Pre NASA

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Re: Pre NASA
« Reply #30 on: May 18, 2009, 11:27:22 AM »
So if NASA doesn't do the conspiring (see above) who does?!

NASA is conspiring. They're just not conspiring over the shape of the earth. They're conspiring to create the illusion of America's dominance over space.

LOL Do all your posts make this much sense?


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Tom Bishop

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Re: Pre NASA
« Reply #31 on: May 18, 2009, 04:40:26 PM »
Let me get this right:  You are saying that NASA think the earth is round when in fact it is flat.  NASA has no idea why it cannot get into space despite countless attempts, using the most advanced rockets and ground control equipment.

Therefore there is no "Flat Earth Conspiracy", just a "Space Flight Conspiracy".

Do you know even more than the FES?

NASA may have had a genuine drive to get to space and establish America's military dominance in its early life. It probably started off with a genuine intention of getting into space. But after countless mishaps like the Apollo 1 disaster, technical difficulties where NASA could not even maintain radio communication between two rooms, and being forced to assassinate former employees from speaking out, NASA turned its back on progress and turned into a pure movie studio. Giant hyper-realistic "moon balls" were made, moonscapes were constructed, and modified Nazi V2 rockets were launched for the benefit of politicians and the public.

NASA doesn't care why they can't get into space, the shape of the earth, or whether the moon is made up of Igneous rock. NASA just cares about money.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2009, 06:45:58 PM by Tom Bishop »

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markjo

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Re: Pre NASA
« Reply #32 on: May 18, 2009, 05:40:28 PM »
Let me get this right:  You are saying that NASA think the earth is round when in fact it is flat.  NASA has no idea why it cannot get into space despite countless attempts, using the most advanced rockets and ground control equipment.

Therefore there is no "Flat Earth Conspiracy", just a "Space Flight Conspiracy".

Do you know even more than the FES?

NASA may have had a genuine drive to get to space and establish America's military dominance in its early life. It probably started off with a genuine intention of getting into space. But after countless mishaps like the Apollo 1 disaster, technical difficulties where NASA could not even communicate between two rooms, and being forced to assassinate former employees from speaking out, NASA turned its back on progress and turned into a pure movie studio. Giant hyper-realistic "moon balls" were made, moonscapes were constructed, and modified Nazi V-3 rockets were launched for the benefit of politicians and the public.

NASA doesn't care why they can't get into space, the shape of the earth, or whether the moon is made up of Igneous rock. NASA just cares about money.

Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
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Moon squirter

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Re: Pre NASA
« Reply #33 on: May 19, 2009, 02:05:46 AM »
NASA doesn't care why they can't get into space

But as you previously touched on, getting into space would facilitate the development of ICBMs, in addition to spy satellites.  I think the US Government would care an awful lot and would want to find out why this was not possible, at any cost.  So would the Kremlin.

It gets worse: The alternative is that both the US and Russia knew that (for unknown reasons) neither could deliver ICBMs, there is no MAD and the Cold War was just played out according to a script.  In short, the White House and the Kremlin were working in partnership for no apparent reason.
I haven't performed it and I've never claimed to. I've have trouble being in two places at the same time.

Re: Pre NASA
« Reply #34 on: May 19, 2009, 08:35:29 PM »
lol im so srry just this is so funny to read conspiracy this conspicary that :O SOMEONE ATE MEH BACON, ITS A CONSPIRACY like lol not everything is a conspiracy why cant you just accept that the earth is round i mean it even makes life easier for you to understand it is because not almost every person will be going down on you and you know you can go to space wouldnt that be fun and you can stop being scared of going over the edge of the earth

Re: Pre NASA
« Reply #35 on: May 19, 2009, 10:46:02 PM »
It's my position that NASA truly and honestly believes that the earth is a globe, which is why they chose to depict it as such in their Apollo images. But since neither space travel or earth orbit is possible, and since the highest NASA can go is to the edge of the atmosphere where they are looking down at the distant curved edges of the sun's circular area of light, they are in no position to tell us what form the earth takes.

The "conspiracy" revolves around faking space travel for political and military purposes. After the Manhattan Project in the 1940's the US needed some kind of unstoppable vehicle to facilitate the transport of its weapons of mass destruction. Thus NASA was created in the 50's for the sole and only purpose of convincing the world that the US could drop an ICBM on foreign cities at the drop of a hat.

You're fooling yourself if you believe that NASA was created for some kind of humanitarian or scientific purpose.

This is probably the stupidest thing I have ever read during my brief existence in this universe.

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spanner34.5

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Re: Pre NASA
« Reply #36 on: May 20, 2009, 01:57:07 AM »

This is probably the stupidest thing I have ever read during my brief existence in this universe.
Try this site http://theroundearthsociety.net/..... an abundance of stupidity.
My I.Q. is 85. Or was it 58?

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svenanders

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Re: Pre NASA
« Reply #37 on: May 20, 2009, 02:32:12 AM »

This is probably the stupidest thing I have ever read during my brief existence in this universe.
Try this site http://theroundearthsociety.net/..... an abundance of stupidity.

You mean lack of stupidity. This site is the trolling site #1 on the internets!
The Round Earth Society is for serious discussions!

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Pre NASA
« Reply #38 on: May 20, 2009, 06:25:35 AM »
But as you previously touched on, getting into space would facilitate the development of ICBMs, in addition to spy satellites.  I think the US Government would care an awful lot and would want to find out why this was not possible, at any cost.  So would the Kremlin.

It gets worse: The alternative is that both the US and Russia knew that (for unknown reasons) neither could deliver ICBMs, there is no MAD and the Cold War was just played out according to a script.  In short, the White House and the Kremlin were working in partnership for no apparent reason.

Sure, there was MAD, it just didn't revolve around ICBM's. The Russians developed all of those suitcase nukes, remember? Bombers were also outfitted with nukes. The only downside to those technologies were that planes could be shot down and the suitcase nukes weren't very powerful (less than 1kt).

It was important to create the illusion of ICBM's because, as they knew from their encounter with the Nazi's V2 rockets, ballistic missiles were impossible to shoot down or prevent and could contain significant payload. Whoever created the strongest illusion of ICBM's made the most powerful allies. ICBM's were the alpha and omega of super weapons.

The space race was pure military propaganda and and deception. Props were made, tests were staged, and missiles were paraded, all to fabricate the illusion of superiority. See this article for instance:

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4158/is_19981118/ai_n14192997

Moscow paraded dummy missiles

MANY OF the huge strategic missiles displayed in Red Square parades during the Soviet era were only dummies, but they scared the West into an expensive response, a Russian magazine reported yesterday.

One such fake, GR-1, an acronym for Global Missile, showed during a parade in 1965, prompted the United States to build an anti- missile defence system worth billions of dollars, said the weekly Vlast (Power). In fact, the Soviets had abandoned the GR-1 project long before the parade.

Another two mobile ballistic missiles shown in the same parade were also fakes, their test launches having been a failure, the magazine said. "Foreign military attaches were scared to death, triggering panic in Nato headquarters," it said. "A huge international uproar followed, and only those who prepared this demonstration knew they were dummies." One of the authors of the Vlast report worked as a missile engineer and said he had worked on a support system for one of the fake missiles to prevent it from bouncing on the stone-paved Red Square in Moscow. The magazine said the Soviet leader Nikita Krushchev first bluffed the West with the legend of powerful Russian missiles, saying the Soviet Union was making them "like sausage". "Such comparison sounded ambiguous for the Soviet people, because the sausage was in deficit, but it duly impressed foreigners," it said. At the time of Krushchev's comment, the Soviets had only four intercontinental ballistic missiles on duty, while the United States had 60. "The myth about the Soviet missile superiority was convenient for both the Soviet leadership and the American military industrial complex, which was getting huge contracts," the magazine said.


Another article on the subject:

http://www.cdi.org/russia/may1499.html#6

There's also a book about their dummy programs:

 

« Last Edit: May 20, 2009, 06:33:34 AM by Tom Bishop »

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markjo

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Re: Pre NASA
« Reply #39 on: May 20, 2009, 06:43:42 AM »
Sure, the Soviets may have had several dummy or failed missiles that they bluffed the US into believing were real.  But, then again, they had enough genuinely real missiles to worry about too.  As usual Tom, I'm not sure that I see your point, especially when you also claim that the whole cold war was fake and the US and USSR were really good buddies all along.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Pre NASA
« Reply #40 on: May 20, 2009, 07:40:19 AM »
Sure, the Soviets may have had several dummy or failed missiles that they bluffed the US into believing were real.  But, then again, they had enough genuinely real missiles to worry about too.  As usual Tom, I'm not sure that I see your point, especially when you also claim that the whole cold war was fake and the US and USSR were really good buddies all along.

The missiles the Russian did have weren't ICBM's which could get into earth orbit, but more like V2's which could do no more than kiss the edge of space. Remember the Cuban Missile Crisis? The Soviets, limited by the V2 technology they stole, needed to get within 200 miles of the US to have a hope of hitting it.

If they really had orbital technology they wouldn't need to get that close.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2009, 08:05:28 AM by Tom Bishop »

Re: Pre NASA
« Reply #41 on: May 20, 2009, 07:53:57 AM »
heres an interesting concept.

A pizza is flat. A pizza is round....  :P

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markjo

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Re: Pre NASA
« Reply #42 on: May 20, 2009, 08:00:28 AM »
Sure, the Soviets may have had several dummy or failed missiles that they bluffed the US into believing were real.  But, then again, they had enough genuinely real missiles to worry about too.  As usual Tom, I'm not sure that I see your point, especially when you also claim that the whole cold war was fake and the US and USSR were really good buddies all along.

The missiles the Russian did have weren't ICBM's which could get into earth orbit, but more like modified V2's which could do no more than kiss the edge of space. Remember the Cuban Missile Crisis? The Soviets, limited by V2 technology, needed to get within 200 miles of the US to have a hope of hitting it.

I keep telling you that ICBMS do not need to achieve earth orbit in order to travel thousands of miles.  But, if you want to insist, all ballistic missiles (even the V2) can be considered to have orbital paths where most of the orbit is within the earth itself.

BTW, the missiles in Cuba were medium and intermediate range missiles with a ranges of around 1000-4000 km or so which put about 2/3 of the US in range.
Quote from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_Missile_Crisis#U-2_flights
The first consignment of SS-3 MRBMs (medium range ballistic missiles) arrived on the night of September 8, followed by a second on September 16. The Soviets were building nine sites ? six for SS-4s and three for SS-5s with a 4,000 kilometer-range (2,400 statute miles).
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Pre NASA
« Reply #43 on: May 20, 2009, 08:13:50 AM »
Quote
I keep telling you that ICBMS do not need to achieve earth orbit in order to travel thousands of miles.  But, if you want to insist, all ballistic missiles (even the V2) can be considered to have orbital paths where most of the orbit is within the earth itself.

BTW, the missiles in Cuba were medium and intermediate range missiles with a ranges of around 1000-4000 km or so which put about 2/3 of the US in range.
Quote from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_Missile_Crisis#U-2_flights
The first consignment of SS-3 MRBMs (medium range ballistic missiles) arrived on the night of September 8, followed by a second on September 16. The Soviets were building nine sites ? six for SS-4s and three for SS-5s with a 4,000 kilometer-range (2,400 statute miles).

Hitler's V2's were powerful enough to get to the edge of space and their maximum range was 200 miles. I'd trust Hitler over the American or Soviet propaganda machines who were constantly exchanging technology claims and misinformation any day of the week.

If the Russians really did have orbital capabilities they wouldn't have needed to set up missile bases in Cuba. The fact that they needed to set up a missile base about 100 miles from the US several years after they had already claimed to achieve earth orbit is absolute proof that they really could not achieve orbit at all.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2009, 08:23:23 AM by Tom Bishop »

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markjo

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Re: Pre NASA
« Reply #44 on: May 20, 2009, 08:24:30 AM »
Hitler's V2's were powerful enough to get to the edge of space and their maximum range was 200 miles. I'd trust Hitler over American or Soviet propaganda machines any day of the week.

If the Russians really did have orbital capabilities they wouldn't have needed to set up missile bases in Cuba at all. The fact that they needed to set up a missile base about 100 miles from the US after they had already claimed to achieve earth orbit, is absolute proof that they really could not achieve orbit at all.

Tom, are you saying that the maximum range of any ballistic missile is 200 miles?  ::)  Just because you can lob a nuke half way across the earth, that doesn't mean that you can reliably hit your target (especially in the early '60s).  Here's a hint for you, shorter range missiles are more accurate and give your enemy less time to react (10 minutes or less from Cuba as opposed to 30-40 minutes from Russia).  Can you say tactical advantage?  I knew that you could.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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Moon squirter

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Re: Pre NASA
« Reply #45 on: May 20, 2009, 02:36:15 PM »
The fact that they needed to set up a missile base about 100 miles from the US several years after they had already claimed to achieve earth orbit is absolute proof that they really could not achieve orbit at all.

It's not "proof" by a long way I'm afraid.  The devil's in the detail.

The soviets were deploying "tactical" NWs, with the purpose of dissuading the US from invading Cuba (not attacking Russia and thereby triggering a full exchange).  Cuba was an extremely important communist outpost and consequently a major headache to the US.  However, Russia (as much as it liked Cuba) knew it was not worth going for the MAD "strategic" defence option and risking everything for small country with no economic or military value.  That really would have been mad.

I haven't performed it and I've never claimed to. I've have trouble being in two places at the same time.

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Pre NASA
« Reply #46 on: May 20, 2009, 03:36:57 PM »
The fact that they needed to set up a missile base about 100 miles from the US several years after they had already claimed to achieve earth orbit is absolute proof that they really could not achieve orbit at all.

It's not "proof" by a long way I'm afraid.  The devil's in the detail.

The soviets were deploying "tactical" NWs, with the purpose of dissuading the US from invading Cuba (not attacking Russia and thereby triggering a full exchange).  Cuba was an extremely important communist outpost and consequently a major headache to the US.  However, Russia (as much as it liked Cuba) knew it was not worth going for the MAD "strategic" defence option and risking everything for small country with no economic or military value.  That really would have been mad.

If the soviets really did have the capability of getting into earth orbit as they had been claiming for a number of years, they wouldn't need to set up "tactical" missile bases near the US.

Re: Pre NASA
« Reply #47 on: May 20, 2009, 05:49:52 PM »
The fact that they needed to set up a missile base about 100 miles from the US several years after they had already claimed to achieve earth orbit is absolute proof that they really could not achieve orbit at all.

It's not "proof" by a long way I'm afraid.  The devil's in the detail.

The soviets were deploying "tactical" NWs, with the purpose of dissuading the US from invading Cuba (not attacking Russia and thereby triggering a full exchange).  Cuba was an extremely important communist outpost and consequently a major headache to the US.  However, Russia (as much as it liked Cuba) knew it was not worth going for the MAD "strategic" defence option and risking everything for small country with no economic or military value.  That really would have been mad.

If the soviets really did have the capability of getting into earth orbit as they had been claiming for a number of years, they wouldn't need to set up "tactical" missile bases near the US.
Getting into Earth's orbit is one thing. The ability to successfully launch nuclear weapons from space (or launching a device into space capable of launching nuclear weapons) is completely different. Sputnik was the size of a basketball.

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markjo

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Re: Pre NASA
« Reply #48 on: May 20, 2009, 07:14:30 PM »
If the soviets really did have the capability of getting into earth orbit as they had been claiming for a number of years, they wouldn't need to set up "tactical" missile bases near the US.

Getting a nuke into orbit is one thing.  Getting it to land on target is something else.  Again, there's also the annoying little problem of giving your enemy enough time to launch their missiles while your's are still in 'orbit'.  Oh, and ICBMs predate space flight by a few months.

Quote from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ICBM#Cold_War
In 1953, the USSR initiated, under the direction of the reactive propulsion engineer Sergey Korolyov, a program to develop an ICBM. Korolyov had constructed the R-1, a copy of the V-2 based on some captured materials, but later developed his own distinct design. This rocket, the R-7, was successfully tested in August 1957 becoming the world's first ICBM and, on October 4, 1957, placed the first artificial satellite in space, Sputnik.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2009, 07:18:12 PM by markjo »
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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cristiano

Re: Pre NASA
« Reply #49 on: May 20, 2009, 08:45:37 PM »
Hello there.Nice to meet you.It will be really interesting if we get the chance to work with NASA.It is like dream come true.
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Moon squirter

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Re: Pre NASA
« Reply #50 on: May 21, 2009, 12:42:36 AM »
The fact that they needed to set up a missile base about 100 miles from the US several years after they had already claimed to achieve earth orbit is absolute proof that they really could not achieve orbit at all.

It's not "proof" by a long way I'm afraid.  The devil's in the detail.

The soviets were deploying "tactical" NWs, with the purpose of dissuading the US from invading Cuba (not attacking Russia and thereby triggering a full exchange).  Cuba was an extremely important communist outpost and consequently a major headache to the US.  However, Russia (as much as it liked Cuba) knew it was not worth going for the MAD "strategic" defence option and risking everything for small country with no economic or military value.  That really would have been mad.

If the soviets really did have the capability of getting into earth orbit as they had been claiming for a number of years, they wouldn't need to set up "tactical" missile bases near the US.

You really haven't understood a word.  The Russian missiles were set up to be used in a specific scenario that did not directly involving Russia (the likely invasion of Cuba by the US).  Launching an all-out strategic attack on US cities would have meant the end of modern civilisation for both sides.  In Russian eyes, a limited Nuclear response would be more sensible.

However, Kennedy made it clear that any individual Nuclear attack would trigger a full response by the US.
  (by your standards, Tom, proof that the US could get into space?)


I haven't performed it and I've never claimed to. I've have trouble being in two places at the same time.

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Pre NASA
« Reply #51 on: May 21, 2009, 04:48:18 AM »
Quote
You really haven't understood a word.  The Russian missiles were set up to be used in a specific scenario that did not directly involving Russia (the likely invasion of Cuba by the US).  Launching an all-out strategic attack on US cities would have meant the end of modern civilisation for both sides.  In Russian eyes, a limited Nuclear response would be more sensible.

If Russia was interested solely in the preventing an invasion of Cuba they would have, you know, reinforced it with traditional munitions and traditional military bases, not build a nuclear silo. Putting a nuclear silo 100 miles off the coast of a country doesn't stop an invasion. It just increases the chance of an invasion. It's obvious what Russia's intentions were.

Getting a nuke into orbit is one thing.  Getting it to land on target is something else.

Well it's a good thing they were already claiming to be able to do that, too.

Quote
Oh, and ICBMs predate space flight by a few months.

Just goes to show that the space race was for neither humanitarian or for scientific purposes as was constantly claimed by both sides.

It's ridiculous beyond belief that you guys will sit here saying "yes well Russia lied about all of those fake ICBM's, but everything else they said and did during the space race was pure fact." The extent of globularist brainwashing is truly frightening.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2009, 04:50:06 AM by Tom Bishop »

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markjo

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Re: Pre NASA
« Reply #52 on: May 21, 2009, 06:20:16 AM »
Quote
Oh, and ICBMs predate space flight by a few months.

Just goes to show that the space race was for neither humanitarian or for scientific purposes as was constantly claimed by both sides.

It's ridiculous beyond belief that you guys will sit here saying "yes well Russia lied about all of those fake ICBM's, but everything else they said and did during the space race was pure fact." The extent of globularist brainwashing is truly frightening.

Actually Tom, you are the one saying that "Russia lied about all of those fake ICBMs".  I agreed that they may have lied about some fake ICBMs.  Big difference.  To me, your trolling abilities are truly frightening.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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Moon squirter

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Re: Pre NASA
« Reply #53 on: May 21, 2009, 06:45:17 AM »
Quote
You really haven't understood a word.  The Russian missiles were set up to be used in a specific scenario that did not directly involving Russia (the likely invasion of Cuba by the US).  Launching an all-out strategic attack on US cities would have meant the end of modern civilisation for both sides.  In Russian eyes, a limited Nuclear response would be more sensible.

Putting a nuclear silo 100 miles off the coast of a country doesn't stop an invasion. It just increases the chance of an invasion. It's obvious what Russia's intentions were...

Installing a local nuclear deterrent does "deter"  invasion;  The clue's in the word "deterrent".  Take Israel for instance. And India. And Pakistan.  And (in the future) North Korea and Iran.  According to your Logic, they're saying to their neighbours "Hi, we've got Nukes, please come in".

You've lost this one I'm afraid, Tom.  Tactical nukes don't prove anything.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2009, 07:03:49 AM by Moon squirter »
I haven't performed it and I've never claimed to. I've have trouble being in two places at the same time.