Oh dear...

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Re: Oh dear...
« Reply #60 on: July 22, 2014, 07:26:31 AM »
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You can see the fall, snip and recovery here.

What part of this video is pre-historic?
I'll dissect this video soon. Give me half an hour and I'll show you what's wrong with it all.

You've exposed your queen. You state clearly you already decided it is fake.

Re: Oh dear...
« Reply #61 on: July 22, 2014, 07:27:23 AM »
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My logic is sound.

Denying anything that you either can't understand or doesn't fit your fantasy does not qualify as logic.

Re: Oh dear...
« Reply #62 on: July 22, 2014, 07:28:07 AM »
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Give me half an hour and I'll show you what's wrong with it all.

This promise sounds about as likely as all the diagrams you've promised and have never produced.

Re: Oh dear...
« Reply #63 on: July 22, 2014, 07:29:04 AM »
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I just want you to put the video up of his 800 mph fall and spin. That's all I need to see. Do you have the footage or not?

The video was posted at the very beginning of this thread. Are you capable of clicking over to page 1 or not?

Re: Oh dear...
« Reply #64 on: July 22, 2014, 07:44:06 AM »
Oh Scepti, forever ignoring anything you don't like the sound of while endlessly repeating the same nonsensical rebuttal you come up with at the start of each thread. I imagine you would not have done well on a debating team.
It's been said roughly 6 times now that atmospheric density gradually increases as distance from the surface of the earth decreases, you've admitted that this is the case. Yet you're still acting like only 2 scenarios exist: vacuum, or atmospheric density at sea level. Not to mention "if you stuck your head out of a plane at 500mph "we all know what would happen"". Actually, we don't. More specifically, you don't. Have you tried it? For someone who is so unwilling to accept the truth of something without having attempted it yourself, you're awfully willing to use untested assumptions in your own arguments. I mean really, some of these things you come up with are so weak I feel like you must know they're utter crap, and are in fact just an unsuccessful troll. It's honestly hard to tell.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Oh dear...
« Reply #65 on: July 22, 2014, 08:04:12 AM »
Oh Scepti, forever ignoring anything you don't like the sound of while endlessly repeating the same nonsensical rebuttal you come up with at the start of each thread. I imagine you would not have done well on a debating team.
It's been said roughly 6 times now that atmospheric density gradually increases as distance from the surface of the earth decreases, you've admitted that this is the case. Yet you're still acting like only 2 scenarios exist: vacuum, or atmospheric density at sea level. Not to mention "if you stuck your head out of a plane at 500mph "we all know what would happen"". Actually, we don't. More specifically, you don't. Have you tried it? For someone who is so unwilling to accept the truth of something without having attempted it yourself, you're awfully willing to use untested assumptions in your own arguments. I mean really, some of these things you come up with are so weak I feel like you must know they're utter crap, and are in fact just an unsuccessful troll. It's honestly hard to tell.
Would you like to take me on over the Baumgartner video that was posted and see if you can answer my questions by giving logical answers?
I'll pick it apart one step at a time and leave you to answer if you're game. Fair enough? Let's see my logic against your logic.

Re: Oh dear...
« Reply #66 on: July 22, 2014, 08:06:07 AM »
Ask a logical question with scientific reasoning and I'm sure you will get logical answers.

You haven't even attempted that.

Besides, there has been lots of logical, scientific information thrown at you here and you just deny it.

Re: Oh dear...
« Reply #67 on: July 22, 2014, 08:06:56 AM »
"A spin is caused by uneven air pressure on an object. If there was enough air pressure to make him spin like we were shown in the crappy footage, there was enough air pressure to rip his body to bits...no doubt about it at that speed they said he was going at."

The amount of air pressure it takes to make him spin is very low compared to the air pressure it takes to rip him apart.
I don't understand why you think they are even close.
If air pressure is thin from a near vacuum, it's not going to put him in a spin as it's friction is not enough to spin his dense body.
If it was, it would rip him apart at the speed he was supposedly doing.

You keep repeating this and I don't understand why.

Time 1 seconds: he jumps out and feels almost zero friction.
Time 2 seconds: he falls toward the earth and feels a tiny tiny bit more friction.
Time 3 seconds: he falls toward the earth and feels a tiny tiny bit more friction.

Skipping a few seconds...

Time :15. he falls towards the earth and begins to feel just enough pressure to cause him to change attitude.

Time :25. He has enough pressure on his suit that it causes his uncontrolled roll but not enough pressure to allows his arms and legs control to stop it.

Time 1:20. He has enough pressure to allow his arms and legs control enough to maintain a proper attitude.

At no point did he feel pressure enough to overcome his suit and rip his arms and legs off.

*

sceptimatic

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Re: Oh dear...
« Reply #68 on: July 22, 2014, 08:08:15 AM »
Ask a logical question with scientific reasoning and I'm sure you will get logical answers.

You haven't even attempted that.

Besides, there has been lots of logical, scientific information thrown at you here and you just deny it.
Scientific reasoning? You mean, like, give you formulas as I question stuff?  ;D

No...I'll tell you what I'll do. I'll start with the video and I'll pose one question at a time and let's see your answers. How about that. Are you game?

*

sceptimatic

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Re: Oh dear...
« Reply #69 on: July 22, 2014, 08:09:34 AM »
"A spin is caused by uneven air pressure on an object. If there was enough air pressure to make him spin like we were shown in the crappy footage, there was enough air pressure to rip his body to bits...no doubt about it at that speed they said he was going at."

The amount of air pressure it takes to make him spin is very low compared to the air pressure it takes to rip him apart.
I don't understand why you think they are even close.
If air pressure is thin from a near vacuum, it's not going to put him in a spin as it's friction is not enough to spin his dense body.
If it was, it would rip him apart at the speed he was supposedly doing.

You keep repeating this and I don't understand why.

Time 1 seconds: he jumps out and feels almost zero friction.
Time 2 seconds: he falls toward the earth and feels a tiny tiny bit more friction.
Time 3 seconds: he falls toward the earth and feels a tiny tiny bit more friction.

Skipping a few seconds...

Time :15. he falls towards the earth and begins to feel just enough pressure to cause him to change attitude.

Time :25. He has enough pressure on his suit that it causes his uncontrolled roll but not enough pressure to allows his arms and legs control to stop it.

Time 1:20. He has enough pressure to allow his arms and legs control enough to maintain a proper attitude.

At no point did he feel pressure enough to overcome his suit and rip his arms and legs off.
Yeah, ok, if you say so. Let's see how you answer the video, eh?

Re: Oh dear...
« Reply #70 on: July 22, 2014, 08:11:16 AM »
Maybe there is a fundamental different understanding of the basics.

Sceptimatic
Do you believe there is a gradual increase in pressure as you move down from the top of the atmosphere?

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sceptimatic

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Re: Oh dear...
« Reply #71 on: July 22, 2014, 08:11:32 AM »
Forst of all, right at the very beginning, you see his round door open. Does anyone see any runners? What was it attached to?
Just a simple one to start with.
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« Last Edit: July 22, 2014, 08:16:16 AM by sceptimatic »

Re: Oh dear...
« Reply #72 on: July 22, 2014, 08:12:08 AM »
"A spin is caused by uneven air pressure on an object. If there was enough air pressure to make him spin like we were shown in the crappy footage, there was enough air pressure to rip his body to bits...no doubt about it at that speed they said he was going at."

The amount of air pressure it takes to make him spin is very low compared to the air pressure it takes to rip him apart.
I don't understand why you think they are even close.
If air pressure is thin from a near vacuum, it's not going to put him in a spin as it's friction is not enough to spin his dense body.
If it was, it would rip him apart at the speed he was supposedly doing.

You keep repeating this and I don't understand why.

Time 1 seconds: he jumps out and feels almost zero friction.
Time 2 seconds: he falls toward the earth and feels a tiny tiny bit more friction.
Time 3 seconds: he falls toward the earth and feels a tiny tiny bit more friction.

Skipping a few seconds...

Time :15. he falls towards the earth and begins to feel just enough pressure to cause him to change attitude.

Time :25. He has enough pressure on his suit that it causes his uncontrolled roll but not enough pressure to allows his arms and legs control to stop it.

Time 1:20. He has enough pressure to allow his arms and legs control enough to maintain a proper attitude.

At no point did he feel pressure enough to overcome his suit and rip his arms and legs off.
Yeah, ok, if you say so. Let's see how you answer the video, eh?

Answer what?

*

sceptimatic

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Re: Oh dear...
« Reply #73 on: July 22, 2014, 08:12:27 AM »
Maybe there is a fundamental different understanding of the basics.

Sceptimatic
Do you believe there is a gradual increase in pressure as you move down from the top of the atmosphere?
I sure do.

Re: Oh dear...
« Reply #74 on: July 22, 2014, 08:17:30 AM »
Forst of all, right at the very beginning, you see his round door open. Does anyone see any runners? What was it attached to?
Just a simple one to start with.
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I have no idea what the hatch was connected to. It looks like a pressure hatch to me. There are other examples pictured on the internet. Surely your not basing your arguments here on hinges of a door not shown on a video?

Re: Oh dear...
« Reply #75 on: July 22, 2014, 08:20:05 AM »
Maybe there is a fundamental different understanding of the basics.

Sceptimatic
Do you believe there is a gradual increase in pressure as you move down from the top of the atmosphere?
I sure do.

Do you believe the pressure ranges from almost zero at the top to something quite higher on the surface? Do you believe the pressure is a gradual change or a sudden change?

*

sceptimatic

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Re: Oh dear...
« Reply #76 on: July 22, 2014, 08:29:04 AM »
Forst of all, right at the very beginning, you see his round door open. Does anyone see any runners? What was it attached to?
Just a simple one to start with.
" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">

I have no idea what the hatch was connected to. It looks like a pressure hatch to me. There are other examples pictured on the internet. Surely your not basing your arguments here on hinges of a door not shown on a video?
No, no, I'm not basing any argument on a hatch. I am asking questions and evaluating the answers, that's all.
Ok so it could be a pressure hatch, as in, the internal pressure seals the hatch , right?
Ok, I'll accept that for now.

Next question:

At the very start 0:00 you notice his suit is not pressurised at all, despite the de-pressurisation of the capsule. How can this be?

*

sceptimatic

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Re: Oh dear...
« Reply #77 on: July 22, 2014, 08:31:04 AM »
Maybe there is a fundamental different understanding of the basics.

Sceptimatic
Do you believe there is a gradual increase in pressure as you move down from the top of the atmosphere?
I sure do.

Do you believe the pressure ranges from almost zero at the top to something quite higher on the surface? Do you believe the pressure is a gradual change or a sudden change?
A gradual change, if you were falling at say, 10 mph or so.

Re: Oh dear...
« Reply #78 on: July 22, 2014, 08:35:04 AM »
Quote
Scientific reasoning? You mean, like, give you formulas as I question stuff?  ;D

No...I'll tell you what I'll do. I'll start with the video and I'll pose one question at a time and let's see your answers. How about that. Are you game?

It's been proven in this thread and others that even when you are given a sound, rational answer to a question you will continue to deny the truth.


*

sceptimatic

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Re: Oh dear...
« Reply #79 on: July 22, 2014, 08:42:50 AM »
Quote
Scientific reasoning? You mean, like, give you formulas as I question stuff?  ;D

No...I'll tell you what I'll do. I'll start with the video and I'll pose one question at a time and let's see your answers. How about that. Are you game?

It's been proven in this thread and others that even when you are given a sound, rational answer to a question you will continue to deny the truth.
I'm not denying anything right now, I'm asking questions. What are you scared of?

Re: Oh dear...
« Reply #80 on: July 22, 2014, 08:45:30 AM »
Forst of all, right at the very beginning, you see his round door open. Does anyone see any runners? What was it attached to?
Just a simple one to start with.
" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">

I have no idea what the hatch was connected to. It looks like a pressure hatch to me. There are other examples pictured on the internet. Surely your not basing your arguments here on hinges of a door not shown on a video?
No, no, I'm not basing any argument on a hatch. I am asking questions and evaluating the answers, that's all.
Ok so it could be a pressure hatch, as in, the internal pressure seals the hatch , right?
Ok, I'll accept that for now.

Next question:

At the very start 0:00 you notice his suit is not pressurised at all, despite the de-pressurisation of the capsule. How can this be?

I don't know why you think the suit was not pressurized. It was and you can hear them reference that while going over the check list.

Is there a way that you can tell if the suit is pressurized that I cannot?

Re: Oh dear...
« Reply #81 on: July 22, 2014, 08:47:05 AM »
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A gradual change, if you were falling at say, 10 mph or so.
I don't think you're understanding exactly how great a distance 40km is. The change of air density is very gradual, and that's a very large distance. At 10mph it would take him 2 hours and 40ish minutes to reach the surface of the earth.

Re: Oh dear...
« Reply #82 on: July 22, 2014, 08:49:09 AM »
Also, I concur. The suit doesn't change in appearance throughout the video. Either it was pressurised the entire time or never pressurised. You can't really tell visually. Either way it doesn't contribute anything relevant to this discussion

Re: Oh dear...
« Reply #83 on: July 22, 2014, 09:04:26 AM »
#ws" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">Red Bull Stratos FULL POV - Multi-Angle + Mission Data

This one is great. It shows all the effects on the skydiver as he's falling into thicker atmosphere.

*

sceptimatic

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Re: Oh dear...
« Reply #84 on: July 22, 2014, 09:06:55 AM »
Forst of all, right at the very beginning, you see his round door open. Does anyone see any runners? What was it attached to?
Just a simple one to start with.
" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">

I have no idea what the hatch was connected to. It looks like a pressure hatch to me. There are other examples pictured on the internet. Surely your not basing your arguments here on hinges of a door not shown on a video?
No, no, I'm not basing any argument on a hatch. I am asking questions and evaluating the answers, that's all.
Ok so it could be a pressure hatch, as in, the internal pressure seals the hatch , right?
Ok, I'll accept that for now.

Next question:

At the very start 0:00 you notice his suit is not pressurised at all, despite the de-pressurisation of the capsule. How can this be?

I don't know why you think the suit was not pressurized. It was and you can hear them reference that while going over the check list.

Is there a way that you can tell if the suit is pressurized that I cannot?
Yeah, the creases give it away quite easily.

Let me just explain something. Remember when we talked about the helium balloon expanding the higher it got?
The reason for that is because as it sets off, the lighter helium, or expanded helium, is easily squeezed by the dense atmosphere, so it's easier to push up or squeeze up.
It's like holding wet soap and trying to grip it in the bath. The soap gets pushed up by your hand grip because your hand grip can't hold onto it.

As the balloon gets pushed up a bit further, the atmosphere pushing it, gets weaker, meaning the helium can actually expand more inside the balloon. This creates a wider area of balloon, meaning it's always going to be pushed up as long as it expands. The higher it goes into the lighter elements, the more the helium inside can expand again against that weaker force acting against it.

If the balloons elasticity is stretched to its limit, the balloon will pop. If its elasticity can hold out...the balloon could get to the stage where it hits a point where it cannot go any higher as it would become equal with the pressure outside of it, so would float for want of a term, because it cannot fall back, just like an air balloon can't fall under water. It will just float on top. Same kind of thing.

Ok, now that's out of the way...let's deal with Baumgartners suit.

In his pressurised container, his suit wouldn't need to be pressurised as his body can't expand against that pressure that is upon him inside the capsule.
As soon as that capsule is de-pressurised, his suit must be pressurised in unison as that capsule de-pressurises, or he's dead.
His suit would have to inflate to stop his body cells expanding to fit the suit. You see, the pressure in the suit would be enough to hold back his body from inflating and the suit holds the pressure, so everything is fine.

If that suit is not pressurised his body must equalise the environment it finds itself in, which naturally will be the elasticirty of that suit. Basically he would swell up to fill it but be dead before he even got close to that.

This is undeniable and you people, should know this.
The opposite would happen to a deep sea diver.
You pressurise a diving suit to cope with the water pressure tyou find yourself under. As you moe down, you up the pressure  to repel the crush.
If you de-pressurised that diving suit when at a depth, your body cells would immediately start to be compressed and squeezed up through the weakest part of that suit which would be your soft torso or your guts, which would be pushed through your head and out of any orifice you have.

These are facts.

*

sceptimatic

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Re: Oh dear...
« Reply #85 on: July 22, 2014, 09:10:30 AM »
Quote
A gradual change, if you were falling at say, 10 mph or so.
I don't think you're understanding exactly how great a distance 40km is. The change of air density is very gradual, and that's a very large distance. At 10mph it would take him 2 hours and 40ish minutes to reach the surface of the earth.
Of course the air pressure from top to bottom would be gradual. As I said. If you were falling at a slow speed and your suit was capable of change, then fine. Falling at a speed like that would be impossible for the body, because your suit would have to equalise the pressures as it falls, as in, release the air pressure inside the suit as you fall.
At that speed, itisn't going to happen as he would simply die anyway even if it was possible, which it isn't and never will be.

*

sceptimatic

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Re: Oh dear...
« Reply #86 on: July 22, 2014, 09:12:33 AM »
Also, I concur. The suit doesn't change in appearance throughout the video. Either it was pressurised the entire time or never pressurised. You can't really tell visually. Either way it doesn't contribute anything relevant to this discussion
Yes it does contribute. Are you kidding me?
Pressurisation is paramount. If his capsule is pressurised, then he isn't. If his capsule is de-pressurised, then his suit to be pressurised. I thought you people knew what you were talking about?

*

sceptimatic

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Re: Oh dear...
« Reply #87 on: July 22, 2014, 09:20:06 AM »
#ws" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">Red Bull Stratos FULL POV - Multi-Angle + Mission Data

This one is great. It shows all the effects on the skydiver as he's falling into thicker atmosphere.
It's scary to think you people actually believe this stuff. A kid can see this crap for what it is.
What's with the air sound at 128,000 feet?
What's with the same sized Earth from 128,000 feet down to about 40,000?
You people don't believe this at all. You're holding onto a sack of garbage and you know it.

Re: Oh dear...
« Reply #88 on: July 22, 2014, 09:21:42 AM »
Forst of all, right at the very beginning, you see his round door open. Does anyone see any runners? What was it attached to?
Just a simple one to start with.
" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">

I have no idea what the hatch was connected to. It looks like a pressure hatch to me. There are other examples pictured on the internet. Surely your not basing your arguments here on hinges of a door not shown on a video?
No, no, I'm not basing any argument on a hatch. I am asking questions and evaluating the answers, that's all.
Ok so it could be a pressure hatch, as in, the internal pressure seals the hatch , right?
Ok, I'll accept that for now.

Next question:

At the very start 0:00 you notice his suit is not pressurised at all, despite the de-pressurisation of the capsule. How can this be?

I don't know why you think the suit was not pressurized. It was and you can hear them reference that while going over the check list.

Is there a way that you can tell if the suit is pressurized that I cannot?
Yeah, the creases give it away quite easily.

Let me just explain something. Remember when we talked about the helium balloon expanding the higher it got?
The reason for that is because as it sets off, the lighter helium, or expanded helium, is easily squeezed by the dense atmosphere, so it's easier to push up or squeeze up.
It's like holding wet soap and trying to grip it in the bath. The soap gets pushed up by your hand grip because your hand grip can't hold onto it.

As the balloon gets pushed up a bit further, the atmosphere pushing it, gets weaker, meaning the helium can actually expand more inside the balloon. This creates a wider area of balloon, meaning it's always going to be pushed up as long as it expands. The higher it goes into the lighter elements, the more the helium inside can expand again against that weaker force acting against it.

If the balloons elasticity is stretched to its limit, the balloon will pop. If its elasticity can hold out...the balloon could get to the stage where it hits a point where it cannot go any higher as it would become equal with the pressure outside of it, so would float for want of a term, because it cannot fall back, just like an air balloon can't fall under water. It will just float on top. Same kind of thing.

Ok, now that's out of the way...let's deal with Baumgartners suit.

In his pressurised container, his suit wouldn't need to be pressurised as his body can't expand against that pressure that is upon him inside the capsule.
As soon as that capsule is de-pressurised, his suit must be pressurised in unison as that capsule de-pressurises, or he's dead.
His suit would have to inflate to stop his body cells expanding to fit the suit. You see, the pressure in the suit would be enough to hold back his body from inflating and the suit holds the pressure, so everything is fine.

If that suit is not pressurised his body must equalise the environment it finds itself in, which naturally will be the elasticirty of that suit. Basically he would swell up to fill it but be dead before he even got close to that.

This is undeniable and you people, should know this.
The opposite would happen to a deep sea diver.
You pressurise a diving suit to cope with the water pressure tyou find yourself under. As you moe down, you up the pressure  to repel the crush.
If you de-pressurised that diving suit when at a depth, your body cells would immediately start to be compressed and squeezed up through the weakest part of that suit which would be your soft torso or your guts, which would be pushed through your head and out of any orifice you have.

These are facts.

I don't think you understand how a pressure suit works. When he is on the ground his suit is the same pressure inside and out. He has to travel up to the top of his accent and back down without changing his inside pressure.

How you can tell it is or isn't pressurized seems to be a misunderstanding of what the suit is made of. Take a look at some pictures on the web and you will see where your going wrong there.

Re: Oh dear...
« Reply #89 on: July 22, 2014, 09:26:22 AM »
#ws" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">Red Bull Stratos FULL POV - Multi-Angle + Mission Data

This one is great. It shows all the effects on the skydiver as he's falling into thicker atmosphere.
It's scary to think you people actually believe this stuff. A kid can see this crap for what it is.
What's with the air sound at 128,000 feet?
What's with the same sized Earth from 128,000 feet down to about 40,000?
You people don't believe this at all. You're holding onto a sack of garbage and you know it.

Please try not to be insulting.
There is air at 128,000 feet. He was traveling through it at a high rate of speed. That makes noise.