James's theory on dinosaurs

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EnglshGentleman

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Re: James's theory on dinosaurs
« Reply #990 on: November 14, 2010, 04:55:05 PM »
I type in ""Terminal species" evolution" and " "Terminal species"biology" and the most I got was references to amino acids.

It seems Clocktower completely made something up. For shame!

Re: James's theory on dinosaurs
« Reply #991 on: November 14, 2010, 05:33:11 PM »
I type in ""Terminal species" evolution" and " "Terminal species"biology" and the most I got was references to amino acids.

It seems Clocktower completely made something up. For shame!
Reference: http://www.mobot.org/plantscience/resbot/Repr/Add/Knox1998BJLS.pdf p. 6.
Keep it serious, Thork. You can troll, but don't be so open. We have standards

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markjo

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Re: James's theory on dinosaurs
« Reply #992 on: November 14, 2010, 06:28:41 PM »
markjo, I'm sorry, but fail.  That link has nothing to do with evolution.

Are you suggesting that genetics, and the associated chemical reactions, have nothing to do with evolution?  ???
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
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It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: James's theory on dinosaurs
« Reply #993 on: November 14, 2010, 07:26:20 PM »
markjo, I'm sorry, but fail.  That link has nothing to do with evolution.

Are you suggesting that genetics, and the associated chemical reactions, have nothing to do with evolution?  ???

Why do I not get any results when I search for the word "genetics?"
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

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markjo

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Re: James's theory on dinosaurs
« Reply #994 on: November 14, 2010, 07:41:48 PM »
markjo, I'm sorry, but fail.  That link has nothing to do with evolution.

Are you suggesting that genetics, and the associated chemical reactions, have nothing to do with evolution?  ???

Why do I not get any results when I search for the word "genetics?"

That isn't what I asked you.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: James's theory on dinosaurs
« Reply #995 on: November 14, 2010, 07:59:18 PM »
markjo, look:

Quote
All organisms evolve.
False. There are terminal species in many places in Evolution, for example.

Clocktower was clearly stating that there are organisms that don't evolve referred to as "terminal species".  This link discusses no such thing.  So even if this article is about genetics and its associated chemical reactions (I'll be the first to admit that I'm no biologist, and the language is frankly giving me a headache), it's irrelevant.
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

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Raist

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Re: James's theory on dinosaurs
« Reply #996 on: November 14, 2010, 10:07:30 PM »
So... you can't enlighten me on the issue clocktower?

If you can't understand your own statements, how can I?

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EnglshGentleman

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Re: James's theory on dinosaurs
« Reply #997 on: November 14, 2010, 10:09:42 PM »
I'm pretty sure he has stopped responding because he has realized how wrong he was.

ANOTHER VICTORY FOR ENGLSHGENTLEMAN/ROUNDY/PARSEC!!!!

Re: James's theory on dinosaurs
« Reply #998 on: November 14, 2010, 10:50:41 PM »
omg, you are stupid :)

Re: James's theory on dinosaurs
« Reply #999 on: November 15, 2010, 06:29:06 AM »
So... you can't enlighten me on the issue clocktower?

If you can't understand your own statements, how can I?
What don't you understand about the existence of terminal species? Do you doubt that they exist? Do you believe that they have evolved into a new species?

I really can't help your ignorance unless you can tell me what your difficulty is.
Keep it serious, Thork. You can troll, but don't be so open. We have standards

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Raist

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Re: James's theory on dinosaurs
« Reply #1000 on: November 15, 2010, 06:40:51 AM »
So... you can't enlighten me on the issue clocktower?

If you can't understand your own statements, how can I?
What don't you understand about the existence of terminal species? Do you doubt that they exist? Do you believe that they have evolved into a new species?

I really can't help your ignorance unless you can tell me what your difficulty is.

Whoah whoah whoah. We were talking about evolution, not speciation.

Please explain what you mean by terminal species though.

Re: James's theory on dinosaurs
« Reply #1001 on: November 15, 2010, 06:44:51 AM »
So... you can't enlighten me on the issue clocktower?

If you can't understand your own statements, how can I?
What don't you understand about the existence of terminal species? Do you doubt that they exist? Do you believe that they have evolved into a new species?

I really can't help your ignorance unless you can tell me what your difficulty is.

Whoah whoah whoah. We were talking about evolution, not speciation.

Please explain what you mean by terminal species though.
Tell me what you mean by "All organisms evolve" then. Do you mean that every individual organism evolves? I took your statement that way. Perhaps you meant "All species, given time, will evolve."?

I've already provide a link to a good explanation about terminal species. Did you have a question about it?
I type in ""Terminal species" evolution" and " "Terminal species"biology" and the most I got was references to amino acids.

It seems Clocktower completely made something up. For shame!
Reference: http://www.mobot.org/plantscience/resbot/Repr/Add/Knox1998BJLS.pdf p. 6.
Keep it serious, Thork. You can troll, but don't be so open. We have standards

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Raist

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Re: James's theory on dinosaurs
« Reply #1002 on: November 15, 2010, 01:56:58 PM »
So... you can't enlighten me on the issue clocktower?

If you can't understand your own statements, how can I?
What don't you understand about the existence of terminal species? Do you doubt that they exist? Do you believe that they have evolved into a new species?

I really can't help your ignorance unless you can tell me what your difficulty is.

Whoah whoah whoah. We were talking about evolution, not speciation.

Please explain what you mean by terminal species though.
Tell me what you mean by "All organisms evolve" then. Do you mean that every individual organism evolves? I took your statement that way. Perhaps you meant "All species, given time, will evolve."?

I've already provide a link to a good explanation about terminal species. Did you have a question about it?
I type in ""Terminal species" evolution" and " "Terminal species"biology" and the most I got was references to amino acids.

It seems Clocktower completely made something up. For shame!
Reference: http://www.mobot.org/plantscience/resbot/Repr/Add/Knox1998BJLS.pdf p. 6.

I'm not asking for a link, I'm asking for a definition. Your link had no meaningful context for the word.

Also, don't be silly, a single organism can't evolve. How exactly does one pass on traits to themselves?

I meant that all species given time will have a change in genotype providing with at minimum a slightly changed phenotype.

Re: James's theory on dinosaurs
« Reply #1003 on: November 15, 2010, 02:03:03 PM »
So... you can't enlighten me on the issue clocktower?

If you can't understand your own statements, how can I?
What don't you understand about the existence of terminal species? Do you doubt that they exist? Do you believe that they have evolved into a new species?

I really can't help your ignorance unless you can tell me what your difficulty is.

Whoah whoah whoah. We were talking about evolution, not speciation.

Please explain what you mean by terminal species though.
Tell me what you mean by "All organisms evolve" then. Do you mean that every individual organism evolves? I took your statement that way. Perhaps you meant "All species, given time, will evolve."?

I've already provide a link to a good explanation about terminal species. Did you have a question about it?
I type in ""Terminal species" evolution" and " "Terminal species"biology" and the most I got was references to amino acids.

It seems Clocktower completely made something up. For shame!
Reference: http://www.mobot.org/plantscience/resbot/Repr/Add/Knox1998BJLS.pdf p. 6.

I'm not asking for a link, I'm asking for a definition. Your link had no meaningful context for the word.

Also, don't be silly, a single organism can't evolve. How exactly does one pass on traits to themselves?

I meant that all species given time will have a change in genotype providing with at minimum a slightly changed phenotype.
So you're changing your statement. Thanks for admitting that you were wrong. I wonder why you took so long to correct your statement.

Here's the definition from the link (maybe your browser is broken?):
An extant (i.e. terminal) species may be regarded as a time-extended historical individual, but I see no need to call a terminal species monophyletic by convention. An ancestral (i.e. non-terminal) species is obviously non-monophyletic, but little is gained from calling it monophyletic by convention.
Keep it serious, Thork. You can troll, but don't be so open. We have standards

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sillyrob

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Re: James's theory on dinosaurs
« Reply #1004 on: November 16, 2010, 04:21:06 AM »
Clocktower, I don't think I agree with you on this one. I do agree that if conditions never change that a species would never have to evolve, but how often does that happen? In an example, if a desert remained a desert for hundreds of millions of years, the species living within the desert wouldn't need to change. Now, if the Earth's environment changed, and that desert suddenly got 50 inches of rain a year, those cactus and other various living organisms had better change quickly or face extinction. A cactus with that much rain would have so many problems. One of them being the fact that cactus like the Saguaro have roots that extend much farthe under the Earth than other plants, absorbing as much water as possible. Another would be the thorns, which not only act as a defense mechanism but they don't release water as much as a leaf would. So the cactus, which is used to about 5 inches of rain a year is now getting 10 times that. It would have to adapt or face extinction. If the cactus did in fact go extinct, now you have a slew of animals that have evolved to rely on the cactus for home and food. Once again, adapt or face extinction. So I don't believe there is a species "perfect enough" to not be part of evolution, nor will there ever be. Everything evolves.

Re: James's theory on dinosaurs
« Reply #1005 on: November 16, 2010, 04:26:41 AM »
Clocktower, I don't think I agree with you on this one. I do agree that if conditions never change that a species would never have to evolve, but how often does that happen? In an example, if a desert remained a desert for hundreds of millions of years, the species living within the desert wouldn't need to change. Now, if the Earth's environment changed, and that desert suddenly got 50 inches of rain a year, those cactus and other various living organisms had better change quickly or face extinction. A cactus with that much rain would have so many problems. One of them being the fact that cactus like the Saguaro have roots that extend much farthe under the Earth than other plants, absorbing as much water as possible. Another would be the thorns, which not only act as a defense mechanism but they don't release water as much as a leaf would. So the cactus, which is used to about 5 inches of rain a year is now getting 10 times that. It would have to adapt or face extinction. If the cactus did in fact go extinct, now you have a slew of animals that have evolved to rely on the cactus for home and food. Once again, adapt or face extinction. So I don't believe there is a species "perfect enough" to not be part of evolution, nor will there ever be. Everything evolves.
I appreciate your position, but extant species certainly exist, though they are much smaller in number than non-terminal ones. There are 'dead-ends', species that died off before they evolved. There are persistent, still living species that haven't evolved in thousands of years.

However, I offer that all this is now moot. Raist has recanted his claim that "All organisms evolve.".
Keep it serious, Thork. You can troll, but don't be so open. We have standards

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sillyrob

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Re: James's theory on dinosaurs
« Reply #1006 on: November 16, 2010, 04:36:17 AM »
Correct, but thousands of years isn't exactly enough time for a species to evolve unless needed. I mean, humans who live in higher elevations are born with a higher number of red blood cells than those living in lower ones, but humans haven't exactly evolved a lot over the last few thousand years. Also, why would a species evolve if they don't need to at the time? A crocodile living in a hot, humid, swampy area that has been that way for thousands of years doesn't need to evolve anymore until their habitat changes drastically.

Re: James's theory on dinosaurs
« Reply #1007 on: November 16, 2010, 04:44:10 AM »
Correct, but thousands of years isn't exactly enough time for a species to evolve unless needed. I mean, humans who live in higher elevations are born with a higher number of red blood cells than those living in lower ones, but humans haven't exactly evolved a lot over the last few thousand years. Also, why would a species evolve if they don't need to at the time? A crocodile living in a hot, humid, swampy area that has been that way for thousands of years doesn't need to evolve anymore until their habitat changes drastically.
And Raist's post did not require that a species survive for that long, and thus was wrong. That's my point.
Keep it serious, Thork. You can troll, but don't be so open. We have standards

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Raist

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Re: James's theory on dinosaurs
« Reply #1008 on: November 16, 2010, 08:17:32 AM »
So... you can't enlighten me on the issue clocktower?

If you can't understand your own statements, how can I?
What don't you understand about the existence of terminal species? Do you doubt that they exist? Do you believe that they have evolved into a new species?

I really can't help your ignorance unless you can tell me what your difficulty is.

Whoah whoah whoah. We were talking about evolution, not speciation.

Please explain what you mean by terminal species though.
Tell me what you mean by "All organisms evolve" then. Do you mean that every individual organism evolves? I took your statement that way. Perhaps you meant "All species, given time, will evolve."?

I've already provide a link to a good explanation about terminal species. Did you have a question about it?
I type in ""Terminal species" evolution" and " "Terminal species"biology" and the most I got was references to amino acids.

It seems Clocktower completely made something up. For shame!
Reference: http://www.mobot.org/plantscience/resbot/Repr/Add/Knox1998BJLS.pdf p. 6.

I'm not asking for a link, I'm asking for a definition. Your link had no meaningful context for the word.

Also, don't be silly, a single organism can't evolve. How exactly does one pass on traits to themselves?

I meant that all species given time will have a change in genotype providing with at minimum a slightly changed phenotype.
So you're changing your statement. Thanks for admitting that you were wrong. I wonder why you took so long to correct your statement.

Here's the definition from the link (maybe your browser is broken?):
An extant (i.e. terminal) species may be regarded as a time-extended historical individual, but I see no need to call a terminal species monophyletic by convention. An ancestral (i.e. non-terminal) species is obviously non-monophyletic, but little is gained from calling it monophyletic by convention.

So you were wrong? Got it.

And no, I wasn't wrong, I didn't say a single organism evolves, I said all of them do.

There's a large difference.

Re: James's theory on dinosaurs
« Reply #1009 on: November 16, 2010, 08:24:16 AM »
So you were wrong? Got it.

And no, I wasn't wrong, I didn't say a single organism evolves, I said all of them do.

There's a large difference.
1) Where was I wrong?
2) Do tell us about this large difference. If all organisms (Let's number them 1 to 10^20) evolve, which single organism doesn't (Please provide a number not in the set of all organisms.)? Thanks.
Keep it serious, Thork. You can troll, but don't be so open. We have standards

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EnglshGentleman

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Re: James's theory on dinosaurs
« Reply #1010 on: November 16, 2010, 09:05:42 AM »
Clocktower, I don't think I agree with you on this one. I do agree that if conditions never change that a species would never have to evolve, but how often does that happen? In an example, if a desert remained a desert for hundreds of millions of years, the species living within the desert wouldn't need to change. Now, if the Earth's environment changed, and that desert suddenly got 50 inches of rain a year, those cactus and other various living organisms had better change quickly or face extinction. A cactus with that much rain would have so many problems. One of them being the fact that cactus like the Saguaro have roots that extend much farthe under the Earth than other plants, absorbing as much water as possible. Another would be the thorns, which not only act as a defense mechanism but they don't release water as much as a leaf would. So the cactus, which is used to about 5 inches of rain a year is now getting 10 times that. It would have to adapt or face extinction. If the cactus did in fact go extinct, now you have a slew of animals that have evolved to rely on the cactus for home and food. Once again, adapt or face extinction. So I don't believe there is a species "perfect enough" to not be part of evolution, nor will there ever be. Everything evolves.

Being from the Southwest, I can tell you what happens to Cacti when they get seriously excess water.

1. They swell up like balloons and eventually topple over because their root systems can't support them, thus crashing through you front wall of your house into your living room. (Happened to a neighbor)
2. They swell up like balloons and rupture. (Not as cool looking as it would sound)

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James

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Re: James's theory on dinosaurs
« Reply #1011 on: November 16, 2010, 09:32:31 AM »
We could move the cacti to higher ground. That way, they would be safe from the water.
"For your own sake, as well as for that of our beloved country, be bold and firm against error and evil of every kind." - David Wardlaw Scott, Terra Firma 1901

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Crustinator

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Re: James's theory on dinosaurs
« Reply #1012 on: November 16, 2010, 01:41:40 PM »
We could move the cacti to higher ground. That way, they would be safe from the water.

Thanks for contributing James.

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sillyrob

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Re: James's theory on dinosaurs
« Reply #1013 on: November 16, 2010, 07:54:17 PM »
Clocktower, I don't think I agree with you on this one. I do agree that if conditions never change that a species would never have to evolve, but how often does that happen? In an example, if a desert remained a desert for hundreds of millions of years, the species living within the desert wouldn't need to change. Now, if the Earth's environment changed, and that desert suddenly got 50 inches of rain a year, those cactus and other various living organisms had better change quickly or face extinction. A cactus with that much rain would have so many problems. One of them being the fact that cactus like the Saguaro have roots that extend much farthe under the Earth than other plants, absorbing as much water as possible. Another would be the thorns, which not only act as a defense mechanism but they don't release water as much as a leaf would. So the cactus, which is used to about 5 inches of rain a year is now getting 10 times that. It would have to adapt or face extinction. If the cactus did in fact go extinct, now you have a slew of animals that have evolved to rely on the cactus for home and food. Once again, adapt or face extinction. So I don't believe there is a species "perfect enough" to not be part of evolution, nor will there ever be. Everything evolves.

Being from the Southwest, I can tell you what happens to Cacti when they get seriously excess water.

1. They swell up like balloons and eventually topple over because their root systems can't support them, thus crashing through you front wall of your house into your living room. (Happened to a neighbor)
2. They swell up like balloons and rupture. (Not as cool looking as it would sound)
LOL I live in Arizona I'm aware.

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EnglshGentleman

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Re: James's theory on dinosaurs
« Reply #1014 on: November 16, 2010, 08:18:24 PM »
Is sillyrob my alt?  ???

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sillyrob

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Re: James's theory on dinosaurs
« Reply #1015 on: November 16, 2010, 08:25:03 PM »

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Terra Plana

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Re: James's theory on dinosaurs
« Reply #1016 on: November 17, 2010, 12:01:46 AM »
This thread seems to be drifting off topic. I think there are a few issues which need to be cleared up, and some gross misunderstandings by the globularists which must be corrected.

Firstly, there is the matter of fossil evidence. Fossilization itself is an extremely rare occurrence, requiring the body to be fossilized to be reasonably rapidly buried in order to prevent animal scavengers from taking it. The fact that some softer tissues such as dinosaur skin and scales are preserved indicates that much fossilization is as a result of rapid burial and permineralisation. This is why, as mentioned earlier, fossil wood is often found in the form of whole petrified forests rather than small pieces. This is because a local natural disaster is the best way of providing the rapid burial required for fossilization. Things like flash floods, mudslides etc. would achieve this. Given that these are fairly isolated occurrences, it is entirely possible that whole species may evolve and disappear, never being preserved in the fossil record. The fossil record of the evolution of life on earth absolutely and indisputably supports this fact. Archaeopteryx, for example, is cited as a transitional species between dinosaurs and modern birds. However I guarantee you, and anyone with any understanding of genetics will back me up, that no small dinosaur like compsognathus just laid an egg and an archaeopteryx magically hatched from it. It would have been a slow process involving many species, perhaps with the dinosaurs first developing downy feathers for insulation, followed by feathers on the arms becoming longer and stiffer to allow for short glides from trees, then perhaps increasing arm strength to allow for wing flapping and increased flight distances etc. The point is we do not have fossils of these many transitional species that would be necessary. Nor do we have the transitional species between archaeopteryx and modern birds showing it’s toothed beak becoming like those of today’s birds, or anything like that. Many more examples can be listed, but the point is that not every species that every walked the earth would be preserved in the fossil record, and furthermore there is much of the earth’s surface that has not been investigated by archeologists. There could well have been a species of dinosaur perfectly suitable to a basic form of civilization, whose remains have not yet, and may never be, discovered. To expect fossilized “dinosaur boats” is ludicrous, if they did exist the odds against discovering one would be astronomical. They would have most likely been wood, which is harder to fossilize than bone since it rots more easily, not to mention that they may not have looked like a conventional boat. A fossilized raft which had broken up upon being buried could easily be mistaken for some ordinary petrified logs.

Secondly, there is the matter of dinosaur intelligence. Much talk has been made about EQs etc but the fact is this is not a completely accurate measure of intelligence. Mice would exceed human intelligence if this were true. Furthermore we know nothing about the soft tissue of the brain itself. It may have functioned differently to those in modern animals, and were perhaps more advanced than their size would indicate. The point is we can’t know for sure, so let’s not rule anything out.

Thirdly there is the general idea of “if they were so smart how come they died out lolz”. This is frankly a ridiculous sentiment, human civilization has only just reached a point where we could have a modest chance of surviving the asteroid impact which is thought to have caused their extinction. Humans 500 years ago were crossing oceans with ease and there is no way they could have stopped such a catastrophe.

Finally, and perhaps most importantly, there is the matter of how advanced this dinosaur civilization would need to be. The round earthers on this board are having a good laugh at the very thought of dinosaurs in vast armadas of 17th century style galleons, heroically conquering new lands. Hell, they may have even developed some sophisticated metallurgy, science, language, and even had their own dino-parliament and everything. It is easy to mock this view if we take the dinosaurs as being unintelligent, but as shown above this is not necessarily the case. The main point however is that with the continents in their current positions, every continent except Antarctica / the ice wall can be accessed by crossing minimal distances of ocean. Crossing the Bering Strait links the Americas with all of Europe, Asia and Africa, and it is less than 100km wide. One need only build a simple raft and paddle for a few days to cross it. We are not talking the sort of grand 15,000km cross pacific journey that takes months to complete and needs mountains of supplies. This is the sort of thing a person can do in a few days with no more supplies than can fit in a backpack. Even a dinosaur paddling on a large floating log could manage it. There is no need for massive armadas, galleons, etc. Even the scale of communication needed to cross it is minimal. To bring others across would need only a simple “follow me” signal, not some elaborate language and physics capable of calculating buoyancy. Think simple things here. This is supported by real world evidence, as terrestrial species made it to the Galapagos Islands somehow, which is a much greater distance. Another thing that must be considered is erosion - it is entirely possible that a chain of small islands or even a land bridge existed to connect Asia and North America across what is now the Bering Strait. Countless millennia of erosion by the elements could have easily destroyed it so what looks like a tough challenge for today’s animals was (almost literally) a walk in the park back in those times. Additionally, the earth was warmer in those times so the conditions in the straight would not have been nearly as harsh as they are today.

All things considered, I think it is not unlikely that dinosaurs were able to populate other continents without any continental drift necessary.
It's a proven fact, those in power are more likley to lie.

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General Disarray

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Re: James's theory on dinosaurs
« Reply #1017 on: November 17, 2010, 12:19:47 AM »
This thread seems to be drifting off topic. I think there are a few issues which need to be cleared up, and some gross misunderstandings by the globularists which must be corrected.

Firstly, there is the matter of fossil evidence. Fossilization itself is an extremely rare occurrence, requiring the body to be fossilized to be reasonably rapidly buried in order to prevent animal scavengers from taking it. The fact that some softer tissues such as dinosaur skin and scales are preserved indicates that much fossilization is as a result of rapid burial and permineralisation. This is why, as mentioned earlier, fossil wood is often found in the form of whole petrified forests rather than small pieces. This is because a local natural disaster is the best way of providing the rapid burial required for fossilization. Things like flash floods, mudslides etc. would achieve this. Given that these are fairly isolated occurrences, it is entirely possible that whole species may evolve and disappear, never being preserved in the fossil record. The fossil record of the evolution of life on earth absolutely and indisputably supports this fact. Archaeopteryx, for example, is cited as a transitional species between dinosaurs and modern birds. However I guarantee you, and anyone with any understanding of genetics will back me up, that no small dinosaur like compsognathus just laid an egg and an archaeopteryx magically hatched from it. It would have been a slow process involving many species, perhaps with the dinosaurs first developing downy feathers for insulation, followed by feathers on the arms becoming longer and stiffer to allow for short glides from trees, then perhaps increasing arm strength to allow for wing flapping and increased flight distances etc. The point is we do not have fossils of these many transitional species that would be necessary. Nor do we have the transitional species between archaeopteryx and modern birds showing it’s toothed beak becoming like those of today’s birds, or anything like that. Many more examples can be listed, but the point is that not every species that every walked the earth would be preserved in the fossil record, and furthermore there is much of the earth’s surface that has not been investigated by archeologists. There could well have been a species of dinosaur perfectly suitable to a basic form of civilization, whose remains have not yet, and may never be, discovered. To expect fossilized “dinosaur boats” is ludicrous, if they did exist the odds against discovering one would be astronomical. They would have most likely been wood, which is harder to fossilize than bone since it rots more easily, not to mention that they may not have looked like a conventional boat. A fossilized raft which had broken up upon being buried could easily be mistaken for some ordinary petrified logs.

Secondly, there is the matter of dinosaur intelligence. Much talk has been made about EQs etc but the fact is this is not a completely accurate measure of intelligence. Mice would exceed human intelligence if this were true. Furthermore we know nothing about the soft tissue of the brain itself. It may have functioned differently to those in modern animals, and were perhaps more advanced than their size would indicate. The point is we can’t know for sure, so let’s not rule anything out.

Thirdly there is the general idea of “if they were so smart how come they died out lolz”. This is frankly a ridiculous sentiment, human civilization has only just reached a point where we could have a modest chance of surviving the asteroid impact which is thought to have caused their extinction. Humans 500 years ago were crossing oceans with ease and there is no way they could have stopped such a catastrophe.

Finally, and perhaps most importantly, there is the matter of how advanced this dinosaur civilization would need to be. The round earthers on this board are having a good laugh at the very thought of dinosaurs in vast armadas of 17th century style galleons, heroically conquering new lands. Hell, they may have even developed some sophisticated metallurgy, science, language, and even had their own dino-parliament and everything. It is easy to mock this view if we take the dinosaurs as being unintelligent, but as shown above this is not necessarily the case. The main point however is that with the continents in their current positions, every continent except Antarctica / the ice wall can be accessed by crossing minimal distances of ocean. Crossing the Bering Strait links the Americas with all of Europe, Asia and Africa, and it is less than 100km wide. One need only build a simple raft and paddle for a few days to cross it. We are not talking the sort of grand 15,000km cross pacific journey that takes months to complete and needs mountains of supplies. This is the sort of thing a person can do in a few days with no more supplies than can fit in a backpack. Even a dinosaur paddling on a large floating log could manage it. There is no need for massive armadas, galleons, etc. Even the scale of communication needed to cross it is minimal. To bring others across would need only a simple “follow me” signal, not some elaborate language and physics capable of calculating buoyancy. Think simple things here. This is supported by real world evidence, as terrestrial species made it to the Galapagos Islands somehow, which is a much greater distance. Another thing that must be considered is erosion - it is entirely possible that a chain of small islands or even a land bridge existed to connect Asia and North America across what is now the Bering Strait. Countless millennia of erosion by the elements could have easily destroyed it so what looks like a tough challenge for today’s animals was (almost literally) a walk in the park back in those times. Additionally, the earth was warmer in those times so the conditions in the straight would not have been nearly as harsh as they are today.

All things considered, I think it is not unlikely that dinosaurs were able to populate other continents without any continental drift necessary.


None of this constitutes evidence that dinosaurs were an advanced civilization which was capable of crossing the oceans and colonizing other continents. In fact, no such evidence has yet been presented here.
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Terra Plana

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  • Flat Earth Believer
Re: James's theory on dinosaurs
« Reply #1018 on: November 17, 2010, 12:43:31 AM »
None of this constitutes evidence that dinosaurs were an advanced civilization which was capable of crossing the oceans and colonizing other continents. In fact, no such evidence has yet been presented here.

I know this is not evidence in itself, the main points i was making are:

1 - They wouldn't have had to have been very advanced at all. Again, think less of a dinosaur themed Napoleonic navy and more of a herd of buffalo fording a river, albeit on a grander scale
2 - Crossing an entire ocean is not necessary, as mentioned the Bering strait is less than 100km wide and it may have containted islands or a land bridge when dinosaurs existed, which have since eroded
3 - If it did happen, finding fossil evidence is very unlikely. You can't realistically rule out this theory due to lack of evidence any more than you can rule out the entire works of Darwin and all modern theories of evolution just because there isn't a transitional fossil between another known dinosaur and archaeopteryx.

Nobody can prove it did or didn't happen. I'm just saying we can't rule it out, especially considering the massive number of unknowns we are dealing with here. I for one support the theory and commend James on his research. It makes for a very interesting read!
It's a proven fact, those in power are more likley to lie.

Re: James's theory on dinosaurs
« Reply #1019 on: November 17, 2010, 04:25:35 AM »
None of this constitutes evidence that dinosaurs were an advanced civilization which was capable of crossing the oceans and colonizing other continents. In fact, no such evidence has yet been presented here.

I know this is not evidence in itself, the main points i was making are:

1 - They wouldn't have had to have been very advanced at all. Again, think less of a dinosaur themed Napoleonic navy and more of a herd of buffalo fording a river, albeit on a grander scale
2 - Crossing an entire ocean is not necessary, as mentioned the Bering strait is less than 100km wide and it may have containted islands or a land bridge when dinosaurs existed, which have since eroded
3 - If it did happen, finding fossil evidence is very unlikely. You can't realistically rule out this theory due to lack of evidence any more than you can rule out the entire works of Darwin and all modern theories of evolution just because there isn't a transitional fossil between another known dinosaur and archaeopteryx.

Nobody can prove it did or didn't happen. I'm just saying we can't rule it out, especially considering the massive number of unknowns we are dealing with here. I for one support the theory and commend James on his research. It makes for a very interesting read!
Like the typical FEer, you forget that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
Keep it serious, Thork. You can troll, but don't be so open. We have standards