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Solar Neutrinos

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markjo

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Re: Solar Neutrinos
« Reply #180 on: February 25, 2009, 08:04:33 PM »
Quote from: Johannes Kepler on February 25, 2009, 07:58:35 PM
Thats a load of ****....

but isn't anyone supposed to be able to participate in the scientific community? You certainly wouldn't be afraid of posting documentation if you know it worked right?

This experiment is not repeatable because it there is no procedure to build the instrumentation. This is not science.

???
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Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.
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C-Ray

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Re: Solar Neutrinos
« Reply #181 on: February 25, 2009, 08:11:33 PM »
Are you reading the thread?  I know I have made two posts about current experiments under way.  One of the links I provided links to at least 4 other websites using the same techniques.  The information has been given to you.  Start researching, start building.
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The Earth is Round.
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Johannes

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Re: Solar Neutrinos
« Reply #182 on: February 25, 2009, 08:30:36 PM »
Quote from: C-Ray on February 25, 2009, 08:11:33 PM
Are you reading the thread?  I know I have made two posts about current experiments under way.  One of the links I provided links to at least 4 other websites using the same techniques.  The information has been given to you.  Start researching, start building.
Thats not detailed enough.
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hi

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Re: Solar Neutrinos
« Reply #183 on: February 25, 2009, 08:34:29 PM »
Quote from: Johannes Kepler on February 25, 2009, 08:30:36 PM
Quote from: C-Ray on February 25, 2009, 08:11:33 PM
Are you reading the thread?  I know I have made two posts about current experiments under way.  One of the links I provided links to at least 4 other websites using the same techniques.  The information has been given to you.  Start researching, start building.
Thats not detailed enough.
What do you want?
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Johannes

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Re: Solar Neutrinos
« Reply #184 on: February 25, 2009, 08:38:07 PM »
Quote from: hi on February 25, 2009, 08:34:29 PM
Quote from: Johannes Kepler on February 25, 2009, 08:30:36 PM
Quote from: C-Ray on February 25, 2009, 08:11:33 PM
Are you reading the thread?  I know I have made two posts about current experiments under way.  One of the links I provided links to at least 4 other websites using the same techniques.  The information has been given to you.  Start researching, start building.
Thats not detailed enough.
What do you want?
source code, exact schematics, designs etc.
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C-Ray

  • 706
Re: Solar Neutrinos
« Reply #185 on: February 25, 2009, 08:42:55 PM »
Quote from: Johannes Kepler on February 25, 2009, 08:38:07 PM
Quote from: hi on February 25, 2009, 08:34:29 PM
Quote from: Johannes Kepler on February 25, 2009, 08:30:36 PM
Quote from: C-Ray on February 25, 2009, 08:11:33 PM
Are you reading the thread?  I know I have made two posts about current experiments under way.  One of the links I provided links to at least 4 other websites using the same techniques.  The information has been given to you.  Start researching, start building.
Thats not detailed enough.
What do you want?
source code, exact schematics, designs etc.

What are you gonna do with those?  I'm curious to know what it exactly you do.  Are you in school studying or are you out of school and actually have a career?  If you have a career, what is it?  If you are in school, what are you studying?
« Last Edit: February 25, 2009, 08:44:52 PM by C-Ray »
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The Earth is Round.
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Johannes

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Re: Solar Neutrinos
« Reply #186 on: February 25, 2009, 08:59:56 PM »
If you want to discuss who I am please make a new topic.
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bowler

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Re: Solar Neutrinos
« Reply #187 on: February 26, 2009, 01:23:42 AM »
Most of the software is done with large software packages these days so each experiments doesn't have to reinvent the wheel.
Simulation is normally done with GEANT - http://geant4.cern.ch
Data analysis with ROOT - http://root.cern.ch
Both these packages are open source and written and c++.

Often each analysis is implemented more than once is different ways to cross check for difference caused by different methodologies. Though a solid book on data analysis in high energy physics will take you through the steps used in a generic analysis.
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markjo

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Re: Solar Neutrinos
« Reply #188 on: February 26, 2009, 06:45:48 AM »
Quote from: Johannes Kepler on February 25, 2009, 08:59:56 PM
If you want to discuss who I am please make a new topic.

So your qualifications to build and run a DIY neutrino detector are not relevant to the discussion?  ???
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Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.
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C-Ray

  • 706
Re: Solar Neutrinos
« Reply #189 on: February 26, 2009, 07:03:00 AM »
Quote from: markjo on February 26, 2009, 06:45:48 AM
Quote from: Johannes Kepler on February 25, 2009, 08:59:56 PM
If you want to discuss who I am please make a new topic.

So your qualifications to build and run a DIY neutrino detector are not relevant to the discussion?  ???

My thoughts exactly.
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The Earth is Round.
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markjo

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Re: Solar Neutrinos
« Reply #190 on: February 26, 2009, 10:10:36 AM »
Quote from: C-Ray on February 26, 2009, 07:03:00 AM
Quote from: markjo on February 26, 2009, 06:45:48 AM
Quote from: Johannes Kepler on February 25, 2009, 08:59:56 PM
If you want to discuss who I am please make a new topic.

So your qualifications to build and run a DIY neutrino detector are not relevant to the discussion?  ???

My thoughts exactly.

Not to mention being able to finance such a project.  And no, Johannes, I will not chip in so don't even ask.
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Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.
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Johannes

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Re: Solar Neutrinos
« Reply #191 on: February 26, 2009, 01:32:38 PM »
Quote from: bowler on February 26, 2009, 01:23:42 AM
Most of the software is done with large software packages these days so each experiments doesn't have to reinvent the wheel.
Simulation is normally done with GEANT - http://geant4.cern.ch
Data analysis with ROOT - http://root.cern.ch
Both these packages are open source and written and c++.

Often each analysis is implemented more than once is different ways to cross check for difference caused by different methodologies. Though a solid book on data analysis in high energy physics will take you through the steps used in a generic analysis.
GEANT is a toolkit for the simulation of high energy physics
ROOT is a framework.

Neither of these are specifically what is being used in the code of neutrino detectors. More proof please.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2009, 08:10:51 PM by Johannes Kepler »
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bowler

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Re: Solar Neutrinos
« Reply #192 on: February 27, 2009, 02:00:13 AM »
Well you read the tagline well done. If you don't know ROOT inside out then anything else is going to be incomprehensible as analyses are build on ROOT.
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NTheGreat

  • 1019
Re: Solar Neutrinos
« Reply #193 on: February 27, 2009, 06:16:18 AM »
The code use to translate what is recived from the detectors into something that can be analysed is probably very bespoke and varies from detector to detector. If you want to see it, you'll have to contact the people who run the detector and ask them about it.
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Johannes

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Re: Solar Neutrinos
« Reply #194 on: February 27, 2009, 09:25:15 AM »
Quote from: bowler on February 27, 2009, 02:00:13 AM
Well you read the tagline well done. If you don't know ROOT inside out then anything else is going to be incomprehensible as analyses are build on ROOT.
You are obviously not a C++ programmer.
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bowler

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Re: Solar Neutrinos
« Reply #195 on: February 27, 2009, 09:28:26 AM »
I wouldn't say im a programmer though I spend a lot of time time writing scientific c++ code. Most of it using ROOT.
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markjo

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Re: Solar Neutrinos
« Reply #196 on: February 27, 2009, 12:14:28 PM »
Quote from: Johannes Kepler on February 27, 2009, 09:25:15 AM
Quote from: bowler on February 27, 2009, 02:00:13 AM
Well you read the tagline well done. If you don't know ROOT inside out then anything else is going to be incomprehensible as analyses are build on ROOT.
You are obviously not a C++ programmer.
Knowing a language is not the same as understanding the problem that you are trying to solve with that language.  Just because you know how to swing a hammer doesn't mean that you know how to build a house.
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Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.
*

Johannes

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Re: Solar Neutrinos
« Reply #197 on: February 27, 2009, 03:29:40 PM »
Quote from: markjo on February 27, 2009, 12:14:28 PM
Quote from: Johannes Kepler on February 27, 2009, 09:25:15 AM
Quote from: bowler on February 27, 2009, 02:00:13 AM
Well you read the tagline well done. If you don't know ROOT inside out then anything else is going to be incomprehensible as analyses are build on ROOT.
You are obviously not a C++ programmer.
Knowing a language is not the same as understanding the problem that you are trying to solve with that language.  Just because you know how to swing a hammer doesn't mean that you know how to build a house.
If you know how to program you can understand what the code is doing. Especially in C++ where lots of things are inherited and you can get to the "core" of the program pretty quickly by looking at the classes. Not to mention I have significant physics background. Which cannot hurt.
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ghazwozza

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Re: Solar Neutrinos
« Reply #198 on: February 27, 2009, 04:38:54 PM »
I've forgotten what the point of this argument was. Did JK not trust neutrino observatory results? Did he actually claim that thousands of scientists, each group with a different experiment, were all being fooled by some unknown process into wrong data that just happened to be consistent with everyone else's wrong data? Because that seems pretty ridiculous.

JK: what evidence have you got that neutrino results are suspect? Because scientists (you know, the people who know stuff) seem to think they're pretty reliable.

Can any FE'ers explain the nutrinos detected at night, or the neutrino beam that passed through the Earth?
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Johannes

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Re: Solar Neutrinos
« Reply #199 on: February 27, 2009, 05:10:02 PM »
My argument is that since the instrumentation used to obtain the neutrino data is not open (no documentation, schematics, instructions on how to build, no source code) it is not scientific. Therefore it is not proof of anything. For all I know the instrumentation is rigged.
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zork

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Re: Solar Neutrinos
« Reply #200 on: February 28, 2009, 02:27:18 AM »
 No, this is not your argument. Your argument is that because you don't know a thing about neutrinos and how to detect them you just bitch here. If you want to know something the go and study and get in to some of these laboratories. In your logic there is no way the atomic or hydrogen bomb works because their schematics and building instructions aren't also available.
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Rowbotham had bad eyesight
-
http://thulescientific.com/Lynch%20Curvature%202008.pdf - Visually discerning the curvature of the Earth
http://thulescientific.com/TurbulentShipWakes_Lynch_AO_2005.pdf - Turbulent ship wakes:further evidence that the Earth is round.
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svenanders

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Re: Solar Neutrinos
« Reply #201 on: February 28, 2009, 04:23:13 AM »
Yes. This is how Johannes Kepler works. If he can't see at thing it doesn't exist.
So I guess all that money spent on LHC goes right in someones pockets. And the test proton beam
they say they sent, was just a bad Commodore 64 game. Am I right?
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bowler

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Re: Solar Neutrinos
« Reply #202 on: March 02, 2009, 05:03:10 AM »
Well at this point im implicitly a member of the conspiracy so I'm happy. I've never been called a member of a dark conspiracy and I have to say it gives me a warm fuzzy feeling.
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svenanders

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Re: Solar Neutrinos
« Reply #203 on: March 02, 2009, 06:18:09 AM »
Quote from: bowler on March 02, 2009, 05:03:10 AM
Well at this point im implicitly a member of the conspiracy so I'm happy. I've never been called a member of a dark conspiracy and I have to say it gives me a warm fuzzy feeling.

In your behind?
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bowler

  • 871
Re: Solar Neutrinos
« Reply #204 on: March 02, 2009, 07:31:02 AM »
All over really I just like the idea of wearing a black suit and sunglasses and meeting in a long lost temple buried deep underground. Maybe I just yearn to be popular.
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Lord Wilmore

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Re: Solar Neutrinos
« Reply #205 on: March 02, 2009, 11:06:27 AM »
Quote from: zork on February 28, 2009, 02:27:18 AM
No, this is not your argument. Your argument is that because you don't know a thing about neutrinos and how to detect them you just bitch here. If you want to know something the go and study and get in to some of these laboratories. In your logic there is no way the atomic or hydrogen bomb works because their schematics and building instructions aren't also available.

That's a ridiculous analogy. The results of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were witnessed first hand by an awful lot of people, many of whom were walking evidence themselves. You're comparing chalk and cheese because they are occasionally the same colour.
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"I want truth for truth's sake, not for the applaud or approval of men. I would not reject truth because it is unpopular, nor accept error because it is popular. I should rather be right and stand alone than run with the multitude and be wrong." - C.S. DeFord
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zork

  • 3319
Re: Solar Neutrinos
« Reply #206 on: March 02, 2009, 11:11:42 AM »
Quote from: NEEMAN on March 02, 2009, 11:06:27 AM
Quote from: zork on February 28, 2009, 02:27:18 AM
No, this is not your argument. Your argument is that because you don't know a thing about neutrinos and how to detect them you just bitch here. If you want to know something the go and study and get in to some of these laboratories. In your logic there is no way the atomic or hydrogen bomb works because their schematics and building instructions aren't also available.

That's a ridiculous analogy. The results of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were witnessed first hand by an awful lot of people, many of whom were walking evidence themselves. You're comparing chalk and cheese because they are occasionally the same colour.
Who care's about first hand witnesses. Bowler here has first hand experience with neutrinos(in my understanding) but who cares about it. And so are many other things here. You must ask Kepler, why is it so that if you can't get schematics and all other stuff then it's not working. If it goes for neutrino detectors so it goes for atomic or hydrogen bomb.
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Rowbotham had bad eyesight
-
http://thulescientific.com/Lynch%20Curvature%202008.pdf - Visually discerning the curvature of the Earth
http://thulescientific.com/TurbulentShipWakes_Lynch_AO_2005.pdf - Turbulent ship wakes:further evidence that the Earth is round.
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Lord Wilmore

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Re: Solar Neutrinos
« Reply #207 on: March 02, 2009, 11:30:30 AM »
Uh, no it doesn't. Atomic weapons have been used in anger twice and tested thousands of times. More importantly, the result of those tests is to all intensive purposes undeniable.
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"I want truth for truth's sake, not for the applaud or approval of men. I would not reject truth because it is unpopular, nor accept error because it is popular. I should rather be right and stand alone than run with the multitude and be wrong." - C.S. DeFord
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markjo

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Re: Solar Neutrinos
« Reply #208 on: March 02, 2009, 11:53:45 AM »
Quote from: NEEMAN on March 02, 2009, 11:30:30 AM
Uh, no it doesn't. Atomic weapons have been used in anger twice and tested thousands of times. More importantly, the result of those tests is to all intensive for all intents and purposes undeniable.

*sigh*

There is a 20 something page thread in AS that wants to deny those tests.
http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=11293.0
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Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.
*

Lord Wilmore

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Re: Solar Neutrinos
« Reply #209 on: March 02, 2009, 11:54:52 AM »
In a world where people deny that the earth is flat, nothing surprises me.
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"I want truth for truth's sake, not for the applaud or approval of men. I would not reject truth because it is unpopular, nor accept error because it is popular. I should rather be right and stand alone than run with the multitude and be wrong." - C.S. DeFord
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