Air density thought experiment

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Air density thought experiment
« on: July 04, 2022, 03:58:32 AM »
Here's a thought experiment based on the difference in density between the object and the medium being the reason for why things fall.

Imagine an airtight glass box with a ball inside suspended from the top. The box is pressurized to exactly 1ATM. The ball is then dropped and falls at a certain speed.

The experiment is then repeated exactly the same, except the box is now pressurized to 0.5ATM. Does the ball fall faster or slower than 1ATM? By how much is it slowed or sped up?

Then do the experiment again but at 2ATM. Does the ball fall faster or slower than 1ATM and by how much?

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Mikey T.

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Re: Air density thought experiment
« Reply #1 on: July 04, 2022, 09:41:23 AM »
Depends a lot on the density of the ball.
A solid iron ball, would pretty much fall at the same rate with very minor speed changes due to increased air friction.
A balloon with just air would fall a bit slower in higher ATM due to the same this, air friction.
The downwards force would still be the same, just the resistance to movement due to friction from the increased air particles resulting in increased friction.

Re: Air density thought experiment
« Reply #2 on: July 04, 2022, 09:50:05 AM »
Depends a lot on the density of the ball.
A solid iron ball, would pretty much fall at the same rate with very minor speed changes due to increased air friction.
A balloon with just air would fall a bit slower in higher ATM due to the same this, air friction.
The downwards force would still be the same, just the resistance to movement due to friction from the increased air particles resulting in increased friction.

So if air density doesn't seem to significantly affect how fast objects fall (except for air resistance) then why do flat earthers always explain objects falling with the density/buoyancy explanation? You say the downwards force would still be the same, what is the downwards force?

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boydster

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Re: Air density thought experiment
« Reply #3 on: July 04, 2022, 11:21:05 AM »
why do flat earthers always explain objects falling with the density/buoyancy explanation?
I can spend 5 seconds looking at this very site to arrive at the conclusion that Flat Earthers don't always explain objects falling in the manner you described. You could do that, too, if you wanted. Check out Jane's FE compendium thread, it's a great place to start.

The answer to your question is that your question is based on a false premise.

Re: Air density thought experiment
« Reply #4 on: July 04, 2022, 11:37:48 AM »
why do flat earthers always explain objects falling with the density/buoyancy explanation?
I can spend 5 seconds looking at this very site to arrive at the conclusion that Flat Earthers don't always explain objects falling in the manner you described. You could do that, too, if you wanted. Check out Jane's FE compendium thread, it's a great place to start.

The answer to your question is that your question is based on a false premise.

I've had a look at your flat earth FAQ thread and seen that your explanation is that the earth is accelerating up at 9.8m/s squared.

Other flat earth forums I've been on disagree and say that's wrong and its due to density and buoyancy.

Its hard to debate with flat earthers (and to take your theory seriously) when none of you agree on explanations for everyday phenomena.

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Mikey T.

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Re: Air density thought experiment
« Reply #5 on: July 04, 2022, 11:46:17 AM »
Depends a lot on the density of the ball.
A solid iron ball, would pretty much fall at the same rate with very minor speed changes due to increased air friction.
A balloon with just air would fall a bit slower in higher ATM due to the same this, air friction.
The downwards force would still be the same, just the resistance to movement due to friction from the increased air particles resulting in increased friction.

So if air density doesn't seem to significantly affect how fast objects fall (except for air resistance) then why do flat earthers always explain objects falling with the density/buoyancy explanation? You say the downwards force would still be the same, what is the downwards force?
The downwards force is gravity.
Buoyancy has gravity as part of how you derive it.  More dense displaces less dense.
There are many theories for FE.  Some do not address things falling downwards, many do.

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Stash

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Re: Air density thought experiment
« Reply #6 on: July 04, 2022, 11:50:40 AM »
Its hard to debate with flat earthers (and to take your theory seriously) when none of you agree on explanations for everyday phenomena.

Lots of people believe in God, yet have wildly different theories/perspectives regarding the worship and rules of doing so. Belief in God is an everyday phenomena for many, yet many can't agree. Since they can't agree, does that mean God doesn't exist?

Re: Air density thought experiment
« Reply #7 on: July 04, 2022, 12:02:05 PM »
Its hard to debate with flat earthers (and to take your theory seriously) when none of you agree on explanations for everyday phenomena.

Lots of people believe in God, yet have wildly different theories/perspectives regarding the worship and rules of doing so. Belief in God is an everyday phenomena for many, yet many can't agree. Since they can't agree, does that mean God doesn't exist?

Not necessarily, but the lack of a consensus makes it far less convincing.

If all flat earthers agreed exactly how X, Y and Z works and the theory matches observation then far more people would take it seriously.

I saw an interview with Mark Sargent, he said something along the lines of this "flat earthers only agree on a single thing, the earth is not round".

What science does is make observations, do tests and gather evidence and sees where it all leads.

While on the other hand it seems like flat earthers have jumped the gun and all decided that they want the earth to be flat, but can't agree on how to get to that conclusion they've preemptively chosen.

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Mikey T.

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Re: Air density thought experiment
« Reply #8 on: July 04, 2022, 01:07:19 PM »
Its hard to debate with flat earthers (and to take your theory seriously) when none of you agree on explanations for everyday phenomena.

Lots of people believe in God, yet have wildly different theories/perspectives regarding the worship and rules of doing so. Belief in God is an everyday phenomena for many, yet many can't agree. Since they can't agree, does that mean God doesn't exist?

Not necessarily, but the lack of a consensus makes it far less convincing.

If all flat earthers agreed exactly how X, Y and Z works and the theory matches observation then far more people would take it seriously.

I saw an interview with Mark Sargent, he said something along the lines of this "flat earthers only agree on a single thing, the earth is not round".

What science does is make observations, do tests and gather evidence and sees where it all leads.

While on the other hand it seems like flat earthers have jumped the gun and all decided that they want the earth to be flat, but can't agree on how to get to that conclusion they've preemptively chosen.
There is a reason there are multiple FE types.  If you ask the FE community its because they have no support and are fighting against indoctrination.
While the non support portion is relatively true, there are some who have the resources, I find the indoctrination claim to be very much incorrect.  The problem is that not a single FE concept can explain several things we observe in reality.  Therefore there is multiple contradictory things in pretty much every FE concept which drives people to have to come up with different ideas and what ifs.  Just watch the globebusters try to debunk Professor Dave.  Every point they made contradicted a previous point they made.  No model, no math, nothing beyond strawman arguments, etc.  Some think math can be twisted, almost all believe in a huge conspiracy, almost all have no real concept of basic physics.

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boydster

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Re: Air density thought experiment
« Reply #9 on: July 04, 2022, 01:33:35 PM »
I've had a look at your flat earth FAQ thread and seen that your explanation is that the earth is accelerating up at 9.8m/s squared.

Other flat earth forums I've been on disagree and say that's wrong and its due to density and buoyancy.

Its hard to debate with flat earthers (and to take your theory seriously) when none of you agree on explanations for everyday phenomena.
You keep saying "you" to me, and yet there's no way you can actually be intending this to be directed at me personally. If I'm mistaken, you're very misguided and it would be a good idea to maybe step back from the initial shock of discovering the Flat Earth Society and the accompanying knee-jerk reaction to lash out at anyone you think isn't on your team.

There's a reason I pointed you toward the thread I mentioned, and not the wiki or FAQ. We have several different FE models/concepts that people discuss here, and it seems silly to take a different stance other than embracing that and instead alienate people that do not conform to one "chosen model."

You'd clearly like to debate something here, so that's a plus. It seems like your focus is on density/buoyancy as an alternative to Gravity. You're in luck! Sceptimatic has written quite a bit about that. Check out his denpressure ideas to get some background, I think Jane has some in the compendium and you can also look at Sceptimatic's post history.

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Re: Air density thought experiment
« Reply #10 on: July 04, 2022, 06:43:39 PM »
The idea that density is a proper replacement for gravity is quite the laugh. I'd say its the only thing more ludicrous than the earth accelerating upwards at 9.81m/s/s. At least that works out mathematically and observationally. Perhaps the youtube crowd should have read some books before jumping into a discussion nearly 200 years old.
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Mikey T.

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Re: Air density thought experiment
« Reply #11 on: July 05, 2022, 06:17:59 AM »
The idea that density is a proper replacement for gravity is quite the laugh. I'd say its the only thing more ludicrous than the earth accelerating upwards at 9.81m/s/s. At least that works out mathematically and observationally. Perhaps the youtube crowd should have read some books before jumping into a discussion nearly 200 years old.
Well, differences in the force measurements at different locations and different altitudes makes the accelerating upwards argument invalid also.  This is due to a few things, density of the materials below your feet, inverse square law of gravity matching altitude, and centrifugal acceleration from Earth's spin.  All measureable, albeit very tiny amounts of changes, still measureable and in accordance with what is predicted by the theory of gravity(aka how gravity works matches what we observe). 
Most FE ideas don't get to the point of actual analysis of measurements though.  Many dismiss math, measurements, photos, common sense, etc.  Sine those absolutely destroy all FE notions.

Re: Air density thought experiment
« Reply #12 on: July 05, 2022, 10:19:01 AM »
I've had a look at your flat earth FAQ thread and seen that your explanation is that the earth is accelerating up at 9.8m/s squared.

Other flat earth forums I've been on disagree and say that's wrong and its due to density and buoyancy.

Its hard to debate with flat earthers (and to take your theory seriously) when none of you agree on explanations for everyday phenomena.
You keep saying "you" to me, and yet there's no way you can actually be intending this to be directed at me personally. If I'm mistaken, you're very misguided and it would be a good idea to maybe step back from the initial shock of discovering the Flat Earth Society and the accompanying knee-jerk reaction to lash out at anyone you think isn't on your team.

There's a reason I pointed you toward the thread I mentioned, and not the wiki or FAQ. We have several different FE models/concepts that people discuss here, and it seems silly to take a different stance other than embracing that and instead alienate people that do not conform to one "chosen model."

You'd clearly like to debate something here, so that's a plus. It seems like your focus is on density/buoyancy as an alternative to Gravity. You're in luck! Sceptimatic has written quite a bit about that. Check out his denpressure ideas to get some background, I think Jane has some in the compendium and you can also look at Sceptimatic's post history.

Correct, I'm using a more general definition of "You". And I'm not shocked that flat earthers and the FES exist.

The problem with having multiple models is that only one can be correct. There is absolute truth about how gravity works, how large the earth is etc. These are not matters of opinion.

Do flat earthers actually come up with a hypothesis and test it so they can rule out different ideas and find which one is correct? The thought experiment I've proposed could be done practically, has no flat earther actually done a test to check if gravity actually works like that?

The biggest problem by far with flat earth theories is there's so many conflicting ones.

On the globe model, everybody agrees how fast the earth rotates, how long a year is, exactly how the sun, earth and moon interact etc. All the explanations for how these different things work match observation exactly and are consistent with each other so all fit into a single model.

Why is there no single model to explain these phenomenon on a flat earth?

Take days and seasons for example. The explanation I see most is that the sun moves in a circle above the earth which causes the day/night cycle. Seasons are caused by the sun moving closer to the northern tropic in northern hemisphere/hemiplane summer and closer to the southern tropic in winter. But these phenomena have to be shown on two different models because the explanations cause conflict with reality if you try to have both at once.

On a flat earth map the circle the sun completes once per day in winter is longer than the circle it completes in summer.

There are only two options:

1. The sun moves at a constant speed. This isn't correct because then a full day/night cycle would be shorter in summer than in winter because the sun travels a shorter distance.
2. The sun doesn't move at a constant speed. The sun speeds up in winter and slows down in summer to travel different distances in the same amount of time, so day/night cycle length is the same throughout the year. This isn't correct because nobody has ever observed the sun moving faster or slower based on time of year.

There are only two possible explanations and neither matches observation, therefore the flat earth theory is DOA before you even get on to things like how gravity works

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Re: Air density thought experiment
« Reply #13 on: July 05, 2022, 07:26:41 PM »
The idea that density is a proper replacement for gravity is quite the laugh. I'd say its the only thing more ludicrous than the earth accelerating upwards at 9.81m/s/s. At least that works out mathematically and observationally. Perhaps the youtube crowd should have read some books before jumping into a discussion nearly 200 years old.
Well, differences in the force measurements at different locations and different altitudes makes the accelerating upwards argument invalid also.  This is due to a few things, density of the materials below your feet, inverse square law of gravity matching altitude, and centrifugal acceleration from Earth's spin.  All measureable, albeit very tiny amounts of changes, still measureable and in accordance with what is predicted by the theory of gravity(aka how gravity works matches what we observe). 
Most FE ideas don't get to the point of actual analysis of measurements though.  Many dismiss math, measurements, photos, common sense, etc.  Sine those absolutely destroy all FE notions.
Except those questions have already been answered through the normal science that eventually discounted the acceleration hypothesis. Local discrepancies are due to mass indeed having a gravitational pull. Unfortunately, its less than estimated in the round earth model due to it assuming the movements of the heavens are the same thing that makes things fall. The density arguments may provide fruit, but it's unlikely as they have several flaws out of the box. Either way, we'll have to wait until they have matured enough to at least answer the questions that the silly accelerating earth already has.
The illusion is shattered if we ask what goes on behind the scenes.

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Mikey T.

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Re: Air density thought experiment
« Reply #14 on: July 05, 2022, 08:18:20 PM »
The idea that density is a proper replacement for gravity is quite the laugh. I'd say its the only thing more ludicrous than the earth accelerating upwards at 9.81m/s/s. At least that works out mathematically and observationally. Perhaps the youtube crowd should have read some books before jumping into a discussion nearly 200 years old.
Well, differences in the force measurements at different locations and different altitudes makes the accelerating upwards argument invalid also.  This is due to a few things, density of the materials below your feet, inverse square law of gravity matching altitude, and centrifugal acceleration from Earth's spin.  All measureable, albeit very tiny amounts of changes, still measureable and in accordance with what is predicted by the theory of gravity(aka how gravity works matches what we observe). 
Most FE ideas don't get to the point of actual analysis of measurements though.  Many dismiss math, measurements, photos, common sense, etc.  Sine those absolutely destroy all FE notions.
Except those questions have already been answered through the normal science that eventually discounted the acceleration hypothesis. Local discrepancies are due to mass indeed having a gravitational pull. Unfortunately, its less than estimated in the round earth model due to it assuming the movements of the heavens are the same thing that makes things fall. The density arguments may provide fruit, but it's unlikely as they have several flaws out of the box. Either way, we'll have to wait until they have matured enough to at least answer the questions that the silly accelerating earth already has.
That's a bit disingenuous, gravity has been tested.  And yes the movements of the celestial bodies is faster than what we expected from what we can actually see.  Something is causing it, we have a theory, that is unproven, yes.  But if proven, which they may in fact have been able to detect the dark matter recently, then it is still gravity, just we have to account for the dark matter.  Interesting that the math for the observable matter doesn't work, yet they haven't "twisted" math to fit.  It is an unknown that many people are trying to solve.  If what was recently detected as dark matter is verified and we come up with a way to detect it easier, then what will you say?  We aren't going to simply throw out everything we have discovered concerning gravity, we aren't going to claim that math can be twisted, we predict, observe, confirm or deny, then try to find out where our predictions were wrong.  So far, math isn't the failure.  Assumptions based on emotional needs are the biggest problems.  Much like FE notions, it isn't anything other than people needing to feel better about themselves, they want to feel like they know something other people don't.  You all need to realize that you are good enough without trying so desperately to be special.  Nothing backs up your claims, there isn't a massive conspiracy to hide the shape of the Earth.  Your feelings don't invalidate the math.
The accelerating Earth hasn't answered any questions, it has been thoroughly disproven.  What I mentioned is just a few of the ways it doesn't work, there are more.  Much like the idea of massively curved space making things that are flat appear to be curved.  I'll give you an A for originality, but a F for your understanding of physics.  It is hard to disprove, but impossible to prove.  And it doesn't actually work with the math, which is why you need to claim math can be twisted somehow.

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Re: Air density thought experiment
« Reply #15 on: July 05, 2022, 08:28:33 PM »
Quote
Your feelings don't invalidate the math.
Well at least you got one sentence right.

Yeah, its been disproven. That's what I said:
Quote
that eventually discounted the acceleration hypothesis

Again mate, what are you trying to say here.
The illusion is shattered if we ask what goes on behind the scenes.

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Re: Air density thought experiment
« Reply #16 on: July 05, 2022, 08:32:14 PM »
Also do you havew any actual non-emotional points to put forward, or just a rant about stuff that makes you feel bad? If my physics is so poor, or my mathematics (hey look they are two different things!) - what explicit issue do you bring. Why am I wrong?

At the very least, you can bring that - one would hope.
The illusion is shattered if we ask what goes on behind the scenes.

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JJA

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Re: Air density thought experiment
« Reply #17 on: July 06, 2022, 05:04:14 AM »
Also do you havew any actual non-emotional points to put forward, or just a rant about stuff that makes you feel bad? If my physics is so poor, or my mathematics (hey look they are two different things!) - what explicit issue do you bring. Why am I wrong?

Local discrepancies are due to mass indeed having a gravitational pull. Unfortunately, its less than estimated in the round earth model due to it assuming the movements of the heavens are the same thing that makes things fall.

Your arguments are just as emotional, as this example shows.  You are simply stating that gravity is wrong without providing any sources or any math.  I've asked you for sources in many previous discussions and never got any, and have to assume you won't give any here either.

But I will ask anyway, what is your source, evidence, math or measurements that the measured gravitational pull is less than estimated? Estimated by who? Measured where?

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Wolvaccine

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Re: Air density thought experiment
« Reply #18 on: July 06, 2022, 05:55:34 AM »
In our Dear Leaders defence, is anyone out there saying that 'gravity is correct'? It seems to me it's more like a placeholder until will learn more about it. Like Dark Matter and Dark Energy. They are placeholders to our ignorance.

I'd be wary in asserting that we have the answers already

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JJA

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Re: Air density thought experiment
« Reply #19 on: July 06, 2022, 06:28:00 AM »
In our Dear Leaders defence, is anyone out there saying that 'gravity is correct'? It seems to me it's more like a placeholder until will learn more about it. Like Dark Matter and Dark Energy. They are placeholders to our ignorance.

I'd be wary in asserting that we have the answers already

Everything is a placeholder, that's how science works. No matter how much we learn you can't prove there are not more fundamentals underneath.  That's no reason to claim that we know nothing at all.  We don't have all the answers and never will, but the answers we do have work.  Science built the world we live in and works pretty damn well, including the math of how gravity behaves.

But if he wants to claim that gravity doesn't work as predicted on Earth, he is going to have to show his evidence. I'm not holding my breath.

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Re: Air density thought experiment
« Reply #20 on: July 06, 2022, 09:24:40 AM »
Also do you havew any actual non-emotional points to put forward, or just a rant about stuff that makes you feel bad? If my physics is so poor, or my mathematics (hey look they are two different things!) - what explicit issue do you bring. Why am I wrong?

Local discrepancies are due to mass indeed having a gravitational pull. Unfortunately, its less than estimated in the round earth model due to it assuming the movements of the heavens are the same thing that makes things fall.

Your arguments are just as emotional, as this example shows.  You are simply stating that gravity is wrong without providing any sources or any math.  I've asked you for sources in many previous discussions and never got any, and have to assume you won't give any here either.

But I will ask anyway, what is your source, evidence, math or measurements that the measured gravitational pull is less than estimated? Estimated by who? Measured where?
Again, I disagree with the theory you are trying to have me defend. If you want to know about that theory, you can use the search.
The illusion is shattered if we ask what goes on behind the scenes.

Re: Air density thought experiment
« Reply #21 on: July 06, 2022, 11:04:30 AM »

Except those questions have already been answered through the normal science that eventually discounted the acceleration hypothesis. Local discrepancies are due to mass indeed having a gravitational pull. Unfortunately, its less than estimated in the round earth model due to it assuming the movements of the heavens are the same thing that makes things fall. The density arguments may provide fruit, but it's unlikely as they have several flaws out of the box. Either way, we'll have to wait until they have matured enough to at least answer the questions that the silly accelerating earth already has.

So what is the leading flat earth hypothesis at the moment?

I haven’t noticed much progress on the question. 

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NotSoSkeptical

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Re: Air density thought experiment
« Reply #22 on: July 06, 2022, 11:26:51 AM »

Except those questions have already been answered through the normal science that eventually discounted the acceleration hypothesis. Local discrepancies are due to mass indeed having a gravitational pull. Unfortunately, its less than estimated in the round earth model due to it assuming the movements of the heavens are the same thing that makes things fall. The density arguments may provide fruit, but it's unlikely as they have several flaws out of the box. Either way, we'll have to wait until they have matured enough to at least answer the questions that the silly accelerating earth already has.

So what is the leading flat earth hypothesis at the moment?

I haven’t noticed much progress on the question.

Infinite Plane?
Rabinoz RIP

That would put you in the same category as pedophile perverts like John Davis, NSS, robots like Stash, Shifter, and victimized kids like Alexey.

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Re: Air density thought experiment
« Reply #23 on: July 06, 2022, 02:37:31 PM »
Infinite plane is probably the most popular of the theories over the wider community that have come out of The Flat Earth Society. That said, I think the relativistic model answers far more questions.
The illusion is shattered if we ask what goes on behind the scenes.

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MaNaeSWolf

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Re: Air density thought experiment
« Reply #24 on: July 06, 2022, 10:02:02 PM »
Infinite plane is probably the most popular of the theories over the wider community that have come out of The Flat Earth Society. That said, I think the relativistic model answers far more questions.
Interesting you say that, because I was assulted by a mob when I said the infinite plane makes more sense to me at a FE discord forum. Suppose its pretty hard to have consensus on a topic when there is never supporitng evidence.
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JJA

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Re: Air density thought experiment
« Reply #25 on: July 07, 2022, 05:26:48 AM »
Also do you havew any actual non-emotional points to put forward, or just a rant about stuff that makes you feel bad? If my physics is so poor, or my mathematics (hey look they are two different things!) - what explicit issue do you bring. Why am I wrong?

Local discrepancies are due to mass indeed having a gravitational pull. Unfortunately, its less than estimated in the round earth model due to it assuming the movements of the heavens are the same thing that makes things fall.

Your arguments are just as emotional, as this example shows.  You are simply stating that gravity is wrong without providing any sources or any math.  I've asked you for sources in many previous discussions and never got any, and have to assume you won't give any here either.

But I will ask anyway, what is your source, evidence, math or measurements that the measured gravitational pull is less than estimated? Estimated by who? Measured where?
Again, I disagree with the theory you are trying to have me defend. If you want to know about that theory, you can use the search.
You disagree with what theory?  The endlessly accelerating Earth?  Or the theory of gravity which causes the Earth to form into a sphere?  Both?

You still stated that local gravitational discrepancies are less than estimated in the round earth model. Can you explain where you got the data to support this?  Or your evidence that the force that makes this move in the heavens is NOT the same as the force that makes things fall? These are pretty strong claims to make without backing them up.

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Re: Air density thought experiment
« Reply #26 on: July 07, 2022, 09:19:45 AM »
Also do you havew any actual non-emotional points to put forward, or just a rant about stuff that makes you feel bad? If my physics is so poor, or my mathematics (hey look they are two different things!) - what explicit issue do you bring. Why am I wrong?

Local discrepancies are due to mass indeed having a gravitational pull. Unfortunately, its less than estimated in the round earth model due to it assuming the movements of the heavens are the same thing that makes things fall.

Your arguments are just as emotional, as this example shows.  You are simply stating that gravity is wrong without providing any sources or any math.  I've asked you for sources in many previous discussions and never got any, and have to assume you won't give any here either.

But I will ask anyway, what is your source, evidence, math or measurements that the measured gravitational pull is less than estimated? Estimated by who? Measured where?
Again, I disagree with the theory you are trying to have me defend. If you want to know about that theory, you can use the search.
You disagree with what theory?  The endlessly accelerating Earth?  Or the theory of gravity which causes the Earth to form into a sphere?  Both?
Yes, both.

Quote
You still stated that local gravitational discrepancies are less than estimated in the round earth model. Can you explain where you got the data to support this?  Or your evidence that the force that makes this move in the heavens is NOT the same as the force that makes things fall? These are pretty strong claims to make without backing them up.
I stated that in reference to question being asked. Read the sentence before it. That said, iirc we got the data from GRACE and similar sources.

https://gracefo.jpl.nasa.gov/resources/47/gravity-anomaly-map-using-grace-data/
The illusion is shattered if we ask what goes on behind the scenes.

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Re: Air density thought experiment
« Reply #27 on: July 07, 2022, 09:21:10 AM »
Infinite plane is probably the most popular of the theories over the wider community that have come out of The Flat Earth Society. That said, I think the relativistic model answers far more questions.
Interesting you say that, because I was assulted by a mob when I said the infinite plane makes more sense to me at a FE discord forum. Suppose its pretty hard to have consensus on a topic when there is never supporitng evidence.
It certainly depends on the specific group.
The illusion is shattered if we ask what goes on behind the scenes.

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MaNaeSWolf

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Re: Air density thought experiment
« Reply #28 on: July 07, 2022, 09:50:56 AM »
I stated that in reference to question being asked. Read the sentence before it. That said, iirc we got the data from GRACE and similar sources.

https://gracefo.jpl.nasa.gov/resources/47/gravity-anomaly-map-using-grace-data/
You do realise that those anomolies exist because earth does not have a perfectly uniform surface density? Eg, Mountains have higher mass than vallies. Its not because gravity is doing something unexpected.
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Stash

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Re: Air density thought experiment
« Reply #29 on: July 07, 2022, 10:33:47 AM »
Also do you havew any actual non-emotional points to put forward, or just a rant about stuff that makes you feel bad? If my physics is so poor, or my mathematics (hey look they are two different things!) - what explicit issue do you bring. Why am I wrong?

Local discrepancies are due to mass indeed having a gravitational pull. Unfortunately, its less than estimated in the round earth model due to it assuming the movements of the heavens are the same thing that makes things fall.

Your arguments are just as emotional, as this example shows.  You are simply stating that gravity is wrong without providing any sources or any math.  I've asked you for sources in many previous discussions and never got any, and have to assume you won't give any here either.

But I will ask anyway, what is your source, evidence, math or measurements that the measured gravitational pull is less than estimated? Estimated by who? Measured where?
Again, I disagree with the theory you are trying to have me defend. If you want to know about that theory, you can use the search.
You disagree with what theory?  The endlessly accelerating Earth?  Or the theory of gravity which causes the Earth to form into a sphere?  Both?
Yes, both.

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You still stated that local gravitational discrepancies are less than estimated in the round earth model. Can you explain where you got the data to support this?  Or your evidence that the force that makes this move in the heavens is NOT the same as the force that makes things fall? These are pretty strong claims to make without backing them up.
I stated that in reference to question being asked. Read the sentence before it. That said, iirc we got the data from GRACE and similar sources.

https://gracefo.jpl.nasa.gov/resources/47/gravity-anomaly-map-using-grace-data/

Do you mean this GRACE data (from your link):