Poll

Who will win the election?

Trump
2 (16.7%)
Biden
9 (75%)
I dont care
1 (8.3%)

Total Members Voted: 12

Voting closed: November 03, 2020, 03:21:52 AM

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Who will win the election?

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Definitely Not Swedish

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Re: Who will win the election?
« Reply #1620 on: January 10, 2021, 02:09:15 PM »
Quote from: Stash on January 10, 2021, 01:47:28 PM
Interesting assessment:

The Police’s Tepid Response To The Capitol Breach Wasn’t An Aberration
Authorities are more than twice as likely to break up a left-wing protest than a right-wing protest.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-polices-tepid-response-to-the-capitol-breach-wasnt-an-aberration/
Because republicu*ts are usually protesting armed.
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JJA

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Re: Who will win the election?
« Reply #1621 on: January 10, 2021, 02:18:39 PM »
Quote from: Definitely Not Swedish on January 10, 2021, 02:09:15 PM
Quote from: Stash on January 10, 2021, 01:47:28 PM
Interesting assessment:

The Police’s Tepid Response To The Capitol Breach Wasn’t An Aberration
Authorities are more than twice as likely to break up a left-wing protest than a right-wing protest.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-polices-tepid-response-to-the-capitol-breach-wasnt-an-aberration/
Because republicu*ts are usually protesting armed.

From someone who has been involved in situations where guns were in play, let me tell you the cops do NOT fuck around if they think you are a threat.

They let right wingers walk around with guns because they feel they are on the same side.  If a left wing group carried guns it would NOT end well.

If they really were afraid of a mob with guns, they are not going to just stand around and let them do whatever.  Not in a million years.

The guns are not the issue.  It's the cops being buddy buddy with right wing terrorists that is the problem.
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Wolvaccine

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Re: Who will win the election?
« Reply #1622 on: January 10, 2021, 03:19:26 PM »
Quote from: JJA on January 10, 2021, 02:06:31 PM

Defund the police?  No.  Reform them?  Hell yes.  It's going to take years and a lot of work to clear out the whole "the public are enemy combatants" mentality.  Fire the entire leadership and start over if that's what it takes.

Defunding them is a good idea. It's not about removing police from the streets. It's about putting money into other services better equipped to deal with situations so police aren't bogged down doing the work that belongs to what should be other departments.

So if someone is having a mental breakdown, police aren't the first responders with guns drawn. Stray dog? Not the polices problem.

Police should be out there dealing with only police work. Not everything going wrong. Defunding the police would make the police better - not worse.

Shock jocks like that Tucker moron will deliberately lie about it though. That POS lives by spreading fear and hatred.
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Space Cowgirl

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Re: Who will win the election?
« Reply #1623 on: January 10, 2021, 03:28:24 PM »
Quote from: JJA on January 10, 2021, 01:17:46 PM
Quote from: Space Cowgirl on January 10, 2021, 12:34:26 PM
You say they were unwilling, but they were outnumbered. https://twitter.com/JanNWolfe/status/1348327073773985802?s=20

Have you watched the videos where they are waving people in, and then tell the reporter they can't enter the building?

Taking selfies?

Have you ever known a police officer to give up control?  They are trained HARD to never, ever give up control under any circumstances. Even when they are dead wrong they never do that.  They aren't just going to back down because there are more people there, that happens in pretty much every protest.  They didn't back down during the BLM marches. 

Their behavior wasn't as bad as the insurrectionists, but it was a far cry from what they did to peaceful left-wing protesters that were in Trumps way for his photo op, or the George Floyd protests.  Remember this?

I'm wondering who it was that made the decision to not put a show of force for what was known to be coming well ahead of time.



Of course I have watched the videos, I posted some of them in this thread.
 
If they deem the safer route is to give up control, they will give up control. I don't know what your source is for your opinion, but I imagine it's the same for that picture you posted. Those aren't Capitol Hill police officers, they are National Guard. The National Guard was called in before that protest at the Lincoln Memorial even got started. There were no National Guard called to the Capitol riot until 2 hours later. This was a failure from the top.

This is a great article describing what it was like inside https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/inside-capitol-siege/2021/01/09/e3ad3274-5283-11eb-bda4-615aaefd0555_story.html  here's the archive  https://archive.is/zncZh 



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Quote from: Thork on November 27, 2012, 12:25:43 PM
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Rayzor

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Re: Who will win the election?
« Reply #1624 on: January 10, 2021, 03:37:14 PM »
This is an interesting read.   It seems likely that the lack of security resources was deliberate, suggesting that there was a conspiracy involving the upper levels of the Capitol police.

https://twitter.com/TerryBoutonHist/status/1348365375449268226
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Quote from: Space Cowgirl on March 01, 2018, 01:35:42 PM
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Space Cowgirl

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Re: Who will win the election?
« Reply #1625 on: January 10, 2021, 04:12:17 PM »
I strongly believe there were people working on the inside to let this happen. The few cops who appeared "unwilling" to do their job were probably part of it. I hope they're all investigated.

Rep. Jason Crow has released this call summery https://twitter.com/RepJasonCrow/status/1348391040370282501?s=20
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Quote from: Thork on November 27, 2012, 12:25:43 PM
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.
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Space Cowgirl

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Re: Who will win the election?
« Reply #1626 on: January 10, 2021, 04:20:49 PM »
Quote from: JerkFace on January 10, 2021, 03:37:14 PM
This is an interesting read.   It seems likely that the lack of security resources was deliberate, suggesting that there was a conspiracy involving the upper levels of the Capitol police.

https://twitter.com/TerryBoutonHist/status/1348365375449268226

That was a great description from on the ground. I thought it was really weird all those people had items that are usually prohibited at the Capitol building (besides the guns). Once you read the Washington Post article, and then stories like this from the ground it really does start to look like a conspiracy!
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Quote from: Thork on November 27, 2012, 12:25:43 PM
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.
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markjo

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Re: Who will win the election?
« Reply #1627 on: January 10, 2021, 05:33:53 PM »
Quote from: Shifter on January 10, 2021, 03:19:26 PM
Shock jocks like that Tucker moron will deliberately lie about it though. That POS lives by spreading fear and hatred.
FUD - Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt.  Or, as I like to think of it - F***ing Useless Data
It's a term that was mostly used for the computer industry some time ago, but it seems apt in this context too.  It's getting so bad that I think that I'm starting to see the fnords.
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Crouton

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Re: Who will win the election?
« Reply #1628 on: January 10, 2021, 06:35:23 PM »
Quote from: Space Cowgirl on January 10, 2021, 04:20:49 PM
Quote from: JerkFace on January 10, 2021, 03:37:14 PM
This is an interesting read.   It seems likely that the lack of security resources was deliberate, suggesting that there was a conspiracy involving the upper levels of the Capitol police.

https://twitter.com/TerryBoutonHist/status/1348365375449268226

That was a great description from on the ground. I thought it was really weird all those people had items that are usually prohibited at the Capitol building (besides the guns). Once you read the Washington Post article, and then stories like this from the ground it really does start to look like a conspiracy!

I can believe that a lot of cops were way too sympathetic. If it is a conspiracy then it's a very inept one. The only conceivable goal that might get them what they wanted is murdering most of congress. Some probably were prepared to do that. A lot of them were jackoffs in stupid costumes though.

To me it sort of looks like a rally that morphed into a riot that partially morphed into an insurrection.
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JJA

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Re: Who will win the election?
« Reply #1629 on: January 10, 2021, 06:40:17 PM »
Ahahahah.  Trumpsters are going off the deep end.

One group is trying to organize a rally for the 17th.

Another group is saying the first group is actually a false flag antifa trap.

A third group is angry at the second group for outing the first group and letting antifa know they have been found out.

I have no words for the hot mess the far right has become.  They have completely lost it.

It's also a great demonstration of Poe's Law.

https://thedonald.win/p/11Rhd2jzbr/the-armed-march-on-jan-17th-is-a/c/
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Wolvaccine

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Re: Who will win the election?
« Reply #1630 on: January 10, 2021, 08:19:15 PM »
Trump MAGA morons honestly make ANTIFA look like good people lolol

To be clear, I think ANTIFA are scumbags too
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Wolvaccine

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Re: Who will win the election?
« Reply #1631 on: January 10, 2021, 08:52:07 PM »


I guess her hair, makeup and fake tan team quit lol

This POS doesn't look so happy anymore


Disheartening though that none seem to have any serious charges against them. Like trespass of a federal building is their worst . Has no one paid any attention to the purpose of this? Domestic terrorism and that's pretty open/shut case. Or how about the death of a police officer. Everyone that entered that building should be an accessory

America doesn't muck around with prison sentences though (unlike Australia) so hopefully these losers get put away for a long time regardless. Deserved
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Lorddave

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Re: Who will win the election?
« Reply #1632 on: January 10, 2021, 09:49:26 PM »
Quote from: JJA on January 10, 2021, 06:40:17 PM
Ahahahah.  Trumpsters are going off the deep end.

One group is trying to organize a rally for the 17th.

Another group is saying the first group is actually a false flag antifa trap.

A third group is angry at the second group for outing the first group and letting antifa know they have been found out.

I have no words for the hot mess the far right has become.  They have completely lost it.

It's also a great demonstration of Poe's Law.

https://thedonald.win/p/11Rhd2jzbr/the-armed-march-on-jan-17th-is-a/c/

Wow, just reading that.  I mean, if they can stop their own protests, I'm not gonna complain.
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Bom Tishop

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Re: Who will win the election?
« Reply #1633 on: January 10, 2021, 11:01:12 PM »
Quote from: Shifter on January 09, 2021, 02:08:48 AM
Quote from: Bom Tishop on January 09, 2021, 01:25:23 AM
Quote from: Shifter on January 08, 2021, 05:11:44 PM
It's about time Facebook and Twitter were more heavy handed in moderating what's said on their platform too. And the trolls and bullies. The right to free speech doesn't entitle people to bully or spread misinformation. That goes for politicians too. They should not get any special status unless that status is holding them to account even more so than a pleb

It's interesting the things you support now... The baby steps that lead to terrible things of the future... The shifter of a few years ago would have some serious issues with the current shifter.

It's your right to be as you are, and I appreciate that. Just noticing the difference and question it with respect.

I have always loathed social media and blame the decoupling of the fabric and cohesion of society in a large part on them. It gives too much vocal authority to trolls and dimwits and dilutes the worlds truth with so much falsehoods and shit

When Trump was elected I was happy 'the establishment' realised it was not a sure thing and maybe a 'regular guy' who had lots of his own money (or could get it) wouldn't need to be beholden to sponsors who got him there

But over time his constant lies, nepotism, corruption and utter incompetence along with the disgusting way he talks about his opponents, his own military, people who dont vote for him etc it wore my hood will I had for him

Is Joe Biden the guy who will bring about a utopia, hell no. But let's be honest. He's not a socialist and he's not 'far left'. He at least can bring some needed dignity to the office once again and put America back in the good books of its allies. Trump soured relations with many of them while he loved up to people like Putin and Kim Jong Un.

For example, I don't agree with how Mitch McConnell runs things (blocking for blocking sake) but at least he knows how to speak the right words and eloquently (even if they are hollow as he doesn't back them up with action). Like how he did after the siege on the capitol

I count myself as left on done things, a little right on others. In the world of politics I never give blind trust or loyalty. It had to be earned. And then it has to be worked on to keep it. I'll never rust on go along with whatever thd leader say. For example if I was a republican, I'd sure as shit wear a mask. I'd never buy into this 'stolen' election nonsense either. If the republicans actually took action on Trump I'd consider them redeemable. But even after this



Mike Pence, who had people prepared to execute him and hang him on a tree outside the building as a 'warning' to traitors, still backs Trump. It is mind boggling. Giving a free pass to a man who put pressure on officials to 'find' extra votes (rigging the election himself!) and when that failed he then riled up and incited a full blown insurrection using Americans he radicalised and led to the deaths of 5 people including 1 police officer. While he was having a viewing party watching it all unfold and denying the national guard to restore order

Trump is a contemptible fuck wit and this is his legacy now. He has polarised Americans so much he has made it a far more dangerous place to live. Americans pitted against fellow Americans based on the colour on who they vote for.

I'll not stand up or back a party which enables and backs a strongman dictator wannabe who is responsible for an insurrection and bloodshed. Remember the faux outrage to Hillary about Benghazi? These deaths are a direct result of Trumps sedition. Where is the republican voter outrage?

Seriously, Trump is the worst president in all of Americas history. The worst, without question. Republicans should just dump his arse and say 'he is not one of us!'

I more so meant you saying a platform should stifle freedom of speech more. You used to be pretty into everyone having a voice, and quite a distain for social media (which you still have as you said).


Though I will agree with most of what you say about Trump now. He has really shown how terrible of a person he really is (much surpassed how terrible I already thought he was lol), all we really need to see is how he through Pence under the bus. I guy that has been there for him since he came on board no matter what he did.

Not only did he completely throw him under the bus, he damn near got him killed...and he did not/does not give a rats ass. Worst president I don't know, but I will agree probably the worst in his moral being.

I hope Pence gets mad and 25th amendment Trump's pathetic ass just to piss him off. Though really, social media banning him was probably the worst punishment to give him lol
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Bom Tishop

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Re: Who will win the election?
« Reply #1634 on: January 10, 2021, 11:32:10 PM »
The only thing I can say about these "patriots", least they actually went after the people that wronged them in their eyes, instead of burning their neighbors house down.
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Crouton

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Re: Who will win the election?
« Reply #1635 on: January 10, 2021, 11:50:03 PM »
Quote from: Bom Tishop on January 10, 2021, 11:32:10 PM
The only thing I can say about these "patriots", least they actually went after the people that wronged them in their eyes, instead of burning their neighbors house down.

That's sort of the thing about this.  If you truly believe that the election is being stolen then you are obligated as a citizen to take action up to and including violence.  If you truly believe that's what happened here then your reaction to Wednesday shouldn't be horror that it happened, it should be disappointment that it failed.

Why would they believe that the election was stolen?  Well here's the thing, understanding exactly how an election is secure, how they guarantee accurate ballot count is something that most laypeople don't have the expertise to understand.  Who do you trust to tell you what the results are?

In 2016 I trusted the democrats.  I figured if there were any fraud that they'd talk about it constantly. I'd be a little distrustful of republicans saying it, not my tribe.  But since the democrats said they lost fair and square then it seems reasonable to trust them.  (I do realize they had all that Russia stuff.  Has nothing to do with the validity of the election.)

Fast forward to 2020.  Reverse the situation.  Trump loses but won't concede.  He just keeps lying and says he won.  Here if the republicans were my tribe then I'd be inclined to belief him.  He's who I would trust.  And most of congress doesn't seem to contradict him.  That must be the truth.  The democrats say he lost but I can't trust them, not my tribe.

I'm not even sure who bears more of the blame here.  These people live in a reality where their only trustworthy source of information is Trump and to a lesser degree the republicans.  They acted in a way a reasonable person who is greatly concerned about their democracy would act. 

In my opinion these senators and representatives who have been pushing this narrative have blood on their hands as much as Trump does and should resign in disgrace.
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Rayzor

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Re: Who will win the election?
« Reply #1636 on: January 11, 2021, 12:22:11 AM »
Quote from: Bom Tishop on January 10, 2021, 11:32:10 PM
The only thing I can say about these "patriots", least they actually went after the people that wronged them in their eyes, instead of burning their neighbors house down.

Are there many people in the US who think like you?    Just curious.
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Denspressure

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Re: Who will win the election?
« Reply #1637 on: January 11, 2021, 03:15:03 AM »
The two-party system is failing. People are killing each other over which old guy rules them. And sadly it is going to get much worse.

Bush started the divide, obama made it worse and Trump made it reach criticality.

The media is also to blame.

Sides are maximum opposing instead of balancing each other out and offering two different views.


I see no way out without violence.


A parlimantary system where the fate of an entire nation doesn't rest on the whims of a single person. Multiple parties that need to form a coalition and work together instead of against each other.

Smaller federal gov only for critical infrastructure, millitary and police. Each state also gets a representative.

If the coalition can't figure something out, let the people vote.


That or....

The USA splits up into 2, maybe 3 nations. Each having one side of the extreme.
Maybe also several completely independent states.

Borders may very well change


In the case of complete anarchy...
enjoy the already failing infrastructure getting much, much worse.
Remember the hoover dam? Only holds back the biggest lake in the USA... if that were to fail...



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Denspressure

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Re: Who will win the election?
« Reply #1638 on: January 11, 2021, 03:24:54 AM »
Quote from: JerkFace on January 11, 2021, 12:22:11 AM
Quote from: Bom Tishop on January 10, 2021, 11:32:10 PM
The only thing I can say about these "patriots", least they actually went after the people that wronged them in their eyes, instead of burning their neighbors house down.

Are there many people in the US who think like you?    Just curious.
I think so. A lot of americans are proud of how far they can go against their government.

It's one of the reason they want to bear arms, to protect themselves against a government that does something hostile to the population.

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Denspressure

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Re: Who will win the election?
« Reply #1639 on: January 11, 2021, 03:30:07 AM »
I thought a lot of americans voted for trump because they didn't want an other war with Hillary?

So much for that...

At least not in the middle east this time.
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JJA

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Re: Who will win the election?
« Reply #1640 on: January 11, 2021, 05:35:29 AM »
Quote from: Crouton on January 10, 2021, 11:50:03 PM
Fast forward to 2020.  Reverse the situation.  Trump loses but won't concede.  He just keeps lying and says he won.  Here if the republicans were my tribe then I'd be inclined to belief him.  He's who I would trust.  And most of congress doesn't seem to contradict him.  That must be the truth.  The democrats say he lost but I can't trust them, not my tribe.

I'm not sure this is true.  I had this exact same conversation a few days ago and came to the opposite conclusion.

If in 2016 Hillary and Obama both started saying there was massive fraud, Republicans were duplicating millions of votes and said everything Trump and his co-conspirators said... I'd be PISSED.  I'd be so mad, so angry that they stole my vote!

But then... at some point I'd be waiting for the fallout, I'd want to see who did this and how, I'd want to know what was being done to make sure it didn't happen again. When a hundred lawsuits got filed and there was nothing... no evidence... when all I got was repeats of the same claims, and conspiracy theories...

I don't think I'd be marching on the capitol.  I'd be wondering if I was being lied to.

I don't blindly trust everything I hear, no matter what tribe it comes from.  I'd fall for it, for a time.. but eventually the complete lack of evidence is going to start to bug me. 

You would probably feel the same too.

Especially if Hillary and Obama were as crazy as Giuliani and Trump.

I truly don't understand how so many Republicans are falling for this.  I think it's just how they are.  They are angry people who WANT to believe so they can hate.  There is a reason right wing media and radio are full of screaming ranting people and why it's so popular, but there isn't anything like that on the liberal side. 
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markjo

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Re: Who will win the election?
« Reply #1641 on: January 11, 2021, 06:35:41 AM »
Looks like there might be some time before all of the potential cyber security issues get worked out.
Quote from: https://www.wired.com/story/capitol-riot-security-congress-trump-mob-clean-up/
Allowing physical access to a location can have serious cybersecurity ramifications. Rioters could have bugged congressional offices, exfiltrated data from unlocked computers, or installed malware on exposed devices. In the rush to evacuate the Capitol, some computers were left unlocked and remained accessible by the time rioters arrived. And at least some equipment was stolen; Senator Jeff Merkley of Oregon said in a video late Wednesday that intruders took one of his office's laptops off a conference table.
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Jamie

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Re: Who will win the election?
« Reply #1642 on: January 11, 2021, 06:38:31 AM »
Quote from: Crouton on January 10, 2021, 01:16:35 PM
I'm keeping track of the general reaction on Fox News.  This seems to have taken them off guard.  But they're quickly reassembling their propaganda machine.  They agree that trying to overthrow democracy is bad but twitter banning the people that keep trying to overthrow democracy is at least as much of a problem.

Isn't it wild that some numbnuts consider that censorship?

It isn't censorship for a private company to refuse to freely host someone's content and rhetoric which is an extreme liability to the company.
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Jamie

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Re: Who will win the election?
« Reply #1643 on: January 11, 2021, 06:42:11 AM »
Quote from: Denspressure on January 11, 2021, 03:30:07 AM
I thought a lot of americans voted for trump because they didn't want an other war with Hillary?

So much for that...

At least not in the middle east this time.

I actually voted for Gov. Gary Johnson in 2016. A lot of people didn't because of the Aleppo incident, but I kinda loved that this guy didn't even know the capital of Syria -- his mind was totally on the U.S. of A. Y'know, which a President should be preoccupied with. Sorry, Syria.

But alas, Trump won. And I was pleasantly surprised when he didn't start any new wars, made some (initial) progress with the North Koreans... but he hasn't exactly navigated foreign or international relations with the diplomatic edge befitting of a leader.
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JJA

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Re: Who will win the election?
« Reply #1644 on: January 11, 2021, 06:50:26 AM »
Quote from: Jamie on January 11, 2021, 06:42:11 AM
But alas, Trump won. And I was pleasantly surprised when he didn't start any new wars, made some (initial) progress with the North Koreans... but he hasn't exactly navigated foreign or international relations with the diplomatic edge befitting of a leader.

What progress? He got all buddy buddy with Kim and got played from the start, giving him all the recognition and press he wanted, even canceling joint exercises with South Korea and attacking NATO.

What did he get in return other than get a boatload of empty promises, which is what Kim hands out to anyone that engages with him?
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Crouton

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Re: Who will win the election?
« Reply #1645 on: January 11, 2021, 07:33:12 AM »
Quote from: Jamie on January 11, 2021, 06:38:31 AM
Quote from: Crouton on January 10, 2021, 01:16:35 PM
I'm keeping track of the general reaction on Fox News.  This seems to have taken them off guard.  But they're quickly reassembling their propaganda machine.  They agree that trying to overthrow democracy is bad but twitter banning the people that keep trying to overthrow democracy is at least as much of a problem.

Isn't it wild that some numbnuts consider that censorship?

It isn't censorship for a private company to refuse to freely host someone's content and rhetoric which is an extreme liability to the company.

I realize it isn't censorship in the in the Constitutional sense.  Given the severity of the situation I'm glad that the tech companies did it.  It's no different than the time big tech got together and wiped out all the white supremacists and Islamic extremists.   It still sort of rubs me the wrong way though.

So Trump gets kicked off twitter etc.  I'm sort of okay with that.  They are private companies.  They can kick out anyone they want. 

Then Parler gets kicked out of the app stores of the major phone operating systems.  Hmm...

Now as of this weekend Amazon's hosting service AWS has dropped Parler.  The site doesn't exist at the moment.

So we have a situation where there are 4 or 5 companies that if they agreed to it can annihilate a person's or a group of person's ability to communicate with any modern technology.  This seems like a worrisome thing to me.  At the very least I think we have some tech monopolies that need to be broken up.  Not specifically because of this incident but it does underscore how much power they have.
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JJA

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Re: Who will win the election?
« Reply #1646 on: January 11, 2021, 07:55:51 AM »
Quote from: Crouton on January 11, 2021, 07:33:12 AM
So we have a situation where there are 4 or 5 companies that if they agreed to it can annihilate a person's or a group of person's ability to communicate with any modern technology.  This seems like a worrisome thing to me.  At the very least I think we have some tech monopolies that need to be broken up.  Not specifically because of this incident but it does underscore how much power they have.

Monopolies are always a problem, regardless of who they are or what industry they are in.

But it's not like these companies got together and decided on a whim to kick off Parler.

Parler was hosting a forum to openly discuss murdering people and commit crimes.  These companies don't want to be involved in that so it's no surprise they are cutting ties with them. 

Parler is going to be back, they will find a host that doesn't care.  Monopiles don't last forever, especially on the internet.

Remember AOL? They used to BE the internet. How much power do their wield now?

Remember MySpace?

LiveJournal?

Remember how Yahoo crushed all the other web sites that tracked new pages?

Remember how AltaVista dominated the other search engines?

Just as AOL used to be the way EVERYONE got on the internet before thousands of other companies sprang up to replace them, Amazon web services is how EVERYONE hosts their content.  Now.  Eventually that will change, and you will be able to host your own datacenter in your house.  Heck, I have a small 3 server datacenter I run everything I need off of and it sits on a corner of my desk.

Parler could host their own machines.  The right wing assholes who fund them just were cheap and went with Amazon.  They could easily bypass these other companies. 
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Denspressure

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Re: Who will win the election?
« Reply #1647 on: January 11, 2021, 08:04:54 AM »
So he still has free speech, there are just more steps involved to get his speech out.
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JJA

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Re: Who will win the election?
« Reply #1648 on: January 11, 2021, 08:11:36 AM »
Quote from: Denspressure on January 11, 2021, 08:04:54 AM
So he still has free speech, there are just more steps involved to get his speech out.

Yes... he simply has to do what every other President in the history of the Unites States has done... go in front of people and talk.

Trump wanting to tweet from his bedroom instead of stand before the people and talk isn't infringing on his first amendment rights.

It's absurd to think the President is muzzled.  He can go on any talk show or news program any time he wants.  He can hold a press conference any time he wants.  He has the ability to reach more people than anyone else in the country. 

He's just sulking.
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Crouton

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Re: Who will win the election?
« Reply #1649 on: January 11, 2021, 08:16:33 AM »
https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/01/11/business/us-economy-coronavirus
https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2021/01/10/marriott-campaign-donations-congress/

If you work for a company that has a super pac you should consider contacting whoever is in charge of it and asking them to join in.
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The truth behind NASA's budget
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