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darkstorm

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« on: January 25, 2007, 05:15:48 PM »
If you people believe in these conspiracies, and even if you don’t hear is a video about actual conspiracies. Its done for American people so it repeats its self a lot but if you can look past the bull shit I think there is a lot of truth in it. It is well long but plough through the shit about the Oklahoma bombing cos it dose get better…

http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=-6517776133137328105&q=911
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Dioptimus Drime

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« Reply #1 on: January 25, 2007, 05:34:59 PM »
A) What's with the blatant bias against American people? That's just douchebaggy.

B) What does this have to do with the flat Earth theory anyways? You think we're stupid enough to believe in that kind of conspiracy?

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darkstorm

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« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2007, 04:25:28 AM »
You believe that the world is flat; I think that you’re prepared to believe anything!
As for the bias against the American people
, Well I am not saying that they are all stupid, just that if you watch American programs they repeat them self’s loads, British people can understand things the first time round so that is presumably why British programs don’t.

I cant believe that you will believe that the earth is flat with NO real evidence but wont believe in the truth about how corrupt governments are when there is so much evidence to support it.

But wait, you don’t believe the earth is round when there is so much evidence so I guess it actually makes sense!

It isn’t really about FE but I figured that if you guys are eager for conspiracy then you might as well get into some that are true.

Watch the video if you haven’t.
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beast

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« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2007, 04:50:19 AM »
Although I loath many things about American culture, American politics and especially about the American assimilation of Australian culture, it is painfully obvious that you cannot hold the people of America to account for those actions, any more than I could hold you to account for Tony Blair's support for the war in Iraq, or I can be held to account for the genocide committed in Australia against the Australian Aborigines.  

I find the assertion that American's are generally stupid insulting and verging on racist.  It is certainly a completely baseless and ignorant statement to make.  It is very clear that the people of the world are not born with any more or less intelligence because of the nation that they are born in and that this kind of nationalism or anti-nationalism is patently ridiculous.

If we were to judge people's intelligence, it is clear from your use of grammar and your comments, that you are far from being amongst the elite of the intellectual world.

Your apparent lack of intelligence is most notable on your complete inability to see beyond the surface and to look at issues with greater depth than face value.  It is clear that there are many Americans on this forum who are actually more than capable to use what Keith Devlin, in his book The Maths Gene, calls the fourth level of abstraction.  It is equally clear that you do not have that ability, and probably never will.  You are entitled to believe what ever you want, but perhaps you should question if people are saying what they actually believe, or if they are saying something different, in order to receive a very predictable response, for other purposes.

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« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2007, 05:11:46 AM »
Ouch  :twisted: Nice

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joffenz

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« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2007, 08:42:21 AM »
It's over 2 hours long, but I can say from past experience with other Alex Jones films (Loose Change) that his films are overflowing with lies and deceit.

In my opinion he has two purposes in making his films;

1) Simply to make money. Although this is a minor goal, it's clearly one his purposes. All of the videos on his wesbite must be bought. I mean, if I knew the U.N was going to release a d34dly g4s of d00m on 80% of the population, I wouldn't be selling my videos, I'd be giving them away.

2) To transfer the public attention away from the real crimes perpetrated by global capitalism and it's sponsors. The part about the CIA training Al-Qaida to fight the Soviet union was indeed true, but I believe they only acknowledged the risk of them turning on the United States, rather than actually planning for it. Brzezinski said it best:

"What is most important to the history of the world? The Taliban or the collapse of the Soviet empire? Some stirred-up Muslims or the liberation of Central Europe and the end of the cold war?"

They knew there was a risk in training Al-Qaidi, but their goal was to destroy the Soviet Union.

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darkstorm

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« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2007, 09:14:41 AM »
I love how bitchy you people can get, the point of this thread was not to start a debate as to how stupid Americans, or indeed I may be. American programs repeat them self’s, fact, that can get a little tedious so I was just trying to watch in despite of this.
I don’t think Americans are stupid; I don’t like my own countries policies any more than American.

The point of this tread was also not to convert you into Alex Jones fans, just to show people on hear who already believe that the government lies to them, that there are other more believable lies.

I can see some things Alex Jones says is a little far fetched, but there is truth in some of it, this video is just good because it covers a large range of issued {to do with America, as it is American}. I have seen things on these issues else where, but this just covers them all at once.
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Masterchef

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« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2007, 09:45:09 AM »
Quote from: "darkstorm"
American programs repeat them self’s, fact...

Thats funny, none of the shows I watch repeat themselves. :?

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dantheman40k

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« Reply #8 on: January 26, 2007, 12:13:20 PM »
Quote from: "beast"
Although I loath many things about American culture, American politics and especially about the American assimilation of Australian culture, it is painfully obvious that you cannot hold the people of America to account for those actions, any more than I could hold you to account for Tony Blair's support for the war in Iraq, or I can be held to account for the genocide committed in Australia against the Australian Aborigines.  


Or me for Tony Blair.


I find the assertion that American's are generally stupid insulting and verging on racist.  It is certainly a completely baseless and ignorant statement to make.


They dont do themselves any favours though with all that Christian fundalmentalisum.

 It is very clear that the people of the world are not born with any more or less intelligence because of the nation that they are born in and that this kind of nationalism or anti-nationalism is patently ridiculous.

I could care less if youre Americian or not. If you say something retarded I'll call you retarded.

If we were to judge people's intelligence, it is clear from your use of grammar and your comments, that you are far from being amongst the elite of the intellectual world.

You yell at people for insulting but turn round and insult them yourself!

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Dioptimus Drime

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« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2007, 12:31:29 PM »
^Christian fundamentalism? I'm not Christian. I've got plenty of friends who aren't Christian, and America as a whole is nondenominational when it comes to religion. Keep that in mind.

Also, beast wasn't being pissy because the OP was insulting people, he was being pissy because the OP was insulting people on absolutely no pretenses, due to stereotypes which are just completely wrong and entirely unnecessary.

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Rick_James

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« Reply #10 on: January 26, 2007, 02:10:35 PM »
Whereas dan jumps in and slings a bit of poo around at every opportunity... Back to angry ranting, dan!

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beast

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« Reply #11 on: January 26, 2007, 03:50:01 PM »
I can only guess that Dan is literally retarded.

Let's take this apart piece by piece.

Quote from: "dantheman40k"
Or me for Tony Blair.


Which is interesting because you wrote that in response to me writing;

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It is painfully obvious that you cannot hold the people of America to account for those actions, any more than I could hold you to account for Tony Blair's support for the war in Iraq.


Did you just not read what I wrote, or did you feel a need to repeat what I wrote?

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They dont do themselves any favours though with all that Christian fundalmentalisum.


What should the majority of Americans, who are not fundamentalists, do about the Christian fundamentalists?  Kill them?  Lock them up?  How can you possibly blame everybody who lives in that country for the actions of the minority?  I have plenty of American friends, and none of them are Christian fundamentalists.  Just because that's what you read about, it doesn't mean they're all like that.  In any event, studies show that 80% of people have the same religious convictions as their parents.  With that in mind, how fair is it to blame people for religious convictions?

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I could care less if youre Americian or not. If you say something retarded I'll call you retarded.


What the fuck is your point?  It appears that you're actually too stupid to understand what my post was saying.  If somebody says stupid things then there is no reason you shouldn't call them on it.  What I was saying was that it is wrong to make the statement that Americans are stupid.  I don't understand how I could have written my post any clearer, but apparently some people's reading skills still need a little work.

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You yell at people for insulting but turn round and insult them yourself!


Obviously at no point in my post did I say that you shouldn't insult people.  What I clearly said was:

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You cannot hold the people of America to account for [the actions of their government].


I suggest you read my post again "Dan the man," and try to figure out what all those big words mean.  You should try to avoid commenting on things that you can't understand, because if you misunderstand as much as you did this time, you'll make yourself look just as stupid.

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dantheman40k

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« Reply #12 on: January 27, 2007, 02:23:52 AM »
Quote from: "beast"
I can only guess that Dan is literally retarded.

Go get stabbed by a sting ray.

Let's take this apart piece by piece.

Quote from: "dantheman40k"
Or me for Tony Blair.


Which is interesting because you wrote that in response to me writing;

Quote
It is painfully obvious that you cannot hold the people of America to account for those actions, any more than I could hold you to account for Tony Blair's support for the war in Iraq.


Did you just not read what I wrote, or did you feel a need to repeat what I wrote?


So I didnt read the post. Sue me.

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They dont do themselves any favours though with all that Christian fundalmentalisum.


What should the majority of Americans, who are not fundamentalists, do about the Christian fundamentalists?  Kill them?  Lock them up?  How can you possibly blame everybody who lives in that country for the actions of the minority?  I have plenty of American friends, and none of them are Christian fundamentalists.  Just because that's what you read about, it doesn't mean they're all like that.  In any event, studies show that 80% of people have the same religious convictions as their parents.  With that in mind, how fair is it to blame people for religious convictions?

All I was trying to say is that there are a lot of stupid people in America.

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I could care less if youre Americian or not. If you say something retarded I'll call you retarded.


What the fuck is your point?  It appears that you're actually too stupid to understand what my post was saying.  If somebody says stupid things then there is no reason you shouldn't call them on it.  What I was saying was that it is wrong to make the statement that Americans are stupid.  I don't understand how I could have written my post any clearer, but apparently some people's reading skills still need a little work.

But  they are. Look at the results of the 2004 Election.

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You yell at people for insulting but turn round and insult them yourself!


Obviously at no point in my post did I say that you shouldn't insult people.  What I clearly said was:

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You cannot hold the people of America to account for [the actions of their government].


You still shouldnt brade people for calling others stupid and then call them stupid.

I suggest you read my post again "Dan the man," and try to figure out what all those big words mean.  You should try to avoid commenting on things that you can't understand, because if you misunderstand as much as you did this time, you'll make yourself look just as stupid.


And I suggest that you stop insulting people.
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beast

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« Reply #13 on: January 27, 2007, 03:02:37 AM »
How stupid are you?

Why would Americans be any more stupid than Africans, Australians, Japanese, Turks, Lebanese, French, Swiss, Fins or people from any other country.  Yes there are stupid Americans, just like there are stupid people from every country in the world.  However that certainly does not mean that they all are, or even a majority of them are.

I have no problems with insulting people, otherwise I wouldn't insult you.  I have problems with nationalism, having my friends insulted because of the country where they live and irrational insults.

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joffenz

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« Reply #14 on: January 27, 2007, 04:32:27 AM »
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iq_by_country

United Kingdom    100
United States 98

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Dantheman and beast, stop with the insults. If you really want to flame each other, go to angry rantings, or do it through pm's, or even better stop being immature.

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beast

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« Reply #15 on: January 27, 2007, 04:44:12 AM »
Dude, did you read the article you linked, because it doesn't back up those IQ figures at all.

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joffenz

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« Reply #16 on: January 27, 2007, 05:11:54 AM »
I read it, and I also made a typo. I meant 98 not 88.

I'm actually on your side beast, American's are not any more stupid than anyone else.

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darkstorm

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« Reply #17 on: January 27, 2007, 09:35:52 AM »
Oh my days, do you people actually read back what you write? This thread has turned into a debate on American culture when that is not what it was about at all. If you actually read my post without having how you can pick it apart in the back of your mind the whole time, you would realise this.
Yes there was a slight “Americans are stupid” thing within my post but I didn’t mean it a literally as you seem to have thought so fuckin keep your wallabies together mate and how’s about just reading a post for what is written and not yearning for argument.

The post is about conspiracies, nothing else, and reading through all those last posts so far we have this that is of relevance….

Cheesejoff says: It's over 2 hours long, but I can say from past experience with other Alex Jones films (Loose Change) that his films are overflowing with lies and deceit.

In my opinion he has two purposes in making his films;

1) Simply to make money. Although this is a minor goal, it's clearly one his purposes. All of the videos on his website must be bought. I mean, if I knew the U.N was going to release a d34dly g4s of d00m on 80% of the population, I wouldn't be selling my videos; I'd be giving them away.

2) To transfer the public attention away from the real crimes perpetrated by global capitalism and it's sponsors. The part about the CIA training Al-Qaida to fight the Soviet union was indeed true, but I believe they only acknowledged the risk of them turning on the United States, rather than actually planning for it. Brzezinski said it best:

"What is most important to the history of the world? The Taliban or the collapse of the Soviet empire? Some stirred-up Muslims or the liberation of Central Europe and the end of the cold war?"

They knew there was a risk in training Al-Qaidi, but their goal was to destroy the Soviet Union.

And then I said: I can see some things Alex Jones says is a little far fetched, but there is truth in some of it, this video is just good because it covers a large range of issued {to do with America, as it is American}. I have seen things on these issues else where, but this just covers them all at once.

And so, that’s it, well done cheesejoff you win as the only person to say anything of relevance.
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TheEngineer

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« Reply #18 on: January 27, 2007, 09:44:33 AM »
Quote from: "darkstorm"
American programs repeat them self’s, fact

What programs, exactly?


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skeptical scientist

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« Reply #19 on: January 27, 2007, 01:08:55 PM »
Quote from: "beast"
Dude, did you read the article you linked, because it doesn't back up those IQ figures at all.

Why do you say that? Most of the criticisms were for the accuracy of the scores of low-IQ nations. The data were drawn from individual studies, so are likely to be as accurate as those studies. Since the UK and US are major centers of research science, it seems likely that there have been many good studies done, and so the IQ figures given for the US and UK are likely to be accurate. (Unlike, say, the figure for china which was based on arbitrarily adjusting a single IQ study done in Shanghai.)
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beast

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« Reply #20 on: January 27, 2007, 05:49:39 PM »
Quote
The number of participants in each study was usually limited, often numbering under a few hundred. The exceptions to this were the United States and Japan, for which studies using more than several thousand participants are available.


So the UK scored 2 points higher than the US, but the UK surveyed around 100 - 200 people to get that score, while the US surveyed over 2000.  I don't think that's a very scientific, or accurate, study.  You're a scientist David.  You tell me.

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CrimsonKing

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« Reply #21 on: January 27, 2007, 07:24:50 PM »
Quote from: "darkstorm"
American programs repeat them self’s


I disagree, in fact, I think that Japanese programs repeat themselves the most.  At leas from the small amount of anime I've seen, it seems like a dozen episodes need to pass before anyhing new happens.
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darkstorm

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« Reply #22 on: January 28, 2007, 03:09:53 AM »
again, people, not realy understanding this thread. i guess you people are just too smart for simple threads. :D
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beast

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« Reply #23 on: January 28, 2007, 05:25:33 AM »
Or maybe we just don't care about your conspiracy video.

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darkstorm

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« Reply #24 on: January 28, 2007, 07:21:18 AM »
no, your right, being wankers is much more fun.
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joffenz

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« Reply #25 on: January 28, 2007, 08:17:56 AM »
Quote from: "beast"
So the UK scored 2 points higher than the US, but the UK surveyed around 100 - 200 people to get that score, while the US surveyed over 2000.  I don't think that's a very scientific, or accurate, study.  You're a scientist David.  You tell me.


True, but the population of the U.S is much larger than the population of the U.K, so as a percentage it's probably similiar.

The point is that the difference between the countries IQ's is very small indeed, and not large enough to justify suggesting American's are stupid.

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skeptical scientist

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« Reply #26 on: January 28, 2007, 02:09:45 PM »
Quote from: "beast"
Quote
The number of participants in each study was usually limited, often numbering under a few hundred. The exceptions to this were the United States and Japan, for which studies using more than several thousand participants are available.


So the UK scored 2 points higher than the US, but the UK surveyed around 100 - 200 people to get that score, while the US surveyed over 2000.  I don't think that's a very scientific, or accurate, study.  You're a scientist David.  You tell me.

They got all their UK data from one study with 100-200 people? That does sound pretty suspect. I just read "Central to the book's thesis is a tabulation of what Lynn and Vanhanen believe to be the average IQs of the world's nations. Rather than do their own IQ studies (a potentially massive project), the authors average and adjust existing studies," and assumed that plenty of studies would have been done in the UK, as it's a Western nation with a lot of graduate students who have nothing better to do than conduct studies. I didn't actually read the study - I only read the Wikipedia article, and it didn't say anything about the paucity of data from the UK.

Edit: are you sure it was one study with a few hundred people? If it was drawn by averaging several studies, each of which only covered a few hundred people, then that could definitely be a decent measure of average IQ, and still fit the sentence you quoted.
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BOGWarrior89

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« Reply #27 on: January 28, 2007, 02:16:17 PM »
Quote from: "CrimsonKing"
Quote from: "darkstorm"
American programs repeat them self’s


I disagree, in fact, I think that Japanese programs repeat themselves the most.  At leas from the small amount of anime I've seen, it seems like a dozen episodes need to pass before anyhing new happens.


How many DragonBall Z characters does it take to screw in a lightbulb?

Just one, but it'll take 43 episodes.

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Nomad

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« Reply #28 on: January 28, 2007, 02:32:39 PM »
Quote from: "BOGWarrior89"
Quote from: "CrimsonKing"
Quote from: "darkstorm"
American programs repeat them self’s


I disagree, in fact, I think that Japanese programs repeat themselves the most.  At leas from the small amount of anime I've seen, it seems like a dozen episodes need to pass before anyhing new happens.


How many DragonBall Z characters does it take to screw in a lightbulb?

Just one, but it'll take 43 episodes.


Pretty much.

Not all anime is like that, though.  If you read the manga instead of watch the show, as well, things tend to go a lot faster.
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beast

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« Reply #29 on: January 28, 2007, 03:56:41 PM »
Quote from: "skeptical scientist"


Edit: are you sure it was one study with a few hundred people? If it was drawn by averaging several studies, each of which only covered a few hundred people, then that could definitely be a decent measure of average IQ, and still fit the sentence you quoted.


I quoted this directly from the wikipedia article.

Quote
The number of participants in each study was usually limited, often numbering under a few hundred. The exceptions to this were the United States and Japan, for which studies using more than several thousand participants are available.


It also says that some of the results came from 2 studies, while most came from 1 study - so essentially there was no uniform process per country and most results were based on the IQs of around 150 people.