What would change your mind?

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #2430 on: December 31, 2020, 06:28:05 AM »
Also

Still waiting for your photo of the two tubes

As well new question - where is water supposed to fall off if the world is a ball?

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sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #2431 on: December 31, 2020, 06:29:04 AM »
Right.
Hold a ball on a flat plate so it is free to roll as soon as you start spinning.
Now start spinning - at 1 rotation per 24hr.

Let me know how fadt that ball shoots off your plate.
Hold the plate level, with a photo of the level, and include some tubes while youre at it, just for fun.
I'll need to spin the ball as fast as it's needed in order for the ball to fatten out at its equator.
Spinning it at one rotation in 24 hours will do nothing.

So tell me:
What makes your Earth fatten out at the equator, because I was led to believe it was this 1000+ mph spin.
Maybe you can verify this or put another take on it.
 Can you?

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sceptimatic

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #2432 on: December 31, 2020, 06:32:50 AM »
Also

Still waiting for your photo of the two tubes

As well new question - where is water supposed to fall off if the world is a ball?
I'm waiting for you or someone else to show me the two tubes. JJA had all the expensive equipment set up and claimed he could not afford the extra tube required to follow my instructions. Can you lend him one?

As for the water.
If it was on a ball it would fall off any any point you place it as you turn the ball, unless you've managed to show real life that it doesn't. Have you?
I don't mean telling me to look at the oceans, because you know fine well how ridiculous that is to pass off as a water filled globe.

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #2433 on: December 31, 2020, 06:36:11 AM »
Also

Still waiting for your photo of the two tubes

As well new question - where is water supposed to fall off if the world is a ball?
I'm waiting for you or someone else to show me the two tubes. JJA had all the expensive equipment set up and claimed he could not afford the extra tube required to follow my instructions. Can you lend him one?

As for the water.
If it was on a ball it would fall off any any point you place it as you turn the ball, unless you've managed to show real life that it doesn't. Have you?
I don't mean telling me to look at the oceans, because you know fine well how ridiculous that is to pass off as a water filled globe.


Jja gave up because you kept changing the requirements.
We asked YOU dince you know the perfect setup to prove us all what you see.
Its the only way for us to understand what you perceive as reality.
Fake your photo.
Highlight what we re supposed to see.
Teach us something.



Aaaaaaaah what?
Where is down on a globe?

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JJA

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #2434 on: December 31, 2020, 06:42:36 AM »

So now I'm part of some global conspiracy because I looked through a tube and saw the ground?
Nooooo. You're just a person on the forum who thought he could pull the wool. You aren't the first and you certainly won't be the last.
I did respect your efforts, though.

Quote from: JJA
Yes, the whole world is conspiring against you.

Not at all. The world is not the people.

Quote from: JJA
Once more you have nothing and refuse to even take a picture through a tube.  How many hundreds of posts have you made about your tube but won't even take a simple picture?  That's an amazing amount of work all to avoid doing such a simple thing.

Which you claim you already did, but won't show anyone for reasons. Sure.
I know what's what. You do, too....but the reality seems to scare the hell out of you.

Literally ANYONE can look through a tube and see exactly what I showed in my pictures.  It takes a whole 5 minutes to find a tube, go outside and look to verify that I'm not lying. You are.

So yes, it's you against everyone in the entire world since only you seem to be unable to look through a tube correctly and somehow think you can't see the sky or the ground through it. Everyone else has looked through a tube and knows what you will see.

Reality doesn't scare me, but it certainly terrifies you. Why else would you be too afraid to look through a tube and post a picture of it? You do an awful lot of work to avoid such a simple thing.

Out of everything you have said here, this has to be the best evidence of your living in your own reality. It's so easy to prove you wrong, just look through a tube. But you seem incapable of even understanding the concept of being wrong.

How you get through everyday life is a mystery.

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JJA

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #2435 on: December 31, 2020, 06:44:32 AM »
Also

Still waiting for your photo of the two tubes

As well new question - where is water supposed to fall off if the world is a ball?
I'm waiting for you or someone else to show me the two tubes. JJA had all the expensive equipment set up and claimed he could not afford the extra tube required to follow my instructions. Can you lend him one?

Liar.

I never said I couldn't afford another tube.  I said I didn't have one and it wasn't worth the effort to go get one, since you would just change your demand to three tubes if I did.

Why can't you follow your own instructions and show us? Too lazy, or too complicated for you to manage? It involves looking through a tube after all.

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sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 30061
Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #2436 on: December 31, 2020, 06:47:29 AM »
Literally ANYONE can look through a tube and see exactly what I showed in my pictures.  It takes a whole 5 minutes to find a tube, go outside and look to verify that I'm not lying. You are.


The issue is not what you see through a tube when you're outside. It;'s in how you see through it after you were instructed.
You seriously think you can pull the wool over my eyes by setting up a tube on a downward slope and levelling that tube still shows you that downward slope.
What a joke.

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sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 30061
Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #2437 on: December 31, 2020, 06:49:49 AM »
Also

Still waiting for your photo of the two tubes

As well new question - where is water supposed to fall off if the world is a ball?
I'm waiting for you or someone else to show me the two tubes. JJA had all the expensive equipment set up and claimed he could not afford the extra tube required to follow my instructions. Can you lend him one?

Liar.

I never said I couldn't afford another tube.  I said I didn't have one and it wasn't worth the effort to go get one, since you would just change your demand to three tubes if I did.

Why can't you follow your own instructions and show us? Too lazy, or too complicated for you to manage? It involves looking through a tube after all.
You bottled it and you know it.
I'm not surprised you did bottle it. I knew you'd struggle to find a way out of it.
I'd hazard a guess that, while you are arguing the toss with me, you are trying to find a way to set it up to try the dupe. I'd love to see your efforts.
I'd prefer to see honesty...but.

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JJA

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #2438 on: December 31, 2020, 06:52:37 AM »
Literally ANYONE can look through a tube and see exactly what I showed in my pictures.  It takes a whole 5 minutes to find a tube, go outside and look to verify that I'm not lying. You are.


The issue is not what you see through a tube when you're outside. It;'s in how you see through it after you were instructed.
You seriously think you can pull the wool over my eyes by setting up a tube on a downward slope and levelling that tube still shows you that downward slope.
What a joke.

No, anyone can repeat this 'experiment' with a level toilet paper tube and see the ground.  Anyone.  It takes five minutes to verify my results and see exactly what my pictures showed.

If I was lying and tilting it down and faking it, don't you think SOMEONE would post pictures of their own showing the real view?

But nobody has because nobody can even understand what you THINK you would see. Nothing you say makes any sense. If we can't see the ground or the sky then what exactly do you imagine it even looks like?

Nobody is lying to you or fooling you or tricking you. It's all in your head, and all of the other billions of people who have looked through tubes sees exactly what I have shown.

You can claim I am trying to trick you all you want, but everyone else can simply look through a tube and see the truth. Everyone except you.

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JJA

  • 6869
  • Math is math!
Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #2439 on: December 31, 2020, 06:56:18 AM »
Also

Still waiting for your photo of the two tubes

As well new question - where is water supposed to fall off if the world is a ball?
I'm waiting for you or someone else to show me the two tubes. JJA had all the expensive equipment set up and claimed he could not afford the extra tube required to follow my instructions. Can you lend him one?

Liar.

I never said I couldn't afford another tube.  I said I didn't have one and it wasn't worth the effort to go get one, since you would just change your demand to three tubes if I did.

Why can't you follow your own instructions and show us? Too lazy, or too complicated for you to manage? It involves looking through a tube after all.
You bottled it and you know it.
I'm not surprised you did bottle it. I knew you'd struggle to find a way out of it.
I'd hazard a guess that, while you are arguing the toss with me, you are trying to find a way to set it up to try the dupe. I'd love to see your efforts.
I'd prefer to see honesty...but.

You can't even explain why you find it impossible to show pictures of an experiment you claimed to have performed.

You are also constantly missing the point that this is not a hard experiment for anyone else to perform, and anyone can verify my results. Anyone but you.

Why would I bother to fake an experiment that can be so easily done by anyone reading this?  It's just a tube.  You just look through it.  ::)

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #2440 on: December 31, 2020, 07:28:22 AM »
So would you or wouldn't you like me to post a couple of my OWN planetary images?  So you can see what your lights in the sky really look like with a bit of magnification applied to them.

I can promise you any image I post is one I have personally taken with my own equipment and processed myself to bring out the details in them.

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sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #2441 on: December 31, 2020, 07:30:17 AM »
Literally ANYONE can look through a tube and see exactly what I showed in my pictures.  It takes a whole 5 minutes to find a tube, go outside and look to verify that I'm not lying. You are.


The issue is not what you see through a tube when you're outside. It;'s in how you see through it after you were instructed.
You seriously think you can pull the wool over my eyes by setting up a tube on a downward slope and levelling that tube still shows you that downward slope.
What a joke.

No, anyone can repeat this 'experiment' with a level toilet paper tube and see the ground.  Anyone.  It takes five minutes to verify my results and see exactly what my pictures showed.

If I was lying and tilting it down and faking it, don't you think SOMEONE would post pictures of their own showing the real view?

But nobody has because nobody can even understand what you THINK you would see. Nothing you say makes any sense. If we can't see the ground or the sky then what exactly do you imagine it even looks like?

Nobody is lying to you or fooling you or tricking you. It's all in your head, and all of the other billions of people who have looked through tubes sees exactly what I have shown.

You can claim I am trying to trick you all you want, but everyone else can simply look through a tube and see the truth. Everyone except you.
Nobody needs to post anything. It's me against you lot. Nobody else is backing me up.
This is all you lot backpatting each other. I wouldn't expect anything else.

You bottled it.

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sceptimatic

  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 30061
Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #2442 on: December 31, 2020, 07:31:18 AM »
So would you or wouldn't you like me to post a couple of my OWN planetary images?  So you can see what your lights in the sky really look like with a bit of magnification applied to them.

I can promise you any image I post is one I have personally taken with my own equipment and processed myself to bring out the details in them.
Come on then, let's see them.

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JJA

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #2443 on: December 31, 2020, 07:40:17 AM »
Nobody needs to post anything. It's me against you lot. Nobody else is backing me up.
This is all you lot backpatting each other. I wouldn't expect anything else.

You bottled it.

No, this is you making a wild claim, everyone else showing you that you're wrong, and you doing NOTHING to show any evidence at all.

The reason nobody is backing you up is because everyone can look through a tube and see it works just like my pictures.  What is there to back up, you haven't made a coherent argument.

You are amazingly lazy. You make wild claims, then expect everyone else to do your work for you and whine when they get tired of your endless childish demands.

You made the claim, it's your responsibility to provide evidence for it.

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #2444 on: December 31, 2020, 07:40:42 AM »
Ok well here is Saturn for starters.  Always a good one since the rings provide that enhanced sensation of depth and 3D.  Look carefully and you can even see part of the rings next to the disk hidden due to the shadow.


Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #2445 on: December 31, 2020, 07:46:43 AM »
Here's another taken with the other telescope which is a specialist solar telescope.  Here we are using purely the light of the H alpha line and so looking at the chromosphere of the Sun.  That is the normally invisible layer of the solar atmosphere directly above the photosphere.  Temperature increase here to about 20,000K which is why the chromosphere produces an emission spectrum rather than an absorption spectrum.  The telescope can take advantage of this and 'zoom in' to the H alpha line at 626.3nm.  It does this by employing a double interference filter which eliminates all the light apart from the specific wavelength I am after.


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JJA

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #2446 on: December 31, 2020, 07:50:19 AM »
Those are great pictures, I've always wanted an H-Alpha band telescope but I don't get enough sunny days here to make it worth it.

I got some great Milky Way shots when I was driving across country, lots of spots in the middle of nowhere with no light pollution.  Would be nice to live there for the view but then again, I like big cities and everything they can provide. Just not a view of the sky.

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #2447 on: December 31, 2020, 07:56:56 AM »
Well thank you.  Plenty more where they came from but this is not an astroimaging forum after all. Name a target though and I will image it for you.  So that's my offering. Lets see what Sceptimatic has in his photo album.

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JJA

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  • Math is math!
Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #2448 on: December 31, 2020, 08:05:30 AM »
Well thank you.  Plenty more where they came from but this is not an astroimaging forum after all. Name a target though and I will image it for you.  So that's my offering. Lets see what Sceptimatic has in his photo album.

If looking through a toilet paper tube is beyond his abilities, I can't imagine the trouble he would have trying to operate a telescope.

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rvlvr

  • 2148
Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #2449 on: December 31, 2020, 08:41:55 AM »
Where are the FE scientists who have conducted experiments? Beyond the Curve showed two experiments, which both failed*.

There was the one who photographed a channel or canal back in the day. Are they the only ones?

*Did not give the result they expected.

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #2450 on: December 31, 2020, 08:54:09 AM »
Well here are my 'tubes'   The solar telescope us nearest the camera while the centre one is the 10" planetary imaging scope while the smallest one furthest from the camera (Takahashi FSQ106ED) is a dedicated for deep sky imaging.

All scopes are mounted on a computerised equatorial mount which is self-tracking and aligned to the NCP to within 30' arc.  Since this is not an astronomy forum though I won't go into any more details but if you have an specific questions about anything feel free to PM me.

« Last Edit: December 31, 2020, 08:59:07 AM by Solarwind »

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #2451 on: December 31, 2020, 09:20:26 AM »
Take a picture of your telescope with todays newspaper and an apple with a pencil stuck in the side to prove this isnt a generic internet photo you grabbed.


Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #2452 on: December 31, 2020, 09:35:28 AM »
That photo was taken back in the summer while I was observing the Sun but I will certainly take an image of the mount in approximately the same position with an apple balanced on top tomorrow during daylight if that would qualify as proof.  We don't get newspapers here.

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JJA

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Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #2453 on: December 31, 2020, 09:39:11 AM »
That photo was taken back in the summer while I was observing the Sun but I will certainly take an image of the mount in approximately the same position with an apple balanced on top tomorrow during daylight if that would qualify as proof.  We don't get newspapers here.

That's a start, but after that we will demand you eat the apple on video to prove it's not fake.

Once you do that then more conditions will be added.  If you ever refuse then everyone can smugly call you a fake because you won't follow our dumb instructions anymore.

 :P

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #2454 on: December 31, 2020, 09:45:25 AM »
Nice pics there solarwind thanks.

I took this picture about 13 years ago. It was taken using a Meade lx90 8 inch and a cannon 350D, and if I remember correctly the picture consists of ten 30 second exposures stacked together using photoshop. I'm no expert, but was very pleased with this image, Its m104 "The Sombrero Galaxy". I don't have the scope anymore, and haven't done any amateur astronomy for years now, wish I still did though.


Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #2455 on: December 31, 2020, 10:26:30 AM »
To stay on topic: If you're a flat earther, would the picture above change your mind about the universe being small in FET? apparently m104 is about 50 million light years away.

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #2456 on: December 31, 2020, 12:30:46 PM »
Apparently it is.  A distance measured by two completely different methods. Namely Type 1a supernova and through Cepheid variable monitoring via the Hubble.  50 million lightyears makes it one of our nearer galactic neighbours although not close enough to be part of the local group.

I have to say that I find the FE approach to astronomy quite intriguing.  To me it is all perfectly natural and logical. But the FE side is always tinged with an air of denial about it all.  Without any real justification for that denial. Which is a great shame I think.

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JackBlack

  • 21870
Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #2457 on: December 31, 2020, 01:26:17 PM »
I'm not backed into any corner and you have provided zero evidence of anything that proves you right and me wrong.
I skipped the evidence as I knew you would simply dismiss it, but I have provided logical arguments and diagrams and simple questions which show beyond any doubt that you are wrong. Unlike the evidence, there is no way for these logical arguments or diagrams to be a con, so there is no excuse for you to use, so you simply ignore them, repeatedly.
That shows just how you have been backed into a corner with no way out.

If you weren't backed into a corner, and hadn't been shown to be wrong beyond any sane doubt, you would have addressed the arguments and diagrams, clearly pointing out what is wrong with it with an actual justification, rather than simply dismissing them or ignoring them.
Likewise, you would actually answer the questions asked of you.

Remember this diagram I provided plenty of times:

Remember how I repeatedly asked you what magic stops the ray of light indicated by the blue line from reaching the eye?
This is a simple disproof of your insanity. The light reaching your eye from a tube doesn't come into the tube parallel. That would require a lens, like in the below diagram.

Without such a lens, the light simply comes in in a straight line, and thus you see things below the tube, including potentially the ground, like in this scale diagram of a RE:


So unless you can tell us what magic stops the blue line, you have been backed into a corner and shown to be wrong beyond any doubt.

Likewise, remember this argument you repeatedly ignored (or came up with pathetic excuses to try to avoid it) because it clearly shows you are wrong:
1 - Looking down you see ground/sea, i.e. EARTH.
2 - Looking up you see sky.
3 - That means if you started out looking down and slowly raised your head, your would see some kind of transition between ground/sea and sky.
4 - Assuming there isn't anything getting in your way, this transition would be a line; below this line you would see ground/sea and above this line you would see sky.
5 - This is just like if you look at a basketball. You can see a line, "below" this line you see the ball, "above" this line you see the surroundings.
6 - This line would be the horizon for a round earth. So now the question becomes where is this line?
7 - Simple trig shows that the relationship between this angle, as measured from level, the radius of the ball, and your distance/height from the surface is:
cos(a)=r/(r+h).
8 - Doing the math for a RE when you are 2 m above it shows the horizon would only be 2.7 arc minutes below level, i.e. imperceptibly different from level, and entirely consistent with what is observed.
9 - This means if you were to look through a level scope, which is positioned at 2 m above level, with a FOV >= 5.4 arc minutes, you would see the horizon on the globe.

If you weren't backed into a corner and shown to be wrong beyond any doubt you would have clearly pointed which point(s) of this argument you think are wrong, why you think it is wrong and what the correct version should be.

Likewise, you would have answered the question which is dealing with the first points of the argument you haven't accepted yet:
Just what do you think visually separates the ground/sea from the sky on a RE?
i.e. you start looking down seeing nothing but ground/sea. And you then slowly lift your head up, eventually reaching nothing but sky.
Just what do you think you see in between?

Instead you continually appeal to a level scope and your baseless and refuted assertion that the horizon shouldn't be seen through a level scope. You do this as an excuse to ignore the simple question which establishes beyond any doubt that the RE DOES have a horizon, while you also repeatedly claim that the RE doesn't have a horizon at all, anywhere.

So it is quite clear that you have been backed into a corner and shown to be wrong beyond any doubt.

But in terms of evidence, plenty of evidence has been provided by others which show beyond any sane doubt that you are wrong.
But you reject it as a con job, with no justification at all. The only reason you reject it as a con-job is because it shows you are wrong and you have no interest in admitting you are wrong.

And your refusal to provide a complete list of requirements, which if met, means you simply admit you are wrong rather than looking for more excuses also shows not only that you have been backed into a corner, but that you also likely know you are wrong (as does your complete refusal to provide evidence of your own to show what you repeatedly claim we should see).

I started to respect you
No you didn't.
The only people you show respect here are those who appear to just be accepting whatever BS you spout.
If they question you to the point you cannot answer them, or they show you are wrong, you insult them; just like you insulted him by accusing him of faking evidence.

Respecting him would be accepting what he showed as evidence that you are wrong. But that would basically be accepting that you are wrong, so of course you wont do that.

No it does not.
You are technically correct as it doesn't work at all, regardless of the shape of Earth, but you are yet provide any justification (which is actual justification rather than a nonsense excuse which has been refuted) for why it shouldn't work on a round Earth if it did work on a flat Earth.

And also, how can you even say that when you struggle to understand my theory?
Realising your model is pure nonsense doesn't mean we don't understand it.

Either way, it shows your claim for why we reject it is pure garbage.
It doesn't matter if we merely think it works just as well for a RE or if it actually does work just as well for a RE, either way, we think it works just as well for a RE and thus there is no need to reject it to cling to a RE.

You cannot show anything that verifies a sphere in the sky, no matter what you produce.
Plenty of people can. It just would never be enough for you, as you have no interest in accepting reality.

You're here to try and ridicule alternate thinkers into global compliance, once again.
You're failing with each post....but, your efforts are respected by myself.
Don't get mixed up.
And there you go projecting yet again.
You are the one attempting to ridicule people, not us.
You are the one repeatedly failing, not us.
Clearly explaining why you are wrong is not ridiculing you.
Providing plenty of evidence that shows you are wrong is not ridiculing you.

You repeatedly making baseless assertions and dismissing reality as nonsense and those who support it as indoctrinated fools is attempting to ridicule.

I do claim the spinning globe nonsense as fiction. I stand by it for reasons I've given.
What reasons?
Do you mean your refuted strawmen? Or your baseless assertions contradicted by plenty of evidence which you just dismiss as a con-job?
Because I am yet to see you provide anything that actually indicates Earth is not round or spinning.

As for my stuff. I've already set it out as potential (to me) without fact (to others).
And we have shown it makes no sense and in plenty of cases is completely false.

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JackBlack

  • 21870
Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #2458 on: December 31, 2020, 01:26:55 PM »
But a body of water can be supposedly pulled towards the centre of Earth and not fall off the globe you believe we walk upon
"Fall off the globe" makes no sense.
Fall implies falling downwards, but that is towards the globe.

but a grain of sand and the mountain pose no such so called pull from it.
You know this is nonsense.
We know the garbage you spout is nonsense.
The grain of sand and mountain are also pulled towards Earth. The force attracting the grain of sand to the mountain is tiny compared to the force attracting the grain of sand towards the centre of Earth. The net force on the grain of sand from gravity is basically straight down to the centre of Earth.

It's weak when it wants to be but strong enough to pull in a moon.
What moon is it pulling in?
Do you mean it is strong enough to keep the moon in orbit?
That is just because of how massive the moon is.

I don't need calculations to see what pressure we can clearly see happening when we try to alter the balance.
The only balance pressure cares about is the balance of pressure. If that was all there was, there would be no pressure gradients and no other forces.
As soon as you have multiple forces you need calculations to determine the net force.

At least you are being honest.
You should try it some time.

Lots of stuff that I question and won't accept as true unless I am shown that truth.
You unconditionally accept it, it seems, without real proof.
And more lies.
What you reject (not merely question) you will not accept as true, even when shown that truth. Instead you will continue to reject it as you have done repeatedly in this thread.
What we accept as true, we do not accept unconditionally. We accept it based upon the plentiful evidence supporting it, and will only accept it until it can be shown to be wrong. And by that I don't mean you just lie and say it is wrong, not show a problem with a strawman, but actually show a problem with it.

I don't just accept a big ball of fire in a vacuum like I did when I had little time to think.
Yet you cannot show any problem with it.

If your globe spins at the speeds that's said and the globe fattens out towards the equator because of this...as we're told, then don't you think the water in the seas would be compromised?
Do you mean it would bulge out at the equator just like Earth itself?
If so, yes, and it does.

Or do you mean it would all fly to the equator? If so, no. This is where actual calculations can help.
Trying to do it without calculations can be quite problematic.
You have the rotation of Earth trying to move water to the equator and outwards from that.
But countering that you have gravity trying to pull the water down.
Gravity tries to make a sphere, the spinning tries to make an ever expanding ring.
The net result is an oblate spheroid, where gravity is the primary force making it roughly a sphere, while the rotation makes it bludge out at the equator.
The level surface is an equipotential surface where the water doesn't continue to flow towards the equator as that would make it too high and result in gravity pulling it back down.

This makes sense. And all you can do is try to ridicule it rather than try to show a problem with it.

You're just a person on the forum who thought he could pull the wool.
No, that would be you, continually trying to lie to everyone to try to con them into rejecting the globe.

I did respect your efforts, though.
No you didn't. You rejected it as a con-job.
Rejecting it as a con-job is not respecting it.
Respecting it would be accepting it as an honest attempt to observe and document reality, it would be accepting it as evidence that you are wrong, and only rejecting it if you can actually show a technical fault with it, or if you can provide counter evidence.

I know what's what. You do, too....but the reality seems to scare the hell out of you.
And projecting again.
You are the one refusing to provide a photo to show you are wrong, so scared you outright refuse to provide evidence of your own and reject all evidence as a con-job.
We all know you are wrong.

I'm waiting for you or someone else to show me the two tubes.
And we are all waiting for you to do so.

claimed he could not afford the extra tube required to follow my instructions.
No, that isn't what he claimed.
But everyone can see that that would be a completely pointless exercise, as you will just dismiss it as well, and 2 tubes does nothing except make the entire thing harder. It is a needless complexity.

Again, maybe if you provide a comprehensive list of requirements such that when the evidence is provided you will simply accept that you are wrong without excuse, then someone might be willing to do it.

Re: What would change your mind?
« Reply #2459 on: December 31, 2020, 02:52:16 PM »
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They simply tell us that gravity does this and that.......not what it is as a force and why mass attracts mass only when the situation suits.

Why does anybody need to understand how gravity works to know what it does?  That is like saying you need to understand how a car works in order to drive one.  As everyday experience tells us, clearly you don't. Name me any piece of equipment that is commonly used in life which we need to know how it works in order to use it.

Books tell us that any object with mass attracts any other object with mass and they tell us how to calculate the size of the force that exists between them.  If you then go on to measure that force (where practicable) you will find it is correct.  Is that what you mean by being 'indoctrinated'?  Being told what the force will be between two objects and then being able to confirm it by measurement?  That happens a lot in science, you should try it sometime.

What more do you need to know than that?

Did you not like my photos?  You accepted my invitation to post a couple pretty quickly but you haven't made any comment about them since. 

When scientists consider alternate theories or models, they do not eliminate any until sufficient evidence has been clearly presented that favours one over the others. Science is about process of elimination.

Your version of 'alternate thinking' is to cast aside as irrelevant and wrong anything which doesn't conform with your beliefs straightaway. So for you it's Sceptimatics model or no model.  Where is the science in that?

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If your globe spins at the speeds that's said and the globe fattens out towards the equator because of this...as we're told, then don't you think the water in the seas would be compromised?

Compromised... how exactly?  What do you think it is going to do, fly off into space or something?   Ahh so that is why the media are always telling us there is a water shortage!
« Last Edit: December 31, 2020, 03:22:12 PM by Solarwind »