Katy Perry in space

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magellanclavichord

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Re: Katy Perry in space
« Reply #30 on: April 27, 2025, 05:03:42 PM »
Katy Perry and her fellow tourists were just a publicity stunt. W. Shatner and his fellow tourists were another. However, real astronauts do actual research work. Perry and Shatner are jokes.

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bulmabriefs144

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Re: Katy Perry in space
« Reply #31 on: April 28, 2025, 09:19:32 PM »
They are all jokes.

They are overserious tools running a scam, unaware that anyone serious knows that they sound silly with their carefully controlled tennis balls and their bad hairdos. 



That's just a shit ton of hairspray.

Real astronauts waste taxpayer money.

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JackBlack

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Re: Katy Perry in space
« Reply #32 on: April 29, 2025, 01:03:15 AM »
They are all jokes.
You mean you are desperate for them to be jokes, because you can't handle reality, so you need to reject them at all costs.

It is easy to dismiss a photo as hairspray, much harder for a video. And that doesn't help at all with all the cables.

The simplest explanation is that it is real.
It requires so much convoluted BS for it to be fake, and it makes no sense for it to be fake as there is no reason for it.

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magellanclavichord

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Re: Katy Perry in space
« Reply #33 on: April 29, 2025, 07:54:53 AM »
When Sputnik 1 first went up, there were people who said it was faked. But the scientists pointed out that it would actually be harder to fake it than to actually do it: With directional radio antennas you could tell that the beeping was coming from an object that was orbiting the Earth.

And still today, flat-earthers insist that all the evidence for a round Earth is faked.

Here's a conspiracy theory for you, and it's far more plausible than the absurd notion that NASA, along with a dozen other world governments and every astronomer in the world, are conspiring to hide the "truth" of a flat Earth:

The whole of "flat Earth theory" is actually a conspiracy to annoy people who take science seriously. 99% of flat-earthers know perfectly well that the Earth is round, and they make a game of inventing ludicrous arguments that it's flat. They have secret meetings  where they give prizes to the people who come up with the most preposterous arguments and rationalizations. Then they have open meetings and web forums where they troll normal people with their silliness, just because they think it's fun to annoy people who take things seriously. Flat-earth is performance art.

One percent of flat-earthers actually believe in it because they lack education or their brains have been putrified by religious indoctrination.

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Unconvinced

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Re: Katy Perry in space
« Reply #34 on: April 29, 2025, 11:47:20 AM »
She went on a feminist BS trip.

Nah.  It was a joy ride for insipid celebrities pretending that being glam in space is somehow empowering for women.

The sound of countless suffragettes and other feminist movements turning in their graves would be enough to drown out a blue origin rocket engine.  Not to mention real female astronauts.

This says it much better than I can:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/apr/15/lauren-sanchez-katy-perry-space-blue-origin-female-flight

« Last Edit: April 29, 2025, 11:49:18 AM by Unconvinced »

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JackBlack

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Re: Katy Perry in space
« Reply #35 on: April 29, 2025, 01:27:24 PM »
Nah.  It was a joy ride for insipid celebrities pretending that being glam in space is somehow empowering for women.
i.e. feminist BS.

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magellanclavichord

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Re: Katy Perry in space
« Reply #36 on: April 29, 2025, 04:33:08 PM »
Nah.  It was a joy ride for insipid celebrities pretending that being glam in space is somehow empowering for women.
i.e. feminist BS.

There was nothing feminist about this stunt. It was the opposite of feminism: It was using women to promote space tourism for billionaires.

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Username

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Re: Katy Perry in space
« Reply #37 on: April 29, 2025, 07:46:39 PM »
Nah.  It was a joy ride for insipid celebrities pretending that being glam in space is somehow empowering for women.
i.e. feminist BS.

There was nothing feminist about this stunt. It was the opposite of feminism: It was using women to promote space tourism for billionaires.

And what possible realistic motive could they have to do that. Its not like any of them believe Musk is colonizing a fucking planet. Sure vanity. But there are far more realistic ways to pet that dawg.
If you an't arge both sides, you understan neither

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markjo

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Re: Katy Perry in space
« Reply #38 on: April 29, 2025, 08:08:06 PM »
And what possible realistic motive could they have to do that. Its not like any of them believe Musk is colonizing a fucking planet. Sure vanity. But there are far more realistic ways to pet that dawg.
Sorry, wrong billionaire.  The all female Blue Origin flight was a Jeff Bezos publicity stunt, not an Elon Musk publicity stunt.  Blue Origin is having a hard enough time getting to orbit, let alone building their own satellite internet constellation or building factories in space.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
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Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
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It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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Re: Katy Perry in space
« Reply #39 on: April 29, 2025, 09:09:53 PM »
And what possible realistic motive could they have to do that. Its not like any of them believe Musk is colonizing a fucking planet. Sure vanity. But there are far more realistic ways to pet that dawg.
Sorry, wrong billionaire.  The all female Blue Origin flight was a Jeff Bezos publicity stunt, not an Elon Musk publicity stunt.  Blue Origin is having a hard enough time getting to orbit, let alone building their own satellite internet constellation or building factories in space.
Its not a matter of wrong billionaire - I was suggesting he's the latest poster boy. I would have called out Branson too. I'm sure they are all having a hard time now or soon.
If you an't arge both sides, you understan neither

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JackBlack

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Re: Katy Perry in space
« Reply #40 on: April 30, 2025, 02:30:52 AM »
There was nothing feminist about this stunt. It was the opposite of feminism: It was using women to promote space tourism for billionaires.
Certainly seemed like feminism. Trying to make a big deal about an all female team.
To show what women are capable of.
"empowering, groundbreaking and long overdue"

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Unconvinced

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Re: Katy Perry in space
« Reply #41 on: April 30, 2025, 12:12:46 PM »
Nah.  It was a joy ride for insipid celebrities pretending that being glam in space is somehow empowering for women.
i.e. feminist BS.

No, just BS that has nothing to do with feminism.

Certainly seemed like feminism. Trying to make a big deal about an all female team.
To show what women are capable of.
"empowering, groundbreaking and long overdue"

A lot like what Andrew Tate followers say about the manosphere, then.

Personally I’m inclined to say that sex slave trafficking rapists don’t make for good male role models.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2025, 12:39:29 PM by Unconvinced »

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magellanclavichord

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Re: Katy Perry in space
« Reply #42 on: April 30, 2025, 02:29:53 PM »
There was nothing feminist about this stunt. It was the opposite of feminism: It was using women to promote space tourism for billionaires.
Certainly seemed like feminism. Trying to make a big deal about an all female team.
To show what women are capable of.
"empowering, groundbreaking and long overdue"

What? To show that women are capable of sitting in a seat in a space capsule? Women are definitely capable of being astronauts, and many are, has has been shown since the Russians started sending female cosmonauts into space. These ladies did nothing! They did not show that they were capable of anything. And nobody needed to show that women were capable of sitting in a space capsule because they've been doing it for fifty years.

This was not feminism. It was a stupid, pointless publicity stunt by Bezos to show that his company could send people to space. And sending celebrities is the way you get publicity.

And what possible realistic motive could they have to do that. ...

Jeff Bezos trying to show off his space penis by sending a bunch of pretty women to the edge of space. (His rockets can't even make it into orbit yet.)

And BTW, if space rockets were fake (as many FEers claim) why can't Bezos fake it as well as Musk can? Why did Bezos have to "fake" a sub-orbital flight?

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JackBlack

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Re: Katy Perry in space
« Reply #43 on: April 30, 2025, 03:56:06 PM »
No, just BS that has nothing to do with feminism.
No, BS that has a lot to do with it, and the idea of female empowerment and female representation.
I see nothing at all to suggest it is not, and plenty to show it is.

Women are definitely capable of being astronauts, and many are, has has been shown since the Russians started sending female cosmonauts into space. These ladies did nothing! They did not show that they were capable of anything. And nobody needed to show that women were capable of sitting in a space capsule because they've been doing it for fifty years.
The same can be said for lots of feminist BS, yet they still do it.

This was not feminism.
It was.
It being a stupid publicity stunt doesn't mean it isn't feminism.

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magellanclavichord

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Re: Katy Perry in space
« Reply #44 on: April 30, 2025, 06:02:16 PM »
No, just BS that has nothing to do with feminism.
No, BS that has a lot to do with it, and the idea of female empowerment and female representation.
I see nothing at all to suggest it is not, and plenty to show it is.

Women are definitely capable of being astronauts, and many are, has has been shown since the Russians started sending female cosmonauts into space. These ladies did nothing! They did not show that they were capable of anything. And nobody needed to show that women were capable of sitting in a space capsule because they've been doing it for fifty years.
The same can be said for lots of feminist BS, yet they still do it.

This was not feminism.
It was.
It being a stupid publicity stunt doesn't mean it isn't feminism.

Feminism is the empowerment of women against the centuries of being denied opportunity. It is getting equal pay for equal work. It is getting equal opportunity in a society that privileges men and routinely hires and promotes men over women who are more qualified.

Feminism is not sending a bunch of pretty women to the edge of space in a rocket that famously resembles a penis, where they do nothing but sit in their seats for three or four minutes, then float around for another two or three, then sit in their seats again for another three or four. Feminism is absolutely not about exploiting pretty women to boost a male billionaire's ego.

NASA and Roscosmos and the CNSA all routinely send women to space to do actual research work in space and increase the store of human knowledge. And they select them for their abilities, not their looks. That's feminism. Giving important jobs to women because they are qualified to do them.

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JackBlack

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Re: Katy Perry in space
« Reply #45 on: May 01, 2025, 04:08:12 AM »
Feminism is the empowerment of women against the centuries of being denied opportunity. It is getting equal pay for equal work. It is getting equal opportunity in a society that privileges men and routinely hires and promotes men over women who are more qualified.
It is far wider than that.
That is just the very polished portrayal they want of it.

Feminism, in its simplest definition, is advocacy and action in the promotion of women's rights or interests.
It is not about equality and hasn't been pretty much from the start.
e.g. feminists advocating for the right to vote, while opposing given women the responsibilities that come with it like the possibility of being drafted.
And in modern times, like opposing those who want to make newly laws introduced laws criminalising infant genital mutilation being equal for both sexes and instead only wanting that protection being given to women; or actively opposing having the legal definition of rape to include female perpetrators and male victims; and incredibly sexist hiring practices where people are hired because of their sex, or scholarships given to people not based upon merit but because they are female; or being proud of a "gender diverse" committee, where 9 out of the 11 people on it are women; and perhaps even more ridiculous, equal pay for unequal work.

And they select them for their abilities, not their looks. That's feminism.
No, that would be a meritocracy or egalitarianism.
Feminism is hiring them because they are women.

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magellanclavichord

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Re: Katy Perry in space
« Reply #46 on: May 01, 2025, 07:10:56 AM »
Feminism is the empowerment of women against the centuries of being denied opportunity. It is getting equal pay for equal work. It is getting equal opportunity in a society that privileges men and routinely hires and promotes men over women who are more qualified.
It is far wider than that.
That is just the very polished portrayal they want of it.

Feminism, in its simplest definition, is advocacy and action in the promotion of women's rights or interests.
It is not about equality and hasn't been pretty much from the start.
e.g. feminists advocating for the right to vote, while opposing given women the responsibilities that come with it like the possibility of being drafted.
And in modern times, like opposing those who want to make newly laws introduced laws criminalising infant genital mutilation being equal for both sexes and instead only wanting that protection being given to women; or actively opposing having the legal definition of rape to include female perpetrators and male victims; and incredibly sexist hiring practices where people are hired because of their sex, or scholarships given to people not based upon merit but because they are female; or being proud of a "gender diverse" committee, where 9 out of the 11 people on it are women; and perhaps even more ridiculous, equal pay for unequal work.

And they select them for their abilities, not their looks. That's feminism.
No, that would be a meritocracy or egalitarianism.
Feminism is hiring them because they are women.

Actually, when we had the draft, feminists advocated for equality, and that women should be subject to the draft equally with men. I was there at the time. I remember. It was the same men who wanted their women barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen who opposed drafting women, supposedly to "protect" them.

Feminists also opposed genital mutilation of both boys and girls. None of them opposed laws against the rape of men.

Feminists demanded that the economy be egalitarian rather than discriminatory against women, as it has always been and still is, though to a lesser degree now than before.

What you are describing is a ridiculous caricature of feminism, a "straw women" invented by misogynistic men.

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Unconvinced

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Re: Katy Perry in space
« Reply #47 on: May 01, 2025, 11:41:33 AM »
Real feminists have fought for, and are still fighting for (somewhat dependent on country in question): the right to vote, to education, to equal pay, to not be treated as men’s property or trophies or baby making machines, to not be told their place is in the kitchen or bedroom, etc, etc.

Not to “put the ass in astronaut”.

It’s hilarious that Jack can’t tell the difference, but I expect nothing less.

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JackBlack

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Re: Katy Perry in space
« Reply #48 on: May 01, 2025, 03:12:10 PM »
Actually, when we had the draft, feminists advocated for equality, and that women should be subject to the draft equally with men. I was there at the time. I remember. It was the same men who wanted their women barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen who opposed drafting women, supposedly to "protect" them.
Actually, there were a variety of different groups.
Including some feminists advocating for not getting the vote to avoid the draft.


Feminists also opposed genital mutilation of both boys and girls. None of them opposed laws against the rape of men.
So you just wish to keep your head buried in the sand?
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/activists-join-chorus-against-gender-neutral-rape-laws/articleshow/18840879.cms

This even results in crap like the NISVS not including the vast majority of rapes committed by women against men as rape.
With feminists then happily misusing the distorted statistics from it.

And you have things like this:
https://lilith.org/articles/a-womans-view-of-circumcision/
A feminist who went along with having their male child mutilated.
You also have things like this:
https://lilith.org/articles/a-womans-view-of-circumcision/
Which include the fact that feminists opposed trying to include male infant genital mutilation, because they want to focus on female infant genital mutilation.

You even have things like this:
https://forward.com/life/140879/a-feminist-mohel-speaks-out/

Where this feminist is literally calling a proposed ban on male infant genital mutilation "an infringement on everybody’s rights."

That is how utterly insane a double standard it is.
Feminists want female infant genital mutilation made illegal as a violation of the rights of the child, yet will call attempts to ban male infant genital mutilation a violation of rights.

Just ask yourself, how many feminists have you heard talk about male infant genital mutilation vs female infant genital mutilation. And while you do, ask yourself where is female infant genital mutilation legal and practised where male infant genital mutilation isn't?

If it really was about equality, then either wouldn't be talking about it at all to instead focus on other issues; or they would be trying to make male infant genital mutilation recognised as just as illegal as female infant genital mutilation; or they would be trying to make female circumcision just as illegal as male circumcision.

But instead we see the opposite, with plenty of feminists outright oppose female infant genital mutilation while defending male infant genital mutilation.

Feminists demanded that the economy be egalitarian rather than discriminatory against women, as it has always been and still is, though to a lesser degree now than before.
Pure BS.
Feminists demand things like special jobs just for women.
That is not egalitarian. And that is not discriminatory against women.
That is discriminatory against men.
The days of the economy being discriminatory against women are long over, at least in the west.

If they really were going for egalitarianism rather than discrimination, they would be actively calling out any position that was for women only, unless that was a crucial part of the role.
But you can find plenty of them.
Likewise, they would oppose any scholarship which had sex as a factor for eligibility.

What you are describing is a ridiculous caricature of feminism, a "straw women" invented by misogynistic men.
No, it is an honest depiction by those who don't want to bury their head in the sand.

Real feminists have fought for, and are still fighting for (somewhat dependent on country in question): the right to vote, to education, to equal pay, to not be treated as men’s property or trophies or baby making machines, to not be told their place is in the kitchen or bedroom, etc, etc.

Not to “put the ass in astronaut”.

It’s hilarious that Jack can’t tell the difference, but I expect nothing less.
Or, to put it more honestly, I don't go along with the politically correct BS and instead say things as they are.

As for "real feminist" what would that be? One that you agree with? One that doesn't say or do things which make feminism look bad?
« Last Edit: May 01, 2025, 03:14:30 PM by JackBlack »

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Unconvinced

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Re: Katy Perry in space
« Reply #49 on: May 01, 2025, 07:40:19 PM »
Real feminists have fought for, and are still fighting for (somewhat dependent on country in question): the right to vote, to education, to equal pay, to not be treated as men’s property or trophies or baby making machines, to not be told their place is in the kitchen or bedroom, etc, etc.

Not to “put the ass in astronaut”.

It’s hilarious that Jack can’t tell the difference, but I expect nothing less.
Or, to put it more honestly, I don't go along with the politically correct BS and instead say things as they are.

As for "real feminist" what would that be? One that you agree with? One that doesn't say or do things which make feminism look bad?

LOL

You are going along with Lauren Sanchez and Katy Perry’s bullshit definition of feminism.  It’s not “saying things as they are” to call a sub orbital joy ride for a bunch of vacuous celebrities wearing lash extensions feminism. 

I believe I just said what real feminists are.  If you really need an example, then any normal woman risking a beating or worse from Iran’s morality police by defying the hijab law is a thousand times the feminist than any of the gal pals on Bezos’ PR stunt.





 

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JackBlack

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Re: Katy Perry in space
« Reply #50 on: May 02, 2025, 01:14:36 AM »
You are going along with Lauren Sanchez and Katy Perry’s bullshit definition of feminism.  It’s not “saying things as they are” to call a sub orbital joy ride for a bunch of vacuous celebrities wearing lash extensions feminism. 

I believe I just said what real feminists are.  If you really need an example, then any normal woman risking a beating or worse from Iran’s morality police by defying the hijab law is a thousand times the feminist than any of the gal pals on Bezos’ PR stunt.
I am going with the simplest definition.
The one based upon what they have historically done and are still doing.
The one based upon what they appear to support.

Rather than just ignoring the parts that are inconvenient.

Also, if they are only a thousand times the feminist, that still means these rocket girls are feminists.

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Unconvinced

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Re: Katy Perry in space
« Reply #51 on: May 02, 2025, 04:33:54 AM »
You are going along with Lauren Sanchez and Katy Perry’s bullshit definition of feminism.  It’s not “saying things as they are” to call a sub orbital joy ride for a bunch of vacuous celebrities wearing lash extensions feminism. 

I believe I just said what real feminists are.  If you really need an example, then any normal woman risking a beating or worse from Iran’s morality police by defying the hijab law is a thousand times the feminist than any of the gal pals on Bezos’ PR stunt.
I am going with the simplest definition.
The one based upon what they have historically done and are still doing.
The one based upon what they appear to support.

Rather than just ignoring the parts that are inconvenient.

Also, if they are only a thousand times the feminist, that still means these rocket girls are feminists.

What like this?

Originating in late 18th-century Europe, feminist movements have campaigned and continue to campaign for women's rights, including the right to vote, run for public office, work, earn equal pay, own property, receive education, enter into contracts, have equal rights within marriage, and maternity leave. Feminists have also worked to ensure access to contraception, legal abortions, and social integration; and to protect women and girls from sexual assault, sexual harassment, and domestic violence.  Changes in female dress standards and acceptable physical activities for women have also been part of feminist movements.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminism

Where is your “simplest definition” where feminism is about a bunch of celebrities making sure their hair and makeup is on point when they (barely) go to space for a few minutes?

Citation please.

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JackBlack

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Re: Katy Perry in space
« Reply #52 on: May 02, 2025, 03:13:01 PM »
What like this?
So your idea of a simple definition is a long paragraph with history tied to it?

The simplest definition, that I already provided:
"advocacy and action in the promotion of women's rights or interests."
It is not just about equality, and plenty of the actions they have taken demonstrate that.
Even just look at what you have provided, especially the part near the end:
to protect women and girls from sexual assault, sexual harassment, and domestic violence.
If it is meant to be about equality, why just protect women and girls from it?
What about the men and boys?
This is the kind of sexist mentality that minimises or dismissed the rape of men and boys especially by women.
The kind of mentality that leads to the UK having a law against rape which requires a male perpetrator, and those feminists in India opposing trying to have rape laws made gender neutral.

Where are all the feminists calling for these outdated, sexist definitions of rape to be modified to include male victims and female perpetrators?
So we don't end up with BS stats like "1 in 5 women and 1 in 72 men" in the US have been "raped" in their lifetime and in the 12 months prior to the survey 1.1% of women and not enough men to produce a statistically accurate result have been "raped", while those stats ignore the vast majority of rape cases where men are victims and women are perpetrators.

This is the kind of sexist mentality that results in criminalisation of female infant genital mutilation while being fine with male infant genital mutilation.
If it was truly about equality no feminist would be calling specifically for the banning of female infant genital mutilation (or female genital mutilation more generally) anywhere where it is legal and widely practiced to do it to boys.
Instead, we see feminists doing whatever they can to stop female genital mutilation while in plenty of cases actually defending male infant genital mutilation.

Likewise, it is the same kind of sexist attitudes that would see scholarships or grants just for males, or jobs just for males, or promotion aid and so on just for males as absolutely horrible and should not be allowed; but are perfectly and have no opposition at all to the same thing but benefiting women.

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magellanclavichord

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Re: Katy Perry in space
« Reply #53 on: May 02, 2025, 03:46:12 PM »
Whenever an oppressed group demands fair and equal treatment, they get accused of wanting special treatment. Not surprising, I suppose: The people who benefit from the racism or sexism of the status quo get very upset about the possibility of losing their privileged status.

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Unconvinced

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Re: Katy Perry in space
« Reply #54 on: May 02, 2025, 06:34:55 PM »
What like this?
So your idea of a simple definition is a long paragraph with history tied to it?

It’s “what they have historically done and are still doing” and “what they appear to support”, as per your post  Not just my idea though. 

You want some simpler definitions?  Fine.  Just the first few that popped up on the browser:

Advocacy of equality of the sexes and the establishment of the political, social, and economic rights of the female sex; the movement associated with this

https://www.oed.com/dictionary/feminism_n?tab=meaning_and_use

feminism, the belief in social, economic, and political equality of the sexes.

https://www.britannica.com/topic/feminism

the belief that women should be allowed the same rights, power, and opportunities as men and be treated in the same way, or the set of activities intended to achieve this state

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/feminism

belief in and advocacy of the political, economic, and social equality of the sexes expressed especially through organized activity on behalf of women's rights and interests

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/feminism

What you won’t find outside the manosphere is any definition matching what you are insinuating, that feminism is about promoting women’s rights above those of men. 

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The simplest definition, that I already provided:
"advocacy and action in the promotion of women's rights or interests."

Aye, your own definition that removes any reference to equality, and it still has fuck all to do with a space joy ride PR stunt for dumb celebrities concentrating on how hot they look.

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The kind of mentality that leads to the UK having a law against rape which requires a male perpetrator

The word rape has a specific meaning in English law.  It involves penetration by dick.  As someone who loves definitions so much (despite often just making up your own), I’d have thought you might appreciate that.

We have the whole range of laws and offences to cover all the eventualities including sexual assault, sex without consent, etc.

It’s NOT about any kind of “mentality” where men are always the perpetrators and women are always the victims, or whatever they say in the dark corners of the internet you frequent when you’re not here.

Our legal system is nearly a thousand years old.  Do you imagine that we had a more gender neutral definition of rape when the Vikings were raping and pillaging villages on the east coast, and it only changed in recent years because of pressure from wokey feminists and soy boys?  LOL

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bulmabriefs144

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Re: Katy Perry in space
« Reply #55 on: May 03, 2025, 02:40:46 AM »
First wave feminism was actually real feminism.
  • We'd like to be able to inherit property.
  • We'd like to go to school.
  • And could you stop beating us? No? Then maybe we can divorce your sorry ass.
  • And maybe vote.


Later forms were increasingly influenced by Marxism, and not necessarily in women's best interest. Second wave feminism
  • We'd like the universal right of abortion. (More a male fuckboy right than a women's right)


  • We'd like your sorry ass to pay child support (Good, except, it should really be housing support, until she is financially able to afford housing herself. And this created disharmony between men and women)
  • We'd like to work (Alright, I guess, but before that classically women were supported financially by men. If you loathe housework of loathe men, that's not a great deal. But if you have a husband who is sweet to you, you don't have to go out and put up with hustling to get a job, abusive boss or coworkers, or the expectation to somehow manage work, child-raising, and cooking/cleaning. A better favor to women were labor-saving devices, and maybe jobs that could be done at home like painting or writing. But here too, you could wind up with a dipshit husband who's masculinity was threatened)

[side_note]Because dual income was expected, this actually created higher housing (known as the Two-Income Trap) and taxes. Which in turn created stress and friction between the sexes leading to breakups, which in turn burdened men with those payments. A far more reasonable system would have been for married women not to be taxed at all unless they are considered the major breadwinner. In this way, a woman's income, even if it sucks, is always considered an asset. And there isn't a screwed up system where what the extra income goes to is toys for kids, but you buy too much house, because legally the income of women isn't considered in the financial calculation of taxes.[/side_note]
https://economics.stackexchange.com/questions/13224/the-effect-of-two-income-households-on-housing-prices

  • We'd like to be treated equally (okay, as long as that's defined)
  • We'd like theoretical legal rights mostly based on feelings (increasing talk about the patriarchy, etc)
  • There was also a push toward preventing racism.
  • And some good things happened like making equal pay for jobs, and equal credit for loans and stuff.


Then you have third wave feminism .
  • Mainly about redefining sex for individuality. In other words, women get to dress in a more genderfluid manner. Where does this leave men? Well in the past, these rights (except for child support) were mainly also men's rights. But think about this. If you like makeup and women's clothing, now you're in a bind. Either you get confused by the rising idea of transgenderism, where you decide you're really a woman and need to use women's bathrooms (leading to a later bathroom issue), or you run afoul of anti-gay laws even if all you are is a tomgirl. It's now socially acceptable for a woman to wear slacks or jeans (often without it meaning anything), but for a man to do so is often punished by the law and other men.
  • The rise of house husbands.
  • Legal cases concerning rape and sexual harassment are now a thing.
  • Woke terms like intersectionality start to arise.
  • "Choices are feminist." Like the choice to not wear makeup and become fat and homely.
  • Women allowed in classically male jobs like in religious settings.
Fourth wave feminism (so far, as it's started around 2007):
  • High levels of woke Marxist theory
  • #MeToo even when allegations are untrue (in fact, some of these damage the credibility of women)
  • Support of Islam (this can't end well, because Muslim men are notoriously regressive in terms of feminism) https://www.thecatholicthing.org/2018/03/08/the-strange-feminist-silence-on-islam/
  • Mainly followup on real (or imagined) wage gaps or inequalities, and othrr first through third wave stuff.
  • There's alot of dependence on on government (such as trying to get free stuff, like tampons)
  • There's actually not much in terms of women's rights. It's kinda "What do we want?!?" And when before, they'd say "Abortion on demand" or something, it's kinda "Erm..."

Fourth wave feminism is likely to actually reverse women's rights due to a combination of pushback and self-sabotage. Basically the sense that women have gone from landowners who could vote and independent identities back into dependence, this time to the state.

Fourth wave feminism is a bit like Dungeons and Dragons 5.5e, it's mostly theoretical changes, and not enough to it to really be called a wave. But it's certainly shooting itself in the foot.

*

JackBlack

  • 24272
  • +16/-40
Re: Katy Perry in space
« Reply #56 on: May 03, 2025, 11:25:40 PM »
Whenever an oppressed group demands fair and equal treatment, they get accused of wanting special treatment. Not surprising, I suppose: The people who benefit from the racism or sexism of the status quo get very upset about the possibility of losing their privileged status.
Notice how you entirely fail to address what I have said in any way.
Instead, you just reject what I have said and act like I want to oppress people.

They are not demanding fair and equal treatment, they want special treatment.
Again the example I have provided demonstrate this.

The simplest example to point to is infant genital mutilation.
Where feminists are very vocal at trying to ban it for females; while for the practice on males the feminists vary from also disliking it to opposing efforts to ban it and saying banning it would be a violation of rights.
They also make it clear they believe that preventing it is a feminist issue.
This makes it clear that it is NOT about equality.


What you won’t find outside the manosphere is any definition matching what you are insinuating, that feminism is about promoting women’s rights above those of men.
Now, because anything which could ever possibly suggest that is attacked, like you have done.
Actually, you can, found here listed under "Kids Definition" point 2:
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/feminism
Quote
organized activity on behalf of women's rights and interests
Perhaps because kids would see through the BS and question how special things just for women without the equivalent existing for men is sexism and not equality.

Aye, your own definition that removes any reference to equality, and it still has fuck all to do with a space joy ride PR stunt for dumb celebrities concentrating on how hot they look.
It would be actions to promote women's interests.
Following along the lines of sexism benefiting women is fine, sexism benefiting men is bad.

The word rape has a specific meaning in English law.
Yes, specific meaning which can be changed.
It also allows people to dishonestly skew statistics to act like only women are victims of rape, by using that sexist legal definition rather than a more inclusive common definition.

We have the whole range of laws and offences to cover all the eventualities including sexual assault, sex without consent, etc.
And yet no law specifically to cover a male victim of a female perpetrator which does not also cover a female victim of a male perpetrator.
Either the specific law of rape should be changed to be inclusive, or it should be removed with the already inclusive laws used instead.
Why should it have a special place?

Our legal system is nearly a thousand years old.  Do you imagine that we had a more gender neutral definition of rape when the Vikings were raping and pillaging villages on the east coast, and it only changed in recent years because of pressure from wokey feminists and soy boys?  LOL
The questions are the feminists who allegedly care about equality, trying to get this law changed to be gender neutral?

We'd like the universal right of abortion. (More a male fuckboy right than a women's right)
No, the male fuckboys could just have sex with them and toss them to the side to let them deal with the consequences.
Given women the right to abortion gave them the right to control their body. This also allowed them to start enjoying sex more for themselves, rather than just for male gratification.
If it was for men, then it would men deciding if they have the abortion.

But that, along with child support is another example of current sexism where there is a question of how to address it.
If a man and a woman have sex and the woman gets pregnant, then she can just have an abortion.
If she wants it then she can keep it and usually get the man to pay for it and frequently deny the man the access to their child. There has even been at least 1 case where a woman raped a man and he had to pay child support.

Compare that to the man, if he doesn't want it, then his options are to either pay for it anyway, convince the woman to have it herself, or convince the woman to have an abortion. Very limited power for him.
If he wants it, then he has to convince the woman to go to term and either have it together or let him have it.

This has lead to people suggesting the idea of a "male abortion" where the man is legally and financially removed from the child, so he would not have to pay child support or do anything to support the child. But so far that hasn't gained traction anywhere.

This then also leads to your next point; why should it be the man that has to pay child support and housing support?
Especially in cases where the woman has a job?

The family courts are heavily biased against men.

?

Unconvinced

  • 3362
  • +5/-12
Re: Katy Perry in space
« Reply #57 on: May 04, 2025, 04:31:51 AM »
Now, because anything which could ever possibly suggest that is attacked, like you have done.
Actually, you can, found here listed under "Kids Definition" point 2:
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/feminism
Quote
organized activity on behalf of women's rights and interests
Perhaps because kids would see through the BS and question how special things just for women without the equivalent existing for men is sexism and not equality.

Amazing.  In full:

1:  the theory supporting the political, economic, and social equality of the sexes
2:   organized activity on behalf of women's rights and interests

These are not two unrelated things.  The first part is the basic idea- equality for women, and the second is what they are doing about it.

So once again you scrub the equality part and there’s no mention of trying to elevate women above men.  Can’t you  even link to a dictionary definition for children without taking out parts you don’t like and claiming it means something it doesn’t say?

Quote
It would be actions to promote women's interests.
Following along the lines of sexism benefiting women is fine, sexism benefiting men is bad.

No, it’s actions to promote Jeff Bezos’ Blue Origin joy rides for the filthy rich and Katy Perry’s upcoming tour dates.  There’s no benefit for women with this nonsense.  Just because some brainless celebrities say they are  empowering women, you don’t have to believe them.

Quote
The word rape has a specific meaning in English law.
Yes, specific meaning which can be changed.
It also allows people to dishonestly skew statistics to act like only women are victims of rape, by using that sexist legal definition rather than a more inclusive common definition.

etc, etc, etc.

Sigh.

The first big problem was you trying to blame feminist mentality for the definition of rape in English law, which predates feminist movements by centuries.

Now you are whinging that feminists aren’t trying to get that changed.  Why should they?  We already have laws against all forms of non-consensual sex, sexual assault, coercion, drugging, grooming, etc.

Feminists are righty concentrating on the very real threat of being raped or sexually assaulted that women have to be on guard for just going for a Friday night drink with their mates, a blind date, getting into a cab on their own, walking home alone down an empty street at night, etc.  And that’s just in western democracies where we have made a lot of progress (progress that sadly might be going backwards now).

You and me still have to be careful.  We might get mugged, we might have some pissed up bloke try to start a fight (and it will be a bloke), we might have a crackhead try to snatch our phones, etc.  but we do not have to worry about being jumped from behind by a randy woman, dragged into the bushes and raped (yes I know that’s just one way it can happen).

It’s just willful ignorance to pretend that the threat of sexual violence by women on men is even remotely close to what women have to watch out for.

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magellanclavichord

  • 1034
  • +7/-10
  • Cheerful Globularist
Re: Katy Perry in space
« Reply #58 on: May 04, 2025, 08:49:23 AM »
... They are not demanding fair and equal treatment, they want special treatment. ...

No doubt there are individuals who do. There is a range of views and opinions in any group or movement. But that is not what feminism is, and it's not what the feminist movement as a whole is demanding.

Since the beginning of history women have been treated as property or as second-class citizens. Even today they have fewer opportunities and are paid less for doing the same work to the same standards. Some men recognize this and support their demands to be treated fairly. Other men, jealous of their own special privilege as men, or angry that their own wives or girlfriends won't bow down to them, rebel and resist, making the false claim that there is no discrimination and that therefore there is no need for change.

And defining a multibillionaire's blatant publicity stunt as "feminism" is just an absurd attempt to disparage what feminism actually is.

*

JackBlack

  • 24272
  • +16/-40
Re: Katy Perry in space
« Reply #59 on: May 04, 2025, 03:21:43 PM »
These are not two unrelated things.
So you entirely fail to understand how definitions work?
They are 2 definitions for a particular concept.
It is not saying both must apply.

So once again you scrub the equality part and there’s no mention of trying to elevate women above men.
The equality part wasn't there. You trying to force it in when it didn't exist, is your problem.
The point is not that it specifically says to elevate women above men, it is that it doesn't preclude it.
And as shown by examples, that is what they are doing.

No, it’s actions to promote Jeff Bezos’ Blue Origin joy rides for the filthy rich and Katy Perry’s upcoming tour dates. There’s no benefit for women with this nonsense.
Well as Katy Perry is a woman, it would seem like there is at least a benefit for one woman.
But if you want to go down this path, you could do the same for so much other BS from feminism.

The first big problem was you trying to blame feminist mentality for the definition of rape in English law, which predates feminist movements by centuries.
Yet again, you distort the facts.
The question is where are the feminists trying to get equality rather than superiority?

And this isn't some ancient law we are talking about. This is the sexual offences act 2003.
i.e. it was a bill passed in 2003.

And it isn't like the law can't be updated.
e.g. back in the Sexual Offences Act 1956, it was specifically for a man to rape a woman, with no elaboration, and included a provision for it to still be rape if a man tricks a woman into thinking he is her husband.
It was then expanded in 1994 to include the rape of men by men, expanding it to include both vaginal and anal intercourse.
It was then updated in 2003 to include oral sex, and remove the part about a woman being tricked into thinking he was her husband.

So no problems expanding the definition, as long as they keep it so there can only ever be male perpetrators.

So why not go that step further and make it gender neutral, so both men and women can be legally recognised as having committed rape.

Why should they?
Equality.
You know that very thing you were saying they are trying to do?
Or do you want the idea of equality that was quite common in the US of "different but equal", where it is fine for a school for only white people as long as black people also got a school.

And in part to stop the very mentality you are displaying.

It’s just willful ignorance to pretend that the threat of sexual violence by women on men is even remotely close to what women have to watch out for.
No, it is wilful ignorance, built upon the very thing I am calling out, to pretend that women are so much more the victim of rape.
e.g. look at this report, and the key claims they want to present from it:
https://web.archive.org/web/20140604235001/https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/pdf/nisvs_report2010-a.pdf

e.g. right at the top of Key Findings, they want to report 1 in 5 women and 1 in 71 men have been "raped".
You need to go further down to see that 1 in 21 men were "made to penetrate".

And if you go to table 2.1 and 2.2, you can see that 1.1% of women were "raped", and 1.1% of men were "made to penetrate" in the 12 months leading up to the survey.
We also see a total of 5.6% vs 5.3% for sexual violence (assuming all women who reported being "raped" also experienced some other form.

So it is nothing like this massively 1 sided thing you want to present it as.

So no, it is not wilful ignorance on my part.


No doubt there are individuals who do. There is a range of views and opinions in any group or movement. But that is not what feminism is, and it's not what the feminist movement as a whole is demanding.
So you are just saying the vast majority of so called feminists do not represent the feminist movement or follow what feminism is about?

I have provided clear examples.
The most clear-cut is the issue of infant genital mutilation.
Where feminism opposes doing this to women.
That makes it clear it is not about equality.

Even today they have fewer opportunities and are paid less for doing the same work to the same standards.
I fail to see this anywhere in the west.
In fact, I find the exact opposite.
There are plenty of opportunities which are literally just for women. Where men are excluded from applying. All in the name of "equality".
Likewise, I can't find actual cases of an actual wage gap. Instead there are normally other factors which influence it, such as working overtime and the particular jobs.

Some men recognize
And some sane people recognise that there is discrimination the other way and will speak out against it instead of dismissing it. Even when people like you will dismissing them as being a bigot when they do.

Just look at how you have responded.
Doing whatever you can to just brush it away.
Ignoring clear examples I provide, and trying to label me as a bigot.

And defining a multibillionaire's blatant publicity stunt as "feminism" is just an absurd attempt to disparage what feminism actually is.
No, it isn't.
It is calling out what it is.
It was a feminist stunt to have an all female crew.
I see no reason to not label it as feminism, compared to all the crap feminism has produced.