse and solar eclipse is so drastically different demonstrates it is a fundamentally different phenomenon.
The fact that a solar eclipse is local shows that it is something blocking our view from Earth to the sun.
The fact that a lunar eclipse is global shows that it is something blocking the light from the sun from reaching the moon.
So that claim is pure BS.

Also, the fact we get annular solar eclipses demonstrates that the moon MUST be smaller than the sun.

And if they were the exact same size and distance, they would collide.

You are spouting nothing more than delusional BS.

which somehow turns out to be the exact size to make them both look like they are the very same size from seeing them on Earth!

There is nothing exact about it.
Some times the sun appears larger than the moon, some times it appears smaller.

Even if it was, there is nothing special about this ratio, and it is no more a magical coincidence than if they were the same size and distance.

This also has nothing to do with the issue at hand, how star atlases, based upon a round Earth, work.

Quote from: turbonium2 on April 07, 2024, 02:43:49 AM

The Sun and moon ARE the exact same size and shape, and at the same distances from Earth. This becomes very obvious to see when they eclipse one another in alternate positions for the lunar and solar eclipses when in perfect match.

No they aren't.
The fact the lunar eclipse and solar eclipse is so drastically different demonstrates it is a fundamentally different phenomenon.
The fact that a solar eclipse is local shows that it is something blocking our view from Earth to the sun.
The fact that a lunar eclipse is global shows that it is something blocking the light from the sun from reaching the moon.
So that claim is pure BS.

Also, the fact we get annular solar eclipses demonstrates that the moon MUST be smaller than the sun.

And if they were the exact same size and distance, they would collide.

You are spouting nothing more than delusional BS.

Quote from: turbonium2 on April 07, 2024, 02:43:49 AM

which somehow turns out to be the exact size to make them both look like they are the very same size from seeing them on Earth!

There is nothing exact about it.
Some times the sun appears larger than the moon, some times it appears smaller.

Even if it was, there is nothing special about this ratio, and it is no more a magical coincidence than if they were the same size and distance.

This also has nothing to do with the issue at hand, how star atlases, based upon a round Earth, work.

So why don’t the sun and moon fully eclipse with one smaller in size than the other, if they’re both different in size and distance from Earth?


Every time they eclipse, each one eclipses the other at the exact same size.  How is that possible if they’re so radically different in size and distance from Earth?

The moon should look like a tiny black speck in front of the huge moon for when the moon is on front of the Sun, which it always WOULD be in front of based on your distances.

A Sun that is 93 million miles away from Earth would NEVER eclipse soon only 250000 miles away, it is physically impossible

Quote

No they aren't.
The fact the lunar eclipse and solar eclipse is so drastically different demonstrates it is a fundamentally different phenomenon.
The fact that a solar eclipse is local shows that it is something blocking our view from Earth to the sun.
The fact that a lunar eclipse is global shows that it is something blocking the light from the sun from reaching the moon.
So that claim is pure BS.

Also, the fact we get annular solar eclipses demonstrates that the moon MUST be smaller than the sun.

And if they were the exact same size and distance, they would collide.

You are spouting nothing more than delusional BS.

Quote from: turbonium2 on April 07, 2024, 02:43:49 AM

which somehow turns out to be the exact size to make them both look like they are the very same size from seeing them on Earth!

There is nothing exact about it.
Some times the sun appears larger than the moon, some times it appears smaller.

Even if it was, there is nothing special about this ratio, and it is no more a magical coincidence than if they were the same size and distance.

This also has nothing to do with the issue at hand, how star atlases, based upon a round Earth, work.

The Sun is slightly further away from Earth than the moon, at least when the moon eclipses the Sun. Everyone knows they don’t collide, being the same distance away isn’t 24/7, but I figured you’d know what I meant without having to explain it all. Guess I need to  spell it out like I’m speaking to children next time
[/quote]

There is only one eclipse, which is the moon elclipsing the Sun. It is not a ‘shadow of a ball Earth’ perfectly covering up the moon that then perfectly eclipses the moon. That would have three objects of different sizes and distances from one another magically appearing to all be the same size at the same time.

Oh well it fits the rest of this fairy tale nicely, too bad it has nothing to do with reality

There is only one eclipse, which is the moon elclipsing the Sun. It is not a ‘shadow of a ball Earth’ perfectly covering up the moon that then perfectly eclipses the moon. That would have three objects of different sizes and distances from one another magically appearing to all be the same size at the same time.

Oh well it fits the rest of this fairy tale nicely, too bad it has nothing to do with reality

Hello, McFly.

Your been proven wrong regarding Solar Eclipses.  Eclipses that are not the topic of this thread.

If you want to post about solar eclipses, you can use…

Solar eclipse
https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=92390.0

Or..

The sun
https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=92278.0

Now Turbs.  The topic of this thread is a simple dial star atlas for the southern hemisphere is accurate because the earth is spherical.  I know it’s hard for you to stay on topic.   But do stick to the topic of this thread.

So I take it by your continued avoidance of the topic that you fully accept that star atlases prove that Earth is round, that you know Earth is not flat, and you are here lying to everyone with each post you make where you pretend it is?

So why don’t the sun and moon fully eclipse with one smaller in size than the other, if they’re both different in size and distance from Earth?

Because of the fact that Earth's orbit around the sun and the Moon's orbit around Earth is elliptical, sometimes the angular size of the moon is smaller than the sun and some times it is bigger.

Instead of just trying to turn the question back on me, how about you explain how we have annular eclipses?
These prove beyond any doubt that the moon is closer and smaller than the sun.

Every time they eclipse, each one eclipses the other at the exact same size.

They don't.
That is a blatant lie from you.

Firstly, again, the moon is not eclipsed by the sun, it is the sun being eclipsed by Earth blocking the light on the moon.
And that is nothing like the same size.

But potentially more importantly, during a solar eclipse THEY ARE NOT EXACTLY THE SAME SIZE!!!

If they were, totality would last an instant, the region of totality would be infinitely thin.

The fact that during a total solar eclipse the region of totality last a finite period of time, and the path of totality is 10s of km wide shows that the moon is appearing LARGER than the sun.

How is that possible if they’re so radically different in size and distance from Earth?

A child can understand this:

The moon should look like a tiny black speck in front of the huge moon for when the moon is on front of the Sun, which it always WOULD be in front of based on your distances.

Why?
While the moon is smaller, it is also much closer. Much like how you can bring your hands to your eyes to block your view of a much larger mountain in the distance, the closer moon can block out the much larger sun.

A Sun that is 93 million miles away from Earth would NEVER eclipse soon only 250000 miles away, it is physically impossible

Care to demonstrate that physical impossibility, because basic geometry says you are wrong.
The fact you can go inside and have the sun blocked out shows you are wrong.

The Sun is slightly further away from Earth than the moon, at least when the moon eclipses the Sun. Everyone knows they don’t collide

Which demonstrates your claim is pure BS.
They are NOT exactly the same distance away.
So if you want to claim they are the exact same angular size, you need to appeal to that same "magical" coincidence, just with different distances.

Guess I need to  spell it out like I’m speaking to children next time

Or you could just try being honest for once in your life, rather than blatantly lying to pretend the RE model needs magic.

There is only one eclipse

Blatantly rejecting reality wont save you, especially when you are now just directly contradicting yourself as well.
There are quite clearly 2 types of eclipses, a solar eclipse and a lunar eclipse.

That would have three objects of different sizes and distances from one another magically appearing to all be the same size at the same time.

Again, if they "magically appeared" to be the exact same size, the duration of totality would be an instant.
Instead a total lunar eclipse typically lasts for more than an hour.
That shows the umbra part of Earth's shadow is much larger than the moon.

Oh well it fits the rest of this fairy tale nicely, too bad it has nothing to do with reality

You mean all your delusional BS? Certainly.
Meanwhile, the mainstream model of an eclipse certainly fits into reality and explains it quite well, with you unable to show a single fault.

There is only one eclipse,

Turbs, I stated a thread about solar eclipses, are you going to post about star atlases in that thread? 

Seriously, no need to derail this thread.  There are like four or five eclipse threads now. 

The Earth doesn’t cast any shadows, it has shadows cast on it from the Sun. The moon has its own source of light, no shadows from the moon cast on it.

The Sun is behind the moon, not in front of it. How could it cast shadows on the front of the moon when it’s behind it?  Not from a reflection of sunlight hitting Earth and bouncing up to the moon, we see no beam of sunlight bouncing off Earth up to the moon like a giant spotlight!

No sunlight is seen hitting the back side of the moon, it’s in darkness on the edges, where sun would hit it directly, but it’s  in darkness.

When both are seen in the sky, in full view, there’s nothing between them, both are sources of their own light.

That isn’t a shadow on the moon at all. It is a cloak that is over the moon and moves in cycles over the years, it’s not well known to us, as yet. It’s fascinating to me, though

All the stars are the very same stars, in same positions, it destroys their story right there.

Stars are all moving through endless space at extreme speeds, and so is Earth zipping through space, and all of them are.

But all the stars are also trillions of miles away from Earth.

So how could all the stars be the same, in same position above Earth, if all are speeding through endless space?  It’s nonsensical. Bs

The Earth doesn’t cast any shadows, it has shadows cast on it from the Sun. The moon has its own source of light, no shadows from the moon cast on it.

If Earth is opaque, it casts shadows.

If the moon is its own source of light, why does it behave as an object that is illuminated by something else?

The Sun is behind the moon, not in front of it.

i.e. exactly what we said?

we see no beam of sunlight

I see no beam of light from the light in my room.
Light beams only occur in particular circumstances.

No sunlight is seen hitting the back side of the moon

When you can't see the backside of the moon, how do you know this?

When both are seen in the sky, in full view, there’s nothing between them, both are sources of their own light.

So what?

That isn’t a shadow on the moon at all. It is a cloak that is over the moon and moves in cycles over the years, it’s not well known to us, as yet. It’s fascinating to me, though

And this clock magically shape shifts to produce the effects expected for shadows, including shadows in craters?
You are grasping at straws.

All the stars are the very same stars, in same positions

You mean in ever so slightly different positions.
Where the stars appear to drift over thousands of years?

It’s nonsensical. Bs

Your argument certainly is.

Dataoverflow has completely destroyed the flat earth theory with a cheap star atlas anyone can purchase,, Wow! nice work.

And not a single response refuting it.
I'm impressed.
Flat Earth is confirmed a fake.

Flat Earth is confirmed a fake.

I’m surprised this hasn’t been used more between spending time between two sites arguing FE for more years than I care to account for.  It’s the first time I’ve seen this used? 

What is really evident is the depts flat earthers will lie or ignore specific facts / reality. 

I get “it’s not a lie if you really believe it”.  But there is so much that makes the reality of a spherical earth evident, it’s sad the depts people will go to lie to themselves to hold on to flat earth. 

Yep. It's sort of fascinating and then again troubling. To believe so many people, basically every scientist in the world is lying is a strange place to be mentally. Assuming these people actually believe this FE stuff.
Well, good luck and best wishes to you
I think I've had enough 'debates' on this.

I think I've had enough 'debates' on this.

Probably means you’re a sane person that has a life.   😂

If you ever get bored, check out 9/11 conspiracies and stuff like thermite brought down the WTC.  Or a DEW dustified the twin towers.  There are a few scientists and technical experts that sound out to make money or gain fame pandering to the 9/11 truthers. From Richard gage, Niels Harrit, and Dr Judy Wood…

I can't handle most of that crap, though the image of pres W. personally placing charges in the twin towers makes me chuckle. Mostly it just angers me.
People just can't handle the truth sometimes. Yes there are people that hate America, often for good reasons, and want to kill us. Get over it, I say
And No, nobody is controlling the world, as much as conspiracy theorists would like, nobody in charge. Free reign. Putin could nuke us tomorrow and there's nothing we can do about it. That's life on this crazy round rock we're living on.

Earth is pretty special it seems though.
Why is everything seem like it is designed for humans to exist on earth?
"Because if it wasn't, you wouldn't exist and couldn't contemplate the question."

There is a person on YouTube,
Jos Leys? The individual likes to do computer models and set them to music. 

The individual also shows flat earth modeling vs reality.  Usually for sun and shadows.

Debunking flat Earth using only a stick.

The below video by the same person shows the actual path the stick shadow traveled in France for a time around the equinox.

Still no working flat earth explanation why a simple dial star atlas is accurate for the southern hemisphere?  Other than the earth is in fact spherical?

Look.  This one even comes with a 2 year warranty!  What you got to lose Flat Earthers?



What flat earth map comes with a warranty? 

😂😂😂😂😂😂

This is the first time I'm hearing about star atlases, nice to know they exist. Gotta buy one.

You can get them for your cell phone.  I think some are free.

Quote from: EarthIsRotund on March 26, 2024, 11:09:01 AM

This is the first time I'm hearing about star atlases, nice to know they exist. Gotta buy one.

You can get them for your cell phone.  I think some are free.

yes, no. you fail to see the point.