It's 2015 and you aren't even close to owning a Spaceship

Is this actually real?
Are there actually people dumb enough to stare proven facts in the face and reject them?
While still believing in the magical talking snake and such fairy tales?

I see we're going to be good friends. I use extremely dumb christians against their self to kill religion all together

Is this actually real?
Are there actually people dumb enough to stare proven facts in the face and reject them?
While still believing in the magical talking snake and such fairy tales?

I see we're going to be good friends. I use extremely dumb christians against their self to kill religion all together

Oh great. Another troll, or an alt. of an existing troll.

Not at all a 'troll'
Unless you feel trolled when confronted with facts and logic?

Quote from: JimmyTheCrab on May 16, 2015, 05:08:14 AM

This has to be one of the worst threads on the internet.

Only a troll would feel the need to post that.

Or someone who thinks this thread is just terrible.

Legion, you are just awful at debating.  It's like watching a drunk man on some greasy stairs: amusing at first, then just tragic.

Quote from: ZennerOne on May 16, 2015, 05:31:46 AM

Quote from: legion on May 16, 2015, 04:44:46 AM

I can't speak for Papa Legba, but I don't see why someone needs to be either a flat earther or a round earther. It's a textbook example of the false dilemma fallacy.

One has to be either a RE'r or a FE'r in the same way that one believes in gravity, or one doesn't.  You are misinterpreting the false dilemma fallacy.

A false dilemma, or more correctly a false dichotomy, is a logical fallacy which involves presenting only two opposing viewpoints in such a way that they seem to be the only two possibilities: that is, if one is true, the other must be false;  there is no third or additional option available here.  Dichotomy means two parts.

I suggest you re-read your post to detect your blatant contradiction. I've helpfully made it bold for you.

 I'm sure in the days when the earth was assumed to be flat, things still fell to the ground when dropped. Or do you challenge that?

Zenner One was not correlating gravity with the shape of the Earth. This would be a straw man.

Quote from: legion on May 16, 2015, 07:59:09 AM

Quote from: ZennerOne on May 16, 2015, 05:31:46 AM

Quote from: legion on May 16, 2015, 04:44:46 AM

I can't speak for Papa Legba, but I don't see why someone needs to be either a flat earther or a round earther. It's a textbook example of the false dilemma fallacy.

One has to be either a RE'r or a FE'r in the same way that one believes in gravity, or one doesn't.  You are misinterpreting the false dilemma fallacy.

A false dilemma, or more correctly a false dichotomy, is a logical fallacy which involves presenting only two opposing viewpoints in such a way that they seem to be the only two possibilities: that is, if one is true, the other must be false;  there is no third or additional option available here.  Dichotomy means two parts.

I suggest you re-read your post to detect your blatant contradiction. I've helpfully made it bold for you.

 I'm sure in the days when the earth was assumed to be flat, things still fell to the ground when dropped. Or do you challenge that?

Zenner One was not correlating gravity with the shape of the Earth. This would be a straw man.

I see you're having another one of your off days. You know, when your brain lets you down.


One has to be either a RE'r or a FE'r in the same way that one believes in gravity, or one doesn't.

That is the false dilemna fallacy. No strawman in sight. Except from you, of course.

Quote from: legion on May 16, 2015, 07:56:15 AM

Quote from: JimmyTheCrab on May 16, 2015, 05:08:14 AM

This has to be one of the worst threads on the internet.

Only a troll would feel the need to post that.

Or someone who thinks this thread is just terrible.

Legion, you are just awful at debating.  It's like watching a drunk man on some greasy stairs: amusing at first, then just tragic.

Your opinion of my debating skills is irrelevant. You are starting to remind me of inquisitive. At least he has/had a theme, though.

Worthy adversaries are getting harder to come by on this site. Maybe it's time for all the old ladies to bugger off?

I don't get the premise and point of this thread. It's not like official space agencies are a obvious scam just because the technology obsessed people of the 1960s made some eager and inaccurate predictions due to the technological jump caused by the Cold War.

Quote from: Rama Set on May 16, 2015, 10:50:53 AM

Quote from: legion on May 16, 2015, 07:59:09 AM

Quote from: ZennerOne on May 16, 2015, 05:31:46 AM

Quote from: legion on May 16, 2015, 04:44:46 AM

I can't speak for Papa Legba, but I don't see why someone needs to be either a flat earther or a round earther. It's a textbook example of the false dilemma fallacy.

One has to be either a RE'r or a FE'r in the same way that one believes in gravity, or one doesn't.  You are misinterpreting the false dilemma fallacy.

A false dilemma, or more correctly a false dichotomy, is a logical fallacy which involves presenting only two opposing viewpoints in such a way that they seem to be the only two possibilities: that is, if one is true, the other must be false;  there is no third or additional option available here.  Dichotomy means two parts.

I suggest you re-read your post to detect your blatant contradiction. I've helpfully made it bold for you.

 I'm sure in the days when the earth was assumed to be flat, things still fell to the ground when dropped. Or do you challenge that?

Zenner One was not correlating gravity with the shape of the Earth. This would be a straw man.

I see you're having another one of your off days. You know, when your brain lets you down.


One has to be either a RE'r or a FE'r in the same way that one believes in gravity, or one doesn't.

That is the false dilemna fallacy. No strawman in sight. Except from you, of course.

So you did not understand what I said, fascinating.

One has to be either a RE'r or a FE'r in the same way that one believes in gravity, or one doesn't.

There have been people who have come to the forum and said that they don't know if the Earth is round or flat, not to mention there are also toroidal earthers (Dinosaur Neil) and concave earthers (TheTruthSeeker).

Is this actually real?
Are there actually people dumb enough to stare proven facts in the face and reject them?
While still believing in the magical talking snake and such fairy tales?

I see we're going to be good friends. I use extremely dumb christians against their self to kill religion all together

Parrots can talk so what? And you can stick your willy in a woman's pee hole and a baby pops out! Tell me that isn't magical? That's the problem with you atheists is you act like everything just works for no reason whatsoever. You think you are so smart but have no idea what you are doing here. Give me a break.

Insulting Atheists.  That's not very Christlike of you iWitness, you are a Christian right?  I am a Christian too and yet I believe that the Earth is round and that science is real, none of that stuff contradicts Crhistian beliefs.  Fun fact: the Bible actually says that when Gid created the world all the land was in one place before he spread it out and science only recently discovered using satellites that tectonic plates move around and that all of Earth's land used to be all in one supercontinent.  Again, this was discovered with satellites which you believe don't exist, and if NASA is made up of satanists then why would they fake data which supports the Bible?

Here is a question that I have asked you many times without receiving any answers: the model you believe in can't explain time zones, does that mean that you believe that time zones don't exist?

Insulting Atheists.  That's not very Christlike of you iWitness, you are a Christian right?  I am a Christian too and yet I believe that the Earth is round and that science is real, none of that stuff contradicts Crhistian beliefs.  Fun fact: the Bible actually says that when Gid created the world all the land was in one place before he spread it out and science only recently discovered using satellites that tectonic plates move around and that all of Earth's land used to be all in one supercontinent.  Again, this was discovered with satellites which you believe don't exist, and if NASA is made up of satanists then why would they fake data which supports the Bible?

Here is a question that I have asked you many times without receiving any answers: the model you believe in can't explain time zones, does that mean that you believe that time zones don't exist?

Do you know Christ? Because the Jesus I know flipped tables in the Synagogues and called the Pharisees "Hypocrites" and "Children of Vipers".

“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs, which outwardly appear beautiful, but within are full of dead people's bones and all uncleanness.

Matthew 23:27

The Pharisees mentioned in the Bible were simply people like you who were very bashful.

I'm sure in the days when the earth was assumed to be flat, things still fell to the ground when dropped. Or do you challenge that?

Why is it that whenever a flat earther is backed into a corner without an answer, they invariably introduce a straw man to muddy the waters?  As per "or do you challenge that"?  This is simply putting a non-existent question into the mouth of somebody else, and then expecting them to try and address it, thereby hiding their own lack of a response to the original question.  Magicians call it "misdirection" and this guy LEGION is a master of the art I have noticed.

The Pharisees mentioned in the Bible were simply people like you who were very bashful.

Ok now you're just being ridiculous. It's obvious you're a troll/shill so I'm not wasting any more time with you. But I want to give you one last chance to prove you really are a Christian on the FES forums that believes the Earth is a Ball.

Can you provide your best verses that prove the earth is a ball that spins around the sun?

Afterwhich I will provide the verses that are the basis for my beliefs. If you can't provide any verses then I'm done with you.

Can you provide your best verses that prove the earth is a ball that spins around the sun?

This is a nonsensical request.  The Abrahamic bible is NOT acknowledged as any sort of scientific text by any scholar or scientist in the world. One cannot utilise biblical scripture as supporting "evidence" in any 21st-century debate involving scientific principles.  The bible is nothing more than a historical book written to reflect the times 2,500 years ago, long before confirmatory astrophysics were developed in any major way.

Which is why the bible repeatedly claims that the earth is flat.  To the camel-jockeys who wrote it, it looked flat, therefore it WAS flat.

Quote from: legion on May 16, 2015, 07:59:09 AM

I'm sure in the days when the earth was assumed to be flat, things still fell to the ground when dropped. Or do you challenge that?

Why is it that whenever a flat earther is backed into a corner without an answer, they invariably introduce a straw man to muddy the waters?  As per "or do you challenge that"?  This is simply putting a non-existent question into the mouth of somebody else, and then expecting them to try and address it, thereby hiding their own lack of a response to the original question.  Magicians call it "misdirection" and this guy LEGION is a master of the art I have noticed.

I'm legion. Not LEGION or legion. And I'm not a flat earther.

Quote from: mikeman7918 on May 17, 2015, 12:40:09 AM

The Pharisees mentioned in the Bible were simply people like you who were very bashful.

Ok now you're just being ridiculous. It's obvious you're a troll/shill so I'm not wasting any more time with you. But I want to give you one last chance to prove you really are a Christian on the FES forums that believes the Earth is a Ball.

Can you provide your best verses that prove the earth is a ball that spins around the sun?

Afterwhich I will provide the verses that are the basis for my beliefs. If you can't provide any verses then I'm done with you.

The Bible mentions many times that the Earth is a circle, but at the time ut was written there was no word to discribe a sphere.  A sphere does look circular from all directions, and if they were trying to communicate that the Eartg is a flat disk then they probobaly would have used the word "flat" to describe it.  Flat is definitely a word they had at the time because it's used 3 times in the Bible, and if the world was really flat then why wouldn't they discribe it as such?

Quote from: ZennerOne on May 17, 2015, 09:12:53 AM

Quote from: legion on May 16, 2015, 07:59:09 AM

I'm sure in the days when the earth was assumed to be flat, things still fell to the ground when dropped. Or do you challenge that?

Why is it that whenever a flat earther is backed into a corner without an answer, they invariably introduce a straw man to muddy the waters?  As per "or do you challenge that"?  This is simply putting a non-existent question into the mouth of somebody else, and then expecting them to try and address it, thereby hiding their own lack of a response to the original question.  Magicians call it "misdirection" and this guy LEGION is a master of the art I have noticed.

I'm legion. Not LEGION or legion. And I'm not a flat earther.

So, legion. What shape do you think the earth is? You must have an opinion, do you not?
It isn't unreasonable to assume that there are indeed sides in this debate.
You can either think that the earth is a. Round b. Flat c. Something else entirely
Because after all, the shape of the earth isn't subjective.

Quote from: iWitness on May 17, 2015, 10:01:22 AM

Quote from: mikeman7918 on May 17, 2015, 12:40:09 AM

The Pharisees mentioned in the Bible were simply people like you who were very bashful.

Ok now you're just being ridiculous. It's obvious you're a troll/shill so I'm not wasting any more time with you. But I want to give you one last chance to prove you really are a Christian on the FES forums that believes the Earth is a Ball.

Can you provide your best verses that prove the earth is a ball that spins around the sun?

Afterwhich I will provide the verses that are the basis for my beliefs. If you can't provide any verses then I'm done with you.

The Bible mentions many times that the Earth is a circle, but at the time ut was written there was no word to discribe a sphere.  A sphere does look circular from all directions, and if they were trying to communicate that the Eartg is a flat disk then they probobaly would have used the word "flat" to describe it.  Flat is definitely a word they had at the time because it's used 3 times in the Bible, and if the world was really flat then why wouldn't they discribe it as such?

C'mon mikey, even you know that circles are flat.

Quote from: mikeman7918 on May 17, 2015, 01:37:35 PM

Quote from: iWitness on May 17, 2015, 10:01:22 AM

Quote from: mikeman7918 on May 17, 2015, 12:40:09 AM

The Pharisees mentioned in the Bible were simply people like you who were very bashful.

Ok now you're just being ridiculous. It's obvious you're a troll/shill so I'm not wasting any more time with you. But I want to give you one last chance to prove you really are a Christian on the FES forums that believes the Earth is a Ball.

Can you provide your best verses that prove the earth is a ball that spins around the sun?

Afterwhich I will provide the verses that are the basis for my beliefs. If you can't provide any verses then I'm done with you.

The Bible mentions many times that the Earth is a circle, but at the time ut was written there was no word to discribe a sphere.  A sphere does look circular from all directions, and if they were trying to communicate that the Eartg is a flat disk then they probobaly would have used the word "flat" to describe it.  Flat is definitely a word they had at the time because it's used 3 times in the Bible, and if the world was really flat then why wouldn't they discribe it as such?

C'mon mikey, even you know that circles are flat.

But in the time the Bible was written there was no word for sphere and the shape of an orange was refereed to as a circle.  The shape of the Earth is described with the same word they would use to describe the shape of an orange.

Good evening & shut up.

For Lo! It is I; Papa Legba, returned in all my splendiferous eloquence, armed with a mighty Staff - made of Truth & the size of a House - that none but I can wield...

The subject of False Analogies has been much on my mind of late; why are NASA-cultists so fond of them (Australia lol)?

& why are they so blind to them?

Research was needed; so I dug deep into the guts of the Great Working that is NASA until I finally found the origin for the Cultists obstinacy.

& that is because the entirety of NASA's space-mythos is founded upon The Mother of all False Analogies...

Time to raise my Fearful Staff of Truth & Smite this Foul Deception to Smithereens!

NASA explain their model of how rockets work via the following Analogy: A man stands on a skateboard, holding a medicine ball.

The skateboard represents the rocket, the man represents the rocket motor, the ball represents the rocket exhaust.

When the man throws the ball, he travels backwards; this represents the rocket throwing the exhaust mass, thus producing an action-reaction pair according to Newton's 3rd.

However, this is FALSE.

In fact, it is the man's ARM, in throwing (i.e. imparting THRUST upon) the ball, that represents the exhaust; whilst the BALL represents an external mass such as the atmosphere.

Thus, we see the true placement of the action-reaction, Newton's 3rd, pairing is between Exhaust & External mass, NOT between Exhaust & Rocket motor; in fact the latter makes no sense whatsoever if considered logically.

Want more proof? Imagine the man & his ball suspended from a rope, so he throws the ball DOWNWARDS (after all, rockets travel vertically do they not?). When he does so, little effect will be seen, yet lower him so that his ARMS can touch the MASS of the ground & he will be able to THRUST himself up, producing LIFT.

Ergo: rockets require an outside mass in order to function, so cannot work in a vacuum.

Space travel is a physical impossibility.

You can howl, nitpick, cry, abuse, deride; but whatever you try, nothing will change that.

I told you before: I am not here to 'respond' or 'debate'; no, I am here to open doorways.

Enter; do not enter; the choice is yours.

Just remember the immortal words of the great Stanley Laurel: 'You can lead a horse to water, but a pencil must be led'.

What are YOU, space-cultists?

Horses?

Or Pencils?

Good evening & shut up.

Ha! Nice start.  tl&dr for the rest though - try to keep your trolling snappy.

Quote from: Papa Legba on May 18, 2015, 12:06:49 PM

Good evening & shut up.

Ha! Nice start.  tl&dr for the rest though - try to keep your trolling snappy.

Or more likely; reading more than a couple of lines hurts your feeble, indoctrinated brain.

Back under your bridge you silly little troll.

Imitation is, as ever, the sincerest form of flattery, Mr Butt-hurt Crab.

Care to address my comprehensive destruction of NASA's blatantly mendacious analogy?

Nah, didn't think so...

Definitely a Horse.

Newton's first law is also worth considering for anyone believing in all the space adventure nonsense:

"An object that is at rest will stay at rest unless an external force acts upon it." and,
"An object that is in motion will not change its velocity unless an external force acts upon it."

So you have the problem of what force gives the initial and ongoing (whilst in motion) momentum (which must be external). There is lots of comedy as "educational" and "scientific" sites try to explain how that applies to rockets:

http://www.livescience.com/46561-newton-third-law.html:

How, then, can a rocket move through space if there is nothing for it to push against? When the fuel is ignited in the rocket nozzle, the gas expands rapidly in all directions. Some of it goes backwards and has no effect on the rocket; however, some if it goes forward and crashes into the back of the rocket exerting a force that causes the rocket to accelerate in the forward direction. This is why Newton’s Third Law is considered to be the fundamental principle of rocket science.

That's right readers. The rocket pushes itself along and breaks Newton's first law everytime they go on a space adventure!

Care to address my comprehensive destruction of NASA's blatantly mendacious analogy?

Why bother when you already said:

I told you before: I am not here to 'respond' or 'debate';

 

Care to address my comprehensive destruction of NASA's blatantly mendacious analogy?

I have no knowledge of, or experience of space-travel & thus my word on the subject is worthless.

Markjo27000: LOL! Nice try.

Knew YOU couldn't do it.

Cos the truth of what I say is obvious to a child.

Nitpicking, abuse, derision, etc... Keep it up.

NASA's GREAT LIE is laid bare for all to see who wish to see; that you would not be one of them is no surprise.

None at all.

Bijane: LOL! I just said that rockets CANNOT TRAVEL TO SPACE; therefore no experience of 'space-travel' is necessary to speak of or understand them.

You've brought back the Comedy Gold!!!!

Aaaaaw...

Now try harder.

Horse...