Conspiracies

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Rayzor

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Re: Conspiracies
« Reply #30 on: May 18, 2015, 01:05:15 AM »
abaaaabbbb63 is right, and the numbers I was using were from the time of the Apollo missions.  The skepticism around the Apollo missions are not caused by whistle blowers, they originated with people who thought they saw proof that the Moon landings were faked in the footage taken from the Moon.  These "proofs" that the Moon landings are fake are all very easy to debunk with a bit of spacial reasoning and physics research.

I still think that there would have to be well over 1,000,000 people in on the conspiracy in order to fake space travel, mostly because of the dozens of space agencies around the world and the 40,000+ private contractors who regularly work for NASA.  In WWII, Adalf Hitler used indoctrination, bribes, and threats to try to keep people silent and yet there were still whistle blowers.  Why do you think there would be no whistle blowers from NASA claiming that space flight is fake and the Earth is flat?  As I've mentioned before, even having 100 people in on a conspiracy is too risky for any reasonable person to attempt, let alone all the people they would need to be in on it to fake space travel.

You did mention the money left over after NASA does all of it's alleged fakery would be enough to pay each employee $1,000,000, but in reality faking space travel is actually more expensive then going to space.  Faking media takes a lot of man power and a lot of time, meaning that it's very expensive, and NASA releases more information then all major movie companies combined.  Major movie companies have tons of skilled animators and directors to make their movies and often that footage ends up costing hundreds to thousands of dollars per second of video.  YouTube channels like cinema sins show that movies always have various flaws in their story line that would give away that it's fake if it were to be passed off as real.  Just faking the footage captured by space crafts would often cost more then actually launching the space craft, and don't even get me started on what it would take to fake the launch which by the way is observed my thousands of ordinary people.
Can you substantiate the claim that it would be more expensive to make this:

Out of sheet metal and tin foil than to actually make one that works, send it into space, land it softly on the moon, and then come back perfectly unharmed?

Of course it would be more expensive to fake,   no question.  You have to do absolutely everything the same as a real mission,  no shortcuts on design or materials, and then you have to create the fake moon environment, complete with 1/6g,  and fake moon rocks good enough to fool universities world wide.   Nah,  cheaper to do it for real.   Which is what they did.

BTW,  the LEM never came back to earth.  You need to sharpen the research.
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th3rm0m3t3r0

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Re: Conspiracies
« Reply #31 on: May 18, 2015, 01:10:36 AM »
abaaaabbbb63 is right, and the numbers I was using were from the time of the Apollo missions.  The skepticism around the Apollo missions are not caused by whistle blowers, they originated with people who thought they saw proof that the Moon landings were faked in the footage taken from the Moon.  These "proofs" that the Moon landings are fake are all very easy to debunk with a bit of spacial reasoning and physics research.

I still think that there would have to be well over 1,000,000 people in on the conspiracy in order to fake space travel, mostly because of the dozens of space agencies around the world and the 40,000+ private contractors who regularly work for NASA.  In WWII, Adalf Hitler used indoctrination, bribes, and threats to try to keep people silent and yet there were still whistle blowers.  Why do you think there would be no whistle blowers from NASA claiming that space flight is fake and the Earth is flat?  As I've mentioned before, even having 100 people in on a conspiracy is too risky for any reasonable person to attempt, let alone all the people they would need to be in on it to fake space travel.

You did mention the money left over after NASA does all of it's alleged fakery would be enough to pay each employee $1,000,000, but in reality faking space travel is actually more expensive then going to space.  Faking media takes a lot of man power and a lot of time, meaning that it's very expensive, and NASA releases more information then all major movie companies combined.  Major movie companies have tons of skilled animators and directors to make their movies and often that footage ends up costing hundreds to thousands of dollars per second of video.  YouTube channels like cinema sins show that movies always have various flaws in their story line that would give away that it's fake if it were to be passed off as real.  Just faking the footage captured by space crafts would often cost more then actually launching the space craft, and don't even get me started on what it would take to fake the launch which by the way is observed my thousands of ordinary people.
Can you substantiate the claim that it would be more expensive to make this:

Out of sheet metal and tin foil than to actually make one that works, send it into space, land it softly on the moon, and then come back perfectly unharmed?

Of course it would be more expensive to fake,   no question.  You have to do absolutely everything the same as a real mission,  no shortcuts on design or materials, and then you have to create the fake moon environment, complete with 1/6g,  and fake moon rocks good enough to fool universities world wide.   Nah,  cheaper to do it for real.   Which is what they did.

BTW,  the LEM never came back to earth.  You need to sharpen the research.
I meant the men that allegedly came back to Earth, not the lander.
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You think that would be hard to fake? Billions of dollars hard?
Materials: Tin Foil, Sheet Metal, Sand, Rocks, Two People, and a suspension system that retains 5/6th of their weight.
I could do that in my back yard, given enough time.


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Re: Conspiracies
« Reply #32 on: May 18, 2015, 04:09:02 AM »
Why just NASA?  There are 38 space agencies - 14 with launch capability.  There is a $300 billion a year space industry.

The the private sector satellite industry in the US alone employs 250,000 people.  Worldwide it will number millions.  Who is paying their wages, and how?  How come of none of them worked out the entire thing is a conspiracy set up by unidentified people for unidentified reasons?

Then of course the conspiracy must somehow reproduce GPS, satellite telephony, satellite TV and satellite based internet services.  Whilst making sure their magic is looks like it is from actual satellite and fooling all the world's engineers.

There are 2,271 satellites in orbit - every single one of them creating a service for a paying customer - somehow all of these services must be spoofed by The Conspiracy.  How is this done?  How many people does it take?

That's just the space industry.  The conspiracy must also incorporate all the world's astronomers, meteorologists, pilots, surveyors, cartographers, geodesists....to name but a few.
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mikeman7918

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Re: Conspiracies
« Reply #33 on: May 18, 2015, 08:09:49 AM »
Can you substantiate the claim that it would be more expensive to make this:

Out of sheet metal and tin foil than to actually make one that works, send it into space, land it softly on the moon, and then come back perfectly unharmed?

Making a fake lunar lander is a lot cheaper then making a real one and putting it on the Moon, but that's not the only thing involved.  Faking the Apollo mission would require things like making fake Moon rocks that fool universities, faking images from space like the blue marble, making and launching a mock up Saturn V, doing it all 5 more times, making a real Saturn V to put on display on the Kenedy Space Center, making a real lunar lander and command module to put on display at the Smithsonian air and space museum (which I have personally seen), and of course the bribes which don't always work in real life.

A single Saturn V costs about 6 billion dollars which is only enough money to bribe 6,000 people with $1,000,000 and bribing just the 400,000 people working at the space center would mean that the funding given to NASA for a single Saturn V would only pay each person $15,000.  NASA worked with over 40,000 private contractors and many of their employees would have to be in on it like the people at Boeing who built the first stage.  NASA wouldn't make any money at all faking space travel, in fact they would loose a ton of money.

The probelem with saying that bribes are the reason people are kept quiet is that bribing doesn't always work.  I don't know about you but if someone came up to me sating that the Earth is flat, space travel isn't real, and they pay me $1,000,000 per year to keep quiet then I would turn it down and blow the whistle.  Some people cannot be bought which is why even 100 people being in on a conspiracy is incredibly risky because not one of them could be soneone who can't be bought.  It's also worth noting that NASA employees don't live in mansions and drive fancy cars, so clearly they have not been receiving milions of dollars under the table.
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th3rm0m3t3r0

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Re: Conspiracies
« Reply #34 on: May 18, 2015, 12:02:01 PM »
Can you substantiate the claim that it would be more expensive to make this:

Out of sheet metal and tin foil than to actually make one that works, send it into space, land it softly on the moon, and then come back perfectly unharmed?

Making a fake lunar lander is a lot cheaper then making a real one and putting it on the Moon, but that's not the only thing involved.  Faking the Apollo mission would require things like making fake Moon rocks that fool universities, faking images from space like the blue marble, making and launching a mock up Saturn V, doing it all 5 more times, making a real Saturn V to put on display on the Kenedy Space Center, making a real lunar lander and command module to put on display at the Smithsonian air and space museum (which I have personally seen), and of course the bribes which don't always work in real life.

A single Saturn V costs about 6 billion dollars which is only enough money to bribe 6,000 people with $1,000,000 and bribing just the 400,000 people working at the space center would mean that the funding given to NASA for a single Saturn V would only pay each person $15,000.  NASA worked with over 40,000 private contractors and many of their employees would have to be in on it like the people at Boeing who built the first stage.  NASA wouldn't make any money at all faking space travel, in fact they would loose a ton of money.

The probelem with saying that bribes are the reason people are kept quiet is that bribing doesn't always work.  I don't know about you but if someone came up to me sating that the Earth is flat, space travel isn't real, and they pay me $1,000,000 per year to keep quiet then I would turn it down and blow the whistle.  Some people cannot be bought which is why even 100 people being in on a conspiracy is incredibly risky because not one of them could be soneone who can't be bought.  It's also worth noting that NASA employees don't live in mansions and drive fancy cars, so clearly they have not been receiving milions of dollars under the table.
Are you saying we can't produce fake moon rocks for relatively cheap?
Again, the peak of NASA's workforce was at this time, and they've obviously learned from their mistake.
I really do not believe anyone who says that a million dollars a year is not enough to keep quiet.
You can pay me over $100,000 to keep anything a secret, and rest assured I'll do it.
I understand that money isn't so important to people who don't need it to survive yet (like yourself), but for the rest of us honest, hardworking people, a million dollars a year would be plenty.
Obviously they can't be buying mansions and Ferraris, as this would make the whole thing extremely obvious.
The money goes to support them and their families for the rest of their lives, and even their children after they are dead and gone.
If you ask me, that's worth it.


I don't profess to be correct.
Quote from: sceptimatic
I am correct.

Re: Conspiracies
« Reply #35 on: May 18, 2015, 12:03:59 PM »
Are you saying we can't produce fake moon rocks for relatively cheap?
Again, the peak of NASA's workforce was at this time, and they've obviously learned from their mistake.
I really do not believe anyone who says that a million dollars a year is not enough to keep quiet.
You can pay me over $100,000 to keep anything a secret, and rest assured I'll do it.
I understand that money isn't so important to people who don't need it to survive yet (like yourself), but for the rest of us honest, hardworking people, a million dollars a year would be plenty.
Obviously they can't be buying mansions and Ferraris, as this would make the whole thing extremely obvious.
The money goes to support them and their families for the rest of their lives, and even their children after they are dead and gone.
If you ask me, that's worth it.
Please present your evidence for this mass bribery scheme.
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th3rm0m3t3r0

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Re: Conspiracies
« Reply #36 on: May 18, 2015, 12:05:03 PM »
Are you saying we can't produce fake moon rocks for relatively cheap?
Again, the peak of NASA's workforce was at this time, and they've obviously learned from their mistake.
I really do not believe anyone who says that a million dollars a year is not enough to keep quiet.
You can pay me over $100,000 to keep anything a secret, and rest assured I'll do it.
I understand that money isn't so important to people who don't need it to survive yet (like yourself), but for the rest of us honest, hardworking people, a million dollars a year would be plenty.
Obviously they can't be buying mansions and Ferraris, as this would make the whole thing extremely obvious.
The money goes to support them and their families for the rest of their lives, and even their children after they are dead and gone.
If you ask me, that's worth it.
Please present your evidence for this mass bribery scheme.
NASA's budget coupled with the impossibility of long distance space travel.


I don't profess to be correct.
Quote from: sceptimatic
I am correct.

Re: Conspiracies
« Reply #37 on: May 18, 2015, 12:08:07 PM »
Are you saying we can't produce fake moon rocks for relatively cheap?
Again, the peak of NASA's workforce was at this time, and they've obviously learned from their mistake.
I really do not believe anyone who says that a million dollars a year is not enough to keep quiet.
You can pay me over $100,000 to keep anything a secret, and rest assured I'll do it.
I understand that money isn't so important to people who don't need it to survive yet (like yourself), but for the rest of us honest, hardworking people, a million dollars a year would be plenty.
Obviously they can't be buying mansions and Ferraris, as this would make the whole thing extremely obvious.
The money goes to support them and their families for the rest of their lives, and even their children after they are dead and gone.
If you ask me, that's worth it.
Please present your evidence for this mass bribery scheme.
NASA's budget coupled with the impossibility of long distance space travel.
OK, I'll note that down as a completely unsubstantiated claim then.
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a single photon can pass through two sluts

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th3rm0m3t3r0

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Re: Conspiracies
« Reply #38 on: May 18, 2015, 12:10:50 PM »
Are you saying we can't produce fake moon rocks for relatively cheap?
Again, the peak of NASA's workforce was at this time, and they've obviously learned from their mistake.
I really do not believe anyone who says that a million dollars a year is not enough to keep quiet.
You can pay me over $100,000 to keep anything a secret, and rest assured I'll do it.
I understand that money isn't so important to people who don't need it to survive yet (like yourself), but for the rest of us honest, hardworking people, a million dollars a year would be plenty.
Obviously they can't be buying mansions and Ferraris, as this would make the whole thing extremely obvious.
The money goes to support them and their families for the rest of their lives, and even their children after they are dead and gone.
If you ask me, that's worth it.
Please present your evidence for this mass bribery scheme.
NASA's budget coupled with the impossibility of long distance space travel.
OK, I'll note that down as a completely unsubstantiated claim then.
There's no arguing with you. I'll just say:
Okay.


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I am correct.

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legion

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Re: Conspiracies
« Reply #39 on: May 18, 2015, 12:23:50 PM »
I still think that there would have to be well over 1,000,000 people in on the conspiracy in order to fake space travel...

Where on earth, do you get that ridiculous figure from?
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hoppy

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Re: Conspiracies
« Reply #40 on: May 18, 2015, 02:59:12 PM »
I still think that there would have to be well over 1,000,000 people in on the conspiracy in order to fake space travel...

Where on earth, do you get that ridiculous figure from?
He pulled it out of his *ss, in other words, it's made up.
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mikeman7918

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Re: Conspiracies
« Reply #41 on: May 18, 2015, 04:22:36 PM »
I still think that there would have to be well over 1,000,000 people in on the conspiracy in order to fake space travel...

Where on earth, do you get that ridiculous figure from?

There are dozens of space agencies in the world who work with hundreds of thousands of private contractors.  I seriously can't think of a way where there can be less then 1,000,000 conspirators in order to fake space travel.  Please read my previous posts where I explain it in more detail.
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th3rm0m3t3r0

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Re: Conspiracies
« Reply #42 on: May 18, 2015, 09:33:01 PM »
I still think that there would have to be well over 1,000,000 people in on the conspiracy in order to fake space travel...

Where on earth, do you get that ridiculous figure from?

There are dozens of space agencies in the world who work with hundreds of thousands of private contractors.  I seriously can't think of a way where there can be less then 1,000,000 conspirators in order to fake space travel.  Please read my previous posts where I explain it in more detail.
And everyone that works for/with any of these agencies for any reason needs to be involved in the conspiracy, why exactly?


I don't profess to be correct.
Quote from: sceptimatic
I am correct.

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mikeman7918

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Re: Conspiracies
« Reply #43 on: May 18, 2015, 11:07:27 PM »
I still think that there would have to be well over 1,000,000 people in on the conspiracy in order to fake space travel...

Where on earth, do you get that ridiculous figure from?

There are dozens of space agencies in the world who work with hundreds of thousands of private contractors.  I seriously can't think of a way where there can be less then 1,000,000 conspirators in order to fake space travel.  Please read my previous posts where I explain it in more detail.
And everyone that works for/with any of these agencies for any reason needs to be involved in the conspiracy, why exactly?

If you were one of the thousands of people at Boeing who built the first stage of the Saturn V then you would have to be in on it.  There is even a company in Utah (which is where I live) which made (among other things) the solid rocket boosters for the Space Shuttle.  Anyone who worked on or around the solid rocket boosters would have to be in on the conspiracy.  A simple Goigle search would reveal some if the tens of thousands of private contractors who work for NASA to build rocket parts and stuff.
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See the thread about it here.

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th3rm0m3t3r0

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Re: Conspiracies
« Reply #44 on: May 18, 2015, 11:09:46 PM »
I still think that there would have to be well over 1,000,000 people in on the conspiracy in order to fake space travel...

Where on earth, do you get that ridiculous figure from?

There are dozens of space agencies in the world who work with hundreds of thousands of private contractors.  I seriously can't think of a way where there can be less then 1,000,000 conspirators in order to fake space travel.  Please read my previous posts where I explain it in more detail.
And everyone that works for/with any of these agencies for any reason needs to be involved in the conspiracy, why exactly?

If you were one of the thousands of people at Boeing who built the first stage of the Saturn V then you would have to be in on it.  There is even a company in Utah (which is where I live) which made (among other things) the solid rocket boosters for the Space Shuttle.  Anyone who worked on or around the solid rocket boosters would have to be in on the conspiracy.  A simple Goigle search would reveal some if the tens of thousands of private contractors who work for NASA to build rocket parts and stuff.
So, a guy who helps 25 other people build a heat shield or something of the like must be in on it, along with those 25 others?
I don't follow the logic.


I don't profess to be correct.
Quote from: sceptimatic
I am correct.

Re: Conspiracies
« Reply #45 on: May 19, 2015, 05:21:48 AM »
Why just NASA?  There are 38 space agencies - 14 with launch capability.  There is a $300 billion a year space industry.

The the private sector satellite industry in the US alone employs 250,000 people.  Worldwide it will number millions.  Who is paying their wages, and how?  How come of none of them worked out the entire thing is a conspiracy set up by unidentified people for unidentified reasons?

Then of course the conspiracy must somehow reproduce GPS, satellite telephony, satellite TV and satellite based internet services.  Whilst making sure their magic is looks like it is from actual satellite and fooling all the world's engineers.

There are 2,271 satellites in orbit - every single one of them creating a service for a paying customer - somehow all of these services must be spoofed by The Conspiracy.  How is this done?  How many people does it take?

That's just the space industry.  The conspiracy must also incorporate all the world's astronomers, meteorologists, pilots, surveyors, cartographers, geodesists....to name but a few.
Quote from: mikeman7918
a single photon can pass through two sluts

Quote from: Chicken Fried Clucker
if Donald Trump stuck his penis in me after trying on clothes I would have that date and time burned in my head.

Re: Conspiracies
« Reply #46 on: May 19, 2015, 05:41:33 AM »
Why just NASA?  There are 38 space agencies - 14 with launch capability.  There is a $300 billion a year space industry.

The the private sector satellite industry in the US alone employs 250,000 people.  Worldwide it will number millions.  Who is paying their wages, and how?  How come of none of them worked out the entire thing is a conspiracy set up by unidentified people for unidentified reasons?

Then of course the conspiracy must somehow reproduce GPS, satellite telephony, satellite TV and satellite based internet services.  Whilst making sure their magic is looks like it is from actual satellite and fooling all the world's engineers.

There are 2,271 satellites in orbit - every single one of them creating a service for a paying customer - somehow all of these services must be spoofed by The Conspiracy.  How is this done?  How many people does it take?

That's just the space industry.  The conspiracy must also incorporate all the world's astronomers, meteorologists, pilots, surveyors, cartographers, geodesists....to name but a few.
i believe like 90% of the people in the known world are liars just like you jimmy

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Rayzor

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Re: Conspiracies
« Reply #47 on: May 19, 2015, 06:48:02 AM »
i believe like 90% of the people in the known world are liars just like you jimmy

Wow, you really have some serious trust issues,  have you talked to anyone professionally about your problem?

Stop gilding the pickle, you demisexual aromantic homoflexible snowflake.

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Quail

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Re: Conspiracies
« Reply #48 on: May 19, 2015, 07:31:22 AM »
Why just NASA?  There are 38 space agencies - 14 with launch capability.  There is a $300 billion a year space industry.

The the private sector satellite industry in the US alone employs 250,000 people.  Worldwide it will number millions.  Who is paying their wages, and how?  How come of none of them worked out the entire thing is a conspiracy set up by unidentified people for unidentified reasons?

Then of course the conspiracy must somehow reproduce GPS, satellite telephony, satellite TV and satellite based internet services.  Whilst making sure their magic is looks like it is from actual satellite and fooling all the world's engineers.

There are 2,271 satellites in orbit - every single one of them creating a service for a paying customer - somehow all of these services must be spoofed by The Conspiracy.  How is this done?  How many people does it take?

That's just the space industry.  The conspiracy must also incorporate all the world's astronomers, meteorologists, pilots, surveyors, cartographers, geodesists....to name but a few.
i believe like 90% of the people in the known world are liars just like you jimmy

If you belive that, I am fine with that. If you insist it's true, then I am not.

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hoppy

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Re: Conspiracies
« Reply #49 on: May 19, 2015, 08:18:15 AM »
Mikey, contractors and engineers work on each specific part they are told to work on. They are given the specs of each part that they work on. They design it test it and deliver it. Why would they have to know they are making parts for a scam project, to them it is legitimate.
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Re: Conspiracies
« Reply #50 on: May 19, 2015, 08:32:09 AM »
Mikey, contractors and engineers work on each specific part they are told to work on.
And what experience have you of engineering and contracting?  I'm guessing it's approaching zero.

You are just parroting the same conspiracist line without any independent thought of your own.
Quote from: mikeman7918
a single photon can pass through two sluts

Quote from: Chicken Fried Clucker
if Donald Trump stuck his penis in me after trying on clothes I would have that date and time burned in my head.

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hoppy

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Re: Conspiracies
« Reply #51 on: May 19, 2015, 08:38:34 AM »
I am not an engineer as I am sure you suspect. My father and son are both developemental engineers, and I talk to them on many occasions.Their work is very compartmentalized.
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mikeman7918

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Re: Conspiracies
« Reply #52 on: May 19, 2015, 08:41:58 AM »
I still think that there would have to be well over 1,000,000 people in on the conspiracy in order to fake space travel...

Where on earth, do you get that ridiculous figure from?

There are dozens of space agencies in the world who work with hundreds of thousands of private contractors.  I seriously can't think of a way where there can be less then 1,000,000 conspirators in order to fake space travel.  Please read my previous posts where I explain it in more detail.
And everyone that works for/with any of these agencies for any reason needs to be involved in the conspiracy, why exactly?

If you were one of the thousands of people at Boeing who built the first stage of the Saturn V then you would have to be in on it.  There is even a company in Utah (which is where I live) which made (among other things) the solid rocket boosters for the Space Shuttle.  Anyone who worked on or around the solid rocket boosters would have to be in on the conspiracy.  A simple Goigle search would reveal some if the tens of thousands of private contractors who work for NASA to build rocket parts and stuff.
So, a guy who helps 25 other people build a heat shield or something of the like must be in on it, along with those 25 others?
I don't follow the logic.

They would have to be in on it if NASA just builds mock up rockets for show.  It is possible that they could build real rockets and crash them somewhere, but that would cost the same as regular soace travel.  If you didn't actually fly rockets then you would have to fake terabytes of data per year and you still would have to pay off the people who prepare the rocket for launch and provide ground support for the rocket in mission control.  NASA has no motivation to fake space travel because it's more expensive and nobody will make any money.
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th3rm0m3t3r0

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Re: Conspiracies
« Reply #53 on: May 19, 2015, 10:36:01 AM »
I still think that there would have to be well over 1,000,000 people in on the conspiracy in order to fake space travel...

Where on earth, do you get that ridiculous figure from?

There are dozens of space agencies in the world who work with hundreds of thousands of private contractors.  I seriously can't think of a way where there can be less then 1,000,000 conspirators in order to fake space travel.  Please read my previous posts where I explain it in more detail.
And everyone that works for/with any of these agencies for any reason needs to be involved in the conspiracy, why exactly?

If you were one of the thousands of people at Boeing who built the first stage of the Saturn V then you would have to be in on it.  There is even a company in Utah (which is where I live) which made (among other things) the solid rocket boosters for the Space Shuttle.  Anyone who worked on or around the solid rocket boosters would have to be in on the conspiracy.  A simple Goigle search would reveal some if the tens of thousands of private contractors who work for NASA to build rocket parts and stuff.
So, a guy who helps 25 other people build a heat shield or something of the like must be in on it, along with those 25 others?
I don't follow the logic.

They would have to be in on it if NASA just builds mock up rockets for show.  It is possible that they could build real rockets and crash them somewhere, but that would cost the same as regular soace travel.  If you didn't actually fly rockets then you would have to fake terabytes of data per year and you still would have to pay off the people who prepare the rocket for launch and provide ground support for the rocket in mission control.  NASA has no motivation to fake space travel because it's more expensive and nobody will make any money.
So you think that these people are all in one room, making all the parts. "Hey Ted, I've finished the 2nd fin!", "Great Bill! I'll have Sal throw it on."
And also that they're all there when the supposed rocket is allegedly launched?


I don't profess to be correct.
Quote from: sceptimatic
I am correct.

*

mikeman7918

  • 5431
  • Round Earther
Re: Conspiracies
« Reply #54 on: May 19, 2015, 10:47:47 AM »
I still think that there would have to be well over 1,000,000 people in on the conspiracy in order to fake space travel...

Where on earth, do you get that ridiculous figure from?

There are dozens of space agencies in the world who work with hundreds of thousands of private contractors.  I seriously can't think of a way where there can be less then 1,000,000 conspirators in order to fake space travel.  Please read my previous posts where I explain it in more detail.
And everyone that works for/with any of these agencies for any reason needs to be involved in the conspiracy, why exactly?

If you were one of the thousands of people at Boeing who built the first stage of the Saturn V then you would have to be in on it.  There is even a company in Utah (which is where I live) which made (among other things) the solid rocket boosters for the Space Shuttle.  Anyone who worked on or around the solid rocket boosters would have to be in on the conspiracy.  A simple Goigle search would reveal some if the tens of thousands of private contractors who work for NASA to build rocket parts and stuff.
So, a guy who helps 25 other people build a heat shield or something of the like must be in on it, along with those 25 others?
I don't follow the logic.

They would have to be in on it if NASA just builds mock up rockets for show.  It is possible that they could build real rockets and crash them somewhere, but that would cost the same as regular soace travel.  If you didn't actually fly rockets then you would have to fake terabytes of data per year and you still would have to pay off the people who prepare the rocket for launch and provide ground support for the rocket in mission control.  NASA has no motivation to fake space travel because it's more expensive and nobody will make any money.
So you think that these people are all in one room, making all the parts. "Hey Ted, I've finished the 2nd fin!", "Great Bill! I'll have Sal throw it on."
And also that they're all there when the supposed rocket is allegedly launched?

Space craft engineers do a lot of communicating with each other.  They are professional engineers so they know what they are doing.  They use the same engineering process used by air draft engineers and every time you ride in an airplane you bet your life that they did a good job.
I am having a video war with Jeranism.
See the thread about it here.

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th3rm0m3t3r0

  • At least 3 words, please.
  • 4696
  • It's SCIENCE!
Re: Conspiracies
« Reply #55 on: May 19, 2015, 10:49:35 AM »
I still think that there would have to be well over 1,000,000 people in on the conspiracy in order to fake space travel...

Where on earth, do you get that ridiculous figure from?

There are dozens of space agencies in the world who work with hundreds of thousands of private contractors.  I seriously can't think of a way where there can be less then 1,000,000 conspirators in order to fake space travel.  Please read my previous posts where I explain it in more detail.
And everyone that works for/with any of these agencies for any reason needs to be involved in the conspiracy, why exactly?

If you were one of the thousands of people at Boeing who built the first stage of the Saturn V then you would have to be in on it.  There is even a company in Utah (which is where I live) which made (among other things) the solid rocket boosters for the Space Shuttle.  Anyone who worked on or around the solid rocket boosters would have to be in on the conspiracy.  A simple Goigle search would reveal some if the tens of thousands of private contractors who work for NASA to build rocket parts and stuff.
So, a guy who helps 25 other people build a heat shield or something of the like must be in on it, along with those 25 others?
I don't follow the logic.

They would have to be in on it if NASA just builds mock up rockets for show.  It is possible that they could build real rockets and crash them somewhere, but that would cost the same as regular soace travel.  If you didn't actually fly rockets then you would have to fake terabytes of data per year and you still would have to pay off the people who prepare the rocket for launch and provide ground support for the rocket in mission control.  NASA has no motivation to fake space travel because it's more expensive and nobody will make any money.
So you think that these people are all in one room, making all the parts. "Hey Ted, I've finished the 2nd fin!", "Great Bill! I'll have Sal throw it on."
And also that they're all there when the supposed rocket is allegedly launched?

Space craft engineers do a lot of communicating with each other.  They are professional engineers so they know what they are doing.  They use the same engineering process used by air draft engineers and every time you ride in an airplane you bet your life that they did a good job.
You ignored that second part.


I don't profess to be correct.
Quote from: sceptimatic
I am correct.

*

legion

  • 1593
  • You are in my VR
Re: Conspiracies
« Reply #56 on: May 19, 2015, 12:13:19 PM »
I still think that there would have to be well over 1,000,000 people in on the conspiracy in order to fake space travel...

Where on earth, do you get that ridiculous figure from?

There are dozens of space agencies in the world who work with hundreds of thousands of private contractors.  I seriously can't think of a way where there can be less then 1,000,000 conspirators in order to fake space travel.  Please read my previous posts where I explain it in more detail.
And everyone that works for/with any of these agencies for any reason needs to be involved in the conspiracy, why exactly?

If you were one of the thousands of people at Boeing who built the first stage of the Saturn V then you would have to be in on it.  There is even a company in Utah (which is where I live) which made (among other things) the solid rocket boosters for the Space Shuttle.  Anyone who worked on or around the solid rocket boosters would have to be in on the conspiracy.  A simple Goigle search would reveal some if the tens of thousands of private contractors who work for NASA to build rocket parts and stuff.
So, a guy who helps 25 other people build a heat shield or something of the like must be in on it, along with those 25 others?
I don't follow the logic.

They would have to be in on it if NASA just builds mock up rockets for show.  It is possible that they could build real rockets and crash them somewhere, but that would cost the same as regular soace travel.  If you didn't actually fly rockets then you would have to fake terabytes of data per year and you still would have to pay off the people who prepare the rocket for launch and provide ground support for the rocket in mission control.  NASA has no motivation to fake space travel because it's more expensive and nobody will make any money.
So you think that these people are all in one room, making all the parts. "Hey Ted, I've finished the 2nd fin!", "Great Bill! I'll have Sal throw it on."
And also that they're all there when the supposed rocket is allegedly launched?

Space craft engineers do a lot of communicating with each other.  They are professional engineers so they know what they are doing.  They use the same engineering process used by air draft engineers and every time you ride in an airplane you bet your life that they did a good job.

You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. This is how it works:

1. A company wants a product manufacturing.

2. If the company can't manufacture some/all the parts themselves, a supplier(s) will be asked to quote to manufacture any number of assemblies or subassemblies or even the entire product. Engineering drawings will be provided listing all relevant information, such as; materials, dimensions, tolerances, inspection and/or test criteria.

3. The supplier will give a quote to complete the above work. Various accreditations will usually needed to be provided by the supplier as well.

4. If the customer is happy with the quote and all other relevant documentation, an order is placed.

So, it may be an idea for you to sit the rest of this thread out, seeing as you have no idea what you are talking about.
"Indoctrination [...] is often distinguished from education by the fact that the indoctrinated person is expected not to question or critically examine the doctrine they have learned".

Re: Conspiracies
« Reply #57 on: May 19, 2015, 09:41:50 PM »
Space craft engineers do a lot of communicating with each other.  They are professional engineers so they know what they are doing.  They use the same engineering process used by air draft engineers and every time you ride in an airplane you bet your life that they did a good job.

You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. This is how it works:

1. A company wants a product manufacturing.

2. If the company can't manufacture some/all the parts themselves, a supplier(s) will be asked to quote to manufacture any number of assemblies or subassemblies or even the entire product. Engineering drawings will be provided listing all relevant information, such as; materials, dimensions, tolerances, inspection and/or test criteria.

3. The supplier will give a quote to complete the above work. Various accreditations will usually needed to be provided by the supplier as well.

4. If the customer is happy with the quote and all other relevant documentation, an order is placed.

And after all the orders were placed, There Was Much Rejoicing. All the subassemblies were delivered on-time and in-spec, there were no anomalies, integration problems, or design changes, ever. And everyone lived Happily Ever After. The End.

You describe the ideal project fairy tale. That's the way it's supposed to work, and often it does - in a mature industry. This works and is well compartmentalized when everything is perfectly specified, no suppliers ever have to talk to others, and you never have to call in groups of specialists from different areas to solve a particular problem or to design and deliver a complex piece of gear on a short schedule, whose complex piece of gear has to interface correctly with some other group's complex piece of gear which was also designed and delivered on a short schedule.

Designing and building the Saturn V couldn't be any different than designing and building the next-generation refrigerator, washing machine, or *gasp* remote-control toaster (there will even be an app for toast the way you like it using your phone or tablet!) It's just engineering, after all. Design the systems, order the pieces, done.

Right.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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legion

  • 1593
  • You are in my VR
Re: Conspiracies
« Reply #58 on: May 19, 2015, 10:50:04 PM »
Space craft engineers do a lot of communicating with each other.  They are professional engineers so they know what they are doing.  They use the same engineering process used by air draft engineers and every time you ride in an airplane you bet your life that they did a good job.

You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. This is how it works:

1. A company wants a product manufacturing.

2. If the company can't manufacture some/all the parts themselves, a supplier(s) will be asked to quote to manufacture any number of assemblies or subassemblies or even the entire product. Engineering drawings will be provided listing all relevant information, such as; materials, dimensions, tolerances, inspection and/or test criteria.

3. The supplier will give a quote to complete the above work. Various accreditations will usually needed to be provided by the supplier as well.

4. If the customer is happy with the quote and all other relevant documentation, an order is placed.

And after all the orders were placed, There Was Much Rejoicing. All the subassemblies were delivered on-time and in-spec, there were no anomalies, integration problems, or design changes, ever. And everyone lived Happily Ever After. The End.

You describe the ideal project fairy tale. That's the way it's supposed to work, and often it does - in a mature industry. This works and is well compartmentalized when everything is perfectly specified, no suppliers ever have to talk to others, and you never have to call in groups of specialists from different areas to solve a particular problem or to design and deliver a complex piece of gear on a short schedule, whose complex piece of gear has to interface correctly with some other group's complex piece of gear which was also designed and delivered on a short schedule.

Designing and building the Saturn V couldn't be any different than designing and building the next-generation refrigerator, washing machine, or *gasp* remote-control toaster (there will even be an app for toast the way you like it using your phone or tablet!) It's just engineering, after all. Design the systems, order the pieces, done.

Right.

Why have you decided to travel back in time by fifty years? I thought that as of now, the space industry was mature. That's what my post was about.
"Indoctrination [...] is often distinguished from education by the fact that the indoctrinated person is expected not to question or critically examine the doctrine they have learned".

Re: Conspiracies
« Reply #59 on: May 20, 2015, 09:00:46 AM »
Space craft engineers do a lot of communicating with each other.  They are professional engineers so they know what they are doing.  They use the same engineering process used by air draft engineers and every time you ride in an airplane you bet your life that they did a good job.

You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. This is how it works:

1. A company wants a product manufacturing.

2. If the company can't manufacture some/all the parts themselves, a supplier(s) will be asked to quote to manufacture any number of assemblies or subassemblies or even the entire product. Engineering drawings will be provided listing all relevant information, such as; materials, dimensions, tolerances, inspection and/or test criteria.

3. The supplier will give a quote to complete the above work. Various accreditations will usually needed to be provided by the supplier as well.

4. If the customer is happy with the quote and all other relevant documentation, an order is placed.

And after all the orders were placed, There Was Much Rejoicing. All the subassemblies were delivered on-time and in-spec, there were no anomalies, integration problems, or design changes, ever. And everyone lived Happily Ever After. The End.

You describe the ideal project fairy tale. That's the way it's supposed to work, and often it does - in a mature industry. This works and is well compartmentalized when everything is perfectly specified, no suppliers ever have to talk to others, and you never have to call in groups of specialists from different areas to solve a particular problem or to design and deliver a complex piece of gear on a short schedule, whose complex piece of gear has to interface correctly with some other group's complex piece of gear which was also designed and delivered on a short schedule.

Designing and building the Saturn V couldn't be any different than designing and building the next-generation refrigerator, washing machine, or *gasp* remote-control toaster (there will even be an app for toast the way you like it using your phone or tablet!) It's just engineering, after all. Design the systems, order the pieces, done.

Right.

Why have you decided to travel back in time by fifty years? I thought that as of now, the space industry was mature. That's what my post was about.

Are you saying the Saturn V was real, and worked, but modern appliances rockets and spacecraft can be faked because nobody talks to anyone else?
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan